| | | Page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44, 45, 46, 47, 48, 49, 50, 51, 52, 53, 54, 55, 56, 57, 58, 59, 60, 61, 62, 63, 64, 65, 66, 67, 68, 69, 70, 71, 72, 73, 74, 75, 76, 77, 78, 79, 80, 81, 82, 83, 84, 85, 86, 87, 88, 89, 90, 91, 92, 93, 94, 95, 96, 97, 98, 99, 100, 101, 102, 103, 104, 105, 106, 107 | The smiley face killer-is he a technician with Trane?
| Anonymer Held
User ID: 454065
6/18/2008 11:40 AM | | Re: The smiley face killer-is he a technician with Trane? | Quote |
quote
Perhaps the workings of the gang between it's members are not completely understood, the exchange of information between it's parts, or for that fact just how many members there are. How many people does it take to make a gang? More than one? The space and time of the drownings may lend one to surmise that it would have to be more than one person.
unquote Quoting: 909nine 447579
-----------------
But it still makes no sense at all. Remember the news stories are told from the detective's point-of-view so I assume the terminology "loosely-knit gang" is something that is central to the detective-s own theory. This leads to one of my main concerns which is if they are loosely-knit how do they communicate that a murder actually took place? If they're loosely-knit you can't just take someone's word for it? Then you wouldn't be loosely-knit - you would know and rely on the person's word more than what is associated with a very good friendship. In other words, this type of belief system in someone else would bypass a normal good friendship and pass into the realm of a cement bond between individuals. Further, why the smiley faces? The article says they are bragging? Wouldn't this subvert the whole intention of this "loosely-knit gang" making it look like a suicide? quoteYou mean, they go to the extent of trying to make it look like a suicide and then sign their name making it into a murder again? That makes no sense. Plus if this "loosely-knit gang" were really only doing this for whatever purpose the gang was doing this for, why brag? You would be bragging to each other wouldn't you? I mean, it doesn't mean anything to anyone else does it? So why leave an obvious clue, oh, like .... YOUR GANG NAME!!!!!!!!! Stupid. Not to mention they must be communicating about the murders because the young men are not discovered immediately. Again, for the time period that the young men are not found, the other "loosely-knit gang" members just take the person's word that they did this? Why? If I just casually met someone, I certainly wouldn't believe anything they said. Which leads us into your next point which is:
--------------------------
quote
If I recall correctly, the two dectives have said that the smiley faces are 1/13 of the evidence and that the placing of wallets, cellphones, ect, is another part of that evidence. The placing of cellphones and wallets, to my recollection, is in the opposite direction of the location of the victim in order to mislead the police. Mislead the police in order to perhaps allow more time for the body to remain in the water and ensure evidence is destroyed, to mislead the conclusion as to why or how the person drowned?
unquote
------------------------
This touches on the point I made in my OP which was:
"Now why would cell phones and wallets being found far away from a victim's body make the police conclude it was an accidental death? I would be more inclined to think that if the wallet was ON the person and in place that the death was accidental? What is this pretzel logic being used? That a "loosely-connected gang" would scatter evidence because why again? To make a murder look like a suicide ..."
So why would they? Again they're working at cross-purposes. If say, victim A is found in the parking lot in their car slumped over the wheel, okay they may have just had some medical reason for dying. HOWEVER, if their possessions are scattered all over the parking lot .... ???????? Seems a really stupid thing to do and would make me suspicious if I were on a task force. Most men, even drunk, do not throw their wallets away ... in the woods yet. Doesn't happen.
------------------
quote
Point being, perhaps, is that the perps are 1. killing 2. misleading police 3. bragging about one or both of the previous two points. To whom are the perps bragging? The police, to each other, to society in general? Just questions.
unquote
---------------
But these are all the questions that the detectives are supposed to answer in having a theory!!!!! Why is this "loosely-knit gang" killing? How are they bragging about it? On the internet? How can they brag about it when the bodies are not discovered for weeks? You'd need proof to brag about something? Plus the smiley faces are far enough away from the bodies that you wouldn't necessarily see it when you see the body so what do "loosely-knit gang members" prowl the murders scene looking to see where their brethren painted a smiley face?
This whole theory is absolutely ridiculous. I think the retired detectives are trying and succeeding in supplementing their retirement pay. And if they have 12/13 more evidence, let's here something solid. Like this torture thing. How can someone be tortured for hours and have nothing show? And if nothing physical shows then how do you know they were tortured for hours? Not to mention the toxicology report. The blood alcohol level would be down dramatically after hours and hours. They wouldn't be drunk anymore.
This is just a very stupid theory thus far. |
| Ethan
User ID: 454005
6/18/2008 12:01 PM | | Re: The smiley face killer-is he a technician with Trane? | Quote |
I think there is a killer but the detectives might not be interpreting the evidence right.There are always serial killers out there and chances are some of them are dumping the bodies in water.Maybe a serial killer is leaving some of those smiley faces but even if they are that could just be to keep everyone confused.The important thing is that they made this case common knowledge so they deserve a lot of credit for that, and for the information they gathered.They really do not tell us enough so that that all their theories hold up under scrutiny ,but that does not mean necessarily they are wrong either. |
| mercury2
User ID: 454082
6/18/2008 12:06 PM
 | | Re: The smiley face killer-is he a technician with Trane? | Quote |
It does seem they have a lot to say without really saying very much.i was going to upload something on you tube but my camera malfuctioned right after i took a video..From what i can see from the graffiti in Middlebury vermont,whoever wrote that is admitting to killing Nick Garza and to have abducted someone from a grocery store in december and drugging them.there are the letters s-w-d-d-i-c-e-c-l-s-s...also you have own as the crown represents those letters.There is also the number 11.using those letters and number you can write the following
lsd
csi
11
dec
in episode 11 of csi a woman was abducted from a supermarket.
a name of someone abducted from a market in December was
Brian Carrick.replace the ian from Brian with the own
you now have Brown
replace the c in Carrick with the W.you now have Warrick
this leaves an s which stands for superman.
in episode 11 the detective looks through the microscope and comments "it looks like the planet krypton".
news story below
On December 20, 2002 Brian Carrick disappeared.
"I just had a gut feeling something was wrong," Carrick said.
But a missing 17-year-old didn't send off many alarms, until police made a gruesome discovery.
"Blood on the floor, blood on the boxes, blood splattered," recalls Johnsburg Police Chief Ken Rydberg.
That blood was found in a produce freezer at Val's Foods in Johnsburg where Brian worked as a stock boy.
A day after he disappeared, another worker discovered the pool of blood. But a manager who reportedly believed the blood came from meat and was unaware that Brian was missing, told him to mop it up. Quoting: Ethan
Interesting post Ethan. Keep them coming, who knows where it might take you. |
| ethan
User ID: 454005
6/18/2008 12:11 PM | | Re: The smiley face killer-is he a technician with Trane? | Quote |
episode 11 is in the season one cd.it would be disc 3 as each disc has 4 episodes.the i -15 murders would be the 11th episode that aired in the first year.
thanks mercury-you are very kind.someone is trying to upload the video for me .i have the memory card,but this computer does not have a slot for it.i am tenneguy on youtube |
| ethann
User ID: 454005
6/18/2008 12:18 PM | | Re: The smiley face killer-is he a technician with Trane? | Quote |
i do not want to sound like i am putting down the detectives or anything.i know sometimes i do not express myself vey good.i think there is too much we don't know to be able to judge them and their motives.what seems the strangest to me is one of them said people were being killed on the same day.who are those people?i see where people went missing on the same day,but on different years. |
| mercury2
User ID: 454082
6/18/2008 12:47 PM
| | Re: The smiley face killer-is he a technician with Trane? | Quote |
One of the creepiest things that came up on these threads as an association, was the existence of an MTV series called "Buzzkill" it may have only had a pilot episode. They said the premise was they would drive down to where a bunch of college kids were on spring break, and pick up a couple of really loaded guys in their van and drive them around, and videotape them in the back of the van as they came to and realized they had been abducted and paranoia set in?
The logo for the show was a smiley face in crosshairs.
Ethan did you catch that in the midst of all the postings on this subject here? I don't know which thread it was in. |
| ethan
User ID: 454005
6/18/2008 1:19 PM | | Re: The smiley face killer-is he a technician with Trane? | Quote |
no i must have missed it.i scan through the threads really fast .thanks i will make a note of it |
| mercury2
User ID: 326526
6/18/2008 2:10 PM
| | Re: The smiley face killer-is he a technician with Trane? | Quote |
Here's a blog entry about a guy who went missing in Sandpoint Idaho in 2004 and turned up in the lake a month later. He was a programmer for the site "Bookcrossing". I haven't seen this one mentioned before, I would have noticed because of the location, I would like to visit Sandpoint, the Amtrak Empire Builder goes through there and I know some people in the area.
Anyway here's the article, the guy's blog, the Blackwell Brief has some other articles about the Smiley Face Killers. I have to go and see how I got on this page! I don't know where I first saw Danny Clune mentioned this morning. Must look at the history and figure it out.
Article follows, citing 'fair use':
Danny Clune: Smiley Face Victim?
Danny Clune disappeared from the Long Bridge Bar and Grill in Sandpoint, Idaho on November 6, 2004 just before 2:00 AM. He was wearing a blue hooded sweatshirt and blue knit ski cap.
Police detectives, family and friends have searched the surrounding areas. They don't believe Danny wandered off alone.
Danny had recently moved to Sandpoint from New York City, and according to his family and friends, he loved his new small town life and was looking forward to settling down.
Friday, November 5th, Danny and a few of his friends went to the Long Bridge Bar and Grill outside of Sandpoint. Just before the bar closed, he and his friends began to regroup for the car ride home.
The last time Danny was seen, he was looking for a friend and retrieving his blue hooded sweatshirt from the bar at around 1:45 AM. Cell phone records show Danny tried to call one of his close friends at 1:57 AM. This was the last call made from his cell phone to date.
His friends waited about 15 minutes in the parking lot but did not see him. Thinking he may have decided to to walk home, they drove toward Sandpoint, stopping to see if he was among the pedestrians on the Long Bridge walkway, but he was nowhere to be found.
December 17, 2004, a duck hunter discovered a badly decomposed body in an Idaho river. December 22, 2004, dental records were used to positively identify the body as Danny.
Danny's case is still open.
The family has set up the following web site FindDanny.com
Brian Blackwell -- BrianBlackwell.com
[link to blackwellbrief.blogspot.com]
Licensed private investigator
And now I remember where I saw this case mentioned, it was at the "Footprints at the River's Edge" blog, I went to see if it had been updated. |
| Anonymer Held
User ID: 454267
6/18/2008 7:28 PM | | Re: The smiley face killer-is he a technician with Trane? | Quote |
Did much more reading on this subject and I do believe something is at work here more than "bad luck" or "accidents." The question is what? There has to be a mastermind. How else are victims chosen? These kids are not always drunk - nor alone. How are they so easily separated from their friends? Why do they head to the woods? Are they in a group or think they're becoming members of a group? It would explain why they change their plans so quickly and do what they're told. I'm saying this because one guy was headed from the bar to "visit" his girlfriend, but ended up in the woods? Was he abducted or did say a trusted upper classman or member of a group he wanted to join tell him to "go with me." Then there's the curious phone call made by Josh Snell:
[link to answers.yahoo.com]
"In a phone call with a friend "he said he was scared, that he was hiding in a brushy area, that he was running from someone, that he didn’t know who it was or how he was going to get away. (He said) he didn’t do anything, but he was terrified and he was scared for his life,” Jon Snell says."
Okay, so he's scared and hiding in a brushy area and running from someone that he didn't know and he calls a friend? Wouldn't that sort of be a 911 call? Like "Hello, there's a psychotic killer after me and I don't know where I am?" And why did he say he "didn't do anything?" Was this in response to the friend's questioning of him as to what happened? Like were you in a bar fight or something? Or what did you do and he says, "Nothing?" Not sure. Just find it that he's hiding in a brushy area and is scared for his life and doesn't know what he did and he calls a friend who promptly does NOT call anyone in the position of helping Josh and Josh himself is passive in not calling anyone, but wastes the one phone call that he may be able to make in calling a friend and NOT 911? Show of hands: you're in a life-and-death situation and you call a friend? I guess if your friend is a superhero I'd call a friend, but if you need to be found and helped, I'd pretty much opt for the police. So why doesn't Josh? And even if he did, he wouldn't beg him to call the authorities because he didn't have time cause he's hiding his ass from some crazy person?
Very strange, but the thing working against these kids being told by someone they know to go into the woods is that some of them are just visiting locations. It sort of works against someone they know being there. Except in the case of that Iraqi vet, he meets up with a fellow Iraqi vet who he sorts of bonds with. Not saying the guy had anything to do with anything. Just saying that sometimes people you know or think you know do show up unexpectedly, but how are victims chosen then? If someone is just in town for one of two days??? Someone in the bar or a lookout? Makes it a pretty big circle of kids to be involved in this.
I don't know. Very confusing, but agree something very loopy is occurring here.
There was a very strange post at River's Footprints. Has it been posted before? Don't know, but here's part of it. Concerns the death of Willie Jacobson:
[link to footprintsattheriversedge.blogspot.com]
"So, why does Willie Jacobson not make it home one evening? Answer: He is given exculpatory aid by people who have sworn allegiance to the Purple and all it stands for, now and in the future." |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 433235
6/18/2008 8:39 PM | | Anonymer Held
User ID: 454369
6/18/2008 11:33 PM | | Re: The smiley face killer-is he a technician with Trane? | Quote |
Quoting: Anonymous Coward 433235
That's extremely interesting. Unfortunately, I can't wrap my mind around it - forget about trying to figure it out.
Did find this really stupid, strange thing. It's a total coincidence. Goes to show you that some things are just a coincidence. Was doing random searches to try to possibly get another angle on this Smiley Face murder thing. The Watchmen came up and the Smiley Face bio came up and David Berkowitz came up. There was even a site
[link to thutherthought.blogspot.com]
that gave a little background on him, his murder spree - The Son of Sam and a police mugshot. It links his inmate number with smiley emoticon unicode values:
--------------------quote:
David Berkowitz inmate number is 78-A-1976. Numerology posits that as 7+8+1+9+7+6=38 3+8=11. So Berkowitz is '11'.
If we look at the Unicode values for smiley face emoticons, we see an interesting synch. Here are the codes for making smiley faces on a your computes:
☹ 0x2639
☺ 0x263a
☻ 0x263b
Note the numerology in those numbers.
2+6+3=11
----------------------unquote
Okay, no big whup. Interesting sure. Coincidental fer shur. So then I do another search and find the Smiley Face was used for another game - BERZERK, but for some reason "son of sam" was coming up in the search also. So I first read about the game:
[link to kotaku.com]
------------quote
The game was distinctive for many reasons, not the least of which is being the first game to have a talking feature. In the game you play a "humanoid" who is being chased around the maze levels by angry killer robots. Touching the walls, robots or getting shot by robots spelled instant death. ... But you better be quick with your killing or along comes Evil Otto, a sort of smiley faced orange that would bounce around and threaten to kill you. Evil Otto was indestructible and would try to block your escape to the next level.
As I mentioned before, Berzerk was the fist arcade game to introduce a talking function. ... If you allowed Evil Otto to chase you out of the level before all the robots were killed, you would be taunted with the ever insulting "Chicken, fight like a robot.
------------unquote
For some reason I thought of the Josh Snell's phone call and how this angry guy was chasing him and terrifying him and ... was this guy blocking his escape also?
Then I remember that the Son of Sam was supposed to be somewhere in the text. I read down the site and didn't see what the heck it had to do with the Son of Sam so I did a 'find' function and indeed did find the phrase nestled in the comment section.
The entire sentence reads:
-------------quote
In the 90's, Data East sold their pinball division to Sega, who sold it to Gary Stern (son of Sam Stern, founder of the original Stern), who renamed it Stern Pinball.
----------unquote
Even though the sale of the pinball had absolutely nothing to do with David Berkowitz, oddly enough there is the phrase:
"son of Sam"
????????????
I'm just saying ..... |
| mercury2
User ID: 454275
6/19/2008 12:32 AM
| | Re: The smiley face killer-is he a technician with Trane? | Quote |
These references above to people maybe being chased and pursued into the water made me think of this especially creepy thing again, where this kid was in the water and they were trying to get him to come out and he said "you have no idea what's going on" and kept backing away into the water til he was lost.
I posted it on page 5 of the other thread (is a serial killer stalking college age men - something like that)
It's from the "Footprints at the River's Edge" blog:
09/12/04: Jesse Miller, 21, Eau Claire, WI
Witnesses spotted 21-year old Jesse Miller on the shoreline beneath the Lake Street bridge at 3:26 a.m. They flagged down a police car and told officers the man's intentions were unclear. Police began to question him, and upon doing so, Miller began moving further into the river until they lost sight of him. According to the report, Miller told police, "You have no idea what's going on" before he moved further into the water. There is no evidence the man was under the influence of alcohol or that it was an act of suicide, said Tim Golden, detective sergeant of the Eau Claire Police Department.
Investigation
Police later determined that Miller had been out with his friends on Water Street prior to the incident. Volunteers searched the shoreline and found Miller's clothing, which consisted of socks, shoes, boxer shorts, pants and a shirt.
Recovery
Jesse's body was found Sept. 12, 2004 in the Chippewa River. He had a blood-alcohol content of 0.22, which is above the 0.08 legal driving limit in Wisconsin. |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 426043
6/19/2008 1:44 AM | | Re: The smiley face killer-is he a technician with Trane? | Quote |
Quoting: Anonymous Coward 433235
Weird coincidence you posted that link - the 2nd post is from the person who said that her cousin was one of the victims, Nick Garza. |
| antihero
User ID: 453211
6/19/2008 4:08 AM | | Re: The smiley face killer-is he a technician with Trane? | Quote |
Ever read the Watchmen? Hurm.
I'd like to do some personal justice against some of these serial killers.
They come in all forms.
I would really like to get at them.
Show them what a scruffle with a real... nigs like.
One of these days... one of these days. I'm gonna go crazy and might just have the means to do something about these things. cause I know the police aint shit. |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 454565
6/19/2008 8:54 AM | | Re: The smiley face killer-is he a technician with Trane? | Quote |
Maybe the gov is trying out a new drug( that is being slipped in their drink} that makes the victim think they need to find water for some reason, then they fall in and drown! Ok big strech huh! |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 454565
6/19/2008 9:11 AM | | Re: The smiley face killer-is he a technician with Trane? | Quote |
This CANNOT be a coindence, Why aren't other college men drowning in other parts of the country where there are also popular colleges? This has to be the work of a couple sickos or more, are the police investigating these bodies good enough at the autophies? If it was my son, i'd have them do every possible test for drugs, etc. From my understanding, some of these autophies just said drowning and DIDN'T look for other drugs such as date rape etc. If it was a girl that would be the first drug they'd look for or any other altering drug!!!!!!!!!!!! What about alochol could someone actually force it down a victim with say a bong or gun to the head to force them to drink until they pass out, then throw them into bodies of water where they drown? |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 454565
6/19/2008 9:27 AM | | Re: The smiley face killer-is he a technician with Trane? | Quote |
Have the police confiscated these mens computers to see whom they might have talked to via internet? I wonder if all these men might have talked to the same person or been on the same website????????? Maybe that's how they choose their victim? They defintely need to check that out! I thought i read in an article that these detectives might have an idea of persons related to this but wouldn't say to jepordize the investigation? Are they watching a certain website i wonder? |
| ethan
User ID: 454675
6/19/2008 12:54 PM | | Re: The smiley face killer-is he a technician with Trane? | Quote |
good work on that number 11 connection .it is a number i keep seeing more frequently.Brian Carrick(was abducted in a grocery store) is the eleventh child in his family.Elena de la Garza was in 11 episodes of CSI Miami. |
| Anonymer Held
User ID: 454676
6/19/2008 12:55 PM | | Re: The smiley face killer-is he a technician with Trane? | Quote |
These references above to people maybe being chased and pursued into the water made me think of this especially creepy thing again, where this kid was in the water and they were trying to get him to come out and he said "you have no idea what's going on" and kept backing away into the water til he was lost. Quoting: mercury2
But doesn't that mean that the victims are part of the game? I mean, if I were being pursued by a psycho killer and the police showed up on the scene - I would jump into their arms and give their faces a tongue bath with my tongue! I'd be that grateful, but these kids? Josh gets ONE phone call maybe and he calls a friend? Come on!!! What else went on in that conversation? Why the hell didn't he call 911 if he was being terrorized by a stranger? And then Jesse ... ???? He stays in the water???? Wanders AWAY from help???
The only thing that makes sense is some kind of game is running or initiation or some group membership thing where these victims are involved up their eyeballs. That's why they desert their friends and go off with people. Must be a code word is used or a fellow member says a name he's familiar with and the guy goes off with them. Otherwise you wouldn't have so many kids leaving a bar WHERE THEIR FRIENDS ARE to wander off to the woods and drown in a river.
What's the significance of a river? Why are they safe there? Or do they need to stand in the river? Seems a lot of serial killings involved water or were around water now that I think of it. There's even some Echols case where these poor little kids were mutilated and ended up in the water. And it can't be that the kids are just held down in the water or forced physically to stand in the water because Jesse was there and stayed there.
Makes little sense without knowing the game and I doubt it would make much sense then. The stupidity of showing that much loyalty to people that ultimately kill you.
But another thing, the college kids that are in on this game must know that murder is involved when told to go to the woods to meet Evil Otto. |
| ethan
User ID: 454675
6/19/2008 1:00 PM | | Re: The smiley face killer-is he a technician with Trane? | Quote |
something very weird is going on.there is no doubt in my mind about that. |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 455112
6/20/2008 9:03 AM | | Re: The smiley face killer-is he a technician with Trane? | Quote |
Any new missing college students? |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 455112
6/20/2008 9:06 AM | | Re: The smiley face killer-is he a technician with Trane? | Quote |
I think we should keep this thread going as long as possible, good investigative work going on here!!!!!!!!!!! |
| Ethan
User ID: 455137
6/20/2008 9:52 AM | | Re: The smiley face killer-is he a technician with Trane? | Quote |
These references above to people maybe being chased and pursued into the water made me think of this especially creepy thing again, where this kid was in the water and they were trying to get him to come out and he said "you have no idea what's going on" and kept backing away into the water til he was lost.
But doesn't that mean that the victims are part of the game? I mean, if I were being pursued by a psycho killer and the police showed up on the scene - I would jump into their arms and give their faces a tongue bath with my tongue! I'd be that grateful, but these kids? Josh gets ONE phone call maybe and he calls a friend? Come on!!! What else went on in that conversation? Why the hell didn't he call 911 if he was being terrorized by a stranger? And then Jesse ... ???? He stays in the water???? Wanders AWAY from help???
The only thing that makes sense is some kind of game is running or initiation or some group membership thing where these victims are involved up their eyeballs. That's why they desert their friends and go off with people. Must be a code word is used or a fellow member says a name he's familiar with and the guy goes off with them. Otherwise you wouldn't have so many kids leaving a bar WHERE THEIR FRIENDS ARE to wander off to the woods and drown in a river.
What's the significance of a river? Why are they safe there? Or do they need to stand in the river? Seems a lot of serial killings involved water or were around water now that I think of it. There's even some Echols case where these poor little kids were mutilated and ended up in the water. And it can't be that the kids are just held down in the water or forced physically to stand in the water because Jesse was there and stayed there.
Makes little sense without knowing the game and I doubt it would make much sense then. The stupidity of showing that much loyalty to people that ultimately kill you.
But another thing, the college kids that are in on this game must know that murder is involved when told to go to the woods to meet Evil Otto. Quoting: Anonymer Held 454676
i think the killers in many instances may all ready know the victim and may have even become friends with them.i could see it being part of some kind of initiation or ritual but i don't see where there is any hard evidence to prove it.It needs to be looked at because it could lead to a killer,but i doubt the police will do this because they are probably treating this as another run of the mill type incident. What is going on is probably so bizzarre that they are ignoring important clues because the crimes are so out of the ordinary . |
| Upstate Mama
User ID: 269684
6/20/2008 9:52 AM | | Re: The smiley face killer-is he a technician with Trane? | Quote |
I have been reading the posts from The Footprints at The Rivers Edge, and I came across the post where it spoke of an order of heirachy, insignia's and the color purple. I also read that Nick Garza was traced by scent dogs by frat houses on the Middlebury campus. Could it be a induction into a fraternity? Maybe we need to look at the Middlebury campus frats where Nick went missing and look for the color purple and investigate from there- How do we get a list of what frats are on the college campuses in Middlebury and lets look at the Ithaca campus where Willie Jacobson also disappeared-I am going to also post this at the Rivers Edge Blog- Trane did not have a contract with Middlebury Ethan- That was in another blog- |
| Anonymer Held
User ID: 453622
6/20/2008 10:10 AM | | Re: The smiley face killer-is he a technician with Trane? | Quote |
I have been reading the posts from The Footprints at The Rivers Edge, and I came across the post where it spoke of an order of heirachy, insignia's and the color purple. I also read that Nick Garza was traced by scent dogs by frat houses on the Middlebury campus. Could it be a induction into a fraternity? Maybe we need to look at the Middlebury campus frats where Nick went missing and look for the color purple and investigate from there- How do we get a list of what frats are on the college campuses in Middlebury and lets look at the Ithaca campus where Willie Jacobson also disappeared-I am going to also post this at the Rivers Edge Blog- Trane did not have a contract with Middlebury Ethan- That was in another blog- Quoting: Upstate Mama 269684
Upstate mama -
While I agree that the loyalty (purple) figures into why these guys ditch their friends and girlfriend/booty call to wander in the woods, think it goes way beyond JUST a fraternity initiation. Yes, pledges would drop everything and go with a member from the group you want to join, but this involves police and some sort of other game - a game with ties as strong as becoming a "brother" to a group. That means keeping silent about what was going on.
At one of the scenes that Red-faced, tongue-hanging out, X in the forehead Smiley Face had "evil hoppy" next to it.
[link to ac360.blogs.cnn.com]
Evil hoppy - from what I could learn from the web and site gleaning - is a reference to Tolkien. Tolkien - from what I understand - is WILDLY popular on college campuses. So does this figure into the game? Did some google searches for Berzerk and smiley faces. Google listed the results and one result was something like "you don't know what you're getting into." When I tried to click on it, the page was not there. Tried the cached version also, but it wasn't to be found. Would love to know what that conversation was about.
Oh, the other thing is that I noticed that a couple of the young men were murdered on Halloween. I started thinking about how a carved pumpkin resembles a smiley face. Sure enough there were many links of people carving pumpkins and turning them into an "evil hoppy." |
| Anonymer Held
User ID: 455325
6/20/2008 4:06 PM | | Re: The smiley face killer-is he a technician with Trane? | Quote |
Okay, went out and thought that maybe we needed to think logically about the elements involved to determine what is going on. Perhaps logic is the wrong word. Maybe 'structure' would be better. In other words, how is the game structured and what do the elements mean in the confines of the game.
The basic outline of berzerk (if it is a version of berzerk) are this:
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[link to everything2.com]
quote
The game
Berzerk consists of many levels which are each a single room, populated by robots and walls. Everything is deadly, touching anything (wall, robot, laser shot, your own shot, Evil Otto, etc) will kill you. The object is to shoot all the robots, and then escape out of the room through one of the doorways. You must be quick in your mission, or else Evil Otto will appear (he is a big bouncing happy face, that kills everything that moves). He will move relentlessly towards you, speeding up after all the robots are killed. You cannot kill Evil Otto, you must instead escape to another level.
unquote
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Okay, now that we know this what does "the river" signify?
1. The River. Is it a boundary? Is it a doorway? What do we know about the river? We know two things:
a. Josh Snell said he was hiding in the brush from a stranger that was making him fear for his life. Does this mean he was avoiding the water?
b. Jesse Miller (hope I got the young man's name right) was seemingly "rescued" whilst standing in the river, but he refused to be rescue saying that the officials "had no idea what was going on." Does this mean he was already dead? Is the river a boundary that he touched?
2. If the river is a boundary, is the Evil Otto painted on various objects to be avoided? If this is a game like Berzerk that the participans are playing, they are playing this in the woods in the dead of night. Feeling around for the escape hatch would seem in line and so would accidentally putting your hand on Evil Otto.
3. The river is blue. Blue would seem to fit in with the colors of the game. There is also a purple.
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[link to www.arcade-history.com]
quote
The player controls the 'Humanoid' (colored green for player 1 and purple for player 2) and must negotiate a number of robot-filled rooms; each with up to as many as eleven, laser-firing enemy robots. The Humanoid can be killed either by a single shot from a robot, by running into a robot, by running into a wall of the maze, or by being touched by the player's nemesis, 'Evil Otto'.
unquote
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4. Once the player is 'driven' into the river and knows the game is over, does he start to drink on his own volition? Is it thought to be more humane to get him loaded? Does he numb himself with his buddies for what is to come? Does this account for the high blood alcohol level?
Again, what does the river signify within the confines of the game? We have very little info to go on except for those two interactions.
Also, David Berkowitz is known affectionately as David "Berzerkowitz." Well, he is out of his mind, but is it a reference to the game also?
Think we should figure out what the elements that we know about mean and maybe something will make sense. Or maybe, figure out what game contains these elements? Also whether it makes sense that these victims are active participants in the game, or unwilling participants. It seems a key point. Given Josh Snell and Jesse Miller's behavior, I would think it would be that they at least knew something. Does anyone know if Josh's friend called the police after being told by Josh that he was being chased by a stranger and feared for his life? If not, why? Did his friend think he was drunk? Further we have Chris Thiem running from the police as well:
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[link to footprintsattheriversedge.blogspot.com]
quote
After leaving a campus party, Christopher S. Thiem, 19, one of two men reportedly flagged down a policeman "as if seeking assistance." When the officer responded, Thiem reportedly jumped a fence, ran to a neighboring house and pounded on the door, then took off running. The police officer radioed in for help, and Thiem was then pursued on foot through some yards and a field near a railroad trestle, where he began to walk across. The bridge was not equipped with a pedestrian sidewalk and was dangerous to walk on even in the daylight, so the police did not continue the pursuit. The policeman was the last person to see Christopher alive.
unquote
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5. So they flag down police and then Chris Thiem avoids them? Do they make police part of the game? Police - blue? Blue bots something that can kill them if they touch them?
6. One last point, we know that gunplay is prevalent in games such as Berzerk. So where does the gunplay come in? How does the robot "hit" the player? What if this was another reason for the water? Suppose water play or shooting with water were part of the game? The person would be soaked which would cause suspicion if they weren't found in the water, but if they were their clothes being soaked with water would seem quite natural. |
| 909nine
User ID: 447579
6/20/2008 9:22 PM | | Re: The smiley face killer-is he a technician with Trane? | Quote |
Ethan, there may be some validity to the Trane theory, well to the extent that a local company here in Athens, Ohio called Sunpower has done research on Trane Active Cromer Cycle Development and Performance Testing. Found something on the net from 1998, the same year that Keith Noble drowned. Here's a link,
[link to www.acee.org]
I know over the years that Sunpower has been in the local media for their efforts at energy efficiency in various mechanical arenas and solar power. |
| 909nine
User ID: 447579
6/20/2008 9:34 PM | | Re: The smiley face killer-is he a technician with Trane? | Quote |
Google, trane+sunpower+athens+ohio, and quite a few interesting hits. |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 439342
6/20/2008 9:37 PM | | Re: The smiley face killer-is he a technician with Trane? | Quote |
I think there is a killer but the detectives might not be interpreting the evidence right.There are always serial killers out there and chances are some of them are dumping the bodies in water.Maybe a serial killer is leaving some of those smiley faces but even if they are that could just be to keep everyone confused.The important thing is that they made this case common knowledge so they deserve a lot of credit for that, and for the information they gathered.They really do not tell us enough so that that all their theories hold up under scrutiny ,but that does not mean necessarily they are wrong either. Quoting: Ethan 454005
Ethan, you re a fucking amateur!!! i mean.., are you for real or are you a "facilitator" "troll" "paid by word?????"
take your looking glass and shuv it up your ass!! |
| 909nine
User ID: 447579
6/20/2008 11:07 PM | | Re: The smiley face killer-is he a technician with Trane? | Quote |
hmmmm interesting! |
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