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| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 269684
4/28/2008 12:11 PM | | Re: War Thread - The Official Israel v. Syria, Hezbollah, Iran, Hamas War Thread 2008. | Quote |
[link to www.ynetnews.com]
South under fire: More rockets fired from Gaza
Another rocket barrage fired from Gaza Monday afternoon; earlier, rocket landed near Sderot house
Shmulik Hadad Latest Update: 04.28.08, 17:56 / Israel News
Attacks continue: Palestinian terrorists renewed their rocket fire from the Gaza Strip Monday afternoon. At least seven rockets and one mortar shell were fired at southern Israel, with two landing in open areas near Sderot. Another rocket landed in the Sdot Negev Regional Council. Two more rockets landed in Sha'ar Hanegev Regional Council, and one more landed in Palestinian territory.
No injuries or damage were reported in the latest barrage.
Terrorists have been firing Qassam rockets and mortar shells at Gaza-region communities starting Monday morning, shortly after a mother and her four children were killed in an Israel Defense Forces strike in the northern Gaza Strip town of Beit Hanoun.
Monday morning, xix rockets were fired from the northern Strip, landing in the Sderot area. One rocket was fired at around 2 pm, landing in an open area near Sderot. A woman who ran to take shelter after hearing the Color Red Alert system slipped and was lightly injured.
One of the Qassams fell near a house in the southern city, where several people suffered from shock and a dog was injured by shrapnel.
'They began to scream and panic'
Yarden Nagar, the branch manager of the local post office, told Ynet, "There were many people at the branch. When they heard the Color Red (alert system), they were afraid to leave and stayed here.
"We heard a loud explosion and they began to scream and panic. Several minutes later they went out and discovered that the rocket landed in a nearby house across the street."
Two additional rockets landed within the Shaar Hanegev Regional Council, one of them starting a fire.
Earlier Monday, nine mortar shells landed in an open area within the Ashkelon Coast Regional Council and in the Kerem Shalom area. There were no reports of injuries or damage. The Islamic Jihad's military wing claimed responsibility for the mortar attack.
At around 8 am Monday, Palestinians fired three Qassam rockets from the northern Gaza Strip. The rockets landed in the Netivot area, within the Shaar Hanegev Regional Council and on Palestinian territory. There were no reports of injuries or damage. |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 269684
4/28/2008 2:11 PM | | Re: War Thread - The Official Israel v. Syria, Hezbollah, Iran, Hamas War Thread 2008. | Quote |
20:59
U.K. says `significant proportion` of Iraqi insurgent weapons come from Iran (AP)
[link to www.haaretz.com]
-even got the UK now stepping up the rhetoric against Iran |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 269684
4/28/2008 3:21 PM | | Re: War Thread - The Official Israel v. Syria, Hezbollah, Iran, Hamas War Thread 2008. | Quote |
21:32 Lebanese army: 12 Israeli warplanes fly over Beirut, other Lebanese areas (AP)
[link to www.haaretz.com] |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 269684
4/28/2008 4:01 PM | | Re: War Thread - The Official Israel v. Syria, Hezbollah, Iran, Hamas War Thread 2008. | Quote |
-Military Man, haven't heard from you today, what's the mood over there. sounds pretty tense up north
[link to www.ynetnews.com]
Lebanese army: 12 Israeli jets flew over Beirut
Tensions in the north? Lebanon says 'enemy' airplanes violated its airspace Monday, flew over Lebanese cities; Meanwhile, Israel complains that UNIFIL forces fail to report illegal Hizbullah activities
Associated Press Published: 04.28.08, 22:35 / Israel News
The Lebanese army reported that Israeli Air Force jets flew over Beirut on Monday. The army said in a statement that 12 "enemy" Israeli warplanes violated Lebanese airspace before noon Monday by flying missions over Beirut and elsewhere in the country. The IDF said it will not discuss its operational activities.
The Lebanese statement added that four jets flew over the Mediterranean off the coastal city of Byblos in the north and headed toward the eastern province of Hermel, while eight other jets flew over the southern town of Rmeish, then headed north to Beirut, the Chouf Mountains, southeast of the capital, and Hermel before flying back to the "occupied territories."
The Israeli over-flights lasted about an hour, the statement said.
Meanwhile, Israeli officials remarked that UN forces stationed in Lebanon do not report fully on Hizbullah's illegal activities in southern Lebanon. The officials claimed that Hizbullah is violating the ceasefire treaty signed at the end of the Second Lebanon War, banning group members from entering the demilitarized territory near the border with Israel.
The officials also claimed that UN forces came across a suspicious truck being followed by gunmen late in March, but neglected to report the incident in full to the UN Security Council. The incident was mentioned in short in Secretary-General Ban KI-moon's report, but Hizbullah was not held responsible. UN forces said the gunmen escaped and have not been identified. |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 424680
4/28/2008 4:31 PM | | Re: War Thread - The Official Israel v. Syria, Hezbollah, Iran, Hamas War Thread 2008. | Quote |
When an insignificant flyover constitutes big news, know that this lame thread is dead. |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 269684
4/29/2008 8:37 AM | | Re: War Thread - The Official Israel v. Syria, Hezbollah, Iran, Hamas War Thread 2008. | Quote |
[link to www.haaretz.com]
MI chief: Terror groups planning major attacks on Israel's 60th
By Barak Ravid, Haaretz Correspondent
Tags: Israel, Hamas, Gaza
Military Intelligence Chief Amos Yadlin warned the government Tuesday that Palestinian terror organizations are interested in executing a large-scale terrorist attack ahead of Israel's 60th anniversary celebrations.
Yadlin said that the attack may be at the Gaza border, similar to the one Hamas failed to execute a few days before Passover in Kerem Shalom.
Yadlin added that Hamas was also trying to break the blockade of Gaza by causing another border breach. Due to Egypt's tightened security, however, Yadlin believes that this time the Hamas will focus on the Israeli border.
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At first, Yadlin said, the organization would prefer a popular uprising, similar to the border breach in January, in which masses of Gazans streamed across the breached fence towards Egypt.
"However if the popular move fails, Hamas may try to breach the border in a military operation," he warned.
Yadlin said that Hamas may also attempt kidnapping Israelis, placing snipers at the borders and placing explosive devices in the area.
According to Yadlin, the political leaders in Hamas are losing some of their power to the military leaders. |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 269684
4/29/2008 8:38 AM | | Re: War Thread - The Official Israel v. Syria, Hezbollah, Iran, Hamas War Thread 2008. | Quote |
[link to yalibnan.com]
Analysis: An Iranian general is pulling all the strings in Iraq
Published: Tuesday, 29 April, 2008 @ 5:04 AM in Beirut (GMT+2)
Beirut / Baghdad -- One of the most powerful men in Iraq isn't an Iraqi government official, a militia leader, a senior cleric or a top U.S. military commander or diplomat. He's an Iranian general, and at times he's more influential than all of them.
Brig. Gen. Qassem Suleimani (51) ( pictured) commands the Iranian Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps' Quds Force, an elite paramilitary and espionage organization whose mission is to expand Iran's influence in the Middle East .
As Tehran's point man on Iraq , he funnels military and financial support to various Iraqi factions, frustrating U.S. attempts to build a pro-Western democracy on the rubble of Saddam Hussein's dictatorship.
According to Iraqi and American officials, Suleimani has ensured the elections of pro-Iranian politicians, met frequently with senior Iraqi leaders and backed Shiite elements in the Iraqi security forces that are accused of torturing and killing minority Sunni Muslims.
"Whether we like him (Suleimani) or not, whether Americans like him or not, whether Iraqis like him or not, he is the focal point of Iranian policy in Iraq ," said a senior Iraqi official who asked not to be identified so he could speak freely. "The Quds Force have played it all, political, military, intelligence, economic. They are Iranian foreign policy in Iraq ."
McClatchy reported on March 30 that Suleimani intervened to halt the fighting between mostly Shiite Iraqi security forces and radical Shiite cleric Muqtada al Sadr's Mahdi Army militia in the southern city of Basra. Iraqi officials now confirm that in addition to that meeting, Iraqi President Jalal Talabani personally met Suleimani at a border crossing to make a direct appeal for help.
Iraqi and U.S. officials told McClatchy that Suleimani also has:
-- Slipped into Baghdad's Green Zone, the heavily fortified seat of the U.S. occupation and the Iraqi government, in April 2006 to try to orchestrate the selection of a new Iraqi prime minister. Iraqi officials said that audacious visit was Suleimani's only foray into the Green Zone; American officials said he may have been there more than once.
-- Built powerful networks that gather intelligence on American and Iraqi military operations. Suleimani's network includes every senior staffer in Iran's embassy in Baghdad , beginning with the ambassador, according to Iraqi and U.S. officials.
-- Trained and directed Shiite Muslim militias and given them cash and arms, including mortars and rockets fired at the U.S. Embassy and explosively formed penetrators, or EFPs, the sophisticated roadside bombs that have caused hundreds of U.S. and Iraqi casualties.
"I'm extremely concerned about what I believe to be an increasingly lethal and malign influence by ( Iran's ) government and the Quds Force, in particular in Iraq and throughout the Middle East ," Adm. Michael Mullen , the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, said Friday. |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 269684
4/29/2008 8:39 AM | | Re: War Thread - The Official Israel v. Syria, Hezbollah, Iran, Hamas War Thread 2008. | Quote |
Military Man or Mossad Agent's Wife - any new updates?? |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 269684
4/29/2008 10:58 AM | | Re: War Thread - The Official Israel v. Syria, Hezbollah, Iran, Hamas War Thread 2008. | Quote |
 |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 269684
4/29/2008 11:10 AM | | Re: War Thread - The Official Israel v. Syria, Hezbollah, Iran, Hamas War Thread 2008. | Quote |
Casualties mount in Baghdad clash
[link to news.bbc.co.uk]
The death toll has climbed as the Baghdad clashes go on
At least 28 militants have been killed during battles in the Sadr City area of Baghdad, the US military has said.
The deaths come during intensified fighting in the Iraqi capital between militants loyal to Shia cleric Moqtada Sadr and US and Iraqi forces.
The US military said a number of its soldiers had been wounded during Tuesday's fighting.
Clashes flared up on Sunday after militia members attacked coalition positions during a sandstorm.
Last week Moqtada Sadr told his supporters that while they should continue "resisting" what he called the US "occupation" of Iraq, they should not fight Iraqis.
But he has also rejected the Iraqi government's conditions for ending a crackdown on Shia militias.
These include militias handing in their weapons and handing over fighters wanted by the authorities.
Stream of injured
Sadr City is a slum considered to be a bastion of the forces loyal to Moqtada Sadr.
Doctors in the area's two hospitals said on Tuesday that they had received a stream of casualties throughout the day, the BBC's Patrick Howse reported from Baghdad.
More than 50 people had been injured in the fighting, the doctors said. Meanwhile, militants continued to use rockets and mortars to bombard the Green Zone, the complex in Baghdad that houses government buildings and foreign embassies. On Monday, four US soldiers were killed by rocket and mortar fire in the east of the capital. |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 269684
4/29/2008 1:27 PM | | Re: War Thread - The Official Israel v. Syria, Hezbollah, Iran, Hamas War Thread 2008. | Quote |
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| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 269684
4/29/2008 2:47 PM | | Re: War Thread - The Official Israel v. Syria, Hezbollah, Iran, Hamas War Thread 2008. | Quote |
Zahar: We have 200000 suicide bombers
Jerusalem Post ^ | 4-29-08 | KHALED ABU TOAMEH
Posted on Tuesday, April 29, 2008 2:28:12 PM by SJackson
Israel may have 200 nuclear warheads, but Hamas has 200,000 people who want to blow themselves up inside Israel, Hamas leader Mahmoud Zahar said Tuesday.
Slideshow: Pictures of the week Zahar, who was speaking to supporters at the Islamic University in Gaza City, said Israel would pay a heavy price if it rejected the Egyptian initiative for truce with the Palestinians.
"If Israel says no, it will pay a heavy price," he said. "We are a besieged people and we will have to use all our tools to defend ourselves against Israel."
Zahar said he expected Egyptian Intelligence Chief Omar Suleiman to brief Israeli leaders next week on Cairo's efforts to achieve a truce.
He said that once Israel accepted the Egyptian initiative, all the border crossings into the Gaza Strip would be reopened. "The issue of the truce initiative will be determined finally next week," he added. "I believe Israel will accept the initiative, although it will try to drag its feet on some issues."
The Hamas leader pointed out that his movement had accepted a cease-fire with Israel in 2005. "Hamas benefited from that truce and no one can deny this," he said. "Even those who opposed the previous truce have admitted that it was useful."
Zahar criticized Palestinian factions that were opposed to the latest Egyptian initiative, saying some of them had received $1.5 million from Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas to boycott a Hamas rally against the US-sponsored peace conference in Annapolis last December.
Zahar said that Hamas would not agree to the presence of EU monitors at the Rafah border crossing, as was the case before June 2007, when Hamas took full control over the entire Gaza Strip. In the past, Hamas said it would agree to the return of the monitors on condition that they lived in the Gaza Strip or Egypt and not in Israel.
Zahar's remarks came as representatives of several Palestinian groups began talks in Cairo over the truce proposal.
The Egyptians summoned the representatives in a bid to persuade them to accept the initiative. Among the groups that are participating in the discussions are Islamic Jihad, the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine and the Democratic Front for the Liberation of Palestine.
An Egyptian diplomat told The Jerusalem Post that all the groups have agreed in principle to the truce. He said that Cairo was optimistic regarding the prospects of achieving a deal as early as next week, especially since Hamas has already agreed to the truce.
The diplomat confirmed that Omar Suleiman was planning to visit Israel next week for talks with Israeli government officials on the outcome of his discussions with the Palestinian groups. "We are very close to achieving an agreement," the diplomat said. "We believe all the parties are interested in a lengthy period of calm."
Hamas legislator Mushir al-Masri said Tuesday that a truce with Israel would not be possible unless all the Palestinian groups agreed to it.
"We won't go to a hudna [temporary truce] unless there is a consensus among the Palestinians about it," he said. "We are aware that some groups are opposed to a truce, but don't believe that the major factions would reject a mutual and comprehensive truce that would end the siege imposed on the Gaza Strip." |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 192909
4/30/2008 10:48 PM | | Re: War Thread - The Official Israel v. Syria, Hezbollah, Iran, Hamas War Thread 2008. | Quote |
Olmert's Crazy Idea
Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert is said to be willing to give back Syria 's Golan Heights in return for peace with the Arab state. No, this is not some belated April Fool's joke. Several sources have confirmed this as a fact.
According to government officials, Israel is very serious about returning the land as part of a peace pact. There are several conditions that Syria would first need to meet. Israel made clear that any peace agreement would necessitate Syria ending its support for Hamas and throwing Hamas political leader Khaled Mashaal out of Damascus; ceasing support for Hezbollah; and distancing itself from Iran .
Olmert gave clues to Israeli newspapers two week ago when he said that the two nations had exchanged messages clarifying what each would expect from a peace deal.
"They know what we want from them, and I know full well what they want from us," Olmert told the Israeli newspaper Yediot Ahronot. " Israel is open to peace with Syria," he told another paper, Maariv.
Syrian President Assad told officials of Syria 's ruling Baath party that the exchange explored the possibility of resuming peace talks. Israel "knows well what is accepted and not accepted by Syria ."
The Golan Heights was seized from Syria in the 1967 Mideast War. The territory was successfully defended in the 1973 Yom Kippur War and a sizable portion was later returned to Syria in the 1980s.
The Golan Heights is of strategic importance because it is a plateau and mountainous region that lies between Israel and Syria . Without this buffer zone, much of Israel 's northern population center would be within visual range of Syrian artillery and rockets.
A return of the whole of the Golan would bring the board right down to the shores of the Sea of Galilee . The city of Tiberias would have to worry about attacks from Syrian gun boats.
Another important thing about the Golan Heights is that much of Israel 's water comes from the Golan Mountains. The headwaters of the Jordan river are set in the Golan.
Leaders from Israel 's Likud Party wasted no time condemning the plan. Lawmaker Yuval Steinitz accused Olmert of "unprecedented recklessness" in a the message exchange. "Without the Golan, Israel will be hard-pressed to defend its existence." Likud Party Whip Gidon Saar said Olmert is "gambling irresponsibly with Israel 's national and strategic assets, (and there is) no public support to do so."
In my view, Israel would be signing its death warrant in giving up the Golan Heights . The fiasco that resulted from the turning over of the Gaza Strip to the Palestinians should have convinced Olmert that this is a dumb idea. Once Israel pulled out of Gaza, Islamic terrorists quickly moved in, and now everyday rockets are being fired into southern Israel from the Gaza board.
I don't see why Israel thinks it's required to give back this land. Syria lost the Golan Heights as result of a surprise attack it launched against Israel . If history is any guide, the aggressor in any war is always out of luck when it comes to redrawing the map. Germany lost a large part of its western territory to Poland as a result of World War II. Japan lost several islands in the conflict.
In 1981, Israel had already decided to annex the Golan Heights. It got cold feet when the international community refused to recognize its claim to the Golan. By acknowledging that it holds territory that rightfully belongs to its neighbor, Israel has made itself look like an unjust occupier.
I would hope that the Israeli people will never agree to such a crazy idea. Unfortunately, the promise of peace has caused the public into supporting equally foolish decisions in the past.
Just by making this proposal, the chance of war with Syria is made all the more likely. If the Golan territory is given back, militants could easily move into these rugged mountains and launch hit-and-run terror attacks against Jewish settlements. If Israel fails to follow through on its decision to give back the land, Syria has already promised it will launch a war to liberate its territory. |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 272356
5/1/2008 8:57 AM | | Re: War Thread - The Official Israel v. Syria, Hezbollah, Iran, Hamas War Thread 2008. | Quote |
C'mon Military Man and Mossad Agent's Wife - what's the deal, you've let this thread drop. Olmert makes it sound as if peace is going to break out region wide instead of war. what are your sources telling you?? |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 272356
5/1/2008 9:12 AM | | Re: War Thread - The Official Israel v. Syria, Hezbollah, Iran, Hamas War Thread 2008. | Quote |
Special Unit Reached Syria Reactor From Iraq
ArutzSheva ^ | April 30, 2008 | IsraelNN.com
Posted on Thursday, May 01, 2008 7:18:08 AM by ScaniaBoy
According to new information leaked by western intelligence sources, a special ground forces unit reached the Syrian reactor from Iraq. In the weeks that preceded the bombing of the site, the force stayed in Iraqi territory with the knowledge of the U.S. military, and with its assistance. The details are reported by www.sigint.co.il, which does not name the unit because of censorship but says it is "an operational unit which works alongside a well-known intelligence organization."
The unit reportedly stayed near the Iraqi-Syrian border during August and September of 2007, documented the site's construction and "marked" it before its destruction. It was not clear from the report whether this "marking" refers to laser-marking of targets for fighter-bombers, or to something else.
The unit reportedly received assistance from "local elements" who are hostile to the Syrian regime. The report notes that Kurdish fighters maintain a permanent presence in the area and have been known to assist western intelligence operations. |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 272356
5/1/2008 10:25 AM | | Re: War Thread - The Official Israel v. Syria, Hezbollah, Iran, Hamas War Thread 2008. | Quote |
Qassam barrage hits western Negev
[link to www.ynetnews.com]
Western Negev suffers barrage of ten Qassams. One lands in Sderot, causing shock to high school students. Another damages kibbutz home
Shmulik Hadad Published: 05.01.08, 13:45 / Israel News
At least ten Qassam rockets were fired from Gaza on Thursday afternoon. Seven fell in the area of Sderot, and at least two fell in open spaces near Ashkelon. One of the rockets fell near a high school in Sderot, while another fell in a kibbutz in Sha'ar Hanegev Regional Council, damaging a house. The other rockets landed in open spaces in the area of Sderot and Ashkelon, and one has not yet been found but is estimated to have landed near Erez crossing.
Four Sderot residents were treated for shock, including three high school students. Eli Edri, principal of the religious Sderot high school next to which the rocket hit, told Ynet: "Unfortunately this is the daily reality we are faced with. After the firing we try to resume the school routine as quickly as possible, but after every barrage we are forced to evacuate at least one or two students suffering from shock."
One of the members of the kibbutz in which the rocket fell said that it landed close to the kibbutz's grocery store, which is located within close proximity of two houses.
"People in the store heard the alarm and took cover. Fortunately no one was injured. The houses near the store were damaged slightly. Our kibbutz is regularly fired at and our houses are unprotected."
On Wednesday evening, a short while after the Holocaust remembrance ceremony had begun, two Qassam rockets landed in open areas surrounding the town of Sderot. No injuries or damage were reported.
Before the ceremony began the participants were instructed on what to do in case the alarm was set off during the proceedings. A total of 15 rockets landed in the Negev on Wednesday.
The IDF on Thursday morning killed Nafez Mansur, a 40-year old Hamas gunman reportedly involved in the abduction of Gilad Shalit and the terror attack on Kerem Shalom.
Three more gunmen were injured in an Air Force strike in the southern Gaza Strip town of Rafah. Palestinian sources reported that one of the men was seriously injured. A bystander and girl were also injured in the attack. The strike targeted Hamas' Izz al-Din al-Qassam Brigades' terrorists with the cooperation of the Shin Bet. |
| picesnator
User ID: 318318
5/1/2008 10:51 AM | | Re: War Thread - The Official Israel v. Syria, Hezbollah, Iran, Hamas War Thread 2008. | Quote |
my big question...is...supposed mexico fired mortars and rockets into texas.....how long would the united states put up with that???....and the good ol' boys live with it???...ask yourself ... i suspect not very long.. |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 272356
5/1/2008 12:34 PM | | Re: War Thread - The Official Israel v. Syria, Hezbollah, Iran, Hamas War Thread 2008. | Quote |
Bluff and Bloodshed
The Persian Gulf is more dangerous than ever. Will the U.S. and Iran go to war at sea?
10:21 a.m. ET May 1, 2008
[link to www.newsweek.com]
If there's a war between the United States and Iran, it may well start on the water. After all, it's happened before. Twenty years ago American ships were under fire in the Persian Gulf, and mines laid by the mullahs' men nearly sank a U.S. guided missile cruiser. In April 1988 the American and Iranian navies fought the biggest air-sea battle waged since World War II. By the time it was over, carrier-based U.S. attack planes had sunk the frigate Sahand and disabled the frigate Sabalan, the pride of the Iranian navy.
That's why the comment by Defense Secretary Robert Gates on Tuesday about the brief deployment of a second U.S. aircraft carrier to the gulf was so terse and so telling. "I don't see it as an escalation," Gates said. "I think it could be seen, though, as a reminder."
Gates would know. He was deputy director of the Central Intelligence Agency back in 1988. He has seen first hand the treacherous complexities, the bluff and the bloodshed, of war with Iran, whether fought in the shadows or on the high seas. And anyone who was out in the gulf at the time, as I was, can see similarities between then and now. But looking back at the last undeclared war with Iran, who is reminded of what, precisely? The challenge is to draw the right lessons.
For those who've forgotten those naval operations with computer-generated names like Earnest Will, Nimble Archer and Praying Mantis (and I suspect most people in the United States don't remember them at all) the best history I've read is "Inside the Danger Zone: The U.S. Military in the Persian Gulf, 1987-1988," by Harold Lee Wise, which came out last year from the U.S. Naval Institute Press. It's not only thoroughly researched, it reads like a Tom Clancy thriller, or, rather, better. And Wise, too, is worried about what's happening now.
As he sees it, any war with Iran today is going to involve a major naval component. Forty percent of the world's oil supply passes through the gulf on vulnerable tankers, he points out, and that would come under direct threat.
Wise, in a paper he sent me this week, argues there are three basic lessons to be gleaned from the fight 20 years ago:
1. Even if outgunned, Iran will not back down from a fight.
In 1988, the Iranians surprised American intelligence officers with their "aggressiveness, and boldness," says Wise. In one of the shootouts during the battle in April 1988, an Iranian guided missile patrol boat confronted three U.S. warships. "Despite radio warnings that the Americans intended to sink it, the patrol boat captain did not surrender and instead attacked," says Wise. "Later in the battle, two Iranian frigates left the safety of port to join the fight against what they surely knew were overwhelming odds."
2. Low-tech weapons are effective in naval conflict.
"Modern technology remains weak at detecting undersea mines," according to Wise. But mines are not the only problem. In the 1980s, as now, the Iranians used "swarming" tactics against larger merchant and naval vessels, sending relatively small boats at high speeds buzzing around and near the U.S. ships. The same thing happened in January this year, and possibly - the boats were never identified - just last week around a merchant ship on contract to the U.S. Navy.
3. Fight fire with fire.
In 1988, the most effective way to combat the Iranians turned out to be with weapons similar in scale to their own. Special Operations Forces using stealth helicopters from bases built on huge oil barges in the northern gulf effectively shut down Iranian mine-laying activity there.
By contrast, the billion-dollar guided missile cruiser USS Vincennes, gunning for Iranians near the Strait of Hormuz, fought a battle against a swarm of Iranian gunboats in July 1988 that was inconclusive.
What was memorable about that day was that in the heat of the moment the Vincennes mistook a civilian airliner overhead for an Iranian warplane and shot it down, killing all 290 people aboard.
Of course much has changed in two decades, but the military situation in the gulf that was confusing and dangerous in 1988 is in fact much more complicated and dangerous now.
Back then, the United States was looking for a way to back Saddam Hussein in his war against Iran - without quite saying so. He was a thug, but the Iranians had humiliated the Reagan administration by training the Hizbullah shock troops that forced the U.S. out of Lebanon in 1984 and by revealing the scandalous arms-for-hostages deals the Reagan administration cut in 1986. So by 1987, the CIA (with Gates effectively running the show) started sharing satellite intelligence with Saddam that allowed him to fight more effectively against Iran.
By coincidence according to Wise's history, by conspiracy according to the Iranians, the big naval battle the U.S. launched against Iran's little fleet in April 1988 happened at exactly the same time that Saddam launched a massive offensive to retake the strategic Faw Peninsula. Thanks to his American-supplied intelligence and his huge arsenal of chemical weapons, he succeeded. Months later, after eight years of war, Iran admitted defeat.
Today, Saddam is no longer a problem. But Iraq is a huge one. The government the Americans helped install there is very close to the Iranians. So are the militias now killing American soldiers in Iraq almost every day. A safe bet about this dangerous situation is that any major confrontation with Iran on land or at sea will make life even more hellish for U.S. forces in Iraq.
Today, Iran is on its way to becoming a nuclear power. Whether it builds weapons, as the United States claims it will do, or keeps its technology purely peaceful, as it insists it intends, its nuclear knowledge changes all strategic calculations in the region.
But today the most volatile danger zone remains at sea because today the U.S. Navy and American ships face threats that overlap with those Iran might pose. Twenty years ago there was no Al Qaeda. Now there is. And while its most devastating attacks have been from the air, it also developed techniques for blowing up ships at sea. In October 2000, Al Qaeda hit the USS Cole in the Yemeni harbor of Aden, killing 17 sailors; in October 2002 it hit the French oil tanker Limburg, killing one crew member, injuring a dozen more and doing tens of millions of dollars worth of damage. That the mastermind of those two attacks, Abd al-Rahim al-Nashiri, was caught in late 2002 and is now in U.S. custody at Guantánamo is cause for some relief, but hardly complacency.
To protect against these threats, what are called "embarked security teams" of about a dozen U.S. military personnel are now put on American-flag merchant ships working with the Fifth Fleet from the Suez Canal to Pakistan and from Kuwait to the southern border of Kenya. But there are tens of thousands of little boats in those waters. Are they Al Qaeda? Are they Iranian Revoluionary Guards? Or just fishermen and merchants? To warn them away the American security teams try radio contact, loudspeakers, a flare, then .50 caliber rounds fired into the water in front of the boats or beside them. In March, one of those bullets hit and Egyptian peasant on the Suez Canal and killed him.
"The U.S. Navy has had 20 sailors lose their lives because of small boat attacks," says Cdr. Lydia Robertson, spokesperson for the Fifth Fleet operating out of Bahrain. That number includes those killed on the Cole and another three killed in an attack on Iraqi oil platforms in the northern gulf. "We train our commanding officers and crews to be ready. … That includes being aware of surroundings and putting together information in unique situations."
But as tensions mount, so does the potential for tragic mistakes, including accidental escalation and widening war. This isn't a prediction, of course. Just a reminder. |
| Military Man
User ID: 265749 (OP)
5/1/2008 1:35 PM | | Re: War Thread - The Official Israel v. Syria, Hezbollah, Iran, Hamas War Thread 2008. | Quote |
C'mon Military Man and Mossad Agent's Wife - what's the deal, you've let this thread drop. Olmert makes it sound as if peace is going to break out region wide instead of war. what are your sources telling you?? Quoting: Anonymous Coward 272356
Been very busy with security matters.
Peace will not break out this year! Sources reveal matters much differently than your perception. Israel will not wait until next year to take care of Iran. Whether the U.S. helps or not is absolutely dependent upon Iran's response to the U.S. in the next few weeks to back off on Iraq.
Multiple sources continue to agree that very terrible attacks from "all" terror groups in opposition of Israel may come any day through May 16th of this year.
I am still in the field so cannot communicate as often as I wish or on what I wish.
Confidence in no peace breaking out is 99% this year. I stand on the fact that Israel will be in an all-out war this year and I will not let this thread drop until the end of the year or a peace treaty is signed this year. |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 272356
5/1/2008 2:34 PM | | Re: War Thread - The Official Israel v. Syria, Hezbollah, Iran, Hamas War Thread 2008. | Quote |
Military Man - i don't really believe any long term peace is going to break out soon either. i guess what i really meant is that it looks like from reading the news wires that a short term cease fire with Hamas looks to be a real possbility. What do you think the prospects are of a short term cease fire bwtn Israel and Hamas?? |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 272356
5/1/2008 2:39 PM | | Re: War Thread - The Official Israel v. Syria, Hezbollah, Iran, Hamas War Thread 2008. | Quote |
Military Man - what are you hearing about this? Is Olmert on his way out the door?
'Olmert to be interrogated in his Jerusalem office on Friday'
[link to www.jpost.com]
Prime Minister Ehud Olmert will be investigated in his Jerusalem office on Friday by the police's Fraud Investigation Unit, according to a Channel 2 report Thursday night.
Prime Minister Ehud Olmert in Sunday's cabinet meeting.
Photo: AP
Slideshow: Pictures of the week The hastily-scheduled meeting was enabled after police received special authorization from Attorney-General Menahem Mazuz to summon Olmert within 48 hours.
It was not clear which investigation the surprise questioning was related to.
Two criminal investigations and one preliminary police probe are currently open against the prime minister.
In April 2007, Mazuz approved a criminal investigation into allegations that Olmert received favorable terms for the purchase of his home in Jerusalem's Rehov Cremieux in return for helping the contractor who sold it to him.
In October of that year, Mazuz opened a second criminal investigation into allegations of cronyism while Olmert led an investment center operated by the Industry, Trade and Labor Ministry; political appointments by Olmert via the Small and Medium Business Authority; and political appointments by Olmert throughout the Industry, Trade and Labor Ministry.
Attorney-General Menahem Mazuz.
Photo: Ariel Jerozolimski
The third probe is examining the decision by the Investment Center to grant an 'approved industry' status to Silicat Industries, Inc., which was represented by Olmert's former law partner and close friend, Uri Messer - a decision that saved the company $11 million as well as entitling it to a series of government benefits. |
| Military Man
User ID: 265749 (OP)
5/1/2008 2:55 PM | | Re: War Thread - The Official Israel v. Syria, Hezbollah, Iran, Hamas War Thread 2008. | Quote |
Military Man - i don't really believe any long term peace is going to break out soon either. i guess what i really meant is that it looks like from reading the news wires that a short term cease fire with Hamas looks to be a real possbility. What do you think the prospects are of a short term cease fire bwtn Israel and Hamas?? Quoting: Anonymous Coward 272356
I absolutely would not think that Israel will reach a deal with Hamas. Then again, if I was Israel and wanted some peace and quiet in the extreme "short term" to get through festivities this month, it would be beneficial to accept a 'lull'. All along, a lull would only mean, neither side will fire at the other until they decide to do otherwise, thus not bindng either party to any stringent agreement that could be deemed violated. Thus, attorneys may have worked out a 'lull' that is only dependent on each side deciding they will not fire on the other for a non specific period of time. Then, eahc day a few kassams could be fired and a few strikes on terorrists could still occur. Things really should get exciting in the coming weeks, lull or not. |
| Military Man
User ID: 265749 (OP)
5/1/2008 3:03 PM | | Re: War Thread - The Official Israel v. Syria, Hezbollah, Iran, Hamas War Thread 2008. | Quote |
Military Man - what are you hearing about this? Is Olmert on his way out the door?
Before I answer, I was watching "24" season five at the base last week. The Prime Minister is failing to act even though he knows of coming doom and now the AG has learned of this through Jack Bauer bitch-slapping Olmert and threatening to poke his eye out with a knife if he does not say where the hidden nerve gas is located. In the meantime, Iranian agents have an alternative plan of doom in exploding a nuke attached to a donkey cart in Old Jerusalem while Olmert knows this, he concedes it is a good idea as the assasinated President Parker is to be buried in Jeruslaem and he always wanted to be cremated.
Errrr . . .
In reality, this matter is due to his poor choices in trying to get to the top of the food chain through the use of his office. |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 272356
5/1/2008 3:08 PM | | Re: War Thread - The Official Israel v. Syria, Hezbollah, Iran, Hamas War Thread 2008. | Quote |
Military Man - what are you hearing about this? Is Olmert on his way out the door?
Before I answer, I was watching "24" season five at the base last week. The Prime Minister is failing to act even though he knows of coming doom and now the AG has learned of this through Jack Bauer bitch-slapping Olmert and threatening to poke his eye out with a knife if he does not say where the hidden nerve gas is located. In the meantime, Iranian agents have an alternative plan of doom in exploding a nuke attached to a donkey cart in Old Jerusalem while Olmert knows this, he concedes it is a good idea as the assasinated President Parker is to be buried in Jeruslaem and he always wanted to be cremated.
Errrr . . .
In reality, this matter is due to his poor choices in trying to get to the top of the food chain through the use of his office. Quoting: Military Man 265749
true enough, like most politicians - Olmert is slimy. but the real question is if Olmert ends up getting booted out of office, who takes his place?? Netanyahu?? If that happens, the whole landscape of the middle east changes and things could get real exciting in short order |
| Military Man
User ID: 265749 (OP)
5/1/2008 3:36 PM | | Re: War Thread - The Official Israel v. Syria, Hezbollah, Iran, Hamas War Thread 2008. | Quote |
If Olmert resigns, the whole government crumbles, and elections would take place, but I believe they may be 90 days out, thus inferring that someone temporarily takes his place from hsi same government - Barack? Who is more a military minded man whom would be less inclined to tolerate what is happenning. Then Bibi could step in and pull the strings. |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 426371
5/1/2008 4:04 PM | | Re: War Thread - The Official Israel v. Syria, Hezbollah, Iran, Hamas War Thread 2008. | Quote |
If Olmert resigns, the whole government crumbles, and elections would take place, but I believe they may be 90 days out, thus inferring that someone temporarily takes his place from hsi same government - Barack? Who is more a military minded man whom would be less inclined to tolerate what is happenning. Then Bibi could step in and pull the strings. Quoting: Military Man 265749
the premier takes over whom is tzipi livni......
he wont resign in the next 2 weeks...... |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 192909
5/1/2008 4:22 PM | | Re: War Thread - The Official Israel v. Syria, Hezbollah, Iran, Hamas War Thread 2008. | Quote |
If Olmert resigns, the whole government crumbles, and elections would take place, but I believe they may be 90 days out, thus inferring that someone temporarily takes his place from hsi same government - Barack? Who is more a military minded man whom would be less inclined to tolerate what is happenning. Then Bibi could step in and pull the strings. Quoting: Military Man 265749
If looks could kill! Go Bibi!
[link to home.nyc.rr.com] |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 222888
5/1/2008 8:28 PM | | Re: War Thread - The Official Israel v. Syria, Hezbollah, Iran, Hamas War Thread 2008. | Quote |
If Olmert resigns, the whole government crumbles, and elections would take place, but I believe they may be 90 days out, thus inferring that someone temporarily takes his place from hsi same government - Barack? Who is more a military minded man whom would be less inclined to tolerate what is happenning. Then Bibi could step in and pull the strings. Quoting: Military Man 265749 |
| Red Horse
User ID: 222888
5/1/2008 8:30 PM | | Re: War Thread - The Official Israel v. Syria, Hezbollah, Iran, Hamas War Thread 2008. | Quote |
If Olmert resigns, the whole government crumbles, and elections would take place, but I believe they may be 90 days out, thus inferring that someone temporarily takes his place from hsi same government - Barack? Who is more a military minded man whom would be less inclined to tolerate what is happenning. Then Bibi could step in and pull the strings. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 222888
Why not have a military coup? |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 262098
5/2/2008 2:39 AM | | Re: War Thread - The Official Israel v. Syria, Hezbollah, Iran, Hamas War Thread 2008. | Quote |
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