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Alternative Fuels-Using WATER to convert engine to a hybrid DIY!!
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scimitar 
I Just wanna know
User ID: 373365
6/7/2008 5:39 PM
 | | Re: Alternative Fuels-Using WATER to convert engine to a hybrid DIY!! | Quote |
Interesting.........
I wound another cell electrode coil with the SS wire That has almost twice as many turns with closer spacing for more capacitance..... thinking I could lower the resonant frequency, Nope still somewhere around 30 Mhz, This possibly means that there is a molecular resonance occuring.
The quest will now be to build an oscillator using the cell as the tank circuit and see where it naturaly resonates.
I've played some with RF, but it is definately not my strong suite..... so I have to go read and study now.
Wish me luck.
One Truth.... many realities |
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Anonymous Coward
User ID: 357422
6/7/2008 5:45 PM | | Re: Alternative Fuels-Using WATER to convert engine to a hybrid DIY!! | Quote |
[link to hytechapps.com]
Check out the video "click to play" when the site comes up.
The technology already exists. They are running the car on 2/3 gas and 1/2 hydrogen. They could do it on 100 percent hydrogen, they just can't say so because of the fucking retards that run the US. |
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Anonymous Coward
User ID: 357422
6/7/2008 5:46 PM | | Re: Alternative Fuels-Using WATER to convert engine to a hybrid DIY!! | Quote |
and 1/3 hydrogen, not 1/2 |
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scimitar
I Just wanna know
User ID: 373365
6/7/2008 5:53 PM
| | Re: Alternative Fuels-Using WATER to convert engine to a hybrid DIY!! | Quote |
[ link to hytechapps.com]
Check out the video "click to play" when the site comes up.
The technology already exists. They are running the car on 2/3 gas and 1/2 hydrogen. They could do it on 100 percent hydrogen, they just can't say so because of the fucking retards that run the US.
Thanks for the link...... Just one of several groups that are beginning to market these devices , did you happen to notice the cost??
I already know that numerous people have the technology, but if I don't understand it for myself then I can't build it for myself....... If it were monopolizable so a group could control it then it would have been available a long time ago. If it is simple so everyone can have energy independance then they will make it illegal..... plain and simple.
You know its true..........
One Truth.... many realities |
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Anonymous Coward
User ID: 448048
6/8/2008 9:39 AM | | Re: Alternative Fuels-Using WATER to convert engine to a hybrid DIY!! | Quote |
If you are of a scientific bent and understand chemical molecular bond equations, then this 16 page piece is a must read:
[link to waterpoweredcar.com]
Resonance of plates discussed on page 15, but not resonance of the molecular structure of the water molecule. |
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scimitar
I Just wanna know
User ID: 373365
6/8/2008 10:53 AM
| | Re: Alternative Fuels-Using WATER to convert engine to a hybrid DIY!! | Quote |
If you are of a scientific bent and understand chemical molecular bond equations, then this 16 page piece is a must read:
[ link to waterpoweredcar.com]
Resonance of plates discussed on page 15, but not resonance of the molecular structure of the water molecule.
Wow! The good stuff just keeps on comming. Thanks!!
You get a much different picture of how things really are from reading this. The writer states that the energy required for electrolysis is in fact less than the combustion of the resultant hydrogen and oxygen production.
This adds new light to my understanding and clearly offers many more options for creating real usable hydrogen generation systems.
Which way do I go ....... Which way do I go. A number of things described in this document are directly related to the Meyers later patent....amazing.
Even if you forget the equations you can get the jist of what he is saying a....... a must read for anyone building any kind of electrolyzer.
One Truth.... many realities |
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scimitar
I Just wanna know
User ID: 373365
6/8/2008 11:05 AM
| | Re: Alternative Fuels-Using WATER to convert engine to a hybrid DIY!! | Quote |
Oooppps!..... One more post to bump the number off of 666. He He
One Truth.... many realities |
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Lastone
User ID: 448100
6/8/2008 12:24 PM | |
scimitar
I Just wanna know
User ID: 373365
6/8/2008 12:56 PM
| | Re: Alternative Fuels-Using WATER to convert engine to a hybrid DIY!! | Quote |
Man!..... A lot of information there..... I've read a little on this subject before. Unless you devote yourself to research in this area it's a lot to digest mentally.
Almost finished with my yard work so I can get back in the lab....... Damn it's gettin HOT outside. Wish it would rain.
One Truth.... many realities |
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Lastone
User ID: 448100
6/8/2008 1:01 PM | | Re: Alternative Fuels-Using WATER to convert engine to a hybrid DIY!! | Quote |
"As noted above, it produces a gate pulse frequency. The gate pulse is superimposed over the resonant frequency pulse to create a duty cycle that determines the number of discrete pulses sent to the primary coil. For example, assuming a resonant pulse o 5 KHz, a 0.5 Hz gate pulse may be superimposed over the 5 KHz pulse to provide 2500 discrete pulses in a 50% duty cycle per Hz. The relationship of resonant pulse to the gate pulse is determined by conventional signal addition/subtraction techniques." |
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Lastone
User ID: 448100
6/8/2008 1:08 PM | | Re: Alternative Fuels-Using WATER to convert engine to a hybrid DIY!! | Quote |
"The resonance of the water capacitor cell is affected by the volume of water in the cell. The resonance of any given volume of water maintained in the water capacitor cell is also affected by contaminants in the water which act as a damper. For example, at an applied potential difference of 2000 to 5000 volts to the cell, an amp spike or surge may be caused by inconsistencies in water characteristics that cause an out-of-resonance condition which is remedied instantaneously by the control circuits.
In the invention, the adjustable frequency generator (Figure 12) tunes into the resonant condition of the circuit including the water cell and the water therein. The generator has a frequency capability of 0-10 KHz in a typical 3.0 inch water capacitor formed of a 0.5 inch rod enclosed within a 0.75 inside diameter cylinder. At start up, in this example, current draw through the water cell will measure about 25 milliamp; however, when the circuit finds a tuned resonant condition, current drops to a 1-2 milliamp minimum leakage condition.
The voltage to the capacitor water cell increases according to the turns of the winding and size of the coils, as in a typical transformer circuit. For example, if 12 volts are sent to the primary coil of the pulsing core and the secondary coil resonant charging choke ration is 30 to 1, then 360 volts are sent to the capacitor water cell. Turns are a design variable that control the voltage of the unipolar pulses sent to the capacitor. " |
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Lastone
User ID: 448100
6/8/2008 1:15 PM | | Re: Alternative Fuels-Using WATER to convert engine to a hybrid DIY!! | Quote |
" In the Example of a fuel cell circuit, a water capacitor is included. The step-up coil is formed on a conventional torroidal core formed of a compressed ferromagnetic powered material that will not itself become permanently magnetized, such as the trademarked "Ferramic 06# "Permag" powder as described in Siemens Ferrites Catalog, CG-2000-002-121, (Cleveland, Ohio) No. F626-1205". The core is 1.50 inch in diameter and 0.25 inch in thickness. A primary coil of 200 turns of 24 gauge coppe r wire is provided and coil of 600 turns of 36 gauge wire comprises the secondary winding.
In the circuit, the diode is a 1N1198 diode which acts as a blocking diode and an electric switch that allows voltage flow in one direction only. Thus, the capacitor is never subjected to a pulse of reverse polarity.
The primary coil of the torroid is subject to a 50% duty cycle pulse. The torroidal pulsing coil provides a voltage step-up from the pulse generator in excess of five times, although the relative amount of step-up is determined by pre-selected criteria for a
particular application. As the stepped-up pulse enters first inductor (formed from 100 turns of 24 gauge wire 1 inch in diameter), an electromagnetic field is formed around the inductor,
voltage is switched off when the pulse ends, and the field collapses and produces another pulse of the same polarity; i.e., another positive pulse is formed where the 50% duty cycle was terminated. Thus, a double pulse frequency is produced; however, in pulse train of unipolar pulses, there is a brief time when pulses are not present. |
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scimitar
I Just wanna know
User ID: 373365
6/8/2008 4:06 PM
| | Re: Alternative Fuels-Using WATER to convert engine to a hybrid DIY!! | Quote |
"As noted above, it produces a gate pulse frequency. The gate pulse is superimposed over the resonant frequency pulse to create a duty cycle that determines the number of discrete pulses sent to the primary coil. For example, assuming a resonant pulse o 5 KHz, a 0.5 Hz gate pulse may be superimposed over the 5 KHz pulse to provide 2500 discrete pulses in a 50% duty cycle per Hz. The relationship of resonant pulse to the gate pulse is determined by conventional signal addition/subtraction techniques." Quoting: Lastone 448100
Sorry, but you didn't post the link I think you intended. That link was a long one about universal harmonic frequencies in general.
One Truth.... many realities |
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Lastone
User ID: 181622
6/8/2008 6:57 PM | |
Lastone
User ID: 181622
6/8/2008 7:00 PM | |
Lastone
User ID: 181622
6/8/2008 7:13 PM | | Re: Alternative Fuels-Using WATER to convert engine to a hybrid DIY!! | Quote |
[link to www.scribd.com]
All the document is important but .. please look at page 1/25
the image of the BOOSTER ROCKET ENGINE.
What do you see?
I see a pulse voltage frequency input... and all the negative connected to grownd. No connection to any battery or other system... just a connection to grownd.
Am I wrong about this ? |
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scimitar
I Just wanna know
User ID: 373365
6/10/2008 9:29 AM
| | Re: Alternative Fuels-Using WATER to convert engine to a hybrid DIY!! | Quote |
Lastone,
It would be necessary to have a reference potential to create a differential gradient across the electrodes, so I definately think there are wires to the center tubes. Although I did think it was interesting about the calcium oxide forming on the negative electrode which would have the effect of greatly reducing the current flow through the cell.
Well....... I have the parts I need to continue my experiments. Should have some results by the end of the week. Will let yall know what I find.
The trickle of threads about water conversion to run cars seems to be increasing. It would make you think something would begin to happen soon, especially since fuel prices are now so incredibly high. Perhaps the best way for things to start hoppin and poppin in this area would be for gas prices to stay high...... Don't hit me I'm just sayin. At least there are options for people to buy some systems to put on there cars themselves. Although judging by the prices of the better ones someone definately wants to get rich....... And several probably will, But it won't be me.
Wish I could just stay home today, but it's off to work I go.
Yall have a wonderful day.
One Truth.... many realities |
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Anonymous Coward
User ID: 268012
6/10/2008 10:12 AM | | Re: Alternative Fuels-Using WATER to convert engine to a hybrid DIY!! | Quote |
You will want to review these calculations and experiments done by "Warj"
[link to www.waterfuelcell.org]
This guy is technically capable and has done a number of Meyer Cell replications - testing variables. |
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Anonymous Coward
User ID: 268012
6/10/2008 10:46 AM | | Re: Alternative Fuels-Using WATER to convert engine to a hybrid DIY!! | Quote |
You will want to review these calculations and experiments done by "Warj"
[ link to www.waterfuelcell.org]
This guy is technically capable and has done a number of Meyer Cell replications - testing variables.
After reading this material in total, I have reached a conclusion that this experimenter never got close to the high voltages (except one small attempt with a flyback transformer) nor the frequencies suggested by Meyers or Keely. |
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scimitar
I Just wanna know
User ID: 23006
6/10/2008 11:13 AM
| | Re: Alternative Fuels-Using WATER to convert engine to a hybrid DIY!! | Quote |
You will want to review these calculations and experiments done by "Warj"
[ link to www.waterfuelcell.org]
This guy is technically capable and has done a number of Meyer Cell replications - testing variables.
After reading this material in total, I have reached a conclusion that this experimenter never got close to the high voltages (except one small attempt with a flyback transformer) nor the frequencies suggested by Meyers or Keely.
My experiments on the closest form of Meyers electronics yielded Nada! The output of my VIC could exceed 2KV, but that was unloaded measuring only a charge on an external capacitor. Any attempt at connecting any electrodes in water(tap) would load the output down to only a few volts. It made no difference what the frequency was and virtually no bubbles were being produced. Obviously there is something else going on here. The main difference in my electrodes is that they consist of a bifliar wound SS wire coil on a PVC form
I decided to deviate somewhat after I discovered that by exciting my cell directly from a pulse generator @ about 30 Mhz I hit a resonant point and started to produce bubbles. This was with low voltage (9 volt peak @ resonance with a 50 ohm output impedance) and very low current. I figured that was just by hitting the resonance of the cell electrode coils, However by doubling the number of windings (increasing the inductance) the frequency of resonance remained about 30 Mhz.
I am now in the process of building a better signal source with the added capability to use the cell as a tank circuit so it will self resonate.
As I said earlier I should have some results later this week.
One Truth.... many realities |
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Anonymous Coward
User ID: 268012
6/10/2008 11:15 AM | | Re: Alternative Fuels-Using WATER to convert engine to a hybrid DIY!! | Quote |
Another water fuel cell forum; this is the index of threads:
[link to waterfuelcell.org] |
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Anonymous Coward
User ID: 450103
6/11/2008 3:50 PM | | Re: Alternative Fuels-Using WATER to convert engine to a hybrid DIY!! | Quote |
Otto Cycle engine illustration via a moving picture gif.
[link to www.keveney.com]
For beginners. |
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Anonymous Coward
User ID: 450103
6/11/2008 3:55 PM | | Re: Alternative Fuels-Using WATER to convert engine to a hybrid DIY!! | Quote |
You need to check your spark plugs if you are working with an old engine.
The spark plugs must be clean, and of the "cold" variation that is available for your engine.
"Hot" plugs are designed to stay hotter to burn off carbon, but that type plug - especially if carboned up will be hot enough to pre-ignite the incoming HHO gas. This is one of the causes of flashback explosions.
And, use flashback arrestors no matter what. |
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Anonymous Coward
User ID: 373365
6/11/2008 10:48 PM | | Re: Alternative Fuels-Using WATER to convert engine to a hybrid DIY!! | Quote |
You need to check your spark plugs if you are working with an old engine.
The spark plugs must be clean, and of the "cold" variation that is available for your engine.
"Hot" plugs are designed to stay hotter to burn off carbon, but that type plug - especially if carboned up will be hot enough to pre-ignite the incoming HHO gas. This is one of the causes of flashback explosions.
And, use flashback arrestors no matter what. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 450103
That's a good point actually, as for my particular stage in the process I'm months away from testing on a engine, and the first would be with a 5KW generator I have. Simple carburator(sp?) with magneto spark and no electronics.
If I can't make the Meyers type work then I'll switch to standard electrolysis...... But I won't give up easily.
Honestly, I think I am finally beginning to understand the true concept of ZPE and how it relates to so called "free energy"....... It is no more amazing than the energy pouring on to the Earth from the Sun. I won't bore you with a dissertation at the moment, but later...... Who knows.
ZPE as I understand it relates purely to photonic energy that is so high in frequency that it has only a minimal interaction with matter in our universe. Only when this energy is inadvertently synchronized and aligned and beats to form energy waves that have an affect on matter in our space time do we have the possibility to have a gradient of potential from which to draw power....... OOpps sorry wasn't goin to ramble now.
I need sleep........ Later dudes & dudettes |
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scimitar
I Just wanna know
User ID: 373365
6/11/2008 10:55 PM
| | Re: Alternative Fuels-Using WATER to convert engine to a hybrid DIY!! | Quote |
Yeah, that was me above in case you didn't already know.
One Truth.... many realities |
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Anonymous Coward
User ID: 450572
6/12/2008 10:21 AM | | Re: Alternative Fuels-Using WATER to convert engine to a hybrid DIY!! | Quote |
@ Scimitar: "That's a good point actually, as for my particular stage in the process I'm months away from testing on a engine, and the first would be with a 5KW generator I have. Simple carburetor with magneto spark and no electronics."
That's a good way to start IMO, and I encourage others to experiment with simple engines first.
I don't know what the spark rise time and discharge pulse might look like with a high voltage probe and an oscilloscope on this machine.
But the flywheel is easily accessible and this suggestion for a firing gizmo might be in order. Some experimenters are setting up an optical beam and interrupter that is adjustable.
HHO is very easy to fire and waste spark or excessive spark can throw off results. Good control of exactly when firing begins is quite important. Perhaps a degree or two after top dead center might be correct.
Opticoupler fired capacitive discharge circuits can offer such control.
. |
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scimitar
I Just wanna know
User ID: 373365
6/12/2008 10:39 AM
| | Re: Alternative Fuels-Using WATER to convert engine to a hybrid DIY!! | Quote |
@ Scimitar: "That's a good point actually, as for my particular stage in the process I'm months away from testing on a engine, and the first would be with a 5KW generator I have. Simple carburetor with magneto spark and no electronics."
That's a good way to start IMO, and I encourage others to experiment with simple engines first.
I don't know what the spark rise time and discharge pulse might look like with a high voltage probe and an oscilloscope on this machine.
But the flywheel is easily accessible and this suggestion for a firing gizmo might be in order. Some experimenters are setting up an optical beam and interrupter that is adjustable.
HHO is very easy to fire and waste spark or excessive spark can throw off results. Good control of exactly when firing begins is quite important. Perhaps a degree or two after top dead center might be correct.
Opticoupler fired capacitive discharge circuits can offer such control.
. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 450572
I'm assuming that from your comments that you are now or have in the past implemented such a system. What method did you use for electrolyzing the water.
If I can easily create sufficient gas on demand to run an engine then everything else will be down hill from there. I know a few people that are reasonably expert in the area of internal combustion engines.
I am almost finished with the electronics I building to investigate some of my discoveries, However they deviate from the official Meyers cell....... I really can't speak from the position of success at this moment, but if you can offer any thoughts originating from direct experience it would be greatly appreciated.
I'm keeping my fingers crossed..... I want to understand more of the atypical electrolysis mechanics as much as I want to create a cell to run an engine.
Thanks for your comments.....
Later dudes
One Truth.... many realities |
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Grower
User ID: 449976
6/12/2008 12:18 PM | | Re: Alternative Fuels-Using WATER to convert engine to a hybrid DIY!! | Quote |
scimitar i think your making it more difficult then it really is. Try a small setup with just a battery and your SS cell and go from there?. This is what i will do when i have enough $$$ to go and buy some SS sheet metal or some form of it. I'm going to build one cell and keep adding cells from there hook them all up in series and see if i can get a little 5 HP briggs and stratton engine running from it. If that works correctly its going into a 1600cc volks wagen engine. If that gets good results ill double the cells and use it on the larger engines i have. Ive been reading that you want to keep around 2 volts per plate. But this would depend on the thickness of your plates as well. |
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Anonymous Coward
User ID: 450614
6/12/2008 12:25 PM | | Re: Alternative Fuels-Using WATER to convert engine to a hybrid DIY!! | Quote |
scimitar i think your making it more difficult then it really is. Try a small setup with just a battery and your SS cell and go from there?. This is what i will do when i have enough $$$ to go and buy some SS sheet metal or some form of it. I'm going to build one cell and keep adding cells from there hook them all up in series and see if i can get a little 5 HP briggs and stratton engine running from it. If that works correctly its going into a 1600cc volks wagen engine. If that gets good results ill double the cells and use it on the larger engines i have. Ive been reading that you want to keep around 2 volts per plate. But this would depend on the thickness of your plates as well. Quoting: Grower 449976
go to a hardware home improvement store and get some stainless steel switch or wall plate covers.
I bought 5 from Home Depot for $1.29 each.
just what you are looking for |
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Anonymous Coward
User ID: 450614
6/12/2008 12:29 PM | |
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