| | | Page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 | I've been through the desert on a thread with no name
| Menow
User ID: 453087
6/17/2008 1:11 AM | | Re: I've been through the desert on a thread with no name | Quote |
[Quoting: Turtles Know 406673:]
I'm going to ask again, how many years have folks been saying there is something out of whack with the sun or the earth's arc, this isn't a hard question, since all y'all keep saying it's been happening for years. How many years?
_________________________________________________
~~~~~~~~~~>1986 to today is 22 years <~~~~~~~~~~~
-------------------------------------------------
For as long as I've been coming here, which started in 2003.
So the date folks started questioning the sun placement or the arc of the earth was 2003, interesting. Anyone else have any memories of when folks started questioning?
[Quoting: Menow 453087:]
They started questioning it after Nancy Lieder starting pumping that story onto the internet. That is where all this bullshit originated.
Page 18 and page 28 both answered that question by referencing 1986 as a date people were noticing the sun seeming sometimes out of place.
quoted below:
From page 18 and page 28 of THIS thread:
location
Arizona desert
1986, west of Phoenix
West of White Tank mountains.
Neighbor & I sat on his porch watching sunrise.
[drinking coffee]
He pointed out the peak the sun was rising just left of and noted
"I've seen sunrises from this spot of dozens of years.
It's never been left/north of that peak before." Quoting: himself 453229
So, this guy is reciting a memory from 1986?????? Now THAT'S got to ber reliable! HAR!
---------------------------------------------------
ALL these honest observations origionated with people seeing something they had never seen before.
---------------------------------------------------
I've been on the internet since October 1984
That's 24 years. Quoting: himself 453229
The internet did not exist in 1984.
People do NOT post "sun is out of place" every year.
They post that ONLY WHEN THE SUN SEEMS OUT OF PLACE! Quoting: himself 453229
Which is twice a year, around the solstice.
Who else here has no respect for people who demand we all use telescops and simultaneously also cite Mayans who had no telescopes? Quoting: himself 453229
That is just stupid. Either of those methods has validity- Ancient sun-sighting sites AND telescopes. They don't cancel each other out. What is wrong with you people? |
| himself
User ID: 453229
6/17/2008 1:13 AM | | Re: I've been through the desert on a thread with no name | Quote |
Here is how:
Finds your latitude:
[link to www.lat-long.com]
have a stick exactly vertical in the ground
At noon on June 21st
mark where the shadow of that stick touches the ground.
Use a protractor to find the degree of the shadow cast.
example:
Atlanta Memorial Park is a park in Fulton County, Georgia.
Latitude: 33.81278
>"Britannica:
At the summer solstice (in the Northern Hemisphere), around June 21,
the Sun attains its greatest declination north and is directly over
the Tropic of Cancer: latitude approximately 23°27 N
33.81 minus 23.27 = 10.54
The shadow cast on June 21 in Atlanta Memorial Park
should touch the ground 10 and one half degrees north of a vertical stick, stuck in tthe ground of the park.
If anything different, the sun IS out of place.
Note: any measurement taken anywhere day or night only applies to that location at that time.
Sun in place (eart's tilt as expected) at noon on June 21 does NOT mean a damn thing about the earth's tilt a few hours before or after that time.
It only means your observation at that exact moment matches textbooks. |
| Geogal
User ID: 373387
6/17/2008 1:13 AM | | Re: I've been through the desert on a thread with no name | Quote |
Just for fun I went on a wild google search key phase
"sun out of place"
I discounted sites like GLP, and RMN, ATS, and Zeta... oh and song lyrics, Sci Fi books and 1 myspace...
here's about the only really interesting one I found... It wasn't dated, so,
now idea when it was written.
"Plot the Sun Contest:
As you may know, if you have read this site for any length of time, we have mentioned on several occasions that it sure looks like some odd stuff is going on with the sun. Now, my colleague Cliff, over at www.halfpasthuman.com and I are arguing about just how far out of position the sun really is. Cliff's reckoning seems to suggest it is out of position by a bit more than 1 degree, while my own measurements, while admittedly somewhat imprecise, seem to show the sun out of position by about 0.48%. I have set up this page so that you may inspect my methodology and ask that you conduct your own experiments, especially with the equinox on June 21st rapidly approaching, because it appears that the equinox may be "off" this year."
They go through the entire process of setting up your own experiment, calcs and give their findings. I found it interesting that they come up being as far off as they say, and boats are still able to navigate properly, according to nautical people here.
[link to urbansurvival.com]
Woman of white garment, foreign woman, earth-eating woman, taking and giving life, she is Pele
"ONCE IN HIS LIFE, EVERY MAN IS ENTITLED TO FALL MADLY IN LOVE WITH A GORGEOUS REDHEAD" - LUCILLE BALL |
| Menow
User ID: 453087
6/17/2008 1:20 AM | | Re: I've been through the desert on a thread with no name | Quote |
Here is how:
Note: any measurement taken anywhere day or night only applies to that location at that time.
Sun in place (eart's tilt as expected) at noon on June 21 does NOT mean a damn thing about the earth's tilt a few hours before or after that time.
It only means your observation at that exact moment matches textbooks. Quoting: himself 453229
You can line up two sticks that point to polaris during the night. You will see that Polaris stays in the same spot within a degree or so. You can check that all night every night if you want. Make sure the sticks can't move. That is the only hard part about it. |
| Menow
User ID: 453087
6/17/2008 1:22 AM | | Re: I've been through the desert on a thread with no name | Quote |
Just for fun I went on a wild google search key phase
"sun out of place"
I discounted sites like GLP, and RMN, ATS, and Zeta... oh and song lyrics, Sci Fi books and 1 myspace...
here's about the only really interesting one I found... It wasn't dated, so,
now idea when it was written.
"Plot the Sun Contest:
As you may know, if you have read this site for any length of time, we have mentioned on several occasions that it sure looks like some odd stuff is going on with the sun. Now, my colleague Cliff, over at www.halfpasthuman.com and I are arguing about just how far out of position the sun really is. Cliff's reckoning seems to suggest it is out of position by a bit more than 1 degree, while my own measurements, while admittedly somewhat imprecise, seem to show the sun out of position by about 0.48%. I have set up this page so that you may inspect my methodology and ask that you conduct your own experiments, especially with the equinox on June 21st rapidly approaching, because it appears that the equinox may be "off" this year."
They go through the entire process of setting up your own experiment, calcs and give their findings. I found it interesting that they come up being as far off as they say, and boats are still able to navigate properly, according to nautical people here.
[ link to urbansurvival.com]
Without even looking, I know that has to be Cliff Mickelson. He is a loon from way back and took his lead on "Sun out of place" from, guess who.... Nancy Lieder. |
| Geogal
User ID: 373387
6/17/2008 1:28 AM | | Re: I've been through the desert on a thread with no name | Quote |
Without even looking, I know that has to be Cliff Mickelson. He is a loon from way back and took his lead on "Sun out of place" from, guess who.... Nancy Lieder. Quoting: Menow 453087
LOL!
The writer mentions a "colleague Cliff" so likely you're right!
LOL!
Woman of white garment, foreign woman, earth-eating woman, taking and giving life, she is Pele
"ONCE IN HIS LIFE, EVERY MAN IS ENTITLED TO FALL MADLY IN LOVE WITH A GORGEOUS REDHEAD" - LUCILLE BALL |
| Menow
User ID: 453087
6/17/2008 1:36 AM | | Re: I've been through the desert on a thread with no name | Quote |
Without even looking, I know that has to be Cliff Mickelson. He is a loon from way back and took his lead on "Sun out of place" from, guess who.... Nancy Lieder.
LOL!
The writer mentions a "colleague Cliff" so likely you're right!
LOL! Quoting: Geogal
Yep. Cliff was one of Nancy's pet "observers" for a while back then. You can find him mentioned here and there on her site.
It is truly hilarious that NONE of these "sun-out-of-placers" will weigh in on whether the Sun will be seen exactly where it should be on the solstice. They are already starting to spin and dodge their way out of it by saying it is only out of place at OTHER times. That is about the lamest thing I have ever heard, They declare the observation invalid even BEFORE it has proved them wrong! |
| himself
User ID: 453229
6/17/2008 1:38 AM | | Re: I've been through the desert on a thread with no name | Quote |
Menow,
Many people post ingnorant statements.
Some people are too stupid to check facts before posting.
You are both!
-----------You should be awarded the cake.-----------------
I'll just reply your stupidist statements:
So, this guy is reciting a memory from 1986?????? Now THAT'S got to ber reliable! HAR! Quoting: Menow 453087
me:
---------------------------------------------------
ALL these honest observations origionated with people seeing something they had never seen before.
---------------------------------------------------
I've been on the internet since October 1984
That's 24 years.
The internet did not exist in 1984. Quoting: Menow 453087
Menow,
You call me a liar, question my memory and yet have the stupidity to post that
~~~~~>"The internet did not exist in 1984"<~~~~~~~
- a simple google search turns up my old ISP/ COMPUSERVE in the first few links:
[link to en.wikipedia.org]
CompuServe, (CompuServe Information Service, also known by its acronym CIS), was the first major commercial online service in the United States. It dominated the field during the 1980s... Quoting:
I signed up with Compuserve in October of 1984 in California.
The internet did not exist in 1984. Quoting: Menow 453087
CompuServe CB was the first public, commercial multi-user chat program. It first went live on February 21, 1980, built to over a million subscribers by 1988, and was CompuServe's most popular service through their acquisition by AOL in 1997. Quoting:
[link to www.livinginternet.com]
Only one of us posts factual information and it is NOT menow! |
| Geogal
User ID: 373387
6/17/2008 1:46 AM | | Re: I've been through the desert on a thread with no name | Quote |
Actually, that site claimed it would be off... it's what the on-line bet is about that I posted. Whom ever gets closest to how far it's off will win like a subscription to their site. LOL!
Yep. Cliff was one of Nancy's pet "observers" for a while back then. You can find him mentioned here and there on her site.
It is truly hilarious that NONE of these "sun-out-of-placers" will weigh in on whether the Sun will be seen exactly where it should be on the solstice. They are already starting to spin and dodge their way out of it by saying it is only out of place at OTHER times. That is about the lamest thing I have ever heard, They declare the observation invalid even BEFORE it has proved them wrong! Quoting: Menow 453087
Woman of white garment, foreign woman, earth-eating woman, taking and giving life, she is Pele
"ONCE IN HIS LIFE, EVERY MAN IS ENTITLED TO FALL MADLY IN LOVE WITH A GORGEOUS REDHEAD" - LUCILLE BALL |
| himself
User ID: 453229
6/17/2008 1:54 AM | | Re: I've been through the desert on a thread with no name | Quote |
Menow,
I'll be charitable and suggest you need some sleep.
You are perhaps just too tired right now to make sense.
You can line up two sticks that point to polaris during the night. You will see that Polaris stays in the same spot within a degree or so. You can check that all night every night if you want. Make sure the sticks can't move. That is the only hard part about it. Quoting: Menow 453087
You are citing apples and cabbages making that argument.
(apples & oranges a both fruit and related)
Polaris is 430 light years distant
Sol (our sun) is 8.5 light minutes distant.
60 min/hr x 24 hrs = 1440 min/day
365 days / year = 525600 min/year
525600 x 430 = 226,008,000
Polaris is 26589176.40588 times more distant than the sun.
People.
That's like saying you could step a dozen steps and notice a shift in alignment between a light pole a few yards away just as easily, with those same dozen steps notice a shift in alignmnet with a distant mountain peak. |
| Menow
User ID: 453087
6/17/2008 1:56 AM | | Re: I've been through the desert on a thread with no name | Quote |
Menow,
Many people post ingnorant statements.
Some people are too stupid to check facts before posting.
You are both!
-----------You should be awarded the cake.-----------------
I'll just reply your stupidist statements:
So, this guy is reciting a memory from 1986?????? Now THAT'S got to ber reliable! HAR!
me:
---------------------------------------------------
ALL these honest observations origionated with people seeing something they had never seen before.
---------------------------------------------------
I've been on the internet since October 1984
That's 24 years.
The internet did not exist in 1984.
Menow,
You call me a liar, question my memory and yet have the stupidity to post that
~~~~~>"The internet did not exist in 1984"<~~~~~~~
- a simple google search turns up my old ISP/ COMPUSERVE in the first few links:
[ link to en.wikipedia.org]
CompuServe, (CompuServe Information Service, also known by its acronym CIS), was the first major commercial online service in the United States. It dominated the field during the 1980s...
I signed up with Compuserve in October of 1984 in California.
The internet did not exist in 1984.
CompuServe CB was the first public, commercial multi-user chat program. It first went live on February 21, 1980, built to over a million subscribers by 1988, and was CompuServe's most popular service through their acquisition by AOL in 1997.
[ link to www.livinginternet.com]
Only one of us posts factual information and it is NOT menow!
[link to www.hitmill.com]
"A line-mode user interface (named at CERN, the world wide web or www) was completed in late 1989. The interface was used on a minor network in March 1991." |
| Menow
User ID: 453087
6/17/2008 2:07 AM | | Re: I've been through the desert on a thread with no name | Quote |
Menow,
I'll be charitable and suggest you need some sleep.
You are perhaps just too tired right now to make sense. Quoting: himself 453229
Lame attempt at an insult. Can you offer any factual information? We will see.
********************************
You can line up two sticks that point to polaris during the night. You will see that Polaris stays in the same spot within a degree or so. You can check that all night every night if you want. Make sure the sticks can't move. That is the only hard part about it.
Quoting: Menow 453087
************************************
You are citing apples and cabbages making that argument.
(apples & oranges a both fruit and related) Quoting: himself 453229
What does fruit have to do with it?
Polaris is 430 light years distant
Sol (our sun) is 8.5 light minutes distant.
60 min/hr x 24 hrs = 1440 min/day
365 days / year = 525600 min/year
525600 x 430 = 226,008,000
Polaris is 26589176.40588 times more distant than the sun. Quoting: himself 453229
And?
People.
That's like saying you could step a dozen steps and notice a shift in alignment between a light pole a few yards away just as easily, with those same dozen steps notice a shift in alignmnet with a distant mountain peak. Quoting: himself 453229
Your comparison is useless. The method I gave is for pinpointing the proper location of Polaris in the sky. The only things "aligned" are the two sticks, your eye, and Polaris. The distances involved are irrelevant.
The number of degrees that Polaris is out of position, minus its normal deviation from exact north, would equal the amount of abnormal tilt in Earth's axis. This would, of course, be none at all. |
| Menow
User ID: 453087
6/17/2008 2:14 AM | | Re: I've been through the desert on a thread with no name | Quote |
Menow,
Many people post ingnorant statements.
Some people are too stupid to check facts before posting.
You are both!
-----------You should be awarded the cake.-----------------
I'll just reply your stupidist statements:
~~~~~>"The internet did not exist in 1984"<~~~~~~~
- a simple google search turns up my old ISP/ COMPUSERVE in the first few links:
[ link to en.wikipedia.org]
Only one of us posts factual information and it is NOT menow!
From your own link:
"CompuServe was the first online service to offer Internet connectivity, albeit limited access, as early as 1989 when it connected its proprietary e-mail service to allow incoming and outgoing messages to other Internet e-mail addresses." |
| Menow
User ID: 453087
6/17/2008 2:19 AM | | Re: I've been through the desert on a thread with no name | Quote |
I should say that you should line up the TIPS of both sticks with Polaris. Maybe that is clearer. |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 453229
6/17/2008 2:39 AM | | Re: I've been through the desert on a thread with no name | Quote |
[Quote;]Prior to the widespread inter-networking that led to the Internet, most communication networks were limited by their nature to only allow communications between the stations on the network, and the prevalent computer networking method was based on the central mainframe method. In the 1960s, computer researchers, Levi C. Finch and Robert W. Taylor pioneered calls for a joined-up global network to address interoperability problems. Concurrently, several research programs began to research principles of networking between separate physical networks, and this led to the development of Packet switching. These included Donald Davies (NPL), Paul Baran (RAND Corporation), and Leonard Kleinrock's MIT and UCLA research programs.
This led to the development of several packet switched networking solutions in the late 1960s and 1970s, including ARPANET, and X.25. Additionally, public access and hobbyist networking systems grew in popularity, including UUCP. They were however still disjointed separate networks, served only by limited gateways between networks.
This led to the application of packet switching to develop a protocol for inter-networking, where multiple different networks could be joined together into a super-framework of networks.
By defining a simple common network system, the Internet protocol suite, the concept of the network could be separated from its physical implementation. This spread of inter-network began to form into the idea of a global inter-network that would be called 'The Internet', and this began to quickly spread as existing networks were converted to become compatible with this.
This spread quickly across the advanced telecommunication networks of the western world, and then began to penetrate into the rest of the world as it became the de-facto international standard and global network. However, the disparity of growth led to a Digital divide that is still a concern today.
Following commercialisation and introduction of privately run Internet Service Providers in the 1980s, and its expansion into popular use in the 1990s, the Internet has had a drastic impact on culture and commerce. This includes the rise of near instant communication by e-mail, text based discussion forums, the World Wide Web. Investor speculation in new markets provided by these innovations would also lead to the inflation and collapse of the Dot-com bubble, a major market collapse. But despite this, growth of the Internet continued, and still does.
no amount of nitpicking or parsing words alters the fact I was using a computer to communicate with other computers nationwide, 'on what was then and later came to be unversally called the internet'
Compuserve online service since October 1984
[link to en.wikipedia.org] |
| Menow
User ID: 453087
6/17/2008 2:45 AM | | Re: I've been through the desert on a thread with no name | Quote |
[Quote;]Prior to the widespread inter-networking that led to the Internet, most communication networks were limited by their nature to only allow communications between the stations on the network, and the prevalent computer networking method was based on the central mainframe method. In the 1960s, computer researchers, Levi C. Finch and Robert W. Taylor pioneered calls for a joined-up global network to address interoperability problems. Concurrently, several research programs began to research principles of networking between separate physical networks, and this led to the development of Packet switching. These included Donald Davies (NPL), Paul Baran (RAND Corporation), and Leonard Kleinrock's MIT and UCLA research programs.
This led to the development of several packet switched networking solutions in the late 1960s and 1970s, including ARPANET, and X.25. Additionally, public access and hobbyist networking systems grew in popularity, including UUCP. They were however still disjointed separate networks, served only by limited gateways between networks.
This led to the application of packet switching to develop a protocol for inter-networking, where multiple different networks could be joined together into a super-framework of networks.
By defining a simple common network system, the Internet protocol suite, the concept of the network could be separated from its physical implementation. This spread of inter-network began to form into the idea of a global inter-network that would be called 'The Internet', and this began to quickly spread as existing networks were converted to become compatible with this.
This spread quickly across the advanced telecommunication networks of the western world, and then began to penetrate into the rest of the world as it became the de-facto international standard and global network. However, the disparity of growth led to a Digital divide that is still a concern today.
Following commercialisation and introduction of privately run Internet Service Providers in the 1980s, and its expansion into popular use in the 1990s, the Internet has had a drastic impact on culture and commerce. This includes the rise of near instant communication by e-mail, text based discussion forums, the World Wide Web. Investor speculation in new markets provided by these innovations would also lead to the inflation and collapse of the Dot-com bubble, a major market collapse. But despite this, growth of the Internet continued, and still does.
no amount of nitpicking or parsing words alters the fact I was using a computer to communicate with other computers nationwide, 'on what was then and later came to be unversally called the internet'
Compuserve online service since October 1984
[ link to en.wikipedia.org]
"later came to be unversally called the internet'"
----------->"LATER"<-------------- |
| Menow
User ID: 453087
6/17/2008 2:49 AM | | Re: I've been through the desert on a thread with no name | Quote |
So, 453229... Care to explain why Polaris is exactly where it belongs all night every night for every astronomer who cares to look or any casual observer who wants to line up two points with it? |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 318980
6/17/2008 5:37 AM | | Re: I've been through the desert on a thread with no name | Quote |
So, 453229... Care to explain why Polaris is exactly where it belongs all night every night for every astronomer who cares to look or any casual observer who wants to line up two points with it? Quoting: Menow 453087
I'm sorry Menow but this thread is now starting to fill up with bad science both on the pro and anti side of the 'debate'
The relatively fixed point of Polaris in Northern skies indicates that the axis the earth is rotating around has remained constant and is pointing in the same direction(ish), it DOES NOT indicate that the inclination of this axis to the Ecliptic has remained constant. It IS conceivable that the Earth’s axis of rotation has remained pointing in the same direction – roughly at Polaris, but its orbital path around the Sun has changed, altering the angle between the axis of Rotation and the orbital plane
There is however ZERO evidence that this has happened - if it did happen the rising and setting points and times of the Sun would change and the seasonal change in what constellations were visible would be altered- they haven't as anyone who is capable of some basic astronomy can versify. It is possible to directly measure the inclination of the Earth's axis of rotation to the Ecliptic at Solstice
[link to www.godlikeproductions.com] |
| himself
User ID: 453341
6/17/2008 6:44 AM | | Re: I've been through the desert on a thread with no name | Quote |
1983 Internet Protocol adopted = Internet born
>>>>>>>the original ARPANET adopted IP on 1.1.1983,
when it became a major part of the Internet.<<<<<
TCP/IP (Transmission Control Protocol/Internet Protocol) is the basic communication language or protocol of the Internet.
[link to searchnetworking.techtarget.com]
"later came to be unversally called the internet'"
----------->"LATER"<-------------- Quoting: Menow 453087
>>Universally<<<<
stupid ass
In 1983, TCP/IP protocols replaced NCP as the principal protocol of the ARPANET, and the ARPANET became just one component of the fledgling Internet. Quoting:
[link to en.wikipedia.org]
"fledgling internet"
I was there
Where was 'menow' in the 1970's and 1980's ?
...
During the 1970s, the ARPANET grew to connect research institutes and laboratories supported by the Department of Defense in various parts of the USA. Many of these were university laboratories studying data processing and computer networks, which developed the TCP/IP network and its applications for the Internet.
In 1980 IP became the official standard of the US Department of Defense, and the original ARPANET adopted IP on 1.1.1983, when it became a major part of the Internet. At this time, Defense Department computers were separated from the ARPANET to form their own MILNET network. In 1986 the NSFNET constructs its own backbone network to run in parallel to the ARPANET. And, finally in 1990, with everyone having gone over to using the newer, faster Internet backbone network, the original ARPANET with its network address 10.0.0.0 was shut down. ... Quoting:
www.funet.fi/index/FUNET/ history/internet/en/arpanet.html
In 1980 IP became the official standard of the US Department of Defense
Adoption of "Internet Protocol" by ARPANET
on "1.1.1983
when it became a major part of the Internet".
At this time, Defense Department computers were separated from the ARPANET to form their own MILNET network.
1.1.1983 DOD split off from Internet to form MILNET
1990 ARPANET shut down
----------------------------------------------------
Now that it's conculsively proven "menow' is full of BS
and I'm posting fact based posts...
Read my previous posts about how to find your latitude and determine sun angle at noon on June 21. |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 453343
6/17/2008 6:53 AM | | Re: I've been through the desert on a thread with no name | Quote |
I here and understand what you are saying and showing. Had I not seen what I saw, I would pretty much be convinced from what you have pointed out. Unfortunately, those pics hasn't changed what I noticed. So that is the quagmire I am in.
Knowing what you present and knowing what I had presented (mainly myself conviction) (or my own personal proof) has created a strange reality for me.
I charted the suns movements yesterday, here is the pic of my markings. I found an anomaly occurring between 8:30am-9:30am. The angles are near perfect, more so then the rest. The difference per hour is easily recognizable to the naked eye, but not for 8:30-9:30am. It reminds me of the cranes in New York city falling around the 8o'clock hour, March 15th and May 30th.
As far as the measurements go, they are very accurate. I used a launcher for a model rocket and checked it from several angles with a builders square, it is a true 90 degrees straight up. I just recently tied a weight to a string and dangled it next to the launcher and it still shows a perfect 90*. I used the launchers shadow to trace the lines.
[ link to i112.photobucket.com]
[ link to i112.photobucket.com]
The details are pretty much self-explains. Purple is the direction at different times, going counterclock wise from sunrise is 730(red outline) 830 930 1030 1130am - 2pm 441pm 530 630 730(red outline) 800 and 845 sunset in green. The compass is yellow/orange. The red lines show where an anomaly is beginning. The difference from 730 to 830 is greater then what it should be. Remember when the cranes in New York City fell down, around 8 o'clock.
Also notice the angles for sunrise and sunset are too far north. I am aware they should be a little north from east and west respectively, but not that far. It seems whatever is happening is occurring at night and then corrects itself around 730-930 am EST. Ironically this is 12noon in the mid-atlantic rift. Is there any consideration to magnetism at the mid-atlantic fault line?
And why is 830am-930am so identical in angle unlike the rest?
I assure you of the accuracy of my measurements. I took every consideration into thought making sure the angles were recorded very accurately.
btw, Latitude 40*27'
Tell me what you all think (if you de-bunkers are going to be asses about it, don't bother.)
I still think you may have made a mistake in your measurements.
For example, your East-West line at the top of the
image shows, albeit with multiple lines, a variance
on the West side from your 4 points drawing at the
bottom. Also, I am not an astronomer or even that
much of a casual observer. I am not the best one to
judge the accuracy of your measurements.
again!! |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 88145
6/17/2008 7:02 AM | | Re: I've been through the desert on a thread with no name | Quote |
>"Britannica:
latitudes approximately 23°27 N and 23°27 S of the terrestrial Equator, respectively. These latitudes correspond to the northernmost and southernmost declinations of the Sun’s ecliptic to the celestial equator. At the summer solstice (in the Northern Hemisphere), around June 21, the Sun attains its greatest declination north and is directly over the Tropic of Cancer. At that time the Sun appears in the constellation Gemini, but much earlier in history, it lay in the constellation Cancer, thereby resulting in the designation Tropic of Cancer. Similarly, at the winter solstice (Northern Hemisphere), around December 21, the Sun is directly over the Tropic of Capricorn"<
[ link to www.britannica.com]
Theory is what is in the textbooks and reference books.
Reality is what you observe with your own eyes.
Simply stated.
If you live north of the Tropic of Cancer, and the sun ever shines on the north side of your wall.
The earth is tilted beyond the norm.
Nope, not quite correct. The Tropic of Cancer is where the sun appears overhead at NOON on the solstice. In fact, it rises more northerly than the Tropic but by noon is due overhead at that latitude. For instance, the sun is rising slightly north of east this morning at my latitude of 34 degrees north. But by the time is is as high in the sky as it will get, it will be in the southern part of the sky. Remember, we are near the extreme ends of our orbit around the sun where the 23 degree tilt of our plane makes the sun sppear swing the farthest north and south as the earth rotates. |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 318980
6/17/2008 7:02 AM | | Re: I've been through the desert on a thread with no name | Quote |
Atlanta Memorial Park is a park in Fulton County, Georgia.
Latitude: 33.81278
>"Britannica:
At the summer solstice (in the Northern Hemisphere), around June 21,
the Sun attains its greatest declination north and is directly over
the Tropic of Cancer: latitude approximately 23°27 N
33.81 minus 23.27 = 10.54
The shadow cast on June 21 in Atlanta Memorial Park
should touch the ground 10 and one half degrees north of a vertical stick, stuck in tthe ground of the park. Quoting: himself 453229
Himself, this is nonsense, you have not understood the geometry involved at all. At the latitude you gave, 33.81278, the angle between the top of a stick and the end of the shadow it casts should be about 80 degrees. I.e. the Sun should be about 80 degrees above the horizon at noon.
By definition, at noon for all Latitudes above the Tropic of Cancer, the shadow will point directly North.
Read this to learn how to measure the angle of the ecliptic at solstice:
[link to www.godlikeproductions.com] |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 9251
6/17/2008 7:02 AM | | Re: I've been through the desert on a thread with no name | Quote |
Gee...The sun rose exactly when and where it was supposed to...
I'm shocked... |
| himself
User ID: 453341
6/17/2008 7:29 AM | | Re: I've been through the desert on a thread with no name | Quote |
Atlanta Memorial Park is a park in Fulton County, Georgia.
Latitude: 33.81278
>"Britannica:
At the summer solstice (in the Northern Hemisphere), around June 21,
the Sun attains its greatest declination north and is directly over
the Tropic of Cancer: latitude approximately 23°27 N
33.81 minus 23.27 = 10.54
The shadow cast on June 21 in Atlanta Memorial Park
should touch the ground 10 and one half degrees north of a vertical stick, stuck in the ground of the park.
Himself, this is nonsense, you have not understood the geometry involved at all. At the latitude you gave, 33.81278, the angle between the top of a stick and the end of the shadow it casts should be about 80 degrees. I.e. the Sun should be about 80 degrees above the horizon at noon.
By definition, at noon for all Latitudes above the Tropic of Cancer, the shadow will point directly North.
Read this to learn how to measure the angle of the ecliptic at solstice:
[ link to www.godlikeproductions.com]
You are arguing with the Encyclopedia Britannica!
I merely quoted from their correct factual article.
You nearly understand though. Half of the concept that is:
1/2- The sun will be shining from about 80 degrees above the horizon on the south side of the stick.
other half- Shadow of ten degrees will be on the north side.
unless the sun is out of place of course.
The observation only applies to that place at that time.
Says absolutely nothing about whether earth may wobble earlier or later than that time.
The old guy who noticed a wobble in 1986 and commented on it to me, (from his point of view) also noticed the sun "back in it's place" the next year.
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Wm Shakespeare
My sympathy to menow et al
I do recall back when I also thought I knew everything and actually knew almost nothing.
Not all become wiser, but all who stay alive, do get older. |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 318980
6/17/2008 7:48 AM | | Re: I've been through the desert on a thread with no name | Quote |
You are arguing with the Encyclopedia Britannica!
I merely quoted from their correct factual article.
You nearly understand though. Half of the concept that is:
1/2- The sun will be shining from about 80 degrees above the horizon on the south side of the stick.
other half- Shadow of ten degrees will be on the north side.
unless the sun is out of place of course. Quoting: himself 453341
I'm not arguing with Encyclopaedia just your ridiculous mathematics. The only part of you post that came from Brittania is:
At the summer solstice (in the Northern Hemisphere), around June 21,
the Sun attains its greatest declination north and is directly over
the Tropic of Cancer: latitude approximately 23°27 N
The rest is purely invented mathematics on your part and just plain wrong. Noon is defined as the point the Sun crosses the great circle joining North and South and the point directly overhead. This means shadows ALWAYS points directly NORTH at NOON for ALL locations NORTH of the Tropic of cancer on any day of the year, because the Sun is always directly SOUTH at noon. Try looking up Noon in an encyclopaedia if you don’t believe me. |
| himself
User ID: 453341
6/17/2008 8:03 AM | | Re: I've been through the desert on a thread with no name | Quote |
visit links for full article and to nitpick out whatever you feel supports your point of view
I assert that earth DOES wobble.
The degree of each wobble is not my affair.
ScienceDaily (Jun. 26, 2006) — New technologies are enabling scientists to determine precisely the extent and causes of Earth's short-term wobbling. Like a spinning top, Earth wobbles as it rotates on its axis. In fact, it displays many different wobbling motions, ranging in period from a few minutes to billions of years. Quoting:
[link to www.sciencedaily.com]
Earth's irregular, shorter term wobbles, lasting a week or so, have been more difficult to study, partly because these motions are usually masked by those of more prominent wobbles. Now, scientists in Belgium and France have taken advantage of a quirk in the pattern of large-scale motions and the advent of the Global Positioning System (GPS) to pin down short-term wobbles that occurred from November 2005 through February 2006....weather patterns in the northern hemisphere played a significant role. Both the location of high- or low-pressure centers--for example, over Asia or northern Europe--and the relationship of these weather systems to each other played a measurable role in creating, or "exciting," small, short-term wobbles, they report.
The ocean also affects short-term wobbles, according to Lambert and his colleagues. They were able to correlate oceanic and atmospheric pressure variations with the small observed wobbles during the study period. Although these forces had been credited by previous researchers with maintaining the large Chandler wobble, this was the first time that scientists have been able to demonstrate that day-to-day changes in atmospheric pressure produce a measurable effect on Earth's rotation.
The study was funded by the Belgian Science Policy Office, the Royal Observatory of Belgium, and the Paris Observatory.... Quoting:
A Mystery Of Earth's Wobble Solved: It's The Ocean (Jul. 18, 2000) — For over a century, scientists have sought to understand the cause of one of Earth's wobbling motions as it rotates. Now, thanks to recently developed models, the mystery is solved... Quoting:
[link to www.sciencedaily.com]
Geophysicist Discovers Why Earth 'Wobbles' (May 20, 2004) — The earth wobbles in space. This has been known for over a century by astronomers, and thanks to global positioning system (GPS) technologies, this wobble has been tracked with a precision of a few ... Quoting:
[link to www.sciencedaily.com] |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 318980
6/17/2008 8:24 AM | | Re: I've been through the desert on a thread with no name | Quote |
Himself, I'm going to have a last try at this with you because it is possible that it is simply the way that you are expressing yourself that is the cause of our disagreement. Can you answer the following questions? If the Sun is where it should be:
1. Do you agree at Latitude you gave the Sun will be directly south about 80 degrees above the horizon at noon on Solstice?
2. Do you agree that the shadow cast by a vertical stick at noon at that location will point directly due North?
3. Due you agree that if you draw a line between the top of the stick and the end of its shadow the line will make an angle of about 80 degrees with the horizontal shadow at noon on solstice?
4. Do you agree that if you draw a line between the top of the stick and the end of its shadow the line will make an angle of about 10 degrees with the vertical stick at noon on solstice? |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 318980
6/17/2008 8:29 AM | | Re: I've been through the desert on a thread with no name | Quote |
visit links for full article and to nitpick out whatever you feel supports your point of view
I assert that earth DOES wobble.
The degree of each wobble is not my affair. Quoting: himself 453341
I have never disputed that the Earth wobbles, if you check back in this thread you will see that I have in fact asserted that the Earth wobbles over both long and short periods of time. What I do dispute is that short term wobbles are naked eye visible and can give rise to the Sun appearing '20 degrees out of position' and that the Earths axis of rotation is '26 degrees' further south of the ecliptic than it should be. |
| Menow
User ID: 453087
6/17/2008 9:27 AM | | Re: I've been through the desert on a thread with no name | Quote |
[Quoting: Turtles Know 406673:]
I'm going to ask again, how many years have folks been saying there is something out of whack with the sun or the earth's arc, this isn't a hard question, since all y'all keep saying it's been happening for years. How many years?
_________________________________________________
~~~~~~~~~~>1986 to today is 22 years <~~~~~~~~~~~
-------------------------------------------------
Page 18 and page 28 both answered that question by referencing 1986 as a date people were noticing the sun seeming sometimes out of place. Quoting: himself 453229
Right. The Sun has been out of place in the sky for 22 years and "they" have kept astronomers from noticing it or talking about it for all those 22 years. Right. |
| himself
User ID: 453341
6/17/2008 9:35 AM | | Re: I've been through the desert on a thread with no name | Quote |
Himself, I'm going to have a last try at this with you because it is possible that it is simply the way that you are expressing yourself that is the cause of our disagreement. Can you answer the following questions? If the Sun is where it should be:
1. Do you agree at Latitude you gave the Sun will be directly south about 80 degrees above the horizon at noon on Solstice?
~>I agree that anywhere north of the Tropic of Cancer at solar noon, the sun will be (relatively speaking) directly south<~
2. Do you agree that the shadow cast by a vertical stick at noon at that location will point directly due North?
~>absolutely<!
3. Due you agree that if you draw a line between the top of the stick and the end of its shadow the line will make an angle of about 80 degrees with the horizontal shadow at noon on solstice?
~>NO. The sun at 90 degrees above the horizon would produce no shadow. The sun at 80 degrees will produce a shadow at ten degrees: 90 degrees minus 80 degrees = ten degrees<~
4. Do you agree that if you draw a line between the top of the stick and the end of its shadow the line will make an angle of about 10 degrees with the vertical stick at noon on solstice?
~>Yes! Now you've got it!<~ Quoting: Anonymous Coward 318980
Not aimed at you.
Just comment in general for this topic:
I do not doubt people are posting honest observations;
As they did in 86' and 06'
IMHO Calling them names serves no constructive purpose.
I searched for a reason they might see an anomaly such as sun appearing out of place and found "wobble" to explain temporary displacements from normal axis tilt. |
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