Everyone interested in this project, particularly the Meyer's aspects needs to look at this PDF.
It's over 200 pages, but if you jump to the very end there's an actual list of component and some pictures of how to assemble the cell!?
I got so excited I rushed to post this and haven't full read it myself (don't hate on me, it IS over 200 pages and I started at the beginning initially)
I hope this proves as amazing a find as I *think* it is at the moment.
Uuhhh....... The circuits at the bottom of the PDF are not Stanley Meyers'. They do not show the inductors and step up pulse transformers, which is part of the key. What is shown is just a standard electrolysis cell with the only modification to pulse the low voltage current.
I have studied the Meyers cell a little more and realized that the diode blocking will in actuality cause the voltage applied to the water cell to increase further once pulse voltage from the transformer drops below the value necessary to sustain current flow through the inductors. As the magnetic field in the inductors begins to collapse they will create a back EMF which will cause the diode to become forward biased again and conduct charging current to the cell. This will continue for a short time until the inductors field is fully collapsed.
In addition, if following the positive pulse portion of the tranformer output, it is then pulsed negatively it will force the cell inductors to a higher voltage potential as the collapsing field attempts to maintain a current flow through the circuit. That correlates to what Meyers wrote.
edit:
The idea would be to only allow enough current to flow to provide electrons for the dis associated hydrogen atoms to gain an electron and attain a net neutral charge and not be pulled back to a bond with the net negative Oxygen atom. One Truth.... many realities
V User ID: 298429 5/15/2008 9:12 AM
Re: Alternative Fuels-Using WATER to convert engine to a hybrid DIY!!
Everyone interested in this project, particularly the Meyer's aspects needs to look at this PDF.
It's over 200 pages, but if you jump to the very end there's an actual list of component and some pictures of how to assemble the cell!?
I got so excited I rushed to post this and haven't full read it myself (don't hate on me, it IS over 200 pages and I started at the beginning initially)
I hope this proves as amazing a find as I *think* it is at the moment.
Uuhhh....... The circuits at the bottom of the PDF are not Stanley Meyers'. They do not show the inductors and step up pulse transformers, which is part of the key. What is shown is just a standard electrolysis cell with the only modification to pulse the low voltage current.
I have studied the Meyers cell a little more and realized that the diode blocking will in actuality cause the voltage applied to the water cell to increase further once pulse voltage from the transformer drops below the value necessary to sustain current flow through the inductors. As the magnetic field in the inductors begins to collapse they will create a back EMF which will cause the diode to become forward biased again and conduct charging current to the cell. This will continue for a short time until the inductors field is fully collapsed.
In addition, if following the positive pulse portion of the tranformer output, it is then pulsed negatively it will force the cell inductors to a higher voltage potential as the collapsing field attempts to maintain a current flow through the circuit. That correlates to what Meyers wrote.
edit:
The idea would be to only allow enough current to flow to provide electrons for the dis associated hydrogen atoms to gain an electron and attain a net neutral charge and not be puled back to a bond with the net negative Oxygen atom.
Quoting: scimitar
Hmm. I see.
Thanks for the input Scimitar.
Meanwhile I've acquired all the docs that Ravi made publicly available from his replication efforts, and that 200+ page pdf was just 1 amongst many in his collection, so I've got hours and hours of reading and studying on the subject yet to do.
I guess I got a little overly excited initially, but it's still a wealth of information to help with the journey.
Peace.
V
scimitar I Just wanna know User ID: 15504 5/15/2008 10:35 AM
Re: Alternative Fuels-Using WATER to convert engine to a hybrid DIY!!
@ scimitar
Do transformers work the same way as ignition coils? The EM field needs to be collapsed before it will shoot out the step-up of voltage?
my experiments have been halted until i can get some true stainless steel plates for testing. In the mean time ive been converting some lawnmowers i have to propane! much fun.
Anonymous Coward User ID: 434147 5/16/2008 2:12 PM
Re: Alternative Fuels-Using WATER to convert engine to a hybrid DIY!!
I am so sick and disgusted at the price of gas these days that I set out on a search to find something that I didn't have to alter my car or spend tons of money to increase MY cars gas milage. I like my car and don't want to buy some over priced hybrid. Those things remind me of the clown cars you see in the circus. Well after much searching I found this guy in Florida selling a device he invented.
It works off your cars momentum and actually works on ANY vehicle with no modification. The missing vehicle instrument is born Three years of Research & Development provided me with the great satisfaction of having developed a patentable “inertial mass detector indicator device for vehicles” (patent pending) that I call “Moment-O-Meter” because people are already familiar with the term Speed-O-Meter showing their car’s speed. I believe they will have no problem understanding that Moment-O-Meter shows their car’s momentum. After being satisfied with the prototype’s performance, I decided to test it on my own car and other cars I would rent for the purpose of collecting more data. I learned that Moment-O-Meter allowed me to outperform the results obtained by the US Dept. Of Energy (www.ornl.gov/) Oak Ridge National Laboratory, Oak Ridge, Tennessee, especially in town. Imagine the number of gallons of gas saved from one car – mine. Now multiply this by 239,000,000 and you will have the solution to our energy independence because if we save fuel collectively, most of the foreign oil would become unnecessary. We need to let millions of people know about Moment-O-Meter through this free e-book using word-of-mouse. Thousands of people will read about Momentum-O-Meter in the coming months. Imagine how many other people have the same need to learn the new rules of driving. These terrific – and real – results obtained by the new rules of driving are astonishing.
Iam not here to sell so I will just give you the email address where you can request the ebook. It is
momentometer@usa.com
Anonymous Coward User ID: 242733 5/16/2008 2:50 PM
Re: Alternative Fuels-Using WATER to convert engine to a hybrid DIY!!
I haven't tried plate electrodes yet, because I have a huge roll of stainless steel wire that I scored somewhere years ago. (I'm a major pack rat, lol)
So far, it seems the biggest key to efficiency is getting the electrolyte level right, and the electrical current. About 1-1.25 amps, any more is just wasted as heat and cooks off the water faster.
ETA: I use baking soda and distilled water.
Quoting: Evil Twin
You guys are awesome! Keep up the good work. My friend is working on a fusion device that is self sustaining after initial warm up by the microwave unit. I'm gonna go help him out this weekend.
dave
Anonymous Coward User ID: 434166 5/16/2008 2:52 PM
Re: Alternative Fuels-Using WATER to convert engine to a hybrid DIY!!
@ scimitar
Do transformers work the same way as ignition coils? The EM field needs to be collapsed before it will shoot out the step-up of voltage?
my experiments have been halted until i can get some true stainless steel plates for testing. In the mean time ive been converting some lawnmowers i have to propane! much fun.
Quoting: Grower 429597
How hard is it to convert to propane? And is it a further great lead to get your lawnmower to run on pure HHO?
scimitar I Just wanna know User ID: 373365 5/16/2008 5:47 PM
Re: Alternative Fuels-Using WATER to convert engine to a hybrid DIY!!
@ scimitar
Do transformers work the same way as ignition coils? The EM field needs to be collapsed before it will shoot out the step-up of voltage?
my experiments have been halted until i can get some true stainless steel plates for testing. In the mean time ive been converting some lawnmowers i have to propane! much fun.
Quoting: Grower 429597
Actually an ignition coil is a transformer..... more specifically an auto-transformer, it is a single winding with an electrical tap close to one end of the coil. This results in having no ground isolation because the primary and secondary share a common return. an normal transformer has two or more isolated windings on a single ferrous core, there would be a complete DC isolation between the windings. As you may know the turns ratio determines the EMF produced by the mutual magnetic field induction from one coil to another. One Truth.... many realities
scimitar I Just wanna know User ID: 373365 5/16/2008 5:58 PM
Re: Alternative Fuels-Using WATER to convert engine to a hybrid DIY!!
Okay so finally started purchasing the components for my Meyers water cell. Well..... the easiest way to start..... I took a cue from Evil Twin, I am going to us stainless steel wire to start. I will try to wind a bifilar coil (two coils interleaved) around a form then bind the windings together with a line of epoxy in four placesd up the length of the coil. It would require some time to acquire the proper tubing, so I opted for a humble start.
I will be posting as I make progress.... with some pictures too.
Later One Truth.... many realities
Anonymous Coward User ID: 433732 5/16/2008 9:54 PM
Re: Alternative Fuels-Using WATER to convert engine to a hybrid DIY!!
How hard is it to convert to propane? And is it a further great lead to get your lawnmower to run on pure HHO?
Quoting: Anonymous Coward 434166
Its actually very simple. I used a 4.5 HP briggs and straton horizontal engine on a cheapo lawn mower. Took the carb apart discarded the fuel jets the bowl and hook up a hose directly to where the jets use to be. hooked the other end of the hose up to a small propane tank with a needle valve. thats it! On more advanced and larger systems you would use a larger propane tank with a regulator at the tank and another regulator for the carb/propane mix. i htink they call them on demand regulator.The Impco-Garretson KN series is what you want. They make kits for most engines but they are pricey and im a broke sob
Anonymous Coward User ID: 434283 5/16/2008 11:43 PM
Re: Alternative Fuels-Using WATER to convert engine to a hybrid DIY!!
Aluminum is a reactive metal and can be made to surrender electrons by several methods.
What you are not understanding is the aluminum is acting like a battery. The aluminum manufacturing process uses a lot of electricity to purify the metal from the ores.
The plant near Columbia Falls Montana has a large dam (Hungry Horse) nearby and one of the biggest customers for electricity from Hungry Horse is the Aluminum smelter.
The underwater arc process by the fellow in Florida whose name totally escapes me at the moment uses a lot of carbon rod plus carbon in feedstock water to essentially create "blue gas" which is a process dating back to about 1890 when coal was burned in the absence of sufficient oxygen and water was fed into the red hot coal.
In defense of the Florida process, he is advocating his process as a method of processing certain types of hazardous wastes such as medical waste, anti-freeze, and other carbon containing waste. Overall, a beneficial process but not easy nor is it "free energy."
Anonymous Coward User ID: 434546 5/17/2008 9:29 AM
Re: Alternative Fuels-Using WATER to convert engine to a hybrid DIY!!
Thank You ....... This link is absolutely nothing short of awesome...... It actually describes in detail the operation of the control electronics.
The down side is, If you want to actually build a Meyers water splitter it will require a great deal of external electronic circuitry to actually run the cell.
The controls described in this document require the pulsing controller to actively sweep the pulse frequency to find the resonant point of the circuit...... this is not LC resonance, because in a series resonant circuit the impedance will go to a very low value, which would cause a great deal more current to flow. The description indicates that at resonance the current goes to a very low value.
This is the key to achieving useful HHO production...... efficiently being able to modulate the production on demand.
This is the most important aspect because it would be insane to ever store HHO gas. One Truth.... many realities
scimitar I Just wanna know User ID: 373365 5/17/2008 10:45 PM
Re: Alternative Fuels-Using WATER to convert engine to a hybrid DIY!!
Eventually I will build a Meyers cell...... I say eventually because I don't have a lot of spare time. Most of the key logic functions I can design and prtotype in a single FPGA (programmable logic array). Finding the correct inductive values may take some time.... but my mind is locked on now thanks in part to those of you here who sparked my interest with your enthusiasm. This takes time, but I must believe there is a way to do this...... It is the most logical path my mind can find for a solution to my dreams.
I purchased the PVC components I need to make the containment vessel. The design description indicates that all of the inductive components are wound on the same core. This probably means I will have to wind my own on toriod forms....... A lot of trial and error, but even if the endevour is not fruitful I know I'll have fun anyway.
Seems now that this thread is losing momentum so I will fade into the backround until some one else has some input.
Till Later One Truth.... many realities
Grower User ID: 434669 5/18/2008 12:09 AM
Re: Alternative Fuels-Using WATER to convert engine to a hybrid DIY!!
I have been trying to find info in the web and... I did find it.
The most important statement I have found is this one...
"Keep it simple"
And the 2nd one is this...
" Think about it... do not copy past... think about it.."
So I did keep it simple and did thought about it.
So the important questions..
Why is it so important the resonance of water...??
This is why !!
Now... another question
What is important in Meyers cell..? is it the water resonance or something else ?
Could it be that the important aspect of it is the resonance of one of the atoms and not the water molecule?
Could it be that he was charging, by resonance, the 2 hydrogen atoms.
Because the water molecule is in a capacitator, both nucleos of hydrogen and oxigen will rase the electrical charge. Oxygen will rase the negative charge and hydrogen the positive charge. Now the two electrons from hydrogen have a negative electrical charge(neutrons), so they will be attracted to the positive charge of hydrogen nucleos and at the same time they will be repel from the oxigen negative charge nucleos.
because of this ... the water molecule will be elongated and weak.
Now ... you hit the resonance of hydrogen and what hapens is that you will charge the hydrogen atom (proton)even more with positive charge ... what will hapen is that the positive charge of the proton is attrated to the negative charged plate of the capacitator and at the same time the oxigen negative atom is repelled from it and attracted to the positive charge plate.
Because the electrons from hydrogen have a negative charge they will also be repelled from the negative charged plate and attracted to the positive charged plate. The water molecule will be separated and you will have Positive charged hydrogen atom (protons) free negative charged electrons (neutrons) and oxygen atoms.
From Wikipedia:
Hydrogen is the most abundant element in the universe, making up 75% of normal matter by mass and over 90% by number of atoms.[52] This element is found in great abundance in stars and gas giant planets. Molecular clouds of H2 are associated with star formation. Hydrogen plays a vital role in powering stars through proton-proton reaction and CNO cycle nuclear fusion.[53]
Throughout the universe, hydrogen is mostly found in the atomic and plasma states whose properties are quite different from molecular hydrogen. As a plasma, hydrogen's electron and proton are not bound together, resulting in very high electrical conductivity and high emissivity (producing the light from the sun and other stars). The charged particles are highly influenced by magnetic and electric fields. For example, in the solar wind they interact with the Earth's magnetosphere giving rise to Birkeland currents and the aurora. Hydrogen is found in the neutral atomic state in the Interstellar medium. The large amount of neutral hydrogen found in the damped Lyman-alpha systems is thought to dominate the cosmological baryonic density of the Universe up to redshift z=4.[54]
Under ordinary conditions on Earth, elemental hydrogen exists as the diatomic gas, H2 (for data see table). However, hydrogen gas is very rare in the Earth's atmosphere (1 ppm by volume) because of its light weight, which enables it to escape from Earth's gravity more easily than heavier gases. Still, hydrogen is the third most abundant element on the Earth's surface.[55] Most of the Earth's hydrogen is in the form of chemical compounds such as hydrocarbons and water.[33] Hydrogen gas is produced by some bacteria and algae and is a natural component of flatus. Methane is a hydrogen source of increasing importance.
I'll built a new cell...
I think we can make heavy water !! And if we do that ... they are fucked.
Cois User ID: 435245 5/18/2008 5:46 PM
Re: Alternative Fuels-Using WATER to convert engine to a hybrid DIY!!
Hey there,im new with this thing.Can anyone please help me te begin with my experiments by emailing me the basic plan on how to build the hho generator. Cois@mailmate.Co.Za....Thanx guys
Cois User ID: 435245 5/18/2008 5:47 PM
Re: Alternative Fuels-Using WATER to convert engine to a hybrid DIY!!
Hey there,im new with this thing.Can anyone please help me te begin with my experiments by emailing me the basic plan on how to build the hho generator. Cois@mailmate.Co.Za....Thanx guys
scimitar I Just wanna know User ID: 373365 5/18/2008 6:53 PM
Re: Alternative Fuels-Using WATER to convert engine to a hybrid DIY!!
I have been trying to find info in the web and... I did find it.
The most important statement I have found is this one...
"Keep it simple"
And the 2nd one is this...
" Think about it... do not copy past... think about it.."
So I did keep it simple and did thought about it.
So the important questions..
Why is it so important the resonance of water...??
This is why !!
Now... another question
What is important in Meyers cell..? is it the water resonance or something else ?
Could it be that the important aspect of it is the resonance of one of the atoms and not the water molecule?
Could it be that he was charging, by resonance, the 2 hydrogen atoms.
Because the water molecule is in a capacitator, both nucleos of hydrogen and oxigen will rase the electrical charge. Oxygen will rase the negative charge and hydrogen the positive charge. Now the two electrons from hydrogen have a negative electrical charge(neutrons), so they will be attracted to the positive charge of hydrogen nucleos and at the same time they will be repel from the oxigen negative charge nucleos.
because of this ... the water molecule will be elongated and weak.
Now ... you hit the resonance of hydrogen and what hapens is that you will charge the hydrogen atom (proton)even more with positive charge ... what will hapen is that the positive charge of the proton is attrated to the negative charged plate of the capacitator and at the same time the oxigen negative atom is repelled from it and attracted to the positive charge plate.
Because the electrons from hydrogen have a negative charge they will also be repelled from the negative charged plate and attracted to the positive charged plate. The water molecule will be separated and you will have Positive charged hydrogen atom (protons) free negative charged electrons (neutrons) and oxygen atoms.
I'll built a new cell...
I think we can make heavy water !! And if we do that ... they are fucked.
Quoting: Lastone 435229
That is Meyers explaination in a nutshell..... to use electrostatic charge to to tug the water molecule into its individual components with out the conventional use of ion conduction.
After looking at the last description of Meyers cell I read, I felt confident I understand the theory of operation of the external circuitry.
It is also possible that once the water molecule is strained under the influence of the external charge that ZP energy activity provides that last little kick to pop the Hydrogen atoms away from the Oxygen, Once they collect an electron on the negative electrode they no longer will have an affinity to re-combine with the Oxygen atom, visa versa for the Oxygen atom once it reaches the Positive electrode.
I do have a question that I have not been able to answer yet..... In the system diagram from the patent the "Energy Intensifier" portion shows that there are 5 windings on what appears a common core transformer, with a notation that it is a uniploar magnetic coupling. It is not clear whether they are merely stating the obvious, that current is only pulsed in a unipolar direction or that there is something special about the construction of the core.
The windings include the pulsed primary, the pulse detection feed back, the secondary HV, and the two choke inductors. The two choke inductors are wire in series with and appear to oppose the secondary winding, since they are wired in series with the secondary, and there is no mention of the turns ratio of these two windings relative to the secondary, I have no way of knowing how to approximate the number of turns required. Obviously this will have to be a custom wound transformer..... This will ultimately be the biggest challenge to building the system. One Truth.... many realities
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