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Who are the Two Witnesses?

 
Scott Hofstee (OP)

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11/12/2007 08:06 PM
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Re: Who are the Two Witnesses?
It's Phoenix, not pheonix. A common mistake with those that maintain less than high school equivalence.

Hmmm...what to do...do I correct the spelling in posts or do I leave them as is...i need time to think about this feenicks


Last tit for tat lol. was in response to your 2012 comment
 Quoting: Phoenix 2012


no problem lol...peace to you
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Anonymous Coward
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11/12/2007 08:08 PM
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Re: Who are the Two Witnesses?
Peace to you as well, my friend.
Anonymous Coward
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11/12/2007 08:29 PM
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Re: Who are the Two Witnesses?
Phoenix comes from the Egyptian Pa Henok, which means house of Enoch.

So technically it should be speeled Pahenok

alot has happened since then
Anonymous Coward
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11/12/2007 08:30 PM
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Re: Who are the Two Witnesses?
Enoch is actually the father of all the angels, so someone who is of Pa Henok is an offspring of Enoch.

:)
Anonymous Coward
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11/12/2007 08:31 PM
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Re: Who are the Two Witnesses?
Metatron now.
Anonymous Coward
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11/12/2007 08:33 PM
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Re: Who are the Two Witnesses?
I have a theory that the six sons of Enoch where actually six of the seven incarnate with Enoch, one stayed aloft, Chamuel, the one who faces God.
Anonymous Coward
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11/12/2007 08:34 PM
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Re: Who are the Two Witnesses?
Chamuel is a doll! He looks like Michael.
Anonymous Coward
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11/12/2007 08:38 PM
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Re: Who are the Two Witnesses?
Where did Scot go, is he busy reading Levithians or Corinthians and eating a steak? :D
Scott Hofstee (OP)

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11/12/2007 08:42 PM
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Re: Who are the Two Witnesses?
Where did Scot go, is he busy reading Levithians or Corinthians and eating a steak? :D
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 103782

drinking a can of arizona ice tea and trying to see if there are anymore 99.00 HD DVD players at Best buy lol i got to see my favorite movie when it comes out in December in HD Blade Runner - Final Cut
To visit our website or message board, [link to thedaysofthunder.com]
Anonymous Coward
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11/12/2007 08:49 PM
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Re: Who are the Two Witnesses?
Whomever they are, the two witnesses will soon appear. God has chosen them. The remainder of the details are a mystery that we can only speculate upon.
Scott Hofstee (OP)

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11/12/2007 09:28 PM
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Re: Who are the Two Witnesses?
Whomever they are, the two witnesses will soon appear. God has chosen them. The remainder of the details are a mystery that we can only speculate upon.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 323821

yes they will
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mountian gate
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11/12/2007 09:31 PM
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Re: Who are the Two Witnesses?
Whomever they are, the two witnesses will soon appear. God has chosen them. The remainder of the details are a mystery that we can only speculate upon.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 323821
they have already apeared, ask general betrayus.look at the picture at anbar with president bush although it is a fake maya background.they take pictures of the gate as it rises in the sky for i have seen this happen on dec 21 2006 bin sequence to the maya dec 21 2012,i had the prints of peace in my hand,i never expexted the great light of timming nor there to be a witness taking pictures,i remain lights on sunglasses for i strive the true nobel peace prize.god have mercy on us all.
Anonymous Coward
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11/12/2007 09:32 PM
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Re: Who are the Two Witnesses?
Awesome Posts 782 :) I love the flower of life.

13 circles round they go!
Deliver life to and fro;

Arcs in boxes do ring true;
Zero time is now due;

In stone steps Ice is formed;
Garden flowers in time mourned;
-Phoenix
Anonymous Coward
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11/12/2007 09:43 PM
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Re: Who are the Two Witnesses?
book
Anonymous Coward
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11/12/2007 09:50 PM
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Re: Who are the Two Witnesses?
Me and a dog named Blue?
mountian gate
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11/12/2007 09:52 PM
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Re: Who are the Two Witnesses?
Awesome Posts 782 :) I love the flower of life.

13 circles round they go!
Deliver life to and fro;

Arcs in boxes do ring true;
Zero time is now due;

In stone steps Ice is formed;
Garden flowers in time mourned;
-Phoenix

 Quoting: Phoenix 2012
phoenix 2012 my emails do not work sinse my computer was hacked,the truth of the feather is 13 thanks for your info,im still learning how to work a computer,dont know how to paste but if you could track my words maybe we can put all this together as the great year of knowledge will soon be here, four d snow ski trip soon near,one box of a trailor shall hold clue,one kitchenet to.water gate true mountian gate near, vision is the language as always.the truth i am peace 351 peace plan.
Anonymous Coward
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11/12/2007 09:56 PM
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Re: Who are the Two Witnesses?
Awesome Posts 782 :) I love the flower of life.

13 circles round they go!
Deliver life to and fro;

Arcs in boxes do ring true;
Zero time is now due;

In stone steps Ice is formed;
Garden flowers in time mourned;
-Phoenix

phoenix 2012 my emails do not work sinse my computer was hacked,the truth of the feather is 13 thanks for your info,im still learning how to work a computer,dont know how to paste but if you could track my words maybe we can put all this together as the great year of knowledge will soon be here, four d snow ski trip soon near,one box of a trailor shall hold clue,one kitchenet to.water gate true mountian gate near, vision is the language as always.the truth i am peace 351 peace plan.
 Quoting: mountian gate 323127


Np on learning how to use the computer. I was there once too. I am keeping track of all you have said my friend.
akkiko

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Philippines
11/12/2007 09:59 PM
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Re: Who are the Two Witnesses?
SO NOW....WHO ARE THE TWO WITNESS???????????

I WANT A SHORT ANSWER, NOT A STORY.
Anonymous Coward
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11/12/2007 10:04 PM
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Re: Who are the Two Witnesses?
Me and a dog named Blue?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 269684


Me you and a Dog named blue;
Who would understand a clue;

Stories and tales spun in truth;
Keys and locks we must sleuth;

Days of bright once turned black;
Tombs and gifts adorned in stack;

Dig within they dug deep;
Secrets and records time did keep;
-Phoenix
mountian gate
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11/12/2007 10:08 PM
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Re: Who are the Two Witnesses?
SO NOW....WHO ARE THE TWO WITNESS???????????

I WANT A SHORT ANSWER, NOT A STORY.
 Quoting: akkiko
they take pictures of the fallen at the top of the mountian in the sky also the bar as it rises up it goes off in a set of wavy lines as in all ancient egypt.i have seen this i am a witness,lights on sunglasses
Scott Hofstee (OP)

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11/12/2007 10:11 PM
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Re: Who are the Two Witnesses?
SO NOW....WHO ARE THE TWO WITNESS???????????

I WANT A SHORT ANSWER, NOT A STORY.
 Quoting: akkiko



They are the two anointed cherubim Michael and Gabriel depicted on the ark of the covenant. They were constructed out of olive trees and were obviously standing before the Lord of the whole earth. That would be the cliff notes version...
To visit our website or message board, [link to thedaysofthunder.com]
mountian gate
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11/12/2007 10:13 PM
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Re: Who are the Two Witnesses?
Me and a dog named Blue?


Me you and a Dog named blue;
Who would understand a clue;

Stories and tales spun in truth;
Keys and locks we must sleuth;

Days of bright once turned black;
Tombs and gifts adorned in stack;

Dig within they dug deep;
Secrets and records time did keep;
-Phoenix

 Quoting: Phoenix 2012
the dogs i seen have the same cut and wound 5 years ago as if it was just yesterday,they stay on the outskirts of the mountian,i still havent figured out how they get 3 hours away from were i left them.
Anonymous Coward
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11/12/2007 10:14 PM
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Re: Who are the Two Witnesses?
SO NOW....WHO ARE THE TWO WITNESS???????????

I WANT A SHORT ANSWER, NOT A STORY.



They are the two anointed cherubim Michael and Gabriel depicted on the ark of the covenant. They were constructed out of olive trees and were obviously standing before the Lord of the whole earth. That would be the cliff notes version...
 Quoting: Scott Hofstee


Hi Scott, any thoughts on the purpose of the two witnesses other than the norm? and still stay within a textual parameter scripture?
BB.

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11/12/2007 10:16 PM
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Re: Who are the Two Witnesses?
[link to www.spindleworks.com]

But we must now turn to the fourth verse of the chapter, for there, evidently, we have the key to the entire explanation. There we read: "These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth." The plain reference here is to Zechariah 4. For there we read in the fourteenth verse, in answer to the question of the prophet concerning the identity of the two olive trees: "These are the two anointed ones, that stand by the Lord of the whole earth." Here, therefore, is the key. The two witnesses are the two olive trees and also the candlesticks there mentioned, so the text tells us. Hence, the answer to the question as to who are the two olive trees and the candlesticks in

Zechariah 4 is at the same time the correct answer to the question who are meant by the two witnesses.

Zechariah the prophet receives a vision. He beholds in the vision a candlestick with seven lamps. Above the candlestick he sees a golden bowl, or reservoir, filled with oil. This bowl of oil above the candlestick is connected with the lamps by means of seven pipes, through which they are supplied with oil from the bowl in order to give light. He beholds, further, on each side of the bowl an olive tree. These olive trees are again connected with the bowl above the candlestick, so that from them the oil continually pours into the bowl, and from the bowl into the lamps. That is the vision: a candlestick receiving its oil from a bowl above it, which in turn receives its oil from the two olive trees.


Their Identity


What is the meaning of this vision? Also that is given in the chapter.

The general meaning is a message to Zerubbabel: "Not by might, nor by power, but by my Spirit, saith the Lord." After the captivity Zerubbabel must be instrumental in the rebuilding of the temple. But in this work he meets with opposition from the imperial or world power. He can make no headway. And now this vision tends to instruct Zerubbabel that by the Spirit of the Lord the opposition of the world power shall be brought to nought, the temple rebuilt, and the kingdom of God restored. Still more in general, the meaning of the vision is that although the Lord employs human instruments, nevertheless the completion of His kingdom is not the work of human hands, but of His own Spirit. If the candlesticks are to give light, the bowl and the olive trees and the pipes are necessary indeed; but what would they be without the oil? And so it is with the church and the kingdom of God. The church as such and the servants of the Lord and the means of grace are all necessary. But what would they be without the Holy Spirit? They could not shed light of their testimony in the church and the world.

But now we must still further ask the question: what is the meaning of the details of the vision? What is meant by the candlestick, and what by the olive trees?

We need not be left in the dark as to the answer to this question. The candlestick in the temple and tabernacle was symbolic of the people of God as shining, with their knowledge of God and their testimony, in the midst of a world of darkness. That was Israel of the old dispensation. And so in the new dispensation it is symbolic of the church of Christ letting its light shine in the midst of the world of darkness and unbelief. The church is a light, a testimony of the truth of God. That this is true is clearly proved by the first chapter of this Book of Revelation, where the seven golden candlesticks are the seven churches.

But who are the two olive trees? In Zechariah 4:14 we read that they were the two anointed ones, standing before the Lord of the whole earth. From this we learn, in the first place, that they are servants of God. They stand before the Lord of the whole earth. They are, therefore, ready to serve. And that they stand before the Lord of the whole earth also implies that they are especially the ones who are ready to serve the Lord before the whole world with their testimony in word and deed. But, in the second place, we learn that they are anointed servants of the Lord. They are therefore officially called and ordained for service. They are divine media through which the people of God receive the blessings of God's grace, especially the blessing of the knowledge of God, so that they may let their light shine. In the Old Testament there were but two who were thus officially anointed to be servants in the theocracy, namely, the king and the priest. And there is for that reason no question among interpreters generally but that by the two olive trees, in the first place, Zerubbabel the prince and Joshua the high priest are meant. But, in the second place, a general reference is made to the royal and priestly office in Israel. And in the words of our text, therefore, the olive trees are evidently none other but the divinely ordained and called true ministers of the Word, who must serve as media to supply the church with light.

If in this light we turn once more to the words of our text, the whole is convincingly clear. The two witnesses, as our text has it, are not only the two olive trees of Zechariah 4; nor are they only the two candlesticks; but they are both. John identifies them. The olive trees and the candlesticks cannot be separated. They belong together, and together they are the two witnesses of Christ in the world. That John speaks of the two witnesses is also plain. It is not because two individuals are meant, but it is simply because the entire reference of the text is to the two witnesses of Zechariah 4. And the Lord means to say: "Just as in the Old Testament I had two witnesses, just as then I had my people as a shining light and testimony in the world in my people Israel and the servants I appointed over them, so also in the new dispensation, during the forty-two months that the false church and the show church shall exist and defile the sanctuary, I shall have my two witnesses who shall bear testimony before all the world." The candlesticks and the olive trees in Zechariah 4 are none other than the people of God as lights shining in the world together with the divinely anointed and appointed servants of God. So also in our portion we conclude, on the basis of Scripture, that the candlesticks and the olive trees together are the church of Christ throughout this dispensation, together with the divinely ordained servants of the Word, the true ministers of the gospel, who must serve the Lord as media to supply the congregation with light.

If we understand this, the whole is rather clear. We have in the words of our text, in the first place, again a word of comfort and warning. A word of warning: for not all is Israel that is called Israel, and not all is Christendom that calls itself by that name. On the contrary, by far the widest area is left out when God's people are measured. There is a large mass of so-called Christians who laugh at the truths of Christianity and of Scripture, who renounce the Christ, and who crucify Him anew. In the second place, there are in the visible church proper the hypocrites, scattered and hidden among the true people of God, - dangerous people, who really belong to the enemy, who shall ultimately openly unite with the power of the Antichrist, but who cannot be detected. And the question might well be asked by God's people: but is not the whole cause of God a lost cause? If that is the condition of the church, shall there be a true church in the future? Who shall stand? And our text gives us the assurance that throughout this dispensation the two witnesses shall stand. The church shall let its light shine in the midst of the world and in the midst of the apostate church. The Lord shall keep His church even to the end of the world as a shining light. Still more. Not only the candlestick, but also the two olive trees shall remain. The Lord shall not leave His church without its faithful servants. These faithful servants, in the first place, shall instruct the congregation in the full truth of the Word and thus shall serve as media to supply the congregation with the oil of knowledge necessary to let their light shine. But, in the second place, it shall be especially through them that the church shall testify. The church and the servants of God belong together. The servants are the mouthpiece of the church. They shall above all testify and witness in the midst of the world and in the midst of the apostate church. They shall testify against the wickedness of that apostate Christendom and testify for the name of Christ, testify also against the hypocrisy of the hypocrites and the false church.

This condition is to develop in extreme features toward the end of the world. Apostasy shall increase. Jerusalem shall turn once more wicked. False Christianity shall become more openly false. Days of persecution shall arise. The show church shall unite itself with the false church in the days of persecution. But still the candlestick shall shine. Many shall fall away, according to the words of our Lord. Many also of the servants of God shall become unfaithful. But always Christ shall have the two witnesses, His church and His servants,-yea, to the end of the world. And the more the lines are sharply drawn and the greater the apostasy becomes and the more clearly Antichrist develops, the louder and the more clearly and the more definitely the testimony of the faithful church, with its faithful ministers, shall resound throughout the world.

If we bear this in mind, we shall also understand that there have been many types in history of these two witnesses. Types of these were men like Enoch and Noah and Moses and Elijah. Types of these also were Zerubbabel and Joshua. And types of these were the martyrs of the early church, as well as of the church of the Reformation together with the faithful servants of their time. Huss and Wyclif and Luther and Calvin represent these faithful witnesses. Types of these witnesses at the final stage of history are the churches and the servants who sound the trumpet today and who will know of nothing but Christ and Him crucified. And through them all we have the realization of the comfort expressed in our portion: "I will give my two witnesses, throughout this dispensation, that they may prophesy. The candlestick shall shine; the olive trees shall supply with oil, all the days of this dispensation, even until the end of the world."

But at the same time we have in our text a word of admonition and calling, a word to the church as such. She must be a witness of Christ. She must let her light shine boldly, fearlessly, testifying against the apostasy of the age with all her might and main. Not according to the imagination of man, but according to the light of the Word of God must she live and speak. Regardless of what the world may say, we must witness. Regardless how beautiful the world may look and however sweet the world may speak of Christ and Christianity, the great question that must always again be asked: do you believe in Christ, the Son of the living God, in the blood of atonement and the redemptive value of the blood of Christ Jesus? If not, the world stands condemned by our testimony. For it, and it alone, is the truth. In the second place, a word of admonition is in order with regard to the relation of the church to its ministers. They are the olive trees. They must enlighten the minds of the congregation with the light of God. The congregation must receive this light. Do not be satisfied with a little siren-song of gospel that cannot establish you in the faith, but be eager to receive the whole Word of God. For you will need its full, abundant light. And, in the third place, a word of warning and admonition to the servants of God in the church: they are the olive trees. They must bring the light of the Word and nothing else. They, first of all and above all, must stand and be faithful. They shall have a hard time in the day of judgment if it should be proved that they have given the congregation stones for bread and serpents for eggs. Many have been the false prophets of all times. Many are the false prophets today. Fearful wrath and condemnation, no doubt, there will be in store for those who have pretended to preach the truth of God and have filled the pipes of the bowl with the darkness of hell.
mountian gate
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11/12/2007 10:17 PM
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Re: Who are the Two Witnesses?
SO NOW....WHO ARE THE TWO WITNESS???????????

I WANT A SHORT ANSWER, NOT A STORY.



They are the two anointed cherubim Michael and Gabriel depicted on the ark of the covenant. They were constructed out of olive trees and were obviously standing before the Lord of the whole earth. That would be the cliff notes version...


Hi Scott, any thoughts on the purpose of the two witnesses other than the norm? and still stay within a textual parameter scripture?
 Quoting: Phoenix 2012
what is a cliff note version?
akkiko

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Philippines
11/12/2007 10:18 PM
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Re: Who are the Two Witnesses?
You mean the two witness is made from wood? and do not have life?
Anonymous Coward
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11/12/2007 10:20 PM
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Re: Who are the Two Witnesses?
SO NOW....WHO ARE THE TWO WITNESS???????????

I WANT A SHORT ANSWER, NOT A STORY.



They are the two anointed cherubim Michael and Gabriel depicted on the ark of the covenant. They were constructed out of olive trees and were obviously standing before the Lord of the whole earth. That would be the cliff notes version...


Hi Scott, any thoughts on the purpose of the two witnesses other than the norm? and still stay within a textual parameter scripture?
what is a cliff note version?
 Quoting: mountian gate 323127


A short version in a nutshell.
Scott Hofstee (OP)

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11/12/2007 10:25 PM
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Re: Who are the Two Witnesses?
They are the two anointed cherubim Michael and Gabriel depicted on the ark of the covenant. They were constructed out of olive trees and were obviously standing before the Lord of the whole earth. That would be the cliff notes version...


Hi Scott, any thoughts on the purpose of the two witnesses other than the norm? and still stay within a textual parameter scripture?
 Quoting: Phoenix 2012


In reality they are here to testify of what is about happen, bear witness and make straight the way of the Lord leading up the His appearing to all along with the 144,000 governmental sons of God that are about to appear as well.
To visit our website or message board, [link to thedaysofthunder.com]
Anonymous Coward
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11/12/2007 10:28 PM
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Re: Who are the Two Witnesses?
Itchy and Scratchy.
Scott Hofstee (OP)

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11/12/2007 10:29 PM
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Re: Who are the Two Witnesses?
You mean the two witness is made from wood? and do not have life?
 Quoting: akkiko


no the two anointed cherubim that were constructed on the ark of the covenant. were constructed of olive trees and wrapped in gold. This was symbolic of their place in the Kingdom and in the coming government of God that is to appear in the earth in the last days.
To visit our website or message board, [link to thedaysofthunder.com]

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