| | | Page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44, 45, 46, 47, 48, 49, 50, 51, 52, 53, 54, 55, 56, 57, 58, 59, 60, 61, 62, 63, 64, 65, 66, 67, 68, 69, 70, 71, 72, 73, 74, 75, 76, 77, 78, 79, 80, 81, 82, 83, 84, 85, 86, 87, 88, 89, 90, 91, 92, 93, 94, 95, 96, 97, 98, 99, 100, 101, 102, 103, 104, 105, 106, 107, 108, 109, 110, 111, 112, 113, 114, 115, 116, 117, 118, 119, 120, 121, 122, 123, 124, 125, 126, 127, 128, 129, 130, 131, 132, 133, 134, 135, 136, 137, 138, 139, 140, 141, 142, 143, 144, 145, 146, 147, 148, 149, 150, 151, 152, 153, 154, 155, 156, 157, 158, 159, 160, 161, 162, 163, 164, 165, 166, 167, 168, 169, 170, 171, 172, 173, 174, 175, 176, 177, 178, 179, 180, 181, 182, 183, 184, 185, 186, 187, 188, 189, 190, 191, 192, 193, 194, 195, 196, 197, 198, 199, 200, 201, 202, 203, 204, 205, 206, 207, 208, 209, 210, 211, 212, 213, 214, 215, 216, 217, 218, 219, 220, 221, 222, 223, 224, 225, 226, 227, 228, 229, 230, 231, 232, 233, 234, 235, 236, 237, 238, 239, 240, 241, 242, 243, 244, 245, 246, 247, 248, 249, 250, 251, 252, 253, 254, 255, 256, 257, 258, 259, 260, 261, 262, 263, 264, 265, 266, 267, 268, 269, 270, 271, 272, 273, 274, 275, 276, 277, 278, 279, 280, 281, 282, 283, 284, 285, 286, 287, 288, 289, 290, 291, 292, 293, 294, 295, 296, 297, 298, 299, 300, 301, 302, 303, 304, 305, 306, 307, 308, 309, 310, 311, 312, 313 | 17P/Holmes - Enigma 'Comet'
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 318514
10/28/2007 9:50 AM | | Re: 17P/Holmes - Enigma 'Comet' | Quote |
Would that be the "Blue Kachina" of the Hopi indians? |
| SPIDER
User ID: 107433
10/28/2007 9:53 AM
 | | Re: 17P/Holmes - Enigma 'Comet' | Quote |
There just doesn't seem to be enough original matter to make a sphere as large as Jupiter and still be seen. This is truly bizarre. |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 318508
10/28/2007 9:56 AM | | Re: 17P/Holmes - Enigma 'Comet' | Quote |
Lets take a simpler approach, the comet is going round and round minding it's own orbit so to speak and along comes a small solid meteor going in the other direction, in our solar system we have plenty of both, so you have an impact at extremely high speeds, sufficient to fragment the core of the comet, hence the major explosion, since there is little or no friction in space the particles ejected keep expanding.
If my deduction is correct the size of the comet cloud will keep expanding but will also grow "thinner" or more diffused day by day, we should get more detailed pictures of the comet core day by day. Quoting: Prof-Rabbit 148352
It's a possibility that your theory is correct although it seems a very slim chance that it is because it seems to me that it would be like hitting a bullet with a bb.
Another question I have is - if a collision occurred with another object and caused a cloud of debris, why isn't the cloud being blown into a tail away from the sun by the solar wind? |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 275504
10/28/2007 9:58 AM | | Re: 17P/Holmes - Enigma 'Comet' | Quote |
great question a la the comet enki was it
tail blown to bits by solar wind after a blast |
| SPIDER
User ID: 107433
10/28/2007 9:58 AM
| | SPIDER
User ID: 107433
10/28/2007 10:00 AM
| | Re: 17P/Holmes - Enigma 'Comet' | Quote |
"Q: What is the current best estimate of the mass of Comet 9P/Tempel 1?
The simple answer:
We don't know the mass of comet Tempel 1 at this time. We don't even know its size very accurately yet. We can estimate its mass by assuming a density and multiplying the density by the volume to compute a mass. M=D x V.
Our best estimate is anywhere from 0.1 - 2.5 x 1014 kg. When you think that a kilogram is 2.2 pounds, you can see that Tempel 1 is pretty massive on the scale of something human. On a planetary scale, consider the Earth's mass, which is about 6.0 x 1024 kg or asteroid Ceres with a mass of 9.445 x 1020 kg. Compared to them, the mass of the comet is almost nothing, well not quite."
0.1 - 2.5 x 1014 kg
Can we use this same number for the mass of Holmes? |
| SPIDER
User ID: 107433
10/28/2007 10:01 AM
| | Re: 17P/Holmes - Enigma 'Comet' | Quote |
2.5 x 10 to the 14th power kg. |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 318530
10/28/2007 10:01 AM | | Re: 17P/Holmes - Enigma 'Comet' | Quote |
It is not a comet, it is like a signal flare, for aliens, they are going to do something...... |
| SPIDER
User ID: 107433
10/28/2007 10:04 AM
| | Re: 17P/Holmes - Enigma 'Comet' | Quote |
6E+24 /
2.5E+14
24,000,000,000
Earth's mass is 24 billion times the mass of Tempel 1. For a guide we might use the same number for Holmes. |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 318467
10/28/2007 10:05 AM | | Re: 17P/Holmes - Enigma 'Comet' | Quote |
Are we 100% sure this is comet Holmes and not a supernova fragment? |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 316011
10/28/2007 10:05 AM | | Re: 17P/Holmes - Enigma 'Comet' | Quote |
What would make a comet explode in this fashion? Actually, a better question is, what would make a comet explode twice in this fashion? This is the second time Comet 17P/Holmes has erupted. The first was in 1892, an outburst that led to the comet's discovery by British astronomer Edwin Holmes. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 318163
Scientists continue to perpetuate the old tired myth that comets are "dirty snowballs".
You are right, given that this is the second time this has happened in recent history, the odds that this is due to an impact (raising 'dust') of some sort is quite slim.
The Electric Universe is alive and well. When will scientists give up the ghost and their old incorrect theories?
PDF of "The Electric Comet" by Wallace Thornhill and David Talbott:
[link to www.thunderbolts.info] |
| SPIDER
User ID: 107433
10/28/2007 10:07 AM
| | Re: 17P/Holmes - Enigma 'Comet' | Quote |
To put that in perspective, there are 6 billion people on earth multiply that by 4 times.
Now take just one of those people and compare them to the size of the number of people on earth x 4.
This is an incredibly small mass. How can it be as large as Jupiter and still be 1.9 magnitude and easily visible to the naked eye? |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 318407
10/28/2007 10:09 AM | | Re: 17P/Holmes - Enigma 'Comet' | Quote |
Gee, you'd think that a million fold increase in brightening would be their first clue that electrical current is involved in the phenomenon. About the only other possible energy source that could do such a thing would be a nuclear weapon. Quoting: Michael Mozina 25th Oct 2007 |
| SPIDER
User ID: 107433
10/28/2007 10:11 AM
| | Re: 17P/Holmes - Enigma 'Comet' | Quote |
Something artificial or extraordinary is going on here. The scientists act like they know what's going on, but every week we find something that "baffles" them.
Do some major theories need to be rewritten instead of old ones being repaired 10,000 times. |
| Prof-Rabbit
User ID: 148352
10/28/2007 10:12 AM | | Re: 17P/Holmes - Enigma 'Comet' | Quote |
We do have an approximate size for 17/P as follows:
quote
We measure the mean apparent magnitude of 17P to be
mR = 22.86 ± 0.02. Using equation 1, this gives an effective
radius of rN = 1.62 ± 0.01 km for the equivalent spherical
body. Taking a/b = 1.3, this corresponds to dimensions of
the nucleus of a × b = 1.9 × 1.4 km. This is in excellent
agreement with the rN = 1.71 km measurement from a snap-
shot observation acquired by Lamy et al. (2000) using the
HST.
end quote
So the core measures 1.9km x 1.4km or in round non metric figures of 1 square mile, we cannot assume to know the size of the impactor, however we do know that the eruption in brightness was sudden and large, we can safely assume the impactor was either largish or moving very fast. |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 318530
10/28/2007 10:15 AM | | Re: 17P/Holmes - Enigma 'Comet' | Quote |
To put that in perspective, there are 6 billion people on earth multiply that by 4 times.
Now take just one of those people and compare them to the size of the number of people on earth x 4.
This is an incredibly small mass. How can it be as large as Jupiter and still be 1.9 magnitude and easily visible to the naked eye? Quoting: SPIDER
There is another variable, it is not as simple as a colision, there is additional energy added from an external source. Or the comet is not a comet and it is a unknown structure doing an unknown task. |
| Prof-Rabbit
User ID: 148352
10/28/2007 10:24 AM | | Re: 17P/Holmes - Enigma 'Comet' | Quote |
Now to add some DOOM factor!
We know the relative size of the comet as approximately 1 square mile, if we assume an impact sufficient to degrade 25% of the comets core (reasonable given the size of the expanding cloud) "we" as in the earth is approaching said comet, normally not a problem given it's orbit, however we now have an expanding cloud of debris heading in our general direction while the earth continues on an approach vector.
Question for those who delve in celestial maths:
What is the expansion speed of the "cloud".?
What is the approach speed of the earth relative to the orbital speed of 17/P?
Will the earth orbitally "pass" the approaching cloud, or will we run into it? |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 235208
10/28/2007 10:27 AM | | Re: 17P/Holmes - Enigma 'Comet' | Quote |
Now to add some DOOM factor!
We know the relative size of the comet as approximately 1 square mile, if we assume an impact sufficient to degrade 25% of the comets core (reasonable given the size of the expanding cloud) "we" as in the earth is approaching said comet, normally not a problem given it's orbit, however we now have an expanding cloud of debris heading in our general direction while the earth continues on an approach vector.
Question for those who delve in celestial maths:
What is the expansion speed of the "cloud".?
What is the approach speed of the earth relative to the orbital speed of 17/P?
Will the earth orbitally "pass" the approaching cloud, or will we run into it? Quoting: Prof-Rabbit 148352
you won't get much dangerous debris from 25% of a 1 mile rock |
| A_G1RL
User ID: 273050
10/28/2007 10:28 AM
 | | Re: 17P/Holmes - Enigma 'Comet' | Quote |
Just my two cents on a couple things.
First, I thought Hubble was 'in orbit' so what is all this about MOVING it?
Second, concerning the tail and the explosions... it COULD be that something hit it, it's proximity in the solar system and gravitational effects from sun/planets has caused a shift and compromised it's structure, or enough heat was finally gathered to effect it's structure as well. Either way, something happened to the small structure and it is now emitting a 'cloud'. Couldn't this cloud (which is getting bigger) be the tail that we are looking for and therefore it is traveling AWAY from us. The cloud of debris is dissipating and therefore getting visually bigger.
Just putting in a possibility there.
"When freedom is at stake, silence is not golden....it's yellow" ?
[link to BoldVoices.TV] |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 295517
10/28/2007 10:30 AM | | Re: 17P/Holmes - Enigma 'Comet' | Quote |
Here is what I do know..
There are signs in the Heavens, and in the Earth, and many nations are at war, albeit a subliminal, or secret type, of war. There are rumors of wars too. The waves have been roaring, and many people have fallen away from Jesus, the Gospel. And most churches do not preach truth.
Now we see this wild and exciting massive comet transition.
I, just am, putting two and two together..
There are about 3 possible outcomes.
A New Earth..
Wormwood. ( satan fall, and his angels with him? )
Just another sign.
I will give my opinion, as the days go by..
Like say this gets as big, as the Moon Appears, to the eye.
That ought to yank everyones chain, a bit..
Lets wait, and see.. Quoting: Joseph 318488
Just so you know, Christianity and Truth is an oxymoron. There could be nothing further from the Truth. |
| Prof-Rabbit
User ID: 148352
10/28/2007 10:35 AM | | Re: 17P/Holmes - Enigma 'Comet' | Quote |
Quoting: Anonymous Coward 318508
Lets take a simpler approach, the comet is going round and round minding it's own orbit so to speak and along comes a small solid meteor going in the other direction, in our solar system we have plenty of both, so you have an impact at extremely high speeds, sufficient to fragment the core of the comet, hence the major explosion, since there is little or no friction in space the particles ejected keep expanding.
If my deduction is correct the size of the comet cloud will keep expanding but will also grow "thinner" or more diffused day by day, we should get more detailed pictures of the comet core day by day. Quoting: prof-rabbit
It's a possibility that your theory is correct although it seems a very slim chance that it is because it seems to me that it would be like hitting a bullet with a bb.
Another question I have is - if a collision occurred with another object and caused a cloud of debris, why isn't the cloud being blown into a tail away from the sun by the solar wind? Quoting: Anonymous Coward 318508
That question is fairly easy, a comets tail is "mainly" composed of light materials able to be affected by the solar wind, ice crystals etc.
The debris cloud is composed of matter flung out by the impact explosion, without gravity and friction the ejected matter continues in the direction it left the impact site.
If you imagine flinging a handful of sand in space it will continue in the same direction but will spread out over time.
So here is a question, are we moving into the path of an almighty "shotgun blast"? |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 275504
10/28/2007 10:37 AM | | Re: 17P/Holmes - Enigma 'Comet' | Quote |
here's the encke story from nasa bout the solar wind tearing it apart
NASA Satellite Sees Solar Hurricane Tear Comet Tail Off
10.01.07
NASA's STEREO satellite captured the first images ever of a collision between a solar "hurricane", called a coronal mass ejection (CME), and a comet. The collision caused the complete detachment of the comet's plasma tail.
Images right: This series of three still images were taken from a visualization of Comet Encke flying through the solar storm as witnessed by the STEREO satellite. Note Encke's tail being torn off by the coronal mass ejection in the second and third still above. Credit: NASA
[link to www.nasa.gov] |
| * <----star of destiny
User ID: 279402
10/28/2007 10:49 AM | | Re: 17P/Holmes - Enigma 'Comet' | Quote |
 for life |
| Prof-Rabbit
User ID: 148352
10/28/2007 10:55 AM | | Re: 17P/Holmes - Enigma 'Comet' | Quote |
Now to add some DOOM factor!
We know the relative size of the comet as approximately 1 square mile, if we assume an impact sufficient to degrade 25% of the comets core (reasonable given the size of the expanding cloud) "we" as in the earth is approaching said comet, normally not a problem given it's orbit, however we now have an expanding cloud of debris heading in our general direction while the earth continues on an approach vector.
Question for those who delve in celestial maths:
What is the expansion speed of the "cloud".?
What is the approach speed of the earth relative to the orbital speed of 17/P?
Will the earth orbitally "pass" the approaching cloud, or will we run into it?
you won't get much dangerous debris from 25% of a 1 mile rock Quoting: Anonymous Coward 235208
I beg to differ.
A land impact of a more modest object can also cause severe destruction, through earth shocks and firestorms. One can estimate the approximate area of devastation from such objects by using the relationship area of devastation (in square km) =3D 400 x (kinetic energy in terms of megatons of TNT)2/3. A 500 m object would be expected to devastate an area comparable to Ontario plus Quebec.
The probability of a comet impact is probably less than that posed by near earth asteroids, although it is also much more difficult to defend against (e.g. Comet Hyakutake, which passed very close to the Earth in late March this year, had only been discovered two months prior). The relative speed of impact for comets is, on average, much higher so that a smaller object can pose a greater threat.
Remember how the ground penetrator bombs work? now imagine an impact by something at speeds exceeding 100 kilometers per SECOND. |
| DON'T FORGET THE WARNING
User ID: 283243
10/28/2007 10:59 AM | | Re: 17P/Holmes - Enigma 'Comet' | Quote |
MAY I REMIND EVERYONE THAT IN THE "WARNING" IT WAS SAID THAT THIS EVENT WOULD BE LIKE "TWO STARS COLIDING WITH ONE ANOTHER' and we would be able to see it. This is the beginning. IT IS GOING TO TAKE ABOUT 5-6 MONTHS TO ENTER OUR NECK OF THE WORDS, DON'T FORGET THAT THIS WARNINHG WILL COINCIDE WITH A FEAST DAY OF A MARTERED ECUCHRISTIC SAINT. THERE IS ONE THAT HAS HIS FEAST DAY IN MAY. I AM VREY SICK RIGHT NOW WITH DOUBLE PHENUMONIA OR I WOULD FIND IT FOR YOU. LOOK UP : THE WARNING: CATHOLIC PHROPHECY. AND YOU WILL GET QUITE ENOUGH TO FILL YOUR MIND WITH. |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 275504
10/28/2007 11:00 AM | | Prof-Rabbit
User ID: 148352
10/28/2007 11:08 AM | | Re: 17P/Holmes - Enigma 'Comet' | Quote |
The probability of a comet impact is probably less than that posed by near earth asteroids, although it is also much more difficult to defend against (e.g. Comet Hyakutake, which passed very close to the Earth in late March this year, had only been discovered two months prior). The relative speed of impact for comets is, on average, much higher so that a smaller object can pose a greater threat.
Remember how the ground penetrator bombs work? now imagine an impact by something at speeds exceeding 100 kilometers per SECOND. Quoting: Prof-Rabbit 148352
NOW lets have a look at a known comet and it's relative speed.
A comet speed will increase even further, when entering the inner parts of our Solar System. Comet Hale Bopp will reach a speed around 200,000 km pr hour, while being closest to the Sun (slightly below 1 AU, April 1997).
Oopps, thats about 55 km/s per second, but wait! there's more! add the earth's orbital speed of 30 km/s and we have some very high speed rocks! |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 309819
10/28/2007 11:08 AM | | Re: 17P/Holmes - Enigma 'Comet' | Quote |
MAY I REMIND EVERYONE THAT IN THE "WARNING" IT WAS SAID THAT THIS EVENT WOULD BE LIKE "TWO STARS COLIDING WITH ONE ANOTHER' and we would be able to see it. This is the beginning. IT IS GOING TO TAKE ABOUT 5-6 MONTHS TO ENTER OUR NECK OF THE WORDS, DON'T FORGET THAT THIS WARNINHG WILL COINCIDE WITH A FEAST DAY OF A MARTERED ECUCHRISTIC SAINT. THERE IS ONE THAT HAS HIS FEAST DAY IN MAY. I AM VREY SICK RIGHT NOW WITH DOUBLE PHENUMONIA OR I WOULD FIND IT FOR YOU. LOOK UP : THE WARNING: CATHOLIC PHROPHECY. AND YOU WILL GET QUITE ENOUGH TO FILL YOUR MIND WITH. Quoting: DON'T FORGET THE WARNING 283243
Remember to use oil of oregano for pneumonia. One drop under the tongue a couple of times a day, and also put a few drops in a cup of boiling water to inhale its steam. All GLPers should have oil of oregano by now...you can knock out the pneumonia rapidly with it. |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 164765
10/28/2007 11:19 AM | | Re: 17P/Holmes - Enigma 'Comet' | Quote |
Question is, what effect will this have on the earth, if any?
Why is there no distinct tail, also? Is it moving towards us, or away from us?
This is a very interesting and odd occurrence, again. |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 199381
10/28/2007 11:20 AM | | Re: 17P/Holmes - Enigma 'Comet' | Quote |
Question is, what effect will this have on the earth, if any?
Why is there no distinct tail, also? Is it moving towards us, or away from us?
This is a very interesting and odd occurrence, again. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 164765
Theres no answer to any of those but the general attitude is its not a threat but still interesting. |
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