<== thats who this guy works for. your making an argument with your self dude. Everything your stating has no purpose here. I suggest to re-read the thread.
Quoting: Grower
sorry, i'm the resident rabid pro-ethanol troll here, so you're wrong yet again.
What the hell is so hard about finishing highschool???
Anonymous Coward User ID: 372844 5/7/2008 1:52 AM
Re: Alternative Fuels-Using WATER to convert engine to a hybrid DIY!!
I'm not separating anything, and I'm certainly no expert on this subject.
Absolutly you are. Thats where things get tricky. You have to think on the molecule level. Your taking water witch is 2 parts hydrogen and one part oxygen(and what ever else has contaminated it hence the use of distilled water) and giving it a jolt of electricity make the molecular bond break and separating the 2.
I know I'm separating hydrogen and O2 during the electrolysis process, I was referring to separating the hydrogen from the O2 after electrolysis.
Quoting: Evil Twin
Can I ask how? AFTER electrolysis, how are you removing the oxygen? I'm assuming. Nope. I wont assume. Please do tell? I have an idea on how to do this DURING electrolysis, then simply vent the oxygen into the atmosphere. Haven't proven it yet though.
Peace :)
Evil Twin Senior Forum Moderator User ID: 429170 5/7/2008 1:53 AM
Re: Alternative Fuels-Using WATER to convert engine to a hybrid DIY!!
it sure seemed lke it was worth experimenting with.
If the mood ever strikes you, try driving it without the electricity attached, and see if there's any actual difference
Quoting: Anonymous Coward 256741
If you look at the pics I posted on the first page, you'll see that I've yet to make any electrial connections under the hood. To visualize the coming apocalypse, imagine, if you will, Oprah & Rosie O'Donnell wrestling for the last rib at an all-you can-eat Bar-B-Q...
Hmm...
Pulling the heads at 163,000 miles (about 25,000 miles of which were "on hydrogen") revealed not only residual buildup especially around the intake valve, but even the exhaust manifold was showing signs as well. Same can be said far as I could see into the tailpipe where it connected to the manifold. This could also be contributed to the importance of using distilled water due to the minerals that seem to "stick" during and after combustion rather well. Put it this way, the "quality" of your water can make a BIG difference.
Peace
Quoting: Anonymous Coward 372844
curious on your setup? could you determine what the buildup is? @163k miles theres always going to be buildup on your valves even with just gasoline.
Evil Twin Senior Forum Moderator User ID: 429170 5/7/2008 1:55 AM
Re: Alternative Fuels-Using WATER to convert engine to a hybrid DIY!!
I'm not separating anything, and I'm certainly no expert on this subject.
Absolutly you are. Thats where things get tricky. You have to think on the molecule level. Your taking water witch is 2 parts hydrogen and one part oxygen(and what ever else has contaminated it hence the use of distilled water) and giving it a jolt of electricity make the molecular bond break and separating the 2.
I know I'm separating hydrogen and O2 during the electrolysis process, I was referring to separating the hydrogen from the O2 after electrolysis.
Can I ask how? AFTER electrolysis, how are you removing the oxygen? I'm assuming. Nope. I wont assume. Please do tell? I have an idea on how to do this DURING electrolysis, then simply vent the oxygen into the atmosphere. Haven't proven it yet though.
Peace :)
Quoting: Anonymous Coward 372844
I'm not separating 2H from O2 at all. To visualize the coming apocalypse, imagine, if you will, Oprah & Rosie O'Donnell wrestling for the last rib at an all-you can-eat Bar-B-Q...
Can I ask how? AFTER electrolysis, how are you removing the oxygen? I'm assuming. Nope. I wont assume. Please do tell? I have an idea on how to do this DURING electrolysis, then simply vent the oxygen into the atmosphere. Haven't proven it yet though.
Peace :)
Quoting: Anonymous Coward 372844
I think i remember reading magnetism will. That should give you a start?
Evil Twin Senior Forum Moderator User ID: 429170 5/7/2008 2:00 AM
Re: Alternative Fuels-Using WATER to convert engine to a hybrid DIY!!
What you can't seem to grasp is that it takes more gasoline to run the alternator that powers the electrolysis than you can get back from the piddling amounts of hydrogen it cracks. Ever heard of the laws of thermodynamics?:
1. You can't win.
2. You can't break even.
3. You can't get out of the game.
Quoting: Anonymous Coward 256741
You seem to be overlooking the fact that the alternator is running whether hydrogen is being produced, or not. Usually, the excess voltage generated is just dissipated as heat, now, it's being put to use. Most of us are not trying to run on hydrogen alone, but just adding a small amount to the fuel/air mix, and a lot of people are getting better mileage that way. To visualize the coming apocalypse, imagine, if you will, Oprah & Rosie O'Donnell wrestling for the last rib at an all-you can-eat Bar-B-Q...
Anonymous Coward User ID: 372844 5/7/2008 2:02 AM
Re: Alternative Fuels-Using WATER to convert engine to a hybrid DIY!!
Hmm...
Pulling the heads at 163,000 miles (about 25,000 miles of which were "on hydrogen") revealed not only residual buildup especially around the intake valve, but even the exhaust manifold was showing signs as well. Same can be said far as I could see into the tailpipe where it connected to the manifold. This could also be contributed to the importance of using distilled water due to the minerals that seem to "stick" during and after combustion rather well. Put it this way, the "quality" of your water can make a BIG difference.
Peace
curious on your setup? could you determine what the buildup is? @163k miles theres always going to be buildup on your valves even with just gasoline.
Quoting: Grower
The buildup didn't appear to be carbon deposits. Looked like rust to me... To the contrary, I was amazed at the LACK of carbon deposits. Kinda the same effect many years ago when I tinkered with Holley water Injection. Learned about mineral deposits then too. This is no different. (The 'ol Holly system DID let me run 11.5's on 88 octane...hehe
Slow the timing down a tad. (I REALLY miss my 70 1/2 Z-28)..:(boohoo)
Anonymous Coward User ID: 372844 5/7/2008 2:05 AM
Re: Alternative Fuels-Using WATER to convert engine to a hybrid DIY!!
Can I ask how? AFTER electrolysis, how are you removing the oxygen? I'm assuming. Nope. I wont assume. Please do tell? I have an idea on how to do this DURING electrolysis, then simply vent the oxygen into the atmosphere. Haven't proven it yet though.
Peace :)
I think i remember reading magnetism will. That should give you a start?
The buildup didn't appear to be carbon deposits. Looked like rust to me... To the contrary, I was amazed at the LACK of carbon deposits. Kinda the same effect many years ago when I tinkered with Holley water Injection. Learned about mineral deposits then too. This is no different. (The 'ol Holly system DID let me run 11.5's on 88 octane...hehe
Slow the timing down a tad. (I REALLY miss my 70 1/2 Z-28)..:(boohoo)
Quoting: Anonymous Coward 372844
did you get better gas mileage? well wtf am i even asking... you had in your car for 25,000 miles and that say enough... why did you take the heads off? just to see what it was doing? what engine were you running it on? what was your average MPG? Did you have any alternator/battery problems?
Anonymous Coward User ID: 372844 5/7/2008 2:22 AM
Re: Alternative Fuels-Using WATER to convert engine to a hybrid DIY!!
First this question: "What precisely makes hydrogen "Brown's" gas? Electrolysis of water has been known forever."
Named after Yull Brown who developed a torch based on electrolized water. Has some unusual operating characteristics. It is both the oxygen and hydrogen mixed together.
First question: injecting brown's gas into the intake air-stream on an Otto cycle engine can change the operating characteristics. Presently we fire the plugs at about 8 degrees before top dead center (TDC) - with the brown's gas we can fire nearly at TDC because the flame spread is nearly instantaneous. This makes the otto cycle more efficient.
Okay look, I'm trying so hard not to be a troll now that I don't get banned all the time, but you ignorant children are so full of shit i can't contain myself.
***ALL*** water-to-hydrogen schemes split the water into hydrogen and oxygen; did you drop out of gradeschool or something? Look up "electrolysis". The only thing "Brown" about this is how much shit you're full of.
Second of all, retarding the timing is a indication of REDUCED OCTANE and INCREASED PRE-IGNITION('knocking'),
***NOT INCREASED EFFICIENCY***
God DAMMITT i hate the public school system.
You morons are experts at the latest video game, but you could never change a sparkplug or even hammer a nail without mortally wounding yourselves.
You're really not up to speed on this. Have you had at least 8 hours of college chemistry? This isn't just electrolysis. There is a chemical conversion. Brown's gas burns much much faster than a gasoline mixture and must be ignited past TDC. Gasoline has a slow rate of burn, so it must be ignited before TDC. If you don't retard the timing for the Brown's gas, You'll be seeing holes in your piston.
If you're just blowing a little bit into the intake, you might be able to keep the std timing, but if you were burning pure Brown's gas, You WILL have to retard the timing, preferably several degrees PTDC.
I just wish I was as smart as you think you are.
Quoting: Anonymous Coward 426019
LOL.
Yup. When you hear that clatter at 7000 rpm, it's probably too late anyway...hehe
One thing I would like to add, as it is being constantly denied by many is this. If we never learn to "think outside the box", so to speak, we will continue getting more of the same. We limit our potential when we do. Just because Einstein said it, doesn't exactly settle it-unless we "choose" to accept it, hook, line and sinker....WITHOUT ever doing anything but "excepting" it as being so. Our society has been "taught" what to believe and is never encouraged to "think for oneself" anymore. That would be "going against the grain", and going against the grain isn't what we were told to do. The poster you commented on fits this example to the tee. Stuck in his little world, surrounded by limitations on every corner-limitations HE set up, and sadly, doesn't even realize what he has done, and that "he" is the only one responsible for this belief. "He" is indeed the perfect "Poster-Child" for what the powers that be would call a "Good American" Believe what you are told to believe.
Peace
Anonymous Coward User ID: 429178 5/7/2008 2:22 AM
Re: Alternative Fuels-Using WATER to convert engine to a hybrid DIY!!
You seem to be overlooking the fact that the alternator is running whether hydrogen is being produced, or not. Usually, the excess voltage generated is just dissipated as heat, now, it's being put to use. Most of us are not trying to run on hydrogen alone, but just adding a small amount to the fuel/air mix, and a lot of people are getting better mileage that way.
Quoting: Evil Twin
Spinning under no-load isn't the same as running. But if you're right that it's presently being dumped into a load resistor(if that's what you're saying) then the solution is to give it an actuating clutch like the AC compressor has.
Evil Twin Senior Forum Moderator User ID: 429170 5/7/2008 2:27 AM
Re: Alternative Fuels-Using WATER to convert engine to a hybrid DIY!!
If you look at the pics I posted on the first page, you'll see that I've yet to make any electrial connections under the hood.
So it's just a bubbler then? Surely it can't be cracking hydrogen out of water via electrolysis if no electricity is involved?
Quoting: Anonymous Coward 429178
No electrolysis in the vehichle, yet. Doing that in the garage until I'm satisfied with my results, and I need to build a circuit to fool the O2 sensors. To visualize the coming apocalypse, imagine, if you will, Oprah & Rosie O'Donnell wrestling for the last rib at an all-you can-eat Bar-B-Q...
You seem to be overlooking the fact that the alternator is running whether hydrogen is being produced, or not. Usually, the excess voltage generated is just dissipated as heat, now, it's being put to use. Most of us are not trying to run on hydrogen alone, but just adding a small amount to the fuel/air mix, and a lot of people are getting better mileage that way.
Spinning under no-load isn't the same as running. But if you're right that it's presently being dumped into a load resistor(if that's what you're saying) then the solution is to give it an actuating clutch like the AC compressor has.
Quoting: Anonymous Coward 429178
It's under a load whenever the engine is running. With the results I'm getting in my test rig in the garage, I'm generating significant amounts of hydrogen at just over 1 amp, about the same as running an interior light in the truck.
I'm not generating enough gas to run on hydrogen alone or feed a torch at that level, but it should be plenty to add to the fuel/air mix and achieve the desired results. To visualize the coming apocalypse, imagine, if you will, Oprah & Rosie O'Donnell wrestling for the last rib at an all-you can-eat Bar-B-Q...
Brown's refried beans User ID: 429178 5/7/2008 2:33 AM
Re: Alternative Fuels-Using WATER to convert engine to a hybrid DIY!!
Just because Einstein said it, doesn't exactly settle it-unless we "choose" to accept it
Quoting: Anonymous Coward 372844
Oh great, another dulltard wiccan pitching 'consensus reality' in the face of hard physics.
Prove me wrong retards - power your engine expressly on "Brown's Flatulence" and try to generate more from your electrolysis chamber than you burn to spin the alternator that powers the electrolysis chamber in the first place. Until you can do that, stop preaching ignorance and stupidity.
Anonymous Coward User ID: 372844 5/7/2008 2:37 AM
Re: Alternative Fuels-Using WATER to convert engine to a hybrid DIY!!
The buildup didn't appear to be carbon deposits. Looked like rust to me... To the contrary, I was amazed at the LACK of carbon deposits. Kinda the same effect many years ago when I tinkered with Holley water Injection. Learned about mineral deposits then too. This is no different. (The 'ol Holly system DID let me run 11.5's on 88 octane...hehe
Slow the timing down a tad. (I REALLY miss my 70 1/2 Z-28)..:(boohoo)
did you get better gas mileage? well wtf am i even asking... you had in your car for 25,000 miles and that say enough... why did you take the heads off? just to see what it was doing? what engine were you running it on? what was your average MPG? Did you have any alternator/battery problems?
Quoting: Grower
The "head removal" was done ONLY for inspection. I only took one head off. I have had no battery or alternator problems. Only real concern is in the summertime when it's hot as hell. Under my hood, at 16 amps at the cells, it gets REAL hot. I shut the cells down from time to time. It is for this reason, I think the "pulse" method has merit. Also been thinking about maybe trying a few hi voltage capacitors on a pulse circuit...but if it works, that would challenge what we already understand about DC circuits, huh? That's the idea. Challenge EVERYTHING! Change will find us.
As far as the rest of your questions, I already posted them, engine size, ect., ect. Go back a bit.
Prove me wrong retards - power your engine expressly on "Brown's Flatulence" and try to generate more from your electrolysis chamber than you burn to spin the alternator that powers the electrolysis chamber in the first place. Until you can do that, stop preaching ignorance and stupidity.
Quoting: Brown's refried beans 429178
JERRY JERRY JERRY JERRY!!! KICK THAT BITCH TO THE CURB GIRL FIREND! DUMP THAT ZERO And GET YO SELF A HERO!
If you have the correct equipment and enough cells you can do it.Creating a high voltage and low amp is usually the way to go.
Anonymous Coward User ID: 429178 5/7/2008 2:40 AM
Re: Alternative Fuels-Using WATER to convert engine to a hybrid DIY!!
It's under a load whenever the engine is running. With the results I'm getting in my test rig in the garage, I'm generating significant amounts of hydrogen at just over 1 amp, about the same as running an interior light in the truck.
Quoting: Evil Twin
now wait one damn minute, your previous post said you have made no electrical connection yet, so how the hell can you be producing electrolysis of water into hydrogen via amperage????
I'm a little confused here - did i miss a post??? I'm not trolling you, I'm intrigued.
Evil Twin Senior Forum Moderator User ID: 429170 5/7/2008 2:41 AM
Re: Alternative Fuels-Using WATER to convert engine to a hybrid DIY!!
- power your engine expressly on "Brown's Flatulence" and try to generate more from your electrolysis chamber than you burn to spin the alternator that powers the electrolysis chamber in the first place. Until you can do that, stop preaching ignorance and stupidity.
Quoting: Brown's refried beans 429178
I don't think anyone is trying to do that. I'm certainly not. What I'm working on is hybrid fueled engine. HHO combined with the normal fuel/air mix for improved fuel efficiency. To visualize the coming apocalypse, imagine, if you will, Oprah & Rosie O'Donnell wrestling for the last rib at an all-you can-eat Bar-B-Q...
Evil Twin Senior Forum Moderator User ID: 429170 5/7/2008 2:44 AM
Re: Alternative Fuels-Using WATER to convert engine to a hybrid DIY!!
It's under a load whenever the engine is running. With the results I'm getting in my test rig in the garage, I'm generating significant amounts of hydrogen at just over 1 amp, about the same as running an interior light in the truck.
now wait one damn minute, your previous post said you have made no electrical connection yet, so how the hell can you be producing electrolysis of water into hydrogen via amperage????
I'm a little confused here - did i miss a post??? I'm not trolling you, I'm intrigued.
Quoting: Anonymous Coward 429178
I'm testing the eletrolysis process in my garage on the work bench. I have a simple vapourizer installed in my truck.
No electrical connections, no electrolysis in my truck, yet. To visualize the coming apocalypse, imagine, if you will, Oprah & Rosie O'Donnell wrestling for the last rib at an all-you can-eat Bar-B-Q...
As far as the rest of your questions, I already posted them, engine size, ect., ect. Go back a bit.
Peace
Quoting: Anonymous Coward 372844
freaking awesome! i missed that post. a 6.0 engine? jesus thats a bigone. I have a olds 6.6 ill be giving the juice to once i get everything operational. I wonder what the build up really is. On a brand new vehicle if you run it for about 15k miles and take the heads off you will see a bronze like color on the valves just from heat. but that is Awesome that there was no carbon buildup
I'm testing the eletrolysis process in my garage on the work bench. I have a simple vapourizer installed in my truck.
No electrical connections, no electrolysis in my truck, yet.
Quoting: Evil Twin
so your its just water vapor injection? holy shit? i really need something on my car. the gas prices are just to high.
Anonymous Coward User ID: 429178 5/7/2008 2:54 AM
Re: Alternative Fuels-Using WATER to convert engine to a hybrid DIY!!
Prove me wrong retards - power your engine expressly on "Brown's Flatulence" and try to generate more from your electrolysis chamber than you burn to spin the alternator that powers the electrolysis chamber in the first place. Until you can do that, stop preaching ignorance and stupidity.
JERRY JERRY JERRY JERRY!!! KICK THAT BITCH TO THE CURB GIRL FIREND! DUMP THAT ZERO And GET YO SELF A HERO!
If you have the correct equipment and enough cells you can do it.Creating a high voltage and low amp is usually the way to go.
Quoting: Grower
You make an un-challengeable case...
that you're BLACK
Anonymous Coward User ID: 372844 5/7/2008 2:57 AM
Re: Alternative Fuels-Using WATER to convert engine to a hybrid DIY!!
Just because Einstein said it, doesn't exactly settle it-unless we "choose" to accept it
Oh great, another dulltard wiccan pitching 'consensus reality' in the face of hard physics.
Prove me wrong retards - power your engine expressly on "Brown's Flatulence" and try to generate more from your electrolysis chamber than you burn to spin the alternator that powers the electrolysis chamber in the first place. Until you can do that, stop preaching ignorance and stupidity.
Quoting: Brown's refried beans 429178
Hey douchebag...
What I do know is this. Combining efforts and small improvements such as air flow, ECM adjustments, and yes, ESPECIALLY the hydrogen cells, I have improved my fuel mileage by over 1/3. Go take what you "know" back with you to your mommies basement. Gee, you "silver spooned fucktards" are all the same.
Instead of being part of the problem, why don't you try becoming part of the SOLUTION! Shit you fuckstick, you are probably getting monthly kickbacks from Halliburton or your daddy owns an oil well in Saudi. Whatever it is, you can bet your just like all the other dumbfucks. Your parents threw a big party the first time you wiped your ass without getting shit on your hand. Big deal loser. You look like wallpaper to me. Now go "blend in" with the wallpaper in your mommies bathroom and play "pup tent". Your sister is waiting.....
Go get her, Champ!
Evil Twin Senior Forum Moderator User ID: 429170 5/7/2008 2:58 AM
Re: Alternative Fuels-Using WATER to convert engine to a hybrid DIY!!
I'm testing the eletrolysis process in my garage on the work bench. I have a simple vapourizer installed in my truck.
No electrical connections, no electrolysis in my truck, yet.
so your its just water vapor injection? holy shit? i really need something on my car. the gas prices are just to high.
Quoting: Grower
Yep, so far!
That alone got me 3 mpg.
Earlier in the thread, I said I've been "charging" the water by using an aquarium air pump to pump the gas out of the electrolyser into my vaporizer jar of plain water through the aerator you can see in the pic for about an hour, then put the "charged" water back in the truck. I don't know if that makes any difference over just using plain distilled water, but I've read a few caes where people seem to think it helps. To visualize the coming apocalypse, imagine, if you will, Oprah & Rosie O'Donnell wrestling for the last rib at an all-you can-eat Bar-B-Q...
Anonymous Coward User ID: 429178 5/7/2008 3:00 AM
Re: Alternative Fuels-Using WATER to convert engine to a hybrid DIY!!
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<== thats who this guy works for. your making an argument with your self dude. Everything your stating has no purpose here. I suggest to re-read the thread.
