farm tractors supposedly had three fuel bowls, one for gas, one for kerosene, one for water to suppress pre-detonation while running kerosene. I'm not completely sure i believe this, no tractor brands were cited, no triple-liquid carburetors were named, but it's sort of a workable sounding scheme
Quoting: Anonymous Coward 429178
Don't know specifically what tractor you might be talking about. The John Deere model "A" built about 1950 +/- had a spark plug and two fuel tanks. One tank had a small amount of gasoline that the tractor was started on. The second tank was larger for kerosene. You ran it until it warmed up or about five minutes and then turned a valve switch to go to kerosene.
There was no water injection option.
However, Studebaker pickup trucks had a water injection option from the factory. This basic principle was used in WWII to give an extra power boost to get heavily laden bombers off the ground. All that happens is the Otto cycle engine works by expansion of air from a fast burning fuel/air explosion. (REMEMBER, air has nitrogen and other components that do not burn)Injecting water into the intake manifold as fine droplets causes excess heat in the cylinder to convert the water to steam which is a very large increase in volume. Now, your Otto cycle engine has been partially converted into a steam engine.
That 1952 Studebaker truck (inline six) got about 22 miles to the gallon and it was a full size box half ton.
Anonymous Coward User ID: 335491 5/7/2008 1:53 PM
Re: Alternative Fuels-Using WATER to convert engine to a hybrid DIY!!
Hey guys, if you're experimenting with these things, put your electrode connections at the BOTTOM of the jar. Make sure they are under water. If your connections are above the water, then they are sitting in the hydroxy gas. One spark from a loose connection, and BOOM.
Important safety tip.....
Anonymous Coward User ID: 429419 5/7/2008 2:09 PM
Re: Alternative Fuels-Using WATER to convert engine to a hybrid DIY!!
Hey guys, if you're experimenting with these things, put your electrode connections at the BOTTOM of the jar. Make sure they are under water. If your connections are above the water, then they are sitting in the hydroxy gas. One spark from a loose connection, and BOOM.
Important safety tip.....
Quoting: dfw 15729
Here's another DO NOT I repeat DO NOT use baking soda!
Baking soda creates chlorine gas so unless you really want to die don't use it!
Use a pure caustic soda instead and make sure there are no extra ingredients.
jerry_frankster User ID: 427712 5/7/2008 2:22 PM
Re: Alternative Fuels-Using WATER to convert engine to a hybrid DIY!!
Earlier in this thread I spoke about possible block damage, we looked at dozens of designs too. I talked to an engineer who took an engine apart after running a system for a year. the caustics in the electrolite were causing block damage. You get micro misting in the H2 stream the mist comes from the electrolizer and carries the caustics into the block. Most sytems out there tell you to use sodium hydroxide or potassiinm hydroxide, "DRAINO", or "RED DEVIL LYE". just save your self the hassel and pore it into your crankcase, that way you only have to wait a short while till you ruin your engine.
Now does injecting hydrogen or "Browns gas" into your vehicles air intake work, yes it does. But be "Very" carefull before you do. Hydrogen burns better than gas or deisel and causes your primary fuel to burn better too. Just make sure your design doesn't include caustics, one design I looked at uses battery acid same problem , another uses sea salt, problem here is not only do you produce hydrogen but the salt beaks down and you produce clorine gas another caustic.
Quoting: Anonymous Coward 399680
I really don see how that is possible considering the PCV valve is keeping some what of an air flow through your crank case and the OIL is cleaning your crank case as the crank is splashing it Everywhere.
Anonymous Coward User ID: 429358 5/7/2008 2:34 PM
Re: Alternative Fuels-Using WATER to convert engine to a hybrid DIY!!
I believe vinegar may be used? It's worth a try. It seems to posses more hydrogen [link to en.wikipedia.org]
CH3COOH
you may get undesired chemicals like carbon but it does contain more hydrogen.
Anonymous Coward User ID: 429358 5/7/2008 3:08 PM
Re: Alternative Fuels-Using WATER to convert engine to a hybrid DIY!!
I believe vinegar may be used? It's worth a try. It seems to posses more hydrogen [link to en.wikipedia.org]
CH3COOH
you may get undesired chemicals like carbon but it does contain more hydrogen.
Quoting: Grower 429082
Thanks, it looks to have more hydrogen and more oxygen.
Anonymous Coward User ID: 429449 5/7/2008 3:13 PM
Re: Alternative Fuels-Using WATER to convert engine to a hybrid DIY!!
I believe vinegar may be used? It's worth a try. It seems to posses more hydrogen [link to en.wikipedia.org]
CH3COOH
you may get undesired chemicals like carbon but it does contain more hydrogen.
Thanks, it looks to have more hydrogen and more oxygen.
Quoting: Anonymous Coward 429358
Yes twice as much! I have a gallon of it for making pickles. I think i will give it a go tonight . I'm new to this stuff too so I'm guessing i would have to add an electrolyte since its distilled?
NOBODY User ID: 115601 5/7/2008 3:15 PM
Re: Alternative Fuels-Using WATER to convert engine to a hybrid DIY!!
IF YOU GUYS ARENT CAREFUL ....YOU AS A COLLECTIVE MIND WILL SOLVE THIS DIY HYDROGEN POWER FOR CARS AND END UP SOLVING THE MAKEBELIEVE ENERGY CRISIS THEREBY RENDERING ENERGY AFFORDABLE AND EFFICIENT AND CLEAN AND ALSO SOLVING THE ECONOMIC COLLAPSE IN THE WEST... BUT ALSO UNDERMINING TPTB AND THEIR STRANGLEHOLD ON POWER VIA ENERGY AND ECONOMICS..... THIS IS A VERY DANGEROUS SITUITION FOR US ALL AS YOU MAY RECALL,,, THE GUY WITH THE WATER POWERED DUNEBUGGY IN 198O'S WHO DIED SHORTLY AFTER SHAIRING HIS SECRETS WITH THE PENTAGON BRASS.... IT MIGHT BE WORTH LOOKING AT HIS PATIENTS AND SEEING HOW HE WAS ABLE TO GET ABUNDANT HYDROGEN FROM DIRECTLY CRACKING WATER FOR ENERGY THAT HE NEEDED NO FUEL / GASOLINE AT ALL. I THINK HE WAS USING ULTRASOUND HIGH FREQUENCY IN THE WATER CHAMBER AND EXOTIC CATALISTS TO HELP CRACK THE HOH MOLECULE.
NOBODY WANTS TO UPSET THE BALLANCE OF POWER BY SOLVING THIS PROBLEM FOR ALL OF HUMANITY .........DO THEY?
NOBODY User ID: 115601 5/7/2008 3:15 PM
Re: Alternative Fuels-Using WATER to convert engine to a hybrid DIY!!
IF YOU GUYS ARENT CAREFUL ....YOU AS A COLLECTIVE MIND WILL SOLVE THIS DIY HYDROGEN POWER FOR CARS AND END UP SOLVING THE MAKEBELIEVE ENERGY CRISIS THEREBY RENDERING ENERGY AFFORDABLE AND EFFICIENT AND CLEAN AND ALSO SOLVING THE ECONOMIC COLLAPSE IN THE WEST... BUT ALSO UNDERMINING TPTB AND THEIR STRANGLEHOLD ON POWER VIA ENERGY AND ECONOMICS..... THIS IS A VERY DANGEROUS SITUITION FOR US ALL AS YOU MAY RECALL,,, THE GUY WITH THE WATER POWERED DUNEBUGGY IN 198O'S WHO DIED SHORTLY AFTER SHAIRING HIS SECRETS WITH THE PENTAGON BRASS.... IT MIGHT BE WORTH LOOKING AT HIS PATIENTS AND SEEING HOW HE WAS ABLE TO GET ABUNDANT HYDROGEN FROM DIRECTLY CRACKING WATER FOR ENERGY THAT HE NEEDED NO FUEL / GASOLINE AT ALL. I THINK HE WAS USING ULTRASOUND HIGH FREQUENCY IN THE WATER CHAMBER AND EXOTIC CATALISTS TO HELP CRACK THE HOH MOLECULE.
NOBODY WANTS TO UPSET THE BALLANCE OF POWER BY SOLVING THIS PROBLEM FOR ALL OF HUMANITY .........DO THEY?
I've just sent the link off to someone else who might be interested in this alternate use of water for fuel. The technic's of it are beyond my background but others might be interested. However I think it's a great idea, and thanks Primordial and the other for posting. Lots of info!
Quoting: Anonymous Coward 369375
Oh absolutely no problem..If you dig around there is a video floatingout there of a group of guys running a small generator on nothing but hydrogen or Browns not sure which, but all they use is an electrolyte and an alloy no electricity. There is also a video out there of a guy running a vehicle on it for a couple mins. Who knows i think it is about HOW much you can make
IF YOU GUYS ARENT CAREFUL ....YOU AS A COLLECTIVE MIND WILL SOLVE THIS DIY HYDROGEN POWER FOR CARS AND END UP SOLVING THE MAKEBELIEVE ENERGY CRISIS THEREBY RENDERING ENERGY AFFORDABLE AND EFFICIENT AND CLEAN AND ALSO SOLVING THE ECONOMIC COLLAPSE IN THE WEST... BUT ALSO UNDERMINING TPTB AND THEIR STRANGLEHOLD ON POWER VIA ENERGY AND ECONOMICS..... THIS IS A VERY DANGEROUS SITUITION FOR US ALL AS YOU MAY RECALL,,, THE GUY WITH THE WATER POWERED DUNEBUGGY IN 198O'S WHO DIED SHORTLY AFTER SHAIRING HIS SECRETS WITH THE PENTAGON BRASS.... IT MIGHT BE WORTH LOOKING AT HIS PATIENTS AND SEEING HOW HE WAS ABLE TO GET ABUNDANT HYDROGEN FROM DIRECTLY CRACKING WATER FOR ENERGY THAT HE NEEDED NO FUEL / GASOLINE AT ALL. I THINK HE WAS USING ULTRASOUND HIGH FREQUENCY IN THE WATER CHAMBER AND EXOTIC CATALISTS TO HELP CRACK THE HOH MOLECULE.
NOBODY WANTS TO UPSET THE BALLANCE OF POWER BY SOLVING THIS PROBLEM FOR ALL OF HUMANITY .........DO THEY?
Quoting: NOBODY 115601
Yes. I do. The "powers that be" is going to come to an end Via the cycle....Besides i don't think we fully understand what we are doing to our home(earth) by draining the crud oil from its skin...and replacing it with water? what the fuck? how stupid is that?That would be like draining you of water and replacing it with mountain dew or Dr pepper mmmmm dr pepper
i too have researched this everytime the gas prices go up, i mean it sounds all good,
but there are a lot of possible drawbacks, one of them being engine rusting and failure
they tried this on mythbusters too to no avail
i smelled scam when i read the first article and was waiting for the op to post the link to the unit he was obviously selling, and then it came up
pretty expensive for a kit u can supposedly make by yourself
Quoting: Anonymous Coward 429068
Im not selling any units hell i havent even made one yet LOL
The names I posted were just screen names of other people I found on youtube that may be of intrest there are alot of em out there! And no if browns gas is introduced as a supplement then it will not rust the engine, What do you see dripping out of your muffler now? water! So ther already is some degree of moisture in the system, now running pure hydrogen on an engine i dont know whatthe repercussions would be yet..
But for the record i am NOT selling anything just sharing knowledge! ;-)
I suggest that anonymous Coward 429068 go back and read this thread from start to finish. Mythbusters put a very very small cell onto a electronic fuel injected vehicle. The fuel injectors are controlled by a series of computer components with the oxygen sensor being the main thing. If you do not trick the oxygen sensor you will see the opposite effects of what your intending to make.Myth busters did not do this. All these links to you tube etc are providing you with the knowledge to build your own. Hence the DIY on the title of this thread. Not "buy my product then DIY"
has run an auto engine on a stand on pure Brown's gas supplied by electrolyzer units driven from electrical mains. (not overunity nor free)
They have run engines for hours for testing purposes on pure Brown's gas.
What precisely makes hydrogen "Brown's" gas? Electrolysis of water has been known forever.
Quoting: Anonymous Coward 256741
It is called Browns (named after Yull Brown) gas because it is not just hydrogen it is H H O as in H2O yes your breaking up the molecules but all of the broken molecules are going into the engine, so this when we say an HHO system we arent seperating the oxygen fromt he mix were are adding it all to the intake.
As a matter as a fact im telling you guys NOT to buy premade ones as they dont produce the same effect on different vehicles. The best thing you could do is go buy a lab suit and some nerd glasses and put some tape on them in the middle and have at it! My first setup was 6 stainless steel electrical wall covers from home depot. cost me 48 cents each and a battery charger or even a battery
As a matter as a fact im telling you guys NOT to buy premade ones as they dont produce the same effect on different vehicles. The best thing you could do is go buy a lab suit and some nerd glasses and put some tape on them in the middle and have at it! My first setup was 6 stainless steel electrical wall covers from home depot. cost me 48 cents each and a battery charger or even a battery
Now I'm teaching my self the electrical components to make high voltage and low ampere. While i do that i will be looking for cash or stainless steel donations to further my projects. Also currently trying out 3ds Max to draw out some plans.
Any takers want to explain what is needed to step up voltage with out using a dc-ac converter? A stun gun uses a 9volt battery to produce a 1 million volt charge. How? i have one right in front of me in pieces. Any electrical buffs here?
scimitar I Just wanna know User ID: 373365 5/7/2008 9:52 PM
Re: Alternative Fuels-Using WATER to convert engine to a hybrid DIY!!
Any takers want to explain what is needed to step up voltage with out using a dc-ac converter? A stun gun uses a 9volt battery to produce a 1 million volt charge. How? i have one right in front of me in pieces. Any electrical buffs here?
Quoting: Grower
I'm not sure at the moment what this has to do with the thread, but a quickly collapsing magnetic field across an inductor will produce a voltage proportional to speed of collapse, if this is inductively coupled through a step up transformer the voltages can be very high...... however it does not approach a million volts.
edit: Okay I see your previous post. I would suggest that you are on the correct approach by using high voltage pulses to ellicit the bipolar nature of the water molecule to stretch the Oxygen and Hydrogen bonds into breaking. This was Stanley Meyers concept. One Truth.... many realities
Grower User ID: 429597 5/7/2008 10:26 PM
Re: Alternative Fuels-Using WATER to convert engine to a hybrid DIY!!
For what its worth it is only for test purposes, but I have made a test cell.
I went to Home Depot and I bought:
2 stainless steel switch cover blanks @ 1.49 ea
1 Pair of jumper wires 10 guage @ 2.00
1 small bag of long stainless steel 1/4 bolts @ 5.00
1 box of baking soda (forgot how much) lol
Ok so I filled a pitcher of water, and added 1 tspn of baking soda. Stirred until diluted. I first used two stainless steel bolts as electrodes and hooked jumper wires to them. And the other end of the jumpers I attaced to an 18v drill battery fully charged.
Very cool results! These bolts started bubbling all sorts of good things lol! Then I used the two stainless switch covers. Heres what i found out so far:
The bolts seemed to bubble alot faster but it seems like the plates were slower yet looked like it made more. Not sure yet till I an measure the volume.
The reason i did this is to see which configuration of a cell may work more efficent. A plate configuration or a tube configuration. Now to EVEIL TWIN I want to try the wire coil set-up as well, as it seems yours produces pretty good to.
I am going to make a youtube account geared towards HHO testing and as soon as I do (in the next day or so) I will start posting pics and videos!
Grower User ID: 429597 5/8/2008 12:10 PM
Re: Alternative Fuels-Using WATER to convert engine to a hybrid DIY!!
The more you use the stainless steel covers the more they will produce the electrolysis. So give it a good run for about 20 mins and they should be producing more and more. Here is mine that i made in 10 mins. I use zip ties in between the plates. and the electrical set up had no N plates. it went +-+-+-.
No its not boiling the water. Yes its very cool to the touch at this point.
Watching User ID: 429969 5/8/2008 1:20 PM
Re: Alternative Fuels-Using WATER to convert engine to a hybrid DIY!!
I've read this thread from begining to end and thank all those that have posted their experiences. I've followed very few of the links and was wondering if there was a source of discussion and further information free. I've seen some online books for sale, but feel that I'd like to try a sample experiment before outlaying my cash.
Also there seems to be many applications, some seem more legit then others. I mean I understand feeding HHO if it is combustable into the engine somehow, but what is a 'bubbler' needed for? And if this HHO gas is sooo combustable, light weight and easy to produce, why not just create an engine that runs completely on HHO? This seems like the holy grail right there, but I do see the great stride it would take and how a hybrid does prove the usefulness of fuel.
Just for kicks, I tied a couple paper clips to a 9v batter and stuck the clips in a paper cup of bottled water. After a couple minutes tiny bubble started to form around one probe. Did I make HHO in some small form? Would this be amplified if I added baking soda?
The more you use the stainless steel covers the more they will produce the electrolysis. So give it a good run for about 20 mins and they should be producing more and more. Here is mine that i made in 10 mins. I use zip ties in between the plates. and the electrical set up had no N plates. it went +-+-+-.
No its not boiling the water. Yes its very cool to the touch at this point.
Quoting: Grower 429597
Nice vid Grower thanks! yeah I heard that N plates really dont make enough difference to have them. Also as soona s I get some thinner 316L I wonder if that will make any difference as far as a thinner thickness in production of HHO??! The plates are thicker than I thought so Ill save that for a rainy day when i can aquire some. Another though i was going to try was on the positive side have a connection at the top AND bottom and same for the negative and see if that helps distribute the electrolysis better in the plates.
I've read this thread from begining to end and thank all those that have posted their experiences. I've followed very few of the links and was wondering if there was a source of discussion and further information free. I've seen some online books for sale, but feel that I'd like to try a sample experiment before outlaying my cash.
Also there seems to be many applications, some seem more legit then others. I mean I understand feeding HHO if it is combustable into the engine somehow, but what is a 'bubbler' needed for? And if this HHO gas is sooo combustable, light weight and easy to produce, why not just create an engine that runs completely on HHO? This seems like the holy grail right there, but I do see the great stride it would take and how a hybrid does prove the usefulness of fuel.
Just for kicks, I tied a couple paper clips to a 9v batter and stuck the clips in a paper cup of bottled water. After a couple minutes tiny bubble started to form around one probe. Did I make HHO in some small form? Would this be amplified if I added baking soda?
TIA
Quoting: Watching 429969
You absolutely did make HHO one paperclip is full of hydrogen bubble and the other full of oxygen bubbles. using a battery the process is alot slower, now if you took a drill battery with a dash of baking soda added you might see a great increase in production! try it and be safe!
A bubbler is used as a safety precaution instead of your combustible engine getting fed directly from the HHO cell you are routing the HHO through a container with water. Also the amount of moisture going into the engine is reduced. if you watch the videos the cell itself when turned on looks like its producing a foam like substance the bubble kinda of clears that up for you as well.
As for free info theres alot of that going on, start on youtube type in water engine in the seach box then start following the similar videos, you will see so many ideas out there goingon right now. You can google it. I do not intend to pay someone 300-1000 dollars for a premade system when i know with a few dollars I can basically do the same thing, just might not look as pretty LOL.
A few car makers have made pure hydrogen vehicles but it is very complicated, also remember this is different HHO is NOT just hydrogen it is also oxygen, the way alot of us are trying to apply it is as a supplement to UP out MPG!
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