I've been through the desert on a thread with no name

I moved to Alaska 9 years ago. At that time, here in Anchorage, we would have about 2 hours of total darkness and an hour of twilight on each side of those 2 hours around summer solstice - the way it's been for as long as anyone can remember. I have clients whose yards and plants I take care of during the summer months. Up to 4 years ago everything seemed "normal". During the past 4 years I've had to deal with lots of dying plants due to being fried by the sun. In addition to that, the daylight during the summer months has been increasing at night. This summer, like last summer, there is no "night time"...no 2 hours of dark anymore. It stays light here for 24 hours now with just a 'hint' of twilight around 2am. Many people here have commented on the increase of daylight hours...including the native residents who have been observing the skies here for 10,000 years.



Total horseshit. There has NEVER been ANY real twilight in Anchorage at summer solstice in all of recorded history. There is, and ALWAYS has been NO time of total darkness during those nights.

[link to www.wunderground.com]

"Length Of Visible Light: 24h 00m
Length of Day 19h 12m
Tomorrow will be 1m 58s longer."

While I understand those nice scientists were giving what they thought were intelligent answers, i.e. "the bending light effect".


And you feel their answers were not intelligent?

Yes, from their standpoint, they were.

They fail to take into consideration that these people use the sun to navigate, tell time, and plan their year. They truly live with the sun each and every day.


They attempted to explain what they thought was physically taking place. No amount of further anecdotal reports are going to change the approach they took. The alternative explanation that the Sun is ACTUALLY in the wrong place is quite unlikely.

Anectotal evidence, while often discarded by hard scientists, at least leaves the door open for other explainations - life isn't black and white as hard science would like you to believe.

Unlike those who spend most of their lives indoors not paying too much attention to what it is doing. Those of us mathmatically challenged but spend loads of time in the garden, planting for shade and sun, are finding things aren't all that they seem.


That is totally vague, cryptic and meaningless.

Nonsense. Obviously your not a gardener so it would be vague and meaningless.

Even taking into consideration changes in plant size, surrounding plant growth, etc, it has been relatively easy to see that something is odd, something one can't quite put their finger on.


More of the same. What is your point?
If I knew the answer I would have said it. But when one plants a shade loving plant in the shade, it ought to be in the shade year after year.

Especially when one tracks where the shade is at, before one plants the plant. When one spends years observing sun and shade in ones garden one gets to know ones garden's quirks and when things start to change, one has to wonder why a shade plant is not longer in its nice shady spot or a sun plant ends up in the shade.

I have been gardening for over 16 years in the same place. I know my garden and I know the needs of my plants.

Whether the earth has changed its position slightly or the "bending light effect", something is different.

Well, you seem to be denouncing the "nice scientists" opinion about bending light, so that leaves the choice, from your post, of: "earth has changed its position slightly". Well, since Earth is changing position on a constant basis, can you be more specific?


Denouncing is your term. I was merely pointing out the placating voice of the "experts".

"....said the likely cause of this "rising sun" mystery is a temperature difference between the very cold air over the snow and the air above, which has been warmer than usual". Notice the word "likely". It is a guess, it is not a fact.

They know no more about the situation than the ones observing.

Which is why they intend on examining the issue further.

I do not know the answers. I am observing a change. I neither understand what is causing the change or have the scientific background to even propose one.

And since the only thing that matters is earths relation to the sun then that there seems to be a change in their relationship.

I love this time of year...when we can look forward to threads claiming the sun is too far north with absolutely no evidence to back up the claim. And no explanation as to why the summer solstice lined up with locations like Stonehenge just as it does every year.

In six months, we can look forward to the "sun too far south" threads.


So what?

I moved to Alaska 9 years ago. At that time, here in Anchorage, we would have about 2 hours of total darkness and an hour of twilight on each side of those 2 hours around summer solstice - the way it's been for as long as anyone can remember. I have clients whose yards and plants I take care of during the summer months. Up to 4 years ago everything seemed "normal". During the past 4 years I've had to deal with lots of dying plants due to being fried by the sun. In addition to that, the daylight during the summer months has been increasing at night. This summer, like last summer, there is no "night time"...no 2 hours of dark anymore. It stays light here for 24 hours now with just a 'hint' of twilight around 2am. Many people here have commented on the increase of daylight hours...including the native residents who have been observing the skies here for 10,000 years.



Total horseshit. There has NEVER been ANY real twilight in Anchorage at summer solstice in all of recorded history. There is, and ALWAYS has been NO time of total darkness during those nights.

[link to www.wunderground.com]

"Length Of Visible Light: 24h 00m
Length of Day 19h 12m
Tomorrow will be 1m 58s longer."


I offered this forum an honest observation and you, sir, or whatever you are, just called me a liar.

You also called hundreds of native elders liars.

You also called my 81 year old aunt a liar (who remarked to me last year, "These past few summers have been odd - it never gets dark anymore in June when it always has for the past 50 years I've been here.")

And you've called every person who lives here and has noticed these anomalies a liar.

Your quoting a website's info about the current "Length of visible light: 24 hours", actually validates my point - yes, the light is visible 24 hours a day now, where it has NOT been in the past.

Research past astronomical archives on the subject.

Having read your posts in this thread, all I can say is that your blatant arrogance is only exceeded by your willful ignorance.

I'm sorry but, my experience, as well as all those who live here, trumps your sophomoric need to pander to some sort of authority figure.

I don't know if this is all true or not, Surely, it can be easily tested. We all know 911 was done by our government and there is a cover-up going on there is there not? Same with chemtrails. Cover-ups are the norm. There are a lot of dead scientists lately. You are not paying attn.


You don't have to pay much attention to the fact that you
are throwing strawman arguments out fast and furious in the
hope that you won't have to address things like that Solstice
image I provided.

Sux2BU.

I don't know if this is all true or not, Surely, it can be easily tested.

Yes it can, so why are you so unwilling to test it?

While I understand those nice scientists were giving what they thought were intelligent answers, i.e. "the bending light effect".


And you feel their answers were not intelligent?

Yes, from their standpoint, they were.


I was asking about your standpoint, obviously. You have no explanation why you imply that the answers were NOT intelligent?


They fail to take into consideration that these people use the sun to navigate, tell time, and plan their year. They truly live with the sun each and every day.


They attempted to explain what they thought was physically taking place. No amount of further anecdotal reports are going to change the approach they took. The alternative explanation that the Sun is ACTUALLY in the wrong place is quite unlikely.

Anectotal evidence, while often discarded by hard scientists, at least leaves the door open for other explainations - life isn't black and white as hard science would like you to believe.


"Discarded"? No, they were apparently the trigger for the very investigation we are discussing. How does that equate to having been "discarded"?


Unlike those who spend most of their lives indoors not paying too much attention to what it is doing. Those of us mathmatically challenged but spend loads of time in the garden, planting for shade and sun, are finding things aren't all that they seem.


That is totally vague, cryptic and meaningless.

Nonsense. Obviously your not a gardener so it would be vague and meaningless.


"...things aren't all that they seem." is gardening terminology? That's all you said in that statement you feel is so meaningful. Could you elaborate for us non-gardeners?



Even taking into consideration changes in plant size, surrounding plant growth, etc, it has been relatively easy to see that something is odd, something one can't quite put their finger on.


More of the same. What is your point?
If I knew the answer I would have said it. But when one plants a shade loving plant in the shade, it ought to be in the shade year after year.


No, it ought to be in the shade unless the Sun changes position in the sky. It does that on both daily and seasonal basis. In addition, the shading object can change or move.


Especially when one tracks where the shade is at, before one plants the plant. When one spends years observing sun and shade in ones garden one gets to know ones garden's quirks and when things start to change, one has to wonder why a shade plant is not longer in its nice shady spot or a sun plant ends up in the shade.


Well, trees in the area can change shape, loose branches, etc, and Humans are prone to error in memory. Those things are common. Earth shifting on it's axis? EXTTTTEEEEEEMEEEELLLYYYYY uncommon.


I have been gardening for over 16 years in the same place. I know my garden and I know the needs of my plants.


But you are not an astronomer. Whom do you think is more likely to know if the Sun is in the wrong place in the sky?


Whether the earth has changed its position slightly or the "bending light effect", something is different.

Well, you seem to be denouncing the "nice scientists" opinion about bending light, so that leaves the choice, from your post, of: "earth has changed its position slightly". Well, since Earth is changing position on a constant basis, can you be more specific?


Denouncing is your term. I was merely pointing out the placating voice of the "experts".


No, you were characterizing it as such, in a patronizing way, and continue to do so.


"....said the likely cause of this "rising sun" mystery is a temperature difference between the very cold air over the snow and the air above, which has been warmer than usual". Notice the word "likely". It is a guess, it is not a fact.


Tut tut. Let's call it an "educated guess", shall we?


They know no more about the situation than the ones observing.


Horseshit. Why do you people think that education in a certain science renders one no more capable than someone without training? Wishful thinking? You think the cargo cult people of the South Pacific were as capable of accurate understanding of the nature of wartime technology as the U.S. Navy?


Which is why they intend on examining the issue further.


No, that is NOT "why" they are investigating further. It is because they are honest researchers and they are questioning their OWN preliminary conclusions. That is what good scientists do.


I do not know the answers. I am observing a change. I neither understand what is causing the change or have the scientific background to even propose one.


Then why are you proposing that the Sun is not where it belongs?


And since the only thing that matters is earths relation to the sun then that there seems to be a change in their relationship.


See what I mean? You are making a "scientific" conclusion as to what the answer must be, based on very sparse understanding of the ramifications of your proposal. You seem to refuse to even accept the remote possibility that you could be mistaken about the altered position of the Sun. That is BAD science!

If the Sun is not where it is supposed to be then why is it
right where it's supposed to be during the Solstice?

Those who fight so hard against Op's postulation must be protecting something.

Otherwise, why wouldn't they just let OP alone?

If OP is crazy, then why don't you just let her howl at the wind.

Debunkers always reinforce my opinion that there's truth about.


But you won't simply ask an astronomer and find out the truth. No body is "fighting so hard". We are simply offering the observation that the OP is making an absurd claim with ZERO supporting evidence.


Personally, I don't give a shit either way.

Neither should you when somebody makes a post. What do you think this is - a science forum? It's freakin GLP. If somebody wants to claim something - so be it.

Believe, don't believe, move along, whatever.

BTW, who is the "WE" that you speak about?

All I know is that where I live, in the southern US, we've set a new record each day of June for temperature. Go back and check any record books to find out how common that is - NOT. 10 days straight of new heat records. Nearly 100 each day of June. That is the FACT. That is verifiable. So, something is up with the Sun and personally, I'm open to all explanations.

Hey genius, that's not the sun, it's the high pressure system stalled off the east coast. Weather happens. Blame those who can prove ther's no climate change.

I love this time of year...when we can look forward to threads claiming the sun is too far north with absolutely no evidence to back up the claim. And no explanation as to why the summer solstice lined up with locations like Stonehenge just as it does every year.

In six months, we can look forward to the "sun too far south" threads.


So what?

So what? So WHAT????

Damn we get a bit tired of the same stupid crap every single summer and winter, that's "so what".

Really tired. Seriously. It's stupid. And if someone like me comes on and tries to explain 'why' the sun seems north or south - we are immediately told we are nothing but "shills" and "debunkers"...which now really is beginning to piss me off. It's stupid. I am not a shill or a debunker - I am (and have many times in the past) simply offering reasonable, documented, easy to prove facts to explain to people with less knowledge in the subject - and for my time I am told I am a shill and should shut up.

It's a freaking DISCUSSION FORUM ya idiots! I thought this was a place to LEARN and DISCUSS - yet some people don't want to learn anything or discuss anything and if someone tries to explain reality to them they freak the heck out and act like total dumb asses, that's "what"!

So, to all you 'sun is too south' or 'sun is too north' freaks - open your freaking mind to reality once in a while and quite living in your fear mode.

There are lots of other things we can discuss that truly may be conspiratorial nature. Where the sun 'sets' is not one of them.

I understand what you are doing. I actually quite appreciate it. However, I have neither the time nor energy for a philosophical discussion of the roots of an opinion. They are a dime a dozen, mine as well as yours. Some other time, perhaps?

Those who fight so hard against Op's postulation must be protecting something.

Otherwise, why wouldn't they just let OP alone?

If OP is crazy, then why don't you just let her howl at the wind.

Debunkers always reinforce my opinion that there's truth about.


But you won't simply ask an astronomer and find out the truth. No body is "fighting so hard". We are simply offering the observation that the OP is making an absurd claim with ZERO supporting evidence.


Personally, I don't give a shit either way.

Neither should you when somebody makes a post. What do you think this is - a science forum? It's freakin GLP. If somebody wants to claim something - so be it.

Believe, don't believe, move along, whatever.

BTW, who is the "WE" that you speak about?

All I know is that where I live, in the southern US, we've set a new record each day of June for temperature. Go back and check any record books to find out how common that is - NOT. 10 days straight of new heat records. Nearly 100 each day of June. That is the FACT. That is verifiable. So, something is up with the Sun and personally, I'm open to all explanations.

Hey genius, that's not the sun, it's the high pressure system stalled off the east coast. Weather happens. Blame those who can prove ther's no climate change.

I don't know if this is all true or not, Surely, it can be easily tested.

Yes it can, so why are you so unwilling to test it?

show me the test, dick. im not afraid of anything. i've been asking for the proof stupid.

I don't know if this is all true or not, Surely, it can be easily tested.

Yes it can, so why are you so unwilling to test it?

show me the test, dick. im not afraid of anything. i've been asking for the proof stupid.



Well you seem to be afraid of polite conversation and actually reading the content of posts. I have already said that if you give me latitude and a longitude I will tell you exactly where the Sun will set on any date according to science - you can then go to that location and test to see if my predictions are true.

If this would not be proof enough for you what would? What kind of proof are you looking for?

I don't know if this is all true or not, Surely, it can be easily tested.

Yes it can, so why are you so unwilling to test it?

show me the test, dick. im not afraid of anything. i've been asking for the proof stupid.

Well you seem to be afraid of polite conversation and actually reading the content of posts. I have already said that if you give me latitude and a longitude I will tell you exactly where the Sun will set on any date according to science - you can then go to that location and test to see if my predictions are true.

If this would not be proof enough for you what would? What kind of proof are you looking for?

I understand what you are doing. I actually quite appreciate it. However, I have neither the time nor energy for a philosophical discussion of the roots of an opinion. They are a dime a dozen, mine as well as yours. Some other time, perhaps?


It's not about "opinion", as much as you people would like for it to be. Unless you are proposing that we are living in varying realities, the Sun CANNOT be in a different place in the sky than it used to be on this same date.

I don't know if this is all true or not, Surely, it can be easily tested.

Yes it can, so why are you so unwilling to test it?

show me the test, dick. im not afraid of anything. i've been asking for the proof stupid.

Well you seem to be afraid of polite conversation and actually reading the content of posts. I have already said that if you give me latitude and a longitude I will tell you exactly where the Sun will set on any date according to science - you can then go to that location and test to see if my predictions are true.

If this would not be proof enough for you what would? What kind of proof are you looking for?


On todays Date and compare the Data to 20 yrs ago

If you can find a chart that goes back

City ° ' ° ' Time
Albany, N.Y. 42 40 73 45 12:00 noon

I don't know if this is all true or not, Surely, it can be easily tested.

Yes it can, so why are you so unwilling to test it?

show me the test, dick. im not afraid of anything. i've been asking for the proof stupid.



Well you seem to be afraid of polite conversation and actually reading the content of posts. I have already said that if you give me latitude and a longitude I will tell you exactly where the Sun will set on any date according to science - you can then go to that location and test to see if my predictions are true.

If this would not be proof enough for you what would? What kind of proof are you looking for?

i told you already your computer program does not impress me. "according to science" means nothing. You claim to be the expert, so show me any other proof you got. How about some photos proving it? A program is not evidence.

I understand what you are doing. I actually quite appreciate it. However, I have neither the time nor energy for a philosophical discussion of the roots of an opinion. They are a dime a dozen, mine as well as yours. Some other time, perhaps?


It's not about "opinion", as much as you people would like for it to be. Unless you are proposing that we are living in varying realities, the Sun CANNOT be in a different place in the sky than it used to be on this same date.

the sun orbits the milky way, genious.

It is never in the same place.

neither is the earth.

and celestial bodies wobble.

you dont know what you are talking about.

oh yeah, the moon is where it should be, the same as the rest of the stars and planets.

strawman? you do not know what is. U use it incorrectly here. if you are saying the sun sets in the exact same place on the solstice at stonehedge then show me some analysis proving it. Put up or shut up. Lets see the photos.

well, dr. rudeman, since u are the expert. prove it to me. i'll watch and listen. where is the proof other than a computer program or your lay opinion.

I have been here at GLP for five years and most of you "debunkers" have been rude and arrogant to those who felt safe here reporting what seemed to be anomolies.

I don't know if this is all true or not, Surely, it can be easily tested.

Yes it can, so why are you so unwilling to test it?

show me the test, dick. im not afraid of anything. i've been asking for the proof stupid.

Well you seem to be afraid of polite conversation and actually reading the content of posts. I have already said that if you give me latitude and a longitude I will tell you exactly where the Sun will set on any date according to science - you can then go to that location and test to see if my predictions are true.

If this would not be proof enough for you what would? What kind of proof are you looking for?


On todays Date and compare the Data to 20 yrs ago

If you can find a chart that goes back

City ° ' ° ' Time
Albany, N.Y. 42 40 73 45 12:00 noon


1)How do you imagine that at some point all charts became obsolete, with nobody noticing it, and then they were all replaced with different ones with nobody objecting and no record of it ever having happened?

2)The Earth is supposed to be abnormally "wobbling", right? That means that the motion is unpredictable. How in the world do you think that ANY database could predict those erratic motions?

Over whelming response to everyone who sees the Sun too far North


As the days pass the people respond more


Just three yrs ago was never so many witnesses noticing anything wrong in the skies

Over whelming response to everyone who sees the Sun too far North


As the days pass the people respond more


Just three yrs ago was never so many witnesses noticing anything wrong in the skies


Funny, but not one of them knows where the Sun SHOULD be and can compare the two.

Just three yrs ago was never so many witnesses noticing anything wrong in the skies

[link to www.flickr.com]
It happens every year at the same location at the same time
of year.

I left a challenge, the Sunrise times for Albany NY and today’s Sunrise for Albany

If they match Sunrises then it's settled