I will let James speak for me





1 Whence are wars and fightings among you? not thence--out of your passions, that are as soldiers in your members? 2 ye desire, and ye have not; ye murder, and are zealous, and are not able to attain; ye fight and war, and ye have not, because of your not asking; 3 ye ask, and ye receive not, because evilly ye ask, that in your pleasures ye may spend it . 4 Adulterers and adulteresses! have ye not known that friendship of the world is enmity with God? whoever, then, may counsel to be a friend of the world, an enemy of God he is set. 5 Do ye think that emptily the Writing saith, `To envy earnestly desireth the spirit that did dwell in us,' 6 and greater grace he doth give, wherefore he saith, `God against proud ones doth set Himself up, and to lowly ones He doth give grace?' 7 be subject, then, to God; stand up against the devil, and he will flee from you; 8 draw nigh to God, and He will draw nigh to you; cleanse hands, ye sinners! and purify hearts, ye two-souled! 9 be exceeding afflicted, and mourn, and weep, let your laughter to mourning be turned, and the joy to heaviness; 10 be made low before the Lord, and He shall exalt you.
11 Speak not one against another, brethren; he who is speaking against a brother, and is judging his brother, doth speak against law, and doth judge law, and if law thou dost judge, thou art not a doer of law but a judge; 12 one is the lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy; thou--who art thou that dost judge the other? 13 Go, now, ye who are saying, `To-day and to-morrow we will go on to such a city, and will pass there one year, and traffic, and make gain;' 14 who do not know the thing of the morrow; for what is your life? for it is a vapour that is appearing for a little, and then is vanishing; 15 instead of your saying, `If the Lord may will, we shall live, and do this or that;' 16 and now ye glory in your pride; all such glorying is evil; 17 to him, then, knowing to do good, and not doing, sin it is to him.


On the other side of the coin

19 Brethren, if any among you may go astray from the truth, and any one may turn him back, 20 let him know that he who did turn back a sinner from the straying of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall cover a multitude of sins.


I know that Ireland doesn't respect a lot of the New Testament.

If we are indeed perfect or the ancient Israelites for that matter why would we need any sort of atonement? Scapegoats, lambs, etc. Fact is, if you violate any of the Law you are guilty of violating it all. Hence the need for the Ultimate Atonement.There is no one here that is blameless, not one of us. The Lord will listen to a criminal who is truly sorry before He will a pompous buffoon telling everyone how righteous he is.

Baptism by fire has been debated for ages and I'm sure it will until the Lord Jesus comes. I personally believe in both, but then there is that thief on the cross that was taken to Paradise.

Speaking of the Law, Mike I have misgivings about getting too much into numbers. You know what it says in Deut 18 about divining. If you're not, I guess it's cool then brother.

I do appreciate the passion of PJ and Ireland and Chip too. I recommend to you all be careful and kind to one another. When it goes down we will have to support one another (should be anyways). You can respect another's opinion without agreeing. I don't agree with some of it here, but if it is of God it will bear itself out.


Now let me get a little fastidious. How about that Virgin Mary, Ireland? C'mon I know you're Catholic or something close anyway.


anyway it's waaayyy past my bedtime,

May the Heavenly Father bless you all
and you too Rocky Mountain Lady