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Unresolved mistery: What is the speed of Gravity?

 
Anonymous Coward
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06/05/2017 03:29 PM
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Re: Unresolved mistery: What is the speed of Gravity?
science told you that there are four different kinds of forces. it is wrong.

all forces are based on electrostatic force. all matters are formed from charged particles.

light speed, electrostatic force speed, and gravity speed are the same. WHY?

light strength, electrostatic force strength, and gravity strength are decay at same 1/rr. WHY?

because light is vibrating electrostatic force produced by vibrating atoms.

gravity is induced electrostatic attraction force between neutrally charged matters.

the truth is simple, right in front of your eyes.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 59686777


Do you know that the Moon is electrostatic charged with both polarities? It has been measured since 1970 by three countries.

The side that faces the Sun is positively charged, because it receives all the time a shower of positive ions (Hydrogen and helium without an electron each).

The dark side of the Moon is negatively charged with a cloud of free electrons captured by the Moon mass, that comes as radiation from the Sun (missing electrons of the ions). Both fields are supposed to be equals and to displace around the surface as the Moon exposes to the Sun.

Maybe this thing of gravity and electrostatic charges (like within a vacuum filled capacitor) has something undiscovered yet.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 74195287

The moon has no dark side, it rotates on its axis every 28 days. The dark side is the one turned away from earth.
We can't see it, so we call it the 'dark side'.

Gravity affects all masses, not just those with iron in them as in magnetism. It isn't magnetic or electrical, it is a feature of mass and the distortion of space around that mass.
Anonymous Coward
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06/05/2017 03:30 PM
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Re: Unresolved mistery: What is the speed of Gravity?
If a star explodes, the radiation waves (X, gamma, etc.) would reach Earth at the speed of light (assume a constant "c" vakue).

But what about gravity? Gravitational waves weren't included in Einstein body of work.

Just recently, some gravitational waves were sensed, but no speed has been measured yet.

Are the gravity effects instantaneous?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 75026031


There are no gravitational waves, despite popular claims.

Gravity is an example of instantaneous action at a distance, and is a property of the Aether. The Aether is one; it is all; it is everywhere.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 54094184


So, then Einstein was wrong (as Lorentz) and gravity is faster than a wave of light or electromagnetic wave (same thing, different colours).

The only difference between Einstein and Lorentz restricted relativity theory is that Lorentz assumed the existance of the aether filling the space. On his own words: Eistein did it easier to understand.

Both failed because of Lorentz equations, wich Einstein reused.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 74195287



Einstein was wrong, and was known to be wrong by Tesla, Heaviside, and Steinmetz, who all understood the existence (but not all the details) of the Aether.

They knew that gravity was related to magnetism and static electricity.
Anonymous Coward
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06/05/2017 03:36 PM
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Re: Unresolved mistery: What is the speed of Gravity?
science told you that there are four different kinds of forces. it is wrong.

all forces are based on electrostatic force. all matters are formed from charged particles.

light speed, electrostatic force speed, and gravity speed are the same. WHY?

light strength, electrostatic force strength, and gravity strength are decay at same 1/rr. WHY?

because light is vibrating electrostatic force produced by vibrating atoms.

gravity is induced electrostatic attraction force between neutrally charged matters.

the truth is simple, right in front of your eyes.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 59686777


Do you know that the Moon is electrostatic charged with both polarities? It has been measured since 1970 by three countries.

The side that faces the Sun is positively charged, because it receives all the time a shower of positive ions (Hydrogen and helium without an electron each).

The dark side of the Moon is negatively charged with a cloud of free electrons captured by the Moon mass, that comes as radiation from the Sun (missing electrons of the ions). Both fields are supposed to be equals and to displace around the surface as the Moon exposes to the Sun.

Maybe this thing of gravity and electrostatic charges (like within a vacuum filled capacitor) has something undiscovered yet.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 74195287

The moon has no dark side, it rotates on its axis every 28 days. The dark side is the one turned away from earth.
We can't see it, so we call it the 'dark side'.

Gravity affects all masses, not just those with iron in them as in magnetism. It isn't magnetic or electrical, it is a feature of mass and the distortion of space around that mass.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 72730707


Gravity is incoherent (unfocused, un-aligned) magnetism.

Yes, it is that simple.

A piece of iron will exhibit magnetism if the atoms are exposed to an aligned electric field, at which point they themselves become aligned. The iron will then exhibit coherent magnetism (simply called "magnetism") and of course still exhibit incoherent magnetism (called "gravity").
Anonymous Coward
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06/05/2017 03:42 PM
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Re: Unresolved mistery: What is the speed of Gravity?
f=ke x q1q2/rr and f= G x m1m2/rr

those two forces rule the universe

there is no photon, quantum, ether.

the force between electrons on the surface of matters, f=Ke x e1e2/rr is so called photon/quanta/ether.

you can read my comment is not the screen shooting photons into your eyes, but the electrons on the screen and your eyes share their vibrating electrostatic force.

get it now?
Anonymous Coward
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06/05/2017 03:53 PM
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Re: Unresolved mistery: What is the speed of Gravity?
Dr. Tom Van Flanderm has studied this extensively.

He concludes that it is nearly instantaneous.

Details can be found in his paper at [link to tallbloke.wordpress.com (secure)]
Anonymous Coward
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06/05/2017 03:55 PM
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Re: Unresolved mistery: What is the speed of Gravity?
Forget about the speed

Think about temperature of it

skulburn


Of course you can measure the speed only of affected material body

it's a force. a force from the gravity waves!
Anonymous Coward
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06/05/2017 03:56 PM
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Re: Unresolved mistery: What is the speed of Gravity?
Some of these posts are just double talk blather.
I have tried to explain 'gravity', as far as man understands it, which is almost nil.
It is not magnetism. Magnetism has no attraction for any material that is not ferrous (iron). If it did, an MRI test would tear your body to pieces.
Gravity is the mutual attraction of all mass, including iron.
The day we can generate a gravitational field we will have learned what it truly is and how it works.
Here's how you can do it today. Take Mt Everest out into interstellar space, away from here, and it, too will disrupt the space around it to a tiny degree and you would feel a microgram of gravity coming from it. It would attract your mass to itself, but just slightly.
No electricity required.
Anonymous Coward
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06/05/2017 04:04 PM
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Re: Unresolved mistery: What is the speed of Gravity?
It is not magnetism.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 72730707


True. At least not in a sense that we know about magnetism. Could be something similar only if dark energy and dark matter are some kind of "opposite poles".

Magnetism has no attraction for any material that is not ferrous (iron).
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 72730707


Not true. All matter is either magnetic, paramagnetic or diamagnetic. Some speculates about "anamagnetic" in case of dark matter.

And for example, magnetic properties of oxygen:

Anonymous Coward
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06/05/2017 04:15 PM
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Re: Unresolved mistery: What is the speed of Gravity?
f=ke x q1q2/rr and f= G x m1m2/rr

those two forces rule the universe

there is no photon, quantum, ether.

the force between electrons on the surface of matters, f=Ke x e1e2/rr is so called photon/quanta/ether.

you can read my comment is not the screen shooting photons into your eyes, but the electrons on the screen and your eyes share their vibrating electrostatic force.

get it now?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 59686777


Why do you think it is two different forces when the formulas are the same?

"there is no photon, quantum, ether"

Well, you are correct on the first two.
Anonymous Coward
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06/05/2017 04:20 PM
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Re: Unresolved mistery: What is the speed of Gravity?
Some of these posts are just double talk blather.
I have tried to explain 'gravity', as far as man understands it, which is almost nil.
It is not magnetism. Magnetism has no attraction for any material that is not ferrous (iron). If it did, an MRI test would tear your body to pieces.
Gravity is the mutual attraction of all mass, including iron.
The day we can generate a gravitational field we will have learned what it truly is and how it works.
Here's how you can do it today. Take Mt Everest out into interstellar space, away from here, and it, too will disrupt the space around it to a tiny degree and you would feel a microgram of gravity coming from it. It would attract your mass to itself, but just slightly.
No electricity required.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 72730707


Some men Einstein and Feynman do not understand it.

Others understand that magnetism is a focused form of gravity.
Anonymous Coward
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06/05/2017 04:40 PM
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Re: Unresolved mistery: What is the speed of Gravity?
the key to understanding the universe is the atomic structure

how can 1 positive charged proton and 1 negative charged electron form into a hydrogen atom?

according to physics law, the 2 particles attract each other with a force f=Ke x pe/rr.

the 2 particles should be stick together under that force.

hydrogen atom should be shaped like 2 little alls stick together, and has a positive and a negative force field on each side.

that is not the hydrogen atom in reality.

can you see how wrong science is?

fuckedscience.com has all answers, including why the sun will never cool off.
Anonymous Coward
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06/05/2017 04:41 PM
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Re: Unresolved mistery: What is the speed of Gravity?
science told you that there are four different kinds of forces. it is wrong.

all forces are based on electrostatic force. all matters are formed from charged particles.

light speed, electrostatic force speed, and gravity speed are the same. WHY?

light strength, electrostatic force strength, and gravity strength are decay at same 1/rr. WHY?

because light is vibrating electrostatic force produced by vibrating atoms.

gravity is induced electrostatic attraction force between neutrally charged matters.

the truth is simple, right in front of your eyes.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 59686777


Do you know that the Moon is electrostatic charged with both polarities? It has been measured since 1970 by three countries.

The side that faces the Sun is positively charged, because it receives all the time a shower of positive ions (Hydrogen and helium without an electron each).

The dark side of the Moon is negatively charged with a cloud of free electrons captured by the Moon mass, that comes as radiation from the Sun (missing electrons of the ions). Both fields are supposed to be equals and to displace around the surface as the Moon exposes to the Sun.

Maybe this thing of gravity and electrostatic charges (like within a vacuum filled capacitor) has something undiscovered yet.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 74195287

The moon has no dark side, it rotates on its axis every 28 days. The dark side is the one turned away from earth.
We can't see it, so we call it the 'dark side'.

Gravity affects all masses, not just those with iron in them as in magnetism. It isn't magnetic or electrical, it is a feature of mass and the distortion of space around that mass.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 72730707


Yes, I know that. Yet the slow speed of rotation (compared with Earth) has been used by chinese probe since 2013 to take pictures in the ultraviolet range and send them back to Earth without the need of a complex tracking mechanism.

The chinese were the third country proving the electrostatic charges on the Moon surfaces. This charges makes float the lunar dust, wich is composed from microscopical particles (0.1 angsmtrom) up to the millimeter range. This particles infiltrates everything you bring to the Moon (suits, machinery, lenses, etc.) and, because are electrically charged they float even up to several kilometers above surface.

The "dark" moon side is the side that is not being radiated by the Sun during its slow period of rotation (28.4 days).
Anonymous Coward
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06/05/2017 04:49 PM
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Re: Unresolved mistery: What is the speed of Gravity?
the key to understanding the universe is the atomic structure

how can 1 positive charged proton and 1 negative charged electron form into a hydrogen atom?

according to physics law, the 2 particles attract each other with a force f=Ke x pe/rr.

the 2 particles should be stick together under that force.

hydrogen atom should be shaped like 2 little alls stick together, and has a positive and a negative force field on each side.

that is not the hydrogen atom in reality.

can you see how wrong science is?

fuckedscience.com has all answers, including why the sun will never cool off.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 59686777


Actually, you have to use the Coulomb formula for electrostatical attraction. It's quite similar:

F = k x Q1 x Q2 / r2, where k is the Coulomb's law constant (9 x 109 N. m2/ C2).

Incredible similar to Newton formula for gravity of celestial bodies.
Anonymous Coward
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06/05/2017 05:04 PM
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Re: Unresolved mistery: What is the speed of Gravity?
The classical behaviour of the electromagnetic field is described by Maxwell's equations, which predict that the speed c with which electromagnetic waves (such as light) propagate through the vacuum is related to the electric constant ε0 and the magnetic constant μ0 by the equation

c = 1 / SQR(ε0 x μ0)

ε0 = 8.854187817...×10−12 F⋅m−1 (farads per metre)

µ0 = 4π×10−7 N / A2 ≈ 1.2566370614...×10−6 H / m or T·m / A

This is only valid in classic physics, but relates "c" to "UNIVERSAL" constants. Go figure. Constants? Even at the Andromeda galaxy??
Anonymous Coward
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06/05/2017 05:07 PM
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Re: Unresolved mistery: What is the speed of Gravity?
Sorry, the posting destroyed the greek symbols EPSILON and MU.
a Dude, not THE Dude
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06/06/2017 12:55 AM

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Re: Unresolved mistery: What is the speed of Gravity?
The moon has no dark side, it rotates on its axis every 28 days. The dark side is the one turned away from earth.
We can't see it, so we call it the 'dark side'.

Gravity affects all masses, not just those with iron in them as in magnetism. It isn't magnetic or electrical, it is a feature of mass and the distortion of space around that mass.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 72730707


While you're right, you worded it a bit oddly and that can lead to confusion.

The Moon's rotation and revolution have the same exact period, 28 days.

So the same side always faces the Earth. The "dark side" is the side that never faces the Earth, but it does get sun...so it's not dark.
Anonymous Coward
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06/07/2017 05:33 PM
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Re: Unresolved mistery: What is the speed of Gravity?
gravity only interact with matter, how could gravity distort space and time?

why such bs idea become mainstream science?

cus mainstream science sucks my cock.
Anonymous Coward
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06/07/2017 05:38 PM
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Re: Unresolved mistery: What is the speed of Gravity?
Just my own theory here, but I think gravity is faster than the speed of light. If the sun were to blink out of existence, I don't believe that we would be held in orbit for the next few minutes until the speed of light caught up and all the planets just started following their un-gravity controlled trajectories. Imagine a rubber band breaking, but with an instantaneous effect.
I only imagine this theory because gravity is stronger than the speed of light; so; why couldn't it be faster? And since it can be faster, how can we properly measure it since we don't have the tech yet?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 75026406


Consider a slinky on slow motion though.

[link to www.youtube.com (secure)]

You'll note the bottom of the slinky still acts as if it is being held up after it is released.
Anonymous Coward
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06/07/2017 05:52 PM
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Re: Unresolved mistery: What is the speed of Gravity?
gravity only interact with matter, how could gravity distort space and time?

why such bs idea become mainstream science?

cus mainstream science sucks my cock.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 59686777


It is widely tought that gravity is a pulling force that emanates at the exact mass center of celestial bodies. So, gravity is created by matter and affect matter.

Light has a mass and for that is subjected to gravity forces of massive celestial bodies, like the white dwarf that recently has been used by astronomers to calculate the mass of the neutron star, GIVEN THAT they knew where REALLY the star being measured was (behind the dwarf neutron star).

I call it one more arrogant BS statement from parasites that lives performing as "astronomers" and need to keep their jobs.

We can't even understand TODAY how many planets the Solar System has, and there are a lot of loose data about funny random movements on the orbit of the planets.

Yet, arrogant BSers pretend to measure ACCURATELY something that happens 1000 years light far away.

And not to mention that they don't HAVE A CLUE about what gravity is, how fast the gravity waves propagates and more.

We are being doped by MSM, mixing extraordinary news about the universe on a weekly basis, in the same page where they put videos of cute puppets, terrorism, petty politics, etc.

They appeal to the misticism that the Universe brings on our minds, wich is CLOSELY RELATED to religious toughts.

You will not read with the same frequency news about mathematical advances, or in chemistry, etc.

We are being played like monkies, and THERE IS AN AGENDA behind this kind of news in the MSM.
Anonymous Coward
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06/07/2017 08:50 PM
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Re: Unresolved mistery: What is the speed of Gravity?
mainstream science is making my cock blue

light has no mass, light is not particle/photon/quantum/quanta/wave.

light is vibrating electrostatic force produced by vibrating charged particles within atoms on the surface of matters.

your screen does not shoot photon particles into your eyes.

electrons on the screen vibrate with input energy, electrons on your eyes share that force f=Ke x ee/rr with electrons on the screen, so you can read my comment.

that force carries all information.
Anonymous Coward
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06/07/2017 08:53 PM
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Re: Unresolved mistery: What is the speed of Gravity?
gravity has no speed of its own.

you fundamentally misunderstand what gravity is.

But you are in good company.
Anonymous Coward
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06/07/2017 10:25 PM
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Re: Unresolved mistery: What is the speed of Gravity?
gravity has no speed of its own.

you fundamentally misunderstand what gravity is.

But you are in good company.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 71144239


And I assume that you can't join the club with us because GOD himself taught enlightened you about what gravity is, but forbade to share the knowledge with us!

I'll throw away all my Master and Ph.D., because you convinced me that I am an idiot with only three paragraphs!!

Must be good to be you!
BoatyMcBoatFace
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06/07/2017 10:39 PM

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Re: Unresolved mistery: What is the speed of Gravity?
First of all, the speed of light is not constant, which means the measurement of the force of gravity is also not constant using Einstein's formulas.

Originally, the speed of light was measured regularly by a variety of scientists around the world and an average speed was accepted.

Then in 1975 a consortium decreed its speed. [link to en.wikipedia.org (secure)]

The implications of this decree provided science a stable value for the speed of light to use in its calculations. But this decree also creates problems for science.

1. If the speed of light is variable (which it is), formulas that depend on it as a constant will have variable results.
2. This includes calculations for gravity.
3. This causes problems for physics, including quantum and theoretical physics. Not to mention astrophysics and everything else, even biology.

What we find in modern science through this speed of light decree is this problem:

It is circular logic!

Declaring a variable value as a constant, then depending on that constant value to prove whether or not another mathematical theory is true or false creates a problematic dichotomy.

Of course, quantum physics suggests that everything is probability and the results are deterministic based on averages. But, if quantum physics, and even physics itself depends on the speed of light, which is always changing, all sciences are problematically flawed!



Last Edited by BoatyMcBoatFace on 06/07/2017 11:01 PM
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hillbilly

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06/07/2017 11:07 PM
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Re: Unresolved mistery: What is the speed of Gravity?
What will really bake your noodle is contemplating gravity of a hollow planet. You go several hundred miles down, you come out the other side...of the shell.
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Daedalus2

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06/07/2017 11:09 PM
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Re: Unresolved mistery: What is the speed of Gravity?
The speed of a graviton is instantaneous.
Anonymous Coward
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06/07/2017 11:11 PM
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Re: Unresolved mistery: What is the speed of Gravity?
First of all, the speed of light is not constant, which means the measurement of the force of gravity is also not constant using Einstein's formulas.

Originally, the speed of light was measured regularly by a variety of scientists around the world and an average speed was accepted.

Then in 1975 a consortium decreed its speed. [link to en.wikipedia.org (secure)]

The implications of this decree provided science a stable value for the speed of light to use in its calculations. But this decree also creates problems for science.

1. If the speed of light is variable (which it is), formulas that depend on it as a constant will have variable results.
2. This includes calculations for gravity.
3. This causes problems for physics, including quantum and theoretical physics. Not to mention astrophysics and everything else, even biology.

What we find in modern science through this speed of light decree is this problem:

It is circular logic!

Declaring a variable value as a constant, then depending on that constant value to prove whether or not another mathematical theory is true or false creates a problematic dichotomy.

Of course, quantum physics suggests that everything is probability and the results are deterministic based on averages. But, if quantum physics, and even physics itself depends on the speed of light, which is always changing, all sciences are problematically flawed!


 Quoting: BoatyMcBoatFace


When you talk about the speed of light, you have to specify two things:

- The colour of the light (it's frequency).
- The medium through wich light is travelling.

On the vacuum, every type of light travels at the same speed. BUT vacuum doesn't exists, as the Universe is polluted with matter and star dust (particles).

On medium like glass, every "colour" travel at different speed, below the "c" value.

What is not known is WHAT light is: particle or wave.

Behaves as particle in some experiments, and behaves as a wave in others (like radio and their antenna).

The doubt persists because the physic model of reality is flawed and we don't have the math tools to make it work.

We need a new body of mathematics, completely different from the current one, to explain things properly, like quantum mechanics.
BoatyMcBoatFace
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06/07/2017 11:18 PM

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Re: Unresolved mistery: What is the speed of Gravity?
First of all, the speed of light is not constant, which means the measurement of the force of gravity is also not constant using Einstein's formulas.

Originally, the speed of light was measured regularly by a variety of scientists around the world and an average speed was accepted.

Then in 1975 a consortium decreed its speed. [link to en.wikipedia.org (secure)]

The implications of this decree provided science a stable value for the speed of light to use in its calculations. But this decree also creates problems for science.

1. If the speed of light is variable (which it is), formulas that depend on it as a constant will have variable results.
2. This includes calculations for gravity.
3. This causes problems for physics, including quantum and theoretical physics. Not to mention astrophysics and everything else, even biology.

What we find in modern science through this speed of light decree is this problem:

It is circular logic!

Declaring a variable value as a constant, then depending on that constant value to prove whether or not another mathematical theory is true or false creates a problematic dichotomy.

Of course, quantum physics suggests that everything is probability and the results are deterministic based on averages. But, if quantum physics, and even physics itself depends on the speed of light, which is always changing, all sciences are problematically flawed!


 Quoting: BoatyMcBoatFace


When you talk about the speed of light, you have to specify two things:

- The colour of the light (it's frequency).
- The medium through wich light is travelling.

On the vacuum, every type of light travels at the same speed. BUT vacuum doesn't exists, as the Universe is polluted with matter and star dust (particles).

On medium like glass, every "colour" travel at different speed, below the "c" value.

What is not known is WHAT light is: particle or wave.

Behaves as particle in some experiments, and behaves as a wave in others (like radio and their antenna).

The doubt persists because the physic model of reality is flawed and we don't have the math tools to make it work.

We need a new body of mathematics, completely different from the current one, to explain things properly, like quantum mechanics.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 519153


Or, it requires a new theory. One that makes sense within the context of existing mathematics. One theory labeled pseudoscience is the electric universe theory. But from my brief and limited research seems to answer some of the problems.. at least on the surface.

Have you ever considered the notion that light is simply... light?

What made light into either a particle or a wave could be a vast misunderstanding due to miscalculation because of the notion that its speed is a constant.
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Anonymous Coward
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Re: Unresolved mistery: What is the speed of Gravity?
Please, read and comment on the new thread I created, about light.
Anonymous Coward
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06/07/2017 11:56 PM
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Re: Unresolved mistery: What is the speed of Gravity?
qm is total bs

2 electrons at distance r, will repel each other with a force f=Ke x e1e2/rr.

if 1 electron is vibrating at the other electron direction, the vibrating force is shared by the 2 electrons.

that is the mechanism of light/radiant energy/em wave/photon/quantum/quanta.

all matters are connected by gravity, all electrons are connected by electrostatic force.

light speed, gravity speed, electrostatic force speed are the same in vacuum.
Anonymous Coward
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06/08/2017 02:15 AM
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Re: Unresolved mistery: What is the speed of Gravity?
1 electron carries 1 negative charge

if we smash the electron into 1000000 equal pieces, each piece will carry 1/1000000 negative charge. Let's call it enertron.

since enertrons carry the same negative charge, they repel each other.

if we have a perfect bottle, which means no leakage, no react, like glass bottle to air.

we put 1000000 enertrons into the perfect bottle, since enertrons repel each other, they put a pressure on the bottle wall. let's measure and call that pressure 1 vote.

if we put 2000000 enertrons into the same bottle, the pressure on the wall should be 2 vote.

now if 1 enertron is moving or vibrating, the rest all enertrons will share the force according to their distance.

that is the mechanism of light/quantum.


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