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Who are the Two Witnesses?

 
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 325252
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11/12/2007 11:34 AM
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Re: Who are the Two Witnesses?
Rev 10:11 And he said unto me, Thou must prophesy """"again"""" before many peoples, and nations, and tongues, and kings.

-------------


The book of revelation is prophesy. i would guess that it has been translated into more than 100 languages.

Revelation has been read by billions since it was written. This would include,, many peoples, and nations, and tongues, and kings.

To my knowledge, John does not return in the times of the book of revelation.


Yes, John the beloved is in the book of the Revelation. Look at the beginning of chapter 11, it is he who is given a reed to measure the temple of God. And that is not some physical building in Jerusalem of anywhere else. It will be the people of God. He will appear just prior to the two "olive trees".



A couple of points here, first, The I 0f 11.1 and 11.2 are not the two witnesses, agreed.


The I could mean Jesus. Alternately, 11.1 and 2 do not belong there. No way it is John.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 325252


eg, in 11.3 I will cause my two witnesses to prophesy,, this I is Jesus,
divisiontheory
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11/12/2007 11:35 AM
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Re: Who are the Two Witnesses?
The two witnesses were the two Messiahs that appeared in Jerusalem in 33 AD. History has recorded one as having the name of Jesus Christ, and the other as having the name of Jesus Bar Abbas. Jesus Bar Abbas is also known as Saint Thomas, the Twin.

See [link to www.divisiontheory.com]
Anonymous Coward
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11/12/2007 11:50 AM
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Re: Who are the Two Witnesses?
Ecclesaistes 3:11, "He hath made everything beautiful in his time: also he has set the world in their heart, so that no man can find out the work that God makes from the beginning to the end."
Scott Hofstee (OP)

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11/12/2007 12:42 PM
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Re: Who are the Two Witnesses?
Rev 10:11 And he said unto me, Thou must prophesy """"again"""" before many peoples, and nations, and tongues, and kings.

-------------


The book of revelation is prophesy. i would guess that it has been translated into more than 100 languages.

Revelation has been read by billions since it was written. This would include,, many peoples, and nations, and tongues, and kings.

To my knowledge, John does not return in the times of the book of revelation.


Yes, John the beloved is in the book of the Revelation. Look at the beginning of chapter 11, it is he who is given a reed to measure the temple of God. And that is not some physical building in Jerusalem of anywhere else. It will be the people of God. He will appear just prior to the two "olive trees".



A couple of points here, first, The I 0f 11.1 and 11.2 are not the two witnesses, agreed.


The I could mean Jesus. Alternately, 11.1 and 2 do not belong there. No way it is John.


eg, in 11.3 I will cause my two witnesses to prophesy,, this I is Jesus,
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 325252


Verses 11:1 and 11:2 are a continuation of and directly follow the verse you quote above:

Rev 10:11 And he said unto me, Thou must prophesy """"again"""" before many peoples, and nations, and tongues, and kings.

It is most assuredly John, the revelator, the beloved. It is his destiny to measure the temple of God, the living stones that are His people, that make up His LIVING TEMPLE.
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Anonymous Coward
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11/12/2007 01:10 PM
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Re: Who are the Two Witnesses?
I happen to believe the two witnesses are none other than Jacob and Essau.
Scott Hofstee (OP)

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11/12/2007 01:13 PM
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Re: Who are the Two Witnesses?
I happen to believe the two witnesses are none other than Jacob and Essau.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 162926


ok...what's your point?
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Scott Hofstee (OP)

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11/12/2007 02:17 PM
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Re: Who are the Two Witnesses?
The two witnesses were the two Messiahs that appeared in Jerusalem in 33 AD. History has recorded one as having the name of Jesus Christ, and the other as having the name of Jesus Bar Abbas. Jesus Bar Abbas is also known as Saint Thomas, the Twin.

See [link to www.divisiontheory.com]
 Quoting: divisiontheory 325381


put away the crack pipe...
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Anonymous Coward
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11/12/2007 02:38 PM
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Re: Who are the Two Witnesses?
It is quite obvious who the two witnesses are...

The only two biblical charactors that have not died the 1st death...

Enoch and Elijah

The importance of the Book of Enoch has been downplayed by pretty much everybody. However, it plays a pivital role in todays society.

God obviously had an important reason for taking these two while they were still alive.
Scott Hofstee (OP)

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11/12/2007 02:42 PM
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Re: Who are the Two Witnesses?
no they arent the only two. Neither have Michael or Gabriel. Better think your broad brush statement through.
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mountian gate
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Re: Who are the Two Witnesses?
The Two Olive Trees

The Revelation of the Two Witnesses



The “two olive trees” is another name given for the “two witnesses” or the “two anointed ones” that stand before the Lord of the whole earth in Revelation 11 and Zechariah 4



Revelation 11:3-4

3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.



Zechariah 4:11-14

11 Then answered I, and said unto him, What are these two olive trees upon the right side of the candlestick and upon the left side thereof?

12 And I answered again, and said unto him, What be these two olive branches which through the two golden pipes empty the golden oil out of themselves?

13 And he answered me and said, Knowest thou not what these be? And I said, No, my lord.

14 14 Then said he, These are the two anointed ones, that stand by the LORD of the whole earth.



There is great speculation and debate as to who the two witnesses are. The most popular theory is the theory that Moses and Elijah are the two witnesses because they were on the Mount of Transfiguration with Jesus or Enoch and Elijah, based on the fact that they never died.



The truth is in the scriptures and the Lord laid out the answers in them and in the construction of the temple as He did with Jesus, the Lamb of God. Let’s take a look.



I Kings 6:21-28

21 So Solomon overlaid the house within with pure gold: and he made a partition by the chains of gold before the oracle; and he overlaid it with gold.

22 And the whole house he overlaid with gold, until he had finished all the house: also the whole altar that was by the oracle he overlaid with gold.

23 And within the oracle he made two cherubims of olive tree, each ten cubits high.

24 And five cubits was the one wing of the cherub, and five cubits the other wing of the cherub: from the uttermost part of the one wing unto the uttermost part of the other were ten cubits.

25 And the other cherub was ten cubits: both the cherubims were of one measure and one size.

26 The height of the one cherub was ten cubits, and so was it of the other cherub.

27 And he set the cherubims within the inner house: and they stretched forth the wings of the cherubims, so that the wing of the one touched the one wall, and the wing of the other cherub touched the other wall; and their wings touched one another in the midst of the house.

28 And he overlaid the cherubims with gold.



Here is the first mention of the “two olive trees” as two cherubims. They were in the temple because of their place in the Kingdom of Heaven, which would at the end come to earth. First, Immanuel had to come, the first born of many brothers.



Romans 8:29-30

29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.



Jesus was the firstborn of those here on earth who came from Heaven. The firstborn of those who were with the Father before the foundations of the earth. The word “foreknow” means to have intimate knowledge of beforehand. The Father had intimate knowledge because these brothers like the Lord Jesus were with the Father before their incarnation here on earth. Jesus was over all of Heaven and had to come to earth to suffer as a man in perfect obedience to the Father in order to be given the glory He had with the Father in Heaven here on earth. This is why He was given all authority in Heaven and Earth. He overcame every obstacle that men face and never once sinned. The scriptures clearly declare that the earth is waiting for and longing for the manifestation or revealing of these “sons of God” into the earth.



Romans 8:18-19

18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.

19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.



So the “two olive trees” will be the “two cherubim” incarnated into earthen vessels as Immanuel was for the 1260 days of His ministry. Their ministry will be 1260 days as well, completing the second half of Daniel’s 70th week.



The scriptures give us further clues that the two olive trees are two cherubim and who they are.



Revelation 11:7-8

7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascended out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.



This scripture is important because it gives two clues by the “spiritual” cities it mentions. Sodom is the city where the Lord sent “two angels” to destroy the city with fire.



Genesis 19:1

1 And there came two angels to Sodom at even; and Lot sat in the gate of Sodom: and Lot seeing them rose up to meet them; and he bowed himself with his face toward the ground;



Egypt is the where the Lord sent two physical brothers, Moses and Aaron to set the children of Israel free and destroy Egypt.



Exodus 4:29-31

29 And Moses and Aaron went and gathered together all the elders of the children of Israel:

30 And Aaron spake all the words which the LORD had spoken unto Moses, and did the signs in the sight of the people.

31 And the people believed: and when they heard that the LORD had visited the children of Israel, and that he had looked upon their affliction, then they bowed their heads and worshipped.



He also refers to it as the “great city”. The great city is referred to later in Revelation as being Babylon, not Jerusalem. Babylon is a “type” of the world and its systems and governments.



Revelation 16:19

19 And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.



So the city they are slain in is never mentioned to be Jerusalem. That is because Jesus was never crucified in Jerusalem according to scripture but outside the city.



Hebrews 13:11-14

11 For the bodies of those beasts, whose blood is brought into the sanctuary by the high priest for sin, are burned without the camp.

12 Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people with his own blood, suffered without the gate.

13 Let us go forth therefore unto him without the camp, bearing his reproach.

14 For here have we no continuing city, but we seek one to come.



Outside the city was very significant in that it was a type of the entire world or the “great city” or Babylon not Jerusalem. This is why these cities are prefaced by the phrase, “which are spiritually called” Sodom and Egypt.



The two cherubim are included in the construction of the Ark of the Covenant as well, as mentioned in the following passage of scripture.



Hebrews 9:1-5

1 Then verily the first covenant had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary.

2 For there was a tabernacle made; the first, wherein was the candlestick, and the table, and the shewbread; which is called the sanctuary.

3 And after the second veil, the tabernacle which is called the Holiest of all;

4 Which had the golden censer, and the ark of the covenant overlaid round about with gold, wherein was the golden pot that had manna, and Aaron's rod that budded, and the tables of the covenant;

5 And over it the cherubims of glory shadowing the mercyseat; of which we cannot now speak particularly.



Here is Strong’s definition of the word cherubim:

5502 cheroubim

cherubim, two golden figures of living creatures with two wings; they were fastened to the lid of the ark of the covenant in the Holy of Holies (both at the sacred tabernacle and of Solomon's Temple) in such a manner that their faces were turned toward each other and down toward the lid, which they overshadowed with their expanded wings. Between these figures God was regarded as having fixed His dwelling place.



It was “two angels” announcing the resurrection of Jesus.



John 20:11-14

11 But Mary stood without at the sepulchre weeping: and as she wept, she stooped down, and looked into the sepulchre,

12 And seeth two angels in white sitting, the one at the head, and the other at the feet, where the body of Jesus had lain.

13 And they say unto her, Woman, why weepest thou? She saith unto them, Because they have taken away my Lord, and I know not where they have laid him.

14 And when she had thus said, she turned herself back, and saw Jesus standing, and knew not that it was Jesus.



In Solomon’s temple, on the porch, he also had two pillars made named “Jachin” which means, “He will establish” on the right and “Boaz” which means, “fleetness” on the left. These two pillars are a type of the “two witnesses”. Interesting as well are the promises made to the overcomers in the church of “Philadelphia” a Greek word that means. “brotherly love”, that the Lord would make them to be” pillars in the temple of My God”.



I Kings 7:21

21 And he set up the pillars in the porch of the temple: and he set up the right pillar, and called the name thereof Jachin: and he set up the left pillar, and called the name thereof Boaz.



Revelation 3:7-12

7 And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write; These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth;

8 I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name.

9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.

10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

11 Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.

12 Him that overcomes will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.



So it is abundantly clear that the two olive trees are two cherubim that will be incarnated into earthen vessels as Jesus was. The scriptures bear this out in type and foreshadow by the mention of the city of Egypt spiritually being spoken of as the place where the “two witnesses” are slain. Egypt is where two physical brothers, Moses and Aaron, were sent as we mentioned before. There is also a type in the “sons of thunder”, James and John who asked to be the two witnesses and who were present at the mount of the transfiguration of Jesus.



Matthew 20:21-23

21 And he said unto her, What wilt thou? She saith unto him, Grant that these my two sons may sit, the one on thy right hand, and the other on the left, in thy kingdom.

22 But Jesus answered and said, Ye know not what ye ask. Are ye able to drink of the cup that I shall drink of, and to be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with? They say unto him, We are able.

23 And he saith unto them, Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with: but to sit on my right hand, and on my left, is not mine to give, but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared of my Father.



The Lord said that it shall be "given" to those whom it is prepared of my Father. He wasn't saying that it wasn't available to someone. Just not to them.



On the mount of transfiguration the Lord also took with him Peter, James and John (read Matthew 17:1-5). It was there that Jesus met with Moses and Elijah. We are given a prophetic picture of Jesus and the two witnesses when you have the “rock” in Peter and the “sons of thunder” in James and John. Peter is a type of Christ (read Matthew16:15-19) and James and John, two physical brothers, are a type of the “two witnesses” which were mirrored in the appearance of Moses and Elijah on the mount of Jesus’ transfiguration.



The scriptures also point to the specific identity of the cherubim who will come as earthly, physical brothers. They are Michael and Gabriel, the two who were responsible for delivering the revelation of the end of days to the prophet Daniel. Daniel mentions that Michael will “stand up” and in the following verse says that “many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake”. Michael and his army will be among those that will awaken. We also see Michael associated with Moses in the book of Jude’s account of the dispute over the body of Moses. It is also Michael and his army of angels, which will have awakened in the dust of the earth, that face the dragon and his angels which are going to awaken in the dust of the earth as well. Notice the war is in the heavens, which is the mind or the “second heaven” and when that battle is done the dragon is cast “into the earth”. He is no longer able to access the minds of God’s “overcomers”. The Kingdom of Heaven will have fully come into the minds of those who were foreknown by the Father and the Son. The dragon will be confined fully to an earthen vessel, no longer able to bring his accusation of the brethren to those who have made ready. But woe to those who dwell in the “earth” which means the carnality of this life, for the dragon will be given free rule over them for 42 months.



Daniel 12:1-2

1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.



Jude 1:9

9 Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.



Revelation 12:7-13

7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.

9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman, which brought forth the man child.



We know that Gabriel was the angel that brought the revelation of the end of days to Daniel but He was also associated with the “spirit of Elijah”. He was the angel that announced the birth of both John “the Baptist” who came in the “spirit and power of Elijah” and as John the Baptist was the forerunner of Jesus, so too was Gabriel the forerunner of Jesus’ appearance into earth, announcing His birth to Mary and Joseph.



Luke 1:13-19

13 But the angel said unto him, Fear not, Zacharias: for thy prayer is heard; and thy wife Elisabeth shall bear thee a son, and thou shalt call his name John.

14 And thou shalt have joy and gladness; and many shall rejoice at his birth.

15 For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb.

16 And many of the children of Israel shall he turn to the Lord their God.

17 And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.

18 And Zacharias said unto the angel, Whereby shall I know this? for I am an old man, and my wife well stricken in years.

19 And the angel answering said unto him, I am Gabriel, that stand in the presence of God; and am sent to speak unto thee, and to show thee these glad tidings.



Luke 1:26-32

26 And in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God unto a city of Galilee, named Nazareth,

27 To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin's name was Mary.

28 And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favored, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.

29 And when she saw him, she was troubled at his saying, and cast in her mind what manner of salutation this should be.

30 And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God.

31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.

32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:



Matthew 1:18-25

18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.

19 Then Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not willing to make her a public example, was minded to put her away privily.

20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.

21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

22 Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying,

23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

24 Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him, and took unto him his wife:

25 And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS.



So from this we see Michael associated with the “spirit of Moses” and Gabriel associated with the “spirit of Elijah” in John the Baptist and his announcing the birth of Jesus. They are the two olive trees of Revelation 11 and Zechariah 4. They are the “two anointed ones”, the “sons of thunder”, the “two witnesses” that stand on the right and left of the Lord Jesus, Immanuel, the King of Kings and Lord of Lords. They are here on this earth and will soon fully awaken to all that they were before the foundations of the earth, along with the rest of the Kingdom of God, each in his own order and time.



The kingdom of God has been put into this earth, deposited into those whom were with the Father before the foundations of the earth. Soon many will awaken to everlasting life or everlasting shame and contempt. We are the temple of God, we are the New Jerusalem. The Kingdom that has been in Heaven is about to fully come into the earth. If you do not see with the eyes of the Spirit you will not recognize the Kingdom, this is why the Lord said what He did to the church at Laodicea.



Revelation 3:18

18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.



Daniel 12:2-3

2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

3 And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.



1 Corinthians 15:22-25

22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.



Hebrews 12:22-23

22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,

23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
 Quoting: Scott Hofstee
it apears the writing as some what exaderation. the witnesses take pictures of the great pyrimaid in the sky,as mountian has been miss interpated for some many thousand years as one secound could be a thousand years.for in my hands was the prints of peace dec 21 2006 in sequence to the great day of knowledge.i also have given witness to the great pyrimad of timming as the light was lighter than light. for i strive the true nobel peace prize,i remain for my people lights on sunglasses.for the back of these prints is a tree of great knowledge,it is to be turned into a flag for world peace,let it be known the true rivers of great knowledge is off the miss river as the currents of these rivers is the great knowledge for the people,down the road the great suns mound natchez miss,as i continue what i beleive to be tomb travel,please pray for peace.as the hawk of ancient egypt has new meaning,for it has been a great guide for me.as the ancient helicopter in egypt paintings will verify a mountian in the gute of great knowledge as the prints of peace will show as it is missing the afgan flag only later to give new meaning,as the blackhawk helicopter of jimmy carter days will soon verify,for the great rock of knowledge is now with us.this location with the osirs star will soon give great new meaning.
Anonymous Coward
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11/12/2007 02:49 PM
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Re: Who are the Two Witnesses?
no they arent the only two. Neither have Michael or Gabriel. Better think your broad brush statement through.
 Quoting: Scott Hofstee
Name another that God has taken from the earth without the subject dying first.
Scott Hofstee (OP)

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11/12/2007 02:50 PM
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Re: Who are the Two Witnesses?
it apears the writing as some what exaderation. the witnesses take pictures of the great pyrimaid in the sky,as mountian has been miss interpated for some many thousand years as one secound could be a thousand years.for in my hands was the prints of peace dec 21 2006 in sequence to the great day of knowledge.i also have given witness to the great pyrimad of timming as the light was lighter than light. for i strive the true nobel peace prize,i remain for my people lights on sunglasses.for the back of these prints is a tree of great knowledge,it is to be turned into a flag for world peace,let it be known the true rivers of great knowledge is off the miss river as the currents of these rivers is the great knowledge for the people,down the road the great suns mound natchez miss,as i continue what i beleive to be tomb travel,please pray for peace.as the hawk of ancient egypt has new meaning,for it has been a great guide for me.as the ancient helicopter in egypt paintings will verify a mountian in the gute of great knowledge as the prints of peace will show as it is missing the afgan flag only later to give new meaning,as the blackhawk helicopter of jimmy carter days will soon verify,for the great rock of knowledge is now with us.this location with the osirs star will soon give great new meaning.
 Quoting: mountian gate 323127


it appears that we may have an early applicant for the stupid post of the day competition...congratulations!
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Scott Hofstee (OP)

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11/12/2007 02:54 PM
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Re: Who are the Two Witnesses?
It is quite obvious who the two witnesses are...

The only two biblical charactors that have not died the 1st death...

Enoch and Elijah

The importance of the Book of Enoch has been downplayed by pretty much everybody. However, it plays a pivital role in todays society.

God obviously had an important reason for taking these two while they were still alive.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 254942

the problem with your theory is that you assume they didnt die. be assured they died. Their earthen vessels were not able to stand before the throne. Thus they were changed and joined the residents of Heaven, being changed. Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom.
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mountian gate
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11/12/2007 02:57 PM
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Re: Who are the Two Witnesses?
The two witnesses were the two Messiahs that appeared in Jerusalem in 33 AD. History has recorded one as having the name of Jesus Christ, and the other as having the name of Jesus Bar Abbas. Jesus Bar Abbas is also known as Saint Thomas, the Twin.

See [link to www.divisiontheory.com]
 Quoting: divisiontheory 325381
the bar is of great knowledge as many can be confused with the gate on top of the pyrimad.as in all ancient egypt there is a bar on every capsule of travel,i have seen the fallen angels dec 21 2006 in sequence to the maya date.look at the back of the dollar there are 13 bars this knowledge to give new meaning.soon releigion and deciplens of all nations will understand that there will be new meaning, we are in a age that we must comfront one another as the great rock is here.we are in a age of great ballance as all animals plants men alike,as in all ancient egypt the scales will soon have new meaning.lets not force one beleif on another,but respect what they do not know.i remain lights on sunglasses.for the yoke i carry i carry for you.
mountian gate
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11/12/2007 03:06 PM
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Re: Who are the Two Witnesses?
it apears the writing as some what exaderation. the witnesses take pictures of the great pyrimaid in the sky,as mountian has been miss interpated for some many thousand years as one secound could be a thousand years.for in my hands was the prints of peace dec 21 2006 in sequence to the great day of knowledge.i also have given witness to the great pyrimad of timming as the light was lighter than light. for i strive the true nobel peace prize,i remain for my people lights on sunglasses.for the back of these prints is a tree of great knowledge,it is to be turned into a flag for world peace,let it be known the true rivers of great knowledge is off the miss river as the currents of these rivers is the great knowledge for the people,down the road the great suns mound natchez miss,as i continue what i beleive to be tomb travel,please pray for peace.as the hawk of ancient egypt has new meaning,for it has been a great guide for me.as the ancient helicopter in egypt paintings will verify a mountian in the gute of great knowledge as the prints of peace will show as it is missing the afgan flag only later to give new meaning,as the blackhawk helicopter of jimmy carter days will soon verify,for the great rock of knowledge is now with us.this location with the osirs star will soon give great new meaning.


it appears that we may have an early applicant for the stupid post of the day competition...congratulations!
 Quoting: Scott Hofstee
it apears there is a over tone in your voice.
Anonymous Coward
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11/12/2007 03:07 PM
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Re: Who are the Two Witnesses?
It is quite obvious who the two witnesses are...

The only two biblical charactors that have not died the 1st death...

Enoch and Elijah

The importance of the Book of Enoch has been downplayed by pretty much everybody. However, it plays a pivital role in todays society.

God obviously had an important reason for taking these two while they were still alive.

the problem with your theory is that you assume they didnt die. be assured they died. Their earthen vessels were not able to stand before the throne. Thus they were changed and joined the residents of Heaven, being changed. Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom.
 Quoting: Scott Hofstee
The position I am coming from makes no assumptions what-so-ever. However, you are assuming several things in the statement you just made. There is a saying about that you know...

Why would God take them alive?! I doubt very seriously that God does anything without purpose. In simple evaluation of the doctrine itself that stipulates the taking of these individuals, I can accept that God took them while they were alive FOR A REASON!
Scott Hofstee (OP)

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11/12/2007 03:16 PM
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Re: Who are the Two Witnesses?
yes he did take them for a reason. but it wasnt to be the two witnesses. The primary problem with a lot of thinking about life and death is that most think living in these bodies is life and leaving this life is death. And it is the opposite. We are in a body of death as the apostle Paul clearly stated. That body cannot dwell in the presence of the Lord. The Glory of the Lord consumes death. The angels Michael and Gabriel were always standing before the Lord of the Earth. Not Elijah or Enoch. They have been sent to earth and shall be quicken at the appointed time.
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Anonymous Coward
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11/12/2007 03:20 PM
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Re: Who are the Two Witnesses?
There will be two individuals but there will also be two "companies". The two individuals will be the heads of these "two bodies" The first manifestation of these bodies will be the 7,000 that will come in the "Spirit and power of Elijah". They will prepare the way for the coming government of God, which will come in the "Spirit and power of Moses". This will be the 144,000. So it will be two indivduals and two companies.
 Quoting: Scott Hofstee 325317

lmao
mountian gate
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11/12/2007 04:43 PM
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Re: Who are the Two Witnesses?
i will try to put this in simple form,when general betrayus was asked who are the two witnesses,what was his answer? also there was a picture of president busch taking a fake picture in anbar as bar rises up on a fake maya background,now the alter is the mountian,it can also be interpeted as pyrimad,do the research on enoch and the fallen angels. i seen this on dec 21 2006 in sequence to the maya date.location is ambush at the river of secrets, there are four rivers in all location redriver wma wildlife management area louisana down the road the great suns mound natchez miss.this is the great secret, its not the tigers river it is our rivers usa the altar is here,as it was writen that is was in egypt.for what comes around goes around as we aproach a great year of knowledge 2012.the true orgin of ballance is here as the T is the great knowledge of weights as in all ancient egypt, for i carry the yoke and the conue for what i do for you i ask nothing of you.i remain lights on sunglasses.as i have two more rivers to cross it will be diffacult ther currents are fast this is my only way,for what i do i do for you.
Scott Hofstee (OP)

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11/12/2007 04:51 PM
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Re: Who are the Two Witnesses?
i will try to put this in simple form,when general betrayus was asked who are the two witnesses,what was his answer? also there was a picture of president busch taking a fake picture in anbar as bar rises up on a fake maya background,now the alter is the mountian,it can also be interpeted as pyrimad,do the research on enoch and the fallen angels. i seen this on dec 21 2006 in sequence to the maya date.location is ambush at the river of secrets, there are four rivers in all location redriver wma wildlife management area louisana down the road the great suns mound natchez miss.this is the great secret, its not the tigers river it is our rivers usa the altar is here,as it was writen that is was in egypt.for what comes around goes around as we aproach a great year of knowledge 2012.the true orgin of ballance is here as the T is the great knowledge of weights as in all ancient egypt, for i carry the yoke and the conue for what i do for you i ask nothing of you.i remain lights on sunglasses.as i have two more rivers to cross it will be diffacult ther currents are fast this is my only way,for what i do i do for you.
 Quoting: mountian gate 323127



send in the clowns...
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Anonymous Coward
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11/12/2007 04:53 PM
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Re: Who are the Two Witnesses?
Two witnesses = Left eyeball, Right eyeball
mountian gate
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11/12/2007 05:05 PM
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Re: Who are the Two Witnesses?
Two witnesses = Left eyeball, Right eyeball
 Quoting: Phoenix 2012
phoenix it apears i keep on talking to the wall,shall we now look at the tombs in egypt as i can decifer.notice the wavy lines,that is what you see when the bar rises.can we take the wheels of great knowledge to help bring peace as we aproch a year of great knowledge? 13 13
Anonymous Coward
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11/12/2007 05:09 PM
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Re: Who are the Two Witnesses?
Two witnesses = Left eyeball, Right eyeball
phoenix it apears i keep on talking to the wall,shall we now look at the tombs in egypt as i can decifer.notice the wavy lines,that is what you see when the bar rises.can we take the wheels of great knowledge to help bring peace as we aproch a year of great knowledge? 13 13
 Quoting: mountian gate 323127


You haven't been talking to the wall at all. I was taking a day or two to decide how I would like to respond. I am also into the tombs of Egypt and the great year. I seldom have talked about that info.
Scott Hofstee (OP)

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11/12/2007 05:13 PM
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Re: Who are the Two Witnesses?
Two witnesses = Left eyeball, Right eyeball
phoenix it apears i keep on talking to the wall,shall we now look at the tombs in egypt as i can decifer.notice the wavy lines,that is what you see when the bar rises.can we take the wheels of great knowledge to help bring peace as we aproch a year of great knowledge? 13 13


You haven't been talking to the wall at all. I was taking a day or two to decide how I would like to respond. I am also into the tombs of Egypt and the great year. I seldom have talked about that info.
 Quoting: Phoenix 2012


They may not know who the two witnesses are but mountain gate and Pheonix sure seem like candidates for the "two witlesses"...wonder if the local mental hospitals have had some absenteeism recently?
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Anonymous Coward
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11/12/2007 05:19 PM
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Re: Who are the Two Witnesses?
Two witnesses = Left eyeball, Right eyeball
phoenix it apears i keep on talking to the wall,shall we now look at the tombs in egypt as i can decifer.notice the wavy lines,that is what you see when the bar rises.can we take the wheels of great knowledge to help bring peace as we aproch a year of great knowledge? 13 13


You haven't been talking to the wall at all. I was taking a day or two to decide how I would like to respond. I am also into the tombs of Egypt and the great year. I seldom have talked about that info.


They may not know who the two witnesses are but mountain gate and Pheonix sure seem like candidates for the "two witlesses"...wonder if the local mental hospitals have had some absenteeism recently?
 Quoting: Scott Hofstee


Sheer genius religitard! It is humorous watching you debate the two witnesses over and over again ad nauseum. Hey why don't you talk with ME114 Tell her I sent ya.
Scott Hofstee (OP)

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11/12/2007 05:33 PM
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Re: Who are the Two Witnesses?
Two witnesses = Left eyeball, Right eyeball
phoenix it apears i keep on talking to the wall,shall we now look at the tombs in egypt as i can decifer.notice the wavy lines,that is what you see when the bar rises.can we take the wheels of great knowledge to help bring peace as we aproch a year of great knowledge? 13 13


You haven't been talking to the wall at all. I was taking a day or two to decide how I would like to respond. I am also into the tombs of Egypt and the great year. I seldom have talked about that info.


They may not know who the two witnesses are but mountain gate and Pheonix sure seem like candidates for the "two witlesses"...wonder if the local mental hospitals have had some absenteeism recently?


Sheer genius religitard! It is humorous watching you debate the two witnesses over and over again ad nauseum. Hey why don't you talk with ME114 Tell her I sent ya.
 Quoting: Phoenix 2012


And you know what the best part of it is? getting wannabe geniuses like yourself to creep out of the wood work with your incredibly ignorant ideas.
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Anonymous Coward
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11/12/2007 05:46 PM
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Re: Who are the Two Witnesses?
Two witnesses = Left eyeball, Right eyeball
phoenix it apears i keep on talking to the wall,shall we now look at the tombs in egypt as i can decifer.notice the wavy lines,that is what you see when the bar rises.can we take the wheels of great knowledge to help bring peace as we aproch a year of great knowledge? 13 13


You haven't been talking to the wall at all. I was taking a day or two to decide how I would like to respond. I am also into the tombs of Egypt and the great year. I seldom have talked about that info.


They may not know who the two witnesses are but mountain gate and Pheonix sure seem like candidates for the "two witlesses"...wonder if the local mental hospitals have had some absenteeism recently?


Sheer genius religitard! It is humorous watching you debate the two witnesses over and over again ad nauseum. Hey why don't you talk with ME114 Tell her I sent ya.


And you know what the best part of it is? getting wannabe geniuses like yourself to creep out of the wood work with your incredibly ignorant ideas.
 Quoting: Scott Hofstee


Is that the best you have ? I propose a challenge:
You tell me why Uriel was removed in the bible in under 10 mins and we will talk about your two witnesses.

Give me your best shot.
Anonymous Coward
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11/12/2007 05:47 PM
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Re: Who are the Two Witnesses?
You psuedo-christians are pretty funny..

but know this...you'll know the two witnesses when they come, and not before.
Scott Hofstee (OP)

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11/12/2007 06:00 PM
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Re: Who are the Two Witnesses?
Two witnesses = Left eyeball, Right eyeball
phoenix it apears i keep on talking to the wall,shall we now look at the tombs in egypt as i can decifer.notice the wavy lines,that is what you see when the bar rises.can we take the wheels of great knowledge to help bring peace as we aproch a year of great knowledge? 13 13


You haven't been talking to the wall at all. I was taking a day or two to decide how I would like to respond. I am also into the tombs of Egypt and the great year. I seldom have talked about that info.


They may not know who the two witnesses are but mountain gate and Pheonix sure seem like candidates for the "two witlesses"...wonder if the local mental hospitals have had some absenteeism recently?


Sheer genius religitard! It is humorous watching you debate the two witnesses over and over again ad nauseum. Hey why don't you talk with ME114 Tell her I sent ya.


And you know what the best part of it is? getting wannabe geniuses like yourself to creep out of the wood work with your incredibly ignorant ideas.


Is that the best you have ? I propose a challenge:
You tell me why Uriel was removed in the bible in under 10 mins and we will talk about your two witnesses.

Give me your best shot.

 Quoting: Phoenix 2012


einstein, Uriel is in the Book Enoch, which I have posted on my website and have read many times and happens to be canonical to many people. What is your point? You trying to prove to someone here that you are smart? Uriel is one of the seven thunders, the seven angels around the throne of God. So what...
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Scott Hofstee (OP)

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11/12/2007 06:02 PM
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Re: Who are the Two Witnesses?
You psuedo-christians are pretty funny..

but know this...you'll know the two witnesses when they come, and not before.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 306682


oh really? kind of like all the people that knew Immanuel was the Son of God when he came? How many were with him at the end? you assume way too much.
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