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Best explanation against chemtrails I've read.

 
TheOneWhoKnows
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04/14/2007 05:23 PM
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Best explanation against chemtrails I've read.
"As an aerospace engineer, I know a lot about ideally-expanded, over-expanded, and under-expanded jet engine exhaust dynamics. And I don't know how many times I have tried to explain to the chemtrails conspiracy theorists the FACT that jet engines are designed to a SPECIFIC atmospheric condition for optimal performance. For some reason they think they know better than me (and yet they cannot explain their theory in mathematic terms like I can explain the natural state of jet exhaust expansion to them).

I have never (and that means never EVER) seen any quantified evidence that would demonstrate that any CONTRAIL that appears in the sky is anything more than a normally over-expanded jet exhaust operating in an atmospheric area where the water density is already high (almost saturated), and the passing of the jet engine through that atmospheric condition has caused the high water density to be condensed into visible exhaust plumes.

As part of my undergrad Aero studies I had to program a "generic jet engine" model. Some of its inputs are the atmospheric conditions in which the jet engine operates. This simple model can reliably predict and model contrails due to over-expansion of a jet engine nozzle. This is why you will never see someone with a degree in aerospace engineering endorsing the "chemtrail" conspiracy theory. We all know just how normal a CONTRAIL pattern is given the parameters which govern jet engine operation in a variable atmospheric condition.


The "highways in the skies" are actually the very REASON they appear so regular! There are specific enroute "paths in the skies" that are called Victor Airways. They are a throwback to the days before GPS when aircraft would fly "FROM" one radio navigation sensor (abbreviated VOR for Very high Omni Range) "TO" another. (note: Victor airways comes from VOR). And in terminal areas (airports) there are very specific, published approach & departure routes which all pilots (and computer navigation systems) possess and know how to fly. Air Traffic Control is NOT a random science. Finally, there are also rules for assigned altitudes for aircraft to cruise. These rules go as follows:

For aircraft traveling on magnetic headings of 000 thru 179 degrees, they will be assigned an odd numbered altitude (for example, 31,000 feet).

For aircraft traveling on magnetic headgins of 180 thru 359 degrees, they will be assigned an even numbered altitude (for example, 32,000 feet).

This ensure separation, and also allows crossing contrail patterns.

The following is another set of NASA websites which you can read at leisure and learn all about the highly-technical, highly-coordinated "dance" of air traffic control operations in the US:

[link to virtualskies.arc.nasa.gov]

RMT

PS - One reason for the "rows side by side" can be easily understood when you consider airplanes generally have two engines on their wings, or in the case of 747s 4 engines on their wings. "

The above was written by RainmanTime on the time travel institute forums.
Public schooling has been a very informative and insightful institution for me, helping my formation as a productive member of society.
SHOkNOVA

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04/14/2007 05:40 PM
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Re: Best explanation against chemtrails I've read.
That=ghay
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Like torches in the aeon flow,
Even suns flicker and die
Forgotten as the ages grow,
Eternity is not for you
Antidote

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04/14/2007 05:44 PM
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Re: Best explanation against chemtrails I've read.
LIAR
Anonymous Coward
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04/14/2007 05:47 PM
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Re: Best explanation against chemtrails I've read.
LIAR
 Quoting: Antidote

Yep, TOWK, you can do better than post an "explanation" from a NASA debunking site.
TheOneWhoKnows (OP)

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04/14/2007 05:56 PM
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Re: Best explanation against chemtrails I've read.
I don't necessarily believe chemtrails are simply contrails either. But I have been talking to this guy a while and he knows his stuff.. he lead the most compelling argument against chemtrails I have ever read.
Public schooling has been a very informative and insightful institution for me, helping my formation as a productive member of society.
hoot no more
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04/14/2007 06:07 PM
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Re: Best explanation against chemtrails I've read.
goggle [GACP Field Campaigns] if you want to know what NASA is really doing
Anonymous Coward
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04/14/2007 06:07 PM
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Re: Best explanation against chemtrails I've read.
I don't necessarily believe chemtrails are simply contrails either. But I have been talking to this guy a while and he knows his stuff.. he lead the most compelling argument against chemtrails I have ever read.
 Quoting: TheOneWhoKnows

Why don't you trust your own eyes and judgement instead of relying on others' explanations?

You think these are ordinary contrails?

[link to i27.photobucket.com]

[link to i27.photobucket.com]

[link to i27.photobucket.com]
The Rock

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04/14/2007 06:09 PM
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Re: Best explanation against chemtrails I've read.
All this idiot did was explain the formation of contrails.

Let him explain their duration of many hours or length in 100's of miles. He will not because he cannot.

Vapor/contrails cool and disapate almost instantly.

Just like with crop dusting their must be a foreign material in the trails to cause their persistance from the stratosphere lingering right down into our troposphere and literally blotting out the sky.

I've seen commercial flights nearly side by side (within a few hundred miles) one creating contrails and the other something MUCH different .

Ones trails disappearing a few miles behind the plane .... the other lingering long after the plane is hours from sight.

Don't let anyone con you. There's something going on and it's not simple contrails.
Anonymous Coward
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04/14/2007 06:11 PM
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Re: Best explanation against chemtrails I've read.
It's the grid patterns; the on/off spray; the circles, Xs And Os; the spreading mist; the interruption of previously reliable weather predictions; the weather pattern change.
Anonymous Coward
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04/14/2007 06:13 PM
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Re: Best explanation against chemtrails I've read.
Dude, there is no way now you could ever convince some of us that chemtrails are not on purpose. Early evening yesterday when the sun started to descend, the sky was clear and thye started laying x's in front of it, in a few hours you could see the sun dogs, Gee I'm really looking
forward to maybe one or two days of absolutely bbluew skies
this spring and summer, This is BS I want the truth
My friends think I'm crazy, I soo can't wait to say hahah
told ya so. I'm sick and tired of being laughed at
SHOkNOVA

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04/14/2007 10:19 PM
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Re: Best explanation against chemtrails I've read.
If only there was a way to "see" electro-magnetic resonance....
<DJ/End-user-Abuser/Psychonaut>

Like torches in the aeon flow,
Even suns flicker and die
Forgotten as the ages grow,
Eternity is not for you
Anonymous Coward
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04/14/2007 10:25 PM
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Re: Best explanation against chemtrails I've read.
I don't necessarily believe chemtrails are simply contrails either. But I have been talking to this guy a while and he knows his stuff.. he lead the most compelling argument against chemtrails I have ever read.

Why don't you trust your own eyes and judgement instead of relying on others' explanations?

You think these are ordinary contrails?

[link to i27.photobucket.com]

[link to i27.photobucket.com]

[link to i27.photobucket.com]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 220555

great pictures
Anonymous Coward
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04/14/2007 10:27 PM
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Re: Best explanation against chemtrails I've read.
I don't necessarily believe chemtrails are simply contrails either. But I have been talking to this guy a while and he knows his stuff.. he lead the most compelling argument against chemtrails I have ever read.

Why don't you trust your own eyes and judgement instead of relying on others' explanations?

You think these are ordinary contrails?

[link to i27.photobucket.com]

[link to i27.photobucket.com]

[link to i27.photobucket.com]

great pictures
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 115914

"contrails" like that turn into full sky coverage
Anonymous Coward
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04/14/2007 10:29 PM
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Re: Best explanation against chemtrails I've read.
written by RAINMANTIME?!
Anonymous Coward
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04/14/2007 10:45 PM
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Re: Best explanation against chemtrails I've read.
Highway in the sky? More like Tic-Tac-Toe in the sky. Try not to be so gulible and entertain these silly debunkers.

[link to img177.imageshack.us]

[link to img177.imageshack.us]

[link to img340.imageshack.us]
Captain Dan nli
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04/14/2007 11:42 PM
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Re: Best explanation against chemtrails I've read.
I have been flying jets for over 20 years and I agree with this guy. All of the contrails I have ever seen are normal...
Anonymous Coward
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04/15/2007 12:06 AM
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Re: Best explanation against chemtrails I've read.
I have been flying jets for over 20 years and I agree with this guy. All of the contrails I have ever seen are normal...
 Quoting: Captain Dan nli 156429


remind me never to hop on a plane you're flying.
Anonymous Coward
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04/15/2007 01:54 AM
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Re: Best explanation against chemtrails I've read.
I promise to keep this thread bumped forever.
Triple buckshot to chemtards!
Anonymous Coward
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04/15/2007 02:30 AM
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Re: Best explanation against chemtrails I've read.
I have been flying jets for over 20 years and I agree with this guy. All of the contrails I have ever seen are normal...


remind me never to hop on a plane you're flying.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 223393


Tha shouldn't be a problem. I fly corporate jets. You can't afford the ticket...
Today Is Always The Day

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04/15/2007 02:41 AM
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Re: Best explanation against chemtrails I've read.
"As an aerospace engineer, I know a lot about ideally-expanded, over-expanded, and under-expanded jet engine exhaust dynamics. And I don't know how many times I have tried to explain to the chemtrails conspiracy theorists the FACT that jet engines are designed to a SPECIFIC atmospheric condition for optimal performance. For some reason they think they know better than me (and yet they cannot explain their theory in mathematic terms like I can explain the natural state of jet exhaust expansion to them).

I have never (and that means never EVER) seen any quantified evidence that would demonstrate that any CONTRAIL that appears in the sky is anything more than a normally over-expanded jet exhaust operating in an atmospheric area where the water density is already high (almost saturated), and the passing of the jet engine through that atmospheric condition has caused the high water density to be condensed into visible exhaust plumes.

As part of my undergrad Aero studies I had to program a "generic jet engine" model. Some of its inputs are the atmospheric conditions in which the jet engine operates. This simple model can reliably predict and model contrails due to over-expansion of a jet engine nozzle. This is why you will never see someone with a degree in aerospace engineering endorsing the "chemtrail" conspiracy theory. We all know just how normal a CONTRAIL pattern is given the parameters which govern jet engine operation in a variable atmospheric condition.


The "highways in the skies" are actually the very REASON they appear so regular! There are specific enroute "paths in the skies" that are called Victor Airways. They are a throwback to the days before GPS when aircraft would fly "FROM" one radio navigation sensor (abbreviated VOR for Very high Omni Range) "TO" another. (note: Victor airways comes from VOR). And in terminal areas (airports) there are very specific, published approach & departure routes which all pilots (and computer navigation systems) possess and know how to fly. Air Traffic Control is NOT a random science. Finally, there are also rules for assigned altitudes for aircraft to cruise. These rules go as follows:

For aircraft traveling on magnetic headings of 000 thru 179 degrees, they will be assigned an odd numbered altitude (for example, 31,000 feet).

For aircraft traveling on magnetic headgins of 180 thru 359 degrees, they will be assigned an even numbered altitude (for example, 32,000 feet).

This ensure separation, and also allows crossing contrail patterns.

The following is another set of NASA websites which you can read at leisure and learn all about the highly-technical, highly-coordinated "dance" of air traffic control operations in the US:

[link to virtualskies.arc.nasa.gov]

RMT

PS - One reason for the "rows side by side" can be easily understood when you consider airplanes generally have two engines on their wings, or in the case of 747s 4 engines on their wings. "

The above was written by RainmanTime on the time travel institute forums.
 Quoting: TheOneWhoKnows

If this is the case, then why aren't there any "normal" clouds forming at the same time with so much moisture up there because usually when the sun is heating the earth, clouds form from this interaction of moisture and heat. Also, normal water vapor dissipates or moves on, but this crap lingers and spreads out until it forms a blanket, and this is not because so many planes have flown right next to each other creating a blanket. Normal cloud don't spread out like that. And one more point, how come on days when there are no lengthy miles long thick trails, there are also no large white planes in the sky?
bsflag
Whoever exalts himself shall be humbled, and whoever humbles himself shall be exalted.
Today Is Always The Day

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04/15/2007 02:42 AM
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Re: Best explanation against chemtrails I've read.
"As an aerospace engineer, I know a lot about ideally-expanded, over-expanded, and under-expanded jet engine exhaust dynamics. And I don't know how many times I have tried to explain to the chemtrails conspiracy theorists the FACT that jet engines are designed to a SPECIFIC atmospheric condition for optimal performance. For some reason they think they know better than me (and yet they cannot explain their theory in mathematic terms like I can explain the natural state of jet exhaust expansion to them).

I have never (and that means never EVER) seen any quantified evidence that would demonstrate that any CONTRAIL that appears in the sky is anything more than a normally over-expanded jet exhaust operating in an atmospheric area where the water density is already high (almost saturated), and the passing of the jet engine through that atmospheric condition has caused the high water density to be condensed into visible exhaust plumes.

As part of my undergrad Aero studies I had to program a "generic jet engine" model. Some of its inputs are the atmospheric conditions in which the jet engine operates. This simple model can reliably predict and model contrails due to over-expansion of a jet engine nozzle. This is why you will never see someone with a degree in aerospace engineering endorsing the "chemtrail" conspiracy theory. We all know just how normal a CONTRAIL pattern is given the parameters which govern jet engine operation in a variable atmospheric condition.


The "highways in the skies" are actually the very REASON they appear so regular! There are specific enroute "paths in the skies" that are called Victor Airways. They are a throwback to the days before GPS when aircraft would fly "FROM" one radio navigation sensor (abbreviated VOR for Very high Omni Range) "TO" another. (note: Victor airways comes from VOR). And in terminal areas (airports) there are very specific, published approach & departure routes which all pilots (and computer navigation systems) possess and know how to fly. Air Traffic Control is NOT a random science. Finally, there are also rules for assigned altitudes for aircraft to cruise. These rules go as follows:

For aircraft traveling on magnetic headings of 000 thru 179 degrees, they will be assigned an odd numbered altitude (for example, 31,000 feet).

For aircraft traveling on magnetic headgins of 180 thru 359 degrees, they will be assigned an even numbered altitude (for example, 32,000 feet).

This ensure separation, and also allows crossing contrail patterns.

The following is another set of NASA websites which you can read at leisure and learn all about the highly-technical, highly-coordinated "dance" of air traffic control operations in the US:

[link to virtualskies.arc.nasa.gov]

RMT

PS - One reason for the "rows side by side" can be easily understood when you consider airplanes generally have two engines on their wings, or in the case of 747s 4 engines on their wings. "

The above was written by RainmanTime on the time travel institute forums.

If this is the case, then why aren't there any "normal" clouds forming at the same time with so much moisture up there because usually when the sun is heating the earth, clouds form from this interaction of moisture and heat. Also, normal water vapor dissipates or moves on, but this crap lingers and spreads out until it forms a blanket, and this is not because so many planes have flown right next to each other creating a blanket. Normal cloud don't spread out like that. And one more point, how come on days when there are no lengthy miles long thick trails, there are also no large white planes in the sky?
bsflag
 Quoting: Today Is Always The Day

Oh, and thanks for giving us a NASA link to check out - as if they would tell us the truth!
Whoever exalts himself shall be humbled, and whoever humbles himself shall be exalted.
Today Is Always The Day

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04/15/2007 02:50 AM
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Re: Best explanation against chemtrails I've read.
I have been flying jets for over 20 years and I agree with this guy. All of the contrails I have ever seen are normal...
 Quoting: Captain Dan nli 156429

Well, I've been on this planet for nearly 50 years, and I've never saw these kinds of "Contrail" when I was younger, so what - all the sudden nature is doing something different? You're a liar to say you've seen things like this for 20 years.
Whoever exalts himself shall be humbled, and whoever humbles himself shall be exalted.
SHOkNOVA

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04/15/2007 02:53 AM
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Re: Best explanation against chemtrails I've read.
If only there was a way to "see" electro-magnetic resonance....
 Quoting: SHOkNOVA


you know, like lifting fingerprints....
<DJ/End-user-Abuser/Psychonaut>

Like torches in the aeon flow,
Even suns flicker and die
Forgotten as the ages grow,
Eternity is not for you
Anonymous Coward
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04/15/2007 02:54 AM
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Re: Best explanation against chemtrails I've read.
I have been flying jets for over 20 years and I agree with this guy. All of the contrails I have ever seen are normal...

Well, I've been on this planet for nearly 50 years, and I've never saw these kinds of "Contrail" when I was younger, so what - all the sudden nature is doing something different? You're a liar to say you've seen things like this for 20 years.
 Quoting: Today Is Always The Day


I've seen contrails for a hell of a lot longer than 20 years.

People who say "chem-trails" exist have no clue.
Anonymous Coward
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04/15/2007 03:13 AM
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Re: Best explanation against chemtrails I've read.
Any doubters need to read and look at this entire site. The evidence is hard to not notice.

[link to imageevent.com]
Anonymous Coward
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04/15/2007 02:53 PM
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Re: Best explanation against chemtrails I've read.
Any doubters need to read and look at this entire site. The evidence is hard to not notice.

[link to imageevent.com]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 205


That is a loon site.

This is a real site.

[link to asd-www.larc.nasa.gov]

With real facts.
Anonymous Coward
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04/15/2007 09:26 PM
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Re: Best explanation against chemtrails I've read.
bump
Anonymous Coward
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04/15/2007 10:04 PM
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Re: Best explanation against chemtrails I've read.
The guy is a fuckin' idiot.
It amazes me. This debunker asshole gives a little bullshit
explanation which might cover about 1% of the chem/contrails and idiots are ready to label themselves dillusional paranoids.
DuPLEX
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10/21/2008 05:56 PM
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Re: Best explanation against chemtrails I've read.
this dosnt explain days when the sky is full of chem trails and yet you can see a jet (operating in the same conditions) which leaves no trail at all) .
Anonymous Coward
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11/19/2010 09:55 AM
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Re: Best explanation against chemtrails I've read.
The only problem with this is that, although these statements are true, they do not make other statements about chem trails false. Don't you get it? This is basic logic. Because airplanes CAN and DO transport passengers from one area to another does NOT mean that they don't also transport weapons, food, armies, chemicals etc..

Read more people.... This is not a statement against chemtrails whether the author admits it or not... It is simply explaining something he knows to be true... How most trails are created. He does not and can not know all there is to know about every airplane in the sky and their intents and purposes. Think people... We are Americans... We are responsible for our own thinking.. Do NOT rely on others to think and explain for you so you are comfortable and can continue in your laziness. Know the facts, think logically, be open-minded and hear all sides before deciding. You are the judge not some guy who has more education or training than you. You are able to think for yourself! Do it NOW!
Anonymous Coward
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11/19/2010 11:05 AM
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Re: Best explanation against chemtrails I've read.
"where water density is already high"

I suppose that would sound like a very plausible explaination to me if I lived somewhere else besides Phoenix, Az- one of the dryest places on the planet. We get these things ALL the time!! If they are normal, it doesn' have anything to do with water density being high.

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