| | | Page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44, 45, 46, 47, 48, 49, 50, 51, 52, 53, 54, 55, 56, 57, 58, 59, 60, 61, 62, 63, 64, 65, 66, 67, 68, 69, 70, 71, 72, 73, 74, 75, 76, 77, 78, 79, 80, 81, 82, 83, 84, 85, 86, 87, 88, 89, 90, 91, 92, 93, 94, 95, 96, 97, 98, 99, 100, 101, 102, 103, 104, 105, 106, 107, 108, 109, 110, 111, 112, 113, 114, 115, 116, 117, 118, 119, 120, 121, 122, 123, 124, 125, 126, 127, 128, 129, 130, 131, 132, 133, 134, 135, 136, 137, 138, 139, 140, 141, 142, 143, 144 | APOLLO MOON LANDINGS ------- FAKED OR REAL !!??
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 314242
10/24/2007 10:15 PM | | Re: APOLLO MOON LANDINGS ------- FAKED OR REAL !!?? | Quote |
Again, get your eyes used to bright sunlight and then within a couple of seconds, without allowing time for your eyes to adjust, go into a darked room and see if you can see a tiny faint light. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 88145
Space shuttle astronauts openly boast of the carpet of stars they saw, in contrast to Apollo astronauts:
[link to www.spacestory.com]
---
Musgrave: The view of the heavens: the stars are brighter and you see the entire celestial sphere. On an EVA, your helmet is fairly panoramic. But if you don't think about having these experiences they won't happen to you. At the last astronaut reunion, someone said, "Story, you know something I really regret? I had three space flights and never saw the stars."
--- |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 314242
10/24/2007 10:16 PM | | Re: APOLLO MOON LANDINGS ------- FAKED OR REAL !!?? | Quote |
But of course, what we require are statements under oath and cross-examination. |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 314242
10/24/2007 10:21 PM | | Re: APOLLO MOON LANDINGS ------- FAKED OR REAL !!?? | Quote |
I really don't see why--other than payment as a shill--why you think you have to make NASA's case on its behalf. If NASA actually accomplished what it claims, it should have no difficulty proving so in court, via sworn testimony under cross-examination. Until it does so, we should all just agree to consider it an extravagant and unproven claim. |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 88145
10/24/2007 10:28 PM | | Re: APOLLO MOON LANDINGS ------- FAKED OR REAL !!?? | Quote |
Again, get your eyes used to bright sunlight and then within a couple of seconds, without allowing time for your eyes to adjust, go into a darked room and see if you can see a tiny faint light.
Space shuttle astronauts openly boast of the carpet of stars they saw, in contrast to Apollo astronauts:
[ link to www.spacestory.com]
---
Musgrave: The view of the heavens: the stars are brighter and you see the entire celestial sphere. On an EVA, your helmet is fairly panoramic. But if you don't think about having these experiences they won't happen to you. At the last astronaut reunion, someone said, "Story, you know something I really regret? I had three space flights and never saw the stars."
---
Could it be that shuttle astronauts are routinely doing EVA's where they go into darkness every 90 minutes for 45 minutes at a time and can get in a position to not see the earth or the spacecraft and their eyes can adjust, whereas the Apollo astronauts didn't have this chance? Use your head for more than a hat rack. |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 88145
10/24/2007 10:29 PM | | Re: APOLLO MOON LANDINGS ------- FAKED OR REAL !!?? | Quote |
I really don't see why--other than payment as a shill--why you think you have to make NASA's case on its behalf. If NASA actually accomplished what it claims, it should have no difficulty proving so in court, via sworn testimony under cross-examination. Until it does so, we should all just agree to consider it an extravagant and unproven claim. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 314242
What's up with this court crap of yours? The evidence is overwhelming and speaks for itself. |
| nomuse
User ID: 316856
10/24/2007 11:12 PM | | Re: APOLLO MOON LANDINGS ------- FAKED OR REAL !!?? | Quote |
NASA claims no stars should be visible in photographs taken on the surface of the Moon.
You want to cross-examine them?
Why not examine the claim. This is easy for an individual to verify; set a camera to the exposure settings of the scene, and see if stars appear on your photograph.
You must be an utter idiot. Your suggestion assumes that I myself can go to the moon to repeat the experiment. Neither I nor anyone else, including NASA, can do any such thing. Indeed, the strongest argument against NASA's boast is that no one has ever been able to reproduce it independently.
Besides, you assume that the verification of a single NASA assertion suffices to prove their entire account. False logic. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 314242
No, I don't.
The test proposed is only to test the specific claim of stars/no stars.
The primary claim from NASA is that they landed on the Moon. By the nature of reality, completely unimpeachable proof of a positive is impossible. However, negative proof -- falsification -- is always possible.
If NASA passes every test, the Moon Landing is still unproven. There can always be an additional test. However, if NASA fails one test, then the Moon Landings are disproven.
Which makes the search for negative proofs productive.
The issue is, however, that each negative proof must itself be tested.
You could show the lunar landings faked if you could find something as simple as a lack of background stars in the surface photographs. But you have to show that expectation is correct; that stars should have shown under those conditions.
And that is the great failure of, so far, all the hoax arguments. None of them manage to show that they agree with science as currently understood.
I must repeat; none of this proves, is intended to prove, or is in any way capable of proving the Moon Landings took place. It merely disproves the claim that the landings are disproved. |
| nomuse
User ID: 316856
10/24/2007 11:19 PM | | Re: APOLLO MOON LANDINGS ------- FAKED OR REAL !!?? | Quote |
You also assume, foolishly or maliciously, that the primary argument about seeing stars has to do with photographs; when actually, the primary issue is that the astronauts themselves assert that they didn't see any, or in other accounts they saw stars only on the dark side of the moon.
I will be happy to hear their sworn testimony in court, under cross-examination. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 314242
Untrue, incomplete, and incorrect.
A number of astronauts have been quoted describing circumstances in which they saw stars. The circumstances are similar. The visibility is readily understandable by even an amateur with the appropriate background (aka observational astronomy). Some specific statements have been quoted out of the context in which they occur.
I was about to add, there is no dark side of the moon. But of course there is.... [link to www.pinkfloyd.co.uk] |
| nomuse
User ID: 316856
10/24/2007 11:27 PM | | Re: APOLLO MOON LANDINGS ------- FAKED OR REAL !!?? | Quote |
Neither the existence of the Pyramids nor the existence of the moon is in question. Their existence is independently verifiable.
Particular hypotheses as to how the Pyramids were constructed are just that, mere hypotheses. Any attempt to prove any particular hypothesis must indeed include a demonstration--i.e., the building of a comparable pyramid from scratch. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 314242
So.....
The existence of Khufu, an artifact, is indisputable.
The existence of the Apollo hardware, also artifacts, are in doubt. Why?
The building of the pyramids is verified (though the method is not known). Why? (See below).
The Apollo Project is not verified (though the method is known).
Can you prove the Pyramids weren't made in 1920 as a bid to increase tourism to Cairo? Can you prove they exist even now? Ever been there? If you say "yes," why should I trust you? Photographs can be faked. People can lie. I don't see any way of proving absolutely that the Pyramids exist. |
| nomuse
User ID: 316856
10/24/2007 11:33 PM | | Re: APOLLO MOON LANDINGS ------- FAKED OR REAL !!?? | Quote |
But of course, what we require are statements under oath and cross-examination. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 314242
Oh, of course. No-one lies under oath. No-one lies to a court, to a jury, or in Congressional Testimony.
After all, the court can threaten with contempt of court and jail time.
That's REALLY going to work on conspirators facing time for embezzlement in the billions of dollars, lying to Congress and the American People, and, oh yes, multiple acts of MURDER.
Look, this is a conspiracy -- according to the supporters -- that can threaten people into life-long silence. That can brainwash test pilots until they can't remember what they did and when. That can reach into every advanced nation on world to continue to uphold the conspiracy.
So they can't threaten, brainwash, or vanish those people you want to subpoena?
As much as I enjoy being a citizen of a nation of laws, I do not believe the courts would be effective in this wonderland scenario. If the hoax is that powerful, the courts would be as helpless as the rest of us. Perhaps more so, as they are already demonstratably establishment tools. |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 74444
10/24/2007 11:48 PM | | Re: APOLLO MOON LANDINGS ------- FAKED OR REAL !!?? | Quote |
I will be happy to hear their sworn testimony in court, under cross-examination. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 314242
You know what then, IDW?
Do it.
Go for it.
Sue NASA. You think you have a case, so do it already.
Draw up documents -- I'm sure you don't need a lawyer with the hyper-intelligence of yours -- and charge NASA. Sue them. Put their money where your mouth is.
What's stopping you? |
| nomuse
User ID: 316856
10/24/2007 11:56 PM | | Re: APOLLO MOON LANDINGS ------- FAKED OR REAL !!?? | Quote |
Reality. |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 314242
10/24/2007 11:59 PM | | Re: APOLLO MOON LANDINGS ------- FAKED OR REAL !!?? | Quote |
What's stopping you? Quoting: Anonymous Coward 74444
Unfortunately, the legal rule is that a citizen cannot sue the federal government, or any agency thereof, unless a specific statute grants the citizen such permission.
I doubt that Congress and the President will pass the necessary law any time soon. |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 74444
10/25/2007 12:00 AM | | Re: APOLLO MOON LANDINGS ------- FAKED OR REAL !!?? | Quote |
Just scrolling back through some pages -- wow, I did miss quite a bit, didn't I? But Nomuse, I wanted you to know I saw your entries for the Big List.
I'm going to go back and try to catch up on how the thread got here... |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 74444
10/25/2007 12:01 AM | | Re: APOLLO MOON LANDINGS ------- FAKED OR REAL !!?? | Quote |
Unfortunately, the legal rule is that a citizen cannot sue the federal government, or any agency thereof, unless a specific statute grants the citizen such permission.
I doubt that Congress and the President will pass the necessary law any time soon. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 314242
Then why do you keep harping on it?
IDW: The only way we'll know is if we sue.
Me: Then sue.
IDW: Can't sue.
So what is all your blathering about? |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 74444
10/25/2007 12:04 AM | | Re: APOLLO MOON LANDINGS ------- FAKED OR REAL !!?? | Quote |
What's stopping you?
Unfortunately, the legal rule is that a citizen cannot sue the federal government, or any agency thereof, unless a specific statute grants the citizen such permission.
I doubt that Congress and the President will pass the necessary law any time soon. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 314242
Oh, and by the by, that wouldn't stop you from suing. You can still bring suit, and wait for a judge to dismiss the case because of such things, but you could still bring the lawsuit. A judge might even decide to let it go forward, if it had any merit.
So do it. Go for it. You say you can prove it in a court of law. SO stop screwing around on Conspiracy Message Boards and bring your lawsuit. People sue the IRS all the time. |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 314242
10/25/2007 12:06 AM | | Re: APOLLO MOON LANDINGS ------- FAKED OR REAL !!?? | Quote |
That's REALLY going to work on conspirators facing time for embezzlement in the billions of dollars, lying to Congress and the American People, and, oh yes, multiple acts of MURDER. Quoting: nomuse 316856
Are you really as stupid as your posts make you look?
The purpose of requiring sworn testimony in court is not to make criminals testify against themselves. The 5th Amendment protects them anyway. Rather, the goal is to extract the truth from (a) all the innocent people who nonetheless have some knowledge of the crime's elements or circumstances, and (b) people who, though somewhat guilty themselves, can be persuaded (with immunity) to testify against the bigger criminals. |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 314242
10/25/2007 12:10 AM | | Re: APOLLO MOON LANDINGS ------- FAKED OR REAL !!?? | Quote |
Then why do you keep harping on it? Quoting: Anonymous Coward 74444
Eventually--perhaps even in our lifetime--the political winds will change sufficiently to investigate the Apollo program thoroughly. |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 314242
10/25/2007 12:12 AM | | Re: APOLLO MOON LANDINGS ------- FAKED OR REAL !!?? | Quote |
You say you can prove it in a court of law. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 74444
No, it is you who say that you can prove NASA's truth and virtue in a court of law. I strongly suspect that they cannot. |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 314242
10/25/2007 12:14 AM | | Re: APOLLO MOON LANDINGS ------- FAKED OR REAL !!?? | Quote |
The evidence is overwhelming and speaks for itself. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 88145
Evidence never speaks for itself. Whoever collected and preserved that evidence must testify to its authenticity under oath and cross-examination, otherwise the evidence is inadmissible. |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 314242
10/25/2007 12:16 AM | | Re: APOLLO MOON LANDINGS ------- FAKED OR REAL !!?? | Quote |
I must repeat; none of this proves, is intended to prove, or is in any way capable of proving the Moon Landings took place. Quoting: nomuse 316856
An excellent place to end this thread. We agree that NASA's extraordinary claim of a moon landing is unproven. |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 88145
10/25/2007 12:21 AM | | Re: APOLLO MOON LANDINGS ------- FAKED OR REAL !!?? | Quote |
I must repeat; none of this proves, is intended to prove, or is in any way capable of proving the Moon Landings took place.
An excellent place to end this thread. We agree that NASA's extraordinary claim of a moon landing is unproven. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 314242
Just the opposite...YOU are the one with the extraordinary claim that a half million people in hundreds of different companies and several foreign countries worked on a fake project that was broadcast live over international television...not once, but seven times while the missions were tracked by professionals and amateurs all over the world, with over 800 pounds of material or non-earth origin to show for it.
Yes, it is most certainly YOU who have the burdon of proof to prove that it didn't happen. |
| IDW
User ID: 316817
10/25/2007 12:51 AM | | Re: APOLLO MOON LANDINGS ------- FAKED OR REAL !!?? | Quote |
"Power is provided through wires and connectors to the mother board and disk drives. There are positive and negative 12 volts direct current, +/-5VCD and ground. All voltages are in reference to chassis voltage (chassis ground). In other words, if you have a 230Watt power supply and touch the +12Volt connection and ground(any metal part of the case), the power supply will do its level best to provide your body with twelve volts at 230Watts."
So, do you still claim that DC circuits on the motherboard are not connected to the chassis? Quoting: Anonymous Coward 88145
Theyre not. And what you psoted tends to support this contention, though Im not suprised you dont see how.
The last part of your quote is misleading at best. At 12 vdc very little power would actually flow through a human body, which is a high resistance. Motherboards are "grounded" through the high frequency transformer. What it takes to kill you is measured in milliwatts. You cannot be killed by the 12 volt output of a computer power supply because the voltage is too low.The worst you'll feel is a slight tingle. |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 74444
10/25/2007 12:56 AM | | Re: APOLLO MOON LANDINGS ------- FAKED OR REAL !!?? | Quote |
You say you can prove it in a court of law.
No, it is you who say that you can prove NASA's truth and virtue in a court of law. I strongly suspect that they cannot. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 314242
You lie again. You, after all, brought UP the court thing in the first place.
You have claimed in the past, on *several* occasions, that you can "prove in a court of law that Apollo was fraud." Well, your bang up job of it here at GLP wouldn't convince 12 people -- particularly as it doesn't look like it HAS convinced 12 people.
So, go do it. C'mon, do it! Get thee to a courtroom! File papers! Prove you have balls!
You won't, because when the chips are down, you're a coward. You are all full of bluster on a message board, but won't take your ideas to any venue where they might be proven wrong. And you just can't risk that, for you entire ego rests on the infallibility of your fallacious ideas. |
| IDW
User ID: 316817
10/25/2007 12:56 AM | | Re: APOLLO MOON LANDINGS ------- FAKED OR REAL !!?? | Quote |
I will be happy to hear their sworn testimony in court, under cross-examination.
You know what then, IDW?
Do it.
Go for it.
Sue NASA. You think you have a case, so do it already.
Draw up documents -- I'm sure you don't need a lawyer with the hyper-intelligence of yours -- and charge NASA. Sue them. Put their money where your mouth is.
What's stopping you? Quoting: Anonymous Coward 74444
Lol, that wasnt me, asshole.Thats someone else that wants to sue NASA! LMAO! I'd like to see the people paid back, and public disclosure of the fraud. But of course that would be too, well , just too fair, wouldnt it?
What a fucking dumbass. After all the time youve interacted with me you still mistake me for someone else? My style is less subtle. |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 74444
10/25/2007 12:59 AM | | Re: APOLLO MOON LANDINGS ------- FAKED OR REAL !!?? | Quote |
Lol, that wasnt me, asshole.Thats someone else that wants to sue NASA! LMAO! I'd like to see the people paid back, and public disclosure of the fraud. But of course that would be too, well , just too fair, wouldnt it?
What a fucking dumbass. After all the time youve interacted with me you still mistake me for someone else? My style is less subtle. Quoting: IDW 316817
My apologies for confusing you with someone else.
My points stand. You say you have enough evidence to prove in court that Apollo is a fraud. Well, as I said above, go do it! Sue! |
| IDW
User ID: 316817
10/25/2007 1:00 AM | | Re: APOLLO MOON LANDINGS ------- FAKED OR REAL !!?? | Quote |
You say you can prove it in a court of law.
No, it is you who say that you can prove NASA's truth and virtue in a court of law. I strongly suspect that they cannot.
You lie again. You, after all, brought UP the court thing in the first place.
You have claimed in the past, on *several* occasions, that you can "prove in a court of law that Apollo was fraud." Well, your bang up job of it here at GLP wouldn't convince 12 people -- particularly as it doesn't look like it HAS convinced 12 people.
So, go do it. C'mon, do it! Get thee to a courtroom! File papers! Prove you have balls!
You won't, because when the chips are down, you're a coward. You are all full of bluster on a message board, but won't take your ideas to any venue where they might be proven wrong. And you just can't risk that, for you entire ego rests on the infallibility of your fallacious ideas. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 74444
I didnt make the posts that you think I did, lamebrain. Ask the forum adminsitrator.Look at my user id. See how it predates the other poster? see how its the same one, now? |
| IDW
User ID: 316817
10/25/2007 1:08 AM | | Re: APOLLO MOON LANDINGS ------- FAKED OR REAL !!?? | Quote |
Lol, that wasnt me, asshole.Thats someone else that wants to sue NASA! LMAO! I'd like to see the people paid back, and public disclosure of the fraud. But of course that would be too, well , just too fair, wouldnt it?
What a fucking dumbass. After all the time youve interacted with me you still mistake me for someone else? My style is less subtle.
My apologies for confusing you with someone else.
My points stand. You say you have enough evidence to prove in court that Apollo is a fraud. Well, as I said above, go do it! Sue! Quoting: Anonymous Coward 74444
74444, let me ask you this question, all of the politics and the bullshit aside, and then I will let you explain why you think my feelings are misplaced and misdirected.
DO you think I am wrong to feel as I do, given what we have learned?
If nothing else we have both learned that NASA is not honest, nor forthcoming. It is obviously not thier intent to tell the truth. Do you deny that? |
| IDW
User ID: 316817
10/25/2007 1:20 AM | | Re: APOLLO MOON LANDINGS ------- FAKED OR REAL !!?? | Quote |
Now let me ask you another thing, did you follow the Apollo missions as child, believing they were a great accomplishment to have pride in? Did you actively promote the missions then, as I did, defending them against the many naysayers of the time?
How would you feel if you found out you were wrong, and those people who told you it was impossible were right?
How do you think I feel? How do you think it feels to have your family threatened, and your fathers accomplishments and memory tarnished by people who arent fit to be breathing the same air as the rest of us?
Now who got this money fraudulently? WHo profitted? Is NASA the actual benificiary of the fraud? If not who was? Thats what I am up against. And they CAN be sued. |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 74444
10/25/2007 1:34 AM | | Re: APOLLO MOON LANDINGS ------- FAKED OR REAL !!?? | Quote |
74444, let me ask you this question, all of the politics and the bullshit aside, and then I will let you explain why you think my feelings are misplaced and misdirected. Quoting: IDW 316817
I think I won't.
I think you owe me about thirty seven answers right now. I'll take a mere three subjects before I enter your little trap, and converse about the subject YOU want to converse on. You always seem to *change* the subject at just such times.
I'd like to see just these three points addressed though, and then I'll be happy to tackle your questions, bearding the lion, as it were.
1) What's stopping you from mounting your anti-Moon-Landing lawsuit? You've claimed you've had the goods on NASA for years, and are 100 percent certain you can *PROVE in a court of law* that the Moon Landing was hoaxed -- going so far as to erect truly titanic evidentiary requirements (photos of FOOTPRINTS on the Moon, fer cryin' out loud). Why haven't you filed your case?
2) You have claimed you are not a public figure, but you have also claimed you have an anti-Moon-Landing Book coming out any moment now. Which is true? If you DO have the book, which publishing house is producing it and when? Do you HAVE an ISBN number? According to you, I know everything about you anyway, so it can't hurt to confirm what you've claimed. (Then again, if I DID know everything about you and your book already, what nefarious reason would I have for asking?)
3) You claimed on numerous occasions, that the board was "selectively visible," only allowing certain people to see certain threads. Since you were taught how to effectively use the search engine, and have now managed to find threads every time, will you admit that you were wrong about that "100 percent confirmed fact" you were so sure of and repeated so very often?
There you go. Answer mine, and I'll answer yours. Only fair.
I'll take silence, or avoidance of direct answers, as tacit agreement that I have won the debate on these three points. I, after all, have learned from the best. |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 316817
10/25/2007 1:44 AM | | Re: APOLLO MOON LANDINGS ------- FAKED OR REAL !!?? | Quote |
ALot of you are probably saying, oh shit, he has figured out that it was the contractors who defrauded the public. I do not believe that at all, not totally anyway. Some of them would have had to be aware there were problems that had never been adequately addressed, meaning at some level there was fraud occuring that was known to them at the highest levels of thier organizations and they went along with it.
But who is still profitting from it to this day? Who is raking in the interest on the money loaned to the government to fund NASA? Congress "appropriated" it, but who created the capitol? How?
What if we could prove that these people were behind NASA and its fraud, and were using it as way to bilk the people of this country and destroy our national soveriegnty? WHat if a pattern can be shown, one where our country was dragged into unsurmountable debt intentionally to bring it down? Would you stand with me against this common enemy ,and help me drive it from our shores forever? Would you rather live in peace and contentment or fear and loathing? |
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