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Who are the Two Witnesses?

 
Anonymous Coward
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11/12/2007 10:30 PM
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Re: Who are the Two Witnesses?
The old and new testaments, they used to wrap them up in sackcloth and hide them away.
mountian gate
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11/12/2007 10:34 PM
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Re: Who are the Two Witnesses?
[link to www.spindleworks.com]

But we must now turn to the fourth verse of the chapter, for there, evidently, we have the key to the entire explanation. There we read: "These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth." The plain reference here is to Zechariah 4. For there we read in the fourteenth verse, in answer to the question of the prophet concerning the identity of the two olive trees: "These are the two anointed ones, that stand by the Lord of the whole earth." Here, therefore, is the key. The two witnesses are the two olive trees and also the candlesticks there mentioned, so the text tells us. Hence, the answer to the question as to who are the two olive trees and the candlesticks in

Zechariah 4 is at the same time the correct answer to the question who are meant by the two witnesses.

Zechariah the prophet receives a vision. He beholds in the vision a candlestick with seven lamps. Above the candlestick he sees a golden bowl, or reservoir, filled with oil. This bowl of oil above the candlestick is connected with the lamps by means of seven pipes, through which they are supplied with oil from the bowl in order to give light. He beholds, further, on each side of the bowl an olive tree. These olive trees are again connected with the bowl above the candlestick, so that from them the oil continually pours into the bowl, and from the bowl into the lamps. That is the vision: a candlestick receiving its oil from a bowl above it, which in turn receives its oil from the two olive trees.


Their Identity


What is the meaning of this vision? Also that is given in the chapter.

The general meaning is a message to Zerubbabel: "Not by might, nor by power, but by my Spirit, saith the Lord." After the captivity Zerubbabel must be instrumental in the rebuilding of the temple. But in this work he meets with opposition from the imperial or world power. He can make no headway. And now this vision tends to instruct Zerubbabel that by the Spirit of the Lord the opposition of the world power shall be brought to nought, the temple rebuilt, and the kingdom of God restored. Still more in general, the meaning of the vision is that although the Lord employs human instruments, nevertheless the completion of His kingdom is not the work of human hands, but of His own Spirit. If the candlesticks are to give light, the bowl and the olive trees and the pipes are necessary indeed; but what would they be without the oil? And so it is with the church and the kingdom of God. The church as such and the servants of the Lord and the means of grace are all necessary. But what would they be without the Holy Spirit? They could not shed light of their testimony in the church and the world.

But now we must still further ask the question: what is the meaning of the details of the vision? What is meant by the candlestick, and what by the olive trees?

We need not be left in the dark as to the answer to this question. The candlestick in the temple and tabernacle was symbolic of the people of God as shining, with their knowledge of God and their testimony, in the midst of a world of darkness. That was Israel of the old dispensation. And so in the new dispensation it is symbolic of the church of Christ letting its light shine in the midst of the world of darkness and unbelief. The church is a light, a testimony of the truth of God. That this is true is clearly proved by the first chapter of this Book of Revelation, where the seven golden candlesticks are the seven churches.

But who are the two olive trees? In Zechariah 4:14 we read that they were the two anointed ones, standing before the Lord of the whole earth. From this we learn, in the first place, that they are servants of God. They stand before the Lord of the whole earth. They are, therefore, ready to serve. And that they stand before the Lord of the whole earth also implies that they are especially the ones who are ready to serve the Lord before the whole world with their testimony in word and deed. But, in the second place, we learn that they are anointed servants of the Lord. They are therefore officially called and ordained for service. They are divine media through which the people of God receive the blessings of God's grace, especially the blessing of the knowledge of God, so that they may let their light shine. In the Old Testament there were but two who were thus officially anointed to be servants in the theocracy, namely, the king and the priest. And there is for that reason no question among interpreters generally but that by the two olive trees, in the first place, Zerubbabel the prince and Joshua the high priest are meant. But, in the second place, a general reference is made to the royal and priestly office in Israel. And in the words of our text, therefore, the olive trees are evidently none other but the divinely ordained and called true ministers of the Word, who must serve as media to supply the church with light.

If in this light we turn once more to the words of our text, the whole is convincingly clear. The two witnesses, as our text has it, are not only the two olive trees of Zechariah 4; nor are they only the two candlesticks; but they are both. John identifies them. The olive trees and the candlesticks cannot be separated. They belong together, and together they are the two witnesses of Christ in the world. That John speaks of the two witnesses is also plain. It is not because two individuals are meant, but it is simply because the entire reference of the text is to the two witnesses of Zechariah 4. And the Lord means to say: "Just as in the Old Testament I had two witnesses, just as then I had my people as a shining light and testimony in the world in my people Israel and the servants I appointed over them, so also in the new dispensation, during the forty-two months that the false church and the show church shall exist and defile the sanctuary, I shall have my two witnesses who shall bear testimony before all the world." The candlesticks and the olive trees in Zechariah 4 are none other than the people of God as lights shining in the world together with the divinely anointed and appointed servants of God. So also in our portion we conclude, on the basis of Scripture, that the candlesticks and the olive trees together are the church of Christ throughout this dispensation, together with the divinely ordained servants of the Word, the true ministers of the gospel, who must serve the Lord as media to supply the congregation with light.

If we understand this, the whole is rather clear. We have in the words of our text, in the first place, again a word of comfort and warning. A word of warning: for not all is Israel that is called Israel, and not all is Christendom that calls itself by that name. On the contrary, by far the widest area is left out when God's people are measured. There is a large mass of so-called Christians who laugh at the truths of Christianity and of Scripture, who renounce the Christ, and who crucify Him anew. In the second place, there are in the visible church proper the hypocrites, scattered and hidden among the true people of God, - dangerous people, who really belong to the enemy, who shall ultimately openly unite with the power of the Antichrist, but who cannot be detected. And the question might well be asked by God's people: but is not the whole cause of God a lost cause? If that is the condition of the church, shall there be a true church in the future? Who shall stand? And our text gives us the assurance that throughout this dispensation the two witnesses shall stand. The church shall let its light shine in the midst of the world and in the midst of the apostate church. The Lord shall keep His church even to the end of the world as a shining light. Still more. Not only the candlestick, but also the two olive trees shall remain. The Lord shall not leave His church without its faithful servants. These faithful servants, in the first place, shall instruct the congregation in the full truth of the Word and thus shall serve as media to supply the congregation with the oil of knowledge necessary to let their light shine. But, in the second place, it shall be especially through them that the church shall testify. The church and the servants of God belong together. The servants are the mouthpiece of the church. They shall above all testify and witness in the midst of the world and in the midst of the apostate church. They shall testify against the wickedness of that apostate Christendom and testify for the name of Christ, testify also against the hypocrisy of the hypocrites and the false church.

This condition is to develop in extreme features toward the end of the world. Apostasy shall increase. Jerusalem shall turn once more wicked. False Christianity shall become more openly false. Days of persecution shall arise. The show church shall unite itself with the false church in the days of persecution. But still the candlestick shall shine. Many shall fall away, according to the words of our Lord. Many also of the servants of God shall become unfaithful. But always Christ shall have the two witnesses, His church and His servants,-yea, to the end of the world. And the more the lines are sharply drawn and the greater the apostasy becomes and the more clearly Antichrist develops, the louder and the more clearly and the more definitely the testimony of the faithful church, with its faithful ministers, shall resound throughout the world.

If we bear this in mind, we shall also understand that there have been many types in history of these two witnesses. Types of these were men like Enoch and Noah and Moses and Elijah. Types of these also were Zerubbabel and Joshua. And types of these were the martyrs of the early church, as well as of the church of the Reformation together with the faithful servants of their time. Huss and Wyclif and Luther and Calvin represent these faithful witnesses. Types of these witnesses at the final stage of history are the churches and the servants who sound the trumpet today and who will know of nothing but Christ and Him crucified. And through them all we have the realization of the comfort expressed in our portion: "I will give my two witnesses, throughout this dispensation, that they may prophesy. The candlestick shall shine; the olive trees shall supply with oil, all the days of this dispensation, even until the end of the world."

But at the same time we have in our text a word of admonition and calling, a word to the church as such. She must be a witness of Christ. She must let her light shine boldly, fearlessly, testifying against the apostasy of the age with all her might and main. Not according to the imagination of man, but according to the light of the Word of God must she live and speak. Regardless of what the world may say, we must witness. Regardless how beautiful the world may look and however sweet the world may speak of Christ and Christianity, the great question that must always again be asked: do you believe in Christ, the Son of the living God, in the blood of atonement and the redemptive value of the blood of Christ Jesus? If not, the world stands condemned by our testimony. For it, and it alone, is the truth. In the second place, a word of admonition is in order with regard to the relation of the church to its ministers. They are the olive trees. They must enlighten the minds of the congregation with the light of God. The congregation must receive this light. Do not be satisfied with a little siren-song of gospel that cannot establish you in the faith, but be eager to receive the whole Word of God. For you will need its full, abundant light. And, in the third place, a word of warning and admonition to the servants of God in the church: they are the olive trees. They must bring the light of the Word and nothing else. They, first of all and above all, must stand and be faithful. They shall have a hard time in the day of judgment if it should be proved that they have given the congregation stones for bread and serpents for eggs. Many have been the false prophets of all times. Many are the false prophets today. Fearful wrath and condemnation, no doubt, there will be in store for those who have pretended to preach the truth of God and have filled the pipes of the bowl with the darkness of hell.
 Quoting: BB.
i also had a peace pipe from the great suns mound natchez miss,this pipe you cant smoke out of it.and dont think im a saint im just telling you what i seen.i sold my golf clubs to buy this computer to tell you,i do not ask nothing of you.it is in sequence to the maya dec 21 2012,i dont even know if the date of dec 21 2012 is real ,but i do know dec 21 2006 is real.theres a witness taking pictures.
mountian gate
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11/12/2007 10:46 PM
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Re: Who are the Two Witnesses?
They are the two anointed cherubim Michael and Gabriel depicted on the ark of the covenant. They were constructed out of olive trees and were obviously standing before the Lord of the whole earth. That would be the cliff notes version...


Hi Scott, any thoughts on the purpose of the two witnesses other than the norm? and still stay within a textual parameter scripture?


In reality they are here to testify of what is about happen, bear witness and make straight the way of the Lord leading up the His appearing to all along with the 144,000 governmental sons of God that are about to appear as well.
 Quoting: Scott Hofstee
im wondering if the meeting in washington on the ufo has any thing to do with this,my gut says it is.after the light of timming they come back and servy the ground,it apears nasa knows of the triangel of light that has been near after this event.they also know the witnesses with the satilite tracker. it apears these things happen in ten year ink ra ments as in 1991 gulf war as in 2001 twinn towers i mean correct me if im wrong.lights on sunglasses.
Scott Hofstee (OP)

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11/12/2007 10:49 PM
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Re: Who are the Two Witnesses?
The old and new testaments, they used to wrap them up in sackcloth and hide them away.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 324145


wrongo! i like mountain gates explanation better...at least hes put some thought into it.
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Anonymous Coward
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11/12/2007 10:53 PM
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Re: Who are the Two Witnesses?
The old and new testaments, they used to wrap them up in sackcloth and hide them away.


wrongo! i like mountain gates explanation better...at least hes put some thought into it.
 Quoting: Scott Hofstee


lol
Anonymous Coward
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11/12/2007 10:54 PM
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Re: Who are the Two Witnesses?
churchlady

Looks like someone's been studying their Bible!
Anonymous Coward
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11/12/2007 10:58 PM
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Re: Who are the Two Witnesses?
They are the two anointed cherubim Michael and Gabriel depicted on the ark of the covenant. They were constructed out of olive trees and were obviously standing before the Lord of the whole earth. That would be the cliff notes version...


Hi Scott, any thoughts on the purpose of the two witnesses other than the norm? and still stay within a textual parameter scripture?


In reality they are here to testify of what is about happen, bear witness and make straight the way of the Lord leading up the His appearing to all along with the 144,000 governmental sons of God that are about to appear as well.
im wondering if the meeting in washington on the ufo has any thing to do with this,my gut says it is.after the light of timming they come back and servy the ground,it apears nasa knows of the triangel of light that has been near after this event.they also know the witnesses with the satilite tracker. it apears these things happen in ten year ink ra ments as in 1991 gulf war as in 2001 twinn towers i mean correct me if im wrong.lights on sunglasses.
 Quoting: mountian gate 323127


Welcome to the internet Mountain! 2012 is very real imo so is the time you speak of in both reverse and forward context. The triangle of light, the ufo, and the meeting all make sense. It connects to Montauk, Philadelphia experiment. Stolen German technology, time travel and a disaster. and the very reason 2012 exists.

Sacred Geometery, the Ark and the book of life as well.
Steven Ciummo

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11/12/2007 11:03 PM
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Re: Who are the Two Witnesses?
ernie and bert
Scott Hofstee (OP)

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11/12/2007 11:05 PM
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Re: Who are the Two Witnesses?
They are the two anointed cherubim Michael and Gabriel depicted on the ark of the covenant. They were constructed out of olive trees and were obviously standing before the Lord of the whole earth. That would be the cliff notes version...


Hi Scott, any thoughts on the purpose of the two witnesses other than the norm? and still stay within a textual parameter scripture?


In reality they are here to testify of what is about happen, bear witness and make straight the way of the Lord leading up the His appearing to all along with the 144,000 governmental sons of God that are about to appear as well.
im wondering if the meeting in washington on the ufo has any thing to do with this,my gut says it is.after the light of timming they come back and servy the ground,it apears nasa knows of the triangel of light that has been near after this event.they also know the witnesses with the satilite tracker. it apears these things happen in ten year ink ra ments as in 1991 gulf war as in 2001 twinn towers i mean correct me if im wrong.lights on sunglasses.


Welcome to the internet Mountain! 2012 is very real imo so is the time you speak of in both reverse and forward context. The triangle of light, the ufo, and the meeting all make sense. It connects to Montauk, Philadelphia experiment. Stolen German technology, time travel and a disaster. and the very reason 2012 exists.

Sacred Geometery, the Ark and the book of life as well.

 Quoting: Phoenix 2012


Id look more toward fall of 2009
the Feast of Tabernacles
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Scott Hofstee (OP)

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11/12/2007 11:07 PM
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Re: Who are the Two Witnesses?
ernie and bert
 Quoting: Steven Ciummo


i loved those guys as a kid...
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Steven Ciummo

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11/12/2007 11:08 PM
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Re: Who are the Two Witnesses?
I wunder if they're Jews....

Juppets
Anonymous Coward
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11/12/2007 11:11 PM
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Re: Who are the Two Witnesses?
the 2 witnesses are george bush and tony blair
i'll bet you anything
Scott Hofstee (OP)

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11/12/2007 11:11 PM
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Re: Who are the Two Witnesses?
I wunder if they're Jews....

Juppets
 Quoting: Steven Ciummo


what is your definition of a jew
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Anonymous Coward
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11/12/2007 11:12 PM
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Re: Who are the Two Witnesses?
They are the two anointed cherubim Michael and Gabriel depicted on the ark of the covenant. They were constructed out of olive trees and were obviously standing before the Lord of the whole earth. That would be the cliff notes version...


Hi Scott, any thoughts on the purpose of the two witnesses other than the norm? and still stay within a textual parameter scripture?


In reality they are here to testify of what is about happen, bear witness and make straight the way of the Lord leading up the His appearing to all along with the 144,000 governmental sons of God that are about to appear as well.
im wondering if the meeting in washington on the ufo has any thing to do with this,my gut says it is.after the light of timming they come back and servy the ground,it apears nasa knows of the triangel of light that has been near after this event.they also know the witnesses with the satilite tracker. it apears these things happen in ten year ink ra ments as in 1991 gulf war as in 2001 twinn towers i mean correct me if im wrong.lights on sunglasses.


Welcome to the internet Mountain! 2012 is very real imo so is the time you speak of in both reverse and forward context. The triangle of light, the ufo, and the meeting all make sense. It connects to Montauk, Philadelphia experiment. Stolen German technology, time travel and a disaster. and the very reason 2012 exists.

Sacred Geometery, the Ark and the book of life as well.



Id look more toward fall of 2009
the Feast of Tabernacles
 Quoting: Scott Hofstee


Yummy! The fall, and feast of Israel...lol
Steven Ciummo

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11/12/2007 11:13 PM
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Re: Who are the Two Witnesses?
I wunder if they're Jews....

Juppets


what is your definition of a jew
 Quoting: Scott Hofstee



Jerry, Jerome, Jeremiah....

usually got really big honkers...like ernie & bert.
Anonymous Coward
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11/12/2007 11:14 PM
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Re: Who are the Two Witnesses?
the 2 witnesses are george bush and tony blair
i'll bet you anything
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 325632



Not possible. They are both Freemasons who worship Lucifer.

Bush is the number one candidate for the Anti Christ.
Steven Ciummo

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11/12/2007 11:15 PM
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Re: Who are the Two Witnesses?
the 2 witnesses are george bush and tony blair
i'll bet you anything



Not possible. They are both Freemasons who worship Lucifer.

Bush is the number one candidate for the Anti Christ.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 325635


wtf wrong with Lucifer.

He's great!
Scott Hofstee (OP)

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11/12/2007 11:16 PM
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Re: Who are the Two Witnesses?
I wunder if they're Jews....

Juppets


what is your definition of a jew



Jerry, Jerome, Jeremiah....

usually got really big honkers...like ernie & bert.
 Quoting: Steven Ciummo


Then id have to say no...is it a full moon tonight? ;-)
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Scott Hofstee (OP)

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11/12/2007 11:17 PM
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Re: Who are the Two Witnesses?
the 2 witnesses are george bush and tony blair
i'll bet you anything
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 325632

save your money...
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Steven Ciummo

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11/12/2007 11:18 PM
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Re: Who are the Two Witnesses?
no seriously,

I think to 2 witnesses are Jerey Seinfeld and that tall guy with the big nose, who hates black people...whta's his name?
Scott Hofstee (OP)

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11/12/2007 11:19 PM
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Re: Who are the Two Witnesses?
wtf wrong with Lucifer.

He's great!
 Quoting: Steven Ciummo

ill bet hes looking for a date, you available?
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Steven Ciummo

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11/12/2007 11:19 PM
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Re: Who are the Two Witnesses?
wtf wrong with Lucifer.

He's great!

ill bet hes looking for a date, you available?
 Quoting: Scott Hofstee



then I'd be jackin' off.

I'm Him.
Scott Hofstee (OP)

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11/12/2007 11:22 PM
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Re: Who are the Two Witnesses?
wtf wrong with Lucifer.

He's great!

ill bet hes looking for a date, you available?



then I'd be jackin' off.

I'm Him.
 Quoting: Steven Ciummo

you are right...you are a jack off
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Steven Ciummo

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11/12/2007 11:24 PM
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Re: Who are the Two Witnesses?
wtf wrong with Lucifer.

He's great!

ill bet hes looking for a date, you available?



then I'd be jackin' off.

I'm Him.

you are right...you are a jack off
 Quoting: Scott Hofstee



awwwwwww...scotty watty.
don't be so un-Christianlike to poor ol' me.

do you want a hanky?
Scott Hofstee (OP)

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11/12/2007 11:27 PM
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Re: Who are the Two Witnesses?
wtf wrong with Lucifer.

He's great!

ill bet hes looking for a date, you available?



then I'd be jackin' off.

I'm Him.

you are right...you are a jack off



awwwwwww...scotty watty.
don't be so un-Christianlike to poor ol' me.

do you want a hanky?
 Quoting: Steven Ciummo

you get your feelings hurt? you know how christians are supposed to act? this is offically the lowest moment in my life...im getting spiritual counsel from Lucifer on how to be a Christian lol what a moment...
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Steven Ciummo

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11/12/2007 11:29 PM
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Re: Who are the Two Witnesses?
wtf wrong with Lucifer.

He's great!

ill bet hes looking for a date, you available?



then I'd be jackin' off.

I'm Him.

you are right...you are a jack off



awwwwwww...scotty watty.
don't be so un-Christianlike to poor ol' me.

do you want a hanky?

you get your feelings hurt? you know how christians are supposed to act? this is offically the lowest moment in my life...im getting spiritual counsel from Lucifer on how to be a Christian lol what a moment...
 Quoting: Scott Hofstee


comeon now, you know I know the bible better than you do. don't cha?

You can learn a thing or three from ol' Satan.
Scott Hofstee (OP)

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11/12/2007 11:32 PM
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Re: Who are the Two Witnesses?
wtf wrong with Lucifer.

He's great!

ill bet hes looking for a date, you available?



then I'd be jackin' off.

I'm Him.

you are right...you are a jack off



awwwwwww...scotty watty.
don't be so un-Christianlike to poor ol' me.

do you want a hanky?

you get your feelings hurt? you know how christians are supposed to act? this is offically the lowest moment in my life...im getting spiritual counsel from Lucifer on how to be a Christian lol what a moment...


comeon now, you know I know the bible better than you do. don't cha?

You can learn a thing or three from ol' Satan.
 Quoting: Steven Ciummo


oh i know you know it well, you got to know it well in order to pervert it. so hows the family?
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Steven Ciummo

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11/12/2007 11:34 PM
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Re: Who are the Two Witnesses?
well I've been having trouble with this one excerpt in Jeremiah 5 21-22.


It seems like some sort of a riddle....

How can the sands of the sea prevent the mighty waves from passing over it.

Hurricanes, Tsumanis pass over the sand quite frequently.

Any help?
Scott Hofstee (OP)

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11/12/2007 11:37 PM
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Re: Who are the Two Witnesses?
well I've been having trouble with this one excert in Jeremiah 5 21-22.


It seems like some sort of a riddle....

How can the sands of the sea prevent the mighty waves from passing over it.

Hurricanes, Tsumanis pass over the sand quite frequently.

Any help?
 Quoting: Steven Ciummo


no help...you got to figure it out all on your own...then you will be a big devil and no longer a little one. aint that cool?
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Steven Ciummo

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11/12/2007 11:40 PM
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Re: Who are the Two Witnesses?
well I've been having trouble with this one excert in Jeremiah 5 21-22.


It seems like some sort of a riddle....

How can the sands of the sea prevent the mighty waves from passing over it.

Hurricanes, Tsumanis pass over the sand quite frequently.

Any help?


no help...you got to figure it out all on your own...then you will be a big devil and no longer a little one. aint that cool?
 Quoting: Scott Hofstee



But I'm already the biggest devil there can be.

Shucks, you don't wanna play with me...now my feelings are hurt.

p.s. I wuv you, scotty watty

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