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OK how can there be a secret society if everyone knows about them

 
D.SMith
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10/03/2007 09:49 AM
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OK how can there be a secret society if everyone knows about them
Instead of post talking about the secret societies trying to rule the world.

Shouldn't everyone be writing about how the 'everybody knows about you society is trying to rule the world?' tomato
Anonymous Coward
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10/03/2007 09:53 AM
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Re: OK how can there be a secret society if everyone knows about them
Because no one can prove or disprove their existance. Like UFO's, everyone might believe in them, but without undisputable evidence...we can't prove it.
Elusis

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10/03/2007 10:03 AM
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Re: OK how can there be a secret society if everyone knows about them
its not necessarily about just knowing about the society, its about finding out their rules/ideas/influences/intentions, as well as who is in them that matters more. Once we have proof of those things we can act on them. But one of the reasons that they keep so secret is to confuse as well as to impress upon those "chosen" ones that since it is secret, that the information/ideas given to them must be important enough to warrant secrecy. Its an ego thing, as well as another form of divide and conquer.
Swimming in a sea of fractals
D.SMith (OP)
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10/03/2007 10:08 AM
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Re: OK how can there be a secret society if everyone knows about them
its not necessarily about just knowing about the society, its about finding out their rules/ideas/influences/intentions, as well as who is in them that matters more. Once we have proof of those things we can act on them. But one of the reasons that they keep so secret is to confuse as well as to impress upon those "chosen" ones that since it is secret, that the information/ideas given to them must be important enough to warrant secrecy. Its an ego thing, as well as another form of divide and conquer.
 Quoting: Elusis


So if this is the criteria then all societies that have political agendas or who try and plan so that they might influence the world around them could be deemed secret societies.
Anonymous Coward
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10/03/2007 10:10 AM
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Re: OK how can there be a secret society if everyone knows about them
nn
Anonymous Coward
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10/03/2007 10:12 AM
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Re: OK how can there be a secret society if everyone knows about them
hidden in plain sight.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 307055
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10/03/2007 10:13 AM
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Re: OK how can there be a secret society if everyone knows about them
It is a diversion, there are no more secret societies anymore, they have evolved.
Anonymous Coward
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10/03/2007 10:17 AM
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Re: OK how can there be a secret society if everyone knows about them
the exoteric branch is for public consumption

the esoteric branch is secret
they find you

ever heard of the AEG?

didn't think so
D.SMith (OP)
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10/03/2007 10:18 AM
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Re: OK how can there be a secret society if everyone knows about them
It is a diversion, there are no more secret societies anymore, they have evolved.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 307055

Now this track holds interest

If we believe that these societies have evolved to the point that the knowledge of their existence is no longer a part of their file of secrets, does this legitimise them, or they now leaders instead of subversives?
Anonymous Coward
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10/03/2007 10:20 AM
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Re: OK how can there be a secret society if everyone knows about them
I'll give you another

G.E.O.M.
Elusis

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10/03/2007 10:23 AM
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Re: OK how can there be a secret society if everyone knows about them
its not necessarily about just knowing about the society, its about finding out their rules/ideas/influences/intentions, as well as who is in them that matters more. Once we have proof of those things we can act on them. But one of the reasons that they keep so secret is to confuse as well as to impress upon those "chosen" ones that since it is secret, that the information/ideas given to them must be important enough to warrant secrecy. Its an ego thing, as well as another form of divide and conquer.


So if this is the criteria then all societies that have political agendas or who try and plan so that they might influence the world around them could be deemed secret societies.
 Quoting: D.SMith 295113


In a manner of speaking i would agree. Another key part of secret societies is compartmentalization. Look at the Freemasons, there are many levels (degrees) one has to go through, and the information given to a higher level is forbidden to be given to a lower level, this is a form of control. "Stay in line and do what we say and you might be privy to greater knowledge". As far as outsiders, because the information within is not known to just anybody, outsiders have only speculation, rumors, and conjecture. This allows for ridicule because of incomplete information and an eventual demonizing of the whole subject..."throw out the baby with the bathwater"
This allows for freedom of movment from within the society, because if the subject has been "debunked" for long enough no one will want to be labled as a kook, thus keeping the society safe.
Swimming in a sea of fractals
D.SMith (OP)
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10/03/2007 10:23 AM
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Re: OK how can there be a secret society if everyone knows about them
the exoteric branch is for public consumption

the esoteric branch is secret
they find you

ever heard of the AEG?

didn't think so
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 2529

Cryptic, and true I do not know of which society you are speaking of nor do I recognize the acronym off hand.

Yet you bring it up and then keep it secret as to why, are you part of a secret society?
Anonymous Coward
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10/03/2007 10:30 AM
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Re: OK how can there be a secret society if everyone knows about them
Instead of post talking about the secret societies trying to rule the world.

Shouldn't everyone be writing about how the 'everybody knows about you society is trying to rule the world?' tomato
 Quoting: D.SMith 295113

The vast majority have no interest or clue about Secret Societies. Only those who care to know do.

I don't think anyone knows what is at the top of the secret society pyramid except whatever is at the very top, be it ET, demon, God or man.

I suspect Alien.
D.SMith (OP)
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10/03/2007 10:31 AM
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Re: OK how can there be a secret society if everyone knows about them
In a manner of speaking i would agree. Another key part of secret societies is compartmentalization. Look at the Freemasons, there are many levels (degrees) one has to go through, and the information given to a higher level is forbidden to be given to a lower level, this is a form of control. "Stay in line and do what we say and you might be privy to greater knowledge". As far as outsiders, because the information within is not known to just anybody, outsiders have only speculation, rumors, and conjecture. This allows for ridicule because of incomplete information and an eventual demonizing of the whole subject..."throw out the baby with the bathwater"
This allows for freedom of movment from within the society, because if the subject has been "debunked" for long enough no one will want to be labled as a kook, thus keeping the society safe.

I can see what you describe in just about any organization. For instance I bid contracts in construction. I do not just hand out how I bid to any one. I keep secrets as to who I am bidding with, How much I am bidding and the contacts and negotiating techniques I use in order to get my bid.
People who work below me or given information that helps them do their Job, but they are not told everything that I know because I don't want people to leak my strategy. Like wise I am sure the owners of the company keep certain strategies to themselves. Though I do not find it necessary to use myself some in this industry use disinformation to win bids. SO is every business a secret society.
Elusis

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10/03/2007 10:32 AM
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Re: OK how can there be a secret society if everyone knows about them
Often secret societys will have "open" and "hidden" phases
like the Rosecrutions. 108 yrs in public light and 108 yrs out. this is for 2 reasons. 1) in the open phase it allows them to recrute members of the population. 2) in the hidden phase, 108 years allows them long enough so as to allow for the "debunking" that they actually exist so as to keep them secret.
Swimming in a sea of fractals
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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10/03/2007 10:33 AM
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Re: OK how can there be a secret society if everyone knows about them
In a manner of speaking i would agree. Another key part of secret societies is compartmentalization. Look at the Freemasons, there are many levels (degrees) one has to go through, and the information given to a higher level is forbidden to be given to a lower level, this is a form of control. "Stay in line and do what we say and you might be privy to greater knowledge". As far as outsiders, because the information within is not known to just anybody, outsiders have only speculation, rumors, and conjecture. This allows for ridicule because of incomplete information and an eventual demonizing of the whole subject..."throw out the baby with the bathwater"
This allows for freedom of movment from within the society, because if the subject has been "debunked" for long enough no one will want to be labled as a kook, thus keeping the society safe.
 Quoting: Elusis

for clarity sake I double postI can see what you describe in just about any organization. For instance I bid contracts in construction. I do not just hand out how I bid to any one. I keep secrets as to who I am bidding with, How much I am bidding and the contacts and negotiating techniques I use in order to get my bid.
People who work below me or given information that helps them do their Job, but they are not told everything that I know because I don't want people to leak my strategy. Like wise I am sure the owners of the company keep certain strategies to themselves. Though I do not find it necessary to use myself some in this industry use disinformation to win bids. SO is every business a secret society.
Anonymous Coward
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10/03/2007 10:34 AM
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Re: OK how can there be a secret society if everyone knows about them
It is a diversion, there are no more secret societies anymore, they have evolved.

Now this track holds interest

If we believe that these societies have evolved to the point that the knowledge of their existence is no longer a part of their file of secrets, does this legitimise them, or they now leaders instead of subversives?
 Quoting: D.SMith 295113


The secret society 'big boys', the guys at the top of the tree have become so secure in there position that they need not worry about the general public knowing 'of' them.

I also think it is a double show, there is the public awarenss of people like George Bush as a President and leader of a political party, but on the flip side he gets dressed up in his robes or whatever and worships a god that very little is known about. So you do see the people involved in the secret societies but you only ever see what they show you. Infact it probably take more effort to 'show' something to the people than to hide secrets from them.

The genral public however generally have no idea about there gathering and the subject matter of the gatherings.

Also remember that they have a secret religion aswell, this is where the power structure comes from, very little can be proven about there religious beliefs and where they originated.

They seem to be involved in the shaping of the future of the earth, implimenting policies and social attitudes and trends.



So long as they stay away from me, I don't have very much interest in what they do.
Anonymous Coward
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10/03/2007 10:35 AM
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Re: OK how can there be a secret society if everyone knows about them
Secret societies themselves are putting videos on google, I watched one from the Theosophy Society all about secret societies and how they just initiate people like a fraternity, but people need to understand that that initiation is in itself a renouncement of christianity, so it is the first step into the organization.
D.SMith (OP)
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10/03/2007 10:36 AM
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Re: OK how can there be a secret society if everyone knows about them
Often secret societys will have "open" and "hidden" phases
like the Rosecrutions. 108 yrs in public light and 108 yrs out. this is for 2 reasons. 1) in the open phase it allows them to recrute members of the population. 2) in the hidden phase, 108 years allows them long enough so as to allow for the "debunking" that they actually exist so as to keep them secret.
 Quoting: Elusis

I see the need at first to be secret if one is in danger during unenlightened times to be secret. I see the advantage in the open phase to recruit once a feeling of safety is achieved. I am not sure I am understanding the need to go secret again.
Elusis

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10/03/2007 10:37 AM
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Re: OK how can there be a secret society if everyone knows about them
In a manner of speaking i would agree. Another key part of secret societies is compartmentalization. Look at the Freemasons, there are many levels (degrees) one has to go through, and the information given to a higher level is forbidden to be given to a lower level, this is a form of control. "Stay in line and do what we say and you might be privy to greater knowledge". As far as outsiders, because the information within is not known to just anybody, outsiders have only speculation, rumors, and conjecture. This allows for ridicule because of incomplete information and an eventual demonizing of the whole subject..."throw out the baby with the bathwater"
This allows for freedom of movment from within the society, because if the subject has been "debunked" for long enough no one will want to be labled as a kook, thus keeping the society safe.

I can see what you describe in just about any organization. For instance I bid contracts in construction. I do not just hand out how I bid to any one. I keep secrets as to who I am bidding with, How much I am bidding and the contacts and negotiating techniques I use in order to get my bid.
People who work below me or given information that helps them do their Job, but they are not told everything that I know because I don't want people to leak my strategy. Like wise I am sure the owners of the company keep certain strategies to themselves. Though I do not find it necessary to use myself some in this industry use disinformation to win bids. SO is every business a secret society.
 Quoting: D.SMith 295113


Well, i would say that the basis for our modern idea of compartmentalization comes from secret societies, yes. I think if half of the corperations out their had to come out with all their stratigies, i dont think alot of ppl would be happy. corperations have distroyed the environment, stole money and land, sacrifised consumer health and the list goes on, so in a way i would say yes, alot of buisnesses could loosly be called secret societies.
Just look at what ENRON did.
Swimming in a sea of fractals
D.SMith (OP)
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10/03/2007 10:42 AM
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Re: OK how can there be a secret society if everyone knows about them
Secret societies themselves are putting videos on google, I watched one from the Theosophy Society all about secret societies and how they just initiate people like a fraternity, but people need to understand that that initiation is in itself a renouncement of christianity, so it is the first step into the organization.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 307088

This argument would hold more merit if all Christians belonged to the same church. Unfortunately all to many churches accuse all others but theirs of being a cult of evil. So I am not sure that such a warning has strength when it is so often used even against fellow Christians. Since many of these society purport to be of christian faith it brings little help to your accusation, though I am sure you could argue quite efficiently how your Christian beliefs are more accurate and less sinister then theirs.
Elusis

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10/03/2007 10:49 AM
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Re: OK how can there be a secret society if everyone knows about them
I see the need at first to be secret if one is in danger during unenlightened times to be secret. I see the advantage in the open phase to recruit once a feeling of safety is achieved. I am not sure I am understanding the need to go secret again.
 Quoting: D.SMith 295113


In these times of the hidden phase only family members of members may be brought in. This phase is to allow everybody to forget about the society. For example...some kings were against the wishes of these societies and if the society was in the open the king would be less inclinded to be allowed to be swayed by opinion fearing underlying motives. where as if the king feels that there is no risk of being decived it is easier for the society to infiltrate and mold their withes without great risk to themselves or their order.
Swimming in a sea of fractals
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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10/03/2007 10:50 AM
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Re: OK how can there be a secret society if everyone knows about them
Well, i would say that the basis for our modern idea of compartmentalization comes from secret societies, yes. I think if half of the corperations out their had to come out with all their stratigies, i dont think alot of ppl would be happy. corperations have distroyed the environment, stole money and land, sacrifised consumer health and the list goes on, so in a way i would say yes, alot of buisnesses could loosly be called secret societies.
Just look at what ENRON did.
 Quoting: Elusis

Now is their secrecy evil, is the entent evil. Persoanly I have never entended evil with my secrets. I have entended to get the contract but I have never tried to decieve.

If I think 'most' people are like me and feel that they were caught up in the moment and just trying to do a good job. Were their actions evil.

I say this because many believe that secret societies or inherently evil with evil intent. Yet as you pointed out much of what people do (many who if asked would tell you do not belong to a secret society)mirrors secret societies

In further thought I ask you did these original organizations start in a similar fashion?
D.SMith (OP)
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10/03/2007 10:53 AM
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Re: OK how can there be a secret society if everyone knows about them
I see the need at first to be secret if one is in danger during unenlightened times to be secret. I see the advantage in the open phase to recruit once a feeling of safety is achieved. I am not sure I am understanding the need to go secret again.


In these times of the hidden phase only family members of members may be brought in. This phase is to allow everybody to forget about the society. For example...some kings were against the wishes of these societies and if the society was in the open the king would be less inclinded to be allowed to be swayed by opinion fearing underlying motives. where as if the king feels that there is no risk of being decived it is easier for the society to infiltrate and mold their withes without great risk to themselves or their order.
 Quoting: Elusis

Yes I can see the logic in this now
D.SMith (OP)
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10/03/2007 10:56 AM
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Re: OK how can there be a secret society if everyone knows about them
I'll give you another

G.E.O.M.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 2529

ANd the same answer I gave before still applies
Elusis

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10/03/2007 10:57 AM
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Re: OK how can there be a secret society if everyone knows about them
In further thought I ask you did these original organizations start in a similar fashion?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 295113


Well actually the Knights Templar and the Knights Hospitaller were good organizations. they started from charity work, both were set up to be hospitals for wounded soldiers and aid to the townsfolk, but were infiltrated by a highter order. I think this is basically the same thing as being secret because they had a moral front.
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Anonymous Coward
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10/03/2007 10:58 AM
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Re: OK how can there be a secret society if everyone knows about them
OP-

Great Point!

Like most of the supposed "secrets" discussed on this forum, they aren't very....
D.SMith (OP)
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10/03/2007 11:08 AM
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Re: OK how can there be a secret society if everyone knows about them
Well actually the Knights Templar and the Knights Hospitaller were good organizations. they started from charity work, both were set up to be hospitals for wounded soldiers and aid to the townsfolk, but were infiltrated by a highter order. I think this is basically the same thing as being secret because they had a moral front.
 Quoting: Elusis

The word 'moral' is where we get at the crucst of our association with what we have come to call secret societies.

Personaly I do not doubt these societies exist and at one time were secret. I am not so sure that I believe them to be as sinister and as all powerful as many here beleive.

The Moral leadership of most societies find themselves held to account. We see it all to often in our political leadership as well as our religious leadership. I think we are frightened that in secret societies these leaders may unwittingly follow poor directions and not be held to account soon enough due to the secrecy that surrounds them, A legitimate fear. However , I am not convinced that these societies were designed to do evil nor am I convinced that any were able to remain secret for any great period of time.
fnfal
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10/03/2007 11:13 AM
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Re: OK how can there be a secret society if everyone knows about them
Just like rat bait that is 99.995% inert, it's that remaining .005% poison that kills you.

Same with the truth. The Bible says "narrow is the way". If some of the "secret" information can get out, then it appears to the layperson that progress is being accomplished to uncover their ignorance. However, it's what "they" don't share that'll get ya. So most will still be damned anyway.

Time is late and "they know it". "They" have been give the right to operate by the God of the Bible himself to generate His plan of events.

Not everything is uncovered. For example, even here on GLP try to post the names of some secret groups. You will get bannned.


Cheers
:-)
Elusis

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10/03/2007 11:23 AM
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Re: OK how can there be a secret society if everyone knows about them
OP...I suggest you read this very enlightning book on the history of who rules us. it gives a very through look at the motives and extent of the power these ppl weild.

The book is called "The Gods of Eden" by William Bramley

[link to www.bibliotecapleyades.net]
Swimming in a sea of fractals
D.SMith (OP)
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10/03/2007 11:27 AM
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Re: OK how can there be a secret society if everyone knows about them
OP...I suggest you read this very enlightning book on the history of who rules us. it gives a very through look at the motives and extent of the power these ppl weild.

The book is called "The Gods of Eden" by William Bramley

[link to www.bibliotecapleyades.net]
 Quoting: Elusis

I actually have recently been given a copy of the book, I have read excerpts but must confess I have not sat with it for a good reading. I have read other books on the subject though it has been some years.

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