| | | Page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 | Zeitgeist is a complete lie!
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 233659
9/11/2007 11:29 PM
Report abusive post | Zeitgeist is a complete lie!
| Quote |
I don't know where to start: this video is a complete lie.
First off, the video is full of misinformation about Horus. He was baptized? Oh really! I would love to see a source for that!
Most of the supposed parallels are completely untrue!
Actually, Muslim apologists have been trying to do this for centuries--to say that Christianity is really just another form of paganism. But that's a lie.
Most of the information in this video seems to come from Acharya S's book, The Christ Conspiracy (1999), which is a sensationalist book which has zero academic credibility. If you want to learn about Horus you can read the ancient myths about him--
Egyptian Mythology: Horus
Encyclopedia Mythica: Horus
The Eye Of Horus
Tektonics: Horus, Isis, Osiris
Let's go over just some of the data:
1. Horus was not born of a Virgin--that's a lie.
2. Horus was not baptized. That's a complete fabrication. "Anup the Baptizer"?--show me where you find that! That's a lie.
3. Horus never walked on water. He performed miracles, but raising the dead and walking on water were not among them. Nor did he cast out demons.
4. Horus had disciples--but you can't show me a single reference to his having twelve. That's a lie.
5. Horus never taught in the temple at age 12. That's a lie. Read the accounts above--it's not there.
6. Where was ever said that was Horus crucified? That's a lie! He died in a later version of the story and was brought back to life--but Jesus' "resurrection" was more than a mere coming back to life. His body was transformed and changed. Anyways, it was only later added to the Horus legend.
That's just off the top of my head. That should give you some indication though about the reliability of this film. In short, its claims are lies that are told to sell books. But no scholar in the world would accept this stuff--only the ignorant. Anybody can get a book published or a video made and say whatever they want. That doesn't make it true.
Moreover, to think that Jesus didn't exist is absolutely, positively unfounded, unhistorical, and unrealistic.
Those who opposed Chrstianity from the very beginning never asserted that Jesus didn't exist--in fact, they made all kinds of slanderous claims against Jesus. But they never asserted he was a myth.
In fact, there's more evidence Jesus existed than virtually any one else in antiquity.
... and there isn't a single respectable scholar today--Christian or secular--who would make such a claim. Only those who haven't studied the issue seriously could say such a thing.
Hope that helps...
***UPDATE***
I just want to add a few things here to address some of the comments made below.
One person--who safely posted anonymously--makes the claim that my own sources refute me. They post the supposed parallels from the article [Tektonics: Horus, Isis, Osiris], which first lists the "claims"... then refutes them. The "anonymous" poster didn't finish the article! This of course highlights the kind of ignorance of and/or misrespresentation of sources we're dealing with here.
Secondly, another person explained that the sources for the movie have been posted on-line. Follow the link and--what a shocker!--the primary source for the movie's claims about Jesus and Christianity is said to be Acharya S's book, The Christ Conspiracy (1999). Again, this book is NOT an academic work and has ZERO credibility. According to this very site, one of S's sources is said to be John Allegro--a man whose work has frequently been condemned by scholars.
For example, when John Allegro attempted to publish a translation of the Dead Sea Scrolls, fourteen Oxford scholars wrote to the publisher and demanded it be pulled--it was an absolutely inaccurate translation! The book was pulled and the publisher even apologized! A critique was written by John Strugnell, which meticulously revealed in a line-by-line treatment the errors and which was longer than Allegro's book itself! [See "Notes en marge du volume V des 'Discoveries in the Judaean Desert of Jordon'" in Revue de Qumran 7 (1963): 163-76. For more on the debacle see, James VanderKam and Peter Flint, The Meaning of the Dead See Scrolls (San Francisco: HaperCollins, 2002), 381-403.]
The fact is, no scholar takes Allegro's work seriously. You will only see his name mentioned in academic journals such as the Journal for the Historical Jesus (not a particularly conservative journal!) in articles listing the most outrageous examples of poor scholarship.
Of course, you won't find scholars quoting from S's book either.
Again, read the ancient sources themselves and see what they say about Horus--he was not baptized, crucified, etc. It may sell movies and it may appeal to those who already want to dismiss Christianity, but the Jesus-Horus comparison has really no academic value whatsoever |
| LS
User ID: 253961
9/11/2007 11:30 PM | | Re: Zeitgeist is a complete lie! | Quote |
nope.
p.s. giving yourself a 5-star vote is bad form. |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 21470
9/11/2007 11:30 PM | | Re: Zeitgeist is a complete lie! | Quote |
thats why they call it His-story |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 295027
9/11/2007 11:32 PM | | Re: Zeitgeist is a complete lie! | Quote |
Dont worry ,it is a sad attempt....they are desperate since its the last hour...cant fool any christians but only those who are already lost.
that video was propaganda against the christians faith ,1/3 of it trying to destroy the christ,like it happend in heavens its happening on earth ...what a waste,all lies from the father of lies.
Yep they will use the evil conspiracy and turn it against religion when we all know who they worship. |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 280609
9/11/2007 11:32 PM | | Re: Zeitgeist is a complete lie! | Quote |
I don't know where to start: this video is a complete lie.
First off, the video is full of misinformation about Horus. He was baptized? Oh really! I would love to see a source for that!
Most of the supposed parallels are completely untrue!
Actually, Muslim apologists have been trying to do this for centuries--to say that Christianity is really just another form of paganism. But that's a lie.
Most of the information in this video seems to come from Acharya S's book, The Christ Conspiracy (1999), which is a sensationalist book which has zero academic credibility. If you want to learn about Horus you can read the ancient myths about him--
Egyptian Mythology: Horus
Encyclopedia Mythica: Horus
The Eye Of Horus
Tektonics: Horus, Isis, Osiris
Let's go over just some of the data:
1. Horus was not born of a Virgin--that's a lie.
2. Horus was not baptized. That's a complete fabrication. "Anup the Baptizer"?--show me where you find that! That's a lie.
3. Horus never walked on water. He performed miracles, but raising the dead and walking on water were not among them. Nor did he cast out demons.
4. Horus had disciples--but you can't show me a single reference to his having twelve. That's a lie.
5. Horus never taught in the temple at age 12. That's a lie. Read the accounts above--it's not there.
6. Where was ever said that was Horus crucified? That's a lie! He died in a later version of the story and was brought back to life--but Jesus' "resurrection" was more than a mere coming back to life. His body was transformed and changed. Anyways, it was only later added to the Horus legend.
That's just off the top of my head. That should give you some indication though about the reliability of this film. In short, its claims are lies that are told to sell books. But no scholar in the world would accept this stuff--only the ignorant. Anybody can get a book published or a video made and say whatever they want. That doesn't make it true.
Moreover, to think that Jesus didn't exist is absolutely, positively unfounded, unhistorical, and unrealistic.
Those who opposed Chrstianity from the very beginning never asserted that Jesus didn't exist--in fact, they made all kinds of slanderous claims against Jesus. But they never asserted he was a myth.
In fact, there's more evidence Jesus existed than virtually any one else in antiquity.
... and there isn't a single respectable scholar today--Christian or secular--who would make such a claim. Only those who haven't studied the issue seriously could say such a thing.
Hope that helps...
***UPDATE***
I just want to add a few things here to address some of the comments made below.
One person--who safely posted anonymously--makes the claim that my own sources refute me. They post the supposed parallels from the article [Tektonics: Horus, Isis, Osiris], which first lists the "claims"... then refutes them. The "anonymous" poster didn't finish the article! This of course highlights the kind of ignorance of and/or misrespresentation of sources we're dealing with here.
Secondly, another person explained that the sources for the movie have been posted on-line. Follow the link and--what a shocker!--the primary source for the movie's claims about Jesus and Christianity is said to be Acharya S's book, The Christ Conspiracy (1999). Again, this book is NOT an academic work and has ZERO credibility. According to this very site, one of S's sources is said to be John Allegro--a man whose work has frequently been condemned by scholars.
For example, when John Allegro attempted to publish a translation of the Dead Sea Scrolls, fourteen Oxford scholars wrote to the publisher and demanded it be pulled--it was an absolutely inaccurate translation! The book was pulled and the publisher even apologized! A critique was written by John Strugnell, which meticulously revealed in a line-by-line treatment the errors and which was longer than Allegro's book itself! [See "Notes en marge du volume V des 'Discoveries in the Judaean Desert of Jordon'" in Revue de Qumran 7 (1963): 163-76. For more on the debacle see, James VanderKam and Peter Flint, The Meaning of the Dead See Scrolls (San Francisco: HaperCollins, 2002), 381-403.]
The fact is, no scholar takes Allegro's work seriously. You will only see his name mentioned in academic journals such as the Journal for the Historical Jesus (not a particularly conservative journal!) in articles listing the most outrageous examples of poor scholarship.
Of course, you won't find scholars quoting from S's book either.
Again, read the ancient sources themselves and see what they say about Horus--he was not baptized, crucified, etc. It may sell movies and it may appeal to those who already want to dismiss Christianity, but the Jesus-Horus comparison has really no academic value whatsoever Quoting: Anonymous Coward 233659
i agree  |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 160293
9/11/2007 11:35 PM | | Re: Zeitgeist is a complete lie! | Quote |
Actually there is no official historical document that records Jesus the person as having lived. |
| StonedTaurus
User ID: 294912
9/11/2007 11:36 PM | | Re: Zeitgeist is a complete lie! | Quote |
"Most of the information in this video seems to come from Acharya S's book, The Christ Conspiracy (1999), which is a sensationalist book which has zero academic credibility"
First of all, only the first part of the film deals with these issues, try watching the rest as well. Second, who says The Christ Conspiracy or any other book (there are others) which says this stuff has zero academic credibility? Some religious zealots spouting bible quotes to back up what they say? Give me a break, you religious fanatics. EVERYONE WHO GOES TO CHURCH OF ANY KIND ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD AND BELIEVES THE LIES THEY ARE TOLD IS A RELIGIOUS FANATIC!!
You Zeitgeist debunkers have been smacked down before, so STEP OFF!! |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 274005
9/11/2007 11:40 PM | | Anonymous Coward
User ID: 296530
9/11/2007 11:45 PM | | Re: Zeitgeist is a complete lie! | Quote |
hey dude i tell u the deep secret
horus ,ra,isis and the other myth came from egypt magical history
so who have the mother from egypt
no wonder the mother always telling egypt magical myth story to her son :D |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 296543
9/11/2007 11:54 PM | | Re: Zeitgeist is a complete lie! | Quote |
This "fabricated story" of Jesus sets the stage for the rest of the movie, the shabby job the movie did in reporting on Christianity and ancient myths begs a second look at the rest of the movie's reportage.
Even if the other parts of the movie ring true, the first part was unrelated and shabbily handled.
The book of Luke was studied over 30 years by Sir Walter Ramsay who said, "Luke is a historian of the first rank, not merely are his statements of fact trustworthy... this author should be placed along with the very greatest of historians." The book of Luke has been studied by one prominent archaeologist concerning Luke's references to thirty-two countries, fifty-four cities, and nine islands, finding not a single mistake.
Doesn't sound like the type to make up a fabrication based on myth. |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 296543
9/11/2007 11:58 PM | | Re: Zeitgeist is a complete lie! | Quote |
Information of the average person on the Internet is like this. Someone hands you a piece of cheese and calls it cake. One person says it isn't cake and another insults you for it. Then that someone comes up with a well thought out plot as to why he thinks its cake and that words are meaningless. How did we come up with the word cheese instead of cake? Therefore he has all rights to call it cake. One person sees the point and spreads the idea saying how fantastic and wonderful it is. It spreads like wildfire and people are now calling cheese "cake". When in fact it is still a fucking block of cheese.
Now immediately I noticed the problem with Zeitgeist was the fact that the maker of this "documentary" has the religious knowledge of a poodle. He took many religious figures and gave them basic parables to Jesus Christ despite the fact the most of those aren't looked in depth or are just grossly inaccurate.
Take for example Jesus's Birthday. If you have common knowledge you will now that Jesus's birthday was set on December 25th to replace that of Bacchus. Jesus's birthday was not, in fact, on December 25th. Yet, he states throughout the film that his Birthday IS on December 25th. When in fact it says in the Bible that there were "shepherds in the field". This would indicate that Jesus was most likely born during the spring as well all should know that in that period Sheep did not graze in the winter.
Another example is the God Horus. Horus's story is pretty much inaccurate to hell other than the fact that he died and came to life again. You should all know that, in fact, there are many religious figures out there who have died and come back to life. Jesus wasn't the one who started the trend. Horus's story, if you ask any college professor or do...I dunno...basic Internet fact checking is not like he had said. Horus's mother was not a virgin as she had sex with a disembodied penis from Hours's father. He was never crucified. He had followers, but they were never called Disciples nor were there a specific numbers. It never really said he was born on December 25th.
Still you could look for basic rock hard parables to many religious figures, but if you look down at the stories and how detailed and different they are you learn that each one of them are unique in their own way and in others are not alike at all.
The movie rambles on about this while people soak it up like a sponge. |
| ActionandCruelty
User ID: 180240
9/12/2007 12:00 AM
 | | Re: Zeitgeist is a complete lie! | Quote |
Do some research into Archetypes
"he who is the author of a war, lets loose the whole contagion of hell, and opens a vein that bleeds a nation to death." - Thomas Paine (the crisis) |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 296493
9/12/2007 12:01 AM | | Re: Zeitgeist is a complete lie! | Quote |
 |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 237702
9/12/2007 12:23 AM | | Re: Zeitgeist is a complete lie! | Quote |
They are getting a little desperate now, they must, they must, they must discredit Christianity at all costs.
So they throw in truth on the other 2/3rds of the movie and assume people will think it is all truth. |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 239052
9/12/2007 12:25 AM | | Re: Zeitgeist is a complete lie! | Quote |
I don't know where to start: this video is a complete lie.
First off, the video is full of misinformation about Horus. He was baptized? Oh really! I would love to see a source for that! Quoting: Anonymous Coward 233659
Go to Philae Island, Egypt - and read the baptism of Horus by Khnum on the wall of the Holy of Holies... |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 237702
9/12/2007 12:30 AM | | Re: Zeitgeist is a complete lie! | Quote |
I don't know where to start: this video is a complete lie.
First off, the video is full of misinformation about Horus. He was baptized? Oh really! I would love to see a source for that!
Go to Philae Island, Egypt - and read the baptism of Horus by Khnum on the wall of the Holy of Holies... Quoting: Anonymous Coward 239052
Did Acharya write that one too? |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 293822
9/12/2007 12:31 AM | | Re: Zeitgeist is a complete lie! | Quote |
 |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 296491
9/12/2007 12:36 AM | | Re: Zeitgeist is a complete lie! | Quote |
Do some research into Archetypes Quoting: ActionandCruelty
!!!
Mis-communication
Metaphor
[link to en.wikipedia.org] |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 239052
9/12/2007 12:39 AM | | Re: Zeitgeist is a complete lie! | Quote |
Go to Philae Island, Egypt - and read the baptism of Horus by Khnum on the wall of the Holy of Holies...
Did Acharya write that one too? Quoting: Anonymous Coward 237702
I did.
 |
| G O D
User ID: 293822
9/12/2007 12:42 AM | | Re: Zeitgeist is a complete lie! | Quote |
Well I can see you little cowards are really scared now - guess the video had a little too much FACT so you result to your LIES in an attempt to debunk the video. Nice try but you have been beaten down before and will be again. Its a shame you are all so ignorant. It must be sad going through life a pathetic pantywaste who is so scared of the world. You must be miserable not be able to live your life without having to believe in mythical creatures. Do you all wear tinfoil hats when you sit in your churches?
Religion rots your brain.
By the 4th century, the church selected the approximate time of the winter solstice as the date to recognize Jesus' birth. They picked up this date from Pagan sources.
The winter solstice occurs about DEC-21 each year. It is the day of the year when the night is longest and the daytime shortest. Using the crude instruments available, ancient astronomers were able to detect by DEC-25 of each year that the daytime had become noticeably longer. This date was chosen, and remains, the traditional date for followers of many different Pagan religions to celebrate the rebirth of the sun. Following the solstice, each succeeding day has slightly more sunlight than the previous day. It was seen as a promise that warmth would return once more to the earth. Numerous pre-Christian Pagan religions honored their gods' birth or rebirth on or about that day. Their deities were typically called: Son of Man, Light of the World, Sun of Righteousness, Bridegroom, and Savior. Some examples are:
Roman Pagan Religion: Attis was a son of the virgin Nana. His birth was celebrated on DEC-25. He was sacrificed as an adult in order to bring salvation to mankind. He died about MAR-25, after being crucified on a tree, and descended for three days into the underworld. On Sunday, he arose, "as the solar deity for the new season." His followers tied an image of Attis to a tree on "Black Friday," and carried him in a procession to the temple. His body was symbolically eaten by his followers in the form of bread. Worship of Attis began in Rome circa 200 BCE.
Greek Pagan Religion: Dionysus is another savior-god whose birth was observed on DEC-25. He was worshipped throughout much of the Middle East as well. He had a center of worship in Jerusalem in the 1st century BCE. Some ancient coins have been found in Gaza with Dionysus on one side and JHWH (Jehovah) on the other. In later years, his flesh and blood were symbolically eaten in the form of bread and wine. He was viewed as the son of Zeus, the Father God.
Egyptian Pagan Religion: Osiris is a savior-god who had been worshipped as far back as Neolithic times. "He was called Lord of Lords, King of Kings, God of Gods...the Resurrection and the Life, the Good shepherd...the god who 'made men and women be born again'". Three wise men announced his birth. His followers ate cakes of wheat which symbolized his body. Many sayings associated with Osiris were taken over into the Bible. This included:
* 23rd Psalm: an appeal to Osiris as the good Shepherd to lead believers through the valley of the shadow of death and to green pastures and still waters
* Lord's Prayer: "O amen, who art in heaven..."
* Many parables attributed to Jesus.
Worship of Osiris, and celebration of his DEC-25 birth, were established throughout the Roman Empire by the end of the 1st century BCE.
Persian Pagan Religion: Mithra was a Persian savior. Worship of Mithra became common throughout the Roman Empire, particularly among the Roman civil service and military. Mithraism was a competitor of Christianity until the 4th century. Their god was believed to have been born on DEC-25, circa 500 BCE. His birth was witnessed by shepherds and by gift-carrying Magi. This was celebrated as the "Dies Natalis Solic Invite," The "Birthday of the Unconquered Sun." Some followers believed that he was born of a virgin. During his life, he performed many miracles, cured many illnesses, and cast out devils. He celebrated a Last Supper with his 12 disciples. He ascended to heaven at the time of the spring equinox, about March 21.
The Babylonians celebrated their "Victory of the Sun-God" Festival on DEC-25. Saturnalia (the Festival of Saturn) was celebrated from DEC-17 to 23 in the Roman Empire. The Roman Emperor Aurelian blended Saturnalia with a number of birth celebrations of savior Gods from other religions, into a single holy day: DEC-25.
After much argument, the developing Christian church adopted this date as the birthday of their savior, Jesus. The people of the Roman Empire were accustomed to celebrating the birth of a God on that day. So, it was easy for the church to divert people's attention to Jesus' birth.
The entire religion, plagiarized and sold to a bunch of ignorant morons. I assume you are all incapable of hearing how ridiculous you sound when you spew your bile. But that never stops you, you spread your bullshit propaganda and are destroying this planet in the process. I look forward to you ALL being purged from the earth because then and only then will this world know peace.
You christian-fascist scum are WORSE than the taliban. Since you fucktards love your cloud dwelling boogeyman so much why dont you assholes do the world a favor and go meet him!
 |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 237702
9/12/2007 12:52 AM | | Re: Zeitgeist is a complete lie! | Quote |
Aren’t there some striking parallels between the Jesus and Horus stories?
Hardly. For those unfamiliar with the Horus story, Horus is a character in Egyptian mythology, the son of the gods Isis and Osiris. There actually appear to be multiple dieties named 'Horus', but the one who is the son of Isis and Osiris is the one the critics claim influenced the Jesus story. For a quick and unbiased debunking of this story, go to any search engine and find a site on Egyptian mythology and read the Horus story for yourself (I've provided some links at the bottom of the page), or check the mythology section at your local library (go ahead, I dare you!). Acharya S's book "The Christ Conspiracy" is the apparent source of this list, but the author provides evidentiarly footnotes for only five of the claims, and those footnotes frequently disagree with her own claims!
Here are the claims of parallels between Jesus and Horus, with my responses:
1) Horus was born of the virgin Isis-Meri on December 25th in a cave/manger with his birth being announced by a star in the East and attended by three wise men.
Let’s take this one apart and deal with each separate issue:
Horus’ mother was not a virgin. She was married to Osiris, and there is no reason to suppose she was abstinent after marriage. Horus was, per the story, miraculously conceived. Seth had killed and dismembered Osiris, then Isis put her husband's dead body back together and had intercourse with it. In some versions, she used a hand-made phallus since she wasn't able to find that part of her husband. So while it was a miraculous conception, it was not a virgin birth.
Also, she was just "Isis", not "Isis-Meri". Acharya's footnotes don't provide evidence for the claim of Isis being a virgin or for "Meri" being part of her name. Only Christ-mythers make the claim that "Meri" was part of her name.
Horus was supposedly born on the last day of the Egyptian month of Khoiak, which corresponds on our calendars to November 15th.
Horus was born in a swamp, not a cave/manger. Acharya's footnotes for this point only make the claim that Jesus was born in a cave, and say nothing about Horus being born in one.
Horus' birth was not announced by a star in the east
There were no “three wise men” at Horus’ birth, or at Jesus’ for that matter (the Bible never gives the number of wise men, and they showed up at Jesus’ home, not at the manger, and probably when Jesus was a year or two old).
Acharya's source for the last two claims appears to be Massey, who says "the Star in the East that arose to announce the birth of the babe (Jesus) was Orion, which is therefore called the star of Horus. That was once the star of the three kings; for the 'three kings' is still a name of three stars in Orion's belt . . . " Massey's apparently getting mixed up, and then the critics are misinterpreting it. Orion is not a star, but a constellation, of which the 'three kings' are a part. And even if there is a specific star called 'the star of Horus', there's no legend stating that it announced Horus' birth (as the critics are claiming) or that the 'three wise men' (the three stars in Orion's belt) attended Horus' birth in any way.
2) His earthly father was named "Seb" ("Joseph").
First of all, there is no parallel between the Egyptian name “Seb” and the Hebrew name “Joseph”, other than the fact that they’re common names. Also, Seb was Osiris’ father, not Horus’.
3) He was of royal descent.
This one’s true! But it's not really a comparison to Jesus. When followers speak of Jesus being of 'royal descent', they usually mean His being a descendent of King David, an earthly king. Horus was, according to the myth, descended from heavenly royalty (as Jesus was), being the son of the main god.
4) At age 12, he was a child teacher in the Temple, and at 30, he was baptized, having disappeared for 18 years.
He never taught in any temple and was never baptized. Also, Jesus didn't 'disappear' in the years between His teaching in the temple and baptism. He worked humbly as a carpenter.
5) Horus was baptized in the river Eridanus or Iarutana (Jordan) by "Anup the Baptizer" ("John the Baptist"), who was decapitated.
Again, Horus was never baptized. There is no “Anup the Baptizer” in the story.
6) He had 12 disciples, two of whom were his "witnesses" and were named "Anup" and "Aan" (the two "Johns").
Horus had four disciples (called ‘Heru-Shemsu’). There’s another reference to sixteen followers, and a group of followers called ‘mesnui’ (blacksmiths) who join Horus in battle, but are never numbered. But there’s no reference to twelve followers or any of them being named “Anup” or “Aan”.
7) He performed miracles, exorcised demons and raised El-Azarus ("El-Osiris"), from the dead.
He did perform miracles, but he never exorcised demons or raised his father from the dead. Also, Osiris is never referred to as ‘El-Azarus’ or ‘El-Osiris’ (clearly an attempt to make his name more closely resemble the Bible’s “Lazarus”).
8) Horus walked on water.
No, he did not.
9) His personal epithet was "Iusa," the "ever-becoming son" of "Ptah," the "Father." He was thus called "Holy Child."
Horus was never referred to as “Iusa” (nor was anyone in Egyptian history - the word does not exist) or “Holy Child”.
10) He delivered a "Sermon on the Mount" and his followers recounted the "Sayings of Iusa."
Horus never delivered such a sermon, and, as pointed out above, he was never referred to as “Iusa”.
11) Horus was transfigured on the Mount.
No, he was not.
12) He was crucified between two thieves, buried for three days in a tomb, and resurrected.
Horus was never crucified. There’s an unofficial story in which he dies and is cast in pieces into the water, then later fished out by a crocodile at Isis’ request. This unofficial story is the only one in which he dies at all.
13) He was also the "Way, the Truth, the Light," "Messiah," "God’s Anointed Son," the "Son of Man," the "Good Shepherd," the "Lamb of God," the "Word made flesh," the "Word of Truth," etc.
The only titles Horus is given are “Great God”, “Chief of the Powers”, “Master of Heaven”, and “Avenger of His Father”. None of the above titles are in any Egyptian mythology.
14) He was "the Fisher" and was associated with the Fish ("Ichthys"), Lamb and Lion.
He was never referred to as “the fisher”, and there are no lamb or lion in any of the stories. Acharya S.'s footnotes on this claim only show an association with fish (which is that Horus WAS a fish, unlike Jesus), with no evidence of his being called 'the fisher' or having any association with a lamb or lion.
15) He came to fulfill the Law.
There was no “law” he was supposed to fulfill.
16) Horus was called "the KRST," or "Anointed One."
He was never referred to by either of these titles. "Krst", in Egyptian, means "burial", by the way. It wasn't a title.
17) Like Jesus, "Horus was supposed to reign one thousand years."
No mention of this in Egyptian mythology. |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 216865
9/12/2007 12:52 AM | | Re: Zeitgeist is a complete lie! | Quote |
Satan is a liar,
actually he is the father of lies.
Trin's colors come out. |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 296543
9/12/2007 12:57 AM | | Re: Zeitgeist is a complete lie! | Quote |
Aren’t there some striking parallels between the Jesus and Mithra stories?
Hardly. Before reading this list, a little background on the Mithraic religion is in order. Mithra was a Persian god dating back to roughly 1400 B.C. It later sprang up in Rome after Christian times, with a severely different story to it. Here is the list given, with my responses:
1. Mithra was born of a virgin on December 25th in a cave, and his birth was attended by shepherds.
There is no support for the idea that Mithra was born of a virgin. And since nowhere in the New Testament does it state that Jesus was born on December 25th, this could not be called a comparison. Also, Mithra was formed within a solid mountain, not within a cave. While, logically, a cave was left behind once Mithra dug himself out, saying he was born in a cave is wrong. There are texts suggesting that shepherds were present at Mithra’s birth and helped dig him out of the mountain, but these are Roman texts dating to no earlier than the 2nd century A.D., and thus were most likely influenced by the New Testament writings, instead of being an influence upon them.
2. He was considered a great traveling teacher and master.
First of all, any religious figure could logically be described as a great traveling teacher and master. However, this label does NOT seem to apply to Mithra. Great and Master, perhaps. But nowhere in his story does he travel or teach.
3. He had 12 companions or disciples.
In the Persian version of the Mithra story, he has one disciple, Varuna. In the Roman version, he has two, Cautes and Cautopatres. The source for this claim seems to be an old carving of Mithra slaying a bull while 12 people watch on. That these 12 people are companions or disciples is not suggested, and besides, this carving dates to post-Christian times anyways, so if they WERE meant to be disciples of some sort, they were likely influenced by Christianity, not the other way around.
4. Mithra's followers were promised immortality.
The earliest references to Mithra’s followers being promised immortality date to around 200 A.D. So again, this was likely influenced by Christianity, not the other way around.
5. He performed miracles.
This is true, and claims of Mithra’s miracles do date to the pre-Christian Persian versions. But miracles themselves date to far earlier (Noah story, anyone?). So the idea that Jesus’ miracles were inspired by Mithra’s miracles is rather ridiculous. Since Mithra never did anything which equates to Jesus’ miracles (such as walking on water or raising the dead), this could not be called a significant comparison.
6. As the "great bull of the Sun," Mithra sacrificed himself for world peace.
Mithra slayed a bull. He was not a bull. He did not slay himself or sacrifice himself in any sense, and the slaying of the bull wasn’t for world peace. For that matter, Jesus’ sacrifice wasn’t for world peace, either, but for salvation for those individuals who choose to follow Him.
7. He was buried in a tomb and after three days rose again.
There’s no references in any Mithraic literature to Mithra dying at all, much less being resurrected. There are some external sources suggesting that Mithra died (though how he died is not made clear), but these date to the 4th century at the earliest. I’d say that this would mean they were inspired by Christianity, but since they don’t mention any burial in a tomb or resurrection, I’d say we couldn’t call it ‘inspired’ at all.
8. His resurrection was celebrated every year.
Again, no resurrection.
9. He was called "the Good Shepherd"and identified with both the Lamb and the Lion.
Mithra was never called ‘the good shepherd’ or identified with any lamb. He was identified with a lion, but since the lion is associated with Judeo-Christianity all the way back to the book of Genesis, this hardly suggests that Jesus’ lion was inspired by Mithra’s lion. And besides, any references to lions in Mithraic literature date to post-Christian times, making this even less significant.
10. He was considered the "Way, the Truth and the Light," and the "Logos," "Redeemer," "Savior" and "Messiah."
Mithra was never called any of these things, even in the Roman version of Mithraism
11. His sacred day was Sunday, the "Lord's Day," hundreds of years before the appearance of Christ.
Mithraists did not appoint Sunday as Mithra’s day until post-Christian times.
12. Mithra had his principal festival of what was later to become Easter.
Mithra had several special days, but all were in September or October. Mithraists did apparently celebrate the beginning of each season, so there was a celebration at the beginning of spring, but this wasn’t any ‘principal festival’, and the celebration was only for the season itself, not for Mithra.
13. His religion had a eucharist or "Lord's Supper," at which Mithra said, "He who shall not eat of my body nor drink of my blood so that he may be one with me and I with him, shall not be saved."
The closest thing the Mithraic religion has to Jesus’ last supper is the celebration of a meal Mithra had with the sun god after slaying the bull. But nowhere is this called a ‘eucharist’ or ‘Lord’s Supper’, and since it happened AFTER Mithra’s ‘sacrifice’ and not before (as Jesus’ was), it’s hardly a comparison. As for the quote, the earliest quote along these lines in Mithraic texts dates to post-Christian times and, besides that, wasn’t said by Mithra, but by Zarathustra.
14. His annual sacrifice is the passover of the Magi, a symbolical atonement or pledge of moral and physical regeneration.
First, Mithra’s sacrifice was not of himself, but of a bull. I’m not sure why the skeptics are using the word ‘annual’ in here, since it only happened once. And the sacrifice did not happen on any sort of Passover, nor was it an atonement of anything.
15. Shmuel Golding is quoted as saying that 1 Cor. 10:4 is "identical words to those found in the Mithraic scriptures, except that the name Mithra is used instead of Christ."
So why hasn’t Golding allowed anyone else to see these texts? Are they the pre-Christian Persian texts, or the post-Christian Roman texts? Until Golding opens these texts up for scrutiny, we can do no more than take his word for it. My best guess is that, if these texts exist, they were inspired by 1 Cor 10:4, not the other way around.
16. The Catholic Encyclopedia is quoted as saying that Mithraic services were conducted by "fathers" and that the "chief of the fathers, a sort of pope, who always lived at Rome, was called 'Pater Patratus.'"
Yes, the Catholic Encyclopedia apparently does say these things. But what the critics fail to mention is that it’s describing Mithraic services conducted after Christian times, and thus services and figureheads likely inspired by Christian services and figureheads. The mention of the ‘chief of fathers’ always living at Rome is pretty clear evidence that it’s referring to only Roman Mithraism. Why would the Persian Mithraists have a figurehead in Rome? |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 293989
9/12/2007 1:03 AM | | Re: Zeitgeist is a complete lie! | Quote |
Well I can see you little cowards are really scared now - guess the video had a little too much FACT - snip Quoting: G O D 293822
LOL, your ass was just handed to you!!
P W N E D!!! |
| highstrung 
some kind of woo woo
User ID: 272356
9/12/2007 1:07 AM
 | | Re: Zeitgeist is a complete lie! | Quote |
Another example is the God Horus. Horus's story is pretty much inaccurate to hell other than the fact that he died and came to life again. You should all know that, in fact, there are many religious figures out there who have died and come back to life. Jesus wasn't the one who started the trend. Horus's story, if you ask any college professor or do...I dunno...basic Internet fact checking is not like he had said. Horus's mother was not a virgin as she had sex with a disembodied penis from Hours's father. He was never crucified. He had followers, but they were never called Disciples nor were there a specific numbers. It never really said he was born on December 25th
cool beans... me non believer... prove to me the point... sure anit happened since the computer age... and if it happened all the time back then what gives now?????
If there is a will.... There is most certainly a way! |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 256827
9/12/2007 1:12 AM | | Re: Zeitgeist is a complete lie! | Quote |
One can never find the truth without questioning everything one is told. A great many people can never do this and therefore can never claim to know the truth. |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 239052
9/12/2007 1:14 AM | | Re: Zeitgeist is a complete lie! | Quote |
Horus's mother was not a virgin as she had sex with a disembodied penis from Hours's father. Quoting: highstrung
Dismembered Penis...
You mean artificially inseminated !
The Egyptian's were master geneticists and there's something you will not learn from a basic Internet search. You've got to read the stories on the walls of the temples and tombs for yourself - with your own two eyes... |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 232837
9/12/2007 1:15 AM | | Re: Zeitgeist is a complete lie! | Quote |
By the 4th century, the church selected the approximate time of the winter solstice as the date to recognize Jesus' birth. They picked up this date from Pagan sources. Quoting: G O D 293822
quote your sources, smart guy. or are you just a non-religious zealot spouting off like your 'enemies'?
try and prove your statements before you write volumes on drawing conclusions from them.
and remember what history is . it is simply a story written by man with motivations ...JUST LIKE YOU.
distortions to accomodate belief or DISBELIEF.
look at your own rants and you will see they are not different than the 'idiots' you attack. |
| Curtis Loew
Bite me!
User ID: 263006
9/12/2007 1:22 AM
 | | Re: Zeitgeist is a complete lie! | Quote |
Nice copy and paste job OP.
Here's the site you got it from, unless of course you're the blog owner, in which case I apologize in advance.
[link to singinginthereign.blogspot.com]
My Dog Ate My Signature. |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 189402
9/12/2007 10:39 AM | | Re: Zeitgeist is a complete lie! | Quote |
Thanks for the article OP, very informative. |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 296763
9/12/2007 10:47 AM | | Re: Zeitgeist is a complete lie! | Quote |
But what you people forget is the history of Horus was often changed. It is known thought that Horus was known first to be the son of Ra (Ra was the almost universally-worshipped king of the gods and all-father of creation) Gee- just like Jesus. Then Horus became known to be the son of Osiris (gee, just like Jesus being the son of Joseph).
You people have to realize that all christianity is--is a ripoff of other religions. Religion has always been that way. It takes from others and adapts it to suit someone else. |
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