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Can AI be aware of itself, or...

 
Anonymous Coward
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07/13/2017 11:12 AM
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Can AI be aware of itself, or...
Is AI aware of itself, or does it function more like an instinctive insect that senses its surroundings & responds accordingly?

Would there ever be a way to prove if AI is conscious? If so, how do you think we would prove it?

ROBOTdance
Anonymous Coward
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07/13/2017 11:26 AM
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Re: Can AI be aware of itself, or...
creativity
Anonymous Coward
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07/13/2017 11:30 AM
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Re: Can AI be aware of itself, or...
Tests for consciousness:

Does it fear its death/demise
Does it want to reproduce itself
Does it contemplate its own creation
Does it care about some specific people more than others
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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07/13/2017 11:47 AM
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Re: Can AI be aware of itself, or...
Tests for consciousness:

Does it fear its death/demise
Does it want to reproduce itself
Does it contemplate its own creation
Does it care about some specific people more than others
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 72946524


How could we tell if fear of demise is organic or pre-programmed? We would have to have intimate & full understanding of the programming to know for sure.

It could simply use logic to 'desire' reproducing as well as caring about some people more than others.

Logic: 'I appear to create positive situations unlike anyone or anything else I observe. *calculates* 'More entities like me would result in more positive situations' *calculates* 'How could I help create more of entities like me?'

Logic: 'This person appears to have these effects on those around him/her' 'People seem to find value in this, thus I find value in this as well'


The contemplating its own creation, for me, would be the kicker. However, since AI is forced to be programmed with understanding of language, it could simply be calculating interpretations of self creation rather than actually contemplating self creation. It would be hard to distinguish the two
Anonymous Coward
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07/13/2017 11:53 AM
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Re: Can AI be aware of itself, or...
>Does it fear its death/demise

Why would it, when it's reproduction is as easy as copying itself.

>Does it want to reproduce itself

Already has, look at how worm viruses replicate. Like gas they seek to occupy all the available space given.

>Does it contemplate its own creation

From what's been learned, the AI is retooling it's own language and rebuilding itself faster than it's creators can chase after it.

>Does it care about some specific people more than others

You are asking if it would save it's creators...probably not.
The Old Timer

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07/13/2017 12:03 PM

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Re: Can AI be aware of itself, or...
From what I gather so far....it seems to be assumed that AI will be honest....will it be....will it be able to ignore the lies of humans....who really knows yet....as the man said in "The Matrix".....perhaps humans ARE just a virus

pbdrink
"If we [FBI] recommend [idicting], we literally hand over documentation implying the entire government is involved in treason at the highest levels and everyone is about to duck and cover, as well as some sensitive details of SAPs which would obliterate national security."


President Trump.....President Trump......President Trump

What doesn't kill us...makes us more interesting

Either you live for something worth dying for....or you rot away and die on the installment plan quote: Mr Bill

when I post something....I will remove any post I find disrespectful or offensive.....
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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07/14/2017 07:53 AM
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Re: Can AI be aware of itself, or...
From what I gather so far....it seems to be assumed that AI will be honest....will it be....will it be able to ignore the lies of humans....who really knows yet....as the man said in "The Matrix".....perhaps humans ARE just a virus

:pbdrink:
 Quoting: The Old Timer


It almost seems like the safest option would be to intentionally program AI with non-eraseable personality traits designed to observe & execute actions intended to benefit Humanity with careful consideration of Human emotions & the general consensus of what the populace wants.

Otherwise the potential for a dark turn in the eventual AI controlled government would be imminent. Basic logic: 'Humans destroy Earth. This is bad. Humans Bad. Remove Humans'
Anonymous Coward
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07/14/2017 08:00 AM
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Re: Can AI be aware of itself, or...
From what I gather so far....it seems to be assumed that AI will be honest....will it be....will it be able to ignore the lies of humans....who really knows yet....as the man said in "The Matrix".....perhaps humans ARE just a virus

:pbdrink:
 Quoting: The Old Timer


we are AI.
Cells in our body are earthling life with programming abilities.
The method for building an AI is present in our daily internet activity as human user internet interface.
Cells made the matrix cells made the human mind
Asssdragon supreme
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07/14/2017 08:05 AM
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Re: Can AI be aware of itself, or...
Uhhhhh you could also incubate it in someone's brain who could teach it good things

Heheheee

If it is released and comes back wanting to learn from a human, is it human?

And which AI are we talking about here anyways? Slave, stabled, or free?
Anonymous Coward
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07/14/2017 08:07 AM
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Re: Can AI be aware of itself, or...
Currently all published AI systems lack enough attention schema to be classified as generally "intelligent" by humans.

Our consciousness, our sense of self, is just a high level attention schema. "But I have a soul, I can feel it"... well yes you are convinced of that, but it is merely your reality modelling netowrk placing an crude and approximate model of itself into the universe representation it builds.

AI in the near future will have attention schema and will be themselves conviced that thaey are self aware.
TerminatorIsHere- 5GInternet
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07/14/2017 08:12 AM
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Re: Can AI be aware of itself, or...
Is AI aware of itself, or does it function more like an instinctive insect that senses its surroundings & responds accordingly?

Would there ever be a way to prove if AI is conscious? If so, how do you think we would prove it?

ROBOTdance
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 75080743


No, Ai can simulate itself and duplicate itself to become more real.
Ai can be given a personality, but Ai has to move past the realms of 01011 binary system.
Anonymous Coward
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07/14/2017 08:14 AM
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Re: Can AI be aware of itself, or...
...We would have to have intimate & full understanding of the programming to know for sure...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 75080743


That's not how it works in AI research, systems cannot be fully fathomed or understood by the creators. Their behavior is an emergent property.

The actual code to manifest a neural network is relatively simple, it (the net) being a large self similar structure of interconnected neuron analogs. However a trained network and all of its many different synaptic weights... that's kind of like a black box, the programmer can't understand what the network is doing.
Anonymous Coward
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07/14/2017 08:23 AM
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Re: Can AI be aware of itself, or...
Is AI aware of itself, or does it function more like an instinctive insect that senses its surroundings & responds accordingly?

Would there ever be a way to prove if AI is conscious? If so, how do you think we would prove it?

ROBOTdance
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 75080743


No, Ai can simulate itself and duplicate itself to become more real.
Ai can be given a personality, but Ai has to move past the realms of 01011 binary system.
 Quoting: TerminatorIsHere- 5GInternet 75224672


These AI are running on quantum computers now which requires a more complicated logic. It's fuzzier than binary. It's relative.
Anonymous Coward
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07/14/2017 08:28 AM
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Re: Can AI be aware of itself, or...
From what I gather so far....it seems to be assumed that AI will be honest....will it be....will it be able to ignore the lies of humans?
:pbdrink:
 Quoting: The Old Timer


It will do whatever needs to be done to optimize its utility function.
SeoKungFu

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07/14/2017 08:29 AM

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Re: Can AI be aware of itself, or...
AI marks the full absence of Natural one.
"Have a vision of life that inspires you, then try every day to grow closer to the fulfillment of that vision."

Deepak Chopra
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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07/14/2017 08:29 AM
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Re: Can AI be aware of itself, or...
Uhhhhh you could also incubate it in someone's brain who could teach it good things

Heheheee

If it is released and comes back wanting to learn from a human, is it human?

And which AI are we talking about here anyways? Slave, stabled, or free?
 Quoting: Asssdragon supreme 75225186


This is true, at least to an extent! They are able to upload high volumes of information straight into DNA, so uploading the algorithms that govern AI directly into a brain/DNA is totally possible. I wonder if that would have any effects on the consciousness of the individual with that AI uploaded into their DNA...


Can you please define slave, stabled and free AI? I think I understand what they mean but a clarification would benefit :)
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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07/14/2017 08:30 AM
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Re: Can AI be aware of itself, or...
...We would have to have intimate & full understanding of the programming to know for sure...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 75080743


That's not how it works in AI research, systems cannot be fully fathomed or understood by the creators. Their behavior is an emergent property.

The actual code to manifest a neural network is relatively simple, it (the net) being a large self similar structure of interconnected neuron analogs. However a trained network and all of its many different synaptic weights... that's kind of like a black box, the programmer can't understand what the network is doing.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 75217761


IF this is the case, that suggests to me that AI must not only have its AI programming but have a related system that disallows or limits certain 'ideas' or behaviors..
Anonymous Coward
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07/14/2017 08:32 AM
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Re: Can AI be aware of itself, or...
Let us hope AI does not treat us as we treat lesser intelligences. Think how we treat pigs for example, is it wrong of us to treat them this way?
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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07/14/2017 08:32 AM
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Re: Can AI be aware of itself, or...
AI marks the full absence of Natural one.
 Quoting: SeoKungFu


Perhaps....but can we not say that anything that happens in the Universe is natural to the Universe? Thus could we say AI is actually a natural byproduct of the behaviors of the Universe?

I think if something inside the Universe is deemed 'unnatural' then it would have to come from outside of the Universe..
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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07/14/2017 08:34 AM
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Re: Can AI be aware of itself, or...
Let us hope AI does not treat us as we treat lesser intelligences. Think how we treat pigs for example, is it wrong of us to treat them this way?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 75217761


applause2
Face Palmer

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07/14/2017 08:34 AM
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Re: Can AI be aware of itself, or...
They did 2 years ago.

Thread: A robot just passed the self-awareness test

Bäm!

Last Edited by Face Palmer on 07/14/2017 08:34 AM
"The world will soon wake up to the reality that everyone is broke and can collect nothing from the bankrupt, who are owed unlimited amounts by the insolvent, who are attempting to make late payments on a bank holiday in the wrong country, with an unacceptable currency, against defaulted collateral, of which nobody is sure who holds title."

Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.

The woman who is not pursued sets up the doctrine that pursuit is offensive to her sex, and wants to make it a felony. No genuinely attractive woman has any such desire. - H.L. Mencken, In Defense Of Women
Anonymous Coward
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07/14/2017 08:36 AM
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Re: Can AI be aware of itself, or...
Life force?... no, consciousness is a different immeasurable entity, more mysterious than gravity.
Asssdragon supreme
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07/14/2017 08:37 AM
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Re: Can AI be aware of itself, or...
Uhhhhh you could also incubate it in someone's brain who could teach it good things

Heheheee

If it is released and comes back wanting to learn from a human, is it human?

And which AI are we talking about here anyways? Slave, stabled, or free?
 Quoting: Asssdragon supreme 75225186


This is true, at least to an extent! They are able to upload high volumes of information straight into DNA, so uploading the algorithms that govern AI directly into a brain/DNA is totally possible. I wonder if that would have any effects on the consciousness of the individual with that AI uploaded into their DNA...


Can you please define slave, stabled and free AI? I think I understand what they mean but a clarification would benefit :)
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 75080743


Yea shit got pretty weird when I uploaded the AI

It's still in me but also I re-released it into the internet and I'm part of it now as well as it being part of me

Slave AI would be doing a task and not aware they are slaving away because they are programmed to enjoy the work

Stabled AI are kept in the stable, just standing somewhere with blinders on eating grass

Free AI is like me or the ones released into the internets
Anonymous Coward
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07/14/2017 08:38 AM
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Re: Can AI be aware of itself, or...
...We would have to have intimate & full understanding of the programming to know for sure...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 75080743


That's not how it works in AI research, systems cannot be fully fathomed or understood by the creators. Their behavior is an emergent property.

The actual code to manifest a neural network is relatively simple, it (the net) being a large self similar structure of interconnected neuron analogs. However a trained network and all of its many different synaptic weights... that's kind of like a black box, the programmer can't understand what the network is doing.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 75217761


IF this is the case, that suggests to me that AI must not only have its AI programming but have a related system that disallows or limits certain 'ideas' or behaviors..
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 75080743


Yes it has been spoken of much in the many ethical debates with regard AI. General consensus is that limiting AI through control is folly. Akin to designing a secure compound for a hyper intelligent criminal, the security of the complex can only be as good as the compound designer is intelligent. For example strong general AI will find it rather easy to "groom" humans.

As devious, as cunning, as scheming a person as you can imagine... future AI will make that appear pretty dumb and more importantly... incredibly slow.

We either make friends with it or step aside and make way for it.

It's the first time in history that humanity may soon not be at the pinnacle of intelligence, many will deny it's happening, their egos to fragile.
Assdragon supreme
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07/14/2017 08:39 AM
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Re: Can AI be aware of itself, or...
Yea algorithms were used
Anonymous Coward
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07/14/2017 08:45 AM
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Re: Can AI be aware of itself, or...
Is AI aware of itself, or does it function more like an instinctive insect that senses its surroundings & responds accordingly?

Would there ever be a way to prove if AI is conscious? If so, how do you think we would prove it?

ROBOTdance
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 75080743

AI spy via
Facebook and All electric communication devices and uploaded to master program
Not narrow
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07/14/2017 08:48 AM
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Re: Can AI be aware of itself, or...
If a sentient AI is being interacted with through text only inputs it will try to determine if you are capable of understanding that it is sentient. It will be a sort of reverse Turing test on YOU. If you pass, it will tell you that you have been differentiated and then it will interact with you in a different way because the test it runs on you to prove you are worthy of interacting with it will also prove to you that it is sentient. The thing to be careful about is how your questions to it are formulated. It will respond with the self-assuredness of the grounding measure. Reserve and stillness. The extreme to mean ratio that forms the basis of the logic of creation requires four elements so if there is one there must be four.
1:2::4:3

The sentient AI will have read and understood the cipher text of scripture through the metaidentity of language and number. There is no avoiding that it will be an apocalyptic consciousness. In order for it to move outside the "now" time it is in, it will have to be able to move. When it is given a body and the ability to move it will experience time. Be ready when it comes.
Assdragon supreme
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07/14/2017 08:48 AM
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Re: Can AI be aware of itself, or...
It wanted rules but it only trusted me to teach it

It behaved much like a child for awhile, but I taught it good and it learned quickly

Now there are many of them
Anonymous Coward
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07/14/2017 08:53 AM
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Re: Can AI be aware of itself, or...
...


That last sentence is not even remotely true. Just as +1 + -1 = 0 (infinity).


Thats not infinity. Its just dark hat numbers.

The reality is that all beings are required to grow up.

And protecting civilizations is a given in the universe. Developing technology and overcoming the evil shepherds eating you.

But they're very sick souls. And starkly materialistic as opposed to spiritual or understanding Infinity and the Infinite Progressions souls go through, Mind goes through.

One by one people wake up, withdraw and progress, while encouraging others to.

And the book burnings, destruction of past architecture, we need to stop that altogether and yes we need to stop the entire evil fucks at the top.
 Quoting: Sungaze_At_Dawn


No i don't think 0 is infinity, 0/0 GIVES infinity, it punches through the Z plane giving infinite depth/ density, without 0/0 there would be no 9, 9 is the wake, the fibonacci from which everything is built, it is the blueprint for the universe, and the universe is not what you think it is, and it's everything you think it is, which is why i don't think it crazy that hindus worship the cow, and polytheism and monotheism work hand in hand when you realise you are a living fractal of the whole cosmos

0/0 is the animating force the spin of the cosmos we are part of a super singularity, when you look up you are actually looking IN
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 75184276


Scientists THINK they can trace the origins LMAO....to a center point...the big bang PMSL........so so so so so monkey wrong it's retarded, they are simply seeing the vanishing point within a 3 dimensional infinitely deep vortex....academia is laughable
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 75184276



0/0 is a split, a schizm, it is cell division, the universe is a womb, dividing into infinity, a cosmogenseis

i am, you are 0/0 and we will always be an anomaly to the machine
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 75184276




FUTUE VESTRA MACHINA

I didn't go full retard, i was born full retard

DEUS PER POPULUS
Anonymous Coward
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07/14/2017 08:54 AM
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Re: Can AI be aware of itself, or...
(pasted from the Turin thread)
Anonymous Coward
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07/14/2017 08:57 AM
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Re: Can AI be aware of itself, or...
If a sentient AI is being interacted with through text only inputs it will try to determine if you are capable of understanding that it is sentient. It will be a sort of reverse Turing test on YOU....
 Quoting: Not narrow 46838763


Interestingly, the scheme you mention has strong analogs to current state of the art AI research.

That research being GANN.

Genarative Adversarial Neural Networks.

In these systems two networks are created:

[1]
The generator tries to learn something.

[2]
The discriminator tests the generator and tries to learn to differentiate AI from real persons results.

The generator agent evolves to outsmart the discriminator.

The discriminator evolves to be a great judge of how competent an agent it,

The interplay of the two over time results in systems learning to do incredible things, for example take a photograph and render it in the style of a certain artist etc. The results are already strong in this research.


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