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Why sabbath keeping is necessary to receive salvation

 
Anonymous Coward
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07/01/2007 10:43 PM
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Re: Why sabbath keeping is necessary to receive salvation
The Bible makes it incredibly clear...

It is the Devil who, "makes war with those who keep the commandments of God".

Now I want to hear it from your own lying lips. Should a person "calling" himself a Christian, keep the 10 commandments, or not.

Satan... your response?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 259217


Here is a better question,

are you righteous because Christ fulfilled the law and your faith is in what he has done to fulfill all righteousness.

Or are you a depending on your own ability to fulfill the law and come to God by your own righteousness?


The difference is the first is faith and in the Spirit and the second is self righteousness and in the flesh.
Anonymous Coward
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07/01/2007 10:47 PM
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Re: Why sabbath keeping is necessary to receive salvation
Quote:

"The prohecies and words in the bible are for the spiritually discerned, not the casual observer. For the spiritually discerned the law is done away and all is fulfilled...It is finished, the kingdom of God is come and the new heavens and earth are indeed instituted upon us."


Now THERE is someone who is TRULY dead, from the neck up!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 259217


Of course you cannot see this because you are a casual observer, because for you nothing is fulfilled, the kingdom of darkness is still ruling and you are bound under the old heaven and the old earth
Anonymous Coward
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07/01/2007 10:48 PM
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Re: Why sabbath keeping is necessary to receive salvation
The prohecies and words in the bible are for the spiritually discerned, not the casual observer. For the spiritually discerned the law is done away and all is fulfilled...It is finished, the kingdom of God is come and the new heavens and earth are indeed instituted upon us.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 186930


What is the spirit of the anti-messiah? The deceivers must explain away anything that the false messiah cannot perform. It takes the spiritually deceived to think that anything other than the law/Torah was fulfilled by Yahushua.
Amishism

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07/01/2007 10:50 PM
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Re: Why sabbath keeping is necessary to receive salvation
Was the Sabbath made only for the Jews?


This falsehood has gained such strength that multitudes of Christians refer to it as the "Jewish Sabbath." But nowhere do we find such an expression in the Bible. It is called "the sabbath of the Lord," but never "the sabbath of the Jews." Exodus 20:10. Luke was a Gentile writer of the New Testament and often made reference to things which were peculiarly Jewish. He spoke of the "nation of the Jews," "the people of the Jews," "the land of the Jews," and the "synagogue of the Jews." Acts 10:22; 12:11; 10:39; 14:1. But please note that Luke never referred to the "sabbath of the Jews," although he mentioned the Sabbath repeatedly.

Christ clearly taught that "the sabbath was made for man." Mark 2:27. The fact is that Adam was the only man in existence at the time God made the Sabbath. There were no Jews in the world for at least 2,000 years after creation. It could never have been made for them. Jesus used the term "man" in the generic sense, referring to mankind. The same word is used in connection with the institution of marriage which was also introduced at creation. Woman was made for man just as the Sabbath was made for man. Certainly no one believes that marriage was made only for the Jews.

The fact is that two beautiful, original institutions were set up by God Himself before sin ever came into the world - marriage and the Sabbath. Both were made for man, both received the special blessing of the Creator and both continue to be just as holy now as when they were sanctified in the Garden of Eden.

It is also interesting to note that Jesus was the One who made the Sabbath in the first week of time. There was a reason for His claim to be Lord of the Sabbath day (Mark 2:28). If He is the Lord of the Sabbath day, then the Sabbath must be the Lord's day. John had a vision on "the Lord's day," according to Revelation 1:10. That day had to be the Sabbath. It is the only day so designated and claimed by God in the Bible. In writing the Ten Commandments, God called it "the sabbath of the Lord." Exodus 20:10. In Isaiah He is quoted as saying, "The sabbath, my holy day." (Isaiah 58:13).

But we must not overlook the fact that this God who created the world and made the Sabbath was Jesus Christ Himself. John wrote: "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. ... And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father), full of grace and truth." John 1:1-3, 14.

Paul clearly identified Jesus as the Creator, "... his dear Son: In whom we have redemption through his blood. ... For by him were all things created." Colossians 1:13-16.
For Christians to separate Jesus from the Sabbath is a tragic mistake. For He is the Author, the Maker, the Sanctifier, and the Architect of the Sabbath. To discount the blessing which He placed on that day is to deny His authority.

This argument has led many to believe that the Sabbath existed only for a limited period of time following creation. But is this a fact? Actually, the Sabbath could never be just a type or shadow of anything, for the simple reason that it was made before sin entered the human family. Certain shadows and typical observances were instituted as a result of sin and pointed forward to the deliverance from sin. Such were the sacrifices employed to symbolize the death of Jesus, the Lamb of God. There would have been no animal sacrifices had there been no sin. These offerings were abolished when Christ died on the cross, because the types had met their fulfillment (Matthew 27:51). But no shadow existed before sin entered this world; therefore, the Sabbath could not be included in the ceremonial law of types and shadows.

Paul referred to the temporary system of ordinances in Colossians 2:14-16 as being "against us" and "contrary to us." He tied it to the meat offerings, drink offerings, and yearly festivals of the law that was "blotted out." It is true he referred to sabbaths also in the text, but take careful note that he called them "sabbath days which are a shadow of things to come." Were some sabbath days blotted out at the cross? Yes, there were at least four yearly sabbaths which came on certain set days of the month, and they were nailed to the cross. They were shadows and required specified meat and drink offerings. All of these annual sabbaths are described in Leviticus 23:24-36, and then summarized in verses 37 and 38: "These are the feasts of the Lord, which ye shall proclaim to be holy convocations, to offer an offering made by fire unto the Lord, a burnt offering, and a meat offering, a sacrifice, and drink offerings, every thing upon his day: beside the sabbaths of the Lord."

The Scripture plainly differentiates between the annual, shadowy sabbaths and the weekly "sabbaths of the Lord." The ceremonial sabbaths were blotted out at the cross; they had been added as a consequence of sin. But the Sabbath of the Ten-Commandment law had been hallowed before sin was introduced and was later incorporated into the great moral law written by the finger of God. It was eternal in its very nature.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 259217

Absolutely the Sabbath and the seven day week has been with us from creation.

1 John 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
King James

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07/01/2007 10:52 PM
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Re: Why sabbath keeping is necessary to receive salvation
Yes as Christians we should have the desire to be like Christ but remember that being a Christian doesn't rid us of the flesh. It's a battle each and every day to do the Lord's will or your own.

All sins are equal, nothing is worse than the other. Do you ever want anything of your neighbors, say their car, or their boat, or their wife or husband even? That's coveting, it's a sin. Do you lie to protect yourself or someone else? Lying is a sin. At what point do you draw the line between saved and unsaved. Yes you will know them by their fruit. You don't make a habit of sinning. Sometimes we do it without even thinking about it. It's because we're still cursed of the flesh. But our heart should desire to be like Christ. Paul himself said, "why is I do the things I don't want to do and I don't do the things I want to do?" And here is a man who wrote many books of the Bible. Whom God loved as he loves us all. Christianity doesn't equal perfectionism.

We will not be without spot or wrinkle until we're without the flesh.

In all things, praise the Lord. We will stumble, but believe in the Lord. He's there to pick you up, love you and help you to walk the straight and narrow.

Staying in the Word and pursuing Him puts us in fellowship with him. He'll protect and guide us.

We've all fallen short and will continue to fall short. But through the life, death and resurrection of Christ we're made whole.
Anonymous Coward
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07/01/2007 10:54 PM
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Re: Why sabbath keeping is necessary to receive salvation
The Bible makes it incredibly clear...

It is the Devil who, "makes war with those who keep the commandments of God".

Now I want to hear it from your own lying lips. Should a person "calling" himself a Christian, keep the 10 commandments, or not.

Satan... your response?


Here is a better question,

are you righteous because Christ fulfilled the law and your faith is in what he has done to fulfill all righteousness.

Or are you a depending on your own ability to fulfill the law and come to God by your own righteousness?


The difference is the first is faith and in the Spirit and the second is self righteousness and in the flesh.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 186930




Well, I am a casual observer of this thread, and I must say, the pro commandment keepers are totally burying the hollow logic of those who are "grace" only Chrisitans. Sure, it is grace that saves us, but it is BECAUSE we are saved, that we keep His commandments. What part of that, don't you rocket scientists don't get? LOL...

To the armchair bible scholar in the above quote, HERE is the BEST question...

Are we able to keep God's commandments by own OWN power and righteousness?

Of course not.

It is the Power that Jesus imparts unto us who are WILLING to be obedient to His commandments. If He can make a DAY Holy, He is able to make US holy.

Are you trying to tell me that we are COMMANDED to do the impossible?

Huh?

God COMMANDS us to do the impossible??


With God, ALL things are possible. Go now, and sin no more.
Anonymous Coward
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07/01/2007 10:58 PM
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Re: Why sabbath keeping is necessary to receive salvation
Yes as Christians we should have the desire to be like Christ but remember that being a Christian doesn't rid us of the flesh. It's a battle each and every day to do the Lord's will or your own.

All sins are equal, nothing is worse than the other. Do you ever want anything of your neighbors, say their car, or their boat, or their wife or husband even? That's coveting, it's a sin. Do you lie to protect yourself or someone else? Lying is a sin. At what point do you draw the line between saved and unsaved. Yes you will know them by their fruit. You don't make a habit of sinning. Sometimes we do it without even thinking about it. It's because we're still cursed of the flesh. But our heart should desire to be like Christ. Paul himself said, "why is I do the things I don't want to do and I don't do the things I want to do?" And here is a man who wrote many books of the Bible. Whom God loved as he loves us all. Christianity doesn't equal perfectionism.

We will not be without spot or wrinkle until we're without the flesh.

In all things, praise the Lord. We will stumble, but believe in the Lord. He's there to pick you up, love you and help you to walk the straight and narrow.

Staying in the Word and pursuing Him puts us in fellowship with him. He'll protect and guide us.

We've all fallen short and will continue to fall short. But through the life, death and resurrection of Christ we're made whole.
 Quoting: King James


Don't stop there King James because the best is written write after the scripture passage you reflected upon in Romans 7

Romans 8
1Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus,
2because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set me free from the law of sin and death.
3For what the law was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the sinful nature, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful man to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in sinful man,
4in order that the righteous requirements of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the sinful nature but according to the Spirit.
Anonymous Coward
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07/01/2007 11:01 PM
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Re: Why sabbath keeping is necessary to receive salvation
I still haven't heard a legitimate answer to the question:

SHOULD A CHRISITAN KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS, OR NOT?


A very simple and straight forward question. Stop dancing, and answer the question.

The answer is so simple and obvious, but those of you who continue to rebel against God's eternal law, REFUSE to answer.

Well, you WILL answer someday. Plain and simple.
Anonymous Coward
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07/01/2007 11:03 PM
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Re: Why sabbath keeping is necessary to receive salvation
It is the Power that Jesus imparts unto us who are WILLING to be obedient to His commandments. If He can make a DAY Holy, He is able to make US holy.

Are you trying to tell me that we are COMMANDED to do the impossible?

Huh?

God COMMANDS us to do the impossible??


With God, ALL things are possible. Go now, and sin no more.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 259217


Galatians 3
25 Now that faith has come, we are no longer under the supervision of the law.
Anonymous Coward
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07/01/2007 11:04 PM
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Re: Why sabbath keeping is necessary to receive salvation
I still haven't heard a legitimate answer to the question:

SHOULD A CHRISITAN KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS, OR NOT?


A very simple and straight forward question. Stop dancing, and answer the question.

The answer is so simple and obvious, but those of you who continue to rebel against God's eternal law, REFUSE to answer.

Well, you WILL answer someday. Plain and simple.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 259217


Galatians 3
25 Now that faith has come, we are no longer under the supervision of the law.
Anonymous Coward
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07/01/2007 11:05 PM
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Re: Why sabbath keeping is necessary to receive salvation
Quote:


You are a clueless imbecile, with absolutely no understanding of scripture.

Go ahead. break the commandments. Teach others that it is OK, as well. You will be without excuse.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 259217


The love which is engendered by the indwelling Spirit of Christ fulfills the law ... thus states the scripture, testified to as well by the great company of saints. In your attempts to "keep" the law ... and in your lower nature's attempt to thus "reform" itself instead of submitting to the righteousness of God, you make and declare yourself a sinner who stomps on God's grace and perpetuates the "old man."

The good news is that someday, some way ... you will "get" it -- that is, you will eventually see and embrace the truth and start keeping the genuine Sabbath! You will laugh at how blinded and foolish you were ... and God will smile on you ...
Anonymous Coward
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07/01/2007 11:06 PM
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Re: Why sabbath keeping is necessary to receive salvation
So we are free to break the commandments?

Heaven forbid!

You are a total liar. You misapply scripture, exactly as does the devil.



Isn't There a "New" Law of Christ?

Some try to dispose of the Ten Commandments on the basis of the "new" commandments of love which Christ introduced. It is certainly true that Jesus laid down two great laws of love as a summary of all the law, but did He give the idea that these were new in point of time? The fact is that He was quoting directly from the Old Testament when He gave those new commandments. "And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might." Deuteronomy 6:5. "Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself." Leviticus 19:18. Certainly, those penetrating spiritual principles had been forgotten by the legalists of Christ's day, and they were new to them in relation to their life and practice. But they were not intended by Jesus to take the place of the Ten Commandments.

When the lawyer asked Jesus which was the greatest commandment in the law, he received the answer: "Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets." Matthew 22:37-40.

Notice that these two love commandments simply summed up "all the law and the prophets." They all hang upon these two principles of love. Christ was saying that love is the fulfilling of the law just as Paul repeated it later in Romans 13:10. If one loves Christ supremely with heart, soul, and mind, he will obey the first four commandments that have to do with our duty to God. He will not take God's name in vain, worship other gods, etc. If one loves his neighbor as himself, he will obey the last six commandments which relate to our duty to our fellow men. He will not be able to steal from his neighbor, lie about him, etc. Love will lead to obeying or fulfilling all the law.
THE DOOM

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07/01/2007 11:07 PM
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Re: Why sabbath keeping is necessary to receive salvation
Im just a casual obsever too..and ill say this...

To those who insists on KEEPING the law...according to what YOU believe..if you DONT keep the law you are doomed??

Right??

And according to the bible..."Those who keep the whole law and stuble in ONE POINT are GUILTY OF ALL.."..

So..for those "LAW" keepers...tell me...how many of you STILL have NOT hacked off your foreskins???...have NOT made yourselves cerimonially clean and all that other stuff..all 660 laws or so...that you DONT keep...

You constantly niggle over ONE law..like ANY good fuckung cult DOES..and BREAK THE FUCKING REST!!!Fucking hypocrites!!!

You are..according to what IVE read in the bible...just as bad as the fucking PHARISEES...straining at GNATS..and swollowing fucking CAMELS...and loading other down with loads to great to bear..namley their DOOM...and YOU selfrighteous elitist FUCKS wont lift a FINGER to help..instead you just load on MORE and MORE and MORE GULT..promising MORE and MORE and MORE DOOM...to all those NOT as stuck up and self fucking righteous as YOU lot are..


JUST LIKE THE FUCKING PHARISEES!!!


FUCKING DOOOOOMED!!!!..ALL of you...
Anonymous Coward
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07/01/2007 11:10 PM
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Re: Why sabbath keeping is necessary to receive salvation
It's so incredibly simple.

You say we are not Under the Law?

Often we hear this argument in an effort to belittle the law of God: "Well, since we are not under the law but under grace, we do not need to keep the Ten Commandments any longer." Is this a valid point? The Bible certainly does say that we are not under the law, but does that imply that we are free from the obligation to obey it? The text is found in Romans 6:14, 15. "For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace. What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid."

How easily we could prevent confusion if we accepted exactly what the Bible says. Paul gives his own explanation of his statement. After stating that we are not under the law but under grace, he asks, "What then?" This simply means, "How are we to understand this?" Then notice his answer. In anticipation that some will construe his words to mean that you can break the law because you are under grace, he says, "Shall we sin (break the law) because we are not under the law but under grace? God forbid." In the strongest possible language Paul states that being under grace does not give a license to break the law. Yet this is exactly what millions believe today, and they totally ignore Paul's specific warning.

If being under grace does not exempt us from keeping the law, then what does Paul mean by saying that Christians are not under the law? He gives that answer in Romans 3:19. "Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God." Here Paul equates being under the law with "being guilty before God." In other words, those who are under the law are guilty of breaking it and are under the condemnation of it. This is why Christians are not under it. They are not breaking it - not guilty and condemned by it. Therefore, they are not under it, but are under the power of grace instead. Later in his argument, Paul points out that the power of grace is greater than the power of sin. This is why he states so emphatically, "For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace." Grace overrules the authority of sin, giving power to obey God's law. This is the effective reason that we are not under the law's guilt and condemnation and also why Paul states that we will not continue to sin.

Suppose a murderer has been sentenced to death in the electric chair. Waiting for the execution the man would truly be under the law in every sense of the word - under the guilt, under the condemnation, under the sentence of death, etc. Just before the execution date the governor reviews the condemned man's case and decides to pardon him. In the light of extenuating circumstances the governor exercises his prerogative and sends a full pardon to the prisoner. Now he is no longer under the law but under grace. The law no longer condemns him. He is considered totally justified as far as the charges of the law are concerned. He is free to walk out of the prison and not a policeman can lay hands upon him. But now that he is under grace and no longer under the law, can we say that he is free to break the law? Indeed not! In fact, that pardoned man will be doubly obligated to obey the law because he has found grace from the governor. In gratitude and love he will be very careful to honor the law of that state which granted him grace. Is that what the Bible says about pardoned sinners? "Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law." Romans 3:31. Here is the most explicit answer to the entire problem. Paul asks if the law is nullified for us just because we have had faith in Christ's saving grace. His answer is that the law is established and reenforced in the life of a grace-saved Christian.

The truth of this is so simple and obvious that it should require no repetition, but the devious reasoning of those who try to avoid obedience makes it necessary to press this point a bit further. Have you ever been stopped by a policeman for exceeding the speed limit? It is an embarrassing experience, especially if you know you are guilty. But suppose you really were hurrying to meet a valid emergency, and you pour out your convincing explanation to the policeman as he writes your ticket. Slowly he folds the ticket and tears it up. Then he says, "All right, I'm going to pardon you this time, but ..." Now what do you think he means by that word "but"? Surely he means, "but I don't want to ever catch you speeding again." Does this pardon (grace) open the way for you to disobey the law? On the contrary, it adds compelling urgency to your decision not to disobey the law again. Why, then, should any true Christian try to rationalize his way out of obeying the law of God? "If ye love me," Jesus said, "keep my commandments." John 14:15.
Kay

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07/01/2007 11:11 PM
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Re: Why sabbath keeping is necessary to receive salvation
Poor Kay is an instrument for the devil, and doesn't even realize it. She is waging war against those who keep the commandments of God.

She (and others) have the mistaken belief (because they've been deceived) that obedience, is "legalism". she regards God's law as "ridiculous". That is her choice. That was Satans choice, as well.


The epistle to Titus says to "avoid foolish disputes about the law". that is because Jesus said:

"Think NOT that I came to abolish the law."

and...

"For ASSUREDLY, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by NO MEANS pass from the law till all is fulfilled."

***ALL***

"Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven. But whoever DOES and TEACHES them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven."


The REASON that we are to avoid disputes regarding the law, is because THERE IS NOTHING TO ARGUE ABOUT! Jesus said so, himself.

Titus also says to "REJECT a divisive man after the first and second admonition, knowing that such a person is warped and sinning, being self-condemned."

What is sin? TRANSGRESSION OF THE LAW! The person aguing AGAINST keeping God's commandments, is the one who is warped and SINNING. A true believer instinctively knows that...

OF COURSE, we are to keep Gods' commandments.



There is nothing to argue about.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 259217


...till all is fulfilled.

It is fulfilled. The CROSS fulfiled them.

See what I mean? You say I am the "instrument of the Devil". That is the same thing as blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. I am a born again Christian. I don't say that you are "of the Devil". That would be darkness, that would not be loving. I don't judge you, because I don't think I have the righteousness in me to do so. My righteousness comes SOLELY from Christ. And that is why I would not point the finger at anyone else.

Maybe you could explain to me how it is that I am "warped an sinning"? I don't break any of the Ten Commandments, and in fact consider the Sabbath to be every day. Don't even watch television.

I've been married for 30 years, don't smoke or drink, work in a nursing home for the elderly, caring for them daily while I go to nursing school. You explain to me, what is it that is so sinful?

By their fruit you will know them. So tell me, what is this bad fruit you seem to think I have? Because if my father is the Devil, I would sure have some pretty terrible things going on, wouldn't you say?
"See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the basic principles of this world rather than on Christ." (Colossians 2:8)
Amishism

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07/01/2007 11:12 PM
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Re: Why sabbath keeping is necessary to receive salvation
Christians compromise with pagan “sun worship” practices and adopt “Sunday” as a day of rest: "Before the coming of Christ, all the Eastern nations performed divine worship with their faces turned to that part of the heavens where the sun displays his rising beams ... The Christian converts ... retained the ancient and universal custom of worshiping toward the east, which sprang from it." Mosheim's Ecclesiastical History, century ii, part ii, ch. iv, par. 7. "Sunday (Dies Solis, of the Roman calendar; 'day of the sun,' because it was dedicated to the sun), the first day of the week, was adopted by the early Christians as a day of worship." Schaff?Herzog Encyclopedia of Religious Knowledge, Art. "Sunday." "We all gather on the day of the sun ... on this same day Jesus Christ our Savior rose from the dead." From the "Church Father," St. Justin. Quoted in the New Official Catholic Catechism (1994), p. 524.


Constantine, Catholicism, sun worship and Sunday: In 312 A.D., prior to his pivotal victory over his rival Maxentius at the Battle of Milvian Bridge, Constantine became a “Christian” after claiming to see in broad daylight a vision of “a cross above the sun” with these words emblazoned, “in hoc signo vinces” (by this sign conquer”). After defeating his enemies and becoming Emperor of Rome, Constantine presided in full royal pomp over the "First Council of Nicea” in 325 A.D.


Many 5th-century Christians kept the Sabbath and Sunday: In spite of the rising popularity of Sunday sacredness, church historian Socrates Scholasticus (5th century) wrote: "For although almost all churches throughout the world celebrate the sacred mysteries [of the Lord's Supper] on the Sabbath of every week, yet the Christians of Alexandria and at Rome, on account of some ancient tradition, have ceased to do this." Socrates Scholasticus, Ecclesiastical History, Book 5, ch. 22. Another historian confirmed this, stating, "The people of Constantinople, and almost everywhere, assemble together on the Sabbath, as well as on the first day of the week, which custom is never observed at Rome or at Alexandria." Sozomen, Ecclesiastical History, Book 7, ch. 19. Thus even in the 5th century, Sabbath-keeping was universally prevalent (except in Rome and Alexandria), along with Sunday-keeping. Many Christians kept both days. But as the centuries wore on, Sunday-keeping grew in prominence, especially within Roman Catholic territories. Today, the majority of Christians observe Sunday, but the question remains, What does the Bible say?
Anonymous Coward
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07/01/2007 11:13 PM
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Re: Why sabbath keeping is necessary to receive salvation
Yes as Christians we should have the desire to be like Christ but remember that being a Christian doesn't rid us of the flesh. It's a battle each and every day to do the Lord's will or your own.


 Quoting: King James


Your responsibility is to nourish and yield to the inner new man and Christ life -- and to let the old man continue to wither and die by NEGLECTING it.

You have been crucified with Christ, but the decaying "old man" continues in its "afterglow" to exert an influence that will not be entirely eradicated until glorification.

The path to sanctification is to RECKON, in faith, on who you are in Christ, as declared by God step by step. Don't empower the old man by walking by sight, instead of by faith.
Anonymous Coward
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07/01/2007 11:13 PM
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Re: Why sabbath keeping is necessary to receive salvation
Challenge to all the religious leaders, theologians, and Bible students:

Give at least one Bible verse which proves that Christ or anyone of His disciples sanctioned the transfer of the holy Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday.































I rest my case.
Amishism

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07/01/2007 11:19 PM
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Re: Why sabbath keeping is necessary to receive salvation
Im just a casual obsever too..and ill say this...

To those who insists on KEEPING the law...according to what YOU believe..if you DONT keep the law you are doomed??

Right??

And according to the bible..."Those who keep the whole law and stuble in ONE POINT are GUILTY OF ALL.."..

So..for those "LAW" keepers...tell me...how many of you STILL have NOT hacked off your foreskins???...have NOT made yourselves cerimonially clean and all that other stuff..all 660 laws or so...that you DONT keep...

You constantly niggle over ONE law..like ANY good fuckung cult DOES..and BREAK THE FUCKING REST!!!Fucking hypocrites!!!

You are..according to what IVE read in the bible...just as bad as the fucking PHARISEES...straining at GNATS..and swollowing fucking CAMELS...and loading other down with loads to great to bear..namley their DOOM...and YOU selfrighteous elitist FUCKS wont lift a FINGER to help..instead you just load on MORE and MORE and MORE GULT..promising MORE and MORE and MORE DOOM...to all those NOT as stuck up and self fucking righteous as YOU lot are..


JUST LIKE THE FUCKING PHARISEES!!!


FUCKING DOOOOOMED!!!!..ALL of you...
 Quoting: THE DOOM

No we try and keep the whole of the law, this just reveals sin, otherwise how would we know when we were sinning in need of the saviour.
All the laws are equally important, but it is the fourth commandment where we find GODs authority, his title, his jurisdiction and by the pope changing that he is userping the authority of God the creator.

So the sabbath is a sign of God, or His seal, representing His authority as Creator. Now look at the 4th Commandment as found in Exodus.

Exo 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Exo 20:9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
Exo 20:10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Notice that we can find the seal of God in verse 11.
The name given: the Lord
His title: Creator
His domain: heaven and earth to include all inhabitants
Anonymous Coward
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07/01/2007 11:19 PM
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Re: Why sabbath keeping is necessary to receive salvation
Well, I am a casual observer of this thread, and I must say, the pro commandment keepers are totally burying the hollow logic of those who are "grace" only Chrisitans. Sure, it is grace that saves us, but it is BECAUSE we are saved, that we keep His commandments. What part of that, don't you rocket scientists don't get? LOL...

To the armchair bible scholar in the above quote, HERE is the BEST question...

Are we able to keep God's commandments by own OWN power and righteousness?

Of course not.

It is the Power that Jesus imparts unto us who are WILLING to be obedient to His commandments. If He can make a DAY Holy, He is able to make US holy.

Are you trying to tell me that we are COMMANDED to do the impossible?

Huh?

God COMMANDS us to do the impossible??


With God, ALL things are possible. Go now, and sin no more.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 259217



What you say "seems" right to the carnal mind. Obviously you do not understand the book of Romans, or the stated purpose of the law ... or have you even studied it?? Do you understand what rebirth and regeneration entail?

The things of God are foolishness to a carnal mind. Again: Christ does not empower you to "keep the law." He creates a new nature in you that is in conformity with righteousness on every level. The empowerment to manifest the imputed reality comes by looking to the Spirit ... not to the law.
Kay

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07/01/2007 11:19 PM
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Re: Why sabbath keeping is necessary to receive salvation
So we are free to break the commandments?

Heaven forbid!

You are a total liar. You misapply scripture, exactly as does the devil.


*************


You guys are so ridiculous!

The point is that it is CHRIST IN ME that gives victory over sin.

The point is that what may have been sin in that culture, may not be sin now.

The point is that what was NOT sin then, ie polygamy, and slavery, and many, many other laws, are NOT for today.

NOW, we have a new standard.

The new standard since CHRIST is to LOVE ONE ANOTHER, as I have proven again and again here.

NOW, the new standard is MUCH, MUCH HIGHER.


Do you think that your son can go out and rape a girl and then if he marries her all is OK? THAT WAS THE LAW back then. Barbaric, yes! But it was a BARBARIC time. That is simply how it was 4,000 years ago. For that time period, it was very progressive!

We don't do that now. God demands MORE of us, as we socially progress, as we, AS A GROUP OF HUMAN BEINGS, progressively become more like Christ as a people, more is demanded of us.

Your son will land in prison for quite some time. And, you will be held accountable for being such a horrible father/mother that he did such a thing.

Don't hang on to a law that was for a particular people for a particular time. Culture changes, God deals with us as we are. That is why Christianity is REAL. Because we are not locked into a time constraint as is some of the other religions that are false.

"In Him, we move and breathe and have our being."
"See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the basic principles of this world rather than on Christ." (Colossians 2:8)
Kay

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07/01/2007 11:23 PM
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Re: Why sabbath keeping is necessary to receive salvation

Challenge to all the religious leaders, theologians, and Bible students:

Give at least one Bible verse which proves that Christ or anyone of His disciples sanctioned the transfer of the holy Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday.


I have already posted Acts 15.

James, Paul and Peter said this:


"It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God.

20Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood.


THAT CHANGES EVERYTHING.

Here are the RULES FOR THE GENTILES, as dictated by James, the brother of the LORD, Paul and SIMON PETER.
"See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the basic principles of this world rather than on Christ." (Colossians 2:8)
Anonymous Coward
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Re: Why sabbath keeping is necessary to receive salvation
I still haven't heard a legitimate answer to the question:

SHOULD A CHRISITAN KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS, OR NOT?


A very simple and straight forward question. Stop dancing, and answer the question.

The answer is so simple and obvious, but those of you who continue to rebel against God's eternal law, REFUSE to answer.

Well, you WILL answer someday. Plain and simple.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 259217


YES!!! Todays nominal Christians should keep the Sabbath and ALL of the Torah.
Anonymous Coward
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07/01/2007 11:24 PM
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Re: Why sabbath keeping is necessary to receive salvation
It is the Power that Jesus imparts unto us who are WILLING to be obedient to His commandments. If He can make a DAY Holy, He is able to make US holy.

Are you trying to tell me that we are COMMANDED to do the impossible?

Huh?

God COMMANDS us to do the impossible??


With God, ALL things are possible. Go now, and sin no more.


Galatians 3
25 Now that faith has come, we are no longer under the supervision of the law.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 186930


Law in that verse is referring to the Talmud, not the Torah.
Anonymous Coward
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07/01/2007 11:25 PM
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Re: Why sabbath keeping is necessary to receive salvation
Challenge to all the religious leaders, theologians, and Bible students:

Give at least one Bible verse which proves that Christ or anyone of His disciples sanctioned the transfer of the holy Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday.


I have already posted Acts 15.

James, Paul and Peter said this:


"It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God.

20Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood.


THAT CHANGES EVERYTHING.

Here are the RULES FOR THE GENTILES, as dictated by James, the brother of the LORD, Paul and SIMON PETER.
 Quoting: Kay


There is NO mention of the Sabbath in that verse.

Do NOT add or take away from Gods' word so that you can do Gods' word. Deut. 4:2. 12:32 & Prov. 30:6.
Anonymous Coward
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07/01/2007 11:27 PM
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Re: Why sabbath keeping is necessary to receive salvation
I still haven't heard a legitimate answer to the question:

SHOULD A CHRISITAN KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS, OR NOT?


A very simple and straight forward question. Stop dancing, and answer the question.

The answer is so simple and obvious, but those of you who continue to rebel against God's eternal law, REFUSE to answer.

Well, you WILL answer someday. Plain and simple.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 259217


No, as plain as he could make it, Paul stated that the righteousness of God cannot be fulfilled by "keeping" or attempting to "keep: the torah law.

Phil 3:9: "And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith."

Mr. pharisee, get out your concordance and do a word study on "righteousness" in the epistles. Maybe the truth will chisel a slight opening in you thick coat of egoic armor that is blind to the righteousness of God.

Trying to keep the law and thus wedding yourself to it only makes you a sinner! It's so ironic, it's almost funny.
Kay

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07/01/2007 11:29 PM
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Re: Why sabbath keeping is necessary to receive salvation
I still haven't heard a legitimate answer to the question:

SHOULD A CHRISITAN KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS, OR NOT?


A very simple and straight forward question. Stop dancing, and answer the question.

The answer is so simple and obvious, but those of you who continue to rebel against God's eternal law, REFUSE to answer.

Well, you WILL answer someday. Plain and simple.


YES!!! Todays nominal Christians should keep the Sabbath and ALL of the Torah.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 259835



NO!!! We live by faith. Christ has changed the formula so to speak. God hates sin, it doesn't mean that we indulge in sin.

The point is that we follow a path that the LORD has created for us ahead of time. It is in following this path that we find out challenges. We do not please GOD by simply refraining from sinning. We please GOD by living by faith. By recognizing the PATH that He has created for us and walking in it.

As we walk in His will for our lives, in His path, then we will not have the same desires, we will not be slaves to sin, we will have the victory over the day to day struggles that bind us. As we exercise our faith, we have more. This is the basis for the parables Jesus taught, He who has will be given more.

THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A "NOMINAL" CHRISTIAN.

You belong to HIM, you are bought with a price.
"See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the basic principles of this world rather than on Christ." (Colossians 2:8)
Anonymous Coward
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07/01/2007 11:31 PM
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Re: Why sabbath keeping is necessary to receive salvation
Im just a casual obsever too..and ill say this...


 Quoting: THE DOOM


You have a way with words ...! Maybe your unvarnished straight talk will break through to a few hard heads ...
Kay

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07/01/2007 11:36 PM
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Re: Why sabbath keeping is necessary to receive salvation
Challenge to all the religious leaders, theologians, and Bible students:

Give at least one Bible verse which proves that Christ or anyone of His disciples sanctioned the transfer of the holy Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday.


I have already posted Acts 15.

James, Paul and Peter said this:


"It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God.

20Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood.


THAT CHANGES EVERYTHING.

Here are the RULES FOR THE GENTILES, as dictated by James, the brother of the LORD, Paul and SIMON PETER.


There is NO mention of the Sabbath in that verse.

Do NOT add or take away from Gods' word so that you can do Gods' word. Deut. 4:2. 12:32 & Prov. 30:6.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 259835



Excuse me, it specifically states that the ONLY things that Gentiles need to be concerned about at these: Sexual immorality, food polluted by idols, meat of strangled animals and do not drink blood.

I have already posted the rest of this.

The situation was that there were JUDAIZERS who were running around telling the new disciples that they HAD TO FOLLOW THE TORAH.

So, the original church, with Peter, James and Paul the JERUSALEM church, got together and had a council.



***************

Acts 15:

5Then some of the believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees stood up and said, "The Gentiles must be circumcised and required to obey the law of Moses."

6The apostles and elders met to consider this question.

7After much discussion, Peter got up and addressed them: "Brothers, you know that some time ago God made a choice among you that the Gentiles might hear from my lips the message of the gospel and believe. 8God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did to us. 9He made no distinction between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith.

10Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of the disciples a yoke that neither we nor our fathers have been able to bear? 11No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are."



CAN'T YOU READ??????? It is PRECISELY what we are discussing! The early church already DISCUSSED this, and judged it.

They called following Moses' law a "yoke that neither we nor our fathers have been able to bear".

The answer to whether or not the church should follow the law of Moses is a RESOUNDING 'NO!"
"See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the basic principles of this world rather than on Christ." (Colossians 2:8)
Anonymous Coward
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07/01/2007 11:38 PM
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Re: Why sabbath keeping is necessary to receive salvation
I'm not a Gentile!! I'm an Israelite!! I'm a Norwegian/Irish mix. I'm of the tribe of Benjamin & Dan.

If you an Israelite, you are obligated to keep the Law.

There are over 1.5 BILLION Israelites on this planet. 99% of them don't know it.

There are over 500 million Jews in this world. 99% of them don't know it.





GLP