damnit i cant edit my posts i ment to say he said you "cant" dig it out of the ground.
Quoting: Grower 429597
When Roger Billings was doing his (working) hydrogen powered buses for Los Angeles (two buses ran for a year or better on pure hydrogen), I found out by following the research that the cheapest sources of hydrogen were coal and natural gas.
So, I figured at that time it was a dead end. Starting with coal and natural gas you might as well produce LPG or propane which both burn really clean and are very easy on engines.
Anyway, those hydrogen sources do come from the ground.
Undersea "methane ice" - I forget the spelling of the correct word - something like calthrate - anyway that stuff is plentiful but collecting it is a major engineering problem.
Seems like one solution would be some kind of underwater processing plant where LPG or propane would be the output product which would then be pumped to the surface. (Probably no real pump needed as thermal gradients developed by the process would provide energy to cause the liquid fuel to rise in pipes.)
Something else to think about.
Evil Twin Senior Forum Moderator User ID: 430139 5/8/2008 9:25 PM
Re: Alternative Fuels-Using WATER to convert engine to a hybrid DIY!!
Page 13 of an 18 page thread, posted September 2007 QUOTE
"It would be worth responding in writing to the university's comments, stating that the Faraday supposed maximum has been proven to be incorrect, as electrolyzers built by Bob Boyce have achieved 216% Faraday on straight DC, and the Shigeta Hasebe DC electrolysis patent US 4,105,528 of 1978 shown at www.panaceauniversity.org/PatE14.pdf shows laboratory records of 1,000% the Faraday supposed maximum.
Further, the Faraday maximum quoted in the university correspondence relates to DC electrolysis, while the system to be demonstrated is not DC electrolysis but is pulsed water-splitting which is a completely separate system which draws additional energy from the surrounding environment. When pulsed in a similar way, the Bob Boyce electrolyzer operates as a water-splitter and has measured efficiencies in the 1,000% Faraday range.
So while it is understandable that the two entirely separate systems have been confused on this occasion, it is necessary to point out that there is no direct connection between the two, and that due to the intake of additional environmental energy, the Law of Conservation of Energy is not broken.
It is also worth noting that Paul Zigouras has recently demonstrated a marine engine made by his company Zigouras Racing, operating with 200 HP of excess energy, run solely on the gases produced by splitting water with power produced by the engine electrics. This would not be possible with Faraday DC electrolysis, but has been demonstrated to be perfectly possible with water-splitting using high-quality pulsed signals.
Paul Zigouras Infos
The information to date is:
1. The unit takes water in at one end and hydroxy gas exits the entire open end of the cell at the far end. No water makes it as far as the exit.
2. The small unit has 20 to 30 plates 2-inches high, 8 inches long, the larger unit has 36 plates 3-inches high, 10 inches long.
3. The plates are 1/16 inch thick 316-grade or 318-grade stainless steel sandblasted with 60 grit alum oxide and spaced 0.025 inches apart (0.635 mm).
4. The voltage applied to the cell with the engine running is 13.8 volts.
5. The unit generates an output signal which is a very pure "perfect" square wave
6. The current is 190 amps for 5 gallons dissociated per minute
7. The oscillator frequency is 40 kHz
8. Paul says: "Two or three output transistors just will not hack it, you have to think big".
9. The COP of the cell is between 5 and 10
10. He started with plans from Kevin of WaterForFuel.com and modified them. I have Kevin's data on order but I don't those plans really matter any more with all the extra information received today.
11. He uses a standard MSD 200-amp high performance alternator to supply the current via the battery.
This is actualy not how Meyer did it as his electronics found and auto-locked on to the resonant point of the cell and subsequently tracked it. Paul's design is a long way from being perfect as most of the power does not produce hydroxy gas and the consequential loss of vast amounts of water makes it somewhat impractical except for stationary generators beside an unlimited source of water.
His unit with a less aggressive output drive, placed in a conventional electrolyser box like shown in D16.pdf, could well be a working solution.
holy shit 190 amps? that has got to be one HUGE cell!!! like 100 plates + or thats instant steam not water LOL. To achieve 190 amps you would have to add another alternator and battery which is no big deal for 200 HP. Imagine a water powered boat... you would NEVER run out of fuel.
Another option I have not yet seen in print (probably has been in print - I just didn't see it) would be to bolt an extra higher voltage alternator to your engine.
All those newer vehicles with serpentine belts would be tough to do this with, but older vehicles had extra room and v-belts could be bought in many lengths.
An alternator built for small standby generators is not significantly larger than regular auto alternators.
Another option I have not yet seen in print (probably has been in print - I just didn't see it) would be to bolt an extra higher voltage alternator to your engine.
All those newer vehicles with serpentine belts would be tough to do this with, but older vehicles had extra room and v-belts could be bought in many lengths.
An alternator built for small standby generators is not significantly larger than regular auto alternators.
Quoting: Anonymous Coward 408793
Absolutely. Ive seen a truck with 5 extra alternators hooked up for a 20,000 watt stereo system. That fucking thing was nuts... Ive never seen or heard anything like it... You could actually see sound waves... It made metal look like water...
Anonymous Coward User ID: 430171 5/8/2008 11:40 PM
Re: Alternative Fuels-Using WATER to convert engine to a hybrid DIY!!
IF YOU GUYS ARENT CAREFUL ....YOU AS A COLLECTIVE MIND WILL SOLVE THIS DIY HYDROGEN POWER FOR CARS AND END UP SOLVING THE MAKEBELIEVE ENERGY CRISIS THEREBY RENDERING ENERGY AFFORDABLE AND EFFICIENT AND CLEAN AND ALSO SOLVING THE ECONOMIC COLLAPSE IN THE WEST... BUT ALSO UNDERMINING TPTB AND THEIR STRANGLEHOLD ON POWER VIA ENERGY AND ECONOMICS..... THIS IS A VERY DANGEROUS SITUITION FOR US ALL AS YOU MAY RECALL,,, THE GUY WITH THE WATER POWERED DUNEBUGGY IN 198O'S WHO DIED SHORTLY AFTER SHAIRING HIS SECRETS WITH THE PENTAGON BRASS.... IT MIGHT BE WORTH LOOKING AT HIS PATIENTS AND SEEING HOW HE WAS ABLE TO GET ABUNDANT HYDROGEN FROM DIRECTLY CRACKING WATER FOR ENERGY THAT HE NEEDED NO FUEL / GASOLINE AT ALL. I THINK HE WAS USING ULTRASOUND HIGH FREQUENCY IN THE WATER CHAMBER AND EXOTIC CATALISTS TO HELP CRACK THE HOH MOLECULE.
NOBODY WANTS TO UPSET THE BALLANCE OF POWER BY SOLVING THIS PROBLEM FOR ALL OF HUMANITY .........DO THEY?
Quoting: NOBODY 115601
WHY MUST AOL-TARDS TYPE ALL IN CAPS?
Anonymous Coward User ID: 430335 5/9/2008 9:04 AM
Re: Alternative Fuels-Using WATER to convert engine to a hybrid DIY!!
Since the water molecule is Bipolar, meaning that even though it has a net neutral electrical charge, because of the nature of the Hydrogen and Oxygen bonding, possess complimentary charges on each side of the molecule. Because of this dipolarity it will react to external electrical potentials, aligning itself relative to the field.
You can try an experiment to demonstrate this prperty. If you are in a low humidity environment use a plastic comb and comb your dry hair several times, then hold the comb next to a small continuous stream of water from a faucet, notice that the stream will be deflected away from the electrostatically charged comb.
This property along with the fact that in its pure form it is an insulator, allows it to be used as a capacitive dielectric material. If a high voltage DC pulse is applied to the plates of a pure water dielectric capacitor the individual molecules will be physically stretched from the plate potentials. If circuitry is employed to not allow physical electrical current to flow through the water and the pulses are increased in amplitude at the proper rate, specifically at a harmonic of the natural physical resonance of the Hydrogen and Oxygen bonds, the molecules will literally be split into their individual components.
This is the embodiment of the Stanley Meyer design.
I really wish I could get up off my butt and build one like this. If we could keep this thread going perhaps it might motivate me. It is encouraging to me that so many here have tried at least any form of this process to adapt for use on vehicles, even if initially there is only a marginal improvement in economy it is a step in the right direction.
Thanks Guys!
scimitar I Just wanna know User ID: 373365 5/9/2008 9:17 AM
Re: Alternative Fuels-Using WATER to convert engine to a hybrid DIY!!
You can get rolls in widths from 24 inch up to 60 inches wide.
Quoting: Anonymous Coward 430335
Hey thanks for the links to obtain stainless!
Yeah I was considering scouring a scrap yard but here in Chicago these guys really protect their metal yards from scavengers. ive even email a few to see if they would sell me some scrap to no avail! I will get some! lol
I am uploading a video right now showing the simple supplies I bought and a first test of HHO generation. It was very cool. I am impressed with the small scale of my test rig and how much HHO was coming off it!
Stay tuned as soon as the video is done uploading I will post a link to it ;-)
LOL holy shit dude! those bolts put out some nice size gas bubbles
Quoting: Grower 429597
LOL I know I was a little shocked to! I dont know if it was because I am using 18 volts or what, this weekend Im going to use the same tester and put it to 12 v to see if its the same or not! Im wondering why it was so much. Also I was going to try multiple bolts + and - and maybe even go a step further and attach a lead to the top and bottom of the bolts.
Heres one that really got me thinking. The only plates that are attached to the electricity by wire is the middle and the 2 outsides. You can see he made a Slow burning HHO out of it.The other plates are being charged by the electricity flowing through the water/electrolyte
Grower User ID: 429597 5/9/2008 1:30 PM
Re: Alternative Fuels-Using WATER to convert engine to a hybrid DIY!!
Cool!
I too am surprised at how much output you got with the bolts.
I was farting around yesterday with my rig and killed my 20 year old automotive battery charger, so I scrounged up an 18 VDC/1.5 amp transformer. I got a fair amount more production, and a lot more heat with the higher voltage.
My electrolyte solution was at 125 degrees within about 15 minutes.
Grower User ID: 429597 5/9/2008 1:43 PM
Re: Alternative Fuels-Using WATER to convert engine to a hybrid DIY!!
Cool!
I too am surprised at how much output you got with the bolts.
I was farting around yesterday with my rig and killed my 20 year old automotive battery charger, so I scrounged up an 18 VDC/1.5 amp transformer. I got a fair amount more production, and a lot more heat with the higher voltage.
My electrolyte solution was at 125 degrees within about 15 minutes.
Quoting: Evil Twin
Yes more tests to come, I didnt have much time to tinker but this weekend I will. It might be the voltage increase then..very interesting.
Anonymous Coward User ID: 233362 5/9/2008 2:14 PM
Re: Alternative Fuels-Using WATER to convert engine to a hybrid DIY!!
Since the water molecule is Bipolar, meaning that even though it has a net neutral electrical charge, because of the nature of the Hydrogen and Oxygen bonding, possess complimentary charges on each side of the molecule. Because of this dipolarity it will react to external electrical potentials, aligning itself relative to the field.
You can try an experiment to demonstrate this property. If you are in a low humidity environment use a plastic comb and comb your dry hair several times, then hold the comb next to a small continuous stream of water from a faucet, notice that the stream will be deflected away from the electrostatically charged comb.
This property along with the fact that in its pure form it is an insulator, allows it to be used as a capacitive dielectric material. If a high voltage DC pulse is applied to the plates of a pure water dielectric capacitor the individual molecules will be physically stretched from the plate potentials. If circuitry is employed to not allow physical electrical current to flow through the water and the pulses are increased in amplitude at the proper rate, specifically at a harmonic of the natural physical resonance of the Hydrogen and Oxygen bonds, the molecules will literally be split into their individual components.
This is the embodiment of the Stanley Meyer design.
I really wish I could get up off my butt and build one like this. If we could keep this thread going perhaps it might motivate me. It is encouraging to me that so many here have tried at least any form of this process to adapt for use on vehicles, even if initially there is only a marginal improvement in economy it is a step in the right direction.
Thanks Guys!
Quoting: Anonymous Coward 373365
You will want to watch this U-Tube discussion with Dr Peter Lindemann explaining the Stanley Meyers invention as he understands. [link to www.youtube.com]
Page 15 at overunity has some cross section pictures of the Meyers device: [link to www.overunity.com]
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