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LIBERAL AND CONSERVATIVE GROUPS FROM NORTH AND SOUTH JOIN TO SECEDE FROM UNION

 
Monadnock
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10/03/2007 10:11 AM
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LIBERAL AND CONSERVATIVE GROUPS FROM NORTH AND SOUTH JOIN TO SECEDE FROM UNION
CHATTANOOGA, Tenn. - In an unlikely marriage of desire to secede from the United States, two advocacy groups from opposite political traditions — New England and the South — are sitting down to talk.



Tired of foreign wars and what they consider right-wing courts, the Middlebury Institute wants liberal states like Vermont to be able to secede peacefully.

That sounds just fine to the League of the South, a conservative group that refuses to give up on Southern independence.

"We believe that an independent South, or Hawaii, Alaska, or Vermont would be better able to serve the interest of everybody, regardless of race or ethnicity," said Michael Hill of Killen, Ala., president of the League of the South.

Separated by hundreds of miles and divergent political philosophies, the Middlebury Institute and the League of the South are hosting a two-day Secessionist Convention starting Wednesday in Chattanooga.

They expect to attract supporters from California, Alaska and Hawaii, inviting anyone who wants to dissolve the Union so states can save themselves from an overbearing federal government.

If allowed to go their own way, New Englanders "probably would allow abortion and have gun control," Hill said, while Southerners "would probably crack down on illegal immigration harder than it is being now."

The U.S. Constitution does not explicitly prohibit secession, but few people think it is politically viable.

Vermont, one of the nation's most liberal states, has become a hotbed for liberal secessionists, a fringe movement that gained new traction because of the Iraq war, rising oil prices and the formation of several pro-secession groups.

Thomas Naylor, the founder of one of those groups, the Second Vermont Republic, said the friendly relationship with the League of the South doesn't mean everyone shares all the same beliefs.

But Naylor, a retired Duke University professor, said the League of the South shares his group's opposition to the federal government and the need to pursue secession.

"It doesn't matter if our next president is Condoleeza (Rice) or Hillary (Clinton), it is going to be grim," said Naylor, adding that there are secessionist movements in more than 25 states, including Hawaii, Alaska, New Hampshire, South Carolina and Texas.

The Middlebury Institute, based in Cold Spring, N.Y., was started in 2005. Its followers, disillusioned by the Iraq war and federal imperialism, share the idea of states becoming independent republics. They contend their movement is growing.

The first North American Separatist Convention was held last fall in Vermont, which, unlike most Southern states, supports civil unions. Voters there elected a socialist to the U.S. Senate.

Middlebury director Kirpatrick Sale said Hill offered to sponsor the second secessionist convention, but the co-sponsor arrangement was intended to show that "the folks up north regard you as legitimate colleagues."

"It bothers me that people have wrongly declared them to be racists," Sale said.

The League of the South says it is not racist, but proudly displays a Confederate Battle Flag on its banner.

Mark Potok, director of the Southern Poverty Law Center's Intelligence Project, which monitors hate groups, said the League of the South "has been on our list close to a decade."

"What is remarkable and really astounding about this situation is we see people and institutions who are supposedly on the progressive left rubbing shoulders with bona fide white supremacists," Potok said.

Sale said the League of the South "has not done or said anything racist in its 14 years of existence," and that the Southern Poverty Law Center is not credible.

"They call everybody racists," Sale said. "There are, no doubt, racists in the League of the South, and there are, no doubt, racists everywhere."

Harry Watson, director of the Center For the Study of the American South and a history professor at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, said it was a surprise to see The Middlebury Institute conferring with the League of the South, "an organization that's associated with a cause that many of us associate with the preservation of slavery."

He said the unlikely partnering "represents the far left and far right of American politics coming together."

___
Captain Marjorie, US Army
Anonymous Coward
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10/03/2007 10:29 AM
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Re: LIBERAL AND CONSERVATIVE GROUPS FROM NORTH AND SOUTH JOIN TO SECEDE FROM UNION
It is the thing to do. We are suppose to be the "united STATES" anyway. It would fix many problems, if only it were still possible.
Anonymous Coward
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10/03/2007 10:38 AM
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Re: LIBERAL AND CONSERVATIVE GROUPS FROM NORTH AND SOUTH JOIN TO SECEDE FROM UNION
It is the thing to do. We are suppose to be the "united STATES" anyway. It would fix many problems, if only it were still possible.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 307088

If enough people support it, it is entirely possible.
Anonymous Coward
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10/03/2007 10:49 AM
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Re: LIBERAL AND CONSERVATIVE GROUPS FROM NORTH AND SOUTH JOIN TO SECEDE FROM UNION
If Vermont secedes, I'm moving there.
Anonymous Coward
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10/03/2007 10:52 AM
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Re: LIBERAL AND CONSERVATIVE GROUPS FROM NORTH AND SOUTH JOIN TO SECEDE FROM UNION
John Titor is right again.
Anonymous Coward
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10/03/2007 10:55 AM
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Re: LIBERAL AND CONSERVATIVE GROUPS FROM NORTH AND SOUTH JOIN TO SECEDE FROM UNION
lmao

Fuck 'em, let them eat cake......
Anonymous Coward
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10/03/2007 10:58 AM
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Re: LIBERAL AND CONSERVATIVE GROUPS FROM NORTH AND SOUTH JOIN TO SECEDE FROM UNION
If Vermont secedes, I'm moving there.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 293171

It's the only viable solution left to the people....nothing else will work...The reason the founding Fathers left the states separate from each other, and had no provision against succession from the Union is now clear...I have a good friend in VT. who is involved with the movement..The Fed's will put up a huge fight to keep this from happening because it is their political death....Even a rat has the good sense to vacate a sinking ship......
Anonymous Coward
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10/03/2007 10:59 AM
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Re: LIBERAL AND CONSERVATIVE GROUPS FROM NORTH AND SOUTH JOIN TO SECEDE FROM UNION
If Vermont secedes, I'm moving there.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 293171


Better get a passport.... agent
Anonymous Coward
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10/03/2007 11:00 AM
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Re: LIBERAL AND CONSERVATIVE GROUPS FROM NORTH AND SOUTH JOIN TO SECEDE FROM UNION
people realizing the answer is the almost complete elimation of the federal govt. we just dont need them for much, they are like foriegn invaders, they come in our states and do as they please, steal land, lock up who they please, burn down what they please, and tax what they please but if you are in trouble they wont come to the peoples aid. states need to form their own militaries. i would defend my state but we all know the only invader would be uncle sam.
Anonymous Coward
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10/03/2007 11:01 AM
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Re: LIBERAL AND CONSERVATIVE GROUPS FROM NORTH AND SOUTH JOIN TO SECEDE FROM UNION
There is a movement to have Alberta leave Canada, Quebec to leave Canada. There is the Western Seperation Party that is trying to create an new Country out of Western Canada.
People everywhere are sick & tired of the Servants who think they are master. Federal Gov'ts everywhere are out of control.
LS

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10/03/2007 11:06 AM
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Re: LIBERAL AND CONSERVATIVE GROUPS FROM NORTH AND SOUTH JOIN TO SECEDE FROM UNION
will never happen.
Anonymous Coward
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10/03/2007 11:07 AM
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Re: LIBERAL AND CONSERVATIVE GROUPS FROM NORTH AND SOUTH JOIN TO SECEDE FROM UNION
will never happen.
 Quoting: LS


i agree, the govt would kill everyone in vermont before they let it happen.
Anonymous Coward
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10/03/2007 11:26 AM
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Re: LIBERAL AND CONSERVATIVE GROUPS FROM NORTH AND SOUTH JOIN TO SECEDE FROM UNION
Succession would require a majority vote from the governed. That will never happen. The majority of the governed are to lazy and ignorant for any such vote to have even a remote chance.

It's time to face facts. The occupier will be the occupied. America will soon be the domain of whatever nation or group of nations take her over.
Anonymous Coward
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10/03/2007 11:32 AM
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Re: LIBERAL AND CONSERVATIVE GROUPS FROM NORTH AND SOUTH JOIN TO SECEDE FROM UNION
Succession would require a majority vote from the governed. That will never happen. The majority of the governed are to lazy and ignorant for any such vote to have even a remote chance.

It's time to face facts. The occupier will be the occupied. America will soon be the domain of whatever nation or group of nations take her over.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 188102



you must not live vermont (look at their gun laws), or the south ('nuff said)

where do you live?


america has been occupied for awhile now. does our government bear any resemblence to 1776?
Anonymous Coward
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10/03/2007 11:33 AM
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Re: LIBERAL AND CONSERVATIVE GROUPS FROM NORTH AND SOUTH JOIN TO SECEDE FROM UNION
Succession would require a majority vote from the governed. That will never happen. The majority of the governed are to lazy and ignorant for any such vote to have even a remote chance.

It's time to face facts. The occupier will be the occupied. America will soon be the domain of whatever nation or group of nations take her over.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 188102



you must not live in vermont,(look at their gun laws), or the south ('nuff said) :) and let's not leave out the mid-west farmers or the western wild&free~

where do you live?


america has been occupied for awhile now. does our government bear any resemblence to 1776?
ERIC
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10/03/2007 11:41 AM
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Re: LIBERAL AND CONSERVATIVE GROUPS FROM NORTH AND SOUTH JOIN TO SECEDE FROM UNION
He said the unlikely partnering "represents the far left and far right of American politics coming together."

___
 Quoting: Monadnock


It's kind of funny that an Arab proverb applies here... The enemy, of my enemy, is my friend!
Anonymous Coward
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10/03/2007 11:42 AM
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Re: LIBERAL AND CONSERVATIVE GROUPS FROM NORTH AND SOUTH JOIN TO SECEDE FROM UNION
Sounds like what they would like is that is laid out by the constitution, but which has been skirted by a totally corrupt federal "government" using CAFR money to drug the states.

See cafr1.com

Any positive movement is better than the government officials, judges, military and police that we have who swear to protect and defend the constitution, but don't.
Anonymous Coward
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10/03/2007 12:00 PM
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Re: LIBERAL AND CONSERVATIVE GROUPS FROM NORTH AND SOUTH JOIN TO SECEDE FROM UNION
will never happen.


i agree, the govt would kill everyone in vermont before they let it happen.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 268919

But yet the so-called "Evil Empire" of the Soviet Union broke up with no bloodshed at all. Makes you wonder who is really the evil empire?


.
Anonymous Coward
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10/03/2007 12:03 PM
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It sounds like a good and necessary idea...and it is agreed that the Federal Government has become too oppressive but I have a concern that some method must be agreed to to provide for protection from foreign invaders. and provide for a STATE controlled maintenance of the infrastructure. It would be better if we...as a UNION could really have some way of controlling those who are controlling us.
Anonymous Coward
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10/03/2007 12:06 PM
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Re: LIBERAL AND CONSERVATIVE GROUPS FROM NORTH AND SOUTH JOIN TO SECEDE FROM UNION
will never happen.


i agree, the govt would kill everyone in vermont before they let it happen.

But yet the so-called "Evil Empire" of the Soviet Union broke up with no bloodshed at all. Makes you wonder who is really the evil empire?


.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 303980
Yeah...they broke up but they still seek to bury us and their press is controlled etc. etc.
FHL(C)

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10/03/2007 12:12 PM
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Re: LIBERAL AND CONSERVATIVE GROUPS FROM NORTH AND SOUTH JOIN TO SECEDE FROM UNION
You want freedom or its alternative?
then be bold and tell everyone, but those who resist or hate less forcefully, and then encourage the those who will, especially for truth in Him but in wisdom from above, its difficult, to have blood on your hands, especially before God, then repent and stop.
FHL(C)

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10/03/2007 12:15 PM
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Re: LIBERAL AND CONSERVATIVE GROUPS FROM NORTH AND SOUTH JOIN TO SECEDE FROM UNION
Then obey Him, only in accord with the Word as congealed in the 66 books of western canon(eastern is ok as subject to the 66(not 666)
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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10/03/2007 12:24 PM
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Re: LIBERAL AND CONSERVATIVE GROUPS FROM NORTH AND SOUTH JOIN TO SECEDE FROM UNION
Looks like quite a few people what out of the United States of Hate!
FREEWAVES.TV
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10/03/2007 12:24 PM
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Re: LIBERAL AND CONSERVATIVE GROUPS FROM NORTH AND SOUTH JOIN TO SECEDE FROM UNION
What Union!? [link to en.wikipedia.org]

FREEWAVES.TV
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10/03/2007 12:36 PM
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Re: LIBERAL AND CONSERVATIVE GROUPS FROM NORTH AND SOUTH JOIN TO SECEDE FROM UNION
Drudge has linked this now. That's good exposure.
Anonymous Coward
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10/03/2007 12:37 PM
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Re: LIBERAL AND CONSERVATIVE GROUPS FROM NORTH AND SOUTH JOIN TO SECEDE FROM UNION
Whoever succeeds first (pun intended), I'm there in a heartbeat.
Anonymous Coward
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10/03/2007 01:02 PM
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Re: LIBERAL AND CONSERVATIVE GROUPS FROM NORTH AND SOUTH JOIN TO SECEDE FROM UNION
Move to New Hampshire! At the beginning of EVERY legislative session, we have to vote whether or not to remain part of the United States. Our Constitution predates the US Constitution thus takes precedence.

Here are a few clips from our Bill of Rights.

[Art.] 7. [State Sovereignty.] The people of this state have the sole and exclusive right of governing themselves as a free, sovereign, and independent state; and do, and forever hereafter shall, exercise and enjoy every power, jurisdiction, and right, pertaining thereto, which is not, or may not hereafter be, by them expressly delegated to the United States of America in congress assembled.
June 2, 1784

[Art.] 10. [Right of Revolution.] Government being instituted for the common benefit, protection, and security, of the whole community, and not for the private interest or emolument of any one man, family, or class of men; therefore, whenever the ends of government are perverted, and public liberty manifestly endangered, and all other means of redress are ineffectual, the people may, and of right ought to reform the old, or establish a new government. The doctrine of nonresistance against arbitrary power, and oppression, is absurd, slavish, and destructive of the good and happiness of mankind.
June 2, 1784

......
New Hampshire is the only state which provides for a "Right of Revolution" in its state constitution. The Right of Revolution is a right dating back to the Revolutionary War, and is held in high regard in New Hampshire by members of the libertarian Free State Project.

[Art.] 24. [Militia.] A well regulated militia is the proper, natural, and sure defense, of a state.
June 2, 1784

[Art.] 34. [Martial Law Limited.] No person can, in any case, be subjected to law martial, or to any pains or penalties by virtue of that law, except those employed in the army or navy, and except the militia in actual service, but by authority of the legislature.
June 2, 1784
Anonymous Coward
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10/03/2007 01:09 PM
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Re: LIBERAL AND CONSERVATIVE GROUPS FROM NORTH AND SOUTH JOIN TO SECEDE FROM UNION
with Alaska harbouring the largest supply of oil known to man , they will not let that state secede, not a chance in hell. and they will charge those who do secede thru the roof for that oil and natural gases. good luck with that.
Anonymous Coward
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10/03/2007 01:12 PM
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Re: LIBERAL AND CONSERVATIVE GROUPS FROM NORTH AND SOUTH JOIN TO SECEDE FROM UNION
The dude who runs the Vermont group taught me macro-economics at Duke.

what a trip.
Anonymous Coward
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10/03/2007 01:21 PM
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Re: LIBERAL AND CONSERVATIVE GROUPS FROM NORTH AND SOUTH JOIN TO SECEDE FROM UNION
found this site below, guess it's pretty common but not taken very seriously?

American Secession Project
Dedicated to placing secession in the mainstream of political thought as a viable solution to contemporary problems.



"The denial of the right to secede from a voluntary union is itself a primary justification for secession"



Resources

American Secession Project Home
Secession Primer
Secession Theories
Application
Index of Secessionist Papers
Justifications for Secession
Legality of Secession
Secession Myths
Documents and Links
SP Blog
Search and News
Recommended Books
Contact
Get Involved

States' Rights Bloggers' Alliance

Sign the Declaration of States' Rights



External

Middlebury Declaration
Secession.net
Philosophy and Secession
Free State Project
Middlebury Institute
Abbeville Institute
Southern Loyalist
States' Rights Review
Free States Blog
Shouting From the Mountaintop
Hawai'ian Independence Blog
Vermont Commons
New England Secession Blog
Conch Republic -humorous but they actually seceded
Scarlet Pimpernel

ASP In-depth State and Region pages

Alaska
Arizona
California
Cascadia
Hawai'i
New England
New Hampshire
North Carolina
South Carolina
Texas
Vermont
Secession
That one word evokes many emotions and concepts. To many in the United States it equates to treason and rebellion. This sad fact is a result of ignorance. If a man has the right to vote but is always told that voting is pointless, or worse illegal, and he believes such to be the truth it cannot be said that he truly has such a right.

It has not always been so. The United States was born during a time that secession and self determination were not only observed as inalienable rights but were practiced. Virginia set the example in June of 1776 by declaring her independence from Great Britain. She along with the twelve other colonies jointly declared their independence the following month. These were acts of secession and our Independence Day might rightly be called Secession Day.

The charter of the American Secession Project is simple. We desire to place the concept of secession in the mainstream of political thought. Our intent is to proclaim that secession is a viable and legal right and a practical solution to contemporary problems. Secondly, we desire to build a coalition of groups seeking autonomy and independence within the current United States. Mutual support for the concept of self-determination and secession will eventually benefit all groups seeking freedom.

Secessionist come in all ethnic and cultural backgrounds colors and religious persuasions. Secession is neither liberal nor conservative, it is a right that might be equally applied regardless of a group's persuasion. The folks that support a free California and an Independent Alaska certainly disagree on numerous issues, specifically environmental issues. However the concept of supporting another in their bid to manage their own affairs is certainly a historic American (if not 20th century American) point of view.


more at: [link to www.secessionist.us]

Secession Quotes

"Any people anywhere, being inclined and having the power, have the right to rise up and shake off the existing government, and form a new one that suits them better. This is a most valuable, a most sacred right – a right which we hope and believe is to liberate the world. Nor is this right confined to cases in which the whole people of an existing government may choose to exercise it. Any portion of such people, that can, may revolutionize, and make their own of so much of the territory as they inhabit." – Abraham Lincoln, (speech in Congress January 1848)

"A nation, therefore, has no right to say to a province: You belong to me, I want to take you. A province consists of its inhabitants. If anybody has a right to be heard in this case it is these inhabitants." - Ludwig Von Mises. Omnipotent Government, p.90

"This and no other is the root from which a tyrant springs; when he first appears he is a protector." – Plato (circa 400 B.C.)

"When all government, in little as in great things, shall be drawn to Washington as the Center of all power, it will render powerless the checks provided of one government on another and will become as venal and oppressive as the government from which we separated." – Thomas Jefferson

"The constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government - lest it come to dominate our lives and interests."-Patrick Henry

"Only a despotic and imperial government can coerce seceding states" - William Seward US Secretary of State under Abraham Lincoln in 10 April 1861 to Charles Francis Adams, Minister to the Court of St. James (Britain)

"We do heartily accept this doctrine, believing it intrinsically sound, beneficent, and one that, universally accepted, is calculated to prevent the shedding of seas of human blood. And, if it justified the secession from the British Empire of Three Millions of colonists in 1776, we do not see why it would not justify the secession of Five Millions of Southrons from the Federal Union in 1861." - The New-York Daily Tribune, December 17, 1860

"The consolidation of the states into one vast republic, sure to be aggressive abroad and despotic at home, will be the certain precursor of that ruin of all that has proceeded it." - Robert E. Lee to Lord Acton December 15, 1866

"We dissent . . . because the powers vested in Congress by this constitution, must necessarily annihilate and absorb the legislative, executive, and judicial powers of he several states, and produce from their ruins one consolidated government, which from the nature of things will be an iron handed despotism, as nothing short of the supremacy of despotic sway could connect and govern these United States under one government. . . . t would . . . produce a despotism, and that not by the usual gradations, but with the celerity that has hitherto only attended revolutions effected by the sword." (The Address and Reasons of Dissent of the Minority of the Convention of Pennsylvania to their Constituents, December 18, 1787), in R. Ketchum, ed., The Anti-Federalist Papers, pp. 237-256).



George Orwell Quotes (rather applicable today)

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act."

"Every war when it comes, or before it comes, is represented not as a war but as an act of self-defense against a homicidal maniac."

"Who controls the past controls the future. Who controls the present controls the past."

"Winston could not definitely remember a time when his country had not been at war." (From 1984)
Anonymous Coward
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10/03/2007 01:43 PM
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Re: LIBERAL AND CONSERVATIVE GROUPS FROM NORTH AND SOUTH JOIN TO SECEDE FROM UNION
will never happen.


i agree, the govt would kill everyone in vermont before they let it happen.

But yet the so-called "Evil Empire" of the Soviet Union broke up with no bloodshed at all. Makes you wonder who is really the evil empire?


.
Yeah...they broke up but they still seek to bury us and their press is controlled etc. etc.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 123405


You're so right!!!

Our government lets us run free and would never control our media!!


You are a brainwashed fool!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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