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The World is only 7000 years old

 
Anonymous Coward
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04/11/2008 02:06 PM
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Re: The World is only 7000 years old
I still cannot understand why - in the case of the oldest buildings known to man - pyramids or neolithic structures, are 4-5000 years old, yet they are decaying and in another 1000 years maybe more, they will be dust. And yet when archaeolgists find a skull and date it from a million years ago, its mostly intact and 'fossilized'. Even if its fossilized, it still would not keep for a million years. Same with rocks, rocks weather and decay,theres no way they can last for a billion years as some rocks on earth are dated at.

Just because we question our known science, doen't mean we insane fundamentalists. I have seen no argument reasonably putting the case for a 4.5 billion year old earth.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 294313

One of the biggest questions so few want to deal with is just how old is a year? Do you measure astronomically, or via atomic clocks. Do you count off the number of days of Earth's rotation for the Earth to complete one orbit with respect to the background of stars, or do you use an atomic clock to measure off that time rather than the number of rotational day?

Seasons, days, monts, years, they are all relative to some absolute time reference. Atomic radiometric decay rates are merely assumed to be constant, we have not been around long enough and recording long enough to prove they have even been constant over the past 200 years.

But assume for a moment that radiometric decay rates have been constant since "creation" even then that does in no way mean the atomic clock length of Earth years has been a constant. Each if we can calculate or measure 4.5 billion years in terms of atomic clock time, just how long was each orbital year in atomic time when we know that at least the atomic time length of the day varies from day to day.

So many assumptions blindly made about how long each and every year was in terms of atomic clock time. A year's length in atomic time fully depends on the orbital distance from the Sun. Change the orbit and you change the atomic clock time of its year. Of course there are those who think the Earth's orbit is so fixed that it could never have possibly changed and that no celestial body could ever leave its prescribed orbit, but tell that to Planet Jupiter.

When it says Adam lived 930 Years.. ah.. just how many days would the be? Just how many atomic clock seconds would that be? What makes you think Adam's year had the same number of days in it or the same number of atomic clock seconds in it as we find our years to have?
Anonymous Coward
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04/11/2008 02:08 PM
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Re: The World is only 7000 years old
There are literally ancient trees over 8000 years old. Get over your crock of shit.
 Quoting: LEON 337882

That would be 8,000 growth rings.. the assumption is that they represent years rather than growing seasons, it could well be at some point in the past a year had two growing seasons. And besides, how long was each and every one of those years?
Anonymous Coward
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04/11/2008 02:12 PM
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Re: The World is only 7000 years old
But let not this one thing be hidden from you, beloved, that one day with [the] Lord [is] as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

2 Peter 3:8
 Quoting: 113333

Of course that is a figure of speech. But for a moment scratch out the "as" Both of them. Is it at all possible that on some planet some where 1,000 of its years equals 1 of its days? Yes. It all would depend on the rate of rotation of that planet around its poles. So the statement that a day is a thousand years, and a thousand years one day is not at all absurd.

Put the as's back in, they really do belong there. To many Bible thumpers and their distractors like to leave them out.
Anonymous Coward
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04/11/2008 02:20 PM
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Re: The World is only 7000 years old
There are mountains and canyons of evidences for a global flood. This global flood destroys the geocolumn dating method.





Okey, a quick question...

Where did the water for this global flood come from and more importantly where did it go afterwards?

(And please restrain yourselves with answers like "God" did it, it is childish and inapropriate for an adult discussion)

There are huge underground aquaferes
Huge Underground "Ocean" Found Beneath Asia
[link to news.nationalgeographic.com]

And this is what the Bible says happened:

And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters. And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so. And God called the firmament Heaven. Gen.1:6

The water then ran off where it is today in the oceans.

The Hydroplate Theory
Dr. Walt Brown 6.47 min.

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 412415

The more I study it, even with its missing mechanism the more I am liking Neal Adam's Growing Earth Hypothesis. There is no plate subduction, no need for it.

I must admit that Gen 1:6-7 are rather difficult to understand, theologican and linguistic scholars and such have several pet theories as to its interpretation, just like science has its theories so to does Scritpure interpretation. Until you get Gen 1:1-5 understood correctly verses 6 and 7 are a real challenge. It has much more to do with semantical-syntax, grammar, definitions of words, parst of speech that the average Bible "student" would like to think, these would like to think that there are very quick and accurate answers to be found but it just isn't so. Genesis and the meanings of each word, clause, phrase and sentence found in it has been the subject of intense debate by some of the brightess minds this planet has known over the past 2,500 years. Publically everyone grabs their pet theory of interpretation and runs with it, few will admit publically that it is extremely challanging to understand.

I have been studying Dr. Walt Brown's approach for the past five years or so and find somethings that need improvement, and some things that need updated with more modern findings. His is and interesting hypothesis both in Biblical exegetes and Scientific study.
Frigg Stuyvesant

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04/11/2008 02:22 PM
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Re: The World is only 7000 years old
The World is only 7000 years old


Uh huh..And I am Frodo Baggins
Cui Bono?
Anonymous Coward
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04/11/2008 02:29 PM
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Re: The World is only 7000 years old
Those that believe this shit are the wingnuts that brainwashed me for almost 20 years while growing up attending a strict, albeit, hypocritical southern baptist school.

It took me along time to rid myself of the hold these wackos had on me.

At 29 I decided to go back to school last year and am a year away from graduating with a Geology degree.

I now have no doubt that the Earth is at least 4.6 billion years old. Science has taught me this and has allowed me to learn the methods to verify it.

You religious wackos took half of my life away from me, for that I will always be resentful.

I'm just lucky I woke up and discovered the truth before it was to late, unlike some around these here parts.
 Quoting: No Longer Suffer From Rectal C 413324


Well, regardless of the true age of the earth, none of that negates Jesus and his message. Now that you are finally free of your brainwashing, here comes the Big Guy to tell you they were right all along. Sorry!
Anonymous Coward
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04/11/2008 02:33 PM
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Re: The World is only 7000 years old
Where did the water for this global flood come from and more importantly where did it go afterwards?

(And please restrain yourselves with answers like "God" did it, it is childish and inapropriate for an adult discussion)
===================

And this is what the Bible says happened:

And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters. And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so. And God called the firmament Heaven. Gen.1:6

The water then ran off where it is today in the oceans.

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 412415

You cannot use Gen 1:6 to state what happened to the Flood waters. Gen 1:6 is speaking of a time long before the Flood of Noah occurred.

With an expanded Earth there is much more room and place for all the water to run off too. Such an expansion or growth in the diameter of the Earth would cause the lighter density crust to deform and produce deep oceanic valleys and high mountains. The water then just seeks its own level and flows to become the current ocean (there is after all only one ocean, one connected body of water).

I have a theory that if you take the massive collection of subterrain water that Dr. Walt Brown speaks of, and it you put this inner shell of water a couple of tens to hundreds of miles thick under the crust, but on a smaller diameter planet, and then you crack the crust by the Earth's growth or expansion (bt super heating the core) it would create something like the 42,000 mile crustal rift an expanded diameter planet, and a massive flood on the resulting surface of that planet, a flood produced by the sub-crustal waters shooting up in a several 10,000 mile long geyser with superheated steam at least 100 miles up into the air, a geyser at least a mile wide if not more. The amount of hydrualic pressure would be immense. The resulting upswelling of water and the resulting rain outs would be very similar to what is describe in the Flood of Noah account. All that is missing is the "mechanism" the smoking gun of what the "trigger" was. But then scientist still argue over what caused their hypothetical Ice Ages and are not in agreement either.
Anonymous Coward
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04/11/2008 02:34 PM
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Re: The World is only 7000 years old
Those that believe this shit are the wingnuts that brainwashed me for almost 20 years while growing up attending a strict, albeit, hypocritical southern baptist school.

It took me along time to rid myself of the hold these wackos had on me.

At 29 I decided to go back to school last year and am a year away from graduating with a Geology degree.

I now have no doubt that the Earth is at least 4.6 billion years old. Science has taught me this and has allowed me to learn the methods to verify it.

You religious wackos took half of my life away from me, for that I will always be resentful.

I'm just lucky I woke up and discovered the truth before it was to late, unlike some around these here parts.


Well, regardless of the true age of the earth, none of that negates Jesus and his message. Now that you are finally free of your brainwashing, here comes the Big Guy to tell you they were right all along. Sorry!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 317795


God actually hates you, and not him, because unlike you, he went out into the world and learned about God's great creation on his own, and didn't just take other people's words for it. God actually wants you to learn about his precious creation and grow with it, faith is a supplement to a greater fulfilment in finding your place in his creation. Instead you incessantly shit on people for doing what God actually intended (why do you think the natural wonders of the earth look so amazing to us), so i'm sure he's just thrilled with you right now. :)
Anonymous Coward
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04/11/2008 02:44 PM
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Re: The World is only 7000 years old
The Hydroplate Theory
Dr. Walt Brown 6.47 min.

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 412415

I do find the comment about the relative lack of erosion between the different layers of the Grand Canyon rock to be very interesting in light of the fact that the different rock layers of the Sphinx are severely eroded between their layers - is the Sphinx then pre-Deluge?
Anonymous Coward
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04/11/2008 02:48 PM
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Re: The World is only 7000 years old
I'm sometimes stunned how people can think the world/universe is only 7000 years old....

The scientific proof is everywhere. Fossils? Geology? Carbon Dating?

Just looking through a telescope proves that the whole universe is billions of years old. Light takes millions of years to reach us from most stars. If the universe is 7000 years old, How can we see the stars?
 Quoting: Clavain


OH YES - I've been searching for the perfect one small paragraph answer to the young earth nutcases.

THANK YOU!!!
Anonymous Coward
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04/11/2008 02:56 PM
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Re: The World is only 7000 years old
I do not care whether the sun and universe is aged based on the earth. My argument is based on the speed of light (c). If we can prove that a star is x distance away from us, then the light takes: x/c = time. This gives us the time which has been found to be millions of years. If we can see these stars, then surely millions and billions of years have passed for us to see them? Logically, the earth would be roughly the same age as other planets which have been discovered too?
 Quoting: Clavain

Ah, Clavain, like don't you have to be there when the light first switched on to know when it first switched on, or otherwise you cannot tell how long that light has been traveling. By there, I mean at that light source and not here as an observer. Red shift, or doppler shift only tells you what direction the light is traveling toward you or away from you, not how long the light has been traveling or how long it has been on. This is especially true if space itself has been stretched out or expanded (which is what the Big Bang theory maintains) at some time or several times in the past. Such an expansion of space itself would throw off your light-time distance measurements as well as your triangulated distance ranging for those light sources.
Anonymous Coward
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04/11/2008 03:04 PM
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Re: The World is only 7000 years old
But let not this one thing be hidden from you, beloved, that one day with [the] Lord [is] as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

2 Peter 3:8

The days of creation were literal days with a morning and evening.
[link to www.answersingenesis.org]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 412415

Think. Please, think.

What exactly is a "literal 24 hour" day? It basically means one rotation of the Earth around its axis. Which could take any amount of time, even billions of "our years". Or mere hours (in our current time hours)

It is time to leave 2 Peter 3:8 be the figure of speech it is. There is nothing literal about 1 day being AS a 1,000 years, nor 1,000 years AS 1 day. And even if it was expressed as an algebraic equation such that: 1 day IS 1,000 years, and 1,000 years IS 1 day. These are two different time keeping systems.. one based on the orbit, and one based on the rotational rate of the planet around its poles.

There is no reason to even assume that the "literal 24 hour" day of Adam's time was even the same fraction of a Year as we find our own "literal 24 hour" day to be. We are never even told how many "literal 24 hour" days were in Adam's year. We are only told how long Adam lived in terms of his Years and not in terms of ours, which may be vastly different. Both would have days of "literal 24 hours" in length. Stop and think a minute about the very definition of the term, "hour". Is it "clock time" or is it really something else when used in the Scriptures?
Anonymous Coward
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04/11/2008 03:07 PM
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Re: The World is only 7000 years old
ALL religions are TOTAL BULLSHIT, there's no god, satan, angels daemons or whatever. you can't expect to be taken serious with such uneducated and primitive thinking...i mean...you simply throw ALL science out of the window and rather base your [non existing] "knowledge" on a religious book called "bible"...you're mentally ill...period and fact.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 384667

You then make a Religion out of Science. Science which still is looking for a "god" particle at CERN. So cool. Science as religion. The Universe is the Self-existent one, always eternally existing in one form or another. Cool. The Universe then is god.
Anonymous Coward
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04/11/2008 03:10 PM
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Re: The World is only 7000 years old
(note radiometric dating is something entirely different then carbon dating).
 Quoting: shevar 361032

Ah, I fail to see how counting the number of Carbon 12 atoms and the number of Carbon 14 atoms (which radioactively decay into Carbon 12) is not radiometric dating.
Anonymous Coward
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04/11/2008 03:10 PM
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Re: The World is only 7000 years old
A creation day is "a morning and an evening" or "light and dark". No mention of 24 hours per se.

I always took that Peter 3:8 to be a way of saying that time is no boundary to God.
what's in a name

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04/11/2008 03:12 PM
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Re: The World is only 7000 years old
wow. i just cant get my mind around that...
the "emperors" have no clothes!
Anonymous Coward
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04/11/2008 03:26 PM
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Re: The World is only 7000 years old
Two floods described in the bible.

The first after the Earth became formless and void, destroyed after the previous kingdoms of the s.a.tan.

Gen 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

Go to the Hebrew and find out the more sure meaning but only for those who want to know and can have the fortitude to be open to better understanding from above. It won't make any difference if you know everything perfectly or not but is a blessing for those who can better understand what the creator of all things has done to put the s.a.tan in his place. Now the choice is open to follow after good or evil and soon the choosing will be over.

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 361590

If you set aside your KJV translation for a moment, there is this other translation of Genesis 1:1-2 that reads:

"In beginning Elohim created the essence of the many-waters and the essence of the Earth. And the Earth came into being without form and lifeless. And darkness was upon the face of the surging mass, And the spirit of Elohiym moved upon the face of the waters. And Elohiym said, "let their be light". And there was light." And it wasn't until the end of the "sixth day" that Elohiym stated that It was all very good, and that it was all prepared, laid down, established and full of life and light and form.

2 Peter 3:1-7 is often used to indicate a universal or at least global flood occured long before the Flood of Noah occurred, and that it was that flood that cause the earth to "become" a ruin and a desolation, or to become without form and void. This issue has been tossed around by Hebrew and Greek scholars for at least two thousand years and there still is no consensus view, nor unamious constent agreement on exactly what it means.
Anonymous Coward
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04/11/2008 03:29 PM
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Re: The World is only 7000 years old
Not enough Stone Age skeletons.

Evolutionary anthropologists now say that Homo sapiens existed for at least 185,000 years before agriculture began, during which time the world population of humans was roughly constant, between one and ten million. All that time they were burying their dead, often with artifacts. By that scenario, they would have buried at least eight billion bodies.If the evolutionary time scale is correct, buried bones should be able to last for much longer than 200,000 years, so many of the supposed eight billion stone age skeletons should still be around (and certainly the buried artifacts). Yet only a few thousand have been found. This implies that the Stone Age was much shorter than evolutionists think, perhaps only a few hundred years in many areas.


If homo sapiens has been around 250,000 years, about how many should have lived in total to date, 7 where are there graves, skeletons & artifacts?!

But according to Lampbert Dolphin PhD (& many other PhDs) of the SRI [link to ldolphin.org]
from 8 humans living c4000 years ago (the survivors of Noah's Flood) is a perfect exponential growth curve to today's population of 6.5 billion!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 413185


You do realise, don't you, that the vast bulk of the earth is unexplored. The number of folks who dedicate their lives to digging up skeletons is extremely small. Kind of like your brain.
Anonymous Coward
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04/11/2008 03:30 PM
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Re: The World is only 7000 years old
What, you dipshits think God is so trivial and short sighted as to have to resort to easily understandable magic tricks?

Yes i'm sure God is so oversimplified and easily understood that he would just be like, POOF, here's the earth...POOF, here's the sun...POOF, here's two people.

Why is it so hard for religion to find its place in the universe and fit in with everything else. Why does everything goat herders said 2000 years ago have to be takin at such an absolute truth?

This shit about science nullfiying God has got to stop. There's people that believe in God that accept that his work began billions of years ago. There's scientists that believe the Earth is billions of years old and still accept and believe in God.

How can God have the power to create Earth 7000 years ago, yet it's completely beyond his power to create the universe 13 billion years ago. Are you people so stuck up your own asses that you use the Lord's name to push your elitest ideals that the only chunk of time that matters is the time that humans have been keeping records and telling exaggerated stories?

I'm sure God would love to have 99.999999999999999999999999999999999999% of his creation shit on by christians and catholics who can't find it in their soul to be accepting of others. I'm sure this is exactly what God intended.

The greatest sign there is a God is that things have lasted for billions of years on end.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 383929


And yet another very well said post. Some people are very intelligent out there. :) I couldn't have said it better myself! :)
Anonymous Coward
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04/11/2008 03:31 PM
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Re: The World is only 7000 years old
What, you dipshits think God is so trivial and short sighted as to have to resort to easily understandable magic tricks?

Yes i'm sure God is so oversimplified and easily understood that he would just be like, POOF, here's the earth...POOF, here's the sun...POOF, here's two people.

Why is it so hard for religion to find its place in the universe and fit in with everything else. Why does everything goat herders said 2000 years ago have to be takin at such an absolute truth?

This shit about science nullfiying God has got to stop. There's people that believe in God that accept that his work began billions of years ago. There's scientists that believe the Earth is billions of years old and still accept and believe in God.

How can God have the power to create Earth 7000 years ago, yet it's completely beyond his power to create the universe 13 billion years ago. Are you people so stuck up your own asses that you use the Lord's name to push your elitest ideals that the only chunk of time that matters is the time that humans have been keeping records and telling exaggerated stories?

I'm sure God would love to have 99.999999999999999999999999999999999999% of his creation shit on by christians and catholics who can't find it in their soul to be accepting of others. I'm sure this is exactly what God intended.

The greatest sign there is a God is that things have lasted for billions of years on end.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 383929


And yet another very well said post. Some people are very intelligent out there. :) I couldn't have said it better myself! :)
Anonymous Coward
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04/11/2008 03:33 PM
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Re: The World is only 7000 years old
I'm sometimes stunned how people can think the world/universe is only 7000 years old....

The scientific proof is everywhere. Fossils? Geology? Carbon Dating?

Just looking through a telescope proves that the whole universe is billions of years old. Light takes millions of years to reach us from most stars. If the universe is 7000 years old, How can we see the stars?
===============

It's all about the assumptions:

1) That carbon-14 is constant in the atmosphere - shown not to be the case - huge variances

2) That being entombned in rock does not affect breakdown

3) That the speed of light is a constant - when scientists have shown that it can speed up or slow down, depending on what it passes through.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 413283

The other assumption: radioactive decay rates have always been what they are today and are constant through out all times and places.
Anonymous Coward
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04/11/2008 03:33 PM
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Re: The World is only 7000 years old
Radiocarbon dating has proven to be null and void, because of false results... if the object being tested has been exposed to fire, smoke and guess what else....


RADIATION.



[link to www.angelfire.com]
Anonymous Coward
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04/11/2008 03:35 PM
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Re: The World is only 7000 years old
Bold statement,speculate all you want,show some proof.
Anonymous Coward
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04/11/2008 03:35 PM
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Re: The World is only 7000 years old
The other question is, did man come into existence 6000 years ago, around 4,000 B.C. how quite a few people think???

Even though the earth is billions of years old, man people think man was created 6000 years ago.
Anonymous Coward
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04/11/2008 03:36 PM
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Re: The World is only 7000 years old
One estimate of the volume of water in the atmosphere at any one time is about 3,100 cubic miles (mi3) or 12,900 cubic kilometers (km3). That may sound like a lot, but it is only about 0.001 percent of the total Earth's water volume of about 332,500,000 mi3 (1,385,000,000 km3), as shown in the table below. If all of the water in the atmosphere rained down at once, it would only cover the ground to a depth of 2.5 centimeters, about 1 inch.

Maybe a flood would be possible if all the ice melted as well? I don't know.
 Quoting: Viper

"Estimate".

Wondering just what volume of water is currently caught up in all the rocks, the mantle, the crust, etc, on Earth. What happens if all that water were to be squeezed out?
Anonymous Coward
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04/11/2008 03:39 PM
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Re: The World is only 7000 years old
It has to be, how can a piece of rock or a skull be descibed as a 'million years old' or whatver, it would be less than dust by that time span.... discuss please.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 294313


Thanks for the invitation to discuss your case. Clearly you are demented and I suggest you jump onto rocks from a high place as this is the only cure.
Anonymous Coward
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Re: The World is only 7000 years old
This why your death will be as horrible as can be arranged.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 413258

Are YOU, GOD, that you should know such a thing?
Anonymous Coward
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04/11/2008 03:42 PM
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Re: The World is only 7000 years old
The other question is, did man come into existence 6000 years ago, around 4,000 B.C. how quite a few people think???

Even though the earth is billions of years old, man people think man was created 6000 years ago.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 376196



New man, the new race, introduced by God via Adam and Eve.
Jodido

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Re: The World is only 7000 years old
I'm sometimes stunned how people can think the world/universe is only 7000 years old....

The scientific proof is everywhere. Fossils? Geology? Carbon Dating?

Just looking through a telescope proves that the whole universe is billions of years old. Light takes millions of years to reach us from most stars. If the universe is 7000 years old, How can we see the stars?


Carbon dating is a human creation and therefore flawed. They even argue over the dating of the Turin shroud now,

And the universe may be billions of years in existence, because time is of no consequence to the Creator, Earth is 7000 years old. I ask again, rocks cannot last for a million or a billion years, no way.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 294313

YA MAN, NO FUCKING WAY!

Do you live in the Bible Belt?

I hope your Belt has bells so I can clear out if you come near.
Anonymous Coward
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04/11/2008 03:47 PM
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Re: The World is only 7000 years old
I am making the assumption that light travels through 1 substance (if you can call it that) a vacuum. It is constant.
 Quoting: Clavain

Yes, and this is a very important assumption, and yet, just that an assumption. And an unprovable one at that. Change the nature of the vacuum of "free space" and you change that "constant". Remember I said change the nature of the "vacuum of free space". Such assumptions to be applied with any form of "certainty" calls for that certainty to be based on blind faith in one's working assumption.

E = MC^2 or in other words, C = square root of (E/M). As an algebraic equation the only way C can be constant is if both E and M are constants as well.

Say for a moment that God injects a bunch more light energy or photons into the Universe from His side of the quantum froth. The amount of Energy in the universe has just increased, what does that then do by that equation to the speed of light?

If you stretch out the fabric of space you have changed the permeativity and the permisstivity of space and hence have changed the vacuum of free space, so light speed would have to change.

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