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Prima Sounds, and the out of whack tuning scale that is A=440

 
Mister Ed
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06/21/2007 10:58 PM
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Prima Sounds, and the out of whack tuning scale that is A=440
Here's an interesting topic for those into music, energy, and tuning. This topic suggests that the A=440 pitch that we are so accustomed to now - is in fact false.

We should be listening and tuning into the A=432 pitch/scale instead, which is much more synchronous with nature and the universe.

Here's some stuff I found...

==

Modern music is stuck in a tuning which was initiated by Josef Goebbels, the minister of propaganda of Hitler Germany, in 1939. This tuning (A=440Hz) is completely out of sync with the music of the universe and A Bigger Bang proves that modern music is part of an old paradigm quickly dying away. Within a few years everybody with ears to hear and eyes to see will discover the present world tour of music is the closing act of the masters of Rock'n Roll and of a musical era.

To prove this statement I have to return to Goebbels, one of the masters of manipulation in human history. It is a well know fact that the Nazis were in search of the holy grail and discovered in esoteric knowledge the means to mislead and conquer the world. The tuning of A=440 Hz (in the beginning of the 20th century already implemented in the USA ...) was invented for one reason and one reason only: to control and manipulate the masses into unknowingness and use them for their own purposes.

From the musical masters of the East was learned that the human body is tuned to musical vibrations. The old musical masters from India and Tibet know how to play every emotion in the human body by using the right musical notes and... the right musical tuning. The 6th sense of human beings (their intuition or instant knowing) vibrates on A=432 Hz (the reason for example the Borobodour has 432 Buddha Statues) and by untuning the 6th sense and making A=440 Hz the musical standard Goebbels & (present day) followers have a simple means to misguide and misdirect everybody.

If you don't believe me, consider the fact once upon a time you were one single cell. Next splitting up and forming 1-2-4-8-16-32-64-128-256-512-1024-2048...cells. In fact this cell division process is a cascade of coherent musical octaves, also connected with our brainwaves and consciousness itself. A432 Hz is the 6th note in the octave starting with C=256 Hz.

The Goebbels tuning is simply untuning this cascade of octaves, creating untuned, sick human beings (the tuning is untuning not only the 6th sense but the whole human body and mind), divided against themselves and easy to manipulate and use by the power-elite to sell more and more of their worthless products, including the degenerated music itself.

The Stradivarius violin was made for playing in A=432 Hz, Mozart compsed his music in A=432Hz. What does this mean? This means simply you have never heard the real music of Mozart. Even music played on old instruments in A=432 Hz is manipulated in the musical studio's into A=440 Hz.

So all you composers and musicians it is high time to wake up and remove all chains of Plato's Cave! Music is a very powerful vibration and we are all made from it. So let's start listening to our own original and blissful music with new, enlightened ears.

(Quotes taken from Jacques Groenen)

==

[link to www.primasounds.com]

The fulfillment of the history of systematic philosophy was Kant’s discovery: that human experience is based on three levels: sensation, intellect and reason. Sensations are the awareness of reality, submitted to the laws of space and time. Intellect confers the capacity to order sensations according to logical laws. Reason enables us to understand the Infinite and creativity.

There are three aspects to infinity:

Infinity of space;

Infinity of time, based on the cycle and the octave, repeating the starting point as a result; and,

Infinity of number, that the series never ends, that after each number follows another one.

The numbers are based on the sequence 1-9, and ten or zero. Each has a quality, which is the basis of intuition. Space is geometrical, and shows the laws of physics and matter. Time is infinite in repetition, repeating the order on a higher level, and thus is the basis of evolution, from matter to Man. All three levels have a common denominator in music or tones. Every tone is a synthesis of space and time, matter and vibration. Therefore mathematics is music, and this music is either description or creation.

The structure of the human organism is physical, an ordered entity. But this organism is vitalized by vibration, by energy. Thus the human form has an energetic counterpart. As the structure of the body-mind is sevenfold: spirit-soul-body, willing, feeling, thinking and sensation; each of these correspond to a single tone – which is a part of the sevenfold space-time-structure. These sounds constitute an ordered gestalt - the Prima Sounds. By knowing these sounds we can touch the energy field, and, with this, have the possibility to act upon these energies.

The ratio of these numbers is the division of seven, an interval between the overtones not used in other harmonic structures. 7/7, 7/6, 7/5, 7/4, 7/3, 7/2, 7/1. Each of these fundamental tones will effect the corresponding energy structure or chakra. Thus they help to tune the mind, and create a tool to attain the synthesis.

Listening or playing those sounds transforms consciousness into awareness, awakening the being of Man behind the phenomenological appearance.

Out of this structure emerges five intervals. By doubling the five-tone scale we attain the oldest existing scale tenfold scale, called the Slendro scale, much older then the Pythagorean sevenfold octave.

Ralph has developed a music based on this scale. The music enables the player and listener to tune their mind to Awareness and therefore to being, attaining union with the cosmical energy force called in India “Prana”, and in China and Central Asia “Chi”. This musical discovery has happened before in many parts of the globe, but only today we can understand its functioning and affects.

Music in the European tradition belongs to the arts. However, in many countries music had a second significance – to understand its effect on healing. This aspect demands a deepening of the understanding of the laws of sounds. Energy appears in two forms of vibration – longitudinal and transversal. Longitudinal are waves of water and sound; transversal are waves of light and many physical phenomena. We will only be concerned with the first kind of vibrations. If I throw a stone into a pond, from the place of its entrance it will form circular waves. We can also describe transversal waves in a string – the vibrations follow a clear sequence. First the whole string vibrates, then the two halves, then the three thirds. To express in a linear sequence:

1
½
3/3
4/4
5/5………………………

In tones the following intervals will appear:

the half of the string vibrates in an octave,
1/3 in a fifth,
1/4 in a fourth,
a 5th in five places.

The vibrations are divided according to nodes, places which do not resound. All these are used in the building of instruments. The intervals show the following fractions:

1/2 = octave
1/3 = fifth
3/4 = a fourth
1/5 = a major third
1/6 = octave of the first fifths
1/7 = is not used in our notations.

The one seventh interval is different from the major second of 1/9 and 1/10. When used, however, this 1/7th interval will divide the octave into five parts. This is the basis of Prima Sounds, also used in the Asian slendro scale, in difference to the Pythagorean scale, out of which our twelve notes have developed.

Now the Pythagorean scale was used analogically as corresponding to the planets, the sun and their relation to the galaxy. The slendro scale, used in central Asia, Indonesia and parts of Africa, does not refer to a planetary analogy, but to the structure of the human awareness field, the chakras of Yoga.

The Pythagorean scale was used to understand the structure of the solar system, and the Ptolemean world view beyond Kepler. For most people it is the only frame of reference. The slendro scale, based on five Elements, and a sequence of ten dimensions – in accordance of the elementary structure of physics – is in accordance with the structure of consciousness and spiritual reality.

The five elements of Asia, Africa and Indonesia are based on the five elements of the pentagram:

1 – wood
2 – fire
3 – earth
4 – metal/mineral
5 – water – life

The basis of reality is matter, with its chemical elements and 4 forces. The basis of life force and consciousness is the fundamental spiritual force, called CHI. Our spiritual or energetic body – based on longitudinal – sound waves – is based on the Prima Sounds. Therefore the sounds can be used for healing, for revitalizations, and penetrating to the meaning of life, of making sense. The five elements can in Taoism be used in two ways: the cycle of creation and destruction. Thus, the five-tone scale of Prima Sounds serves for understanding the structure of the energy body, and is used in many ways.

The history of the slendro scale has been investigated by Professor Steve Otto of York University, Montreal. He has documented that it is much older than the Greek scale and can be used for many purposes. Used as a basis for musical compositions by Ralph (with Prima Sounds), it has already shown its value in many critical situations, but also in enhancing spiritual vitality and creativity. For instance, the various Prima Sounds CDs have been used to help people in emotional and intellectual crisis. But we are just beginning to explore all its potentialities.

To articulate Prima Sounds and activate its full usefulness, we have to add more data. The basic tone is 12 Hertz – this is the so-called samadhi vibration activating the cosmic consciousness as described by Maurice Bucke. This is, so to say, the real basic tone – the equivalent to “C” of the seven-tone scale. But, having the fundamental tone is only the basis – we also have to understand how the other tones develop. The earth has a vibration of 7 Hertz, as with the earthquakes. So, by adding the sevenfold division, consciousness will tune into the earth vibration, therewith uniting cosmic consciousness with normal consciousness – attaining the flow of creativity, and therewith the primal source of CHI, of the Universe.

The existence of sacred music was well known in most traditions, but the breakthrough came by the merging with the pentatonic scale. Thus the discovery of Prima Sounds is a step toward an unknown future.

This scale articulates the human awareness field, the seven chakras. Therefore I called this tone in my first introduction Chakra Music. The seventh overtone divides the octave into five intervals. As the fifth tone will be the octave, the value of the intervals is:

First root of five,
Second root of five,
Third root of five,
Fourth root of five,
Octave.

In 1971, I built an electronic organ with 25 keys, based on the pentatonic scale of Prima Sounds (then called Chakra Music). We called this organ a chakraphone. I took it to an international yoga congress in Switzerland. The Dalai Lama attended and brought some tapes of Tibetan ceremonial music - it corresponded exactly to the sounds of the chakraphone. At the next Yoga congress in Morocco, when I played these tones, all of the animals present – dogs and camels – started to move in accordance with the music. In the meantime, I saw the film by Peter Brooke on Gurdjieff (Meetings With Remarkable Men). It starts with a scene in Central Asia, where a musician played the same sequence, and the surrounding landscape responded. Next year I was in Mykene, and played the chakraphone in a structure called Agamenon’s Grove, which I consider an acoustical device. The same thing happened as in the film: suddenly I heard answering music. The director of the same theater, Prof. Basilidaes, told me that this had only happened once before. Thus it seems that Prima Sounds not only have a human impact, but also an impact on animals and the surrounding environment.

In France, I visited the head of the musical research institute of the French Radio, Prof. Francois Bayle. He had also discovered the tone structure, and had used it in some experimental concerts. I invited him to perform a concert in the Museum of Modern Art in Vienna, and it was a great success. Professor Steve Otto, the slendro scale authority, has also shown great interest in Prima Sounds and studied with us in Vienna.

Effects of Playing or Listening to Prima Sounds

The seven chakras are not the structure of the energy body, but of a structure one could call the Awareness body. It has the quality of directly perceiving the corresponding realms of reality:

1. muladhara chakra – sense reality;
2. swadhistana chakra – realm of thinking, language and number;
3. manipura chakra – realm based on the emotions and impulses;
4. anahata chakra – realm of willing and decision, based on energy;
5. vishudha chakra – realm of the body and its organism;
6. ajna chakra – inner eye, realm of the soul and communication;
7. sahasara chakra – realm of the spirit, the inner light and vision.

Man’s danger as described by the Buddha and Gurdjieff is to identify with mental representation. Thus the awakening of the chakras reveals the being.

By playing Prima Sounds all chakras are activated simultaneously, annihilating the false dependence on illusion, mechanicalness and repetitive associations. Man’s being is liberated from the false chains of dependence; it attains cosmic consciousness in the meaning of Maurice Burke (1890).
A horse is a horse.. of course of course..
Normal Is Subjective

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06/21/2007 11:23 PM
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Re: Prima Sounds, and the out of whack tuning scale that is A=440
Interesting Ed, I always noticed when I tuned my guitar by ear and then later checked it with a fork or electric tuner it would invariably be flat, but my inner tuning fork would "feel" better.
I thought I'd beat the inevitibility of death to death just a little bit.
Anonymous Coward
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06/22/2007 01:08 AM
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Re: Prima Sounds, and the out of whack tuning scale that is A=440
yep thanks for more info
TEXAS UNCENSORED
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06/22/2007 01:44 AM
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Re: Prima Sounds, and the out of whack tuning scale that is A=440
I noticed vocally a long time ago. I was told I have perfect pitch, and a known producer used to say he could tune his Nakamichi tuner to my voice.
but, in a live band situation, after the guitarists tuning to 440, I had to bring up my pitch.
My keyboards also had to be tuned up a notch.
Also, played clarinet. It was likely a 432 instrument, as it was always a little flat, and had to be adjusted to the tuner at 440.

Interesting information.
Anonymous Coward
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06/22/2007 02:13 AM
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Re: Prima Sounds, and the out of whack tuning scale that is A=440
most definitely
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06/22/2007 02:31 AM
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Re: Prima Sounds, and the out of whack tuning scale that is A=440
This may explain something else I noticed. In the 60's and early 70's music had more of an instant grab on the audience, a resonance that could literally be seen in the air. It's something most noticed with expert vocal groups from the stage. Tuners were often not used, but rather you tuned to a piano, or a tuning whistle.
In the 90's into present, with digital tuners, while the instruments were perfectly in tune, and the vocals achieving the right harmonics, the energy or physical connection wasn't as intense.
Similar to musicians often preferring vinyl to disc, and analog to digital.
Mister Ed (OP)

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06/22/2007 02:35 AM
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Re: Prima Sounds, and the out of whack tuning scale that is A=440
There are a number of websites that have Prima Music available on CD. Be interesting to hear it, and to make comparisons.

One of the things I will attempt to do over the weekend, is raise this subject with some musician friends - particularly those who are well skilled in musical theory. Again, it would be interesting to get their view on it.

Just think, we could change the whole paradigm of music and consciousness just by dropping to a different pitch!!!
A horse is a horse.. of course of course..
Anonymous Coward
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06/22/2007 02:46 AM
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Re: Prima Sounds, and the out of whack tuning scale that is A=440
I have been searching for this forever thanks so much!!
TEXAS UNCENSORED
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06/22/2007 02:50 AM
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Re: Prima Sounds, and the out of whack tuning scale that is A=440
One experiment could be tuning the instruments to the best voice, and see what the tuning reads. Then , without telling anyone what you are doing, see if they get more of the goosebump feeling with that, or the A-440.
Should be interesting.
Anonymous Coward
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06/22/2007 02:50 AM
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Re: Prima Sounds, and the out of whack tuning scale that is A=440
I don't get it... what does it really matter if we call A=440 Hz or if we call A=320 Hz or if we call A=299 Hz? It's all just relative, the other notes would simply change a proportional amount as well.

???
Anonymous Coward
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06/22/2007 02:52 AM
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Re: Prima Sounds, and the out of whack tuning scale that is A=440
the medival churches are littered with symbols of sound in the form of decorations. These decorations have been suggested to be the actual patterns of sound as effected in substance(sand is often used) by vibrational patterns made at different frequencies. However there are some missing bits/as duplications are used as replacements for the removed areas, and all this had stemmed from a request by the church to remove this particular note/tone/frequency pattern as it was referred to as the devils something or another . . I've just completed 18 hours of exams yesterday, and oddly enough .. this is what has been on my back burner. What the hell is the devils whatever it is to be concerned about . . an awakening tone to be sure, eh?
TEXAS UNCENSORED
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06/22/2007 03:14 AM
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Re: Prima Sounds, and the out of whack tuning scale that is A=440
It's the tritonus, and is a dissonant sound.
"Tritone (tritonus), the interval of the augmented fourth or diminished fifth (also called the tritonic fourth and tritonic fifth), which spans three (whole) tones. The augmented fourth (IV+) and diminished fifth (V°) are enharmonic spellings for the Tritone. These two intervals are the same sound, but they are written differently."
[link to thelemicmusick.net]
Anonymous Coward
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06/22/2007 03:25 AM
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Re: Prima Sounds, and the out of whack tuning scale that is A=440
It was called the Devil's chord.


Rosslyn Chapel has the geometric cubes signifying each tone in the Schumann scale.

[link to www.youtube.com]
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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06/22/2007 10:06 PM
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Re: Prima Sounds, and the out of whack tuning scale that is A=440
I don't get it... what does it really matter if we call A=440 Hz or if we call A=320 Hz or if we call A=299 Hz? It's all just relative, the other notes would simply change a proportional amount as well.

???
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 253374

It isn't relative. The pitch can change, but our ability to interpret it cannot. It is fixed.

Therefore it is easier to change the pitch (the object and/or tuning device), so that bodies can harmonise with it.

The analogy is sort of like being out of phase. Akin to a radio frequency.
Anonymous Coward
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06/22/2007 10:40 PM
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Re: Prima Sounds, and the out of whack tuning scale that is A=440
Many orchestras are now tuning to A=442 because it has a "brighter" sound.
Anonymous Coward
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06/22/2007 10:45 PM
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Re: Prima Sounds, and the out of whack tuning scale that is A=440
Luanne Oakes, in her Spiritual Alchemy course talks about the body being tuned to A-432.

[link to www.learnoutloud.com]
HangLow

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Re: Prima Sounds, and the out of whack tuning scale that is A=440
drop C
Normal Is Subjective

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06/22/2007 11:29 PM
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Re: Prima Sounds, and the out of whack tuning scale that is A=440
One experiment could be tuning the instruments to the best voice, and see what the tuning reads. Then , without telling anyone what you are doing, see if they get more of the goosebump feeling with that, or the A-440.
Should be interesting.
 Quoting: TEXAS UNCENSORED 255497


That's exactly the feeling I get when I use my body tuner, a goosebump trill runs up my spine and my inner ears feel like there's a momentary change in air pressure.
I thought I'd beat the inevitibility of death to death just a little bit.
Anonymous Coward
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07/09/2007 07:29 PM
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Re: Prima Sounds, and the out of whack tuning scale that is A=440
combining [link to www.youtube.com] and

13489. Ralph Losey - [The Discovery Of Chakra Music #02] Eagle's Gift

is quite nice
Anonymous Coward
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02/09/2009 07:14 AM
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Re: Prima Sounds, and the out of whack tuning scale that is A=440
its about ratio not if A is 440 or anything else, this thread has totally missed the point, trapped in the hertz system.... again.
bubba
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02/09/2009 07:41 AM
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Re: Prima Sounds, and the out of whack tuning scale that is A=440
The black /white key pattern of one octave on a piano mirrors the overlapping sp orbital levels in the Oxygen atom.Being a main component of our air,O2,which delivers sound to the human ear,explains why this particular arrangement is so pleasing-so naturalJust ask Pythagoras.Earth>human resonance. P.S>Enigma---you've still got my book....
guest
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03/01/2010 10:10 AM
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Re: Prima Sounds, and the out of whack tuning scale that is A=440
Hi there! I'm looking for the precise frequencies of Ralph Losey's scale (the primasounds chakra scale) to get an instrument custom-tuned with it.
I'm not sure whether it will be melodically satisfying but as a holistic healer I'm very interested in what I can do with it. Primasounds CDs are really good for self-introspection, but unfortunately the public email address is not valid anymore.

Anyone?
Anonymous Coward
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03/01/2010 10:22 AM
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Re: Prima Sounds, and the out of whack tuning scale that is A=440
the bottom line is what i want to know:

how can i easily tune my guitar to match these chakra tones?

i have a digital tuner but it doesn't even have the option to go down to 432 hz. but as one poster said it isn't the hz it is the ratios.

can someone plz help me getting my guitar tuned to these prima tones or whatever!

could be tough on my floyd rose floating bridge on the electric but i would like to first try them out on my acoustic :)
DanG
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03/01/2010 10:32 AM
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Re: Prima Sounds, and the out of whack tuning scale that is A=440
won't tuning down 1/2 step come close
Eb, Ab etc
Anonymous Coward
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03/01/2010 10:33 AM
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Re: Prima Sounds, and the out of whack tuning scale that is A=440
just tuning down a little isn't enough cause the tones generated that match the harmonic structures have to be very precise or the harmonics will be off. you might be 'close' but the overtones won't be the same
Anonymous Coward
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03/01/2010 10:35 AM
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Re: Prima Sounds, and the out of whack tuning scale that is A=440
the bottom line is what i want to know:

how can i easily tune my guitar to match these chakra tones?

i have a digital tuner but it doesn't even have the option to go down to 432 hz. but as one poster said it isn't the hz it is the ratios.

can someone plz help me getting my guitar tuned to these prima tones or whatever!

could be tough on my floyd rose floating bridge on the electric but i would like to first try them out on my acoustic :)
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 882874

if you have a microphone on ur comp try this its what i use
[link to www.seventhstring.com]

i was on 432 for a while, but idk, i felt weird playing with it. a dream i had a while back was the beatles all pissed off at me saying playing in 432 hz was "mean"

i took it to mean something to do with spiritual law and that maybe it should only be used for serious ritual or something.


so im back on 440 now. sounds better when playing songs that were written for 440 anyways.
Anonymous Coward
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03/01/2010 10:37 AM
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Re: Prima Sounds, and the out of whack tuning scale that is A=440
thx for the link i will try it out. i only play my own songs anyways so i will compose new ones for the 432 :)
Gannon

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03/01/2010 10:41 AM
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Re: Prima Sounds, and the out of whack tuning scale that is A=440
It is not that tough to retune your guitar to A432.

I have recently tried this, and am amazed at the results already. My eighteen-year-old Taylor has never made my body vibrate before...we are ONE instrument using this tuning.


I got a tone off the 'net and went from there. I tune using the harmonics, so it wasn't tough to get it.


The trouble will be convincing ANY other musicians of this.


I've only sent out ONE encouragement, to a Boston-based musician named Elizabeth Butters...who does a lovely job keeping the old Americana music alive.

Never heard back from her. I thought of her first because one of the recordings I found on-line, playing instruments designed for 432 actually made the fiddle sound GOOD.



I've got a ton of very resonant 'Neo-Indigenous' acoustic musician friends here in Detroit, and will be experimenting with this more and more this year. It should be fun.



Cheers

Last Edited by Gannon on 03/01/2010 10:44 AM
Gadfly and Rogue Philosopher
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03/01/2010 11:02 AM
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Re: Prima Sounds, and the out of whack tuning scale that is A=440
There are some good points about the tuning itself but I would have to disagree with the presumption that all modern music tunes A to 440Hz. In fact, I'm listening to electronic music right now that uses the proper frequencies in tuning; the group is called A Lily.

The cool thing about stringed instruments in general is that they have analog tuners. Dropping the pitch of a note 8 hertz is as simple as a turn of the wrist...
The storm is closing in to begin again from the beginning. Never sitting through my waking life oblivious. The ignorance running rampant through the city is indicative of something worse; this picture isn't pretty.
guest
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03/03/2010 12:48 AM
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Re: Prima Sounds, and the out of whack tuning scale that is A=440
Hi people :)

I'm really glad this topic is still active :)

I've never heard any instruments tuned in the primasounds scale except for their CDs synth, but I know that if you're ready, those tones can really cleanse you up. I was skeptical at first but as I was lying in bed listening to the first tracks (octave progression), I zoned out for a couple minutes and actually missed one key. So when I came back to my senses, my count was off one key/chakra and I was expecting the solar plexus to vibrate. Instead, my pelvic area started buzzing bigtime and when I later realised I had fallen asleep, I understood the feeling was spontaneous, not "delusional" or imaginary since I was expecting it at a different location.


Anyways, could anyone please tell me how I should instruct the maker to tune the instrument in this scale, while keeping in mind that i'm totally musically ignorant? (got abused by scary accordeon teacher in elementary school... half j/k) lol

thanks :)
:)
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03/03/2010 01:02 AM
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Re: Prima Sounds, and the out of whack tuning scale that is A=440
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