So you can use pvc. At lowes they have 5-6 foot sections of fairly large pvc for like 8 bux.thinking of going that route and get some ss tubes for a meyer like setup. but multiple cells. been kinda busy with school and other stuff. And i dont have any $$$ for the stainless steel or other parts =(. It might be a while before i can get back into this.
scimitar I Just wanna know User ID: 20949 5/28/2008 1:00 PM
Re: Alternative Fuels-Using WATER to convert engine to a hybrid DIY!!
So you can use pvc. At lowes they have 5-6 foot sections of fairly large pvc for like 8 bux.thinking of going that route and get some ss tubes for a meyer like setup. but multiple cells. been kinda busy with school and other stuff. And i dont have any $$$ for the stainless steel or other parts =(. It might be a while before i can get back into this.
Quoting: Grower 441517
I decided to use stainless steel wire to make the cell electrodes. Wind the first on a length of PVC...... wind each turn tightly next to the other. then secure the wire at both ends. Next glue or epoxy several lengths of continuous spacer material (4 to 8) from top to bottom of the coil, then wind the second coil on top of that. In actuality it will provide a larger surface area than the tubes. Anyway that's what I'm going to try since I couldn't easily find the tubes.
I finished winding the step up transformer..... next are the bifilar chokes. It will still be a few weeks before I have everything ready to test, But slowly and surely I will get there. One Truth.... many realities
Lastone User ID: 411878 5/28/2008 2:47 PM
Re: Alternative Fuels-Using WATER to convert engine to a hybrid DIY!!
So you can use pvc. At lowes they have 5-6 foot sections of fairly large pvc for like 8 bux.thinking of going that route and get some ss tubes for a meyer like setup. but multiple cells. been kinda busy with school and other stuff. And i dont have any $$$ for the stainless steel or other parts =(. It might be a while before i can get back into this.
I decided to use stainless steel wire to make the cell electrodes. Wind the first on a length of PVC...... wind each turn tightly next to the other. then secure the wire at both ends. Next glue or epoxy several lengths of continuous spacer material (4 to 8) from top to bottom of the coil, then wind the second coil on top of that. In actuality it will provide a larger surface area than the tubes. Anyway that's what I'm going to try since I couldn't easily find the tubes.
I finished winding the step up transformer..... next are the bifilar chokes. It will still be a few weeks before I have everything ready to test, But slowly and surely I will get there.
Quoting: scimitar
God to know that you didn't stop it.
I'm having a litle problem. Maybe you can help me on this.
I'm making a new cell. Simple and easy... low cost using a 555 chip. I can find a step up converter or a step up transformer but when I use them the signal changes. Does anyone knows what can I do to step up the voltage without changing the signal.
scimitar I Just wanna know User ID: 23006 5/28/2008 3:58 PM
Re: Alternative Fuels-Using WATER to convert engine to a hybrid DIY!!
So you can use pvc. At lowes they have 5-6 foot sections of fairly large pvc for like 8 bux.thinking of going that route and get some ss tubes for a meyer like setup. but multiple cells. been kinda busy with school and other stuff. And i dont have any $$$ for the stainless steel or other parts =(. It might be a while before i can get back into this.
I decided to use stainless steel wire to make the cell electrodes. Wind the first on a length of PVC...... wind each turn tightly next to the other. then secure the wire at both ends. Next glue or epoxy several lengths of continuous spacer material (4 to 8) from top to bottom of the coil, then wind the second coil on top of that. In actuality it will provide a larger surface area than the tubes. Anyway that's what I'm going to try since I couldn't easily find the tubes.
I finished winding the step up transformer..... next are the bifilar chokes. It will still be a few weeks before I have everything ready to test, But slowly and surely I will get there.
God to know that you didn't stop it.
I'm having a litle problem. Maybe you can help me on this.
I'm making a new cell. Simple and easy... low cost using a 555 chip. I can find a step up converter or a step up transformer but when I use them the signal changes. Does anyone knows what can I do to step up the voltage without changing the signal.
Quoting: Lastone 411878
Not sure what you mean by changing the signal. If you are using a laminated iron core transformer it won't be usable above a few hundred hertz. this will greatly attenuate and distort the output of the step-up transformer at the target frequencies.
Also since the transformer is DC pulsed you won't see a good pulse on the output anyway. once the driver on the primary turns off the magnetic field will collapse by commutating through the free wheeling diode that should be across the primary winding to protect the driver from the back emf spike. One Truth.... many realities
Grower User ID: 441517 5/28/2008 4:25 PM
Re: Alternative Fuels-Using WATER to convert engine to a hybrid DIY!!
I'm having a litle problem. Maybe you can help me on this.
I'm making a new cell. Simple and easy... low cost using a 555 chip. I can find a step up converter or a step up transformer but when I use them the signal changes. Does anyone knows what can I do to step up the voltage without changing the signal.
Quoting: Lastone 411878
What exactly is your 555 chip doing? I read a little about them. You can program them correct? What is yours programed to do?
Anonymous Coward User ID: 442062 5/29/2008 10:18 AM
Re: Alternative Fuels-Using WATER to convert engine to a hybrid DIY!!
I'm having a litle problem. Maybe you can help me on this.
I'm making a new cell. Simple and easy... low cost using a 555 chip. I can find a step up converter or a step up transformer but when I use them the signal changes. Does anyone knows what can I do to step up the voltage without changing the signal.
What exactly is your 555 chip doing? I read a little about them. You can program them correct? What is yours programed to do?
Quoting: Grower 441517
Not using any program on it.
Just the normal 555 chip and a variable resistor. The circuit is very simple. I do think everyone is complicating it and that the secret of the circuit lies in the step up transformer or converter, frequency and the charging choke.
The chip is just working as a on/off switch. A timer switch. You need that to have a Back EMF in the charging choke. Meyer was using the two signs or just the back emf from the charging choke. To do that you need voltage in the input of the choke.
The charging choke that he was using was a big one, so the output of the step up transformer was also big or it would take a long time to charge the choke. This is how I see it.
I'm trying to get 300/400vdc from the step up to the charging choke. The problem is that the frequency changes because the step up needs time to built the 400vdc.
You need 2000/3000 vdc in the cell to start water resonance.
One thing is to have a cell that is working. Another thing is to have a cell that is working in resonance.
If anyone as the knowledge to help me ...PLEASEEEEE DOOOO !!
scimitar I Just wanna know User ID: 23006 5/29/2008 6:58 PM
Re: Alternative Fuels-Using WATER to convert engine to a hybrid DIY!!
Not using any program on it.
Just the normal 555 chip and a variable resistor. The circuit is very simple. I do think everyone is complicating it and that the secret of the circuit lies in the step up transformer or converter, frequency and the charging choke.
The chip is just working as a on/off switch. A timer switch. You need that to have a Back EMF in the charging choke. Meyer was using the two signs or just the back emf from the charging choke. To do that you need voltage in the input of the choke.
The charging choke that he was using was a big one, so the output of the step up transformer was also big or it would take a long time to charge the choke. This is how I see it.
I'm trying to get 300/400vdc from the step up to the charging choke. The problem is that the frequency changes because the step up needs time to built the 400vdc.
You need 2000/3000 vdc in the cell to start water resonance.
One thing is to have a cell that is working. Another thing is to have a cell that is working in resonance.
If anyone as the knowledge to help me ...PLEASEEEEE DOOOO !!
Quoting: lastone 442211
From the latest patent Meyers indicates a MAXIMUM voltage of about two thousand out of the VIC. Also He changed to not using a bifilar wound chokes in the VIC and they are now wound on a common core with the step-up transformer....... which is good cause you'd never get 2KV across a bifilar winding with magnet wire. Second you cannot use a lamenated iron core transformer for this if you are pulsing it a much more than a couple of hundred hertz. It must be a ferrite core to handle the multi Kilo Hertz pulsing he says it uses.
More later...... One Truth.... many realities
Grower User ID: 442137 5/30/2008 12:47 AM
Re: Alternative Fuels-Using WATER to convert engine to a hybrid DIY!!
I would see why ss wire would come in handy. Its cheap available and has a wide surface. I think i may do this as well. How are you going to keep the wires apart?
scimitar I Just wanna know User ID: 373365 5/30/2008 8:29 AM
Re: Alternative Fuels-Using WATER to convert engine to a hybrid DIY!!
I would see why ss wire would come in handy. Its cheap available and has a wide surface. I think i may do this as well. How are you going to keep the wires apart?
Quoting: Grower 442137
I thought about winding the inside electrode as a solid coil around a small diameter PVC pipe...... doesn't matter if the turns short. Then I will epoxy strips of a small size alligator grommet on at least 4 sides of the coil from top to bottom, this will provide the spacing for the outside electrode as well a form to wind it on. Also if the windings on the outside coil are separated then I will be able to see if any of the turns are shorting to the inner electrode. One Truth.... many realities
Anonymous Coward User ID: 442635 5/30/2008 8:58 AM
Re: Alternative Fuels-Using WATER to convert engine to a hybrid DIY!!
the 555 chip is to custom make your own pulse width modulator.. what this does is "pulse" the electrodes to allow the bubble to detach from them..It does improve efficiency as I have explained before the bubbles that form on the electrodes temporarily stop the electrolysis until they come off the electrodes. You do not need to build your own timer circuit to do this.. remember some people like to build everything from the ground up...
All you do need is the control circuit out of a cordless drill. disassemble a battery operated cordless drill. the wires that go to the drill motor should go to the electrodes the wires that go to the battery... well they go to the battery.
please remember shoving 12 volts at whatever amps from your battery/electrical system is not all used. you only need 2volts to separate water... anything over that and you are building a water heater. the key to efficiency is the correct voltage and amps for the surface area of your electrodes.
since most of us dont have the advanced math to calculate this we have to discover this from experimentation.
that is where the PWM comes in. you can adjust the correct amount of power going to the cell. the only way you can determine what the correct amount or power for your application is by monitoring the effects.
like water temp
gas output
There is another factor in this and that is electrolyte. Correct mixtures are KEY to a consistent medium in which to experiment. I will give you the correct mixtures here. Record this for reference.
The best electrolyte I have used is Potassium Hydroxide at 26 % solution
by weight to Distilled Water.
The next best one I used is Sodium hydroxide at approx 23 % solution
to Distilled water.
This is for a 7 Cell Series cell.... so it was low voltage electrolysis.
Somewhere about 1.9 V between the plates.
If you were to put 6 volts or more across plates - then you would need much less electrolyte
and some kind of vapor catcher on the output pipe.
I hope all of this was clear and understandable.
Grower User ID: 442137 5/30/2008 10:50 AM
Re: Alternative Fuels-Using WATER to convert engine to a hybrid DIY!!
For some reason i think people are making this harder then what it really is. I can see a few coils being used to up the voltage but is a 555 timer really needed? It looks to me as if a square wave might hinder the ability to produce a better electrolysis. I believe its all staring us right in the face. We just need someone to put together the pieces.
Anonymous Coward User ID: 442678 5/30/2008 10:54 AM
Re: Alternative Fuels-Using WATER to convert engine to a hybrid DIY!!
For some reason i think people are making this harder then what it really is. I can see a few coils being used to up the voltage but is a 555 timer really needed? It looks to me as if a square wave might hinder the ability to produce a better electrolysis. I believe its all staring us right in the face. We just need someone to put together the pieces.
Quoting: Grower 442137
I just explained it. read the post above yours, it is not complicated.
Anonymous Coward User ID: 442137 5/30/2008 10:54 AM
Re: Alternative Fuels-Using WATER to convert engine to a hybrid DIY!!
the 555 chip is to custom make your own pulse width modulator.. what this does is "pulse" the electrodes to allow the bubble to detach from them..It does improve efficiency as I have explained before the bubbles that form on the electrodes temporarily stop the electrolysis until they come off the electrodes. You do not need to build your own timer circuit to do this.. remember some people like to build everything from the ground up...
All you do need is the control circuit out of a cordless drill. disassemble a battery operated cordless drill. the wires that go to the drill motor should go to the electrodes the wires that go to the battery... well they go to the battery.
please remember shoving 12 volts at whatever amps from your battery/electrical system is not all used. you only need 2volts to separate water... anything over that and you are building a water heater. the key to efficiency is the correct voltage and amps for the surface area of your electrodes.
since most of us dont have the advanced math to calculate this we have to discover this from experimentation.
that is where the PWM comes in. you can adjust the correct amount of power going to the cell. the only way you can determine what the correct amount or power for your application is by monitoring the effects.
like water temp
gas output
There is another factor in this and that is electrolyte. Correct mixtures are KEY to a consistent medium in which to experiment. I will give you the correct mixtures here. Record this for reference.
The best electrolyte I have used is Potassium Hydroxide at 26 % solution
by weight to Distilled Water.
The next best one I used is Sodium hydroxide at approx 23 % solution
to Distilled water.
This is for a 7 Cell Series cell.... so it was low voltage electrolysis.
Somewhere about 1.9 V between the plates.
If you were to put 6 volts or more across plates - then you would need much less electrolyte
and some kind of vapor catcher on the output pipe.
I hope all of this was clear and understandable.
Quoting: Anonymous Coward 442665
It sounds like you've done this a few times. Have any pictures of your setup?
Grower User ID: 442137 5/30/2008 10:56 AM
Re: Alternative Fuels-Using WATER to convert engine to a hybrid DIY!!
It is titled "About CEMF/BEMF spikes" and is about the VIC, flyback transformers, the chokes, and variations on the driver circuits.
Yes I've read some of the comments on that forum....... You can......or at least I can't see any of the diagrams on that forum , because I suppose I did not join it.
There are some intelligent comments and some not so intelligent ones there.
When the primary is pulsed, the created voltage on the secondary is primarily there because of magnetic induction.... some capacitive coupling is there but of negligible consequence. This magnetic field is created by current flow. The Back EMF at the instant of conduction occurs because the magnetic field goes almost instantly from nothing to something. An inductor has the attribute of opposing any change in current through it, therefore the Back EMF at the instant of conduction will almost match the applied EMF...... as the magnetic field increases it goes from some strength to a greater strength, this ratio is now less than from nothing to something, which results in the Back EMF reducing its potential slightly. The longer the applied EMF is there The slope of increasing current change will diminish logarithmically until the maximum current is reached. This is determined by the non reactive resistance of the inductor. This curve can also be truncated if the core material becomes saturated ..... meaning it cannot hold a greater strength magnetic field, the current through the inductor would then go immediately to its maximum.
The diode that is placed in series with the coil windings and the water cell will obviously allow current to flow only one way so that the LC components will not be allowed to oscillate. When the pulse is removed from the primary winding the the magnetic field will begin to collapse and in so doing it will produce an EMF on the windings that will resist a change in the current through them. After the capacitive effect of the water cell has charged to the applied potential current flow through it will reduce because it now matches the applied potential, however the inductors want to keep current flowing so they will produce a higher EMF as the field collapses this will then cause more current to flow into the capacitor thus charging it to a higher potential.
If the train of pulses occurs quickly enough so that the water capacitor does not have time to discharge then it will cause a step charging effect. One note: Remember that the initial voltage applied to the cell when the primary pulse occurs is based on the step up ratio of the transformer, if the capacitor is already charged to that potential then no current will flow in the secondary. So the maximum voltage that can be seen on the water cell will be based (as I see it) only on the amplitude of EMF applied to the primary times the step up-ratio.
So if you are using 12Volts for pulsing the primary and you want to achieve 2KV on the water cell then you will need a step up ratio of approx 166. Other wise you must increase the pulse amplitude.
More later. One Truth.... many realities
Anonymous Coward User ID: 442678 5/30/2008 4:55 PM
Re: Alternative Fuels-Using WATER to convert engine to a hybrid DIY!!
I finished winding the Meyers VIC transformer, now I will move on and build the coil driver circuit. I will use two signal generators to create the pulse train then add a dummy load to the transformer....... a capacitor and parallel resistor, then test it.
Then possibly this week end start constructing the water cell. I can't decide whether I want to concentric electrode coils or a bifilar set........ Hmmmmmm I'll wait and see what kind of mood I'm in when I start that portion.
Either this will be a big waste of time or provide some valuable knowledge, will keep yall posted. One Truth.... many realities
scimitar I Just wanna know User ID: 373365 5/30/2008 5:12 PM
Re: Alternative Fuels-Using WATER to convert engine to a hybrid DIY!!
Thanks for the vid..... seems most everyone is going for the standard electrolysis. I noticed he didn't comment on the volume of gas production, improved performance or gas milage, I will say that he invested a lot of work to get that far. Hopefully he will have some good results. One Truth.... many realities
Anonymous Coward User ID: 442964 5/30/2008 10:35 PM
Re: Alternative Fuels-Using WATER to convert engine to a hybrid DIY!!
This auction on ebay has ended, but likely if you have a working ebay account (I don't) you can contact the seller who probably has a bunch of these plastic flashback valves.
Check out greenyourcars.com for some info about water for fuel.
I think all water for fuel tech are scams. I know physics a little, there is no free energy.
Water could be fuel if you use more energy to make h2o becomes hho.
Sure hope is is possible, but I truly doubt.
Quoting: Anonymous Coward 385156
Green Your Cars is an auto-foreward to water4gas. This organization was just condemned yesterday on the hydroxy group (yahoo) for putting out a poor quality product. Posters seem to agree that the Smack's booster is a better unit and that information is free.
scimitar I Just wanna know User ID: 373365 5/31/2008 6:08 PM
Re: Alternative Fuels-Using WATER to convert engine to a hybrid DIY!!
Check out greenyourcars.com for some info about water for fuel.
I think all water for fuel tech are scams. I know physics a little, there is no free energy.
Water could be fuel if you use more energy to make h2o becomes hho.
Sure hope is is possible, but I truely doubt.
Quoting: Anonymous Coward 385156
Things are not as they seem......... ZPE is real, main stream science knows it....... They just have no idea how to synchronize it to create a usable gradient to draw power from it. One Truth.... many realities
Lastone User ID: 443507 5/31/2008 10:07 PM
Re: Alternative Fuels-Using WATER to convert engine to a hybrid DIY!!
"From the latest patent Meyers indicates a MAXIMUM voltage of about two thousand out of the VIC. Also He changed to not using a bifilar wound chokes in the VIC and they are now wound on a common core with the step-up transformer....... which is good cause you'd never get 2KV across a bifilar winding with magnet wire. Second you cannot use a lamenated iron core transformer for this if you are pulsing it a much more than a couple of hundred hertz. It must be a ferrite core to handle the multi Kilo Hertz pulsing he says it uses."
I think he did lie alot.
As I see it you don't need more then 400 to 550Hz at 2000vdc.
Anonymous Coward User ID: 443725 6/1/2008 9:43 AM
Re: Alternative Fuels-Using WATER to convert engine to a hybrid DIY!!
U-Tube stopped working for me yesterday. Another Vista issue, I am sure. Vista is the best salesman Linux and Mac ever had, and they never paid a penny. This, I guarantee, is the last piece of Microsoft crap I'll ever pay for.
Editorial commentary end; water fuel misc info from Hydroxy list (I don't have a link cause the poster didn't provide one. - Guess I can still search U-Tube for the mentioned video.)
Anyway: QUOTE
"search for zerofossilfuel on youtube, he has an oscilloscope and built a resonant cell (spiral), he has like 90 videos on cells and on number 66 he uses an oscilloscope to measure the frequency of his pulse width modulator, you may be able to get an idea on the connections from there."
Let us all know if you do this search and find significant information.
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