Only idiots join the military?

Why didn't you stay in the military?

The civilian world.......is different.

I'm in my element.

Military programming doesn't always work in the civilian Constitutional World of NONCONFORMISTS WHO INVOKE LIBERTY AS A CAUSE AND LEGAL FRAMEWORK (that has been subverted by the Military Police STate).

That's my beef: "stay the fuck back in your safe military world" and "enjoy your chosen way of life, and stay out of my life with your surveillance tactics".

That's my beef: "Don't Tread on Me".

Ahem.......the civilian world was supposed to be different (Posse Comitatus Act).......now........it is a militarized social milieu.....and there is little "we" are gonna do about that.

I agree in that his personal actions are for himself alone.

I also agree the system as it is, is a corrupt immoral mechanization.

However, the global economic system as it stands is completely interconnected. You could call it the economic equivalent of a Bismarckian web.

When you buy any good, when you go to your job, etc. etc. you are apart of it.

Now, that being said, you sound as if you have limited your global "footprint"

The point I was trying to make is that this interconnectedness causes a subtle hidden participation in the actions which justify a weapons expert being paid 200k a year.

I don't hold you personally accountable, nor the man working as a weapons expert. The truth is that it's very frustrating, but throwing daggers at the former ranger is like a doctor treating a symptom instead of a disease.

I think you and I can find some common ground on this. The funny thing is many of the veterans and DOD employees have seen and are working against some of the injustices you speak of now. It's a melting pot just like the US.

Why do you think so many senior officers and enlisted are being retired early?

Now, the disease itself. The key here is starvation. That collapse must occur in order for there to be a rebirth. It is in the interest of all of us, that those who are capable of executing force are either not involved, or have strong kinship with the people. Alienating them, and putting yourself against them could serve against these interests.

In the meantime, try to put yourself in the shoes of some of these folks working/serving in the military. They are as good/evil as every person you'd find in society, and just as diverse. Perhaps if some of your ideas were presented to them in a less adversarial fashion we could start to see real change form within the ranks of the senior leadership of the military and this country. There's a hint of it now, and I really do hope it grows.

People who join are either too dumb to realize that they are subjecting themselves as pawns to cowardly, white-collar masters, or they haven't been 'awakened' to what's actually going on in the real world, or they know and don't care cause they have a hard-on for war and getting to use some cool gear.

Any of the above type of people are the type of people are prefer not to hang with.

My son is extremely smart and graduated high school with a GPA of 3.9. Very wise for his age but still has the raging hormones and lust for cool gear. As a junior in HS he asked me if a career as a fighter pilot would be possible for him. I responded, "You are definitely intelligent enough to achieve that goal.....but how would you feel laying in bed at night knowing that you could have dropped payloads on innocent people because our government wasn't protecting our nation from invasion, but rather apparently at war for other shady monetary reasons?"

He looked at me for a couple of seconds as his wisdom over-rid his hormones and he agreed that anything less than foreign invasion did not merit going to war.

Also, all his buddies are now under a burden of debt at college and being taught by liberal lunatics.

My son elected to head to Alaska and work as a deckhand on a commercial fishing boat through connections i had from being a fishing captain there years ago.

They will slaughter any civilian if they are ordered to do so.

Cops have killed more civilians than the terrorist threat.

They will GANG STALK any targeted individual.

THEY WILL VIOLATE ANY TARGETED INDIVIDUAL'S CIVIL LIBERTIES and will engage in "battlefield tactics" extrajudicially...with no fear of being criminally responsible for any deviation from acceptible normative behavior.

Make no mistake................the military and copland...follows orders rather well (regardless of whether those orders are legitimate or not).

Stanley Milgrim's Obedience to Authority experiment: everyone is susceptible to "the agentic state" of irresponsibility.

[link to en.wikipedia.org]

The Milgram experiment on obedience to authority figures was a series of social psychology experiments conducted by Yale University psychologist Stanley Milgram, which measured the willingness of study participants to obey an authority figure who instructed them to perform acts that conflicted with their personal conscience. Milgram first described his research in 1963 in an article published in the Journal of Abnormal and Social Psychology,[1] and later discussed his findings in greater depth in his 1974 book, Obedience to Authority: An Experimental View.[2]

The experiments began in July 1961, three months after the start of the trial of German Nazi war criminal Adolf Eichmann in Jerusalem. Milgram devised his psychological study to answer the popular question at that particular time: "Could it be that Eichmann and his million accomplices in the Holocaust were just following orders? Could we call them all accomplices?"[3]

The experiments have been repeated many times in the following years with consistent results within differing societies, although not with the same percentages across the globe.[4] The experiments were also controversial, and considered by some scientists to be unethical and physically or psychologically abusive. Psychologist Diana Baumrind considered the experiment "harmful because it may cause permanent psychological damage and cause people to be less trusting in the future."[5]



NOTE: other researchers thought it was abusive and unfair to play this kind of game on research subjects? IMAGINE HOW THE COPS AND SOLDIERS FEEL......when......the orders and duty is not part of an experiment? Imagine how soldiers feel about war? The experiment involved what appeared to be electric shocks given to those who could not answer a question correctly ("what is the capital of South Dakota?").

Imagine...how drone operators feel?

What about SATELITE TORTURE using "silent weapons" for secret wars on dissent?

Is it unethical and wrong....to order torture of US citizens when there is no proof that "there was a legitimate threat" and "there is no proof that any info was requested, that was tied to the assault of the target?"

poor old me didn't have any choice ,I was drafted in 1968 ,and didn't have the money to go to college ,I was lucky a lot of people I knew died in Vietman

Copland (ex military) and the US Intel Comm....will have to admit: NEOCONS AND TREASONOUS RASCALS WILL HAVE TO BE DETAINED AND FORCED TO ADMIT THE TRUTH OF THEIR FRAUD AND CRIMINALITY.

And.....seize profits of war, give to wounded vets and families who got a triangle shaped flag: VICTORY.

Military shrink M. Scott Peck......lamented the fact that shrinks did not have a body of work to review concerning the concept of EVIL.

So..he studied and wrote a book: PEOPLE OF THE LIE: the hope for healing human evil

Ernest Becker...also added to his Pulitizer Prize winning book "Denial of Death"...with his last book, "Escape From Evil".

Both works...offer food for thought.

[link to sutherlandsalute.blogspot.com]

[link to sutherlandsalute.blogspot.com]

They (military) will follow orders.

Milgrim's Obedience to Authority experiment:

Results: ...."Before conducting the experiment, Milgram polled fourteen Yale University senior-year psychology majors to predict the behavior of 100 hypothetical teachers. All of the poll respondents believed that only a very small fraction of teachers (the range was from zero to 3 out of 100, with an average of 1.2) would be prepared to inflict the maximum voltage.

Milgram also informally polled his colleagues and found that they, too, believed very few subjects would progress beyond a very strong shock.[1]

Milgram also polled forty psychiatrists from a medical school and they believed that by the tenth shock, when the victim demands to be free, most subjects would stop the experiment. They predicted that by the 300 volt shock, when the victim refuses to answer, only 3.73 percent of the subjects would still continue and they believed that "only a little over one-tenth of one percent of the subjects would administer the highest shock on the board."[6]


In Milgram's first set of experiments, 65 percent (26 of 40)[1] of experiment participants administered the experiment's final massive 450-volt shock, though many were very uncomfortable doing so; at some point, every participant paused and questioned the experiment; some said they would refund the money they were paid for participating in the experiment. Throughout the experiment, subjects displayed varying degrees of tension and stress. Subjects were sweating, trembling, stuttering, biting their lips, groaning, digging their fingernails into their skin, and some were even having nervous laughing fits or seizures"...


Imagine how young soldiers feel about DRONE STRIKES (similar but not exactly like Milgrim's lab set up)?

Who administers the SATELITE TORTURE used on me.....because John Brennan didn't like my attitude online, or a blog post?

The torture orders used on me......were open ended...within hours, the "sleep deprivation" was used to disrupt deep REM dream states? No way...NCTC was in the loop at that hour?

Open ended torture orders using SATELITE TORTURE tech?

Free speach.......is impotent anyway......so why retaliate against the target?

NONCONFORMITY is policed using DARPA weapons...on top of "remote neural monitoring" to read my thoughts?

You can't blame them really. The mind control and indoctrination from birth into the CULTure of flag waving retards who think they are free. So if they are conditioned this way, and presented with a never ending stream of boogey men, its not their fault, in fact they think they are doing good.

The sad part comes when those hat have given their lives wake up and discover the lies. That this country is a 1 party fascist slave system, a prison with invisible fences, and that a single hand moves the world and nation against nation purposefully and with cold calculation. To realize their sacrifice went to nothing but a scam, their whole lives and beliefs are based on lies. This is a difficult awakening, for the few that manage to wake up.

Joining a group...seems to be ontological (human).

Safety in a group.

Safe from what?

Safe from aloneness, or guilt...or...safe from existential thoughts of doom, mortality, social rank...being one upped with envy occurring naturally and unconsciously?

Ernest Becker "Escape From Evil":

...."The role of guilt... another central fact of social life. “Guilt is a feeling of being blocked, limited, transcended, without knowing why...” (33). One can feel guilt when he “...has unintended consequences on others” (34). We feel guilt when we haven’t fulfilled our potential... when we weren’t heroic enough... and we feel guilt because we stick out too much. ...

But... “If guilt is the experience of fear and powerlessness, then immersing oneself in a group is one way of actively defeating it: groups alone can make big surplus, can generate extravagant power in the form of large harvests, the capture of dangerous animals and many of them, the manufacture of splendid and intricate items based on sophisticated techniques, etc.

From the beginning, the group has represented big power, big victory, much life” ......
_________________________________________________________

When your of age to join military or copland.......having access to technology, weapons, training....is empowering.

Social rank and duties.......also empowering.

People need affirmation...power.

Military recruiting ads...show cause...that a young man can "see the world" and "join a team" that plays with boats, planes, trucks, guns, rockets, missiles, tanks, choppers, computers...etc...in exotic locations (a working vacation?).

With GI bill.....young men can also "join the group" and also...later, pave the way for Joe College...as well.

You get it all in uniform:

--travel
--safety of group
--weapons
--training
--school
--physical fitness
--patriotism
--self esteem
--escape from other dubious decisions or paths

From Ernest Becker's "Escape From Evil":


..."The expansion of self-feeling in nature can come about in many different ways, especially when we get to the human level of complexity. Man can expand his self-feeling not only by physical incorporation but by any kind of triumph or demonstration of his own excellence.

He expands his organization in complexity by games, puzzles, riddles, mental tricks of all types; by boasting about his achievements, taunting and humiliating his adversaries, or torturing and killing them. Anything that reduces the other organism and adds to one’s own size and importance is a direct way to gain self-feeling; it is a natural development out of the simple incorporation and fighting behaviour of lower organisms”

[link to sutherlandsalute.blogspot.com]

YOU are the idiot.

People that think like this OP are shameful and disgusting.

Absolutely disgusting.

You military bashing retards always look for a new opportunity to spout your bullshit.

Even on 6 year old threads.

No it's only Idiot countries who force their citizens to join. People should be allowed a choice. It would be interesting to see how many countries still actually run this way...look America, murder is in your culture, there is no escape. Good luck with that!

agree with OP 100%

From Ernest Becker "Escape From Evil":

..."
Society, then is a stage for continuous contest for the forcing of self-feeling... for competition, for the playing of “intricate games of one-upmanship.” However, primitive society was also organized in thousands of ways (as ours is, I might add) with elaborate rules for protecting ourselves against social damage and deflation... against losing face. People “impart to one another the daily sense of importance that each needs...” (12). We acknowledge others in many ways in daily life. Our own rituals, however, as contrasted with those of the primitive, are decadent and lacking in cosmic connection... (16)."
________________________________________________________

One ritual we all use...is scapegoating (war on terror).

Scapegoating...finding the enemy...and punishing him, is what soldiers are coerced into accepting. War becomes a ritual sacrifice.
__________________________________________________________

..."Sacrifice (human sacrifice of the enemy) stands at the centre of ritual in primitive life. “In order to control nature, man must drive away evil-sickness and death. And so he must overcome hostile demons and hostile forces. If he makes a slip in the ritual, it gives power to the demons. The ritual triumph is winning of the contest with evil” (20).

The contests abounded where one had to prove oneself worthy and thus a worthy warrior against evil. The act of sacrifice established a footing in the invisible dimension of reality; this permitted the sacrifice to build a divine body, a mystical, essential self that had superhuman powers”...
____________________________________________________

The military or copland game...is all about heroism and similar to primitive contests...becoming rituals loaded with meaning. War is a ritual to avoid anxiety from mortality. If you dominate, the scapegoat takes the pain of living with existential fear of mortality? We need more perps in copland...and more suspected terrorists because "we need to deal with our fear of death".
_______________________________________________________

..." Immortality striving is a universal principle according to Rank, “firmly anchored in each individual person...; it was present in each culture, no matter how varied its beliefs might seem, or how much mankind itself seemed to change from epoch to epoch” (64).

Beliefs varied, but “What was fixed was the principle of a ‘dominant immortality-ideology of self-perpetuation to which he gives his allegiance; this gives his life the only abiding significance it can have. No wonder men go into a rage over fine points of belief: if your adversary wins the argument about truth, you die.".....
_______________________________________________________

This divisive thread...creates a challenge to socially acceptible "dominant immortality-ideologies" (Conformity vs NonConformity...or Military Service vs Civilian Freedom).

These opinions reflect the necessary allegiance to one's chosen ideology (Service vs Civilian life).

If you lose this debate about truth...you die or...more likely, "your ability to negotiate life" becomes questionable creating anxiety, doubt, guilt...requiring, a scapegoat.

If everyone is right.....how come no one is wrong?
______________________________________________________

I'm in Afghanistan for the Army right now. Enjoying your freedom of speech? nice and secure in your hometown? the military is our defense, otherwise someone would just take us over and we would be doing things there way, no freedom!You can always leave!

Are you serious? Do you have any idea what you are talking about?
I believe you have daddy issues, and your friends were not the brightest apples in the barrel.

Ernest Becker "Escape From Evil":

..."“Rank observed. ‘The death fear of the ego is lessened by the killing, the sacrifice, of the other; through the death of the other, one buys oneself free from the penalty of dying, of being killed.’ No wonder men are addicted to war...

Freud saw that when it comes to enemies and strangers, the ego can consign them to the limbo of death without even a second thought” (109). There is a problem, however, in war: what we might call today “friendly fire” and casualties amongst our own. This would seem to make war irrational... but, as Freud found, “Not only enemies but even friends and loved ones are fair fuel for our own perpetuation...This is the price of our natural animal narcissism; very few of us, if pressured, would be unwilling to sacrifice someone else in our place”

"“The exception to this is of course the hero. We admire him precisely because he is willing to give his life for others instead of taking theirs for his. Heroism is an unusual reversal of routine values, and it is another thing that makes war so uplifting.

As mankind has long known: war is ritual for the emergence of heroes, and so for the transmutation of common selfish values” (109). However, “...the logic of killing others to affirm our own life unlocks much that puzzles us in history, much that with our modern mind we seem unable to comprehend, such as the Roman arena games”

We are heartened by the controlled display of dying... and the realization of our own escape from the same fate. The logic of sacrifice and scapegoating explain all forms of butchery and feuds and hatreds...

[And] “In times of peace, without an external enemy, the fear that feeds war tends to find its outlet within the society, in the hatred between classes and races, in the everyday violence of crime, of automobile accidents and even the self-violence of suicide” (114).

[And more can be said, of course... about the myriad ways in which we diminish others or “put them down” so that we can stand over them in self-righteous satisfaction."...
_________________________________________________________

War is a ritual for the emergence of heroes.

These heroes reverse routine and expected selfish values demonstrating altruistic values (facing the fear so others don't have to).

Without an external enemy,the fear that feeds bogus wars...finds an outlet in racism, lynching, and class conflict like Occupy Movement (focusing on banker's greed).

Without war, no distractions to lead us from realizing that THE POWER CONTROL GROUP has ripped us off.

All of us...cops, soldiers...face the consequences of not REMOVING AND IDENTIFYING THE POWER CONTROL GROUP who ripped us off.

Pro military always talk about Defense.

Our military seems to be OFFENSIVE.

The weapons are "Offensive weapons".

We are in foreign lands.......who did not attack us.

Afghanistan....is about Heroin profits.

Taliban had eradicated Heroin poppies...our military made sure that racket is up and running (Heroin per pound, is more valuable then gold).

We were attacked by false flag operators who were in our own Government...who benefit from the planned spending to fight that war.

War on Terror was born from false flag...treason.

A con.

A scam to distract us...while they looted the treasury.

We cannot afford the ritual sacrificial scam...the scapegoating of muslims....and scapegoating of US citizens.

_______________________________________________________

Ernest Becker "Escape From Evil":

..."The role of social science, then, according to Becker, is the “...revelation of the lie... and the assessment of how high are the costs of this lie” (125). But Becker goes even further. He states that the role of social science is also to conceive of alternatives to the destructive exploitation of the fears of all of us in the name of an impossible immortality (126).

The ultimate paradox of human life is that “...evil comes from man’s urge to heroic victory over evil” (136).

“The individual gives himself to the group because of his desire to share in its immortality; we must say, even, that he is willing to die in order not to die”

“Men kill lavishly out of the sublime joy of heroic triumph over evil. Voila tout” (141).“...man is fated... to consider this earth as a theatre for heroism, and his life as a vehicle for heroic acts which aim precisely to transcend evil. Each person wants to have his life make a difference in the life of mankind, contribute in some way toward securing and furthering that life, make it in some ways less vulnerable, more durable.

To be a true hero is to triumph over disease, want, death. One knows that his life has had vital human meaning if it has been able to bring real benefits to the life of mankind. And so men have always honoured their heroes, especially in religion, medicine, science, diplomacy, and war...

From Constantine and Christ to Churchill and De Gaulle, men have called their heroes ‘saviours’ in the literal sense those who have delivered them from the evil of the termination of life, either of their own immediate lives or of the duration of their people even more, by his own death the hero secures the lives of others, and so the greatest heroic sacrifice, as Fraser taught us, is the sacrifice of the god for his people... The giants died to secure mankind; buy their blood we are saved. It is almost pathetically logical how man the supremely vulnerable animal developed the cult of the heroic..."

[link to sutherlandsalute.blogspot.com]

________________________________________________

Heroism leads to the cult of the hero...a local godlike savior. That's what a soldier or cop is: a local diety.

The greatest heroic sacrifice is the sacrifice of this local Godlike person. We are stuck in the cycle of war...because of irrational fears.

Stop posting and re-posting this stupid ass shit.

Don't you have newspapers to deliver or cars to wash?

Do any of you brainwashed enlisted dooshbags want to acknowledge general smedley butler, or the fact that the USA currently has 17 TRILLION dollars worth of debt, or the millions of illegal aliens that are sucking private sector taxpayers dry?

Naaa, you tards don't live in reality. You get your paycheck and keep parrotting the same old fight for freedom bullshit cause it's all you've been programmed to believe.

Killing random people who practice a religion other than christianity or judism is not keeping any American "free".

Enlisted = fucking losers

Two honor role sons in Army. Both seargents now. Spent five weeks in Fort Bliss. My soldiers treated me (as army mom) with utmost respect. None took drugs. Very good men. You fail.

A lot of people join the military under deception. They believe the bullshit. They believe they are honorable men and women defending their country. They don't realise all wars are engineered. They don't realise they are pawns in a game. They are also legalised murderers.

God bless you soldier! Proud of you. Son was in Afghan last year. Couple very close calls. Will keep you in my prayers.
Love, Army mom

Get back to the fryer, they are burning.

Or do you just take welfare for your chunk of the 17 trillion?

^ So you don't know who Gen. Smedley Butler is? You refuse to acknowledge him and his honesty about how the trash US fed gov operates?

Anything of intelligence to add to the thread?

Yeah keep killing innocent muslims, it's really keeping me "free" as you military idiots help rack up billions of dollars that future generations will be forced to pay back.

Enlisted = shit for brains

They will teach you "Not" to think.

you will follow orders without running it through your own mind.

Soldier= Human Robot

I did my 20 years, learned several valuable trades, retired at 42, and now receive $3200 every month plus health benefits.

And I'm the idiot, huh?

But, as an after thought, I wouldn't join now under obama for any amount of money.

There's no way I'm going to serve under someone I can't respect.

Last Edited by Mike Ehrmantraut on 12/08/2013 01:39 PM

Anyone who joins the military when their country is not under attack does so because they are typically of a lowly mind seeking to be guided by others due to their limited abilities.

So, yes only an idiot would join the military.

Killing to satisfy the oligarks throne is the job of idiots and cowards.