This guy is ABSOLUTELY correct about wearing ear protection. These bubbles are extremely loud. I'm trying to find this video again of a guy blowing up a balloon of hydrogen in his garage. It blew a bunch of doors open...
Evil Twin Senior Forum Moderator User ID: 429054 5/6/2008 11:22 PM
Re: Alternative Fuels-Using WATER to convert engine to a hybrid DIY!!
In reply to: "i think the drain unclog stuff called red devil contains 100% lye" Evil Twin replies:
Thanks, I will look into the Lye!
Quoting: Evil Twin
Lye is referred to by industrial users as "caustic soda"
You should feed your Brown's gas through a scrubber that removes the lye (or potassium based electrolyte) as either of these can pit aluminum castings which are parts of intake manifolds and heads. The scrubber design can also function as an anti-flashback mechanism.
Lye plus aluminum yields free hydrogen too, but that's not a reaction you really want when the aluminum is a part of your engine.
Lye is a corrosive alkaline substance, specifically, sodium hydroxide (NaOH). Previously, lye was among the many different alkalis leached from hardwood ashes.[1] In modern day, lye is commercially manufactured using a membrane cell method,which is an improvement from the previous diaphragm cell methods of Castner-Kellner, Gibbs, and Nelson.
Evil Twin Senior Forum Moderator User ID: 429054 5/6/2008 11:44 PM
Re: Alternative Fuels-Using WATER to convert engine to a hybrid DIY!!
Look for the D9 PDF file. Bob Boyce is an old guy with a brain that still works fine and a straight up fellow. He might not answer your questions tho because of simply too many looky-loos eat up his time.
The PWM circuits are Pulsed Wave Modulators to drive a toroidal coil:
This works. My friend just installed his and increased his mileage he says by 50%. It's also guaranteed and doesn't modify your warranty because nothing is removed. I'm getting mine as soon as possible. My civic gets about 35 mpg and this should boost it about to about 55 mpg, maybe better.
[link to dont_use_this.com]
Oh yeah that guy selling his cell for 220 bux isnt too bad at all. considering it might ( i say might because of the different engine configurations)save you over 220 a week.If your honestly thinking about buying one though i would really do the research and learn about how electricity works before you go dabbing into this. There are too many things to consider in a vehicle now-a-days to have one setup work for all vehicles( i belive this is why mythbusters debunked this in the first place)
Anonymous Coward User ID: 356646 5/6/2008 11:50 PM
Re: Alternative Fuels-Using WATER to convert engine to a hybrid DIY!!
I really want to get one of these installed but im no good at working on cars or electronics. I wish I was.
Im wondering if I could buy one and have my mechanic install it.
Hes probably not even heard of this technology yet.
Id really like to improve my MPG 50% though.
I have been looking into this for a while.
I do also have a few concerns. One being, how to fix the problem with the oxygen sensor.
Ive also seen systems that do a 50% increase while running cool without making any steam, this seems better to me without the steam and heat.
Im worried that my mechanic and I wont know how to tweak it to get it right, change the amps and get the electrolyte right. That is if we can even get it installed properly. I wonder if he would be able to mount it without some kind of premade hardware.
Another thing is I live in the north east and plan to move even further north near the canadian border. Most of the year the water would freeze without some heater or something. I guess you would have to install a heater tape on it. I suppose this is not the biggest issue.
I also hope that this would not mess up my engine. How long have you guys been running these with no problems?
On top of all this, I would have to this conversion on the cheap, maybe 400 maximum. Still, Id love to do it.
I guess I will wait till a fully complete, cheap and easy kit comes along I can get my mechanic to install.
Anonymous Coward User ID: 429098 5/6/2008 11:54 PM
Re: Alternative Fuels-Using WATER to convert engine to a hybrid DIY!!
The Smack's booster unit is more like what evil twin has already built.
The Bob Boyce unit is a LOT MORE COMPLICATED AND VERY EXPENSIVE TO ASSEMBLE. (~ maybe a thousand or more bux)
Zigarous (spelling?) racing team (east coast) has run an auto engine on a stand on pure Brown's gas supplied by electrolyzer units driven from electrical mains. (not overunity nor free)
They have run engines for hours for testing purposes on pure Brown's gas.
Anonymous Coward User ID: 256741 5/6/2008 11:54 PM
Re: Alternative Fuels-Using WATER to convert engine to a hybrid DIY!!
hey look, have you compared your results to just a non-electrified water bubbler? I'm not understanding how exactly you've escaped the 'conversion losses' making hydrogen - it should take more electricity generated by the gas motor to crack the hydrogen than you're putting back. Unless you guys have actually defeated the laws of physics, which isn't likely, this strikes me as just a disguised water-bubbler. I played with those as a kid, astonishing results, but also burned a valve. Your whole contraption may just be a complicatedly disguised 'air-bleed'/water vapor system. You can demonstrate this on a carbureted engine, just unplug the smallest vacuum hose and the rpm will shoot up audibly. (crooked mechanics do the opposite, they loosen a critical hose to create a stumbling engine that only they can repair).
Why isn't anybody trying to bubble carbide gasses instead of hydrogen electrolysis. At least that's actual burnable gas.
Anonymous Coward User ID: 256741 5/6/2008 11:57 PM
Re: Alternative Fuels-Using WATER to convert engine to a hybrid DIY!!
hey look, have you compared your results to just a non-electrified water bubbler? I'm not understanding how exactly you've escaped the 'conversion losses' making hydrogen - it should take more electricity generated by the gas motor to crack the hydrogen than you're putting back. Unless you guys have actually defeated the laws of physics, which isn't likely, this strikes me as just a disguised water-bubbler. I played with those as a kid, astonishing results, but also burned a valve. Your whole contraption may just be a complicatedly disguised 'air-bleed'/water vapor system. You can demonstrate this on a carbureted engine, just unplug the smallest vacuum hose and the rpm will shoot up audibly. (crooked mechanics do the opposite, they loosen a critical hose to create a stumbling engine that only they can repair).
Why isn't anybody trying to bubble carbide gasses instead of hydrogen electrolysis. At least that's actual burnable gas.
Quoting: Anonymous Coward 256741
guess you didn't watch this video
here it is again . it is a burnable explosive gas!
hey look, have you compared your results to just a non-electrified water bubbler? I'm not understanding how exactly you've escaped the 'conversion losses' making hydrogen - it should take more electricity generated by the gas motor to crack the hydrogen than you're putting back. Unless you guys have actually defeated the laws of physics, which isn't likely, this strikes me as just a disguised water-bubbler. I played with those as a kid, astonishing results, but also burned a valve. Your whole contraption may just be a complicatedly disguised 'air-bleed'/water vapor system. You can demonstrate this on a carbureted engine, just unplug the smallest vacuum hose and the rpm will shoot up audibly. (crooked mechanics do the opposite, they loosen a critical hose to create a stumbling engine that only they can repair).
Why isn't anybody trying to bubble carbide gasses instead of hydrogen electrolysis. At least that's actual burnable gas.
Quoting: Anonymous Coward 256741
I have not progressed to actually producing HHO on demand in the vehichle. I am still playing with it in the garage.
Still, I have had no trouble producing it at 12.5 VDC @ 1.2 amps. I then pump the resultant gas into another bottle of water, theory being that the water becomes "saturated" with the gas. Then use that water in the bubbler mounted in my truck in the pics on the first page.
Maybe pumping the gas into the water is a complete waste of time, and I'm only seeing mileage improvements because of the water vapor. Whatever the case, it's been fun to experiment with, and I like the improved economy I've achieved so far.
Evil Twin Senior Forum Moderator User ID: 429054 5/7/2008 12:11 AM
Re: Alternative Fuels-Using WATER to convert engine to a hybrid DIY!!
I really want to get one of these installed but im no good at working on cars or electronics. I wish I was.
Im wondering if I could buy one and have my mechanic install it.
Hes probably not even heard of this technology yet.
Id really like to improve my MPG 50% though.
I have been looking into this for a while.
I do also have a few concerns. One being, how to fix the problem with the oxygen sensor.
Ive also seen systems that do a 50% increase while running cool without making any steam, this seems better to me without the steam and heat.
Im worried that my mechanic and I wont know how to tweak it to get it right, change the amps and get the electrolyte right. That is if we can even get it installed properly. I wonder if he would be able to mount it without some kind of premade hardware.
Another thing is I live in the north east and plan to move even further north near the canadian border. Most of the year the water would freeze without some heater or something. I guess you would have to install a heater tape on it. I suppose this is not the biggest issue.
I also hope that this would not mess up my engine. How long have you guys been running these with no problems?
On top of all this, I would have to this conversion on the cheap, maybe 400 maximum. Still, Id love to do it.
I guess I will wait till a fully complete, cheap and easy kit comes along I can get my mechanic to install.
and read the automotive application section. in the forum stated before theres a few people that are working on and /or completed a o2 sensor adjuster? already. where and how to mount the cell will depend on your hydroxy cell structure and your vehicle make. Freezing in the winter would be a problem i belive... maybe there can be an additive? who knows. Start your own build. try things out. As far as it messing up your engine if you can get the air/fuel mixture right for all of the engines RPM range you shouldn't see any problems(considering your engine is of quality and in somewhat tip top shape) From what i have been reading the hydroxy will clean carbon deposits left from fossilfuels. On older engines (120k miles+) this may become a problem because your engine's material wears its self onto the deposits. If you live near the michigan area i would be glad to help.
LookForMe User ID: 386035 5/7/2008 12:14 AM
Re: Alternative Fuels-Using WATER to convert engine to a hybrid DIY!!
Hi Guys, Potassium Hydroxide is better than Sodium Hydroxide or baking soda, get it from soap makers, like summerbeemeadow.com I built a 7 plate unit using Stainless plates used for electrical box blank covers, got them at lowes. Used 10 gauge wire and a 30 amp auto-reset circuit breaker from the auto parts store, a 30 amp relay, and I am good to go. The Sodium Hydroxide does not evaporate, so all you do once you get the amount correct, is just add distilled water. I ordered a EFIE (electronic fuel injector enhancer) to trick the Oxygen sensor, then found I have 2 on my 2008 Scion XB. I am getting about 5 MPG better anyway, and a good 20 hp gain! When the EFIE #2 gets here, I will be pushing 20 mpg better I am hoping. I was having a problem with the HHO generator heating up too much, so I put a smaller wire one that I had built early-on, and hooked it up in series to drop the voltage to 6 amps to each cell, and the overheating problem is gone. I am going to sell these and install them once I get it perfected on my car.
H H O User ID: 297758 5/7/2008 12:18 AM
Re: Alternative Fuels-Using WATER to convert engine to a hybrid DIY!!
I started making a 101 cell browns gas generator a few months ago. The whole trick to generating gas (more gas than Faraday's law stated) is the electronics that drive it. My controller uses 160 volts DC and a complex (reasonably) waveform (44khz, 22khz and 11khz). If anyone is interested I can post all my net resources in this thread.
I'd do it now but I don't have them here at work.
Evil Twin Senior Forum Moderator User ID: 429054 5/7/2008 12:19 AM
Re: Alternative Fuels-Using WATER to convert engine to a hybrid DIY!!
I have read that some people add a little windhield washer fluid during the winter to prevent freezing. Don't know what the effect on the electrodes would be from that.
Anonymous Coward User ID: 429098 5/7/2008 12:19 AM
Re: Alternative Fuels-Using WATER to convert engine to a hybrid DIY!!
hey look, have you compared your results to just a non-electrified water bubbler? I'm not understanding how exactly you've escaped the 'conversion losses' making hydrogen - it should take more electricity generated by the gas motor to crack the hydrogen than you're putting back. Unless you guys have actually defeated the laws of physics, which isn't likely, this strikes me as just a disguised water-bubbler. I played with those as a kid, astonishing results, but also burned a valve. Your whole contraption may just be a complicatedly disguised 'air-bleed'/water vapor system. You can demonstrate this on a carbureted engine, just unplug the smallest vacuum hose and the rpm will shoot up audibly. (crooked mechanics do the opposite, they loosen a critical hose to create a stumbling engine that only they can repair).
Why isn't anybody trying to bubble carbide gasses instead of hydrogen electrolysis. At least that's actual burnable gas.
Quoting: Anonymous Coward 256741
First this question: "What precisely makes hydrogen "Brown's" gas? Electrolysis of water has been known forever."
Named after Yull Brown who developed a torch based on electrolized water. Has some unusual operating characteristics. It is both the oxygen and hydrogen mixed together.
First question: injecting brown's gas into the intake air-stream on an Otto cycle engine can change the operating characteristics. Presently we fire the plugs at about 8 degrees before top dead center (TDC) - with the brown's gas we can fire nearly at TDC because the flame spread is nearly instantaneous. This makes the otto cycle more efficient. The product of combustion of the brown's gas is water which soaks up heat from the gasoline explosion and causes a more efficient expansion cycle. Further efficiency could be added by modifying the engine to utilize this combination further.
1. under square engine - longer expansion than the diameter of the bore
I started making a 101 cell browns gas generator a few months ago. The whole trick to generating gas (more gas than Faraday's law stated) is the electronics that drive it. My controller uses 160 volts DC and a complex (reasonably) waveform (44khz, 22khz and 11khz). If anyone is interested I can post all my net resources in this thread.
I'd do it now but I don't have them here at work.
Quoting: H H O 297758
Wow this thread just keeps getting better!
Anonymous Coward User ID: 256741 5/7/2008 12:21 AM
Re: Alternative Fuels-Using WATER to convert engine to a hybrid DIY!!
guess you didn't watch this video
here it is again . it is a burnable explosive gas!
Quoting: the Questeon ? 348793
Maybe I didn't express myself clearly. Carbide releases combustible gas merely by getting wet, it doesn't require electricity. Nobody has *EVER* demonstrated that you can get more energy from water than it takes to crack it, and the pics I saw showed no amazing new method. Nothing new here.
then found I have 2 on my 2008 Scion XB. I am getting about 5 MPG better anyway, and a good 20 hp gain! When the EFIE #2 gets here, I will be pushing 20 mpg better I am hoping.
Quoting: LookForMe 386035
yeah some cars even have up to 6 now! thats why i said before there just too much variation with the different vehicles for one single hydroxy cell to work.
I started making a 101 cell browns gas generator a few months ago. The whole trick to generating gas (more gas than Faraday's law stated) is the electronics that drive it. My controller uses 160 volts DC and a complex (reasonably) waveform (44khz, 22khz and 11khz). If anyone is interested I can post all my net resources in this thread.
I'd do it now but I don't have them here at work.
Quoting: H H O 297758
I would love it. so your putting 3 different frequencies at once? my god that poor water must be going fucking nuts! I just took electronics fundamentals at my local college and i cannot get enough now. Learning about different electrical components all the time. What is required to run @ 160VDC? a converter + rectifier?
The Last Man On Earth User ID: 256741 5/7/2008 12:37 AM
Re: Alternative Fuels-Using WATER to convert engine to a hybrid DIY!!
First this question: "What precisely makes hydrogen "Brown's" gas? Electrolysis of water has been known forever."
Named after Yull Brown who developed a torch based on electrolized water. Has some unusual operating characteristics. It is both the oxygen and hydrogen mixed together.
First question: injecting brown's gas into the intake air-stream on an Otto cycle engine can change the operating characteristics. Presently we fire the plugs at about 8 degrees before top dead center (TDC) - with the brown's gas we can fire nearly at TDC because the flame spread is nearly instantaneous. This makes the otto cycle more efficient.
Quoting: Anonymous Coward 429098
Okay look, I'm trying so hard not to be a troll now that I don't get banned all the time, but you ignorant children are so full of shit i can't contain myself.
***ALL*** water-to-hydrogen schemes split the water into hydrogen and oxygen; did you drop out of gradeschool or something? Look up "electrolysis". The only thing "Brown" about this is how much shit you're full of.
Second of all, retarding the timing is a indication of REDUCED OCTANE and INCREASED PRE-IGNITION('knocking'),
***NOT INCREASED EFFICIENCY***
God DAMMITT i hate the public school system.
You morons are experts at the latest video game, but you could never change a sparkplug or even hammer a nail without mortally wounding yourselves.
First this question: "What precisely makes hydrogen "Brown's" gas? Electrolysis of water has been known forever."
Named after Yull Brown who developed a torch based on electrolized water. Has some unusual operating characteristics. It is both the oxygen and hydrogen mixed together.
First question: injecting brown's gas into the intake air-stream on an Otto cycle engine can change the operating characteristics. Presently we fire the plugs at about 8 degrees before top dead center (TDC) - with the brown's gas we can fire nearly at TDC because the flame spread is nearly instantaneous. This makes the otto cycle more efficient.
Okay look, I'm trying so hard not to be a troll now that I don't get banned all the time, but you ignorant children are so full of shit i can't contain myself.
***ALL*** water-to-hydrogen schemes split the water into hydrogen and oxygen; did you drop out of gradeschool or something? Look up "electrolysis". The only thing "Brown" about this is how much shit you're full of.
Second of all, retarding the timing is a indication of REDUCED OCTANE and INCREASED PRE-IGNITION('knocking'),
***NOT INCREASED EFFICIENCY***
God DAMMITT i hate the public school system.
You morons are experts at the latest video game, but you could never change a sparkplug or even hammer a nail without mortally wounding yourselves.
Quoting: The Last Man On Earth 256741
are you even thinking while you type?
Evil Twin Senior Forum Moderator User ID: 429054 5/7/2008 12:44 AM
Re: Alternative Fuels-Using WATER to convert engine to a hybrid DIY!!
You morons are experts at the latest video game, but you could never change a sparkplug or even hammer a nail without mortally wounding yourselves.
Quoting: The Last Man On Earth 256741
I suck at video games, but I'm an excellent carpenter, and I've been rebuilding automatic transmissions since I was 10.
They're a bit more complex than sparkplugs ;)
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