Christians! Eyewitness Testimony from those who have seen Heaven and seen Hell! The Evidence is in - Jesus is Lord!

Ok ok ok, I can see you're only slightly smirking… I'll give it a little throttle. Hold on to your sides because this one will have you rollicking.

Deuteronomy 21:10-14 NAB

"When you go out to war against your enemies and the LORD, your God, delivers them into your hand, so that you take captives, if you see a comely woman among the captives and become so enamored of her that you wish to have her as wife, you may take her home to your house. But before she may live there, she must shave her head and pare her nails and lay aside her captive's garb. After she has mourned her father and mother for a full month, you may have relations with her, and you shall be her husband and she shall be your wife. However, if later on you lose your liking for her, you shall give her her freedom, if she wishes it; but you shall not sell her or enslave her, since she was married to you under compulsion."

Heh, tough crowd… I can see I'm going have to roll out a sample of the A material…

Exodus 21:7-11 NLT

"When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment."

Praise The Holy Of Holy::Deu 21:10 When thou goest forth to war against thine enemies, and the LORD thy God hath delivered them into thine hands, and thou hast taken them captive,
Deu 21:11 And seest among the captives a beautiful woman, and hast a desire unto her, that thou wouldest have her to thy wife;
Deu 21:12 Then thou shalt bring her home to thine house; and she shall shave her head, and pare her nails;
Deu 21:13 And she shall put the raiment of her captivity from off her, and shall remain in thine house, and bewail her father and her mother a full month: and after that thou shalt go in unto her, and be her husband, and she shall be thy wife.
Deu 21:14 And it shall be, if thou have no delight in her, then thou shalt let her go whither she will; but thou shalt not sell her at all for money, thou shalt not make merchandise of her, because thou hast humbled her.
::: The king James reads a little differently , but these were rules made to keep order in a time when such things were a very serious matter!! In todays world in the next war we won't need any rules as to what to do with survivors!! Because the Godless have created ways of waging war without survivors!! I know that's not as funny but true!Praise The Lamb:: Amen

Praise the Holy Of Holy :: You have quite a sense of humor you would have loved catching rats to stay alive in the concentration camps! It would be so funny to watch twenty men chase one rat to see who would survive ! Praise the Lamb:: Amen Maybe you could make the rules so they wouldn't be so side splitting!!

hey bro, it's your book/s ...you want to quote it, and I want to help you out--think of it as win-win. People can see the vile trash for what it is.

and i seriously doubt I would've made it to camp. See i'm not exactly the cowardly type...

Praise The Holy Of Holy :: The Book was written to make us more Holy not a dry comic!! You can be the tough oust man on the planet ,when you stand before God on judgment day that's when you find out how funny the book is! Maybe you could tell God a few jokes! Best of luck, try the New Testament maybe his son will save you!{I"M NOT JOKING }! Praise The Lamb:: Amen

C'mon… you seriously cannot entertain this shit. This is what you would call Satanic, eh?

Isaiah 13:15-18 NLT

"Anyone who is captured will be run through with a sword. Their little children will be dashed to death right before their eyes. Their homes will be sacked and their wives raped by the attacking hordes. For I will stir up the Medes against Babylon, and no amount of silver or gold will buy them off. The attacking armies will shoot down the young people with arrows. They will have no mercy on helpless babies and will show no compassion for the children."

This is a prophecy of what the Medes would do against Babylon.......not a commandment of the Lord. In fact, this helps prove the Bible is true.......God said that this would happen and then it did. Check your history books.

Just so we're perfectly clear; the Old Testament was never done with, for surely Jesus told you.

Matthew 5:17 NAB "Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets. I have come not to abolish but to fulfill. Amen, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest part or the smallest part of a letter will pass from the law, until all things have taken place."

Matthew 5:18-19 RSV “For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass the law until all is accomplished. Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.”

Luke 16:17 NAB "It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid."

And heaven is still there (it's the sky) and the earth is surely still here. That must mean all the old testament stuff is still valid, yeah?

Your objections tend to fall into two categories:

#1) You object to God ordering the people of Israel to wipe out the people living in the land of Canaan before the people of Israel entered the land.

The explanation to this one is very obvious. There were Nephilim in the land:

Numbers 13:32-33

32 And they spread among the Israelites a bad report about the land they had explored. They said, "The land we explored devours those living in it. All the people we saw there are of great size. 33 We saw the Nephilim there (the descendants of Anak come from the Nephilim). We seemed like grasshoppers in our own eyes, and we looked the same to them."

Now who were the Nephilim?:

Genesis 6:3-5

4 The Nephilim were on the earth in those days—and also afterward—when the sons of God went to the daughters of men and had children by them. They were the heroes of old, men of renown.

5 The LORD saw how great man's wickedness on the earth had become, and that every inclination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil all the time.

The Nephilim were the offspring of fallen angels and humans. Satan was trying to corrupt human DNA so that the human Messiah could never come. That is why God had to send the flood to wipe these Nephilim out.

Now notice the phrase "and also afterward". After the flood, Satan tried to fill up the Holy Land with the Nephilim so that Israel could never enter it and fulfill the prophecies. So that is why the Lord ordered them to wipe the Nephilim out. In addition, the inhabitants of that land were practicing human sacrifice and all manner of evil that you probably can't even imagine.

God sent the flood and God had the Israelites wipe out those tribes infested by the Nephilim so that the Messiah could come and die on the cross for YOU.

So you should be thanking God for his mercy because if He had not acted you would have NO hope.

(To be continued).....

Why is it that you fail to see? I didn't say anything about prophecy (which by the way, the bi-bell is a script)

I am highlighting the pure viciousness of this entity, which you lot like to gloss over, constantly.

You are right here.......Jesus did not come to abolish the Law or the prophets. The Old Testament is the Word of God and there is nothing wrong with it.

And your objections are not dealing with the evidence.

Let's say God ordered us all to wear orange jumpsuits forever (of course He did not, but just say)......it doesn't matter if the rule was reasonable or unreasonable to us......what matters is if it was true.

So why don't you try dealing with the real question.

Is this all true?

I have presented tons of evidence that it is.

What have you got to present?

Praise The Holy Of Holy ::God used several methods of Judgment on his creation the most famous is the flood where only eight people on the whole planet were spared!King Saul lost favor with God when he spared things God had told him to kill! Its Gods world we either do as God wants or we do as we want and wait for Judgment! The book makes that very clear.Even the scriptures you quote sometimes he called for one way and other times another way! But the common theme of your post is you are always second guessing what God told them do!! I guess the only thing that would make you happy is if you we God! Then all executive commands would fit your thoughts!! Praise The Lamb:: Amen

no, you haven't. your tons of evidence are chinese whispers. what? you don't think people lie? you cannot prove anything, actually.

and if you believe, and you understand that the law is still valid, then why do you disobey your lord?

He told you, NO alchemy or magic, correct? What exactly do you think a computer is?

God… the all-knowing and all-powerful. But, he didn't know where Adam and Eve were in the garden.. they were hiding, eh? then they came out wearing clothes…

so how did god not know where they were? And why did he need to ask them why they had hidden there shame? (my note: the IR systems on his ship must've been on the fritz…that's my theory for why he couldn't find them)

And then why does god say "Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil; and now, he might stretch out his hand, and take also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever "

What? One of us? Hmmmm.

Quick question Christians. Who are running Hell and do the actual torturing down there? Certainly not Jesus or any of his Saint!

Of course God knew where they were in the Garden of Eden.

Haven't you ever played hide and seek with kids? You know exactly where they are hiding but you call out: "Where are you???"

God was calling attention to the fact that they were hiding. The Bible does not say that God did not know where they were.

Secondly, "one of us" could be referring to the Trinity. Every thought of that? Like when God said this:

26 Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move along the ground."

So by pointing these things out you help prove the Trinity and the continuity of the Old and New Testaments.

Good stuff!

(Continued from Earlier.....)

#2) Your second series of objections seem to indicate that you have a problem that anyone could be a "servant".

Exodus 21:7-11

7 "If a man sells his daughter as a servant, she is not to go free as menservants do. 8 If she does not please the master who has selected her for himself, he must let her be redeemed. He has no right to sell her to foreigners, because he has broken faith with her. 9 If he selects her for his son, he must grant her the rights of a daughter. 10 If he marries another woman, he must not deprive the first one of her food, clothing and marital rights. 11 If he does not provide her with these three things, she is to go free, without any payment of money.

So let's set up a scenario. In those days you are a poor Israelite, and you have no land and you have no resources to operate your own business.

So what do you do?

You work as a servant for someone else and perhaps your children do as well if they are old enough to work.

"Well that is just horrible!"

Oh really?

What about you and I?

I don't know about you, but as for me, and most of the others here at GLP, we are working as wage servants this very day.

We have sold ourselves and our labor to our employers for money.

"Well that is just horrible!"

Oh really?

It's called having a job. Not everyone has the resources to be independent. All throughout human history people with less resources have had to work for people with more resources. You will find it in pretty much every economic system around the world.

So in those days if a kid was old enough they weren't going to sit around playing video games or going to the mall.......they were either going to work for their family or for someone else.

And they couldn't go down the street and get a job at McDonalds.

Also, in the Law there were instructions for how to treat your "servants".....this was NOTHING like the slavery of the early American days.

So if you find these economic arrangements to be troubling I suggest you do some more research on them.

But in reality we are getting off track. This really has nothing to do with whether Christianity is true or not. Let's focus on the evidence and not on side issues.

I am not taking any side here yet.... But I have been doing a lot of studying lately and want to come to the truth on my own, not just listening to what some tell me I should believe.

As far as the "us" during the creation, don't these scriptures also apply?

When the stars were created, all My angels sang praises to Me" (Job 38:7)

“sons of God” rejoiced over the creation of the earth.
Job 38:7

anyway, one of the things that keeps hindering me in my search for the truth, is I cannot find one piece of evidence in the old testament pointing to a trinity or Jesus being the Son of God. Lots in the new testament, but that seems pretty easy after he lived. Even cults today, claim their leader's are God or gods.

Just thought I would throw my two cents in.

I appreciate your honest questions.

I would start by looking at these scriptures which foretell the coming Messiah:

Isaiah 53
Psalm 22
Daniel 9:24-27

Also there are many more scriptures relating to the coming Messiah that were fulfilled in Jesus right here:

[link to www.cynet.com]

In fact, in most of the Old Testament prophecies you will find the name of Jesus in the Bible Code embedded within the text of those prophecies.

In fact, that reminds me that I should write an article for GLP on that very subject.

In addition, the whole Jewish sacrificial system foreshadowed the sacrifice of Christ.

If you have additional questions please post them here.

(M)

More evidence.....

A great video detailing startling proofs for the existence of God and the reality of Christianity:

[link to video.google.com]

Yes I have already seen those scriptures and still am left with no evidence. Each of these scriptures mention a servant of the lord, or someone who is doing the works of the lord. I do believe in something we call God "yet can't even comprehend", where I come up short though is Christianity. I do believe a great man named Jesus existed, but I am not sure there is the evidence proving he is God. A religion of Jesus' that became a religion about Jesus. God used many men,women, and other servants in history to due his work, we don't call them God. As far as son of God, aren't we all gods, sons of the most high.

Isaiah 53 in particular is talking about the servant of the lord as is told in Isaiah 52:13. But if you look back to Isaiah 49 in verse 3, it very specifically states who is the lord's servant...Israel.

Once again, I don't mock or try to disprove anything you believe, I just want to come to my own belief through my own studies. I don't know where I am spiritually and hope to find my way. I love to have religious conversations, because it helps my understanding to grow.

I actually was raised very devout Lutheran, baptized, confirmed and married in a church. But then I started actually reading the bible and questioning what i was taught. Nobody should believe everything they are told, everyone should come to it by their own means. That is where i am at now.

I would be glad to help answer any questions you may have.

First of all, I would say that anyone who attended a Lutheran, or Catholic, or Methodist, or most other mainline denominations probably got just enough "religion" to inoculate themselves......kind of like a "religion vaccine".....they got a little bit that is watered down and they feel like "yup now I know what that is about".

Basically I would suggest staying away from at least 75 percent of the churches in the United States. Most churches are a total mess.

Secondly, I feel that your view of Isaiah should be reconsidered. Isaiah 53 is clearly referring to an INDIVIDUAL over and over.

But even if you don't want to consider Isaiah 53, how do you deal with Psalm 22?

How do you deal with the fact that in Daniel 9:24-27, the EXACT TIMING of the coming of Christ was prophesied and the destruction of the temple afterwards (which happened in 70 AD) was also prophesied?

Go here and listen to the teaching entitled "Jesus' Death As A Fulfillment of Old Testament Prophecy":

[link to www.xenos.org]

It contains a detailed explanation of the Daniel prophecy. If you can debunk that one, then you will be the very first person on GLP to be able to do so.

And how do you deal with the dozens and dozens of other prophecies that Christ fulfilled? Here is a list of 45 of them:

[link to www.christiananswers.net]

I would encourage you to go back to the very first post and spend some time with each link. If you have questions about any of the issues raised in the various links I would be glad to answer them.

The evidence is very clear and it is out there for all of us to see. I wish all of you the very best on your journey towards truth.

(M)

Thank you for the many links. I want to assure you, I have the utmost confidence that there is something out there that we call God (uncomprehendable). I also believe that Jesus existed and is prophecied about in the old testament. I still haven't done the math on daniel, but watched the startling video and it is very convincing that Jesus was prophecied and did perform many works of God. Where I come to problems is where do we get the idea that Jesus IS God. All the prophecies state that there would be a coming servant that would do the works of God. I don't know of any scriptures that point to a trinity. As I said, Jesus was called the Son of God, but didn't he also quote Psalms saying "ye are gods, children of the most high". God used many people to do his work on earth, many others were called Son of God. When Jesus is referred to as the Son of Man, that is referring to Daniel when he said I saw in the night-visions, and, behold, there came with the clouds of the sky one like a son of man Daniel 7:13. This "son of man" is portraying the one coming on the clouds looking like a human. There are multiple instances in the bible referring to other "son of man", and "son of god"...Just because Jesus was prophecied about, what made him the "Son of God"? I just don't see the trinity being mentioned about in the old testament, just a coming figure which would do the work of God.

To recap: I Believe in something called "God"
I believe Jesus existed and was prophecied about
I don't see any mention of a trinity or the coming
figure being the "Son of God".

I appreciate all your time and comments, and I will definitely continue to research the links you have provided. As far as heaven and hell, i fully believe that after this life, there is other realms which some would call heaven and hell.

I congratulate you on your search on your honest pursuit of answers. Here are some scriptures for you to consider from the Old Testament:

1. Isaiah 9:6 is one of the most powerful proofs that Jesus is God: "For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father The Prince of Peace." The terms child and son refer to the Incarnation or manifestation of "The mighty God" and "The everlasting Father."

2. Isaiah prophesied that the Messiah would be called Immanuel, that is, God with us (Isaiah 7:14 Matthew 1:22-23).

3. Isaiah described the Messiah as both a branch out of Jesse (the father of David) and as the root of Jesse (Isaiah 11:1, 10; see also Revelation 22:16). According to the flesh He was a descendant (branch) of Jesse and David, but according to His Spirit He was their Creator and source of life (root). Jesus used this concept to confound the Pharisees when He quoted Psalm 110:1 and asked, in essence, "How could David call the Messiah Lord when the Messiah was to be the son (descendant) of David?" (Matthew 22:41-46).

4. Isaiah 35:4-6 shows that Jesus is God: "Behold, your God… he will come and save you." This passage goes on to say that when God comes the eyes of the blind would be opened, the ears of the deaf would be unstopped, the lame would leap, and the tongue of the dumb would speak. Jesus applied this passage of Scripture to Himself (Luke 7:22) and, of course, His ministry did produce all of these things.

5. Isaiah 40:3 declares that one would cry in the wilderness, "Prepare ye the way of the LORD, make straight in the desert a highway for our God." John the Baptist fulfilled this prophecy when he prepared the way for Jesus (Matthew 3:3); so Jesus is the LORD (Jehovah) and our God.

6. Micah 5:2 proves that the Messiah is God. "But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah… out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel, whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting."

Also, Jesus quoted Psalm 110:1 to address the same matter in Luke 20:42-44:

42David himself declares in the Book of Psalms:
" 'The Lord said to my Lord:
"Sit at my right hand
43until I make your enemies
a footstool for your feet." '[a] 44David calls him 'Lord.' How then can he be his son?"

In addition, the Lord is speaking in Zechariah 12:10 and He speaks of being "pierced" by the Jewish people and this verse also speaks of the return of Christ to the earth to set up the Millenial Kingdom:

10 "And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and supplication. They will look on me, the one they have pierced, and they will mourn for him as one mourns for an only child, and grieve bitterly for him as one grieves for a firstborn son."

I hope these verses are helpful to you.

(M)

When you die you go to the 4th dimension (astral), and in the astral you create what you believe. If you are a hardcore christian you will go to astral/fake heaven or astral hell. The real heaven is 5d and up and you will go there when you have mastered the phycical realm were we all dwell right now. So drop your delusions, that will save you some pain.

Can you please post any evidence for what you believe?

Do you have any logical reason to describe Christians as delusional?

What people respect is not empty rhetoric but rather facts and logic and evidence.

A lot of great information in this thread.