| | | Page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44, 45, 46, 47, 48, 49, 50, 51, 52, 53, 54, 55, 56, 57, 58, 59, 60, 61, 62, 63, 64, 65, 66, 67, 68, 69, 70, 71, 72, 73, 74, 75, 76, 77, 78, 79, 80, 81, 82, 83, 84, 85, 86, 87, 88, 89, 90, 91, 92, 93, 94, 95, 96, 97, 98, 99, 100, 101, 102, 103, 104, 105, 106, 107, 108, 109, 110, 111, 112, 113, 114, 115, 116, 117, 118, 119, 120, 121, 122, 123, 124, 125, 126, 127, 128, 129, 130, 131, 132, 133, 134, 135, 136, 137, 138, 139, 140, 141, 142, 143, 144 | APOLLO MOON LANDINGS ------- FAKED OR REAL !!??
| nomuse
User ID: 316856
10/24/2007 5:22 PM | | Re: APOLLO MOON LANDINGS ------- FAKED OR REAL !!?? | Quote |
Should I test that variant contention?
Perhaps I should connect a 9v transistor battery to the grounded and tested GFCI outlet in my kitchen. I could measure the voltage at regular intervals.
(Actually, I had my ATmega measuring and logging a 9v battery over a period of fourteen hours -- but that was to check the total system life and power drain curve of a specific project.)
I can think of two flaws in this test, however. Both of them are flaws in the meta-test. The first is that although most of us know the high internal impedence of a VOM and know how little current it draws, IDW might object that taking the reading would throw off the results significantly enough to render them useless.
The other, more pertinent meta-flaw in the test as described is that IDW would refuse to accept the data and simple claim the tester was lying.
IDW, again I must ask you to turn your intelligence towards this problem. In what way could I set up a test of a 9v battery discharging that would satisfy you that it was carried out honestly? |
| IDW
User ID: 316817
10/24/2007 5:24 PM | | Re: APOLLO MOON LANDINGS ------- FAKED OR REAL !!?? | Quote |
No, I'm not. When you speak to people more knowledgeable in a subject than you, you have to be sure that your understanding of the definitions is proper if you intend to be understood. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 98001
But yure clearly not even close to my level of understanding.
Claiming that "impedance matching" means to match them to the label on the amplifier is ludicrous when whole books have been written on the real electronic concept of "impedance matching". But you wouldn't know that, would you? Quoting: Fucktard
It IS matching impedance to the circuits requirements. .o1 ohms is NOT the rated impeadance, its the impeadance between the red and black terminal.
Youre a fucking moron, really! |
| IDW
User ID: 316817
10/24/2007 5:28 PM | | Re: APOLLO MOON LANDINGS ------- FAKED OR REAL !!?? | Quote |
Should I test that variant contention?
Perhaps I should connect a 9v transistor battery to the grounded and tested GFCI outlet in my kitchen. I could measure the voltage at regular intervals. Quoting: nomuse 316856
The rest of what you said is terrible tasting gravy. Lets concentrate on the proper experiment. YOU CANNOT connect the battery to a house ground to get a reliable result, because electrons may be flowing through the ground circuit already. A simpler way to prove it is thusly:
Drive a ground rod four feet into the ground, preferably copper. Connect the 9 volt batterys negative terminal to the grounding rod through a conductor of as close to zero ohms as possoible. Measure voltage of battery. Measure it four hours from now, or even every hour, for three days. |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 316817
10/24/2007 5:31 PM | | Re: APOLLO MOON LANDINGS ------- FAKED OR REAL !!?? | Quote |
Electons WILL flow out of the battery and to ground, WITHOUT a return circuit. I did this experiment myself. |
| IDW
User ID: 316817
10/24/2007 5:38 PM | | Re: APOLLO MOON LANDINGS ------- FAKED OR REAL !!?? | Quote |
Nomuse, it may take longer than three days in your case depending upon how conductive your soil is. Mine here in NE Texas is very high in iron ore content, making resistance very low between the copper rod and earth ground.. |
| nomuse
User ID: 316856
10/24/2007 5:45 PM | | Re: APOLLO MOON LANDINGS ------- FAKED OR REAL !!?? | Quote |
Some of you might be wondering what this has to do with Apollo.
The answer is simple. The reality of the Apollo Missions can not be conclusively proven. NOTHING can be conclusively proven, not in this universe. There will always be some possible alternative that has yet to be explored.
If nothing else, there are meta-alternatives that by their very nature can not be falsified; such as, the theory that the universe we know is merely a dream, or a simulation in a computer, or a story being read aloud to a four-year-old child.
However, those who chose to believe that the Apollo Program was faked in part or total, attempt to argue their point by showing where the program as described violates science as currently understood and engineering as currently practiced.
To make this claim, the claiment must (self-evidently) know the science or engineering of which he speaks. He also must be able to show that the documentation of the Apollo Program makes a differing claim.
This rapidly boils down, in the debating arenas of message boards and late-night radios, to a debate on whether the claiment is correctly applying the science in question, and whether their understanding that Apollo violates that science is, in fact, correct.
In plain English, when someone shows up on YouTube or on Coast to Coast and says "The Apollo Missions were faked!" they will at once trot out an argument as to why; for instance, in IDW's case, that the lander was dynamically unstable and would be unable to make a soft landing as described.
In the case of most hoax claimers, the argument rapidly moves to the form;
"Here is the science showing how a soft landing is possible."
"Your science is wrong. My science says it isn't possible."
In the specific case of IDW, he asks that his pronouncements be given weight simply because he made them. In the typical format of an IDW argument; "It was impossible; I know the science and you don't know anything."
It is perhaps neither polite nor efficient, but often the arguer moves on at that point to showing that IDW does in fact not know the science in question. |
| nomuse
User ID: 316856
10/24/2007 5:49 PM | | Re: APOLLO MOON LANDINGS ------- FAKED OR REAL !!?? | Quote |
Nomuse, it may take longer than three days in your case depending upon how conductive your soil is. Mine here in NE Texas is very high in iron ore content, making resistance very low between the copper rod and earth ground.. Quoting: IDW 316817
Let me see.
You are asking me to purchase a six-foot copper rod and pound it into my backyard, wire a battery to it and test the voltage at regular intervals over several days, logging the results....
SO YOU CAN IGNORE MY RESULTS AGAIN AND CALL ME A "FUCKING LIAR?"
Why would I do this? Give me one good reason why I would subject myself to your idiotic conditions, jump through your hoops, when you have demonstrated here, on this very thread, that you will throw out any results that don't agree with your preconceptions? |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 88145
10/24/2007 6:23 PM | | Re: APOLLO MOON LANDINGS ------- FAKED OR REAL !!?? | Quote |
No, I'm not. When you speak to people more knowledgeable in a subject than you, you have to be sure that your understanding of the definitions is proper if you intend to be understood.
But yure clearly not even close to my level of understanding.
Claiming that "impedance matching" means to match them to the label on the amplifier is ludicrous when whole books have been written on the real electronic concept of "impedance matching". But you wouldn't know that, would you?
It IS matching impedance to the circuits requirements. .o1 ohms is NOT the rated impeadance, its the impeadance between the red and black terminal.
Youre a fucking moron, really! Quoting: IDW 316817
IDW, you don't have a clue what impedance matching is, do you? |
| IDW
User ID: 316817
10/24/2007 6:24 PM | | Re: APOLLO MOON LANDINGS ------- FAKED OR REAL !!?? | Quote |
Some of you might be wondering what this has to do with Apollo.
The answer is simple. The reality of the Apollo Missions can not be conclusively proven. NOTHING can be conclusively proven, not in this universe. Quoting: nomuse 316856
Not unless it happens to be a fact it can't. Facts can and are proved. AN example is [the acceleration due to gravity on earth is a constant].
For instance, footprints and other signs of human activity made on the moon and observed by several independant investigators would prove conclusively a manned mission occured.If they were ever there, they are there now.
It is perhaps neither polite nor efficient, but often the arguer moves on at that point to showing that IDW does in fact not know the science in question. Quoting: NoUse
And yet you cannot show in even one instance where you have proved that claim. NOT ONCE.All youve really shown is that I dont subscribe to the same rediculous beliefs that you do, in otherwords nothing. |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 88145
10/24/2007 6:25 PM | | Re: APOLLO MOON LANDINGS ------- FAKED OR REAL !!?? | Quote |
No, I'm not. When you speak to people more knowledgeable in a subject than you, you have to be sure that your understanding of the definitions is proper if you intend to be understood.
But yure clearly not even close to my level of understanding. Quoting: IDW 316817
Thank God for that. You are the absolute dumbest twit to ever grace the internet.
BTW, have you measured your grounded motherboard yet? |
| IDW
User ID: 316817
10/24/2007 6:27 PM | | Re: APOLLO MOON LANDINGS ------- FAKED OR REAL !!?? | Quote |
Nomuse, it may take longer than three days in your case depending upon how conductive your soil is. Mine here in NE Texas is very high in iron ore content, making resistance very low between the copper rod and earth ground..
Let me see.
You are asking me to purchase a six-foot copper rod and pound it into my backyard, wire a battery to it and test the voltage at regular intervals over several days, logging the results....
SO YOU CAN IGNORE MY RESULTS AGAIN AND CALL ME A "FUCKING LIAR?"
Why would I do this? Give me one good reason why I would subject myself to your idiotic conditions, jump through your hoops, when you have demonstrated here, on this very thread, that you will throw out any results that don't agree with your preconceptions? Quoting: nomuse 316856
If you want to know the truth it doesnt matter what I think. I already know the answer, Ive done the experiment. How do you think a short is routed to ground, and flows? Is there a connection between the voltage potential of the substation and your earth ground? The ground of the substation, through the earth is the path? HOW!? |
| IDW
User ID: 316817
10/24/2007 6:29 PM | | Re: APOLLO MOON LANDINGS ------- FAKED OR REAL !!?? | Quote |
No, I'm not. When you speak to people more knowledgeable in a subject than you, you have to be sure that your understanding of the definitions is proper if you intend to be understood.
But yure clearly not even close to my level of understanding.
Thank God for that. You are the absolute dumbest twit to ever grace the internet.
BTW, have you measured your grounded motherboard yet? Quoting: Anonymous Coward 88145
And yet several of you are paid to systematically discredit me through dishonest tactics, begging the question, WHY?
Imagine how this would turn out if you applied yourselves toward actualy attempting to prove on way or another whether I am right , without the prejudice that coems from neccessity? You are no better than racist or a religious fanatic. Facts dont matter. |
| IDW
User ID: 316817
10/24/2007 6:41 PM | | Re: APOLLO MOON LANDINGS ------- FAKED OR REAL !!?? | Quote |
You are the absolute dumbest twit to ever grace the internet. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 88145
I dont think so, after all you believe in fairy dust and majic, and a manned mission to the moon in 1969 as a kicker. I think my opinion should be valued more than your own based on that alone, never mind the wide gap between our Iq's. Youre of average intelligence at best, and CANNOT comprehend the actual facts youre attempting to discuss. |
| IDW
User ID: 316817
10/24/2007 6:44 PM | | Re: APOLLO MOON LANDINGS ------- FAKED OR REAL !!?? | Quote |
BTW, have you measured your grounded motherboard yet? Quoting: Anonymous Coward 88145
The dc circuitry of a motherboard is not earth grounded, this subject is closed until you provide information proving your contention. Youve had three days. |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 262563
10/24/2007 6:45 PM | | Re: APOLLO MOON LANDINGS ------- FAKED OR REAL !!?? | Quote |
I already know the answer, Ive done the experiment. Quoting: IDW 316817
Stop lying, IDW. You've never done ANY of the experiments you've claimed to do. You answer and crow first. You don't ever verify. It's not in your nature. |
| nomuse
User ID: 316856
10/24/2007 6:52 PM | | Re: APOLLO MOON LANDINGS ------- FAKED OR REAL !!?? | Quote |
Not unless it happens to be a fact it can't. Facts can and are proved. AN example is [the acceleration due to gravity on earth is a constant]. Quoting: IDW 316817
You miss the point (not unsurprising.)
You can't prove gravity always works. All you can state is that it has worked every time SO FAR. You have no proof that gravity will not switch off tomorrow leaving us all floating.
You also can't prove that gravity is the result of mass. It could be the result of legions of invisible angels pushing down on everything on Earth.
Absolute proof is not possible in this universe. There will always be a possibility of new data, or a new theory.
For instance, footprints and other signs of human activity made on the moon and observed by several independant investigators would prove conclusively a manned mission occured.If they were ever there, they are there now. Quoting: IDW 316817
No, they would be strong indicators. How can you prove that the "independent" investigators weren't bought off? Or that a secret mission preceded them to quickly walk around a bit? Or that NASA didn't outfit one of those handy rock-collecting robots the hoax believers love to believe in with a pair of size 11 1/2 wides?
That's just off the top of my head. Given the energy of the hoax community I'm sure many, many other arguments against the "proof" you offer could be constructed.
Again, the universe does not support the idea of absolute proof.
And yet you cannot show in even one instance where you have proved that claim. NOT ONCE.All youve really shown is that I dont subscribe to the same rediculous beliefs that you do, in otherwords nothing. Quoting: IDW 316817
Which is not the same as understanding the science. Regardless of whether your theories are superior, you have been shown over and over to be less than educated in the theories you oppose.
Which makes your own opposition to them seem more rooted in emotion and less in fact. Basically, you are the man standing out there saying "I refuse to follow the rest of you in believing the sky is green!"
How can you "disagree" with mainstream science when you patently don't understand it? |
| IDW
User ID: 316817
10/24/2007 6:53 PM | | Re: APOLLO MOON LANDINGS ------- FAKED OR REAL !!?? | Quote |
I already know the answer, Ive done the experiment.
Stop lying, IDW. You've never done ANY of the experiments you've claimed to do. You answer and crow first. You don't ever verify. It's not in your nature. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 262563
One of the stupidist lies a person can utter is that another is a liar when hes not, without a method to prove it or evidence of the lie. Youve done this using a consistently dishonest pattern.
Therfor, youre a liar and I have proved it. |
| nomuse
User ID: 316856
10/24/2007 6:55 PM | | Re: APOLLO MOON LANDINGS ------- FAKED OR REAL !!?? | Quote |
BTW, have you measured your grounded motherboard yet?
The dc circuitry of a motherboard is not earth grounded, this subject is closed until you provide information proving your contention. Youve had three days. Quoting: IDW 316817
I photographed my personal VOM, with the leads placed against the negative terminal of a button battery and the ground lug of the power jack, and the display reading "Zero Ohms."
I described the experiment and provided the link to that photograph.
Why is this evidence unacceptable, IDW? |
| IDW
User ID: 316817
10/24/2007 6:56 PM | | Re: APOLLO MOON LANDINGS ------- FAKED OR REAL !!?? | Quote |
You can't prove gravity always works. All you can state is that it has worked every time SO FAR. You have no proof that gravity will not switch off tomorrow leaving us all floating.
You also can't prove that gravity is the result of mass. It could be the result of legions of invisible angels pushing down on everything on Earth. Quoting: nomuse 316856
Can I add this to MY list? WHat a fucking idiot you are.
Do you ever read your material? Its not science fiction even, its nonsense. legions of invisable angels!
When youre ready to understand what gravity really is , let me know, and I'll try to explain it. I have no doubt my effort will be in vain, though. |
| IDW
User ID: 316817
10/24/2007 6:58 PM | | Re: APOLLO MOON LANDINGS ------- FAKED OR REAL !!?? | Quote |
BTW, have you measured your grounded motherboard yet?
The dc circuitry of a motherboard is not earth grounded, this subject is closed until you provide information proving your contention. Youve had three days.
I photographed my personal VOM, with the leads placed against the negative terminal of a button battery and the ground lug of the power jack, and the display reading "Zero Ohms."
I described the experiment and provided the link to that photograph.
Why is this evidence unacceptable, IDW? Quoting: nomuse 316856
Because the results are easily faked, and in your case(having never admitted error on even the most obvious of cases) I have no dount you would fake an experiment to prove yourself right, which goes to the crucial issue here. |
| nomuse
User ID: 316856
10/24/2007 7:02 PM | | Re: APOLLO MOON LANDINGS ------- FAKED OR REAL !!?? | Quote |
Stop lying, IDW. You've never done ANY of the experiments you've claimed to do. You answer and crow first. You don't ever verify. It's not in your nature.
One of the stupidist lies a person can utter is that another is a liar when hes not, without a method to prove it or evidence of the lie. Youve done this using a consistently dishonest pattern.
Therfor, youre a liar and I have proved it. Quoting: IDW 316817
Was there an oxymoron there or what?
IDW, you called me a liar without any proof to support your accusation. I'm from New England, and we don't take that lightly. Although I fear you will never be enough of a man to retract that, I will not let that insult be forgotten.
I did the test I described. I did the test a second time and photographed the results. What possible evidence do you have to support your accusation to the contrary? |
| IDW
User ID: 316817
10/24/2007 7:03 PM | | Re: APOLLO MOON LANDINGS ------- FAKED OR REAL !!?? | Quote |
How can you "disagree" with mainstream science when you patently don't understand it? Quoting: No use
Mainstream science as a whole is not all wrong. Ive never made that claim. What I DID claim is that nonsense science is impossible to actually understand, and I proved it thoroughly.Thats why EIstein said logic didnt apply to his level of understanding. My IQ is higher than his was by a wide margin, in fact he was a savant with a low iq, and yet logic holds up at my level of understanding! |
| IDW
User ID: 316817
10/24/2007 7:06 PM | | Re: APOLLO MOON LANDINGS ------- FAKED OR REAL !!?? | Quote |
Stop lying, IDW. You've never done ANY of the experiments you've claimed to do. You answer and crow first. You don't ever verify. It's not in your nature.
One of the stupidist lies a person can utter is that another is a liar when hes not, without a method to prove it or evidence of the lie. Youve done this using a consistently dishonest pattern.
Therfor, youre a liar and I have proved it.
Was there an oxymoron there or what?
IDW, you called me a liar without any proof to support your accusation. I'm from New England, and we don't take that lightly. Although I fear you will never be enough of a man to retract that, I will not let that insult be forgotten.
I did the test I described. I did the test a second time and photographed the results. What possible evidence do you have to support your accusation to the contrary? Quoting: nomuse 316856
ANd yet you dont see that you did the same thing?
The difference is I AM honest to a fault, and you are not.
I am not interested in promoting what I currently believe, but in understanding the truth. In other words learning. Youre too caught up in trying to defend rediculous concepts to have time to LEARN. It is often said that a person cannot learn while talking. |
| nomuse
User ID: 316856
10/24/2007 7:07 PM | | Re: APOLLO MOON LANDINGS ------- FAKED OR REAL !!?? | Quote |
Because the results are easily faked, and in your case(having never admitted error on even the most obvious of cases) I have no dount you would fake an experiment to prove yourself right, which goes to the crucial issue here. Quoting: IDW 316817
1) I've admitted errors made in the past. I'm honest enough to report the results of an experiment regardless of outcome (if I wasn't, then there'd be no point for me in doing the experiment in the first place).
2) I've asked you, repeatedly, for any proof I could supply that would not be rejected. Apparently coming up with a proof is beyond your intellectual capacity. Perhaps I should try instead!
3) I've asked other posters to this forum to reproduce the experiment and find the results. So far, two have reported in with physical inspections. I will stand by the findings of others on this thread (NOT you, IDW) if they fail to reproduce my results. |
| IDW
User ID: 316817
10/24/2007 7:08 PM | | Re: APOLLO MOON LANDINGS ------- FAKED OR REAL !!?? | Quote |
IDW, you called me a liar without any proof to support your accusation. I'm from New England, and we don't take that lightly. Quoting: NoUse
Yeah, I called you a liar, and thats what you are. Youre also a nimcompoop. WHat are you going to do about it? |
| IDW
User ID: 316817
10/24/2007 7:10 PM | | Re: APOLLO MOON LANDINGS ------- FAKED OR REAL !!?? | Quote |
Nomuse, what you actually did is damage the motherboard on your computer doing something stupid that I knew in advance would do so, and make a lame excuse of how youd been banned to explain your absence after you did. I told you point blank what happened, and why. |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 262563
10/24/2007 7:11 PM | | Re: APOLLO MOON LANDINGS ------- FAKED OR REAL !!?? | Quote |
One of the stupidist lies a person can utter is that another is a liar when hes not, without a method to prove it or evidence of the lie. Quoting: IDW 316817
You mean the way you accuse people of being government agents without a method to prove it?
You mean the way you accuse people of being "fudgepackers" without a method to prove it?
You mean the way you accuse people of being "bonafide Nazi's" without a method to prove it?
You mean the way you accuse all sorts of posters of being liars without a method to prove it? |
| nomuse
User ID: 316856
10/24/2007 7:12 PM | | Re: APOLLO MOON LANDINGS ------- FAKED OR REAL !!?? | Quote |
ANd yet you dont see that you did the same thing?
The difference is I AM honest to a fault, and you are not.
I am not interested in promoting what I currently believe, but in understanding the truth. In other words learning. Youre too caught up in trying to defend rediculous concepts to have time to LEARN. It is often said that a person cannot learn while talking. Quoting: IDW 316817
I don't believe you. I know it makes no impact on your over-inflated ego, but you have given me no reason to believe you are honest in any test, report, data collected, or anything else you do or say.
However, unlike you, I can describe a test I would find sufficient.
Provide a photograph of you, with your computer open and a test probe in your hand, checking to see if there is continuity between ground plane of the motherboard and chassis ground.
(I won't accept this as proof your absurd theories of standard electronic practice are correct; this is one thing and one thing only; a proof of ONE occasion where IDW wasn't a big fat liar.) |
| IDW
User ID: 316817
10/24/2007 7:15 PM | | Re: APOLLO MOON LANDINGS ------- FAKED OR REAL !!?? | Quote |
One of the stupidist lies a person can utter is that another is a liar when hes not, without a method to prove it or evidence of the lie.
You mean the way you accuse people of being government agents without a method to prove it?
You mean the way you accuse people of being "fudgepackers" without a method to prove it?
You mean the way you accuse people of being "bonafide Nazi's" without a method to prove it?
You mean the way you accuse all sorts of posters of being liars without a method to prove it? Quoting: Anonymous Coward 262563
The fudgepacker one really bothered you, didnt it?
LMAO!! |
| IDW
User ID: 316817
10/24/2007 7:16 PM | | Re: APOLLO MOON LANDINGS ------- FAKED OR REAL !!?? | Quote |
ANd yet you dont see that you did the same thing?
The difference is I AM honest to a fault, and you are not.
I am not interested in promoting what I currently believe, but in understanding the truth. In other words learning. Youre too caught up in trying to defend rediculous concepts to have time to LEARN. It is often said that a person cannot learn while talking.
I don't believe you. I know it makes no impact on your over-inflated ego, but you have given me no reason to believe you are honest in any test, report, data collected, or anything else you do or say.
However, unlike you, I can describe a test I would find sufficient.
Provide a photograph of you, with your computer open and a test probe in your hand, checking to see if there is continuity between ground plane of the motherboard and chassis ground.
(I won't accept this as proof your absurd theories of standard electronic practice are correct; this is one thing and one thing only; a proof of ONE occasion where IDW wasn't a big fat liar.) Quoting: nomuse 316856
I would never run such a test, and have never claimed I would. SO how does this prove anything about my honesty? |
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