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Famous Early American Atheists, Agnostics and Deists

 
Skeptical Believer
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02/25/2008 04:32 PM
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Famous Early American Atheists, Agnostics and Deists
I would like to dispell the myth that our country's founding fathers were Christians.
Here are a few quotes by some of them:


Abraham Lincoln
"The Bible is not my book nor Christianity my profession. I could never give assent to the long, complicated statements of Christian dogma."

- Abraham Lincoln, American president (1809-1865).



Thomas Jefferson (Deist)
"History I believe furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government. This marks the lowest grade of ignorance, of which their political as well as religious leaders will always avail themselves for their own purpose. " – Thomas Jefferson to Baron von Humboldt, 1813

"The Christian god can easily be pictured as virtually the same god as the many ancient gods of past civilizations. The Christian god is a three headed monster; cruel, vengeful and capricious. If one wishes to know more of this raging, three headed beast-like god, one only needs to look at the caliber of people who say they serve him. They are always of two classes: fools and hypocrites."

"Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity." –Thomas Jefferson, Notes on Virginia, 1782.

"And the day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerve in the brain of Jupiter. But may we hope that the dawn of reason and freedom of thought in these United States will do away with this artificial scaffolding, and restore to us the primitive and genuine doctrines of this most venerated reformer of human errors." –Thomas Jefferson, Letter to John Adams, April 11, 1823

"Religions are all alike – founded upon fables and mythologies."

"I do not find in orthodox Christianity one redeeming feature."

"Christianity is the most perverted system that ever shone on man."

"It does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are 20 gods, or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg."

- Thomas Jefferson, U.S. President, author, scientist, architect, educator, and diplomat







Benjamin Franklin
"I have found Christian dogma unintelligible. Early in life, I absenteed myself from Christian assemblies."

"Lighthouses are more helpful then churches."

-Benjamin Franklin, American Founding Father, author, and inventor






James Madison, American president and political theorist (1751-1836).
"During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What has been its fruits? More or less, in all places, pride and indolence in the clergy; ignorance and servility in the laity; in both, Famous Atheist & Quotessuperstition, bigotry, and persecution."
"In no instance have . . . the churches been guardians of the liberties of the people."
"Religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprise."

"What influence in fact have Christian ecclesiastical establishments had on civil society? In many instances they have been upholding the thrones of political tyranny. In no instance have they been seen as the guardians of the liberties of the people. Rulers who wished to subvert the public liberty have found in the clergy convenient auxiliaries. A just government, instituted to secure and perpetuate liberty, does not need the clergy."

in Freedom Writer magazine, March 1989]




William Howard Taft

"I do not believe in the divinity of Christ, and there are many other of the postulates of the orthodox creed to which I cannot subscribe."

- William Howard Taft, U.S. President




Thomas Paine (Deist?) – Author of "Common Sense"


"The most formidable weapon against errors of every kind is reason. I have never used any other, and I trust I never shall."

"Revelation is a communication of something which the person to whom the thing id revealed did not know before. For if I have done, a thing, or seen it done, it needs no Revelation to tell me, I have done or seen it done nor enable me to tell it or write it. Revelation therefore cannot be applied to anything done upon earth, of which man is himself actor or witness and consequently all the historical part of the Bible which is almost the whole of it, is not within the meaning and compass of the word Revelation and therefore is not the Word of God."-- Thomas Paine The Age of Reason

"Whenever we read the obscene stories, the voluptuous debaucheries, the cruel and tortuous executions, the unrelenting vindictiveness with which more than half the Bible is filled, it would be more consistent that we call it the word of a demon than the word of God. It is a history of wickedness that has served to corrupt and brutalize mankind." From - The Age of Reason

"All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit. "

Labeled an atheist, but actually a deist, raised by Quakers, who was extremely critical of organized religion. According to Carl Sagan in The Demon Haunted World, "later generations reviled him for his social and religious views. Theodore Roosevelt called him a 'filthy little atheist.' . . . He is probably the most illustrious American Revolutionary uncommemorated by a monument in Washington, D.C."
The Age of Reason also attacks Christianity as a system of superstition that "produces fanatics" and "serves the purposes of despotism." When the book reached England, several sellers were convicted of blasphemy and jailed.
"Persecution is not an original feature in any religion; but it is always the strongly marked feature of all religions established by law."

- Thomas Paine, English born American author and revolutionary leader (1737-1809).We only hear what we want to believe.
Here in this hopeless fucking hole we call LA
Some say the end is near.
Some say we'll see armageddon soon.
I certainly hope we will.
I sure could use a vacation from this
Bullshit three ring circus sideshow of
Freaks.
Anonymous Coward
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02/25/2008 04:33 PM
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Re: Famous Early American Atheists, Agnostics and Deists
Lies, lies, LIES!

ALL the Founding Fathers were RABID FUNDAMENTALIST CHRISTIANS!

screamrofl
Skeptical Believer (OP)

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02/25/2008 04:37 PM
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Re: Famous Early American Atheists, Agnostics and Deists
Lies, lies, LIES!

ALL the Founding Fathers were RABID FUNDAMENTALIST CHRISTIANS!

screamrofl
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 132975


Yeah that's what we're taught to believe but if you read the history books carefully, it isn't true.

I pisses me off when I hear people say "we're a christian nation."

They just use this as a tool to benefit there own agenda.
Here in this hopeless fucking hole we call LA
Some say the end is near.
Some say we'll see armageddon soon.
I certainly hope we will.
I sure could use a vacation from this
Bullshit three ring circus sideshow of
Freaks.
TexasT

User ID: 208999
United States
02/25/2008 04:43 PM
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Re: Famous Early American Atheists, Agnostics and Deists
Lies, lies, LIES!

ALL the Founding Fathers were RABID FUNDAMENTALIST CHRISTIANS!

screamrofl
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 132975

It's true! Jefferson was a conservative pentecostal and Washington was an Assembly of God snake handler!

And Alexander Hamilton was a liberal who got killed by Aaron Burr (or maybe God) because he was a non-god-fearing librul. I was actually told this yesterday by a poster who shall remain nameless, although still teh stupid.
Gradient

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02/25/2008 04:46 PM

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Re: Famous Early American Atheists, Agnostics and Deists
Hey look! I can cut and paste too!~

Benjamin Franklin

have lived, Sir, a long time, and the longer I live, the more convincing proofs I see of this truth--that God governs in the affairs of men... If a sparrow cannot fall to the ground unseen by him, is it probable an empire could arise without his aid? I firmly believe this, and I also believe that without his concurring aid we shall succeed in this political building not better than the builders of Babel.




Alexander Hamilton

In my opinion, the present consitution is the standard to which we are to cling. Under its banner bona fide must we combat our political foes, rejecting all changes but through the channel itself provided for amendments. By these general views of the subject have my reflections been guided. I now offer you the outline of the plan they have suggested. Let an association be formed to be denominated "The Christian Constitutional Society," its object to be first: The support of the Christian religion. second: The support of the United States.


Patrick Henry

"It cannot be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great nation was founded, not by religionists, but by Christians; not on religions but on the gospel of Jesus Christ!" It's not found anywhere in his recorded writings or speeches.



John Jay

I have long been of opinion that the evidence of the truth of Christianity requires only to be carefully examined to produce conviction in candid minds. .




Thomas Jefferson

I, too, have made a wee-little book from the same materials, which I call the Philosophy of Jesus; it is a paradigma of his doctrines, made by cutting the texts out of the book, and arranging them on the pages of a blank book, in a certain order of time or subject. A more beautiful or precious morsel of ethics I have never seen; it is a document in proof that I am a real Christian, that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus.



George Washington


Daily Sacrifice. It was found in April 1891 among a collection of Washington's papers in his confirmed handwriting when he was about the age of twenty. In it he prays:

Bless my family, kindred, friends and country, be our God & guide this day and for ever for his sake, who lay down in the Grave and arose again for us, Jesus Christ our Lord, Amen.
:coexistt:


glptrainer(at)yahoo.com
Anonymous Coward
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02/25/2008 04:47 PM
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Re: Famous Early American Atheists, Agnostics and Deists
Lies, lies, LIES!

ALL the Founding Fathers were RABID FUNDAMENTALIST CHRISTIANS!

screamrofl


Yeah that's what we're taught to believe but if you read the history books carefully, it isn't true.

I pisses me off when I hear people say "we're a christian nation."

They just use this as a tool to benefit there own agenda.
 Quoting: Skeptical Believer


We(Old America)as a collective, had the fear of "God" instilled in our consciousness. While you pick out a few dubious examples for you argument, the overwhelming majority of America was Christian.
The mindset shift began in the 60's and America succumbed to the curse of Balaam.
The sad thing is that young folk today believe the shit fed to them, and I see you are a product of this indoctrination. What makes me mad is punks like you are the first to blame Christians for the problems today, when in reality it is the failure of humanistic ideals that have us in peril.
TexasT

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02/25/2008 04:49 PM
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Re: Famous Early American Atheists, Agnostics and Deists
Lies, lies, LIES!

ALL the Founding Fathers were RABID FUNDAMENTALIST CHRISTIANS!

screamrofl


Yeah that's what we're taught to believe but if you read the history books carefully, it isn't true.

I pisses me off when I hear people say "we're a christian nation."

They just use this as a tool to benefit there own agenda.
 Quoting: Skeptical Believer

Here's the deal. They try mighty hard to re-write the history books. Why do you think the fundies want to get rid of public education?

We must remain ever vigilant against their attempts to create a theocracy because they will stop at nothing.
TexasT

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02/25/2008 04:52 PM
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Re: Famous Early American Atheists, Agnostics and Deists
Back at ya:

James Madison

"What influence, in fact, have ecclesiastical establishments had on society? In some instances they have been seen to erect a spiritual tyranny on the ruins of the civil authority; on many instances they have been seen upholding the thrones of political tyranny; in no instance have they been the guardians of the liberties of the people. Rulers who wish to subvert the public liberty may have found an established clergy convenient auxiliaries. A just government, instituted to secure and perpetuate it, needs them not." - A Memorial and Remonstrance, 1785

"Experience witnesseth that ecclesiastical establishments, instead of maintaining the purity and efficacy of religion, have had a contrary operation. During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What has been its fruits? More or less, in all places, pride and indolence in the clergy; ignorance and servility in the laity; in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution." - A Memorial and Remonstrance, 1785

John Adams

"As I understand the Christian religion, it was, and is, a revelation. But how has it happened that millions of fables, tales, legends, have been blended with both Jewish and Christian revelation that have made them the most bloody religion that ever existed?" - Dec. 27, 1816

"I almost shudder at the thought of alluding to the most fatal example of the abuses of grief which the history of mankind has preserved--the Cross. Consider what calamities that engine of grief has produced!" - letter to Thomas Jefferson

"What havoc has been made of books through every century of the Christian era? Where are fifty gospels, condemned as spurious by the bull of Pope Gelasius? Where are the forty wagon-loads of Hebrew manuscripts burned in France, by order of another pope, because suspected of heresy? Remember the 'index expurgatorius', the inquisition, the stake, the axe, the halter and the guillotine." - letter to John Taylor

"The priesthood have, in all ancient nations, nearly monopolized learning. And ever since the Reformation, when or where has existed a Protestant or dissenting sect who would tolerate A FREE INQUIRY? The blackest billingsgate, the most ungentlemanly insolence, the most yahooish brutality, is patiently endured, countenanced, propagated, and applauded. But touch a solemn truth in collision with a dogma of a sect, though capable of the clearest proof, and you will find you have disturbed a nest, and the hornets will swarm about your eyes and hand, and fly into your face and eyes." - letter to John Taylor

Thomas Jefferson

"In every country and every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot ... they have perverted the purest religion ever preached to man into mystery and jargon, unintelligible to all mankind, and therefore the safer engine for their purpose." - March 17, 1814

"Is uniformity attainable? Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined, imprisoned; yet we have not advanced an inch towards uniformity. What has been the effect of coercion? To make one half the world fools, and the other half hypocrites. To support roguery and error all over the earth." - from Notes on Virginia

"Shake off all the fears of servile prejudices, under which weak minds are servilely crouched. Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call on her tribunal for every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear." - letter to Peter Carr, Aug. 10, 1787

"It is too late in the day for men of sincerity to pretend they believe in the Platonic mysticisms that three are one, and one is three; and yet that the one is not three, and the three are not one. But this constitutes the craft, the power and the profit of the priests." - to John Adams, 1803

"But a short time elapsed after the death of the great reformer of the Jewish religion, before his principles were departed from by those who professed to be his special servants, and perverted into an engine for enslaving mankind, and aggrandizing their oppressors in Church and State." - letter, 1810

"History I believe furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government. This marks the lowest grade of ignorance, of which their political as well as religious leaders will always avail themselves for their own purpose." - to Baron von Humboldt, 1813

"On the dogmas of religion, as distinguished from moral principles, all mankind, from the beginning of the world to this day, have been quarreling, fighting, burning and torturing one another, for abstractions unintelligible to themselves and to all others, and absolutely beyond the comprehension of the human mind." - to Carey, 1816

"But the greatest of all reformers of the depraved religion of his own country, was Jesus of Nazareth. Abstracting what is really his from the rubbish in which it is buried, easily distinguished by its lustre from the dross of his biographers, and as separable from that as the diamond from the dunghill, we have the outlines of a system of the most sublime morality which has ever fallen from the lips of man. The establishment of the innocent and genuine character of this benevolent morality, and the rescuing it from the imputation of imposture, which has resulted fro artificial systems, invented by ultra-Christian sects (The immaculate conception of Jesus, his deification, the creation of the world by him, his miraculous powers, his resurrection and visible ascension, his corporeal presence in the Eucharist, the Trinity; original sin, atonement, regeneration, election, orders of the Hierarchy, etc.) is a most desirable object." - to W. Short, Oct. 31, 1819

"It is not to be understood that I am with him (Jesus Christ) in all his doctrines. I am a Materialist; he takes the side of Spiritualism; he preaches the efficacy of repentence toward forgiveness of sin; I require a counterpoise of good works to redeem it. Among the sayings and discourses imputed to him by his biographers, I find many passages of fine imagination, correct morality, and of the most lovely benevolence; and others, again, of so much ignorance, so much absurdity, so much untruth, charlatanism and imposture, as to pronounce it impossible that such contradictions should have proceeded from the same being. I separate, therefore, the gold from the dross; restore him to the former, and leave the latter to the stupidity of some, the roguery of others of his disciples. Of this band of dupes and imposters, Paul was the great Coryphaeus, and the first corruptor of the doctrines of Jesus." - to W. Short, 1820

"The office of reformer of the superstitions of a nation, is ever more dangerous. Jesus had to work on the perilous confines of reason and religion; and a step to the right or left might place him within the grasp of the priests of the superstition, a bloodthirsty race, as cruel and remorseless as the being whom they represented as the family God of Abraham, of Isaac and of Jacob, and the local God of Israel. That Jesus did not mean to impose himself on mankind as the son of God, physically speaking, I have been convinced by the writings of men more learned than myself in that lore." - to Story, Aug. 4, 1820

"The doctrines of Jesus are simple, and tend all to the happiness of man. But compare with these the demoralizing dogmas of Calvin. 1. That there are three Gods. 2. That good works, or the love of our neighbor, is nothing. 3. That faith is every thing, and the more incomprehensible the proposition, the more merit the faith. 4. That reason in religion is of unlawful use. 5. That God, from the beginning, elected certain individuals to be saved, and certain others to be damned; and that no crimes of the former can damn them; no virtues of the latter save." - to Benjamin Waterhouse, Jun. 26, 1822

"Creeds have been the bane of the Christian church ... made of Christendom a slaughter-house." - to Benjamin Waterhouse, Jun. 26, 1822

"The truth is, that the greatest enemies of the doctrine of Jesus are those, calling themselves the expositors of them, who have perverted them to the structure of a system of fancy absolutely incomprehensible, and without any foundation in his genuine words. And the day will come, when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the Supreme Being as his father, in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter." - to John Adams, Apr. 11, 1823

"The metaphysical insanities of Athanasius, of Loyola, and of Calvin, are, to my understanding, mere lapses into polytheism, differing from paganism only by being more unintelligible." - to Jared Sparks, 1820

Benjamin Franklin

"I think vital religion has always suffered when orthodoxy is more regarded than virtue. The scriptures assure me that at the last day we shall not be examined on what we thought but what we did." - letter to his father, 1738

"I cannot conceive otherwise than that He, the Infinite Father, expects or requires no worship or praise from us, but that He is even infinitely above it." - from Articles of Belief and Acts of Religion, 1728

"I wish it (Christianity) were more productive of good works ... I mean real good works ... not holy-day keeping, sermon-hearing ... or making long prayers, filled with flatteries and compliments despised by wise men, and much less capable of pleasing the Deity." - Works, Vol. VII, p. 75

"If we look back into history for the character of the present sects in Christianity, we shall find few that have not in their turns been persecutors, and complainers of persecution. The primitive Christians thought persecution extremely wrong in the Pagans, but practiced it on one another. The first Protestants of the Church of England blamed persecution in the Romish Church, but practiced it upon the Puritans. They found it wrong in Bishops, but fell into the practice themselves both here (England) and in New England." - Benjamin Franklin
Anonymous Coward
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Re: Famous Early American Atheists, Agnostics and Deists
I posted the RABID FUNDAMENTALIST CHRISTIAN response.

I hold to no religion whatsoever, and KNOW that there is a wonderful, Supreme Being, which some may choose to call God, if they wish.

We are all Eternal Souls, and we never die.
Anonymous Coward
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02/25/2008 05:03 PM
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Re: Famous Early American Atheists, Agnostics and Deists
Hey look! I can cut and paste too!~

Benjamin Franklin

have lived, Sir, a long time, and the longer I live, the more convincing proofs I see of this truth--that God governs in the affairs of men... If a sparrow cannot fall to the ground unseen by him, is it probable an empire could arise without his aid? I firmly believe this, and I also believe that without his concurring aid we shall succeed in this political building not better than the builders of Babel.

Alexander Hamilton

In my opinion, the present consitution is the standard to which we are to cling. Under its banner bona fide must we combat our political foes, rejecting all changes but through the channel itself provided for amendments. By these general views of the subject have my reflections been guided. I now offer you the outline of the plan they have suggested. Let an association be formed to be denominated "The Christian Constitutional Society," its object to be first: The support of the Christian religion. second: The support of the United States.

Patrick Henry

"It cannot be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great nation was founded, not by religionists, but by Christians; not on religions but on the gospel of Jesus Christ!" It's not found anywhere in his recorded writings or speeches.

John Jay

I have long been of opinion that the evidence of the truth of Christianity requires only to be carefully examined to produce conviction in candid minds. .

Thomas Jefferson

I, too, have made a wee-little book from the same materials, which I call the Philosophy of Jesus; it is a paradigma of his doctrines, made by cutting the texts out of the book, and arranging them on the pages of a blank book, in a certain order of time or subject. A more beautiful or precious morsel of ethics I have never seen; it is a document in proof that I am a real Christian, that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus.

George Washington

Daily Sacrifice. It was found in April 1891 among a collection of Washington's papers in his confirmed handwriting when he was about the age of twenty. In it he prays:

Bless my family, kindred, friends and country, be our God & guide this day and for ever for his sake, who lay down in the Grave and arose again for us, Jesus Christ our Lord, Amen.
 Quoting: Gradient




applause
Solve_et_Coagula

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02/27/2008 07:53 PM
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Re: Famous Early American Atheists, Agnostics and Deists
GOD

There is One who manifests Himself as Love, as Wisdom, and as Truth.

There is One!

And all of Living Nature speaks of this One, of this Great One.

They call Him God, Lord, Father.

It is He who fills everything, all of creation, all worlds, all solar systems, and nevertheless, He is still unrevealed. He cannot reveal Himself completely, even in all eternity. It does not contain all the forms by which He might reveal Himself.

Of Himself, the Absolute, the Unattainable, has no form. He is "nothing" but this "nothing" contains everything within itself.

He limits Himself without becoming limited. He diminishes Himself without being diminished.

He creates and is never exhausted. He reveals Himself in everything but He Himself is not in that which is revealed.

He sustains everything - from within and from without - but He Himself participates in nothing.

We compare Him with Light, Reason - the Logos. But He Himself is neither Light nor Reason.

Light and Reason - these are His manifestations.

God is not present in the world in a material way.

Indeed, when an artist paints a picture, is he in the picture? When a sculptor carves a statue, is he in the statue? The Great Unknown reveals Himself as Light without shadows, as Life without interruption, as Love without change, as Knowledge without errors, Freedom without limitations.

And when we say that God is Love, we understand that Love is one manifestation of God. Therefore, wherever there is Love, wherever there is goodness, which is the fruit of love, there God is revealed.

When we speak of God as Love, we have in mind that Being from whom all life in the universe proceeds and who unites all living souls in one whole without being changed Himself.

There is only one Being in the world who is absolutely good in the true and full meaning of the word and that is God. He is always kind. In His benevolence, God has absolutely no desire to do evil to anyone. If He passes by even the smallest insect, He smiles at it and gives it all the best conditions for life and development.

God judges no one. He restrains no one, He limits no one.

God is most beautiful in that He remembers only the good we have done. The evil He does not remember.

God gives perfect freedom to all beings. Never has He told any being in the universe, no matter how small: "Do this!" or "Serve Me!" He points out the way, but leaves each being free to make his own choice - to do as he thinks best.

Indeed, what does it profit God if we reverence Him and serve Him? Can we give Him knowledge? - No, He knows everything. Can we give Him power? - No, He is all powerful. Everything might pass away, everything might fall apart. He remains unshaken.

The only way in which we can appeal to God is through our helplessness, our misery. When He looks upon us, so small, so miserable, so ignorant, in His greatness there is born a desire to reach out to us and tell us: "Rise up now!"

God's desire is to set us free, to purify us, to enlighten our minds, to ennoble our hearts, to bring into our souls that light by which we come to know that He is Love.

In the heart of God there is something great.

It is He who elevates whole nations as well as separate individuals. All good things come from Him - knowledge, wisdom, truth, freedom. He has elevated all great men. They represent the inspiration of the divine spirit. It is God who wishes to introduce Love, Wisdom, and Truth into the world through these men.

In God's Love, Wisdom and Truth the totality of life throughout eternity is included, as well as the blessing of all souls. Whenever Love, Wisdom and Truth are manifested, the divine Spirit is present among men, and life then is manifested in its real essence.

Man must know that there is only one God and one Love, one Wisdom and one Knowledge, one Truth and one Freedom, one Righteousness and one absolute criterion, one Virtue and one source of good for all.

Except for this criterion there is no other measure of the great reality, and the truly real is only that which belongs to the One, the living God.

However, many people ask: "Does God exist, and if He exists - where is He?"

The entire universe represents the "city of God" where God abides. His consciousness, His mind, is so great that it embraces even the smallest beings and governs their lives.

All angels and all great beings who lived millions of years before us on earth, understand what God is. They stand with holy awe before that great Being from whose heart flows the Love that advances and supports the whole cosmos.

And if you ask them where God is and what He is, they will reply in your own language: "No being is nearer to you than God. No being has a more awakened mind, a more responsive heart, a mightier will. For Him, nothing is impossible. No being is nobler, holier, purer, wiser, mightier, more powerful than God. He is everywhere. He is in heaven - in all the suns, and on earth, behind everything: behind air and water, behind stones and plants, behind animals and man. There is nothing in the world which God does not sustain."

Everything within us and outside us, everything that surrounds us is the background behind which God is hidden as a great artist. He is hidden well because He wants to leave us free.

And because God is so well hidden, men unceasingly search for Him on the surface, and wish to reach Him by external means, to prove His existence.

But God is not a reality that can be proven.

The attempt to prove the existence of God is equivalent to affirming that there is no God. Every proof of the existence of God is a mechanical process.

When a man requires evidence for the existence of God, that shows that he has cut off in his consciousness his connection with Him.

When that connection is restored, life begins to flow unceasingly from God to man, and back from man to God. Then in the mind, in the heart and in the will of man there is a continuous stream of divine consciousness.

Then all those empty and ridiculous questions, whether there is a God, or there is no God, whether God loves us or has forgotten us, are ended.

Our love for God, from which proceeds the living connection between Him and man, is a mystical inner experience which manifests itself in various forms and degrees. The magic power of this experience is hidden in that moment when man directs his mind, his heart, his soul and spirit towards the eternal Beginning, without any hesitation and without any doubt. When this moment arrives, man can accomplish anything. Only then can he understand the meaning of life, because only God can reveal that meaning to him.

Then man will understand that he was born to love God, to imprint his life with that love, and not to be a servant to human conceptions.

Man's soul whispers this softly to him. Because - you must not forget - the only beloved of the human soul is God.

Therefore, I call only him a "man" who has come to love God. The moment in which he is self-determining and loves God, designates him a man. Such a man draws the attention of all good men and they say: "Something divine happened today."

The greatest moment of a man's life is when he comes to love God. That means that he is blossoming and the fragrant aroma will be carried far and wide. It means also that he overflows continuously like a fountain that knows how to give. In this state all reasonable desires of the man can be fulfilled.

Then man becomes truly free. He attains that freedom which Truth brings. And by Truth we mean the link which God established between Himself and us.

There is no other freedom. People of today who have lost almost entirely their link with God, imagine that they can do anything they wish to do: they think that they even have the right to criticize God.

Indeed, no other being has endured greater profanation than God. But He, so to speak, has not even knitted His brows. He looks quiet and peaceful in the radiance of His never changing benevolence.

Only he who lives in that unchangeable, real world where God lives, who serves God and understands His will and His laws, only he is free and only has "free will."

Remember this: The one being who loves us is God. He is one and the same, when we rejoice and when we grieve. In sorrow and in joy, it is God who speaks to us.

Remember also: in order to ask what God is, you must have studied not one but many eternities.

And only after you have acquired all the knowledge of heaven and earth, will you have the right to ask that question. And do you know what answer you will receive? Clearly and simply: "God is Love, which you must experience within yourself."

But before that, while you grope for evidence of the great reality, remember these simple truths: If you ask yourself where God is, know this: wherever there is life, wherever there is thought, wherever there is feeling, there God is.

If you doubt God, you doubt yourself. Because there are no changes or betrayals in God, the reverse cannot be true. There are no exceptions in the Love of God.

Therefore, wherever you go, you may doubt everything, but God - never! Know that He is everywhere, and when you call on Him, He will help you.

When you hear people say that they do not believe in God, observe them attentively and you will find that they consider themselves gods. Do not serve such gods!

Remember also: where there is meaning, God is there. Where there is no meaning, God is absent. And where God is absent, there is "hell."

You might ask: When is man good? At the moment when God manifests Himself in man, he is good. When God is not manifest, man is evil.

When God enters into man, man becomes joyous and ready to perform any service. When man refuses to serve God, God forsakes him.

Do not ask yourself whether God loves you - He has not stopped loving you from the first day to the last - but ask instead whether you love God.

Test your love with the only sure standard: which is stronger within you - your own desires or your love for God? If your love for God is the stronger, you are on the right path. But if your love for God is weaker than your desires, then suffering and misfortune will not cease.

If man has God's love within himself, whatever may happen will turn out for good. If he lacks that love, then his path is long and difficult, and his desires unattainable.

The path toward God is in perfection. The perfect man has only one thought - his advancement toward God! Without perfection God remains incomprehensible for us. By aspiring to perfection, man will come to know God as Love.

Then he will feel the pulse of all living beings on earth. There is no greater bliss for a man than this - to feel this pulse.

Then man will understand the great meaning of these supreme words uttered by Christ: "I live in God and God lives in me."

"I live in God" - this implies that God is "without." "God lives in me" - implies that God is "within" and I, the man, am "without."

Therefore, when God is within you, do not restrict Him. Give Him absolute freedom within you, so that He may also give you absolute freedom within Himself.

"The Devil" is a being which has restricted God within himself, and therefore, God has limited him from outside.

Give absolute freedom to God within you. And then a boundless world will be opened up for you.

Peter Deunov (Beinsa Douno)

[link to www.beinsadouno.org]
Apollo 11

User ID: 381896
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02/27/2008 08:00 PM
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Re: Famous Early American Atheists, Agnostics and Deists
Average citizens of the young America held much the same views. The Great Awakening changed all that and America became a Christian nation after the GA. But no, you're right, it wasn't founded as one.
entropy

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02/27/2008 08:17 PM
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Re: Famous Early American Atheists, Agnostics and Deists
The only ones would criticize this post are the ignorant. Wake THE FUCK UP AMERICA. THIS IS TRUE. Liberty BTW needs no "God".
my re-imaging(cover)
of "Piggies" (The Beatles)
and "Lights in the Sky" (Nine Inch Nails)
is available to listen to now. Won't cost you a dime. Click below to hear it.


[link to www.myspace.com]

Over 1 Million plays, Most popular NIN Remix / Re imaging artist on myspace. I keep it separate:

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archive:
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HardTruth

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02/27/2008 08:25 PM
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Re: Famous Early American Atheists, Agnostics and Deists
Benjamin Franklin, born in Boston. Was one of the diplomats chosen to negotiate peace with Great Britain, and who helped draft the Declaration of Independence, one of the 56 who signed this document, and was instrumental in achieving the adoption of the U.S. Constitution.

Franklin was also a Mason. Franklin was the Grand Master of the Grand Lodge of Pennsylvania and published the first Masonic book in America. Was also a member of Sir Francis Dashwood's Hell Fire Club, along with the Collins family of Satanists. Both Franklin and Thomas Jefferson were members of this purely Satanic group who practiced satanic sexual occult rituals.

References:

(The Illuminati Bloodlines, by Fritz Springmeier)
[link to www.masonicinfo.com]
[link to www.angelfire.com]
[link to mendocinomasons.org]

"Remains of ten bodies at Ben Franklin's home"

Workmen have dug up the remains of ten bodies hidden beneath the former London home of Benjamin Franklin, the founding father of American Independence.
The remains of four adults and six children were discovered during the 31.9 million restoration of Franklin's home at 36 Craven Street, close to Trafalgar Square. Researchers believe that there could be more bodies buried beneath the basement kitchens.
Initial estimates are that the bones are about 200 years old and were buried at the time Franklin was living in the house, which was his home from 1757 to 1762, and from 1764 to 1775. Most of the bones show signs of having been dissected, sawn or cut. One skull has been drilled with several holes. Paul Knapman, the Westminster coroner, said yesterday: "One cannot totally discount the possibility of a crime. There is still a possibility that I may have to hold an inquest."

[link to web.archive.org]



In a 1977 Esquire article, Ron Rosenbaum wrote: "I do seem to have come across definite, if skeletal, links between the origins of Bones rituals and those of the notorious Bavarian Illuminists, (the Illuminati)."



___________
Let the truth be told... though the heavens fall!
Nothing is more dangerous, than trying to give truth to people, who are stuck in their ways...
I am not bound by the laws of original sin..I am one of the other people..
[link to www.paganlibrary.com]
Gradient

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02/27/2008 10:02 PM

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Re: Famous Early American Atheists, Agnostics and Deists
Workmen have dug up the remains of ten bodies hidden beneath the former London home of Benjamin Franklin, the founding father of American Independence.
The remains of four adults and six children were discovered during the 31.9 million restoration of Franklin's home at 36 Craven Street, close to Trafalgar Square. Researchers believe that there could be more bodies buried beneath the basement kitchens.
Initial estimates are that the bones are about 200 years old and were buried at the time Franklin was living in the house, which was his home from 1757 to 1762, and from 1764 to 1775. Most of the bones show signs of having been dissected, sawn or cut. One skull has been drilled with several holes. Paul Knapman, the Westminster coroner, said yesterday: "One cannot totally discount the possibility of a crime. There is still a possibility that I may have to hold an inquest."

 Quoting: HardTruth



Gross! Idol1
:coexistt:


glptrainer(at)yahoo.com
Full disclosure Sir!
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04/08/2011 11:42 AM
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Re: Famous Early American Atheists, Agnostics and Deists

I would like to dispell the myth that our country's founding fathers were Christians.
Here are a few quotes by some of them:


This is your post(below), which I subject to the true letter in its complete form for your review

"And the day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerve in the brain of Jupiter. But may we hope that the dawn of reason and freedom of thought in these United States will do away with this artificial scaffolding, and restore to us the primitive and genuine doctrines of this most venerated reformer of human errors." –Thomas Jefferson, Letter to John Adams, April 11, 1823


Letter to John Adams

Jefferson's letter to John Adams, from Monticello, April 11, 1823.



ear Sir, — The wishes expressed, in your last favor, that I may continue in life and health until I become a Calvinist, at least in his exclamation of `mon Dieu! jusque à quand'! would make me immortal. I can never join Calvin in addressing his god. He was indeed an Atheist, which I can never be; or rather his religion was Dæmonism.
If ever man worshipped a false god, he did. The being described in his 5. points is not the God whom you and I acknowledge and adore, the Creator and benevolent governor of the world; but a dæmon of malignant spirit. It would be more pardonable to believe in no god at all, than to blaspheme him by the atrocious attributes of Calvin. Indeed I think that every Christian sect gives a great handle to Atheism by their general dogma that, without a revelation, there would not be sufficient proof of the being of a god. Now one sixth of mankind only are supposed to be Christians: the other five sixths then, who do not believe in the Jewish and Christian revelation, are without a knowledge of the existence of a god! This gives completely a gain de cause to the disciples of Ocellus, Timaeus, Spinosa, Diderot and D'Holbach. The argument which they rest on as triumphant and unanswerable is that, in every hypothesis of Cosmogony you must admit an eternal pre-existence of something; and according to the rule of sound philosophy, you are never to employ two principles to solve a difficulty when one will suffice. They say then that it is more simple to believe at once in the eternal pre-existence of the world, as it is now going on, and may for ever go on by the principle of reproduction which we see and witness, than to believe in the eternal pre-existence of an ulterior cause, or Creator of the world, a being whom we see not, and know not, of whose form substance and mode or place of existence, or of action no sense informs us, no power of the mind enables us to delineate or comprehend. On the contrary I hold (without appeal to revelation) that when we take a view of the Universe, in it's parts general or particular, it is impossible for the human mind not to perceive and feel a conviction of design, consummate skill, and indefinite power in every atom of it's composition. The movements of the heavenly bodies, so exactly held in their course by the balance of centrifugal and centripetal forces, the structure of our earth itself, with it's distribution of lands, waters and atmosphere, animal and vegetable bodies, examined in all their minutest particles, insects mere atoms of life, yet as perfectly organized as man or mammoth, the mineral substances, their generation and uses, it is impossible, I say, for the human mind not to believe that there is, in all this, design, cause and effect, up to an ultimate cause, a fabricator of all things from matter and motion, their preserver and regulator while permitted to exist in their present forms, and their regenerator into new and other forms. We see, too, evident proofs of the necessity of a superintending power to maintain the Universe in it's course and order. Stars, well known, have disappeared, new ones have come into view, comets, in their incalculable courses, may run foul of suns and planets and require renovation under other laws; certain races of animals are become extinct; and, were there no restoring power, all existences might extinguish successively, one by one, until all should be reduced to a shapeless chaos. So irresistible are these evidences of an intelligent and powerful Agent that, of the infinite numbers of men who have existed thro' all time, they have believed, in the proportion of a million at least to Unit, in the hypothesis of an eternal pre-existence of a creator, rather than in that of a self-existent Universe. Surely this unanimous sentiment renders this more probable than that of the few in the other hypothesis. Some early Christians indeed have believed in the coeternal pre-existence of both the Creator and the world, without changing their relation of cause and effect. That this was the opinion of St. Thomas, we are informed by Cardinal Toleto, in these words `Deus ab æterno fuit jam omnipotens, sicut cum produxit mundum. Ab aeterno potuit producere mundum. — Si sol ab aeterno esset, lumen ab aeterno esset; et si pes, similiter vestigium. At lumen et vestigium effectus sunt efficientis solis et pedis; potuit ergo cum causa aeterna effectus coaeterna esse. Cujus sententiae est S. Thomas Theologorum primus' Cardinal Toleta.

Of the nature of this being we know nothing. Jesus tells us that `God is a spirit.' 4. John 24. but without defining what a spirit is . Down to the 3d. century we know that it was still deemed material; but of a lighter subtler matter than our gross bodies. So says Origen. `Deus igitur, cui anima similis est, juxta Originem, reapte corporalis est; sed graviorum tantum ratione corporum incorporeus.' These are the words of Huet in his commentary on Origen. Origen himself says `appelatio apud nostros scriptores est inusitata et incognita.' So also Tertullian `quis autem negabit Deum esse corpus, etsi deus spiritus? Spiritus etiam corporis sui generis, in sua effigie.' Tertullian. These two fathers were of the 3d. century. Calvin's character of this supreme being seems chiefly copied from that of the Jews. But the reformation of these blasphemous attributes, and substitution of those more worthy, pure and sublime, seems to have been the chief object of Jesus in his discourses to the Jews: and his doctrine of the Cosmogony of the world is very clearly laid down in the 3 first verses of the 1st. chapter of John, in these words:



Which truly translated means `in the beginning God existed, and reason (or mind) was with God, and that mind was God. This was in the beginning with God. All things were created by it, and without it was made not one thing which was made'. Yet this text, so plainly declaring the doctrine of Jesus that the world was created by the supreme, intelligent being, has been perverted by modern Christians to build up a second person of their tritheism by a mistranslation of the word . One of it's legitimate meanings indeed is `a word.' But, in that sense, it makes an unmeaning jargon: while the other meaning `reason', equally legitimate, explains rationally the eternal preexistence of God, and his creation of the world. Knowing how incomprehensible it was that `a word,' the mere action or articulation of the voice and organs of speech could create a world, they undertake to make of this articulation a second preexisting being, and ascribe to him, and not to God, the creation of the universe. The Atheist here plumes himself on the uselessness of such a God, and the simpler hypothesis of a self-existent universe. The truth is that the greatest enemies to the doctrines of Jesus are those calling themselves the expositors of them, who have perverted them for the structure of a system of fancy absolutely incomprehensible, and without any foundation in his genuine words. And the day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter. But we may hope that the dawn of reason and freedom of thought in these United States will do away with all this artificial scaffolding, and restore to us the primitive and genuine doctrines of this the most venerated reformer of human errors.

So much for your quotation of Calvin's `mon dieu! jusqu'a quand' in which, when addressed to the God of Jesus, and our God, I join you cordially, and await his time and will with more readiness than reluctance. May we meet there again, in Congress, with our ancient Colleagues, and receive with them the seal of approbation `Well done, good and faithful servants.'


( Thomas Jefferson, letter to John Adams, from Monticello, April 11, 1823; Lester J. Cappon, ed., The Adams-Jefferson Letters: The Complete Correspondence, Chapel Hill and London: University of North Carolina Press, 1987, pp. 591-594. )
dasMan
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10/09/2012 08:37 PM
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Re: Famous Early American Atheists, Agnostics and Deists
None of the men mentioned were Christians. Because we know they were slavemongers. All of them.

"Christian slavemonger" is an oxymoron, therefore none of those men were disciples of Christ (i.e. Christians).
Anonymous Coward
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10/09/2012 08:53 PM
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Re: Famous Early American Atheists, Agnostics and Deists
Washington DC has always been a problem. (see: Civil War)
Anonymous Coward
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11/20/2012 10:22 AM
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Re: Famous Early American Atheists, Agnostics and Deists
Hey look! I can cut and paste too!~

Benjamin Franklin

have lived, Sir, a long time, and the longer I live, the more convincing proofs I see of this truth--that God governs in the affairs of men... If a sparrow cannot fall to the ground unseen by him, is it probable an empire could arise without his aid? I firmly believe this, and I also believe that without his concurring aid we shall succeed in this political building not better than the builders of Babel.




Alexander Hamilton

In my opinion, the present consitution is the standard to which we are to cling. Under its banner bona fide must we combat our political foes, rejecting all changes but through the channel itself provided for amendments. By these general views of the subject have my reflections been guided. I now offer you the outline of the plan they have suggested. Let an association be formed to be denominated "The Christian Constitutional Society," its object to be first: The support of the Christian religion. second: The support of the United States.


Patrick Henry

"It cannot be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great nation was founded, not by religionists, but by Christians; not on religions but on the gospel of Jesus Christ!" It's not found anywhere in his recorded writings or speeches.



John Jay

I have long been of opinion that the evidence of the truth of Christianity requires only to be carefully examined to produce conviction in candid minds. .




Thomas Jefferson

I, too, have made a wee-little book from the same materials, which I call the Philosophy of Jesus; it is a paradigma of his doctrines, made by cutting the texts out of the book, and arranging them on the pages of a blank book, in a certain order of time or subject. A more beautiful or precious morsel of ethics I have never seen; it is a document in proof that I am a real Christian, that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus.



George Washington


Daily Sacrifice. It was found in April 1891 among a collection of Washington's papers in his confirmed handwriting when he was about the age of twenty. In it he prays:

Bless my family, kindred, friends and country, be our God & guide this day and for ever for his sake, who lay down in the Grave and arose again for us, Jesus Christ our Lord, Amen.
 Quoting: Gradient


God is a fairy tale that grown ups cling to in order to feel better about the fact they'll be gone and nobody will remember them eons down the road. Simple fantasy. We'd all be better off without any God.
Anonymous Coward
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01/12/2013 02:41 PM
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Re: Famous Early American Atheists, Agnostics and Deists
Lies, lies, LIES!

ALL the Founding Fathers were RABID FUNDAMENTALIST CHRISTIANS!

screamrofl


Yeah that's what we're taught to believe but if you read the history books carefully, it isn't true.

I pisses me off when I hear people say "we're a christian nation."

They just use this as a tool to benefit there own agenda.
 Quoting: Skeptical Believer

Here's the deal. They try mighty hard to re-write the history books. Why do you think the fundies want to get rid of public education?

We must remain ever vigilant against their attempts to create a theocracy because they will stop at nothing.
 Quoting: TexasT


I think the reason that anyone wants to get rid of public education is that you can't trust government to educate your children. Better to allow a private market to develop and let people choose where to send your children. Government monopolies are always bad.
Anonymous Coward
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01/12/2013 02:48 PM
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Re: Famous Early American Atheists, Agnostics and Deists
This was also said by Lincoln:

"The Almighty has His own purposes. 'Woe unto the world because of offenses! for it must needs be that offenses come; but woe to that man by whom the offense cometh!' If we shall suppose that American Slavery is one of those offenses which, in the providence of God, must needs come, but which, having continued through His appointed time, He now wills to remove, and that He gives to both North and South, this terrible war, as the woe due to those by whom the offense came, shall we discern therein any departure from those divine attributes which the believers in a Living God always ascribe to Him? Fondly do we hope -- fervently do we pray -- that this mighty scourge of war may speedily pass away. Yet, if God wills that it continue, until all the wealth piled by the bond-man's two hundred and fifty years of unrequited toil shall be sunk, and until every drop of blood drawn with the lash, shall be paid by another drawn with the sword, as was said three thousand years ago, so still it must be said "the judgments of the Lord, are true and righteous altogether." With malice toward none; with charity for all; with firmness in the right, as God gives us to see the right, let us strive on to finish the work we are in; to bind up the nation's wounds; to care for him who shall have borne the battle, and for his widow, and his orphan -- to do all which may achieve and cherish a just, and a lasting peace, among ourselves, and with all nations."

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