i'm big into scientific advancement but this 'experiment' doesn't seem useful and the reward is not worth the risk.
Quoting: Anonymous Coward 369529
Me too! My hereos are Da Vinci, Tesla and Edison...
But they can't prove that this is 100% safe and there's not complete agreeance on the Theory of Relativity even, not to mention other important scientific theories.
They're basing the performance of the Accelerator on non-proven theories.
One slight mis-calculation and the whole world could be destroyed! It may not happen immediately either. The mini-black holes could accumulate in the center of the Earth and start to annihilate after a period of time.
So after they fire it up, if it appears safe we won't even know for sure at that point. Here in this hopeless fucking hole we call LA
Some say the end is near.
Some say we'll see armageddon soon.
I certainly hope we will.
I sure could use a vacation from this
Bullshit three ring circus sideshow of
Freaks.
Who are you 256229? Here in this hopeless fucking hole we call LA
Some say the end is near.
Some say we'll see armageddon soon.
I certainly hope we will.
I sure could use a vacation from this
Bullshit three ring circus sideshow of
Freaks.
Anonymous Coward User ID: 341486 4/3/2008 11:50 AM
Re: So what's really the deal with this CERN Particle Accelerator??
i'm big into scientific advancement but this 'experiment' doesn't seem useful and the reward is not worth the risk.
Me too! My hereos are Da Vinci, Tesla and Edison...
But they can't prove that this is 100% safe and there's not complete agreeance on the Theory of Relativity even, not to mention other important scientific theories.
They're basing the performance of the Accelerator on non-proven theories.
One slight mis-calculation and the whole world could be destroyed! It may not happen immediately either. The mini-black holes could accumulate in the center of the Earth and start to annihilate after a period of time.
So after they fire it up, if it appears safe we won't even know for sure at that point.
Quoting: Skeptical Believer
I have looked at the study you provided and I dont fully understand how this MBH is created in the first place. It is my understanding that a Black 'Hole' is a object of indescribable mass which has a gravity so strong that it keeps sucking in everything including light.
How can a mass so large be created out of a few particles in a tube?
And then why would it go to the centre of the world, wouldn't it pull the world towards it? The important thing is not to stop questioning - Albert Einstein.
I didn't write the articles, only researching and posting them, but here's some more info from this site called Lifeboat Foundation Particle Accelerator Shield.
ARTIFICIAL MINI-BLACK HOLES
Some people are worrying about the world's next-generation particle collider, the Large Hadron Collider, which is due to open for business next year at CERN's facility on the Franco-Swiss border. The LHC site says:
"According to some theoretical models, tiny black holes could be produced in collisions at the LHC. They would then very quickly decay into what is known as Hawking radiation (the tinier the black hole, the faster it evaporates) which would be detected by experiments."
But some scientists have pointed out that Hawking radiation may not exist as documented in the scientific papers Do black holes radiate? and On the Universality of the Hawking Effect.
DANGERS
Sir Martin Rees says:
"It is not inconceivable that physics could be dangerous too. Some experiments are designed to generate conditions more extreme than ever occur naturally. Nobody then knows exactly what will happen. Indeed, there would be no point in doing any experiments if their outcomes could be fully predicted in advance. Some theorists have conjectured that certain types of experiment could conceivably unleash a runaway process that destroyed not just us but Earth itself."
Nick Bostrom says:
"There have been speculations that future high-energy particle accelerator experiments may cause a breakdown of a metastable vacuum state that our part of the cosmos might be in, converting it into a 'true' vacuum of lower energy density. This would result in an expanding bubble of total destruction that would sweep through the galaxy and beyond at the speed of light, tearing all matter apart as it proceeds."
Although neither Sir Martin Rees nor Nick Bostrom are greatly concerned by this potential problem, there is a reason that they call the actions done by the LHC "experiments". If the outcome of an experiment was known beforehand, it would not be called an experiment! What are your thoughts on the experiments that will be conducted at the LHC?
RESOURCES
Existential Risks: Analyzing Human Extinction Scenarios and Related Hazards by Nick Bostrom - Yale 2001 PDF version
In the beginning: scientists get ready to hunt for God particle by Ian Sample, The Guardian - November 20, 2006.
Subatomic Scare Tactics by Alan Boyle, Cosmic Log - September 10, 2006.
Quantum wormholes could carry people by Charles Choi, New Scientist - May 23, 2002. This article says "The CERN Large Hadron Collider in Switzerland is expected to generate one mini-black hole per second, a potential source of wormholes through which physicists could try to send quantum-sized particles."
BOOKS
Destiny Matrix by Jack Sarfatti, 2002.
Earth by David Brin, 1989.
The Meaning of the 21st Century by James Martin, 2006.
Our Final Hour: A Scientist's Warning: How Terror, Error, and Environmental Disaster Threaten Humankind's Future In This Century — On Earth and Beyond by Sir Martin Rees, 2004.
Space: Time And Beyond Ii (Dark Energy) by Jack Sarfatti, 2002.
Super Cosmos by Jack Sarfatti, 2005.
The Trouble With Physics: The Rise of String Theory, the Fall of a Science, and What Comes Next by Lee Smolin, 2006. Here in this hopeless fucking hole we call LA
Some say the end is near.
Some say we'll see armageddon soon.
I certainly hope we will.
I sure could use a vacation from this
Bullshit three ring circus sideshow of
Freaks.
Anonymous Coward User ID: 341486 4/3/2008 12:10 PM
Re: So what's really the deal with this CERN Particle Accelerator??
The CERN people claim it's completely safe, but the consequences are Way too dire to just take this thing lightly.
I'm actually scared shitless about this. They seem so nonchalant about it, trying to compare it to particles in space and all and yet we don't even know if all the current scientific theories are completely accurate!!!
Does anyone else agree with me about this?
Quoting: Skeptical Believer
NO - Completely safe, and evolutionary leap for mankind.
The fear is no different than the many generations past who fears the news about the earth being the round. Recent generations have feared everything from electricity, to TV, to computers, cloning, etc. etc.
This experiment to designed to smash 2 atoms into bits and watch to see if any of those bits disappear out of our existence/dimension and into another parallel existence/dimension. Scientific PROOF of parallel dimensions; the next step in understanding alien life and paranormal phenomena.
We already smash atoms in nuclear tests and reactors and the sun itself is smashing atoms.
Smashing 2 atoms will not create a black hole that will such up the universe.
There are billions of super black holes in the universe, they are natural and part of a balance. None of them have yet to suck the entire universe into it.
I personally believe the PROOF of parallel dimensions in the human collective will allow beings from those dimensions to make "First Contact" now the humans have figured it out.
through the looking glass User ID: 74029 4/3/2008 1:09 PM
Re: So what's really the deal with this CERN Particle Accelerator??
if you knew that an ele was to happen in the near future, would you not do everything in your power to stop it?
i.e. could this actually be the world's first time machine ... the big bang motivation is so stupid it's funny. No way would they go to these lengths for that.
Quoting: Anonymous Coward 290624
it is not the world's first time machine..but it is the biggest
the energy needed to create a 'black hole' for swap ops is massive ..so massive that it is almost impossible to create
eq activity will increase when given the 'go'
Anonymous Coward User ID: 74029 4/3/2008 1:12 PM
Re: So what's really the deal with this CERN Particle Accelerator??
The CERN people claim it's completely safe, but the consequences are Way too dire to just take this thing lightly.
I'm actually scared shitless about this. They seem so nonchalant about it, trying to compare it to particles in space and all and yet we don't even know if all the current scientific theories are completely accurate!!!
Does anyone else agree with me about this?
Quoting: Skeptical Believer
Does anyone remember T.G.'s post predicting what would happen?? He mentioned CERN specifically.... in that CERN would discover just how black holes connected u to other worlds.... Serotonin is the key up-link chemical...
Where is that post btw?? Deleted?
Poofed User ID: 406668 4/3/2008 1:17 PM
Re: So what's really the deal with this CERN Particle Accelerator??
May 29, 2008 Here in this hopeless fucking hole we call LA
Some say the end is near.
Some say we'll see armageddon soon.
I certainly hope we will.
I sure could use a vacation from this
Bullshit three ring circus sideshow of
Freaks.
Anonymous Coward User ID: 407102 4/3/2008 1:27 PM
Re: So what's really the deal with this CERN Particle Accelerator??
The CERN people claim it's completely safe, but the consequences are Way too dire to just take this thing lightly.
I'm actually scared shitless about this. They seem so nonchalant about it, trying to compare it to particles in space and all and yet we don't even know if all the current scientific theories are completely accurate!!!
Does anyone else agree with me about this?
Does anyone remember T.G.'s post predicting what would happen?? He mentioned CERN specifically.... in that CERN would discover just how black holes connected u to other worlds.... Serotonin is the key up-link chemical...
Where is that post btw?? Deleted?
Quoting: Anonymous Coward 407102
March 29 2006 -New Moon -USA & Israel attack Iran.
Cuba and Venezula make the new evil axis list.
In May 2006, China invades Taiwan
Russia arms USA's enemies.
Missiles launched from Cuba destroy East Coast.
West Coast destroyed by Nature's fury.
Along the Mississipi the USA is divided.
Orbs (these are interdimensional, not extraterrestrial) interfere with Nuclear facilities.
USA begins a selective Draft in Fall of 2006.
Anarchy & violent protest IN USA, UK spark a Civil War. Amazingly, it won't take many people to start this civil unrest.
Pakistan and India, as well N. & S. Korea wage wars between themselves.
Israel is destroyed, as well as most of the USA cities.
Atrocities in N. & S. Africa culminate into the unthinkable.
It's no longer about Oil now, but Drinkable water is now the highest commodity.
Bicycles will be the new vehicle.
Cern creates Time Travel in 2011, but is already in a pre-advanced stage.
Because of bleedthroughs -these dates are as close a proximity as there can be at Your present time.
You can prepare to the best of your ability, but only pockets of country dwellers in the USA will live. A good water filter is the best bet before guns and gold.
Viruses from bio-weapons will destroy most of the water, farms, etc.
Look to hydroponics- thus the demand for water.
People will always believe in a God, but many will realise no one will come back to save them.
Alot of UFO activity will take place, especially over nuclear facilities.
2012 will bring some hope, but not a savior or salvation. Because so many people are unaccounted for, many will hope that a rapture did occur to spare their loved ones. 2012 is not all that it is 'cracked up to be'.
Talk of Muons, super strings, 3 families of up and down quarks, particle acclerators, and the isolation of remaining antimatter after matter is subtracted from it will be the key to wormhole transport. Everything happening at very minute scales at first.
Believe as you will, but nothing can really be done at this late stage anymore. It is not pessimism, but reality.
After the 1800's, the blueprint was designed to fail... In retrospect -that bluepint did unfortunately, succeed.
August 2006 and beyond will reveal we no longer live in a world of Love
BTW; There is no pole shift, nor a planet X, but we have a sister universe which is dimensionally 'akin' to ours. This is the easiest access for wormhole tech.
Gravity is definitely not what it is thought to be. We are living in pockets of energy...think of it like the fizz in carbonated water.
The forms of government many are used to seeing will be desolved. There will be multiple presidents simutaneously. The place of 'ruling' will be removed from Washington DC to the higher elevations in the N. West."
Add two years to everything presented... and i think may be ome truth here
The CERN people claim it's completely safe, but the consequences are Way too dire to just take this thing lightly.
I'm actually scared shitless about this. They seem so nonchalant about it, trying to compare it to particles in space and all and yet we don't even know if all the current scientific theories are completely accurate!!!
Does anyone else agree with me about this?
Does anyone remember T.G.'s post predicting what would happen?? He mentioned CERN specifically.... in that CERN would discover just how black holes connected u to other worlds.... Serotonin is the key up-link chemical...
Where is that post btw?? Deleted?
March 29 2006 -New Moon -USA & Israel attack Iran.
Cuba and Venezula make the new evil axis list.
In May 2006, China invades Taiwan
Russia arms USA's enemies.
Missiles launched from Cuba destroy East Coast.
West Coast destroyed by Nature's fury.
Along the Mississipi the USA is divided.
Orbs (these are interdimensional, not extraterrestrial) interfere with Nuclear facilities.
USA begins a selective Draft in Fall of 2006.
Anarchy & violent protest IN USA, UK spark a Civil War. Amazingly, it won't take many people to start this civil unrest.
Pakistan and India, as well N. & S. Korea wage wars between themselves.
Israel is destroyed, as well as most of the USA cities.
Atrocities in N. & S. Africa culminate into the unthinkable.
It's no longer about Oil now, but Drinkable water is now the highest commodity.
Bicycles will be the new vehicle.
Cern creates Time Travel in 2011, but is already in a pre-advanced stage.
Because of bleedthroughs -these dates are as close a proximity as there can be at Your present time.
You can prepare to the best of your ability, but only pockets of country dwellers in the USA will live. A good water filter is the best bet before guns and gold.
Viruses from bio-weapons will destroy most of the water, farms, etc.
Look to hydroponics- thus the demand for water.
People will always believe in a God, but many will realise no one will come back to save them.
Alot of UFO activity will take place, especially over nuclear facilities.
2012 will bring some hope, but not a savior or salvation. Because so many people are unaccounted for, many will hope that a rapture did occur to spare their loved ones. 2012 is not all that it is 'cracked up to be'.
Talk of Muons, super strings, 3 families of up and down quarks, particle acclerators, and the isolation of remaining antimatter after matter is subtracted from it will be the key to wormhole transport. Everything happening at very minute scales at first.
Believe as you will, but nothing can really be done at this late stage anymore. It is not pessimism, but reality.
After the 1800's, the blueprint was designed to fail... In retrospect -that bluepint did unfortunately, succeed.
August 2006 and beyond will reveal we no longer live in a world of Love
BTW; There is no pole shift, nor a planet X, but we have a sister universe which is dimensionally 'akin' to ours. This is the easiest access for wormhole tech.
Gravity is definitely not what it is thought to be. We are living in pockets of energy...think of it like the fizz in carbonated water.
The forms of government many are used to seeing will be desolved. There will be multiple presidents simutaneously. The place of 'ruling' will be removed from Washington DC to the higher elevations in the N. West."
Add two years to everything presented... and i think may be ome truth here
Quoting: Anonymous Coward 407102
Where did you get this stuff from? Visions? Here in this hopeless fucking hole we call LA
Some say the end is near.
Some say we'll see armageddon soon.
I certainly hope we will.
I sure could use a vacation from this
Bullshit three ring circus sideshow of
Freaks.
The CERN people claim it's completely safe, but the consequences are Way too dire to just take this thing lightly.
I'm actually scared shitless about this. They seem so nonchalant about it, trying to compare it to particles in space and all and yet we don't even know if all the current scientific theories are completely accurate!!!
Does anyone else agree with me about this?
Does anyone remember T.G.'s post predicting what would happen?? He mentioned CERN specifically.... in that CERN would discover just how black holes connected u to other worlds.... Serotonin is the key up-link chemical...
Where is that post btw?? Deleted?
March 29 2006 -New Moon -USA & Israel attack Iran.
Cuba and Venezula make the new evil axis list.
In May 2006, China invades Taiwan
Russia arms USA's enemies.
Missiles launched from Cuba destroy East Coast.
West Coast destroyed by Nature's fury.
Along the Mississipi the USA is divided.
Orbs (these are interdimensional, not extraterrestrial) interfere with Nuclear facilities.
USA begins a selective Draft in Fall of 2006.
Anarchy & violent protest IN USA, UK spark a Civil War. Amazingly, it won't take many people to start this civil unrest.
Pakistan and India, as well N. & S. Korea wage wars between themselves.
Israel is destroyed, as well as most of the USA cities.
Atrocities in N. & S. Africa culminate into the unthinkable.
It's no longer about Oil now, but Drinkable water is now the highest commodity.
Bicycles will be the new vehicle.
Cern creates Time Travel in 2011, but is already in a pre-advanced stage.
Because of bleedthroughs -these dates are as close a proximity as there can be at Your present time.
You can prepare to the best of your ability, but only pockets of country dwellers in the USA will live. A good water filter is the best bet before guns and gold.
Viruses from bio-weapons will destroy most of the water, farms, etc.
Look to hydroponics- thus the demand for water.
People will always believe in a God, but many will realise no one will come back to save them.
Alot of UFO activity will take place, especially over nuclear facilities.
2012 will bring some hope, but not a savior or salvation. Because so many people are unaccounted for, many will hope that a rapture did occur to spare their loved ones. 2012 is not all that it is 'cracked up to be'.
Talk of Muons, super strings, 3 families of up and down quarks, particle acclerators, and the isolation of remaining antimatter after matter is subtracted from it will be the key to wormhole transport. Everything happening at very minute scales at first.
Believe as you will, but nothing can really be done at this late stage anymore. It is not pessimism, but reality.
After the 1800's, the blueprint was designed to fail... In retrospect -that bluepint did unfortunately, succeed.
August 2006 and beyond will reveal we no longer live in a world of Love
BTW; There is no pole shift, nor a planet X, but we have a sister universe which is dimensionally 'akin' to ours. This is the easiest access for wormhole tech.
Gravity is definitely not what it is thought to be. We are living in pockets of energy...think of it like the fizz in carbonated water.
The forms of government many are used to seeing will be desolved. There will be multiple presidents simutaneously. The place of 'ruling' will be removed from Washington DC to the higher elevations in the N. West."
Add two years to everything presented... and i think may be ome truth here
Where did you get this stuff from? Visions?
Quoting: Skeptical Believer
I'm curious where that article came from. Is is one of Amitukh Stanford's or something from Pravda or a vision you had? This is a serious question. I'm not being sarcastic or anything. Here in this hopeless fucking hole we call LA
Some say the end is near.
Some say we'll see armageddon soon.
I certainly hope we will.
I sure could use a vacation from this
Bullshit three ring circus sideshow of
Freaks.
Anonymous Coward User ID: 407102 4/3/2008 4:55 PM
Re: So what's really the deal with this CERN Particle Accelerator??
I'm curious where that article came from. Is is one of Amitukh Stanford's or something from Pravda or a vision you had? This is a serious question. I'm not being sarcastic or anything.
They're trying to create a bottomless pit to dispose of nuclear waste. That and particle weapons to be used against Jesus and his followers when He returns.
Anonymous Coward User ID: 403345 4/3/2008 6:25 PM
Re: So what's really the deal with this CERN Particle Accelerator??
I have to add my (huge) bit into this stew that is gently bubbling but needs to be stirred
up a whole lot more in order to wake some of these slumbering one's up.
I keep reading b.s. nonsensical comments about how this is perfectly safe, has been done before in a smaller facility (where?), is just a harmless experiment that will
enlighten us blah blah. Oh yes that makes so much sense. Have you seen the size of this thing. It is absolutely humungous. Any of these red-herring experiments could have been done on a micro scale if they are even scientifically possible.
Nobody has a real clue as to what particle colliding is about and most importantly as the big bang theory is just that, an unproven theory, then why would you have such an gigantic machine that could take out Switzerland and France just by plugging it in, to test a sketchy big bang theory and if anything of use actually came out of a genuine (which this is not) experiment, the common man would not benefit from the knowledge anyway. The same old tactics would apply – charge the taxpaying fools of the world for giant ambiguous experiments that no-one really understands by design, and then withhold any useful resulting knowledge and possibly use it against the same people that paid for it in the first place -not for our benefit.
This Cern thing and all others needs to be wiped from the face of the earth just like HAARP and all the other so-called experiments for scientific benefit.
I can only imagine what this is really for and initially I thought it looked like they were building a big particle beam weapon or something more exotic and even more dangerous. A huge scalar weapon? What do we know about anti matter or dark matter -the creation of it and its application. There just isn't enough time to research all this now. The timing of this all seems a little obvious to me though. Does no-one else see how this is clearly a last huge effort to keep hold of their little earthly prize and ward of any of the soon coming changes ---Not the ones that have been painted by all the disinfo machines as being of a cataclysmic nature of proportions previously unseen –the end mankind –see Zeta b.s. or critters that say Tee Hee a lot while happily spouting forth tales of devastation that they are oddly allowed to reveal but other spiritual secrets are forbidden……………………..hmmmmmm…..Tee Heee……
They have thrown out every thing they can think of - drought, then flood, food shortages, asteroids and comets, Nibiru, X , global warming, a new ice age etc. Contradictions don't matter as long as you can maintain the fear. Bottom line is these fools - the same fools that have been behind the curtain manipulating mankind since day one with all their little banking and political minions in line - think that they can, or will try their damnedest to foil the divine plan where we finally get to break free from all this crapola. You didn't think they would give up without trying some desperate last measures did you? Sneer all you want but it is obvious to anybody that if your sporting a weapon the size of a small country then you sure as hell weren't thinking about a little target practice out back with a few tin cans. You've got some mighty big targets in mind.
Courts of law are a joke and by the time the wheels of justice start to turn they would have done whatever they were planning to do ten times over already. We can only rely at this stage on help from our galactic brothers and sisters that must certainly be aware of all of this and much more. Believe me without their assistance at this monumentally important time we would be well and truly f***ed. I hope people aren't still that naive as to believe that anything done at this scale by the powers that used to be is done to save mankind. Did we forget about all the population reduction plans - disasters
are gooood....saving lives baaaaad - as said by the pointed little tongue of H Kissinger.
If anything needs to be sent through a black hole to an eternal horrific grave it's CERN and all the other installations they are working on ,HAARP (in all their global locations -not just Alaska), Monsanto and their zionist chronies and of course the huge chemtrail
operation and their operators. Did I leave out anything….Hmmmmmmm.
It's the sheer size of this thing that has me concerned, although i suspect that all this may result in as the death of a few hundred scientists when the bloody thing explodes, or maybe something much worse...
Anonymous Coward User ID: 318022 4/3/2008 10:17 PM
Re: So what's really the deal with this CERN Particle Accelerator??
There are a lot of things to worry about on this planet.
But this is something that they aren't 100% sure of!
It has not been completely proven by anyone. I would think you would be a little more concerned about this. IT IS A BIG FUCKING DEAL!
Quoting: Skeptical Believer
I think this is a minor concern at best. We get through every day without 100% assurances of anything. The only reason it's a concern is they used the term "miniature black hole" and that's a scary word for some folks.
The Potential for Danger in Particle Collider Experiments
Available at: Risk Evaluation Forum, March 2005
Risk Evaluation.
(This is an abstract of a longer paper. It has been abstracted for posting on the Risk Evaluation Forum website.)
Summary:
The upcoming Large Hadron Collider (LHC) at CERN could be dangerous. It could produce potentially dangerous particles such as mini black holes, strangelets, and monopoles.
A CERN study indicates no danger for earth, [Ref. 1] but its arguments are incomplete. The reasons why they are incomplete are discussed here.
This paper considers mainly micro black holes (MBHs) with low speeds. The fact that the speed of resultant MBHs would be low is unique to colliders. An important issue is the rate of accretion of matter subsequent to MBH creation.
This study explores processes that could cause accretion to be significant.
Other dangers of the LHC accelerator are also discussed.
I. Arguments for danger in LHC particle accelerator experiments
"In the 27-kilometer-long circular tunnel that held its predecessor, the LHC will be the most powerful particle accelerator in the world. It will smash fundamental particles into one another at energies like those of the first trillionth of a second after the Big Bang, when the temperature of the Universe was about ten thousand trillion degrees Centigrade." [Ref. 5]
1. There is a high probability that micro black holes (MBHs) will be produced in the LHC. A reasonable estimation of the probability that theories with (4+d) dimensions are valid could be more than 60%. The CERN study indicates in this case a copious production of MBHs at the LHC. [Ref. 1] One MBH could be produced every second. [Ref. 4 & Ref. 5]
2. The CERN study indicates that MBHs present no danger because they will evaporate with Hawking evaporation. [Ref. 1] However, Hawking evaporation has never been tested. In several surveys, physicists have estimated a non trivial probability that Hawking evaporation will not work. [Ref. 9] My estimate of its risk of Hawking evaporation failure is 20%, or perhaps as much as 30%.
The following points assume MBH production, and they assume that Hawking evaporation will fail.
3. The cosmic ray model is not valid for the LHC. It has been said that cosmic rays, which have more energy than the LHC, show that there is no danger. This may be true for accelerators that shoot high energy particles at a zero speed target. This is similar to cosmic ray shock on the moon's surface. In these cases the center of mass of interaction retains a high speed. This is different from the situation at the LHC, where particles with opposing speeds collide. With cosmic rays (mainly protons in cosmic rays) we need a speed of 0.9999995 c to create a micro black hole of 1 TeV and after the interaction the micro black hole center of mass will have a speed of 0.999 c. As MBHs are not very reactive with matter, calculations indicate that this is more than enough velocity to cross planets or stars without being caught and to escape into space.
4. Lower speed MBHs created in colliders could be captured by earth. Using Greg Landsberg's calculation [Ref. 3] of one black hole with velocity less than escape velocity from earth produced every 10^5 seconds at the LHC, we have 3.160 (US notation 3,160) MBHs captured by earth in ten years. More precise calculations show that we could have a distribution of MBHs at every range of speed from 0 m/sec to 4 m/sec. The probability of very low speed MBHs is not zero. We need to evaluate if low speed MBHs present more risks.
5. The speed of a MBH captured by earth will decrease and at the end MBHs will come to rest in the center of earth. The speed will decrease because of accretion and interaction with matter.
If we consider that:
a. The CERN study's calculus for accretion uses the "Schwarzschild radius" for the accretion cross section. [Ref. 1] In the case of low speeds, we must not use the Schwarzschild radius for the calculus of accretion. There are several reasons the capture radius extends beyond the Schwarzschild radius. For example, if the MBH speed were zero, gravitational attraction would be active at a distance greater than the Schwarzschild radius.
b. If a MBH accretes an electron, it will acquire a charge and then probably accrete a proton.
c. If a MBH accretes a quark it will then probably accrete a proton. When a quark is caught, the whole nucleon can be expected to be caught because otherwise the black hole would have acquired a charge which is not complete. (For example minus 1/3.) In a nucleus a fractional charge is unstable and is not allowed. This strongly suggests that the MBH will be required to accrete other divided charges to reach a completed integer number of charges. The same process can be expected in regard to quark color.
d. Gauge forces at short distances could also help to capture an atomic nucleus.
Our calculus indicates that a slow speed MBH can be expected to capture 8.400 (US notation 8,400) nucleons every hour, at the beginning of an exponential process.
6. In the center of earth new processes could occur: As stated above, it has been estimated that in ten years 3.160 (US notation 3,160) MBHs could be captured by earth. All MBHs will progressively lose speed because of numerous interactions. After a time (calculations have to be completed to estimate this time) all these MBHs will go toward the precise gravitational center of earth. (Kip Thorne [Ref. 7 p. 111]) After numerous interactions they will stop there at rest and then coalesce into a single MBH. To get an idea and for a first approach our calculus indicates that the mass of this MBH could be on the order of 0.02 g with a radius of 4 x 10^-17 m. At the center of earth, the pressure is 3.6 x 10^11 Pascals. [Ref. 8]. This pressure results from all the matter in Earth pushing on the electronic cloud of central atoms. The move of electrons is responsible of a pressure (called degenerescence pressure) that counterbalance the pressure of all the matter in Earth.
Around a black hole there is not an electronic cloud and there is no degenerescence pressure to counterbalance the pressure of all the Earth matter.To indicate the pressure we must use the surface If in an equation Pressure P = Force F / Surface S if we keep F= Constant and we reduce surface, we are obliged to notice that Pressure P will increase. Here F is the weight of all the matter of Earth and this do not change. As the surface of the MBH will be very small, calculus indicate on this surface an impressive increase of pressure in the range of : P = aprox 7 x 10 ^ 23 Pa .
The high pressure in this region push strongly all the matter in direction of the central point where the MBH is.
Electrons directly in contact with the Micro Black Hole will first be caught, then the nucleus will be caught.
It is sure that the atoms will be caught one after the other but the more the pressure will be important the more the caught will be quick. When a neutron star begins to collapse in a black hole (implosion), at the beginning the black hole is only a micro black hole as we see in [Ref. 7 Page 443]. At this very moment the high gravitational pressure in the center of the neutron star is there breaking the "strong force" which lays between the quarks located into the neutrons.
The MBH will grow there only because of the high pressure.
In center of Earth pressure is normally far to small for such a process, but if we create a slow speed MBH that does not evaporate and if this MBH comes at rest in the center of Earth, the pressure in the center of Earth could be sufficient for the growing of the MBH. We must remember that in the surrounding of the MBH the "strong force" is broken and this could mean that the same kind of pressure process than in neutron star could work there ( in a slow mode compared with a neutron star of course ). In the center of Earth, the high pressure, the high temperature, the increasing mass associated with electrical and gauge forces process could mean important increase of capture and a possible beginning of an exponential dangerous accretion process. Our calculus indicates as a first approximation with a MBH of 0.02 g at rest at the center of earth that the value for accretion of matter could be in the range of 1 g/sec to 5 g/sec.
7. Conclusion about MBHs : We estimate that for LHC the risk in the range of 7% to 10%.
II. Other Risk Factors
The CERN study indicates that strangelets and monopoles could be produced and present no danger for earth. [Ref. 1]
We will present arguments of possible danger.
1. Strangelets
Strangelets are only dangerous for earth if they are not moving rapidly through matter. If only one strangelet is at zero speed there would be danger. We have seen for MBHs that the cosmic ray model is very different from the LHC where particles with opposing speeds collide. We have seen that, given the impact of opposite speed particles, the distribution of speeds of resultant particles indicates the probability of very low speeds (0 m/sec < speed < 4 m/sec) and this could mean dangerous strangelets. We estimate a minimal risk for strangelets on the order of 2%. We might estimate as high as 10 % if we want to be wise because the danger is primary!
2. Monopoles
Monopoles could be produced in the LHC. [Ref. 1] .CERN's calculations indicate that one monopole produced in LHC could destroy 1.018 (US notation 1,018) nucleons but it will quickly traverse the earth and escape into space. However, we know that photons produced in the center of the sun need thousands of years to traverse the sun and escape into space because of the numerous interactions. If the speed given to the monopole after interaction is a speed in a random direction, we can imagine that the monopoles produced in the LHC could stay a very long time in earth and be dangerous. 3. Estimate of danger due to our ignorance of ultimate physical laws: We have not exhausted processes that might cause danger. There are other particles, black energy, black mass, quintessence, vacuum energy, and many non definitive theories. We estimate this danger ranging from a minimal 2% risk to 5%.
III. CONCLUSION
The CERN study [Ref. 1] is a remake of a similar study for the earlier Relativistic Heavy Ion Collider at Brookhaven (RHIC) [Ref. 6] adapted to the LHC.
It is important to notice that: The study for the RHIC had concluded that no black holes will be created. For the LHC the conclusion is very different: "Black holes could be created!" !
The main danger could be now just behind our door with the possible death in blood of 6.500.000.000 (US notation 6,500,000,000) people and complete destruction of our beautiful planet. Such a danger shows the need of a far larger study before any experiment ! The CERN study presents risk as a choice between a 100% risk or a 0% risk. This is not a good evaluation of a risk percentage!
If we add all the risks for the LHC we could estimate an overall risk between 11% and 25%!.
We are far from the Adrian Kent's admonition that global risks that should not exceed 0.000001% a year to have a chance to be acceptable. [Ref. 3] .Even testing the LHC could be dangerous. Even an increase in the luminosity of the RHIC could be dangerous! It would be wise to consider that the more powerful the accelerator will be, the more unpredicted and dangerous the events that may occur! We cannot build accelerators always more powerful with interactions different from natural interactions, without risk. This is not a scientific problem. This is a wisdom problem!
Our desire of knowledge is important but our desire of wisdom is more important and must take precedence. The precautionary principle indicates not to experiment. The politicians must understand this evidence and stop these experiments before it is too late!
1.. Study of potentially dangerous events during heavy-ion collisions at the LHC: Report of the LHC Safety Study Group. CERN 2003-001. February 28, 2003.
2.. E-mail exchange between Greg Landsberg and James Blodgett, March 2003, [link to www.risk-evaluation-forum.org.] (No longer posted. Request a copy. Risk Evaluation Forum, BOX 2371, Albany, NY 12220 0371 USA.)
3.. A critical look at risk assessment for global catastrophes, Adrian Kent, CERN-TH 2000-029 DAMTP-2000-105. Revised April 2003. hep-ph/0009204. Available at: [link to arxiv.org]
4.. High energy colliders as black hole factories: the end of short distance physics, Steven B. Giddings, Scott Thomas. Phys Rev D65 (2002) 056010.
5.. CERN to spew black holes, Nature October 2, 2001.
6.. Review of speculative disaster scenarios at RHIC September 28, 1999 W.Busza, R.L. Jaffe, J.Sandweiss and F.Wilczek.
7.. Trous noirs et distorsions du temps, Kip S. Thorne, Flammarion 1997. ISBN 2-08-0811463-X. Original title: Black holes and times warps. 1994 Norton. New York.
8.. Centre de la Terre, Science & Vie N 1042. Gallate 2004.
9.. Results of several Delphi groups and physicist questionnaires, James Blodgett, Risk Evaluation Forum, forthcoming.
Would someone be kind enough to "Brief History of Time" this for me? (read: translate to non-physics major english) I'd love to understand this better. I can't see how we jump from 'mirco black hole that evaporates' to 'THE UNIVERSE IMPLODING'!?
plus I wonder if there is a point to worrying about it. I mean - if the universe is going to implode -would any of us even have time to think "what the f...?"
When the "Star Angel" opened the "Bottomless Pit," smoke, like the smoke of a great furnace, issued forth and darkened the sun, and there came out of the smoke LOCUSTS upon the earth. These were not ordinary locusts. Neither were the locusts of the "Eighth Egyptian Plague." Ex. 10:3-20. For we read of them that "there were no such locusts as they, neither after them shall be such," that is, just like them.
Simplicity is the key to Heaven.
Ryanssuperman User ID: 501308 9/10/2008 5:34 PM
Re: So what's really the deal with this CERN Particle Accelerator??
i.e. could this actually be the world's first time machine ... the big bang motivation is so stupid it's funny. No way would they go to these lengths for that.
It actually could be a time machine, only for people to come back or us to go forward. Unfortunately there is no way for us to go back as this is the first time we will have blasted a hole in space time.
Quoting: Clavain
Funny how you assume you know how a time machine would work.
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