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Unresolved mistery: What is the speed of Gravity?

 
Anonymous Coward
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06/17/2017 09:27 AM
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Re: Unresolved mistery: What is the speed of Gravity?
...


bs

what is aether? how do you know there is aether? what property aether has? where is aether?

how aether interact with gravity? is aether matter?

dude, be honest to yourself.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 59686777


The aether is the un-manifest potential which is the fundamental "fabric" of the entire universe.

(It also called by other names, like "Zero Point Energy".)

Aether is not matter. Matter is a stable condensate of static electric charge. These charges create fields, which are local perturbations of the aether.

One type of field is the magnetic field which surrounds each atom. If the magnetic fields of the atoms are aligned in a coherent fashion, they produce the effect called a "magnet".

If the magnetic fields of the atoms are not aligned in a coherent fashion, they produce the effect called "gravity". Because it is an incoherent effect, it it not concentrated like in a magnet, and is much weaker than a magnet.

Gravity and magnetism create perturbations in the aether. These are called "gravitational fields" or "magnetic fields".
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 69673740


matter and force, what else is in the universe?

what is a stable condensate of static electric charge? what is a field? aether is not matter, what is perturbating?

word salad?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 59686777



"what is a stable condensate of static electric charge?"

An atom.

"what is a field?"

A perturbation of the Aether.

"aether is not matter, what is perturbating?"

The Aether itself can be polarized, twisted, stressed, etc. These are perturbations which produce effects which are observable and thought to be particles by popular science.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 69673740


let me try some of your weed!
JC-

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06/17/2017 09:34 AM

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Re: Unresolved mistery: What is the speed of Gravity?
The speed of gravity is 13.6^14 megaFurlongs/sec.

Now that you know you can relax. smylee
Don't believe everything you see on TV or read on the internet. - Sir Isaac Newton
Anonymous Coward
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06/17/2017 09:39 AM
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Re: Unresolved mistery: What is the speed of Gravity?
....
what force has no carrier? can space carry force? what's the mechanism>
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 59686777


"what force has no carrier?"

All of the fundamental forces do not have particles to carry them.

"can space carry force?"

No, space does not have properties.

"what's the mechanism"

The mechanism is different orientations and twists of the Aether.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 69673740


BS

there is only 1 fundamental force, electrostatic force. charged particles are force carriers.

aether is not matter, how to twist it? can you twist vacuum?

some ideas of yours are correct, not this.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 59686777


You are correct that the electrostatic force is fundamental.

However, you think that particles are required to carry forces. How do you think they do this? Are these particles like little honeybees that fly around collecting forces?

Aether is not matter, but is not a vacuum. It has properties.

It is one thing that is everywhere and can not be divided. In other words, you cannot take a small piece to study it.
Anonymous Coward
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06/17/2017 09:40 AM
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Re: Unresolved mistery: What is the speed of Gravity?
....
let me try some of your weed!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 59686777


And this is an example of a troll post.
Anonymous Coward
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06/17/2017 09:45 AM
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Re: Unresolved mistery: What is the speed of Gravity?
....
let me try some of your weed!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 59686777


And this is an example of a troll post.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 69673740


dude, i am seriously hunger for your weed.

i want to understand your aether. my weed isn't good enough for that.
Anonymous Coward
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06/17/2017 09:46 AM
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Re: Unresolved mistery: What is the speed of Gravity?
too bad you can't take a little aether to test it?
Anonymous Coward
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06/17/2017 09:51 AM
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Re: Unresolved mistery: What is the speed of Gravity?
you said aether is everywhere, why can't we smoke a little bit of it?
Anonymous Coward
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06/17/2017 09:59 AM
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Re: Unresolved mistery: What is the speed of Gravity?
too bad you can't take a little aether to test it?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 59686777


It cannot be done. Not only are you stuck inside the Aether, but the Aether by definition is one piece and cannot be divided.
Anonymous Coward
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06/17/2017 11:07 AM
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Re: Unresolved mistery: What is the speed of Gravity?
science says the sun shoots out photons and solar wind/particles.

science says photons have momentum, able to push solar sail.

if true, solar wind/particles will be pushing by photons and move faster and faster away from the sun.

when solar wind reaching earth, what will happen?

how about iss and its crews?
Anonymous Coward
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06/17/2017 11:33 AM
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Re: Unresolved mistery: What is the speed of Gravity?
too bad you can't take a little aether to test it?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 59686777


It cannot be done. Not only are you stuck inside the Aether, but the Aether by definition is one piece and cannot be divided.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 69673740


is aether has mass? is aether has charge?

who told you about aether? books?

how do you know there is aether?

can you prove it?

pass the pipe?
Anonymous Coward
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06/17/2017 12:29 PM
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Re: Unresolved mistery: What is the speed of Gravity?
science says the sun shoots out photons and solar wind/particles.

science says photons have momentum, able to push solar sail.

if true, solar wind/particles will be pushing by photons and move faster and faster away from the sun.

when solar wind reaching earth, what will happen?

how about iss and its crews?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 59686777


solar wind/hot protons and electrons are flying away from the sun, their temperature is getting lower and lower.

they will attract each other and form into atoms. no more plasma/mixed charged particles.

those atoms/hydrogens hit earth atmosphere for 5 billion years, all eaten by dinosaurs?
Anonymous Coward
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06/17/2017 01:11 PM
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Re: Unresolved mistery: What is the speed of Gravity?
hydrogen is too rich, all dinosaurs died fat.

give me a nobel? obame got 1 for peace.
dogman17

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06/17/2017 01:53 PM
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Re: Unresolved mistery: What is the speed of Gravity?
Well, after 12 pages with postings (several way out off topic) I ask again (reformulated):

What is the speed of gravity in the Universe?

- Instantaneous (Newton)
- "c" (Einstein)
- Somewhere between both
- Less than that or null (gravity is a missinterpretation
of other unknown phenomena yet to be discovered.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 75089562


I will answer again:

Gravity is instantaneous because it is a property of the Aether, and the Aether is everywhere.

The speed of light "C" is actually rather slow. It is a rate of induction, not some kind of fundamental property like Einstein thought.

(If gravity were as slow as "C", the orbits would be unstable.)
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 69673740



The explanation above may be correct. But if gravity is a force, it seems to me it must be propagated. The speed of this propagation must be billions of times faster than the speed of light so as not to disturb planet orbits.
frp
Anonymous Coward
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06/17/2017 02:36 PM
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Re: Unresolved mistery: What is the speed of Gravity?
Well, after 12 pages with postings (several way out off topic) I ask again (reformulated):

What is the speed of gravity in the Universe?

- Instantaneous (Newton)
- "c" (Einstein)
- Somewhere between both
- Less than that or null (gravity is a missinterpretation
of other unknown phenomena yet to be discovered.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 75089562


I will answer again:

Gravity is instantaneous because it is a property of the Aether, and the Aether is everywhere.

The speed of light "C" is actually rather slow. It is a rate of induction, not some kind of fundamental property like Einstein thought.

(If gravity were as slow as "C", the orbits would be unstable.)
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 69673740



The explanation above may be correct. But if gravity is a force, it seems to me it must be propagated. The speed of this propagation must be billions of times faster than the speed of light so as not to disturb planet orbits.
 Quoting: dogman17


Let's talk about magnetism first, since people are mystified by gravity, due to confusion caused by Einstein.

What "attracts" the iron (for example, a nail) to the magnet? Does the magnet "pull" the nail?

No, there is a magnetic field surrounding the magnet itself. This field is a perturbation of the Aether whose effect is like a low-pressure zone.

When the nail is placed in the low-pressure zone (close to the magnet), it loses inertia, and accelerates towards the magnet.

(Inertia itself is a property of the Aether. It is the acceleration caused by the loss of inertia which you feel and interpret as the "pull" of the magnet.)

Gravity is the incoherent version of magnetism. Magnetism (as in a toy magnet) is seen when the magnetic fields of individual atoms are aligned. Gravity, a much weaker effect, is seen when they are not aligned.

Gravity is incoherent magnetism. That is all.

The field itself is not "propagated" as are ripples in a pond or shrapnel from an explosion or such things. The Aether is already everywhere, and every perturbation of it (for example, a gravitational field) is already everywhere.

It does not propagate; it is already there.
Warontv
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06/17/2017 02:52 PM
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Re: Unresolved mistery: What is the speed of Gravity?
I think you been watching too much Genius on History Channel.
Anonymous Coward
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06/17/2017 03:02 PM
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Re: Unresolved mistery: What is the speed of Gravity?
gravity is attraction force between matters/masses.

when apple falling from the tree, what is propagating?

pull a rubber band between both hands, wave 1 hand, the other hand will sense the waving force.

replace rubber band with gravity, that waving force is gravity wave.

that waving force is moving at light speed, but your hand is moving at very low speed.

if you wave your hand at green light frequency, it will produce strong green light, can be seen miles away.
Anonymous Coward
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06/17/2017 03:17 PM
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Re: Unresolved mistery: What is the speed of Gravity?
aether is an imaginary stuff, it does not exist.

field is a regen force can reach, space is a field, all fields are in space, but field is not matter, not aether.

without charges, where is field? what field?

what is propagating in space? light? em waves? what are those? what is waving?
Anonymous Coward
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06/17/2017 03:23 PM
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Re: Unresolved mistery: What is the speed of Gravity?
F*ck Einstein, Newton and associates.

Gravity is only a centripetal force exerted by bodies in movement. Gravity doesn't work between motionless objects, are there is impossible to prove I'm wrong because all is in movement along our Solar System and the Universe.

Suppose there is an invisible and elastic rope that bind us to the mass center of a heavier object. This rope, being elastic, can allow us to put satellites or spacecrafts in orbit, only after we succeded accelerating rockets upwards, but as limited as we are, we don't have strong enough motors to go straight up to the moon or farter. We have to rest at the first step (orbiting Earth at 300 miles) and start from there to scape the pull of the invisible rope and get into the outer space.

What is this imaginary rope? Well, atomic bondings within matter that keep us glued to Earth surface. If these bondings weren't, we would be expelled toward space due to centrifugal force created by Earth rotating on its center, with a 24 hours cycle.

At the moon, the "rope" is 6 times weaker than here. Moon rotates every 28 days, but Earth rotation still affect us over there. So, that's the difference.

Proof to me that an experiment has be conducted on an inertial reference frame wich is FREEZED on the space (it doesn't move). Then, if you can measure gravity over there, you win.

As this experiment is impossible to be made, I win with my simpler idea.

Only 3 forces exists: electromagnetical (macro universe) and strong and weak forces (atomic level).
Anonymous Coward
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06/17/2017 03:30 PM
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Re: Unresolved mistery: What is the speed of Gravity?
is Gravity limited to c?

black holes can pull faster than c thats why they are black.


this can only be possible if

1. Time is relative and c speeds up as you approach the black hole.
Einstein is right


Or

2. Gravity is faster than light.
Einstein is wrong.



I vote for 1 but science isn't a vote(except global warming)

How do we test?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1712129


Neither statement is correct. The speed of light is constant even near a black hole. Simple observations have shown that light bends near a massive object. Light has been observed to bend when light from a distant star passes near the Sun.

So to, light bends near a black hole only the bending is so strong that the light is unable to escape.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 75007420


hot plasma/gasses on the sun bends light path, not gravity. wake up.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 59686777


That is stupid. That assumption would mean that light would bend around any plasma source. We create plasma sources on Earth all the time with no bending of light.
Anonymous Coward
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06/17/2017 03:32 PM
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Re: Unresolved mistery: What is the speed of Gravity?
F*ck Einstein, Newton and associates.

Gravity is only a centripetal force exerted by bodies in movement. Gravity doesn't work between motionless objects, are there is impossible to prove I'm wrong because all is in movement along our Solar System and the Universe.

Suppose there is an invisible and elastic rope that bind us to the mass center of a heavier object. This rope, being elastic, can allow us to put satellites or spacecrafts in orbit, only after we succeded accelerating rockets upwards, but as limited as we are, we don't have strong enough motors to go straight up to the moon or farter. We have to rest at the first step (orbiting Earth at 300 miles) and start from there to scape the pull of the invisible rope and get into the outer space.

What is this imaginary rope? Well, atomic bondings within matter that keep us glued to Earth surface. If these bondings weren't, we would be expelled toward space due to centrifugal force created by Earth rotating on its center, with a 24 hours cycle.

At the moon, the "rope" is 6 times weaker than here. Moon rotates every 28 days, but Earth rotation still affect us over there. So, that's the difference.

Proof to me that an experiment has be conducted on an inertial reference frame wich is FREEZED on the space (it doesn't move). Then, if you can measure gravity over there, you win.

As this experiment is impossible to be made, I win with my simpler idea.

Only 3 forces exists: electromagnetical (macro universe) and strong and weak forces (atomic level).
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 75094704


How to measure gravity without worrying about motion

Cavendish experiment
Eotvos experiment
gravitometers
pendula
Anonymous Coward
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06/17/2017 03:38 PM
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Re: Unresolved mistery: What is the speed of Gravity?
That is stupid. That assumption would mean that light would bend around any plasma source. We create plasma sources on Earth all the time with no bending of light.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 71471045


Think about this. We create plasma here, at labs, using laser that heats matter at an atomic level, breaking bonds between atoms nuclei and electrons. All what we need is to heat matter at about 5000 Celsius degrees, and that's it. Plasma!

But, what is HEAT at an atomic level? long wavelengths. And what is heat at atomic level? NOTHING, because temperature can only be measured at macro levels (cm, meters, etc.).

We don't create enough plasma mass to observe and measure effects on light. Only with massive objects (Sun) the effect of plasma mass on light can be observed.
Anonymous Coward
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06/17/2017 03:47 PM
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Re: Unresolved mistery: What is the speed of Gravity?
is Gravity limited to c?

black holes can pull faster than c thats why they are black.


this can only be possible if

1. Time is relative and c speeds up as you approach the black hole.
Einstein is right


Or

2. Gravity is faster than light.
Einstein is wrong.



I vote for 1 but science isn't a vote(except global warming)

How do we test?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1712129


Neither statement is correct. The speed of light is constant even near a black hole. Simple observations have shown that light bends near a massive object. Light has been observed to bend when light from a distant star passes near the Sun.

So to, light bends near a black hole only the bending is so strong that the light is unable to escape.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 75007420


hot plasma/gasses on the sun bends light path, not gravity. wake up.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 59686777


That is stupid. That assumption would mean that light would bend around any plasma source. We create plasma sources on Earth all the time with no bending of light.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 71471045


does atmosphere bend sunlight? if atmosphere becomes super hot/plasma, does it bend sunlight?
Anonymous Coward
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06/17/2017 03:53 PM
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Re: Unresolved mistery: What is the speed of Gravity?
F*ck Einstein, Newton and associates.

Gravity is only a centripetal force exerted by bodies in movement. Gravity doesn't work between motionless objects, are there is impossible to prove I'm wrong because all is in movement along our Solar System and the Universe.

Suppose there is an invisible and elastic rope that bind us to the mass center of a heavier object. This rope, being elastic, can allow us to put satellites or spacecrafts in orbit, only after we succeded accelerating rockets upwards, but as limited as we are, we don't have strong enough motors to go straight up to the moon or farter. We have to rest at the first step (orbiting Earth at 300 miles) and start from there to scape the pull of the invisible rope and get into the outer space.

What is this imaginary rope? Well, atomic bondings within matter that keep us glued to Earth surface. If these bondings weren't, we would be expelled toward space due to centrifugal force created by Earth rotating on its center, with a 24 hours cycle.

At the moon, the "rope" is 6 times weaker than here. Moon rotates every 28 days, but Earth rotation still affect us over there. So, that's the difference.

Proof to me that an experiment has be conducted on an inertial reference frame wich is FREEZED on the space (it doesn't move). Then, if you can measure gravity over there, you win.

As this experiment is impossible to be made, I win with my simpler idea.

Only 3 forces exists: electromagnetical (macro universe) and strong and weak forces (atomic level).
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 75094704


How to measure gravity without worrying about motion

Cavendish experiment
Eotvos experiment
gravitometers
pendula
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 71471045


No, no, no! Too easy and inertial speed CAN'T be neutralized. The experiments are flawed.

Go out to deep space, stay still (you will find this is impossible, as you keep rotating around the Sun) and try to measure gravity.

More yet, get out of our galaxy and stay midways between our galaxy and Andromeda (at the mass center of this two celestial complex bodies).

Then, being there motionless, perform every experiment made over here. I believe NOTHING WILL WORK!

With our characteristica arrogance, we think that even when we are microbs at a galaxy scale, we can project our natural laws, based on flawed mathematical tools, to the entire universe?? GIVE ME A BREAK!!

Do you know about a MAJOR FLAW in all of our mathematical tools? It's very simple:

Every single transform that is used to analyze things in another domain ALWAYS have a NEGATIVE PLANE. There, do you see? Flawed for 300 years (go Fourier, Lorentz, Bessel, Laplace and 50 or more transforms).

When you do the transform or the anti-transform, a negative plane appears like with the Inverse Fourier Transform.

Only using computers to perform discrete transforms, we deliverately ELIMINATE the negative plane. The result? It bring to us non-causal results (things occur before they happen).

And CURIOUSLY, it works!! Thanks the engineers and software developers! This method is the base of SDR (Software Defined Radios) like the smartphone that you have.

But, the problem with these things is that you can't write a valid analytical equation. Only lines of code.
Anonymous Coward
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06/17/2017 05:20 PM
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Re: Unresolved mistery: What is the speed of Gravity?
what is ENERGY?

coal? fuel? oxygen? any matters?

NO. matter is not energy. matter is the carrier/source/container of energy.

a rock only has its thermal energy at rest.

if you threw it away, your hand put a force on the rock pushing it moving at a speed v, the moving rock will have 1/2mvv energy added on it. we call it kinetic energy.

if the flying rock hits a wall, that energy becomes the impact force that hits the wall, makes atoms on the wall vibrate faster/hotter, atoms thermal energy.

so, energy is nothing but vibrating force/moving force.

force is always vibrating/moving, within and between matters. matter is always moving/vibrating due to the existence of energy.

nothing is ever at rest, keep moving, changing, involving, reforming.

somehow, LIFE woke up?
Anonymous Coward
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06/17/2017 05:33 PM
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Re: Unresolved mistery: What is the speed of Gravity?
as we know so far, energy and matter are conserved, nothing can vanish, all is immortal.

how about our souls?

if we don't have a soul, what is talking?
Anonymous Coward
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06/17/2017 05:37 PM
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Re: Unresolved mistery: What is the speed of Gravity?
by now, are you believing i am your blood brother?

can i share your g/f?
Anonymous Coward
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06/17/2017 05:52 PM
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Re: Unresolved mistery: What is the speed of Gravity?
by now, are you believing i am your blood brother?

can i share your g/f?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 59686777


Do you know why you are banned by all the science forums? It is because you are a troll.
Anonymous Coward
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06/17/2017 06:18 PM
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Re: Unresolved mistery: What is the speed of Gravity?
by now, can you see e=mcc is bs?

m is mass/matter/charged particles. e is moving/vibrating force/electrostatic force.

if m moves at c speed, it carries 1/2mcc energy, for m to carry mcc energy, it has to move faster than light.
Anonymous Coward
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06/17/2017 06:22 PM
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Re: Unresolved mistery: What is the speed of Gravity?
by now, are you believing i am your blood brother?

can i share your g/f?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 59686777


Do you know why you are banned by all the science forums? It is because you are a troll.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 74946402


bsflagbsflagbsflag
Anonymous Coward
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Re: Unresolved mistery: What is the speed of Gravity?
i have wrote my most beautiful poetry in science in this thread.

thank you all!


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