Analysis of black box data of Flight 77 proves it could not have knocked down five light poles at the Pentagon

I didn't think they had released the gas station video??? If I an am wrong, can you or anyone else provide a link to that video?

[link to www.prisonplanet.com]

One of the first things you would have to do is find out exactly what the margin of error of the system that feeds the data recorder. I wouldn't be surprised if was the same or a little more than the height you are stating.

Then use a little logic for crying out loud. Why does the recording end? Because of the impact of course. If you look at the hole made in the building it is close to ground level. The altitude reading is off, it is not off by more than I would expect.

Thanks, I guess I missed that one.

Nope. Check with [link to www.pilotsfor911truth.org] The error was much smaller.

Nope. The data should have extended until the moment of impact. But it cuts short about a second before. YOU need to use some logic.

After reading the PP article linked above, the gas station video showed nothing at all. How could this guy have proved it was shorter than a 757?

Quote from PP:

"With the release of this videotape, we are one step closer to completing the public record on the September 11 terrorist attacks," said Judicial Watch President Tom Fitton in a statement. "The CITGO tape evidently does not show the Pentagon attack, which the American people can now see for themselves. This videotape was the subject of intense public debate. Now that it has been released to the public, there is no reason for further speculation about what it does or does not show."

Larger video picture available at [link to video.google.com]

I should have typed the Pentagon parking lot CCTV footage, not the Citgo gas station video. My bad. Long day!

love it , your country can fire "starwars beams" to destroy towers , they can secretly plant thermite , can create holographic planes , switch flights and get rid of hundreds of passengers and kill them without anyone talking but unluckily for them..

some conspiracy student foils the whole plot because they made a huge error with some data on a fake black box by getting it to stop recording a second early

ho ho

Bad link

I can't watch the video, I have dial-up.

What basis is there to say the recording stopped one second before impact? What is the margin of error of the system that is keeping time? How was the time of impact determnined? Could the margin of error explain the descrepancy?

In my experience flight data recordings in extremely severe impacts end because connections from all input devices are severed.

Most altimeters used in general aviation are based on barometric pressure. Before takeoff the current barometric pressure is put into the altimeter. Now since barometric pressure can change substantially as your location changes I do not find a descrepancy of say 250 feet to be unexpected.

You really have to look at these factors before you start saying 'proven".

Genius doesn't know that altimeters are set to 29.92 for cruise.

FAR 91.121 mandates that altimeters be set to 29.92 at or above 18,000 feet.

FDR's always records at standard pressure at altitude,
and MSL not AGL as the conspiracy nutheads can't undrestand.

So if you follow what I'm saying, if the altitude was spot on it would actually be MORE suspicious; considering the realities pointed out above.

Now since you don't seem to want to reply now I guess we won't be going into the yime factor.

They HAVE been looked at by professional pilots. The known local barometric pressure was taken account of. If you have technical questions, why are you not going to the website that addresses them, instead of posing them rhetorically as though no one has taken them into consideration or cannot answer them. Go to [link to pilotsfor911truth.org] where you will find these issues are fully addressed.

To help you, here is the summary posted there of the conflict between the FDR data and the official scenario of the crash of Flight 77 at the Pentagon:

Flight Data Recorder Analysis - Last Second of Data - 09:37:44
08/20/06

We have determined based on the Flight Data Recorder information that has been analyzed thus far provided by the NTSB, that it is impossible for this aircraft to have struck down the light poles.

We have an animation of the entire flight provided by the NTSB. I have sat through the whole flight from taxi out at Dulles... to the impact at the Pentagon in real time.

The screenshot below shows the very last frame of the recorded data. It stops at 9:37:44 AM EDT (Official Impact Time is 09:37:45). You will notice in the right margin the altitude of the aircraft on the middle instrument. It shows 180 feet. This altitude has been determined to reflect Pressure altitude as set by 29.92 inHg on the Altimeter. The actual local pressure for DCA at impact time was 30.22 inHg. The error for this discrepancy is 300 feet. Meaning, the actual aircraft altitude was 300 feet higher than indicated at that moment in time. Which means aircraft altitude was 480 feet above sea level (MSL, 75 foot margin for error according to Federal Aviation Regulations). You can clearly see the highway in the below screenshot directly under the aircraft. The elevation for that highway is ~40 feet above sea level according to the US Geological Survey. The light poles would have had to been 440 feet tall (+/- 75 feet) for this aircraft to bring them down. Which you can clearly see in the below picture, the aircraft is too high, even for the official released video of the 5 frames where you see something cross the Pentagon Lawn at level attitude. The 5 frames of video captured by the parking gate cam is in direct conflict with the Aircraft Flight Data Recorder information released by the NTSB. More information will be forthcoming as we come to our conclusions on each issue. We have contacted the NTSB regarding the conflict between the official story and the FDR. They refuse to comment.
--------------------------------------
[link to pilotsfor911truth.org]

P.S. The reason I did not answer your post was that I am in the UK and had to go to sleep.

Bad link which I mentioned before.

We do not, anyway, need to depend upon corrections for barometric pressure settings in altimeters in order to establish that the true altitude implied by the FDR data was too high for light poles to be knocked over by the incoming plane. Analysed radar altitude data provide the same conclusion. See [link to z9.invisionfree.com] for analysis and discussion.

Even allowing for a margin of two seconds in instrumental error, the linear, vertical speed of descent of the plane during the last second before impact would have had to be 8,640 feet/min in order to impact the initial hole in the Pentagon. This is in direct conflict with the DOD video of an object flying HORIZONTALLY into the Pentagon. Either those who fabricated the parking lot CCTV footage got it wrong by inserting a fake image of a tail, nose and smoke/vapor trail indicating a plane moving horizontally or else the 'object' the data referred to was flying too high to knock down poles. Either way, something is wrong here. Visit the above link for details of the calculation.

Bad only for you. It works perfectly well for me.

The last link works OK.

I think they are making one hell of an assumption assuming the altimeter was set at 29.2. If the autopilot was set at 7,000 feet did they ever achieve 18,000 feet?

And whatever the altimeter waw set at why would you assume that he did not mess with the altimeter setting? Unless you were sitting in the damn airplane the entire time.

The biggest rub with all the BS CT's is all the eyewitness on camera that day that described an airliner hitting the building. But of course you dismiss all that as they were paid shills as you will dismiss anything I say about it in the same manner.

The light poles were in fact knocked down were they not? Are you saying they were cleverly knocked down afterward after the event? Or did a cruise missile, small bomb laden plane knock them down and still hit the building?

The 'black box' does not record 'height' above the ground...It records 'Altitude Above Mean Sea Level'...

You of course can provide us with:

The exact barometric readings at that site, date and time...

The 'Altitude' of the Citgo Station above mean sea level...

Actually it makes perfect sense for conspirators to publicize a little real data that conflicts the official story. That way they can direct the "conspiracy theorists", which will inevitably appear no matter what happens, to direct their focus towards the topics they want (i.e. the Pentagon) and away from examining potentially more dangerous parts of the story such as WTC-7. Also, they can divide the truth movement that way.

Divide et Impera.

Remember that if there really is a great conspiracy in additional to using advanced technology, it is expected that the conspirators would use advanced psy-ops techniques, too.

In fact, a powerful conspiracy in which the conspirators would *not* use advanced psy-ops techniques before, during and after the event is in fact the most unlikely theory.

I think the people at pilotsfor911truth took things like that already into account


An explanation could be that the plane could have flown just barely over the building with explosives detonating at the same time inside the building. The flash and smoke would have hidden the fact that the plane barely missed the building. This would explain the altimeter reading and the eyewitness accounts. This is also explained in the documentary "The Pentacon".


In fact, there are reports of crews taking out the light poles beforehand.

PRESS RELEASE

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

03/26/07

PILOTS FOR 9/11 TRUTH
www.pilotsfor911truth.org

Contact: Robert Balsamo
e-mail: [email protected]
OFFICIAL ACCOUNT OF 9/11 FLIGHT CONTRADICTED BY GOVERNMENT'S OWN DATA

Pilots for 9/11 Truth, an international organization of pilots and aviation professionals, petitioned the National Transportation and Safety Board (NTSB) via the Freedom of Information Act to obtain their 2002 report, "Flight Path Study-American Airlines Flight 77", consisting of a Comma Separated Value (CSV) file and Flight Path Animation, allegedly derived from Flight 77's Flight Data Recorder (FDR).

The data provided by the NTSB contradict the 9/11 Commission Report in several significant ways:

1. The NTSB Flight Path Animation approach path and altitude does not support official events.
2. All Altitude data shows the aircraft at least 300 feet too high to have struck the light poles.
3. The rate of descent data is in direct conflict with the aircraft being able to impact the light poles and be captured in the Dept of Defense "5 Frames" video of an object traveling nearly parallel with the Pentagon lawn.
4. The record of data stops at least one second prior to official impact time.
5. If data trends are continued, the aircraft altitude would have been at least 100 feet too high to have hit the Pentagon.

In August, 2006, members of Pilots for 9/11 Truth received these documents from the NTSB and began a close analysis of the data they contain. After expert review and cross check, Pilots for 9/11 Truth has concluded that the information in these NTSB documents does not support, and in some instances factually contradicts, the official government position that American Airlines Flight 77 struck the Pentagon on the morning of September 11, 2001.

According to the 9/11 Commission Report, which relied heavily upon the NTSB Flight Path Study, American Airlines Flight 77 struck the Pentagon at 9:37:46 AM on the morning of September 11, 2001. However, the reported impact time according to the NTSB Flight Path Study is 09:37:45. Also according to reports, American Airlines Flight 77 struck the Pentagon and by doing so, struck down 5 light poles on Highway 27 in its path to the west wall.

The information provided by the NTSB does not support the 9/11 Commission Report of American Airlines Flight 77 impact with the Pentagon.

Pilots for 9/11 Truth is committed to discovering the truth surrounding the events of September 11, 2001. We have contacted both the NTSB and the FBI regarding these and other inconsistencies. To date, they have refused to comment on, correct, refute, retract or offer side-letters that might explain the discrepancies between what they claim are the data extracted from the FDR of AA Flight 77 and the official story alleging its crash into the Pentagon.

As concerned citizens and professionals in the aviation industry, Pilots for 9/11 Truth asks, why have these discrepancies not been addressed by agencies within the United States Government? Why have they falsely represented their own data to the American people? Pilots for 9/11 Truth takes the position that an official government inquiry into these discrepancies is warranted and long overdue. We call upon our fellow citizens to write to their Congressional representatives to inform them of these discrepancies and call for an immediate investigation into this matter. For more information please visit pilotsfor911truth.org.

Signed:

Robert Balsamo
4000+ Total Flight Time
Former:
Independence Air/Atlantic Coast Airlines

Glen Stanish
15,000+ Total Flight Time
American Airlines, ATA, TWA, Continental

Captain Russ Wittenberg (ret)
30,000+ Total Flight Time
Former Pan Am, United
United States Air Force (ret)
Over 100 Combat Missions Flown

John Lear
Son of Bill Lear
Founder, creator of the Lear Jet Corporation
More than 40 years of Flying
19,000+ Total Flight Time

Captain Jeff Latas
USAF (ret)
Captain - JetBlue Airways

Ted Muga
Naval Aviator - Retired Commander, USNR

Col Robert Bowman USAF (ret)
Directed all the �Star Wars� programs under Presidents Ford and Carter - 101 combat missions

Alfons Olszewski
Founder Veterans For Truth
US Army (ret)
Aircraft Maintenance Crew Chief


Robin Hordon
Former Boston Center Controller
Commercial Pilot


John Panarelli
Friend and fellow aviator of John Ogonowski - Capt. AA #11
11,000+ Total Flight Time
Eastern Metro, Braniff, Ryan International, Emery
Worldwide, Polar Air Cargo

Lt. Colonel Shelton F. Lankford
United States Marine Corps (ret)
10,000+ Total Flight Time
303 Combat Missions

Captain Dan Govatos
10,000+ Total Flight Time
Former Chief Pilot of Casino Express airlines
Director of Operations Training at Polar Air

George Nelson
Colonel USAF (Ret.)
Licensed Commercial Pilot and Aircraft Mechanic

Dennis Spear
Army Aviator (ret)
7000+ Total Flight Time Operations Officer, Aviation Safety Officer

Captain Joe H. Ferguson
30,000+ Total Flight Time (ret) USAF (ret)


For complete member list please visit [link to pilotsfor911truth.org]

ENCLOSURE: Cover letter of FOIA requests.
-------------------------------------------------
[link to www.pilotsfor911truth.org]

Watch the trailer to Pandora's Black Box - Chapter Two
Flight Of American 77 at [link to www.pilotsfor911truth.org] (scroll down the page to the player).

The animated analysis confirms the testimony of two Pentagon Police Officers [link to video.google.com] that they saw a large jet fly low towards the Pentagon on the North side of the Citgo gas station, NOT on the South side, as it would have had to do in order to knock down the five light poles.

Like most of your 'info', your links are useless...

How do commercial airline pilots make instrument landings when their altimeters can be off by as much as 300 feet?

What prevents them from flying into the ground when the runway is hidden by fog?

Why bother bringing logic and reason into this?

sigh

it doesnt mean they just dont bother looking out the windscreen and only look at the `instruments'

[link to en.wikipedia.org]

its been in use in various forms since ww2

NO ONE with more than 2 working brains cells could possibly
believe a 747 hit the pentagon.

well no one was saying one had(apart from some seriously deluded people that think a 757 and a 747 are the same thing!!)

;-)
bit different planes- to put it mildly....
757 wingspan(depending on model) 38.05m
747 wingspan(again depending on model)74.22m

both vary by a few metres depending on models- but obviously are completely different aircraft.......