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The Nabka, the holocaust on the Palestinians in 1948, Israel says they'll get their state only if they forget this word ... | |
| FreeFlow Offer Upgrade  User ID: 51202  Austria05/17/2008 05:31 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 426149  United Kingdom05/17/2008 07:08 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: The Nabka, the holocaust on the Palestinians in 1948, Israel says they'll get their state only if they forget this word ... How 'Nakba' Proves There's No Palestinian Nation By Steven Plaut Over the past few years, the term nakba (also spelled naqba) has become the favorite nonsense word of the Anti-Israel Lobby. Meaning “catastrophe” in Arabic, it has been embraced by anti-Semites all over the planet to refer to Israel’s creation, which supposedly imposed a “catastrophe” upon the “disenfranchised Palestinian Arabs.” Of course, the real catastrophe that befell the Arabs in 1948-49 was that they failed in their attempt to annihilate Israel and exterminate its population, and for that they paid a price. Meanwhile, Nakba Nonsense has been spreading. Google finds over 85,000 web pages referring to Israel’s creation as a “nakba,” and a Yahoo search finds even more than that. The anti-Israel web magazine Counterpunch cannot mention Israel without using the term. Even Israel’s leftist minister of education, Yuli Tamir, has ordered that the nakba be taught as partof the curriculum in Israeli schools, where Israel’s schoolchildren can be taught to mourn their own country’s existence. (Tamir, who was previously a professor of education at Tel Aviv University, is so bizarre that in the summer of 1996 she published an article in the Boston Review defending female circumcision in the Third World and denouncing those who expressed disgust at the practice – see [link to bostonreview.net] Nakba ceremonies are now held each year by leftist professors at Israeli universities who mourn the very creation and existence of their country. The nakba of the late 1940’s and 1950’s that befell large numbers of Jews living in Arab countries who were suddenly expelled, persecuted, and stripped of their property does not interest such people. Those Jewish refugees made new homes in Israel and actually outnumbered the Palestinians who fled. Meanwhile, an urban legend has been fabricated about the origin of the term “nakba” – a fairy tale that claims the word was a banner waved by Palestinians starting in 1948, and that its very use shows how deep the roots of “Palestinian nationality” go. So here is a little current events quiz: What is the real origin of the term “nakba” and what is its original meaning? If you get the answer to the quiz wrong – in other words, if you say it refers to the events of 1948 – you are in very good company. I myself would have flunked the quiz up until a few days ago, when I stumbled on the correct answer. Not only does the bandying about of the “nakba” nonsense word not point to any “depths of roots of Palestinian nationality,” it proves the very opposite: namely, that there is no such thing as a Palestinian nation or nationality at all. The authoritative source on the origin of “nakba” is none other than George Antonius, supposedly the first “official historian of Palestinian nationalism.” Like so many “Palestinians,” he actually wasn’t – Palestinian, that is. He was a Christian Lebanese-Egyptian who lived for a while in Jerusalem, where he composed his official advocacy/history of Arab nationalism. The Arab Awakening, a highly biased book, was published in 1938 and for years afterward was the official text used at British universities. Antonius was an “official Palestinian representative” to Britain, trying to argue the cause for creating an Arab state in place of any prospective homeland promised the Jews under the Balfour Declaration of 1917. By the 1930’s Antonius was an active anti-Zionist propagandist, and as such was offered a job at Columbia University (where some things don’t seem to change much). He served as an academic fig leaf for xenophobic Arab nationalists seeking to deny Jews any right to self-determination in or migration to the Land of Israel. And he was closely associated with the Grand Mufti, Hitler’s main Islamic ally, and also with the pro-German regime in Iraq in the early 1940’s. Antonius was so passionately anti-Zionist that he continues to serve as the hero and mentor of Jewish leftist anti-Zionists everywhere. For example, the late Hebrew University sociology professor Baruch Kimmerling relied on Antonius at length in his own pseudo-history, Palestinians: The Making of a People (Free Press, 1993). So how does Antonius provide us with the answer to the current-events quiz concerning the origin of “nakba”? The term was not invented in 1948 but rather in 1920. And it was coined not because of Palestinians suddenly getting nationalistic but because Arabs living in Palestine regarded themselves as Syrian and were enraged at being cut off from their Syrian homeland. Before World War I, the entire Levant – including what is now Israel, the “occupied territories,” Jordan, Lebanon and Syria – was comprised of Ottoman Turkish colonies. When Allied forces drove the Turks out of the Levant, the two main powers, BritainFrance, divided the spoils between them. Britain got Palestine, including what is now Jordan, while France got Lebanon and Syria. and The problem was that the Palestinian Arabs saw themselves as Syrians and were seen as such by other Syrians. The Palestinian Arabs were enraged that an artificial barrier was being erected within their Syrian homeland by the infidel colonial powers – one that would divide northern Syrian Arabs from southern Syrian Arabs, the latter being those who were later misnamed “Palestinians.” The bulk of the Palestinian Arabs had in fact migrated to Palestine from Syria and Lebanon during the previous two generations, largely to benefit from the improving conditions and job opportunities afforded by Zionist immigration and capital flowing into the area. In 1920, both sets of Syrian Arabs, those in Syria and those in Palestine, rioted violently and murderously. On page 312 of The Arab Awakening, Antonius writes, “The year 1920 has an evil name in Arab annals: it is referred to as the Year of the Catastrophe (Am al-Nakba). It saw the first armed risings that occurred in protest against the post-War settlement imposed by the Allies on the Arab countries. In that year, serious outbreaks took place in Syria, Palestine, and Iraq.” Yes, the answer to our little quiz is 1920, not 1948. That’s 1920 – when there was no Zionist state, no Jewish sovereignty, no “settlements” in “occupied territories,” no Israel Defense Forces, no Israeli missiles and choppers targeting terror leaders, and no Jewish control over Jerusalem (which had a Jewish demographic majority going back at least to 1850). The original “nakba” had nothing to do with Jews, and nothing to do with demands by Palestinian Arabs for self-determination, independence and statehood. To the contrary, it had everything to do with the fact that the Palestinian Arabs saw themselves as Syrians. They rioted at this nakba – at this catastrophe– because they found deeply offensive the very idea that they should be independent from Syria and Syrians. In the 1920’s, the very suggestion that Palestinian Arabs constituted a separate ethnic nationality was enough to send those same Arabs out into the streets to murder and plunder violently in outrage. If they themselves insisted they were simply Syrians who had migrated to the Land of Israel, by what logic are the Palestinian Arabs deemed entitled to their own state today? Palestinian Arabs are no more a nation and no more entitled to their own state than are the Arabs of Detroit or of Paris. They certainly are not entitled to four different states: Jordan, Hamastan in Gaza, a PLO state in the West Bank, and Israel converted into yet another Arab state via the granting of a “right of return” to Arab refugees. Speaking of Palestinians as Syrians, it is worth noting what one of the early Syrian nationalists had to say. The following quote comes from the great-grandfather of the current Syrian dictator, Bashar Assad: “Those good Jews brought civilization and peace to the Arab Muslims, and they dispersed gold and prosperity over Palestine without damage to anyone or taking anything by force. Despite this, the Muslims declared holy war against them and did not hesitate to massacre their children and women…. Thus a black fate awaits the Jews and other minorities in case the Mandates are canceled and Muslim Syria is united with Muslim Palestine.” That statement is from a letter sent to the French prime minister in June 1936 by six Syrian Alawi notables (the Alawis are the ruling class in Syria today) in support of Zionism. Bashar’s great-grandfather was one of them. Steven Plaut is a professor at the Graduate School of the Business Administration at the University of Haifa and is a columnist for the Jewish Press. A collection of his commentaries on the current events in Israel can be found on his "blog" at www.stevenplaut.blogspot.com. |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 426901  Australia05/17/2008 08:10 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: The Nabka, the holocaust on the Palestinians in 1948, Israel says they'll get their state only if they forget this word ... WoW !! almost every sentence in this article is an outright lies or a complete distortion of fact. this guy is a propagandist in the league of Soviet propagandist Ilya Ehrenburg "he was hired to write Soviet propaganda. He a was prominent member of the Jewish Anti-Fascist Committee. ' How 'Nakba' Proves There's No Palestinian Nation Quoting: Anonymous Coward 426149By Steven Plaut Over the past few years, the term nakba (also spelled naqba) has become the favorite nonsense word of the Anti-Israel Lobby. Meaning “catastrophe” in Arabic, it has been embraced by anti-Semites all over the planet to refer to Israel’s creation, which supposedly imposed a “catastrophe” upon the “disenfranchised Palestinian Arabs.” Of course, the real catastrophe that befell the Arabs in 1948-49 was that they failed in their attempt to annihilate Israel and exterminate its population, and for that they paid a price. Meanwhile, Nakba Nonsense has been spreading. Google finds over 85,000 web pages referring to Israel’s creation as a “nakba,” and a Yahoo search finds even more than that. The anti-Israel web magazine Counterpunch cannot mention Israel without using the term. Even Israel’s leftist minister of education, Yuli Tamir, has ordered that the nakba be taught as partof the curriculum in Israeli schools, where Israel’s schoolchildren can be taught to mourn their own country’s existence. (Tamir, who was previously a professor of education at Tel Aviv University, is so bizarre that in the summer of 1996 she published an article in the Boston Review defending female circumcision in the Third World and denouncing those who expressed disgust at the practice – see [link to bostonreview.net] Nakba ceremonies are now held each year by leftist professors at Israeli universities who mourn the very creation and existence of their country. The nakba of the late 1940’s and 1950’s that befell large numbers of Jews living in Arab countries who were suddenly expelled, persecuted, and stripped of their property does not interest such people. Those Jewish refugees made new homes in Israel and actually outnumbered the Palestinians who fled. Meanwhile, an urban legend has been fabricated about the origin of the term “nakba” – a fairy tale that claims the word was a banner waved by Palestinians starting in 1948, and that its very use shows how deep the roots of “Palestinian nationality” go. So here is a little current events quiz: What is the real origin of the term “nakba” and what is its original meaning? If you get the answer to the quiz wrong – in other words, if you say it refers to the events of 1948 – you are in very good company. I myself would have flunked the quiz up until a few days ago, when I stumbled on the correct answer. Not only does the bandying about of the “nakba” nonsense word not point to any “depths of roots of Palestinian nationality,” it proves the very opposite: namely, that there is no such thing as a Palestinian nation or nationality at all. The authoritative source on the origin of “nakba” is none other than George Antonius, supposedly the first “official historian of Palestinian nationalism.” Like so many “Palestinians,” he actually wasn’t – Palestinian, that is. He was a Christian Lebanese-Egyptian who lived for a while in Jerusalem, where he composed his official advocacy/history of Arab nationalism. The Arab Awakening, a highly biased book, was published in 1938 and for years afterward was the official text used at British universities. Antonius was an “official Palestinian representative” to Britain, trying to argue the cause for creating an Arab state in place of any prospective homeland promised the Jews under the Balfour Declaration of 1917. By the 1930’s Antonius was an active anti-Zionist propagandist, and as such was offered a job at Columbia University (where some things don’t seem to change much). He served as an academic fig leaf for xenophobic Arab nationalists seeking to deny Jews any right to self-determination in or migration to the Land of Israel. And he was closely associated with the Grand Mufti, Hitler’s main Islamic ally, and also with the pro-German regime in Iraq in the early 1940’s. Antonius was so passionately anti-Zionist that he continues to serve as the hero and mentor of Jewish leftist anti-Zionists everywhere. For example, the late Hebrew University sociology professor Baruch Kimmerling relied on Antonius at length in his own pseudo-history, Palestinians: The Making of a People (Free Press, 1993). So how does Antonius provide us with the answer to the current-events quiz concerning the origin of “nakba”? The term was not invented in 1948 but rather in 1920. And it was coined not because of Palestinians suddenly getting nationalistic but because Arabs living in Palestine regarded themselves as Syrian and were enraged at being cut off from their Syrian homeland. Before World War I, the entire Levant – including what is now Israel, the “occupied territories,” Jordan, Lebanon and Syria – was comprised of Ottoman Turkish colonies. When Allied forces drove the Turks out of the Levant, the two main powers, BritainFrance, divided the spoils between them. Britain got Palestine, including what is now Jordan, while France got Lebanon and Syria. and The problem was that the Palestinian Arabs saw themselves as Syrians and were seen as such by other Syrians. The Palestinian Arabs were enraged that an artificial barrier was being erected within their Syrian homeland by the infidel colonial powers – one that would divide northern Syrian Arabs from southern Syrian Arabs, the latter being those who were later misnamed “Palestinians.” The bulk of the Palestinian Arabs had in fact migrated to Palestine from Syria and Lebanon during the previous two generations, largely to benefit from the improving conditions and job opportunities afforded by Zionist immigration and capital flowing into the area. In 1920, both sets of Syrian Arabs, those in Syria and those in Palestine, rioted violently and murderously. On page 312 of The Arab Awakening, Antonius writes, “The year 1920 has an evil name in Arab annals: it is referred to as the Year of the Catastrophe (Am al-Nakba). It saw the first armed risings that occurred in protest against the post-War settlement imposed by the Allies on the Arab countries. In that year, serious outbreaks took place in Syria, Palestine, and Iraq.” Yes, the answer to our little quiz is 1920, not 1948. That’s 1920 – when there was no Zionist state, no Jewish sovereignty, no “settlements” in “occupied territories,” no Israel Defense Forces, no Israeli missiles and choppers targeting terror leaders, and no Jewish control over Jerusalem (which had a Jewish demographic majority going back at least to 1850). The original “nakba” had nothing to do with Jews, and nothing to do with demands by Palestinian Arabs for self-determination, independence and statehood. To the contrary, it had everything to do with the fact that the Palestinian Arabs saw themselves as Syrians. They rioted at this nakba – at this catastrophe– because they found deeply offensive the very idea that they should be independent from Syria and Syrians. In the 1920’s, the very suggestion that Palestinian Arabs constituted a separate ethnic nationality was enough to send those same Arabs out into the streets to murder and plunder violently in outrage. If they themselves insisted they were simply Syrians who had migrated to the Land of Israel, by what logic are the Palestinian Arabs deemed entitled to their own state today? Palestinian Arabs are no more a nation and no more entitled to their own state than are the Arabs of Detroit or of Paris. They certainly are not entitled to four different states: Jordan, Hamastan in Gaza, a PLO state in the West Bank, and Israel converted into yet another Arab state via the granting of a “right of return” to Arab refugees. Speaking of Palestinians as Syrians, it is worth noting what one of the early Syrian nationalists had to say. The following quote comes from the great-grandfather of the current Syrian dictator, Bashar Assad: “Those good Jews brought civilization and peace to the Arab Muslims, and they dispersed gold and prosperity over Palestine without damage to anyone or taking anything by force. Despite this, the Muslims declared holy war against them and did not hesitate to massacre their children and women…. Thus a black fate awaits the Jews and other minorities in case the Mandates are canceled and Muslim Syria is united with Muslim Palestine.” That statement is from a letter sent to the French prime minister in June 1936 by six Syrian Alawi notables (the Alawis are the ruling class in Syria today) in support of Zionism. Bashar’s great-grandfather was one of them. Steven Plaut is a professor at the Graduate School of the Business Administration at the University of Haifa and is a columnist for the Jewish Press. A collection of his commentaries on the current events in Israel can be found on his "blog" at www.stevenplaut.blogspot.com. |
| FF (OP) User ID: 51202 Austria05/17/2008 08:15 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: The Nabka, the holocaust on the Palestinians in 1948, Israel says they'll get their state only if they forget this word ... List of Palestinian Localities destroyed after the creation of the State of Israel (1948) up to 1989 by Christoph Uehlinger publ. by Association for the Reconstruction of Emwas Rue du Centre 74 Ch-1025 St-Sulpice Switzerland [link to www.iahushua.com] |
| FF (OP) User ID: 51202 Austria05/17/2008 08:17 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: The Nabka, the holocaust on the Palestinians in 1948, Israel says they'll get their state only if they forget this word ... WoW !! almost every sentence in this article is an outright lies or a complete distortion of fact. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 426901Distortion is the very correct word here ... |
| 89446 User ID: 324503  Romania05/17/2008 08:48 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: The Nabka, the holocaust on the Palestinians in 1948, Israel says they'll get their state only if they forget this word ... Sol Dominvs Imperi Romani Imperium Romanum Sacrum In Varietate Concordia |
| FF (OP) User ID: 51202 Austria05/17/2008 08:51 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| FF (OP) User ID: 51202 Austria05/17/2008 08:53 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| G. House User ID: 434531  United States05/17/2008 08:55 AM  Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: The Nabka, the holocaust on the Palestinians in 1948, Israel says they'll get their state only if they forget this word ... WoW !! almost every sentence in this article is an outright lies or a complete distortion of fact. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 426901this guy is a propagandist in the league of Soviet propagandist Ilya Ehrenburg "he was hired to write Soviet propaganda. He a was prominent member of the Jewish Anti-Fascist Committee. ' And FreeFlow is aspiring to be just like this guy. He constantly distorts text in articles when he crafts his topic titles. How 'Nakba' Proves There's No Palestinian Nation Quoting: Anonymous Coward 426901By Steven Plaut Over the past few years, the term nakba (also spelled naqba) has become the favorite nonsense word of the Anti-Israel Lobby. Meaning “catastrophe” in Arabic, it has been embraced by anti-Semites all over the planet to refer to Israel’s creation, which supposedly imposed a “catastrophe” upon the “disenfranchised Palestinian Arabs.” Of course, the real catastrophe that befell the Arabs in 1948-49 was that they failed in their attempt to annihilate Israel and exterminate its population, and for that they paid a price. Meanwhile, Nakba Nonsense has been spreading. Google finds over 85,000 web pages referring to Israel’s creation as a “nakba,” and a Yahoo search finds even more than that. The anti-Israel web magazine Counterpunch cannot mention Israel without using the term. Even Israel’s leftist minister of education, Yuli Tamir, has ordered that the nakba be taught as partof the curriculum in Israeli schools, where Israel’s schoolchildren can be taught to mourn their own country’s existence. (Tamir, who was previously a professor of education at Tel Aviv University, is so bizarre that in the summer of 1996 she published an article in the Boston Review defending female circumcision in the Third World and denouncing those who expressed disgust at the practice – see [link to bostonreview.net] Nakba ceremonies are now held each year by leftist professors at Israeli universities who mourn the very creation and existence of their country. The nakba of the late 1940’s and 1950’s that befell large numbers of Jews living in Arab countries who were suddenly expelled, persecuted, and stripped of their property does not interest such people. Those Jewish refugees made new homes in Israel and actually outnumbered the Palestinians who fled. Meanwhile, an urban legend has been fabricated about the origin of the term “nakba” – a fairy tale that claims the word was a banner waved by Palestinians starting in 1948, and that its very use shows how deep the roots of “Palestinian nationality” go. So here is a little current events quiz: What is the real origin of the term “nakba” and what is its original meaning? If you get the answer to the quiz wrong – in other words, if you say it refers to the events of 1948 – you are in very good company. I myself would have flunked the quiz up until a few days ago, when I stumbled on the correct answer. Not only does the bandying about of the “nakba” nonsense word not point to any “depths of roots of Palestinian nationality,” it proves the very opposite: namely, that there is no such thing as a Palestinian nation or nationality at all. The authoritative source on the origin of “nakba” is none other than George Antonius, supposedly the first “official historian of Palestinian nationalism.” Like so many “Palestinians,” he actually wasn’t – Palestinian, that is. He was a Christian Lebanese-Egyptian who lived for a while in Jerusalem, where he composed his official advocacy/history of Arab nationalism. The Arab Awakening, a highly biased book, was published in 1938 and for years afterward was the official text used at British universities. Antonius was an “official Palestinian representative” to Britain, trying to argue the cause for creating an Arab state in place of any prospective homeland promised the Jews under the Balfour Declaration of 1917. By the 1930’s Antonius was an active anti-Zionist propagandist, and as such was offered a job at Columbia University (where some things don’t seem to change much). He served as an academic fig leaf for xenophobic Arab nationalists seeking to deny Jews any right to self-determination in or migration to the Land of Israel. And he was closely associated with the Grand Mufti, Hitler’s main Islamic ally, and also with the pro-German regime in Iraq in the early 1940’s. Antonius was so passionately anti-Zionist that he continues to serve as the hero and mentor of Jewish leftist anti-Zionists everywhere. For example, the late Hebrew University sociology professor Baruch Kimmerling relied on Antonius at length in his own pseudo-history, Palestinians: The Making of a People (Free Press, 1993). So how does Antonius provide us with the answer to the current-events quiz concerning the origin of “nakba”? The term was not invented in 1948 but rather in 1920. And it was coined not because of Palestinians suddenly getting nationalistic but because Arabs living in Palestine regarded themselves as Syrian and were enraged at being cut off from their Syrian homeland. Before World War I, the entire Levant – including what is now Israel, the “occupied territories,” Jordan, Lebanon and Syria – was comprised of Ottoman Turkish colonies. When Allied forces drove the Turks out of the Levant, the two main powers, BritainFrance, divided the spoils between them. Britain got Palestine, including what is now Jordan, while France got Lebanon and Syria. and The problem was that the Palestinian Arabs saw themselves as Syrians and were seen as such by other Syrians. The Palestinian Arabs were enraged that an artificial barrier was being erected within their Syrian homeland by the infidel colonial powers – one that would divide northern Syrian Arabs from southern Syrian Arabs, the latter being those who were later misnamed “Palestinians.” The bulk of the Palestinian Arabs had in fact migrated to Palestine from Syria and Lebanon during the previous two generations, largely to benefit from the improving conditions and job opportunities afforded by Zionist immigration and capital flowing into the area. In 1920, both sets of Syrian Arabs, those in Syria and those in Palestine, rioted violently and murderously. On page 312 of The Arab Awakening, Antonius writes, “The year 1920 has an evil name in Arab annals: it is referred to as the Year of the Catastrophe (Am al-Nakba). It saw the first armed risings that occurred in protest against the post-War settlement imposed by the Allies on the Arab countries. In that year, serious outbreaks took place in Syria, Palestine, and Iraq.” Yes, the answer to our little quiz is 1920, not 1948. That’s 1920 – when there was no Zionist state, no Jewish sovereignty, no “settlements” in “occupied territories,” no Israel Defense Forces, no Israeli missiles and choppers targeting terror leaders, and no Jewish control over Jerusalem (which had a Jewish demographic majority going back at least to 1850). The original “nakba” had nothing to do with Jews, and nothing to do with demands by Palestinian Arabs for self-determination, independence and statehood. To the contrary, it had everything to do with the fact that the Palestinian Arabs saw themselves as Syrians. They rioted at this nakba – at this catastrophe– because they found deeply offensive the very idea that they should be independent from Syria and Syrians. In the 1920’s, the very suggestion that Palestinian Arabs constituted a separate ethnic nationality was enough to send those same Arabs out into the streets to murder and plunder violently in outrage. If they themselves insisted they were simply Syrians who had migrated to the Land of Israel, by what logic are the Palestinian Arabs deemed entitled to their own state today? Palestinian Arabs are no more a nation and no more entitled to their own state than are the Arabs of Detroit or of Paris. They certainly are not entitled to four different states: Jordan, Hamastan in Gaza, a PLO state in the West Bank, and Israel converted into yet another Arab state via the granting of a “right of return” to Arab refugees. Speaking of Palestinians as Syrians, it is worth noting what one of the early Syrian nationalists had to say. The following quote comes from the great-grandfather of the current Syrian dictator, Bashar Assad: “Those good Jews brought civilization and peace to the Arab Muslims, and they dispersed gold and prosperity over Palestine without damage to anyone or taking anything by force. Despite this, the Muslims declared holy war against them and did not hesitate to massacre their children and women…. Thus a black fate awaits the Jews and other minorities in case the Mandates are canceled and Muslim Syria is united with Muslim Palestine.” That statement is from a letter sent to the French prime minister in June 1936 by six Syrian Alawi notables (the Alawis are the ruling class in Syria today) in support of Zionism. Bashar’s great-grandfather was one of them. Steven Plaut is a professor at the Graduate School of the Business Administration at the University of Haifa and is a columnist for the Jewish Press. A collection of his commentaries on the current events in Israel can be found on his "blog" at www.stevenplaut.blogspot.com. Good post!! Good to see some truth about the situation posted here for a change. "Everybody lies." |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 426149 United Kingdom05/17/2008 08:56 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: The Nabka, the holocaust on the Palestinians in 1948, Israel says they'll get their state only if they forget this word ... WoW !! almost every sentence in this article is an outright lies or a complete distortion of fact. Quoting: FF 51202Distortion is the very correct word here ... Um... easy to say, especially for those who have no compunction about deliberately deceiving people - but can you back it up? - I don't think so! |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 270862 United States05/17/2008 09:01 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| FF (OP) User ID: 51202 Austria05/17/2008 09:04 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: The Nabka, the holocaust on the Palestinians in 1948, Israel says they'll get their state only if they forget this word ... List of Palestinian Localities destroyed after the creation of the State of Israel (1948) up to 1989 Quoting: FF 51202by Christoph Uehlinger publ. by Association for the Reconstruction of Emwas Rue du Centre 74 Ch-1025 St-Sulpice Switzerland [link to www.iahushua.com] Excerpt: The official topographical maps issued by the State of Israel in the 1950s (1:100'000), inherited from the period of the British mandatory government but overprinted in Hebrew, mention almost 300 destroyed Palestinian localities. Each Palestinian locality having been in a state of destruction and abandonment at that time is marked on these maps by the Hebrew overprint HAROUSS which means 'destroyed, demolished'. |
| jelyrol User ID: 434538  Netherlands05/17/2008 09:11 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: The Nabka, the holocaust on the Palestinians in 1948, Israel says they'll get their state only if they forget this word ... "he was hired to write Soviet propaganda. He a was prominent member of the Jewish Anti-Fascist Committee. Quoting: G. House' And FreeFlow is aspiring to be just like this guy. He constantly distorts text in articles when he crafts his topic titles. Good post!! Good to see some truth about the situation posted here for a change. freeflow aka Hedi is great for her jew bashing and rightly so the jews and christians are the cause of all the worlds problems today |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 434540 United States05/17/2008 09:17 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| FF (OP) User ID: 51202 Austria05/17/2008 09:26 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: The Nabka, the holocaust on the Palestinians in 1948, Israel says they'll get their state only if they forget this word ... List of Palestinian Localities destroyed after the creation of the State of Israel (1948) up to 1989 Quoting: FF 51202by Christoph Uehlinger publ. by Association for the Reconstruction of Emwas Rue du Centre 74 Ch-1025 St-Sulpice Switzerland [link to www.iahushua.com] Excerpt: The official topographical maps issued by the State of Israel in the 1950s (1:100'000), inherited from the period of the British mandatory government but overprinted in Hebrew, mention almost 300 destroyed Palestinian localities. Each Palestinian locality having been in a state of destruction and abandonment at that time is marked on these maps by the Hebrew overprint HAROUSS which means 'destroyed, demolished'. You mega-phoneys aren't able to comment on the above so you have to resort to the usual character smearing tactics, you only prove that you are mere attack dogs with nothing to back up, lol. |
| G. House User ID: 434531 United States05/17/2008 09:29 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: The Nabka, the holocaust on the Palestinians in 1948, Israel says they'll get their state only if they forget this word ... "Everybody lies." |
| G. House User ID: 434531 United States05/17/2008 09:33 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: The Nabka, the holocaust on the Palestinians in 1948, Israel says they'll get their state only if they forget this word ... List of Palestinian Localities destroyed after the creation of the State of Israel (1948) up to 1989 Quoting: FF 51202by Christoph Uehlinger publ. by Association for the Reconstruction of Emwas Rue du Centre 74 Ch-1025 St-Sulpice Switzerland [link to www.iahushua.com] Excerpt: The official topographical maps issued by the State of Israel in the 1950s (1:100'000), inherited from the period of the British mandatory government but overprinted in Hebrew, mention almost 300 destroyed Palestinian localities. Each Palestinian locality having been in a state of destruction and abandonment at that time is marked on these maps by the Hebrew overprint HAROUSS which means 'destroyed, demolished'. You mega-phoneys aren't able to comment on the above so you have to resort to the usual character smearing tactics, you only prove that you are mere attack dogs with nothing to back up, lol. Abandoned when they threw in with the 5 Arab nations that declared war on Israel? Demolished because what was there wasn't worth having? Mega-phoney? Listen up you friggen idiot. Lot's of regular everyday normal people like me see through all the Palestinian propaganda. Has nothing to do with any affiliations. "Everybody lies." |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 434540 United States05/17/2008 09:34 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: The Nabka, the holocaust on the Palestinians in 1948, Israel says they'll get their state only if they forget this word ... They have invented a myth that Jews were massacred and place this above God, religions and the prophets," Ahmadinejad said in a speech to thousands of people in the Iranian city of Zahedan, according to a report on Wednesday from Islamic Republic of Iran Broadcasting. "The West has given more significance to the myth of the genocide of the Jews, even more significant than God, religion, and the prophets," he said. "(It) deals very severely with those who deny this myth but does not do anything to those who deny God, religion, and the prophet." [link to www.cnn.com] |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 434540 United States05/17/2008 09:46 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: The Nabka, the holocaust on the Palestinians in 1948, Israel says they'll get their state only if they forget this word ... Hamas denies holocaust. An excerpt of this press release follows. It is taken from the official website of Hamas (www.palestine-info.org) and is translated from the original Arabic: Following the special international conference in Stockholm concerning the alleged Jewish Holocaust during World War II, a senior leading member of The Islamic Resistance Movement-- Hamas--states the following: This conference bears a clear Zionist goal, aimed at forging history by hiding the truth about the so-called Holocaust, which is an alleged and invented story with no basis. . . . The invention of these grand illusions of an alleged crime that never occurred, ignoring the millions of dead European victims of Nazism during the war, clearly reveals the racist Zionist face, which believes in the superiority of the Jewish race over the rest of the nations. [link to www.washingtoninstitute.org] |
SHR Forum Administrator 05/17/2008 09:47 AM  Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: The Nabka, the holocaust on the Palestinians in 1948, Israel says they'll get their state only if they forget this word ... What I don't understand about FreeFlow considering that he friggen HATES the US and constantly makes distortions and total fabrications about it; that he just doesn't leave and go to one of the benevolent nations he is a constant apologist for. Quoting: G. HouseDone.....sent him to Europe. That's just the kind of service one can expect from GLP! ____________________________________________________ E-mail anytime [email protected] Inquiring about a ban?, include the IP address found here. [link to www.showmemyip.com] Ooooh, see the fire is sweepin' Our very streets today... Burns like a red coal carpet, Mad bulls lost the way... War, children, it's just a shot away...it's just a shot away.... |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 434554 United States05/17/2008 09:49 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: The Nabka, the holocaust on the Palestinians in 1948, Israel says they'll get their state only if they forget this word ... List of Palestinian Localities destroyed after the creation of the State of Israel (1948) up to 1989 Quoting: G. Houseby Christoph Uehlinger publ. by Association for the Reconstruction of Emwas Rue du Centre 74 Ch-1025 St-Sulpice Switzerland [link to www.iahushua.com] Excerpt: The official topographical maps issued by the State of Israel in the 1950s (1:100'000), inherited from the period of the British mandatory government but overprinted in Hebrew, mention almost 300 destroyed Palestinian localities. Each Palestinian locality having been in a state of destruction and abandonment at that time is marked on these maps by the Hebrew overprint HAROUSS which means 'destroyed, demolished'. You mega-phoneys aren't able to comment on the above so you have to resort to the usual character smearing tactics, you only prove that you are mere attack dogs with nothing to back up, lol. Abandoned when they threw in with the 5 Arab nations that declared war on Israel? Demolished because what was there wasn't worth having? Mega-phoney? Listen up you friggen idiot. Lot's of regular everyday normal people like me see through all the Palestinian propaganda. Has nothing to do with any affiliations. |
| FF (OP) User ID: 51202 Austria05/17/2008 10:27 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: The Nabka, the holocaust on the Palestinians in 1948, Israel says they'll get their state only if they forget this word ... Yeah, listen to Gregory, FF...As his credibility/opinion is the GLP equivalent of frozen dog shit....Fucking asshole.... Quoting: Anonymous Coward 434554G-houl has nothing better to do than attack me personally on every occasion since a year, whenever he can't find something else to whine about me he accuses me to be a penguin abuser and that I should get banned for that, he's just so transparent lol. |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 434457  Croatia05/17/2008 10:38 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: The Nabka, the holocaust on the Palestinians in 1948, Israel says they'll get their state only if they forget this word ... What I don't understand about FreeFlow considering that he friggen HATES the US and constantly makes distortions and total fabrications about it; that he just doesn't leave and go to one of the benevolent nations he is a constant apologist for. Quoting: SHRDone.....sent him to Europe. That's just the kind of service one can expect from GLP! Bwahahahahah what a punishment LOL a capital punishment ROFL Europe as a leprosy or convict colony and USofA as a Heaven on Earth a paradise.....LOL there is more civilisation in any EU city ...Rome, Berlin, Madrid, Warsav,Paris, Lyon, Lisaboa, Manchester, Prague, Athens, Budapest, Bratislav ........., than in whole USofA..... as for OP, in EU there is freedom of speeach and you are welcome.... we know what is Holocaust industry and who is cowboy and who is indian, as we know who is good and who is bad. |
| anonomous coward User ID: 434568 United States05/17/2008 10:40 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: The Nabka, the holocaust on the Palestinians in 1948, Israel says they'll get their state only if they forget this word ... The word ‘Nabka’ is acquiring the same tragic ring as the ‘Holocaust’. Which is why Israel’s Foreign Minister is on record as saying there can be no independent Palestinian state unless and until the victims learn to forget the word Quoting: FreeFlowThe Nakba is our Holocaust Khalid Amayreh – Desert Peace May 16, 2008 This morning we saw pictures of the Warsaw ghetto at Yad Vashem and this evening we are going to the Ramallah ghetto.” German Bishop Gregor Maria Franz Hanke during a visit to Ramallah in March 2007. Basking in their usual insolence and self-absorbedness, Israeli leaders have been visibly irate over the highlighted commemoration of the 60th anniversary of the Palestinian Nakba, the destruction and ethnic cleansing of the Palestinian community in 1948. Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni has been quoted as saying that there can be no Palestinian state unless and until the victims learn to forget the word Nakba. “The Palestinians will celebrate their statehood when they erase the word Nakba from their lexicon,” said Livni, whose father, Eitan, who died in 1991, played an active part in effecting the genocidal campaign of murder and terror that culminated in the establishment of Israel. Last year, Livni had the temerity to say that the creation of a Palestinian state on parts of the West Bank would have to address Israel’s Arab citizens. For those unacquainted with Zionist phraseology, the venomous remarks were an obvious allusion to diabolic Zionist designs to ultimately expel more than 1.5 million Israeli Arab citizens whose presence in Palestine predated the establishment of Israel by hundreds if not thousands of years. Similarly, an Israeli diplomat at the UN reportedly complained on Thursday (15 May) that the mere use and circulation of the word Nakba carried a whiff of anti-Semitism, and that the word itself ought to be banned. The obscene raving came after UN Secretary-General Ban Ki Moon telephoned Palestinian Authority Chairman Mahmoud Abbas and expressed empathy with the Palestinian people in honor of the Nakba anniversary. You see the brutal ugliness of the Zionist mentality. They want even to ban the use of words that remind humanity of the greatest theft and act of rape in history, carried out by a people who claim to adhere to the Torah, the Holy Scripture that taught humanity, among other things, “thou shall not steal.” Obviously, Livni, who is now celebrating 60 years of theft and ethnic cleansing, wants her victims, the Palestinians, to forget the Nakba and relate to their own extirpation and deportation from their native homeland, as a rosy event. The evil-minded lady wants us to hail the massacres, the terror, the ethnic cleansing and all the Nazi acts that led to our own destruction, dispossession and dispersion. In short, she wants us to adopt the Zionist narrative and effectively become bona fide or kosher Zionists in order to be accepted as “true peace partners.” But that obviously cannot happen and never will. Indeed, asking Palestinians to forget the Nakba is as outrageous as asking Jews to forget the holocaust. The Nakba, after all, was more or less the Palestinian holocaust. And it still is. How else can the native people of Palestine be expected to relate to the violent seizure of their homeland by brutal East European Zionists, eager to avenge the holocaust? How else can any Palestinian, indeed, any honest human being, relate to the genocidal destruction of Palestine under the pretext that “Jews have got to live somewhere.” As far as I know, true Judaism categorically forbids all forms of theft. But Zionism, which often pays lip service to Judaism and the Torah, has stolen an entire country from its indigenous inhabitants. And the process of stealing and ethnic cleansing is continuing unabated. It is true that Zionism has not yet used gas chambers to liquidate its victims. But Israel is murdering Palestinians in large numbers each and every day. Does a day pass nowadays without a Palestinian child, man or woman being murdered by these thugs and child-killers who call themselves the “Israeli Defense Forces?” Just look at how Israel, which the liar of the White House George Bush was audacious enough to call “a light upon the nations,” is reducing Palestinian towns and villages to real concentration camps, very much like Nazis did at the Ghetto Warsaw. As diabolical as it was, the holocaust lasted only for a few years. Yes, it was a few years of utter hell. We don’t deny this fact despite cynical Zionist efforts to utilize Jewish suffering to inflict comparable suffering on the peoples of the Middle East. But the Palestinian Nakba, although lesser in scope and slower in motion, is still ongoing sixty years later. Palestinians are still being killed, maimed, tormented, humiliated and deported. Palestinian homes are still being demolished; Palestinian farms and orchards are still being bulldozed and decimated; Palestinians are still being blockaded and starved in ways reminiscent of the holocaust. And above all, Palestinian land is still being stolen and raped by Zionism. Today in every junior high school in America, students read Anne Frank, while in every high school Elie Wiesel’s ‘Night’ is requisite reading. This is the man who says brazenly that he readily identifies with Israeli crimes and that he couldn’t bring himself to say bad things about Israel. The victims of the first Kristallnacht enjoy the world’s approbation and sympathy, while at the same time having succeeded in demonizing an entire people, for whom Kristallnacht still remains a night without end. Israel, as Spanish Philosopher Santiago Alba-Rico wrote two years ago, may not be the most unjust and criminal State in History, but it is the one that has been at it for a longer period of time and with greater impunity. And Palestinians may not be the most oppressed people in the history of mankind. But they are undeniably the most uninterruptedly tormented people in modern history. As a people, Palestinians have more or less survived in spite of history. But their very survival shouldn’t be viewed as irreversible given the specter of genocide and obliteration that is still hovering over their heads every morning and every evening. Let us not fool ourselves. The nearly daily statements and remarks and warnings that we keep hearing from Israeli rabbis, politicians and generals are a vivid reminder of similar anti-Jewish statements made seven decades ago in Germany by Nazi figures. In fact, the Holocaust didn’t start with Auschwitz-Birkenau in 1943 or even with Kristallnacht in 1938. It began much earlier with a venomously racist discourse that is very much similar to the present Israeli approach toward the Palestinians. Israel, which has been trying to convince the world, particularly the West, that it must be perpetually dominant, hegemonic and imperial in order to survive, is slowly but surely trying to obliterate the Palestinian people in the name of the holocaust and in the name of “Never Again.” Today, in the name of “Never Again,” Israel is transforming Palestinian towns and villages into concentration camps, where the lives of millions of hopeless and helpless citizens are at the mercy of the moods and whims of Israeli occupation soldiers and officers, very much like the lives of many Jews were once at the mercy of the moods and whims of the Gestapo, SS and the Wehrmacht. Today, the Palestinians are a people without human rights and dignity, without civil rights, without a known fate, and virtually without a future because Zionist Jews have decided to fulfill Jewish nationalism in way similar to the manner in which German supremacists wanted to exercise their nationalism nearly seven decades ago. And as Jews, Russians and other Europeans paid a dear price for the Nazi folly, Palestinians and other peoples of the Middle East have paid and continue to pay a dear price for Zionist madness and fascism. But just as the Germans eventually paid even a dearer price for their own madness, Zionist Jews will undoubtedly will pay a colossal price sooner or later for their wanton criminality and arrogance. This is if they continue to allow themselves to be duped by the big lie called Zionism. Eventually, the dynamics and forces that caused the downfall of Nazism and Stalinism will also bring about the downfall of Zionism. It may take some time, but it will happen. [link to desertpeace.wordpress.com]  |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 434590  Spain05/17/2008 11:29 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: The Nabka, the holocaust on the Palestinians in 1948, Israel says they'll get their state only if they forget this word ... Lies are part of your trdition. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 270862How many Jennins will you cry? Why didnt you fucking let the international observers in then you twat? Why did you block the reporters from international media in then? If there was no carnage why was averyone blocked from going in? Cleaning up the mess before allowing witnesses? |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 270862 United States05/17/2008 12:23 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: The Nabka, the holocaust on the Palestinians in 1948, Israel says they'll get their state only if they forget this word ... Lies are part of your trdition. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 434590How many Jennins will you cry? Why didnt you fucking let the international observers in then you twat? Why did you block the reporters from international media in then? If there was no carnage why was averyone blocked from going in? Cleaning up the mess before allowing witnesses? Encyclopedia of Famous Palestinian Lies The Palestinian use of lies and disinformation has been well known for many years but, in recent days it has reached new heights, the likes of which we have not seen before. The false reports published in the Palestinian media, or by their spokespeople in the international media, have a double purpose: on the one hand, to delegitimize Israel and, on the other hand, to distract world attention from the Palestinian Authority's deep involvement in terrorism. The Palestinian collection of lies is particularly disturbing in light of the well-known phenomenon that when a lie is repeated often enough it becomes the truth, even if it has no basis. Even more disturbing is the willingness of the international media to serve as the instrument for publicizing the Palestinian claims, without checking their veracity and knowing that in many cases they are without foundation. The denials, if they are published later, receive much less publicity; by then, the damage has been done. Below are a few examples of fabrications disseminated by the Palestinians: "The Arafat is in danger" lie One of the most popular themes, arising from the restrictions placed on Arafat (when he was alive), is the fear for the life of the president. On March 31, Yasser Abed Rabo said, in an interview to the Al Jazeera television station, that a warning was received that the IDF would enter the compound in Ramallah, and that this step was planned by Sharon with the intent to kill Yasser Arafat. The same day, Hassan Asfor said to BBC radio that the IDF had broken into Arafat's offices and that the situation was dangerous, "on the brink of disaster". Also on the same day, Saeb Erekat said on Egyptian television that he was unable to make contact with Arafat and that he feared for his life. Erekat repeated this in an interview he gave to CNN on April 6. These fears were all proven to be unfounded. Denying Jewish connection to the Land of Israel According to a statement issued by the Palestinian Ministry of Information, December 10, 1997: 'There is no tangible evidence of any Jewish traces/remains in the old city of Jerusalem and its immediate vicinity' (). 'The Al-Buraq Wall [Western Wall] and its plaza are a Muslim religious property ? [It is] part if the Al Aqsa Mosque. The Jews have no relation to it' (Arafat-appointed Mufti of Jerusalem, Al Ayyam [PA newspaper], November 22, 1997). 'The Al-Buraq wall is Muslim property and it is part of the Al-Aqsa Mosque' (Arafat's Minister of Religious Affairs, Hassan Tahboob, Interview with Israeli Jews Agency IMRA, November 22, 1997) 'That is not the Western Wall at all, but a Moslem shrine' (Arafat, Ma'ariv, Oct. 11, 1996). 'All the events surrounding Kings Saul, David and Rehoboam occured in Yeman, and no Hebrew remnants were found in Israel, for a very simple reason -because they were never there' (Arab historian Jarid al-Kidwa, on PLO education program, June 1997 (quoted in Ha'aretz, July 6, 1997). 'Jerusalem is not a Jewish city, despite the Biblical myth implanted in some minds ? There is no tangible evidence of Jewish existence from the so-called 'Temple Mount Era' ? The location of the Temple Mount is in question ? it might be in Jericho or somewhere else' (Walid Awad, Director of Foreign Publications for the PLO's Ministry of Information, interviewed by the IMRA news agency, Dec. 25, 1996). 'Abraham was neither Jewish nor a Hebrew, but was simply an Iraqi. The Jews have no right to claim part of the Tomb of the Patriarchs in Hebron, Abraham's resting place, as a synagogue. Rather, the whole building should be a mosque' (Arafat, quoted in the Jerusalem Report, Dec. 26, 1996). Denial of the Holocaust 'The persecution of the Jews is a deceitful myth which the Jews have labeled the Holocaust and have exploited to get sympathy' (PA newspaper Al-Hayat AL-Jadeeda, July 2, 1998). 'The Nazis probably killed less than one million Jews and the Zionist movement was a partner in the slaughter' (Quote from a book written by Abu Mazen, Arafat's number 2 man and senior Oslo negotiator). '[The Holocaust] is a forged claim by the Zionists regarding the alleged acts of slaughter perpetrated against the Jews' (PA newspaper, Al-Hayat Al-Jadidah, Sept. 3, 1997). 'It is a well-known fact that every year the Jews exaggerate what the Nazis did to them. They claim there were 6 million killed, but precise scientific research demonstrates that there were no more than 400,000' (PA Television, Aug. 25, 1997). The "massacre" lie Almost every battle wherein terrorists are killed, is called a "massacre". Jibril Rajoub (March 30, on MAHAD TV, a local television station in Ramallah) accused Israel of carrying out a "massacre," executing 30 Palestinians in Ramallah. The announcement was also broadcast on Al Jazeera and other stations. The reality, of course, is different: in battles which took place on that day in Ramallah, 9 Palestinians were killed - all of them armed. The "several priests were killed" lie Palestinian television reported on April 2, on the basis of an official announcement by the Palestinian leadership, that a priest named Jacques Amathis had been killed and dozens of monks wounded in an IDF action in Bethlehem. The announcement was published prominently in the Italian and French media and prompted a storm of protest. The following day the 'late" priest was interviewed by the MINSA agency and confirmed that he and the monks in the monastery were safe and well. The "attack on holy places" lie Arafat, in an interview to Al Jazeera television on April 3, claimed that Israel had "burned the mosque" opposite Santa Maria Church in Bethlehem and "destroyed many churches and mosques." He called upon the Christian and Muslim world to take action. MAHAD TV reported that a fire had broken out in the Omar el-Hatib Mosque in Bethlehem and that the IDF was preventing the fire brigade from reaching the site to extinguish the flames. None of these charges has any factual basis. The WAFA (Palestinian News Agency) Internet site reported on April 2 that the IDF had shelled the new mosque in Tulkarm after the muezzin called people to noon prayers. In fact, no such incident took place. The "wanted terrorists are innocent civilians" lie Jibril Rajoub claimed, in an interview with Syrian television network ANN on March 30, that the only people in the compound of the Preventive Security Services in Betouniya were people working for the service, women and civilians, and that there were no wanted terrorists there. The truth, of course, is somewhat different. On April 2, a number of wanted terrorists were captured in the building, including senior members of Hamas involved in many terrorist activities. The "attack on ambulances" lie On the WAFA Internet site, it was reported on April 2 by the Palestinian Minister of Health, Riyad Al Zanoun, that the IDF had taken control of five Palestinian ambulances in Ramallah, forced their teams to strip, and taken them to an unknown site, in order to prevent them from treating the wounded. In reality, ever since an explosive belt was discovered in a Palestinian ambulance underneath a stretcher on which a small child was lying (end of March, at the A-Ram check post), the IDF has been forced to act with extreme caution. A similar charge, incidentally, was made on April 5 by Al Kuds newspaper, which reported that a Red Crescent ambulance was seized in El Bireh, and that IDF soldiers attacked its driver and the paramedics traveling with him. No such incident has ever taken place. The "attack on international aid workers" lie In an interview with Abu Dhabi television on March 29, Arafat claimed that "there was also that incident in Hebron, that insolent and criminal incident; they even attacked and killed in the Hebron area three members of the international force: two from Turkey and one of the nurses from Switzerland." In fact, in the incident in question, one of the Turkish members of the force was rescued, and he said, in a radio interview, that the attack was carried out by an uniformed Palestinian. The "systematic torture of prisoners" lie The Al Kuds newspaper reported on April 5 that the prisoners in Ofer Camp, near Givat Ze'ev, undergo torture, including breaking their fingers. This allegation too has no basis. Accusing Israel when terrorist actions fail Two examples: The WAFA news agency reported on April 6 that a person named Ali Mustafa Abu Razek, aged 30, was shot and killed by the IDF close to the Sufa Crossing. In fact, Abu Razek was a terrorist who was trying to place an explosive device and was blown up together with the device. The WAFA agency reported on April 5 that the IDF shelled the Um Nasser neighborhood, the Al Udeh towers and the residential areas near the Salah a Din road in the northern Gaza Strip. The reality was somewhat different - the mortar shells were fired by the Palestinians themselves, but landed in their own territory. The "spreading of pornography" lie At the beginning of the events, IDF soldiers were accused of broadcasting pornographic films on Al Watan television in Ramallah. This claim was thoroughly investigated by the IDF and found to be baseless. The "use of radioactive weapons" lie Arafat has accused Israel several times of using radioactive shells. Never was any radiation measured. The "forging of documents" lie On April 5 Nabil Sha'ath claimed in the Saudi 'Okaz' that Israel had forged the document seized from Arafat's office in Ramallah indicating that the Palestinian Authority was funding the Al Aksa Martyrs Brigade. The document is of course authentic, and in the meantime other documents have been found indicating the involvement of the Palestinian Authority and of Arafat in terrorism and in its funding. The "Jenin massacre" lie The most famous Palestinian lie of the year 2002 (up till now!) is no doubt that on the number of Palestinian casualties as a result of the fighting in the Jenin refugee camp during Operation Defensive Shield. After the capture of the Jenin refugee camp in April 2002, Palestinians claimed a massacre had occurred in in the camp, with up to 3000 deaths. Also Arafat's Chief Liar Saeb Erekat accused Israel of a "massacre" and published the number of 520 deaths, a lie happily repeated by the media. Israel claimed that about 52 Palestinians were killed, of whom the majority were terrorists. Afterwards, independent teams of the United Nations, Human Right Watch, Cordaid and Amnesty International confirmed the Israeli estimations and concluded that no massacre had taken place. The UN reported that the number of Palestinian fatalities can be estimated at around 55. Of those, a number were civilians, four were women and two children. This did not prevent BBC and CNN to continue repeating these claims. The "total devastation of Jenin" lie The damage and destruction of buildings in the Jenin refugee camp in April 2002, as a result of the fierce fighting between Palestinian terrorists and Israel Defense Forces, was described by the Palestinians as "total destruction of Jenin". Western media used terms like 'Hiroshima', 'moonlandscape' etc. The Israel Air Force published aerial pictures proving that about 6 % of the Jenin camp was destroyed. Organizing fake funerals Pictures have been taken by remote cameras of Palestinians organizing fake "funerals" in preparation for the UN committee's visit to Jenin. It is not difficult to guess how the UN committee's conclusions could have been influenced by these lies. |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 434590 Spain05/17/2008 12:29 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 270862 United States05/17/2008 01:15 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: The Nabka, the holocaust on the Palestinians in 1948, Israel says they'll get their state only if they forget this word ... Sure well all believe YOU. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 434590 When faced with truth and one denies, truth was never their adgenda. Believe this........ Two years ago, spurred to act by a series of suicide bombings that took the lives of some 87 Israeli citizens and wounded 570 others, the Israeli Defense Force attacked what it believed to be a terrorist stronghold in the heart of the West Bank town of Jenin, a place of densely packed buildings and labyrinthine alleys and home to a close-knit core of Palestinian fighters thought to be responsible for 25 per cent of the bombings. What happened that day was said to be a massacre on the scale of Bosnia, Kosovo and Chechnya, with entire buildings flattened and hundreds of Palestinian civilians killed. People around the world assumed this to be true because United Nations aid workers, The Independent, the Times of London, The Guardian, BBC News and a host of other media organizations across Europe reported it to be so. "Massacre evidence growing," a headline on BBC's website blared on April 18, 2002. There was just one small problem. None of that happened. The truth would come out eventually, Canadian reporter Martin Himel reports in his new documentary, Jenin: Massacring Truth. But the damage was done. The myth of the massacre endures to this day, even though the BBC was backpedalling within days of the initial reports. Little more than 10 days after accusations of a massacre were posted on the BBC's website, British military expert David Holley, a major in the British Territorial Army and military adviser to Amnesty International, was quoted on the same site saying Israel was right to challenge the UN observers' claims. Holley cited numbers closer to "possibly 54 bodies. . . with possibly 20 or 30 unaccounted for." He could not verify those figures until the entire site was cleared. Massacre is an overused word, Holley said, and not very helpful in situations like that. Three months later, in August 2002, the United Nations and Human Rights Watch put the final fatality figures at 26 Palestinian fighters, 26 civilians and 23 Israeli soldiers. But the genie was out of the bottle, and once out, it would prove next to impossible to put back in. The "massacre" is now part of the historical record, promulgated in part by a Palestinian documentary film, Jenin, Jenin, that equated the Israeli incursion into the town with war crimes and ethnic cleansing, and by the refusal of many European journalists who covered the initial story to admit they got the facts wrong. Himel chose to make his documentary through the eyes and recollections of an Israeli reservist, Johnathan Van Caspel, a man who has felt the stain of being branded a war criminal. Himel managed to get his hands on camcorder footage taken by both Van Caspel's unit and, remarkably, that of Palestinian fighters in the Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigade, to take viewers inside what in actuality was a nasty urban firefight, full of frenzied confusion and near-panic. "I tried to put the (viewer) right into what it's like to fight urban warfare, to be in it," Himel explained by phone from Israel. "The unusual thing in this film is that the fighting was filmed by the fighters on both sides. Today, with these little home video cameras, instead of people taking stills of their buddies in war, they can actually film the war. "What I tried to do was put the viewer right in there. And what I mean by that is, it's confusing. You don't see the enemy. "You don't know where the bullets are coming from. It's scary. No one really knows what's going on. And that's really what it's like." Himel wanted his film to reflect both the macro view and the micro view of what happened that day in Jenin. The micro view is the personal story of an Israeli reservist who is still mourning the death of friends who died in the heat of battle, their memory stained by lingering accusations of a massacre. The macro view is the wider story of how the media cover conflict zones, and how so many journalists managed to get this story wrong. "Today, with live TV and instant deadlines and the Internet, in some sense we are demanding clarity of every situation that we see," Himel said. "But situations like this are very unclear. And because of that, a lot of information you get is also very unclear. This is a classic case." Himel's film includes interviews with Palestinian fighters in the Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigade who were there at the time -- ironically, Himel says, Palestinian fighters are far more forthcoming than many of the journalists he tried to talk to -- as well as senior editors at BBC-TV; The Independent's senior defense correspondent, Kim Sengupta; the Daily Telegraph's David Blair (who defends his view of events by saying he reported what he saw and merely reiterated first-hand accounts of Jenin residents he talked to); the Toronto Star's Olivia Ward, who disputes the accuracy of some of the conclusions drawn at the time; and the Times of London's Janine di Giovanni. "The interesting thing is that, of all the people I interviewed, the one thing they all agreed on, without exception, was that where the journalist is coming from, his background, etc., has a big impact on how he reports things," says Himel. "They all say, and I agree with them, that in many respects, objectivity is a fiction. It's not that we're not trying to give an accurate picture of what's going on, but we all come from somewhere. And that's something we all have to realize. "The truth is, though, that some journalists have bigger axes to grind than others, on all sides. And that comes into play here, definitely -- especially in a case like Jenin." BBC's initial reports of a massacre were the most damaging, because BBC is widely considered to be the standard bearer for reportage from the world's combat zones. BBC News assignment editor Malcolm Downing tells Himel in the film that, because of its reputation, people are naturally inclined to believe that what the BBC says to be true is true. "Like everybody, we make mistakes," Downing tells Himel in the film, "and we try to own up to them when we do. . . The correction is lying behind, though. We never catch up. That's true of everybody else, as well as us." In an ideal world, Himel says, rival media organizations would take a step back and agree not to jump to conclusions until they have a better grasp on what's going on. "But that's not going to happen. We're all going to come up with our stories as fast as possible, especially in the age of live TV." The difference, Himel says, for people who really want to be informed and are willing to make an effort, is whether the reporter's approach involves a healthy level of skepticism or whether the reporter is willing to accept first-person testimony -- 'I saw this, I saw that' -- at face value. BBC showed little skepticism toward initial claims of massacre from the Palestinian side, Himel says, whereas CNN's domestic service was more circumspect. In an interview with Palestinian senior negotiator Saeb Erekat, CNN's anchor at the time asked if Erekat would return and retract his statement if initial claims of more than 500 casualties proved to be inaccurate. "If (Israeli claims of 70 casualties) are right and your initial numbers were wrong, will you come back here on our network and retract what you said?" "Absolutely," Erekat said. "Absolutely. And I hope the numbers will be nothing. I hope the numbers will be zero." In a later interview with Himel, Erekat admitted he made a mistake. "On that day, the Red Cross was not permitted to go to Jenin," Erekat told Himel. "Foreign journalists were kicked out of the Jenin area. . . Martin, we've known each other for the last 25 years. This is the only time I've said I've made a mistake, in all my interrogations." But first impressions stick, veteran BBC correspondent James Reynolds tells Himel in the film. "Going around the world right now, if one was to ask anyone who watched the news of it, what do they think of Jenin, they think 'Jenin massacre'," Reynolds tells Himel. "Those two words are linked. First impressions are very important. And perhaps, despite all the other reporting at the end, they are never rubbed out." Himel says he knows critics will question his own point of view before they even see his film. The difference between his film and blanket media coverage of the Israeli incursion into Jenin, he says, is that he went out of his way to get the other side of the story, even going so far as to risk his personal safety by tracking down and querying Palestinian fighters. Many European journalists at Jenin didn't bother to talk to Israeli soldiers and their commanders after the fighting, Himel says, even though they were standing just meters away. "I thought it was extremely important to do what these other journalists did not do," Himel says. "When they were in Jenin, they spoke to Palestinians who gave them a very graphic account, which turned out to be inaccurate. They did not take those graphic accounts and then sit with Johnathan Van Caspel or with the Israeli IDF and really ask them what their side was, and bring an equal version out of it. They didn't. I really felt that if I was going to put Johnathan Van Caspel's side out there, I really had to get a hold of the people who were fighting against Johnathan Van Caspel. Which I did. Which is not simple." The controversy over Jenin hints at a deeper, wider issue, however, and that is the entire tone of media coverage on Israel and the Middle East. "What's really going on here is confusing, because the real dialogue is not whether there was a massacre or not a massacre," Himel says. "The real dialogue is: Is Israel or Palestine legitimate or not legitimate? It's all a matter of point of view. For people who feel Israel is an illegitimate state, it doesn't matter if it was one person here and two people there. Whatever Israel does is going to be wrong, because it's an illegitimate country. "That's the real discussion. The massacre thing just echoes the real discussion. Sometimes I say to myself that everything would be better if we just had the real discussion." The documentary is available for purchase at: [link to www.canada.com] |
| Akingu88 User ID: 434635 United States05/17/2008 01:25 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: The Nabka, the holocaust on the Palestinians in 1948, Israel says they'll get their state only if they forget this word ... At least we know that these people actually HAD a "holocaust". The two-faced, back-stabbing jews can't decide whether or not it was 9 million or 6 million or now the 1.5 milion or the 700,000 they actually KNOW died, but don't talk about about since the numbers are so low. If the jew holohoax actually happened we would be celebrating it instead of denying it! DD |
| Akingu88 User ID: 434635 United States05/17/2008 01:37 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: The Nabka, the holocaust on the Palestinians in 1948, Israel says they'll get their state only if they forget this word ... Consider the source: another lying JEW! The Arabs can't HAVE a holohoax! They're not JEWISH enough! The HOLOCAUST is ONLY for the JEWS! DD By Steven Plaut Steven Plaut is a professor at the Graduate School of the Business Administration at the University of Haifa and is a columnist for the Jewish Press. A collection of his commentaries on the current events in Israel can be found on his "blog" at www.stevenplaut.blogspot.com. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 426149 |
| Akingu88 User ID: 434635 United States05/17/2008 01:43 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: The Nabka, the holocaust on the Palestinians in 1948, Israel says they'll get their state only if they forget this word ... The President of Iran, for one. Anyone who has even LOOKED at the evidence of the holohoax lie, will begin to doubt the jews as well. I'm a Revisionist and I KNOW for a FACT that the holocaust never happened the way the jews described it! DD Since muslim leaders publicly say there was no Holocaust, ... Quoting: FF 51202Who? Names please! |
