| | | Page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 | EARTH'S AXIS TILT INCREASED BY AN ADDITIONAL 26 DEGREES
| Menow
User ID: 405501
 United States
4/27/2009 8:26 PM | | Re: EARTH'S AXIS TILT INCREASED BY AN ADDITIONAL 26 DEGREES | Quote |
Even the cwaziest claims need to be examined.
eg:
Rocks do fall from the sky.
True some people have exagerated and even seemingly insane claims, but remember the US Government claims Arabs-in-caves managed to arrange the military standdown on 09/11/01
and that
NORAD, whose radar sees cars on freeways and softball sized objects in orbit
was somehow unable to track & intercept four large jumbo jets that day.
Compared to that whopper of a lie a mere 26 degree tilt is a minor exageration.
What I mostly appreciate is reading some people who seem absolutely obsessed with making everyone conform to their own beliefs.
:gturppcrnr: Quoting: himself
Idiot's rule #43: When lost for any real argument, invoke 911. |
| Menow
User ID: 405501
United States
4/27/2009 8:35 PM | | Re: EARTH'S AXIS TILT INCREASED BY AN ADDITIONAL 26 DEGREES | Quote |
You said that astronomers can be made to say anything. Now you say that no one would listen. Can't make up your mind which foolish obtuse notion you want to push? There are THOUSANDS of astronomers, of all types, posting on DOZENS of astronomy forums across the internet. So are they somehow kept from posting what they think and see or is everyone reading what they say somehow made to not respond?
Your entire premise is just downright stupid.
*****************************************************
Listening and Saying something are two separate functions just like walking and chewing gum something I'm sure you have trouble doing. Quoting: Win lose or Draw 664786
Can't offer anything without cutting me down first?
You suppose naively that because of the numbers that someone on his own with no support from his fellow colleagues who have all by this time been told by the powers that be, Quoting: Win lose or Draw 664786
BZZT! ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLL of them? You are truly paranoid. Do you have ANY idea how many amatuer astronomers there are who have zero affiliation with any government agencies?
that this is a matter of national security and to keep their mouths shut for fear of loss of their jobs, credibility, and maybe bodily harm. Quoting: Win lose or Draw 664786
See above.
You think they are going to have a chance to put this stuff out to the public via Normal Channels. You’re a pretty smart guy do you really believe the NSA, CIA, and other agencies do not monitor the NET. Quoting: Win lose or Draw 664786
So you think they filter all posts to astronomy forums? Paranoid much?
Quoting: Win lose or Draw 664786
Yeah. Pretty much.
Is it all a fake, even the satellite images? Quoting: Win lose or Draw 664786
No, just the analysis of them.
[ link to www.divulgence.net]
Do you believe that our governments do not have secrets that they don’t knowingly keep things from the public to control and manipulate the masses?
No connection to the impossibly perfect coverup you are suggesting.
That our politicians and scientist (astronomers included) always tell us the truth about such things? Quoting: Win lose or Draw 664786
Obtuse, meaningless argument. See above. It simply doesn't follow from what you are saying that all astronomers can be controlled.
The record of our history bears out that most educated, noble blue blood; elite scum despises the common people. They look down on them as cattle to be herded to the slaughter just because they believe they have the right and they do have the power to do so. This is really my point. I’m sure to you this is all this is “just downright stupid” also.
Pretty much. |
| himself
User ID: 666347
United States
4/28/2009 2:28 AM | | Re: EARTH'S AXIS TILT INCREASED BY AN ADDITIONAL 26 DEGREES | Quote |
American Geophysical Union
26 June 2006
... Earth's short-term
wobbling. Like a spinning top, Earth wobbles as it rotates on its axis. In fact, it displays many different wobbling motions, ranging in period from a few minutes to billions of years. Some of these are well studied, like the Chandler wobble of 433 days and the annual wobble, which together can tilt Earth's axis up to 10 meters
[30 feet] from its nominal center. Quoting:
Merely two factors contributing to earth's wobble can cause an extended deviation of 10 meters. Someone who notices a temporary deviation might just have not had his head up his ass at the time.
Hung up obsessionally on browbeating others into parroting your own opinions anyone? (example below)
Unable to see the forest for the trees?
eg: "That can't be a pine forest! I see a few oaks among those thousands of pines."
Earth wobbles, all the time.
Sometimes wobble factors cancel each other out and the wobble becomes less than a square yard at the pole.
Other times the wobbles add together and earth has a TEMPORARY deviation which might be noticed by someone who is looking at the time. Quoting: Me
That is absolutely false. All of the known tiny wobbles do not add up to anywhere NEAR enough to be observed without sophisticated equipment. Quoting: Menow 405501
Not observed by YOU menow, but where is your head when those temporary wobbles occur. I can guess.
YOU are obviously watching, with your sophisticated equipment, to track the earth's tilt ALL THE TIME and have no time to post on the internet.
Or is your desire to browbeat everyone into parroting your beliefs so strong you only think you are payin gattention All THE TIME even though you are tapping away on a keyboard and obviously NOT tracking the earth's tilt.
I've posted links many times to the professional astronomers who watch the earth's tilt ALL the time. Quoting: Me
"Watch" it"? Watch it with what, their EYES?? Quoting: Menow 405501
Mayans, Incas, Babylonians, Astecs, Egyptians used their eyes and made some observations confirmed only after modern telescopes were invented.
You are free to disagree with them.
I'd druther promote discussion, and give everyone respect for their opinions. Quoting: Me
Disagree with them about what? You are claiming that they DON'T use sophisticated equipment to see it?? Link please. Quoting: Menow 405501
I am claiming that the only professioals who constantly moniter earth's tilt cail earth wobbles all the time with many factors contributing. But you are unwilling or incapable of visiting links to International Earth Rotation and Reference Systems Service (which)
Works to maintain the International Celestial Reference System and Frame, and the International Terrestrial Reference System and Frame
IERS
Only professional astronomer I ever knew personally discovered Pluto./quote]
quote:Menow 405501]
Wasn't that Percival Lowell? You knew him?? Your point? Quoting: Me
quote:Me]
Never thought to ask him if professionals should reject amateurs' honest observations,
but he did once point out that Lowell, was both professional, expert and wrong./quote]
Huh? I thought the "he" WAS Lowell. What was he allegedly wrong about and what does this have to do with your claim that the normal tiny Earth wobbles can add up to be seen without sophisticated equipment? Quoting: Menow 405501
The point YOU made with that inane comment is that you are incapable or reading a post and understanding simple english. Read the bold above that you were incapable of comprehending before and try again.
Or perhaps you need sophisticated equipment?
Clyde Tombaugh was a visiting lecturer at Griffith Park Observatory, during which time we had a few conversations between his lectures.
Last Edited by himself on 4/28/2009 at 3:33 AM |
| nomuse (NLI)
User ID: 660770
United States
4/28/2009 3:00 AM | | Re: EARTH'S AXIS TILT INCREASED BY AN ADDITIONAL 26 DEGREES | Quote |
You know, I'd make a detailed reply, but I think I'll wait until you've figured out the "quote" function. |
| himself
User ID: 666347
United States
4/28/2009 3:36 AM | | Re: EARTH'S AXIS TILT INCREASED BY AN ADDITIONAL 26 DEGREES | Quote |
You know, I'd make a detailed reply, but I think I'll wait until you've figured out the "quote" function. Quoting: nomuse (NLI) 660770
So I had to edit to replace a missing "[" and that makes your unsourced unproven arguments valid, how?
Unable to see the forest for the trees?
eg: "That can't be a pine forest! I see a few oaks among those thousands of pines."
btw, nomuse (NLI) 660770,
You've repeatedly proven you can't make a detailed reply.
Last Edited by himself on 4/28/2009 at 3:37 AM |
| nomuse (NLI)
User ID: 660770
United States
4/28/2009 3:39 AM | | Re: EARTH'S AXIS TILT INCREASED BY AN ADDITIONAL 26 DEGREES | Quote |
No, I'm just saying it's late, I'm lazy, and you haven't given anything new for pages.
So why should I work hard to decipher a post with a format error? With any luck you'll make a new one that will make more sense. With a lot of luck, you'll even put some thought into it. Then it might be worth a full reply. |
| Menow
User ID: 405501
United States
4/28/2009 9:47 AM | | Re: EARTH'S AXIS TILT INCREASED BY AN ADDITIONAL 26 DEGREES | Quote |
American Geophysical Union
26 June 2006
... Earth's short-term
wobbling. Like a spinning top, Earth wobbles as it rotates on its axis. In fact, it displays many different wobbling motions, ranging in period from a few minutes to billions of years. Some of these are well studied, like the Chandler wobble of 433 days and the annual wobble, which together can tilt Earth's axis up to 10 meters
[30 feet] from its nominal center.
Merely two factors contributing to earth's wobble can cause an extended deviation of 10 meters. Someone who notices a temporary deviation might just have not had his head up his ass at the time.
Hung up obsessionally on browbeating others into parroting your own opinions anyone? (example below)
Unable to see the forest for the trees?
eg: "That can't be a pine forest! I see a few oaks among those thousands of pines."
Earth wobbles, all the time.
Sometimes wobble factors cancel each other out and the wobble becomes less than a square yard at the pole.
Other times the wobbles add together and earth has a TEMPORARY deviation which might be noticed by someone who is looking at the time.
That is absolutely false. All of the known tiny wobbles do not add up to anywhere NEAR enough to be observed without sophisticated equipment.
Not observed by YOU menow, but where is your head when those temporary wobbles occur. I can guess.
YOU are obviously watching, with your sophisticated equipment, to track the earth's tilt ALL THE TIME and have no time to post on the internet.
Or is your desire to browbeat everyone into parroting your beliefs so strong you only think you are payin gattention All THE TIME even though you are tapping away on a keyboard and obviously NOT tracking the earth's tilt.
I've posted links many times to the professional astronomers who watch the earth's tilt ALL the time.
"Watch" it"? Watch it with what, their EYES??
Mayans, Incas, Babylonians, Astecs, Egyptians used their eyes and made some observations confirmed only after modern telescopes were invented.
You are free to disagree with them.
I'd druther promote discussion, and give everyone respect for their opinions.
Disagree with them about what? You are claiming that they DON'T use sophisticated equipment to see it?? Link please.
I am claiming that the only professioals who constantly moniter earth's tilt cail earth wobbles all the time with many factors contributing. But you are unwilling or incapable of visiting links to International Earth Rotation and Reference Systems Service (which)
Works to maintain the International Celestial Reference System and Frame, and the International Terrestrial Reference System and Frame
IERS
Only professional astronomer I ever knew personally discovered Pluto./quote]
quote:Menow 405501]
Wasn't that Percival Lowell? You knew him?? Your point?
quote:Me]
Never thought to ask him if professionals should reject amateurs' honest observations,
but he did once point out that Lowell, was both professional, expert and wrong./quote]
Huh? I thought the "he" WAS Lowell. What was he allegedly wrong about and what does this have to do with your claim that the normal tiny Earth wobbles can add up to be seen without sophisticated equipment?
The point YOU made with that inane comment is that you are incapable or reading a post and understanding simple english. Read the bold above that you were incapable of comprehending before and try again.
Or perhaps you need sophisticated equipment?
Clyde Tombaugh was a visiting lecturer at Griffith Park Observatory, during which time we had a few conversations between his lectures. Quoting: himself
Enough with this nonsense.
"Only professional astronomer I ever knew personally discovered Pluto.[/b]/
What else can this sentence mean, other than that you knew Lowell?
You persist in intentionally confusing the known tiny wobbles in Earth's axial tilt with larger events which would be noticeable to people looking at the sky with naked eyes.
Give it up. |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 527876
United States
4/28/2009 9:54 AM | | Re: EARTH'S AXIS TILT INCREASED BY AN ADDITIONAL 26 DEGREES | Quote |
"Himself" is an idiot who doens't have the first clue. Yes, there are numerous known MICROSCOPIC or very long term wobbles of the earth's rotation, but none that could be detected without very sophisticated instrumentation. Certainly not that could be detected by the naked eye. |
| himself
User ID: 666594
United States
4/28/2009 11:05 AM | | Re: EARTH'S AXIS TILT INCREASED BY AN ADDITIONAL 26 DEGREES | Quote |
I remember (1960's) being ridiculed by a professor when I suggested multiple smaller telescopes with cameras could filter out atmospheric effects and give a clear view.
Exactly what syp-sats do now to get resolution not possible with mere optics.
===========================
Clyde Tombaugh was a visiting lecturer at Griffith Park Observatory, during which time we had a few conversations between his lectures.
Clyde Tombaugh told me he discovered 'the missing planet' by looking where, not astronomers, but mathematicians, had predicted would be where he looked.
Enough with this nonsense.
quoting me>>"Only professional astronomer I ever knew personally discovered Pluto.[/b]<<
What else can this sentence mean, other than that you knew Lowell?
Quoting: Menow 405501
It could mean exactly what it says/reads:
I knew the professional astronomer who discovered Pluto! Clyde Tombaugh
menow stupidly repeating the false belief that Lowell discovered Pluto shows clearly which of us knows more about astronomy.
I do become tired of having a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent.
Percival Lowell was the astronomer who build an observatory near Flagstaff AZ and mapped the canals of mars.
He was dead long before the first of my several visits to the lowell Observatory.
I'd post links, but debunkers don't visit links and learn facts.
You persist in intentionally confusing the known tiny wobbles in Earth's axial tilt with larger events which would be noticeable to people looking at the sky with naked eyes.
Give it up. Quoting: Menow 405501
>larger events which would be noticeable to people looking at the sky with naked eyes<
Which events inspired looking more closely with telescopes?
For those too stupid to grasp the obvious. Pay close attention.
Observing variations in the earth's tilt, is what caused closer examination and eventual discovery of the Chandler wobble.
Early modern astronomers noticed even polaris always leaves a circle track on a long exposure photographic plate. Eventually someone noticed that track is not a perfect circle but instead shows a wobbling motion.
Don't any of you debunkers ever visit links and actually read.
Is it merely that you cannot survive long with your heads out of you asses?
Last Edited by himself on 4/28/2009 at 11:30 AM |
| 1 Not Concerned
User ID: 665780
United States
4/28/2009 11:08 AM | | Re: EARTH'S AXIS TILT INCREASED BY AN ADDITIONAL 26 DEGREES | Quote |
I live on top of a hill so I'm good from the floods. |
| himself
User ID: 666594
United States
4/28/2009 11:54 AM | | Re: EARTH'S AXIS TILT INCREASED BY AN ADDITIONAL 26 DEGREES | Quote |
I live on top of a hill so I'm good from the floods. Quoting: 1 Not Concerned 665780
An object that spins 24,000 miles every twenty four hours.
2,400mph constant speed of rotation.
It would take an instant shift of axis tilt to be noticeable.
Any tilt taking place over a few hours or a few days would be un noticeable.
No oceans and seas are going to slop over the land , no continents suddenly dropping neath the waves nor emerging.
I wasn't looking when those claims were made, so I just checked with the professionals who admit they track and ignore temporary variations in tilt.
Just another wobble does not concern them.
Like Coast Guard ignore a coincidence of wave fronts that produces a 100' wave, so long as no boat is swamped during that temporary coinciding of multiple smaller waves. |
| Menow
User ID: 405501
United States
4/28/2009 12:36 PM | | Re: EARTH'S AXIS TILT INCREASED BY AN ADDITIONAL 26 DEGREES | Quote |
I remember (1960's) being ridiculed by a professor when I suggested multiple smaller telescopes with cameras could filter out atmospheric effects and give a clear view.
Exactly what syp-sats do now to get resolution not possible with mere optics.
===========================
Clyde Tombaugh was a visiting lecturer at Griffith Park Observatory, during which time we had a few conversations between his lectures.
Clyde Tombaugh told me he discovered 'the missing planet' by looking where, not astronomers, but mathematicians, had predicted would be where he looked.
Enough with this nonsense.
quoting me>>"Only professional astronomer I ever knew personally discovered Pluto.[/b]<<
What else can this sentence mean, other than that you knew Lowell?
It could mean exactly what it says/reads:
I knew the professional astronomer who discovered Pluto! Clyde Tombaugh
menow stupidly repeating the false belief that Lowell discovered Pluto shows clearly which of us knows more about astronomy.
I do become tired of having a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent. Quoting: himself
Actually, I originally said: "Wasn't that Lowell?" That is a question, not a claim of fact. Get over yourself, himself.
What's the deal with Clyde Tombaugh, anyway? You claimed that he said something to you and I asked you to explain further. You didn't.
Percival Lowell was the astronomer who build an observatory near Flagstaff AZ and mapped the canals of mars.
He was dead long before the first of my several visits to the lowell Observatory. Quoting: himself
Fine.
I'd post links, but debunkers don't visit links and learn facts. Quoting: himself
Quite a broadbrush insult. Untrue, of course.
You persist in intentionally confusing the known tiny wobbles in Earth's axial tilt with larger events which would be noticeable to people looking at the sky with naked eyes.
Give it up.
>larger events which would be noticeable to people looking at the sky with naked eyes<
Which events inspired looking more closely with telescopes? Quoting: himself
Huh? I guess I should have said "alleged" events. No such event as the OP suggests has taken place.
For those too stupid to grasp the obvious. Pay close attention.
Observing variations in the earth's tilt, is what caused closer examination and eventual discovery of the Chandler wobble. Quoting: himself
Observing them HOW, with naked eyes? No.
Early modern astronomers noticed even polaris always leaves a circle track on a long exposure photographic plate. Eventually someone noticed that track is not a perfect circle but instead shows a wobbling motion. Quoting: himself
Observed with WHAT, naked eyes? No. What is your point? NO ONE has said that such tiny wobbles don't exist. NO ONE.
Don't any of you debunkers ever visit links and actually read.
Is it merely that you cannot survive long with your heads out of you asses? Quoting: himself
What, exactly, is your point? This relates, in NO way, to the claim that Earth has tilted an additional 26 degrees or that any axial wobbles can be detected without SOHPISTICATED EQUIPMENT. |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 527876
United States
4/28/2009 12:38 PM | | Re: EARTH'S AXIS TILT INCREASED BY AN ADDITIONAL 26 DEGREES | Quote |
For those too stupid to grasp the obvious. Pay close attention.
Observing variations in the earth's tilt, is what caused closer examination and eventual discovery of the Chandler wobble.
Early modern astronomers noticed even polaris always leaves a circle track on a long exposure photographic plate. Eventually someone noticed that track is not a perfect circle but instead shows a wobbling motion.
Don't any of you debunkers ever visit links and actually read.
Is it merely that you cannot survive long with your heads out of you asses? Quoting: himself
Polaris is not at the north celestial pole...it is nearly 3/4 of a degree from it, therefore it will always leave a small circle on a long exposure photograph it itself.
The Chandler Wobble was NOT discovered from observation...it was predicted as a natural outcome of a spinning object called "free nutation" by mathematician Leonhard Euler in the late 1800's. Astronomers looked for the wobble photographically but did NOT find it. A group of observatories (the International Latitude Observatories) were set up specifically to develop methods of looking for and measuring it, if it existed. Astronomer Seth Chandler in 1891 suggested a different method of analysing the data and found the extremely small wabble that amounts to less than 50 feet across the entire globe with a period of 433 days.
Now, YOU go back and do a little reading of your own. You don't HAVE to remain ignorant forever. |
| Menow
User ID: 405501
United States
4/28/2009 12:50 PM | | Re: EARTH'S AXIS TILT INCREASED BY AN ADDITIONAL 26 DEGREES | Quote |
I live on top of a hill so I'm good from the floods.
An object that spins 24,000 miles every twenty four hours. Quoting: himself
That doesn't really make sense, but I guess you mean Earth's surface at the equator? OK.
2,400mph constant speed of rotation. Quoting: himself
Uhh... Care to figure that again?
It would take an instant shift of axis tilt to be noticeable.
Any tilt taking place over a few hours or a few days would be un noticeable. Quoting: himself
You mean, for the sake of argument, except for objects in the sky being radically out of place? Didn't happen.
No oceans and seas are going to slop over the land , no continents suddenly dropping neath the waves nor emerging. Quoting: himself
Balderdash. Do the math. Ohh.. nevermind.. we see from above that math is not really something you can do.
I wasn't looking when those claims were made, so I just checked with the professionals who admit they track and ignore temporary variations in tilt. Quoting: himself
Ignore? Hardly. What do you think you mean by that? If a wobble is tiny enough to "ignore", say, for astrophotography, then is is infinitesimal. What is your point?
Just another wobble does not concern them. Quoting: himself
BZZT! WRONG! You are AGAIN trying to confuse tiny, known wobbles with something MASSIVE.
Like Coast Guard ignore a coincidence of wave fronts that produces a 100' wave, so long as no boat is swamped during that temporary coinciding of multiple smaller waves. Quoting: himself
No "100' wave" has taken place in the sky. It SIMPLY DIDN'T HAPPEN. |
| Win lose or Draw
User ID: 471791
United States
4/28/2009 12:54 PM | | Re: EARTH'S AXIS TILT INCREASED BY AN ADDITIONAL 26 DEGREES | Quote |
You said that astronomers can be made to say anything. Now you say that no one would listen. Can't make up your mind which foolish obtuse notion you want to push? There are THOUSANDS of astronomers, of all types, posting on DOZENS of astronomy forums across the internet. So are they somehow kept from posting what they think and see or is everyone reading what they say somehow made to not respond?
Your entire premise is just downright stupid.
*****************************************************
Listening and Saying something are two separate functions just like walking and chewing gum something I'm sure you have trouble doing.
Can't offer anything without cutting me down first? Quoting: Menow 405501
Looks like to me your pretty good at drawing blood yourself. I figure that going into this game.
You suppose naively that because of the numbers that someone on his own with no support from his fellow colleagues who have all by this time been told by the powers that be,
BZZT! ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLL of them? You are truly paranoid. Do you have ANY idea how many amatuer astronomers there are who have zero affiliation with any government agencies?
No I'm a realest. I'm ex-military and I know for sure that every one who know about this, who is anybody has been told to shut their mouths and also to debunk anybody and anything that says different. An amateur is just that an amateur who’s going to listen to them or believe them. YOU? Fat chance.
Remember mums the word.
that this is a matter of national security and to keep their mouths shut for fear of loss of their jobs, credibility, and maybe bodily harm.
See above.
That’s the problems with secrets there is almost always a leak.
You think they are going to have a chance to put this stuff out to the public via Normal Channels. You’re a pretty smart guy do you really believe the NSA, CIA, and other agencies do not monitor the NET.
So you think they filter all posts to astronomy forums? Paranoid much?
No, they don't have to; good for them they have people like you. If I did not know better I would say you’re on their pay role.
Is all the data on [link to www.divulgence.net] just made up?
Yeah. Pretty much.
Show your proof.
Is it all a fake, even the satellite images?
No, just the analysis of them.
Again, show your proof.
[link to www.divulgence.net]
Do you believe that our governments do not have secrets that they don’t knowingly keep things from the public to control and manipulate the masses?
No connection to the impossibly perfect coverup you are suggesting.
That our politicians and scientist (astronomers included) always tell us the truth about such things?
Obtuse, meaningless argument. See above. It simply doesn't follow from what you are saying that all astronomers can be controlled.
You can't honestly believe that none of these men can be controlled. By the way you don't have to control all of them just the ones who don't go along with the game and it’s not a perfect cover up it a real bad attempt at one.
The record of our history bears out that most educated, noble blue blood; elite scum despises the common people. They look down on them as cattle to be herded to the slaughter just because they believe they have the right and they do have the power to do so. This is really my point. I’m sure to you this is all this is “just downright stupid” also.
Pretty much.
Good to know we agree on something.  |
| Menow
User ID: 405501
United States
4/28/2009 1:06 PM | | Re: EARTH'S AXIS TILT INCREASED BY AN ADDITIONAL 26 DEGREES | Quote |
You said that astronomers can be made to say anything. Now you say that no one would listen. Can't make up your mind which foolish obtuse notion you want to push? There are THOUSANDS of astronomers, of all types, posting on DOZENS of astronomy forums across the internet. So are they somehow kept from posting what they think and see or is everyone reading what they say somehow made to not respond?
Your entire premise is just downright stupid.
*****************************************************
Listening and Saying something are two separate functions just like walking and chewing gum something I'm sure you have trouble doing.
Can't offer anything without cutting me down first?
Looks like to me your pretty good at drawing blood yourself. I figure that going into this game. Quoting: Win lose or Draw 471791
I'm going to try to respond, even though you haven't quoted well. I certainly have tossed some insults, but not before having shown good reason.
You suppose naively that because of the numbers that someone on his own with no support from his fellow colleagues who have all by this time been told by the powers that be,
BZZT! ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLL of them? You are truly paranoid. Do you have ANY idea how many amatuer astronomers there are who have zero affiliation with any government agencies?
No I'm a realest. I'm ex-military and I know for sure that every one who know about this, who is anybody has been told to shut their mouths and also to debunk anybody and anything that says different. An amateur is just that an amateur who’s going to listen to them or believe them. YOU? Fat chance.
Remember mums the word. Quoting: Win lose or Draw 471791
Go to ANY astronomy club and report back whether you think they ALLL are lying to you when they say things are where they belong in the sky. Oh... and be sure to have them show you how a GOTO telescope works while you're there.
that this is a matter of national security and to keep their mouths shut for fear of loss of their jobs, credibility, and maybe bodily harm.
See above.
That’s the problems with secrets there is almost always a leak.
You think they are going to have a chance to put this stuff out to the public via Normal Channels. You’re a pretty smart guy do you really believe the NSA, CIA, and other agencies do not monitor the NET.
So you think they filter all posts to astronomy forums? Paranoid much?
No, they don't have to; good for them they have people like you. If I did not know better I would say you’re on their pay role. Quoting: Win lose or Draw 471791
Good that you know better, then. This is NOT an astronomy forum. Why don't you see if there are ANY posts on ANY astronomy fora claiming that the sky is out of whack.
Quoting: Win lose or Draw 471791
Ahh.. no, you show YOURS. It's not my, or ANYBODY'S job to try to prove a negative and that every silly assertion on every WOO site on the internet is false. Are you daft?
Is it all a fake, even the satellite images?
No, just the analysis of them.
Again, show your proof. Quoting: Win lose or Draw 471791
Again... see above.
[ link to www.divulgence.net]
Do you believe that our governments do not have secrets that they don’t knowingly keep things from the public to control and manipulate the masses?
No connection to the impossibly perfect coverup you are suggesting.
That our politicians and scientist (astronomers included) always tell us the truth about such things?
Obtuse, meaningless argument. See above. It simply doesn't follow from what you are saying that all astronomers can be controlled.
You can't honestly believe that none of these men can be controlled.
Funny... I didn't say that at all, now did I? Why do you have to skew my statement so radically to try to make your point? It's because you don't HAVE a valid point.
By the way you don't have to control all of them just the ones who don't go along with the game and it’s not a perfect cover up it a real bad attempt at one. Quoting: Win lose or Draw 471791
Really? Then were are the posts on astronomy forums claiming that the sky is out of whack?
The record of our history bears out that most educated, noble blue blood; elite scum despises the common people. They look down on them as cattle to be herded to the slaughter just because they believe they have the right and they do have the power to do so. This is really my point. I’m sure to you this is all this is “just downright stupid” also.
Pretty much.
Good to know we agree on something.
I do belive you have a bad case of FAIL. |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 548017
United States
4/28/2009 1:29 PM | | Re: EARTH'S AXIS TILT INCREASED BY AN ADDITIONAL 26 DEGREES | Quote |
No I'm a realest. I'm ex-military and I know for sure that every one who know about this, who is anybody has been told to shut their mouths and also to debunk anybody and anything that says different. An amateur is just that an amateur who’s going to listen to them or believe them. YOU? Fat chance.
Remember mums the word. Quoting: Win lose or Draw 471791
If the tilt of the Earth were off by 26 degrees, you wouldn't need an astronomer amateur or otherwise to observe that. SIX BILLION PEOPLE ALL OVER THE WORLD COULD WALK OUTSIDE, LOOK UP AND EASILY SEE IT WITHOUT ANY INSTRUMENTS AT ALL. What kind of conspiracy could silence that? This fantastic conspiracy that obviously can't even stop any of the many posts about this here on GLP? |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 471920
United States
4/28/2009 7:12 PM | | Re: EARTH'S AXIS TILT INCREASED BY AN ADDITIONAL 26 DEGREES | Quote |
No I'm a realest. I'm ex-military and I know for sure that every one who know about this, who is anybody has been told to shut their mouths and also to debunk anybody and anything that says different. An amateur is just that an amateur who’s going to listen to them or believe them. YOU? Fat chance.
Remember mums the word.
If the tilt of the Earth were off by 26 degrees, you wouldn't need an astronomer amateur or otherwise to observe that. SIX BILLION PEOPLE ALL OVER THE WORLD COULD WALK OUTSIDE, LOOK UP AND EASILY SEE IT WITHOUT ANY INSTRUMENTS AT ALL. What kind of conspiracy could silence that? This fantastic conspiracy that obviously can't even stop any of the many posts about this here on GLP? Quoting: Anonymous Coward 548017
Ok I'll bite, You keep saying the same thing but it's based on your own assumptions. Here are some things to consider that are posted on the www.divulgence.net/ site.
"When the earth's tilt was normal before the slippage, the sun was directly over the equator on Sept 23rd and again on Mar 21st. Despite the 2000 mile shift of the earth's axis, the sun will still continue to be directly over the equator on those dates. So everything will appear completely normal on those dates.
A 2000 mile shift does not create a dramatic change in the appearance of the stars as some people might think. A 26 degree change in the angle of the sun does not translate into a 26 degree change in the stars. This is due to the distance and size perception of the stars versus the sun. If you traveled from Chicago to Brownsville TX, you would not notice any difference in the stars at all if it was the exact same time of night on the same day. (keep in mind that the earth continues to rotate and orbit the sun so this causes the stars you see to move throughout the night).
A similar problem people mistake is to think they would be able to feel a 2000 mile shift but that is not the case. The earth rotates just under 25,000 miles each day. Or about 1038 miles each hour, but you cannot feel the rotation of the earth or the orbit of the earth around the sun. So when you think about this, 2000 miles is much less in comparison with the movements constantly occurring with our planet in motion.
As we move closer to Autumn, the angle of the sun is returning to a more normal position. As we move toward winter, the sun will again be 26 degrees but to the south this time. From the northern hemisphere, it would be difficult to notice. Someone in Brazil would be better able to see the difference in angle. The best time to see the axis change from the US is in the month of June during sunrise and sunset.... at the moment it begins to pass behind the horizon. If you try to judge this while it is in the sky, it will throw you off because the path of the sun across the sky is curved.
However, since the sun is supposed to be directly above the Tropic of Cancer in central Mexico at noon on June 21st.... and you live in the US and see the sun setting and rising to the North of your location, that is the one conclusive piece of evidence which cannot be obscured or manipulated. The sun should never rise or set to the north of the tropic of cancer.
Here are two star charts."
[link to www.divulgence.net]
"One is for the latitude between the Dakotas 99.21 N Latitude and the other image shows the stars at the central Mexico Latitude 22.21 N. Both are the same longitude 99.24 W. Each pair of images are comparisons in the same time frame as stars will seem to move as we rotate below them. Stars also change as we rotate around the sun.... but again, not as dramatically as one would think.
The differences are of little notice to the average person. The most outer edges which correspond with a perfectly flat horizon are normally obscured behind buildings, trees, hills, etc. Smog and glare of city lights also reduce the ability to see much at the horizon and often, only the brightest stars directly overhead show up."
This makes logical sense to me. It is based on known and accepted methods. Not just opinion and assumptions. |
| nomuse (NLI)
User ID: 660770
United States
4/28/2009 9:10 PM | | Re: EARTH'S AXIS TILT INCREASED BY AN ADDITIONAL 26 DEGREES | Quote |
A 26 degree change in the angle of the sun does not translate into a 26 degree change in the stars. This is due to the distance and size perception of the stars versus the sun. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 471920
BZZT. The circumference of the Earth is such a tiny fraction of the distance to the Sun, the parallax shift is trivial. Also, this is an angular shift; if you stand in the Navy Pier, watching a fireworks display under a harvest moon, and move your head 26 degrees, pier, fireworks, and moon will all move the identical 26 degrees. Parallax doesn't enter into it.
A similar problem people mistake is to think they would be able to feel a 2000 mile shift but that is not the case. The earth rotates just under 25,000 miles each day. Or about 1038 miles each hour, but you cannot feel the rotation of the earth or the orbit of the earth around the sun. So when you think about this, 2000 miles is much less in comparison with the movements constantly occurring with our planet in motion. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 471920
BZZT. If you are in an airplane, and a passenger irate over the price of duty-free liquor shoves you against the bathroom door, how fast do you hit? Do you hit harder or softer because the plane is going 500 MPH at the time.
Learn about addition of vectors.
Actually, what is important about the motions of the Earth in this scenario is that if you change the axis by 26 degrees, you are deaccelerating along the original vector and accelerating along a new vector. When a plane makes a high-speed turn, the pilot is shoved into her seat and may black out. What shoves her? The difference in vectors. She is still traveling "forwards" (in reference to the plane's axis) at the same speed but there is no way to magically translate heading. The angle becomes thrust. The thrust becomes our problem, here on the ground. You move the axis of the Earth, and everyone goes flying.
Different example that might help you. Try tipping a top. Feel the resistance to change in angular moment. That's what we are talking about here. The great speed of the Earth doesn't MASK the problem of a sudden change in axis, it IS the problem.
As we move closer to Autumn, the angle of the sun is returning to a more normal position. As we move toward winter, the sun will again be 26 degrees but to the south this time. From the northern hemisphere, it would be difficult to notice. Someone in Brazil would be better able to see the difference in angle. The best time to see the axis change from the US is in the month of June during sunrise and sunset.... at the moment it begins to pass behind the horizon. If you try to judge this while it is in the sky, it will throw you off because the path of the sun across the sky is curved. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 471920
Or use a sundial, which is more precise than the naked eye. Or use a star chart, which even with the naked eye can get you within 20 minutes of when a feature crosses the zenith (or, with experience, when you get it above your local horizon.)
Or use a 'scope, which is WAY more precise than that. |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 477567
United States
4/28/2009 9:15 PM | | Re: EARTH'S AXIS TILT INCREASED BY AN ADDITIONAL 26 DEGREES | Quote |
The pole shift will be magnetic not geographic. A magnetic pole shift is dangerous enough, a geographic would be the end of us all. |
| Candace
User ID: 272605
United States
4/28/2009 9:17 PM | | Re: EARTH'S AXIS TILT INCREASED BY AN ADDITIONAL 26 DEGREES | Quote |
When Polaris (the north star) is 26 degrees from its old & reliable position
then you will have a leg to stand on.
You know what they'll say then, right?
"Someone moved Polaris!" Quoting: DrPostman
Take a look Dr. P, on a clear night and you may well see "Polaris" changing colors! AND moving around NOT in a normal way, Must be a star ship because there is no other way over a years time as we journey in what, a 92 million mile radius around our sun and as the planet tilts through the seasons, that it stays in the same place anyway. For your story to work, you had better be watching it for a full year thru you 1 inch tube. Another posted he did and it doesn't.
Seeking Visionaries, who can and will create the many moronic missions I need to heap on Earth and her peoples, and bring boredom. Seeking those who can constantly expand the truth into fiction and will strive earnestly to stand in the way of truth 100% of the time, making every moment of every day, a Hokey Event. TWO OR MORE IN MY NAME. ~ www.Redundantdope.net |
| nomuse (NLI)
User ID: 660770
United States
4/28/2009 9:46 PM | | Re: EARTH'S AXIS TILT INCREASED BY AN ADDITIONAL 26 DEGREES | Quote |
Must be a star ship because there is no other way over a years time as we journey in what, a 92 million mile radius around our sun and as the planet tilts through the seasons, that it stays in the same place anyway. Quoting: Candace
Oh, Candace, Candace, please say you'll never go away again!
(Sung to tune of "Hello, Dolly")
Your misapprehensions about the geometry of the solar system are FAR to entertaining to lose. |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 548017
United States
4/29/2009 12:36 PM | | Re: EARTH'S AXIS TILT INCREASED BY AN ADDITIONAL 26 DEGREES | Quote |
Take a look Dr. P, on a clear night and you may well see "Polaris" changing colors! AND moving around NOT in a normal way, Must be a star ship Quoting: Candace
"This is very autobiographical. This is the cuteness of a girl versus how interested I am in hearing about how intuitive her cat is. You see, the cuter the girl is, the more I'm willing to hear about the cat. "Oh really?" "Yeah, he's very intuitive." But you'll notice, at a certain point, I don't care how cute you are. I don't wanna hear about your fucking cat anymore. I hate your cat. When you leave the room, I try to get it."
-Dimetri Martin |
| Mysterysoul
User ID: 664247
United States
4/29/2009 1:02 PM | | Re: EARTH'S AXIS TILT INCREASED BY AN ADDITIONAL 26 DEGREES | Quote |
When Polaris (the north star) is 26 degrees from its old & reliable position
then you will have a leg to stand on.
You know what they'll say then, right?
"Someone moved Polaris!"
Take a look Dr. P, on a clear night and you may well see "Polaris" changing colors! AND moving around NOT in a normal way, Must be a star ship because there is no other way over a years time as we journey in what, a 92 million mile radius around our sun and as the planet tilts through the seasons, that it stays in the same place anyway. For your story to work, you had better be watching it for a full year thru you 1 inch tube. Another posted he did and it doesn't. Quoting: Candace
Thats. Thats just silly. Candace did you forget to take your meds today?....BTW hows jupiter?...still igniting?
"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, chocolate in one hand, martini in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming--WOO HOO what a ride!" |
| himself
User ID: 667355
United States
4/29/2009 1:05 PM | | Re: EARTH'S AXIS TILT INCREASED BY AN ADDITIONAL 26 DEGREES | Quote |
Actually, what is important about the motions of the Earth in this scenario is that if you change the axis by 26 degrees, you are deaccelerating along the original vector and accelerating along a new vector. Quoting: nomuse (NLI) 660770
Shows you know nothing about it.
Take an anyalytic geometry class.
No decelerating is involved.
Angular momentum does not cancel out the origional momentum
unless the angle is 180 degrees.
Learn about addition of vectors. Quoting: nomuse (NLI) 660770
You be talking way above your head and exposing your own ignorance.
Different example that might help you. Try tipping a top. Feel the resistance to change in angular moment. That's what we are talking about here. The great speed of the Earth doesn't MASK the problem of a sudden change in axis, it IS the problem. Quoting: nomuse (NLI) 660770
Blow your breath, or aim a vacuum cleaner's output, onto a spinning top, and watch it veer 90 degrees in the direction of rotation.
A top will wobble and even flip, and so will planet earth, and any other rotating body, if the professionals are correct, and I trust them far more than self appointed expert debunkers. |
| LURKING
User ID: 656081
United States
4/29/2009 1:06 PM | | Re: EARTH'S AXIS TILT INCREASED BY AN ADDITIONAL 26 DEGREES | Quote |
Interesting doom scenario. Best one we've had in a long time. Could explain a lot. No idea if it has one iota of validity. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 204901
Well... you don't have to believe it. You can go check for yourself. Find out which star is the apparent center of rotation in the Northern night sky. If it's not Polaris, then this might have merit. If it is Polaris, then it's a full on line of crap.
Come on. Think for yourselves people.
Last Edited by LURKING on 4/29/2009 at 1:07 PM
"The Truth is so valuable that it must be protected with a bodyguard of lies"
Winston Churchill
Punted from GLP for the last time by unresponsive mods. Have gone to greener pastures where there is more professionalism. |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 667435
United States
4/29/2009 2:13 PM | | Re: EARTH'S AXIS TILT INCREASED BY AN ADDITIONAL 26 DEGREES | Quote |
When Polaris (the north star) is 26 degrees from its old & reliable position
then you will have a leg to stand on.
You know what they'll say then, right?
"Someone moved Polaris!"
Take a look Dr. P, on a clear night and you may well see "Polaris" changing colors! AND moving around NOT in a normal way, Must be a star ship because there is no other way over a years time as we journey in what, a 92 million mile radius around our sun and as the planet tilts through the seasons, that it stays in the same place anyway. For your story to work, you had better be watching it for a full year thru you 1 inch tube. Another posted he did and it doesn't. Quoting: Candace
You don't even know which star is Polaris...you didn't know which consteallation Triangulum was earlier this week. How is anyone supposed to believe YOU? |
| nomuse (NLI)
User ID: 660770
United States
4/29/2009 5:04 PM | | Re: EARTH'S AXIS TILT INCREASED BY AN ADDITIONAL 26 DEGREES | Quote |
Shows you know nothing about it.
Take an anyalytic geometry class.
No decelerating is involved.
Angular momentum does not cancel out the origional momentum
unless the angle is 180 degrees. Quoting: himself
Oh, I do sorry. I slipped into teaching mode for a moment, and forgot I was in the presence of Captain Literal.
Sir, complete cancellation is at 180 degrees. PARTIAL cancellation is at anything other than 0 degrees. The only person who failed to realize I was speaking of the difference component, not the total, would be one who had no interest in absorbing any of the content of the post, but was poised only to leap at anything he could use to make the other person look stupid.
Unless of course (and from the latter part of your post this seems possible) you don't believe in the gyroscopic effect? Then this is less a quibble about precision in writing, and more a confusion about basic science. |
| Menow
User ID: 405501
United States
4/29/2009 6:17 PM | | Re: EARTH'S AXIS TILT INCREASED BY AN ADDITIONAL 26 DEGREES | Quote |
When Polaris (the north star) is 26 degrees from its old & reliable position
then you will have a leg to stand on.
You know what they'll say then, right?
"Someone moved Polaris!"
Take a look Dr. P, on a clear night and you may well see "Polaris" changing colors! AND moving around NOT in a normal way, Must be a star ship because there is no other way over a years time as we journey in what, a 92 million mile radius around our sun and as the planet tilts through the seasons, that it stays in the same place anyway. For your story to work, you had better be watching it for a full year thru you 1 inch tube. Another posted he did and it doesn't. Quoting: Candace
Holy CRAP! You actually think the seasons change because the Earth's TILT CHANGES??
BWWWWAAAAAAHHHAHAHHAHAAA..A.A..A.A..A......
Why do you KEEEEEPPPP HHHAAARRRRPPPINNNNGGG on the freakin' INCH TUBE?? This is after I have told you that the LENGTH is also a factor? When I suggested the tube, I just threw out 3/4" or 1" without having really done the math. Then, when you said you were doing it, I DID the math and gave you the numbers, which you have only grasped in part, it seems.
Neither *I* nor no one else ever said that it will STAY IN A 1 INCH TUBE. There is more to it than that. Either you want to learn the rest or you don't. I think it's clear that you don't. |
| Menow
User ID: 405501
United States
4/29/2009 6:40 PM | | Re: EARTH'S AXIS TILT INCREASED BY AN ADDITIONAL 26 DEGREES | Quote |
Shows you know nothing about it.
Take an anyalytic geometry class.
No decelerating is involved.
Angular momentum does not cancel out the origional momentum
unless the angle is 180 degrees. Quoting: himself
You really are full of yourself, clueless and self-absorbed. By sheer definition there is a deceleration in the old direction. You are going LESS FAST in that original direction if you turn 45 degrees and maintain the same speed. There WILL be momentum felt in the original direction by the passengers if a car veers off at any angle away from the original direction. |
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