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LDS Church President B. Hinkley is Dead

 
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 304696
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01/29/2008 12:12 AM
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Re: LDS Church President B. Hinkley is Dead
Dunno about yours, lady, but my old D&C still has a section 132 wherein God announces the "new and E V E R L A S T I N G covenant" of plural marriage.

Doesn't matter what Wilford Woodruff or Warren Jeffs have to say about it. Joseph Smith himself revealed the principle, and it's still there for all the world to see, in the Mormon church's official canonized scriptures.

Period.
 Quoting: Ahim-sa


Who revealed the Articles of Faith, that require a Mormon to obey the law? IE, anti-polygamy laws.
GrannyBarb

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01/29/2008 12:15 AM
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Re: LDS Church President B. Hinkley is Dead
Yes, plural marriage was revealed by Joseph Smith. I never said it wasn't. I did say that members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints do not practice plural marriage today. I also said that any group calling themselves "Mormon" and practicing plural marriage is not of our church. It is not President Hinckley's church. I used that to try to make the comparison clearer for you. Sheesh! There are none so blind as those who will not see!

I find it interesting whenever I get someone who is very aggressively against our church. They never want to "discuss" only argue. I know that none of you care, but we call that the Spirit of Contention, and it does not come from God.

Nothing I will be able to say will ever convince you of anything. I am not trying to convert you. I thought perhaps you might want to try to "understand" why we say and do the things we do, and I thought you might appreciate knowing that we do not practice polygamy. I could sit here and tell you why we believe the way we do about these things, but I know you could care less. Really, you could care less about the truth. And I'm ok with that.

So, I will only say that I am tired. I'm an old lady, truly I am, and I can also say I am sad to read some of the comments some of you felt necessary to inflict on an old lady. I do hope that people are kinder to "your" mothers than you have been to me.
GrannyBarb

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01/29/2008 12:17 AM
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Re: LDS Church President B. Hinkley is Dead
"What about your use of percentages to justify illegal behavior?"

I researched for myself how many people in the early church practiced polygamy. And not with church materials. Did you?
Ahim-sa

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01/29/2008 12:18 AM
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Re: LDS Church President B. Hinkley is Dead
Who revealed the Articles of Faith, that require a Mormon to obey the law? IE, anti-polygamy laws.
 Quoting: King Neptune

Articles of Faith were never issued as commandments or even doctrine; they were Smith's response to a journalist's inquiry as to what the church believed.
shift
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Anonymous Coward
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01/29/2008 12:18 AM
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Re: LDS Church President B. Hinkley is Dead
"What about your use of percentages to justify illegal behavior?"

I researched for myself how many people in the early church practiced polygamy. And not with church materials. Did you?
 Quoting: GrannyBarb



You know I don't even want to hear from you. If you aren't going to answer my questions with cut-and-dried logic, without using percentages to justify illegal behavior like polygamy, and give me straight honest answers, then you can fuck off.

Seriously. I don't appreciate it when people try to deceive me.

I don't fucking like you.

Tell it to me straight without manipulating numbers like 10% to try and justify what they did as being correct, or I will tell you to go fuck yourself, and your manipulations.

You are not trying to educate me, you are simply trying to piss me off, and when people manipulate me, or try to as in your case, I get fucking irritated.
GrannyBarb

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01/29/2008 12:20 AM
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Re: LDS Church President B. Hinkley is Dead
I'm ready for bed, but will answer a couple of questions for you Neptune, if you can ask them without the cursing. Just ask me a question. One question. And I will see what I can do to answer. I am too tired to try to cut and paste several questions and answers.
GrannyBarb

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01/29/2008 12:21 AM
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Re: LDS Church President B. Hinkley is Dead
You don't like me? Why on Earth not? I'm just a little old lady sitting in my parlor typing on my computer. I have done nothing to you. Why are you so hostile towards me????
Anonymous Coward
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01/29/2008 12:22 AM
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Re: LDS Church President B. Hinkley is Dead
I'm ready for bed, but will answer a couple of questions for you Neptune, if you can ask them without the cursing. Just ask me a question. One question. And I will see what I can do to answer. I am too tired to try to cut and paste several questions and answers.
 Quoting: GrannyBarb



Maybe if you weren't trying to justify illegal behavior by using percentages I wouldn't be so angry with you that I'm cussing.

I have asked for honest answers, and you are giving me manipulation. I don't respond well to that at all.

Personally, I hope I never meet you again.
GrannyBarb

User ID: 92956
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01/29/2008 12:25 AM
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Re: LDS Church President B. Hinkley is Dead
I'm not trying to justify illegal behavior with percentages. I researched polygamy in the early church because I wanted to know more about it. I wanted to try to understand why such a thing existed in the first place. By telling you only 10% of the church ever practiced it, I was not lying to you, I was not trying to deceive you with percentages, I was trying to communicate to you what I had discovered. I was trying to have a communication with you. I was trying to pass on a fact I had discovered through my own studies.
Anonymous Coward
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01/29/2008 12:25 AM
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Re: LDS Church President B. Hinkley is Dead
I'm not trying to justify illegal behavior with percentages.
 Quoting: GrannyBarb


Yes, you were, goodbye, fuck you.
Anonymous Coward
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01/29/2008 12:27 AM
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Re: LDS Church President B. Hinkley is Dead
I find it extremely ironic that Granny from Missouri, the state where their governor, governor Boggs signed an extermination order against the LDS church in the 1830s, is defending the LDS church from King Neptune of Provo, Utah, where exists the most solidly LDS population in the world. Man how a century and a half change things. lol

Way to go Granny!
Anonymous Coward
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01/29/2008 12:28 AM
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Re: LDS Church President B. Hinkley is Dead
Actually, Im in North Carolina now. Utah was last year and the year before.
GrannyBarb

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01/29/2008 12:28 AM
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Re: LDS Church President B. Hinkley is Dead
"Personally, I hope I never meet you again."

I'm really sorry you feel that way. I have a LOT of friends who really enjoy my company. I have a good sense of humor, I'm a great cook, I love to read. I have an inquiring mind. And you would not want to me meet me why? Because my opinion or beliefs differ from yours? This seems a little baffling to me. Everyone in the grocery store will have differing opinions from you, yet I would think you wouldn't go around attacking them. Or do you? Perhaps you do.

I would like to meet you! You are rather interesting to me. Your postings come across very angry, and I'm curious to understand why. But then, that's just the way I am.
GrannyBarb

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01/29/2008 12:29 AM
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Re: LDS Church President B. Hinkley is Dead
Yeah, good old Boggs . . . whatever became of him? I looked it up; did you? Interesting story!
Anonymous Coward
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01/29/2008 12:32 AM
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Re: LDS Church President B. Hinkley is Dead
Hey Granny, is it true the Morons have records on everyone ever born and "baptize" them in underground ceremonies without their consent in order to "save" them?
How much money is the Moron church worth?
When they built that Moron Church that looks like OZ near Washington DC, is it true they let non-morons inside to take a look, then tore out the carpets because "infidels" had walked on them, and then replaced them?
GrannyBarb

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01/29/2008 12:32 AM
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Re: LDS Church President B. Hinkley is Dead
"Yes, you were, goodbye, fuck you."

Yep, just like I thought. I gave you the opportunity to ask me a question and all you can do is attack. What gives? I'm trying to be nice and all you can do is cuss me out? Your momma needs to wash your mouth out with soap! Ever have this done? I did when I was really little. Yuck!
Anonymous Coward
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01/29/2008 12:33 AM
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Re: LDS Church President B. Hinkley is Dead
Actually, Im in North Carolina now. Utah was last year and the year before.
 Quoting: King Neptune


Then continue to change your profile. (I notice it now says just Utah) If you are from NC then say it.

It's unbecoming of Kings to deceive, Mr. Neptune.
Spectrum Blue (OP)

User ID: 333587
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01/29/2008 12:33 AM
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Re: LDS Church President B. Hinkley is Dead
This is going no where.

Fact, yes some mormons including Joseph Smith practiced polygamy.

The reason for this (or so I was told) is because male members of the LDS church had joined the military and fought in the wars that were going on at the time. Many had died and left widowed wives. The men of the church who had lived, took it upon themselves to marry them so they could be taken care of.

Late on, however, the church abolished polygamy because the government was starting to crack down on polygamists.

Again, this is what I was told. I don't know if it's true or not, but to me it does make sense.

And I do agree with Neptune about personal attacks in a conversation like this. We are trying to understand eachother and get the other person to understand us. And we are trying to discover the truth of the matter. Personal attacks are a sign of weakness and degrades the discussion as well as your own intelligence.

Just stick to logic and your own understanding of things. There's no need for insult.
Dreams will begin as they fade into chaos.
Anonymous Coward
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01/29/2008 12:34 AM
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Re: LDS Church President B. Hinkley is Dead
Hey Granny, is it true the Morons have records on everyone ever born and "baptize" them in underground ceremonies without their consent in order to "save" them?
How much money is the Moron church worth?
When they built that Moron Church that looks like OZ near Washington DC, is it true they let non-morons inside to take a look, then tore out the carpets because "infidels" had walked on them, and then replaced them?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 349837

Above are 3 questions for you to work on Granny, I hope you can.
Anonymous Coward
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01/29/2008 12:35 AM
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Re: LDS Church President B. Hinkley is Dead
mormonism is a late 1800s sick cult, just like the JWs. coincidence? i think not. there's always someone up for believing it. the question is, why then? what does it mean now? doorways were opened. they'll open again.
GrannyBarb

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01/29/2008 12:40 AM
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Re: LDS Church President B. Hinkley is Dead
"Hey Granny, is it true the Morons have records on everyone ever born and "baptize" them in underground ceremonies without their consent in order to "save" them?"


We believe in doing our geneology. I could spend a good deal of time telling you why, but just suffice it to say that we do geneology. I don't think we have records on everyone ever born, but there is an extensive library in Utah. Salt Lake City, I believe.

We do not have "underground ceremonies." We do what we call "Baptisms for the dead" in the Temples. This is mentioned in Corinthians in the New Testament, if you would want to look it up.

We are not baptized for the living. We do our geneology and are then baptized for our departed relatives. Why do we do this? We believe the Bible says you have to be baptized. What's bound on Earth, etc. We do not know which of our relatives were or weren't baptized, so we "stand in" for them and are baptized on their behalf. This way this part is done for them. We believe they can accept or reject this baptism as they see fit, but it is sort of our "gift" to our ancestors to see to it that this work is done. It makes us feel closer to our relatives.
Ahim-sa

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01/29/2008 12:40 AM
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Re: LDS Church President B. Hinkley is Dead
Yeah, good old Boggs . . . whatever became of him? I looked it up; did you? Interesting story!
 Quoting: GrannyBarb


Orrin Porter Rockwell, Joseph's personal bodyguard and Avenging Angel botched the retaliatory assassination hit on evil old Gov Boggs.

While you're looking stuff up, read up on the ultra-inflamatory Salt Sermon that Sydney Rigdon delivered BEFORE Bogg's infamous extermination order. He was the first to use the term 'extermination' in that very speech.
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GrannyBarb

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01/29/2008 12:41 AM
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Re: LDS Church President B. Hinkley is Dead
"How much money is the Moron church worth?"

I haven't got a clue. I don't think it's anywhere near what the Catholic Church is worth though.
Anonymous Coward
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01/29/2008 12:42 AM
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Re: LDS Church President B. Hinkley is Dead
"Hey Granny, is it true the Morons have records on everyone ever born and "baptize" them in underground ceremonies without their consent in order to "save" them?"


We believe in doing our geneology. I could spend a good deal of time telling you why, but just suffice it to say that we do geneology. I don't think we have records on everyone ever born, but there is an extensive library in Utah. Salt Lake City, I believe.

We do not have "underground ceremonies." We do what we call "Baptisms for the dead" in the Temples. This is mentioned in Corinthians in the New Testament, if you would want to look it up.

We are not baptized for the living. We do our geneology and are then baptized for our departed relatives. Why do we do this? We believe the Bible says you have to be baptized. What's bound on Earth, etc. We do not know which of our relatives were or weren't baptized, so we "stand in" for them and are baptized on their behalf. This way this part is done for them. We believe they can accept or reject this baptism as they see fit, but it is sort of our "gift" to our ancestors to see to it that this work is done. It makes us feel closer to our relatives.
 Quoting: GrannyBarb

OK, thanks, but I heard they also do it for non-mormons, is that true?
Redheaded Stepchild

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01/29/2008 12:43 AM
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Re: LDS Church President B. Hinkley is Dead
I'm not real sure why people are getting in a twist over Mormon polygamy. They ended it, officially, a very long time ago. Those who wish to cite Mormon doctrine and/or Mormon scripture regarding the issue must also pay attention to the fact that the BIBLE still carries passages that are positive about polygamy, slave-holding, incest (as good, not evil), murder...

King Solomon is said to have had 700 wives and 300 concubines (1 Kings 11:3) Bizzy dude!!!

He [the king] must not take many wives, or his heart will be led astray. (Deuteronomy 17:17) ... yep, bizzy dude

In 2 Samuel 5:13; 1 Chronicles 3:1-9, 14:3, King David had six wives and numerous concubines.

In 2 Chronicles 11:21, King Solomon's son Rehoboam had 18 wives and 60 concubines.

In Deuteronomy 21:15 "If a man has two wives, and he loves one but not the other, and both bear him sons...."
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


I don't happen to believe in polygamy. I believe it is detrimental to the family relationship. But I'm not trying to justify it or renounce it. I'm only pointing out that people are silly to attack the scriptures of one religion or another over such an issue. The Mormons do not practice polygamy now. If you expect them to change their scriptures to reflect your PC vision, then you have to change the Old Testament, as well.
"Until you are willing to organize your friends and neighbors and literally shut down cities - drive at 5mph through the streets of major cities on the freeway and stop commerce, refuse to show up for work, refuse to borrow and spend more than you make, show up in Washington DC with a million of your neighbors and literally shut down The Capitol you WILL be bent over the table on a daily basis." Karl Denninger

Don't blame me; I voted for Ron Paul.


Silence is consent.
Spectrum Blue (OP)

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01/29/2008 12:44 AM
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Re: LDS Church President B. Hinkley is Dead
OK, thanks, but I heard they also do it for non-mormons, is that true?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 349837


When they are deceased, yes. But we believe that when they are in heaven, they still have a choice whether to accept the baptism or not.

So we're really not forcing it upon them.

And we don't dig up their dead bodies either. Someone is used as a proxy in place of the deceased.
Dreams will begin as they fade into chaos.
GrannyBarb

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01/29/2008 12:45 AM
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Re: LDS Church President B. Hinkley is Dead
"When they built that Moron Church that looks like OZ near Washington DC, is it true they let non-morons inside to take a look, then tore out the carpets because "infidels" had walked on them, and then replaced them?"

I'm not sure which Temple you are talking about. I have been to the Washington DC Temple, but I don't think it looks like OZ.

They allow the public into the Temples before they are dedicated. Thousands of people can go through to see what they look like. If you have never been I highly recommend it. They are very beautiful on the inside. After the open house, the Temples are closed and cleaned. Thousands of people walking through on a daily basis . . . well, use your imagination. Carpets usually have to be cleaned, but they are not taken out because "infidels" have walked on them. Geez. Things are cleaned, then the Temple is dedicated to the Lord, then only members with Temple Recommends are allowed inside after they are dedicated.
GrannyBarb

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01/29/2008 12:48 AM
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Re: LDS Church President B. Hinkley is Dead
"While you're looking stuff up, read up on the ultra-inflamatory Salt Sermon that Sydney Rigdon delivered BEFORE Bogg's infamous extermination order. He was the first to use the term 'extermination' in that very speech."

Never heard of this. Thanks for the tip.

Orrin Porter Rockwell was a cool dude, I think.
Spectrum Blue (OP)

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01/29/2008 12:49 AM
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Re: LDS Church President B. Hinkley is Dead
I'm not real sure why people are getting in a twist over Mormon polygamy. They ended it, officially, a very long time ago. Those who wish to cite Mormon doctrine and/or Mormon scripture regarding the issue must also pay attention to the fact that the BIBLE still carries passages that are positive about polygamy, slave-holding, incest (as good, not evil), murder...

King Solomon is said to have had 700 wives and 300 concubines (1 Kings 11:3) Bizzy dude!!!

He [the king] must not take many wives, or his heart will be led astray. (Deuteronomy 17:17) ... yep, bizzy dude

In 2 Samuel 5:13; 1 Chronicles 3:1-9, 14:3, King David had six wives and numerous concubines.

In 2 Chronicles 11:21, King Solomon's son Rehoboam had 18 wives and 60 concubines.

In Deuteronomy 21:15 "If a man has two wives, and he loves one but not the other, and both bear him sons...."
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


I don't happen to believe in polygamy. I believe it is detrimental to the family relationship. But I'm not trying to justify it or renounce it. I'm only pointing out that people are silly to attack the scriptures of one religion or another over such an issue. The Mormons do not practice polygamy now. If you expect them to change their scriptures to reflect your PC vision, then you have to change the Old Testament, as well.
 Quoting: Redheaded Stepchild



Thank you RedHeaded Stepchild. You are quite level headed, and logical.

I do agree that all christian religions have bloody pasts and unwholesome views in long dead scriptures.
The important thing is how well they've evolved.
Dreams will begin as they fade into chaos.
Anonymous Coward
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01/29/2008 12:50 AM
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Re: LDS Church President B. Hinkley is Dead
Actually, Im in North Carolina now. Utah was last year and the year before.
 Quoting: King Neptune


Then come back, you are always welcome here. You seem to miss it since you wrote this yesterday:

"Winter sucks
Quote

I am so tired of this shit.

At least in Utah, there was skiing."

And it's snowing as I write! white fluffy stuff powdering the mountains with white gold!!!

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