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L.A. Times: Envisioning a world of $200-a-barrel oil

 
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L.A. Times: Envisioning a world of $200-a-barrel oil
[link to www.latimes.com]

Envisioning a world of $200-a-barrel oil

By Martin Zimmerman
June 28, 2008

As forecasters take that possibility more seriously, they describe fundamental shifts in the way we work, where we live and how we spend our free time.


The more expensive oil gets, the more Katherine Carver's life shrinks. She's given up RV trips. She stays home most weekends. She's scrapped her twice-a-month volunteer stint at a Malibu wildlife refuge -- the trek from her home in Palmdale just got too expensive.

How much higher would fuel prices have to go before she quit her job? Already, the 170-mile round-trip commute to her job with Los Angeles County Child Support Services in Commerce is costing her close to $1,000 a month -- a fifth of her salary. It's got the 55-year-old thinking about retirement.

"It's definitely pushing me to that point," Carver said.

The point could be closer than anyone thinks.

Three months ago, when oil was around $108 a barrel, a few Wall Street analysts began predicting that it could rise to $200. Many observers scoffed at the forecasts as sensational, or motivated by a desire among energy companies and investors to drive prices higher.

But with oil closing above $140 a barrel Friday, more experts are taking those predictions seriously -- and shuddering at the inflation-fueled chaos that $200-a-barrel crude could bring. They foresee fundamental shifts in the way we work, where we live and how we spend our free time.

"You'd have massive changes going on throughout the economy," said Robert Wescott, president of Keybridge Research, a Washington economic analysis firm. "Some activities are just plain going to be shut down."

Besides the obvious effect $7-a-gallon gasoline would have on commuters, automakers, airlines, truckers and shipping firms, $200 oil would drive up the price of a broad spectrum of products: Insecticides and hand lotions, cosmetics and food preservatives, shaving cream and rubber cement, plastic bottles and crayons -- all have ingredients derived from oil.

The pain would probably be particularly intense in Southern California, which is known for its long commutes and high cost of living.

"Throughout our history, we have grown on the assumption that energy costs would be low," said Michael Woo, a former Los Angeles city councilman and a current member of the city Planning Commission. "Now that those assumptions are shifting, it changes assumptions about housing, cars and how cities grow."

Push prices up fast enough, he said, and "it would be the urban-planning equivalent of an earthquake."

Consumers

With every penny hike in the price of gas costing American consumers about $1 billion a year, sharply higher pump prices would lead to "significant bankruptcies and store closings," said Scott Hoyt, director of consumer economics at Moody's Economy.com.

Consumer spending has held up surprisingly well in the face of skyrocketing pump prices -- bolstered in part, perhaps, by federal tax rebates. But the same day the government reported a 0.8% rise in May consumer spending, a research firm said consumer confidence had plunged to its lowest level since 1980 -- hinting at the catastrophic effect another big gas price surge could have on retailers and customers.

"The purchasing power of the American people would be kicked in the teeth so darned hard by $200-a-barrel oil that they won't have the ability to buy much of anything," said S. David Freeman, president of the L.A. Board of Harbor Commissioners and author of the 2007 book "Winning Our Energy Independence."

BIGresearch of Worthington, Ohio, said more than half of Californians in a recent survey said they were driving less because of high gas prices. Almost 42% said they had reduced vacation travel and 40% said they were dining out less.

If any retailers would benefit, it would be those on the Internet. In a recent survey by Harris Interactive, one-third of adults said high gas prices had made them more likely to shop online to avoid driving.

Restaurant operators such as Brinker International, which owns the Chili's and Romano's Macaroni Grill chains, are suffering and are likely to struggle even more as consumers look for ways to reduce spending. Fast-food chains wouldn't be immune, experts say, although they might fare better as families downscale their dining choices.

Vehicle sales, too, would probably continue to tank. Sales of new cars, sport utility vehicles and light trucks fell more than 18% in California in the first quarter compared with a year earlier. Although some consumers have been shopping for smaller, more fuel-efficient vehicles, many dealers are demanding premiums for gas-sipping hybrids, wiping out much of the financial advantage of buying one.

Nationwide, $200 oil and $7 gasoline would force Americans to take 10 million vehicles off the roads over the next four years, Jeff Rubin, chief economist at CIBC World Markets, wrote in a recent report.

As for the state's beleaguered housing market, prices are falling faster in areas requiring long commutes -- such as Lancaster and Palmdale -- than in neighborhoods closer to job centers.

Sky-high gas prices "would basically reorient society to where proximity would be more valuable," said Tom Gilligan, finance professor at USC.

Americans may also feel the effects of a rise in energy-related crime. Ads for locking gas caps are becoming more prevalent. Restaurant owners are complaining that thieves are helping themselves to used barrels of cooking oil, which can be home-brewed into biodiesel fuel.

Transportation

Workers stuck with long commutes and gas-guzzling cars would look increasingly to public transit, experts say.

Already Californians' mobility is being curbed. Traffic on the state's freeways fell almost 4% in April compared with a year earlier, and ridership on many subway and bus lines operated by the L.A. County Metropolitan Transportation Authority has risen in recent months.

But a huge influx of riders would strain aspects of the system, MTA says, noting that many buses are overcrowded at rush hour now.

Quickly adding capacity to meet demand from new riders wouldn't be easy, because new buses cost hundreds of thousands of dollars and take up to two years to deliver.

Transit advocate Kymberleigh Richards said new riders on popular routes such as Wilshire Boulevard, Vermont Avenue or Sherman Way in the San Fernando Valley "are going to have a bit of a culture shock. It's a different world to be using public transit when you're used to being in your own vehicle by yourself."

Just how many drivers would become public-transit riders if oil surges to $200 a barrel is hard to predict, but there's a big pool of potential customers. About 87% of Southern Californians commute by car, according to 2005 data from transportation expert Alan Pisarski. That compares with 63% in New York and its environs.

Travelers can also expect much fuller airplanes and much more expensive flights -- when they're available at all. Delta Air Lines Inc., for example, recently said it was cutting about 13% of its flights from Los Angeles International Airport to save fuel.

It also could mean shifting flights from outlying airports such as Ontario to LAX to cut overhead costs, said Jack Kyser, chief economist for the Los Angeles County Economic Development Corp. Carriers probably would also trim flights in highly competitive air corridors such as L.A. to the San Francisco Bay Area.

Even the cost of getting away from it all on Santa Catalina Island would go up. Greg Bombard, president of the Catalina Express ferry service, has trimmed schedules, raised fares and reduced hiring to make up for fuel costs that have risen sevenfold since 2002. Another big increase and he says he'll have to ask state regulators, who control his rates, to OK another fare hike.

Trade

The fee increases on the ferry would be nothing compared with the added cost of transoceanic shipping if oil goes to $200. Some experts say high energy costs are altering global trade and slowing the pace of globalization.

It takes about 7,000 tons of bunker-fuel to fill the tanks of a 5,000-container cargo ship for a trip from Shanghai to Los Angeles. Over the last year and half, the cost of that fuel has jumped 87% to $552 a ton, according to the World Shipping Council, boosting the cost of a fill-up to more than $3.8 million.

"To put things in perspective, today's extra shipping cost from East Asia is the equivalent of imposing a 9% tariff on East Asian goods entering North America," said Rubin of CIBC World Markets. "At $200 per barrel, the tariff equivalent rate will rise to 15%."

If oil continues to rise from current levels, officials at the Port of Los Angeles believe West Coast ports would gain business because they are 10 to 12 days' sailing time from Asia, versus the 18-to-20-day route from Asia to the East Coast through the Panama Canal.

But local ports could lose business if shipping costs get so out of hand that companies begin shifting production back to North America from Asia -- something that's happening in the steel industry, Rubin said.

Local distribution patterns could change too. Stephen Gaddis, chief executive of Pacific Cheese Co., a Hayward, Calif., cheese processing and packaging firm, thinks high fuel prices will push restaurants, retailers and food manufacturers to look for suppliers closer to their operations.

"Local sourcing is ideal. You won't pay as much for freight, and when you use less fuel it's better for the environment," Gaddis said.

Soaring diesel prices will make companies rethink whether they should have large, centralized plants or build smaller ones around the country.

That's what Pacific Cheese is doing. It's building a packaging plant in Texas to be closer to one of its larger suppliers and expects to serve its Southwestern clients from there.

In the near future, however, consumers can expect to pay for the higher cost of producing food and moving it around the country, say food executives, farmers and economists. Even having a deep-dish pizza with extra cheese brought to your door costs more now that chains such as Pizza Hut are charging for delivery.

The workplace

Dramatically higher transportation costs would usher in an era of virtual mobility, or zero mobility, for many workers.

"We're seeing companies go to four-day workweeks, place increased emphasis on working at home, show bigger interest in setting up satellite offices -- anything that gets commute times down and gets people off the road," said analyst Rob Enderle of Enderle Group in San Jose.

Videoconferencing, touted as "the next big thing" for years, would finally have its day, thanks to improved technology and a desperation to cut corporate travel budgets.

Telecommuting, or working from home, is easier than ever because of the spread of high-speed Internet access, said Jonathan Spira, chief analyst at Basex Inc., a business research firm in New York. In particular, workers in "knowledge" jobs that can be performed with computers and phones would benefit.

But Gilligan of USC noted that lower-income workers tend to be in jobs that don't favor telecommuting, such as retail and food service.

"These are the same people who are already being creamed by the mortgage crisis," he said. "The impacts of energy price increases are highly disparate."

Although white-collar workers may be able to telecommute, they could also take a serious financial hit because soaring energy prices tend to wreak havoc on the stock market. The explosion of 401(k) plans and similar retirement accounts in the last few decades -- and the decline of traditional pensions with guaranteed payouts -- have tied workers' financial futures more closely to stocks than they were during the 1970s oil shocks. A prolonged Wall Street downturn could mean a no-frills retirement, or none at all.

Upsides

It wouldn't all be bad, of course. Some industries could boom, providing jobs and tax dollars. California has seen a jump in drilling activity as oil companies try to extract more crude from the state's fields. Regulators expect a record 4,000 wells to be drilled in the state this year.

"Every rig and every crew that's available is working right now," said Hal Bopp, the state's oil and gas supervisor.

And as rising oil prices make alternative-fuel vehicles more cost-effective, California companies such as Tesla Motors Inc., which recently began production of a $100,000 all-electric sports car, could become important leaders in an emerging industry.

Tourist attractions may also see an upswing in local business as families look for less-expensive vacation alternatives close to home. A recent survey by travel insurer Access America found that 26% of Americans would cut back on recreational travel as a first response to higher gas prices.

In Southern California, with its many natural wonders, theme parks and other attractions, the prospect of a "staycation" may be less disappointing than for a resident of, say, Nebraska. And movies, a staple of the local economy, may prosper as Americans seek escapism and a (relatively) cheap night out.

And spending less time stuck in traffic on the 405? Priceless.

"More carpooling, fewer people on the freeways, more telecommuting -- in many ways, what would happen is what people have been trying to make happen for a long time," USC's Gilligan said.
Anonymous Coward
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06/30/2008 01:53 AM
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Re: L.A. Times: Envisioning a world of $200-a-barrel oil
but where's DOOOOM in all this...........
Matrix
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06/30/2008 02:08 AM
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Re: L.A. Times: Envisioning a world of $200-a-barrel oil
And they say its the terrorists who hate us for our freedoms, yet it is the bankers, oil men and government who are taking them away via inflation, speculation and pure greed. While the sheople have been looking in the shadows for their enemy to strike their fundamental ways of life, the pillars of society have been undermining them, using the evil doers as a distraction, while they plot and scheme in plain sight their way into a position where freedom costs too much to enjoy, so that in the end more belt tightening, falling standards of living and restriction must go on to survive.

The Jihadists could never take over the world because they are too divided, too crazy and too small minded, but as we can see bigger forces are in play, who are just as fanatical as the radicals but they are using the forces of capitalism and communism to forge their end goal aims of forming mega monopoly mergers and cornering the commodities markets, and so are working together to weaken our way of life so that 1 world government can come(order out of chaos). The enemy is within the gates and sheople keep looking for the barbarians at the door, its time to see who the real enemy is and band together to make a stand, you are either with us or against us in this global war on poverty.
Anonymous Coward
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06/30/2008 02:12 AM
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Re: L.A. Times: Envisioning a world of $200-a-barrel oil
but where's DOOOOM in all this...........
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 460515



Are you kidding it reeks of impending doooom
newliving

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06/30/2008 03:08 AM
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Re: L.A. Times: Envisioning a world of $200-a-barrel oil
but where's DOOOOM in all this...........
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 460515


Oh, there's DOOOOM alright, and time to face it fair and square. At least the mainstream's waking up to it - at last.

Thread: Transition Towns face doom squarely in the eye
Prof_Rabbit

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06/30/2008 04:10 AM
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Re: L.A. Times: Envisioning a world of $200-a-barrel oil
Yes, but all the talk has been "2 years" or "five years" in the future, I'm on record here saying that crude will be $150 by the end of July and $200 by the first quarter of 2009, that's just around the corner.

Either your government is going to have to foot the bill or steal oil from another country, that being Iran, that is why oil goes to $200.
"Anger is a wind that blows out the lamp of your mind"
Anonymous Coward
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06/30/2008 04:58 AM
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Re: L.A. Times: Envisioning a world of $200-a-barrel oil
i like at the end they mention going to the movies as cheap

rofl. Give me a break
Anonymous Coward
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06/30/2008 06:18 AM
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Re: L.A. Times: Envisioning a world of $200-a-barrel oil
we are being led to the slaughter by a cartel of criminals.

they need to die.

where the hell are the law enforcement agencies worldwide?

action needs to be taken, urgently.
anonomous
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06/30/2008 06:39 AM
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Re: L.A. Times: Envisioning a world of $200-a-barrel oil
americans must at once produce goods and market them in the U..S. asap..no country can survive when it buys more than 40 percent of its needs, from foreign markets..start at once small interprises..clothing styles should begin to change..capitolize on it now by making thoses new styles in the U.S..at very reasonable cost from home..in spare time...be enovative..think of new and unique styles for baby furniture etc..in your garages..design new security devices..all these items could put money in your pockets during hard times..
Anonymous Coward
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06/30/2008 09:26 AM
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Re: L.A. Times: Envisioning a world of $200-a-barrel oil
we are being led to the slaughter by a cartel of criminals.

they need to die.

where the hell are the law enforcement agencies worldwide?

action needs to be taken, urgently.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 460571


The "law enforcement agenices" are all working for the criminals.
Anonymous Coward
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06/30/2008 10:02 AM
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Re: L.A. Times: Envisioning a world of $200-a-barrel oil
but where's DOOOOM in all this...........
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 460515


President Dickweed the Texas Turd is getting ready to bomb Iran.

So not only will gas immediatly go to $10.00 a gallon, it will be when you can get it.
Anonymous Coward
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06/30/2008 10:04 AM
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Re: L.A. Times: Envisioning a world of $200-a-barrel oil
lovely future to look forward to huh?...soon enough this American experiment will be finished!
Anonymous Coward
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06/30/2008 10:35 AM
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Re: L.A. Times: Envisioning a world of $200-a-barrel oil
When you read this article you can see that that pretty much what the "experts" have said has been said for years by the experts on GLP. Yes. posters here have mentioned these problems arising as oil has crept up, which goes to show that GLP is the worlds Think Tank. Now if we could only figure out how to get paid for our visions and extrapolations, we could all work at home.

One thing not mentioned in the story because its California centric is the mass migration of people who live in the northern tier that will migrate south due to the inability to heat their homes in winter. You watch, they'll ban wood burning and outdoor wood furnaces in small towns due to the smoke. Its already happening, as they tried to pass a law in a town near me banning the furnaces. Part of the forever wild idea I guess.
Anonymous Coward
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06/30/2008 11:21 AM
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Re: L.A. Times: Envisioning a world of $200-a-barrel oil
How many people here have any real skills? Can any of you take raw materials and fashion them in to something that you could use to trade for food or something else?
Anonymous Coward
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06/30/2008 11:36 AM
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Re: L.A. Times: Envisioning a world of $200-a-barrel oil
Stocks always seem to rally at the start of the week, just wait until Thursday/Friday... hiding
Anonymous Coward
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06/30/2008 12:32 PM
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Re: L.A. Times: Envisioning a world of $200-a-barrel oil
And they say its the terrorists who hate us for our freedoms, yet it is the bankers, oil men and government who are taking them away via inflation, speculation and pure greed. While the sheople have been looking in the shadows for their enemy to strike their fundamental ways of life, the pillars of society have been undermining them, using the evil doers as a distraction, while they plot and scheme in plain sight their way into a position where freedom costs too much to enjoy, so that in the end more belt tightening, falling standards of living and restriction must go on to survive.

The Jihadists could never take over the world because they are too divided, too crazy and too small minded, but as we can see bigger forces are in play, who are just as fanatical as the radicals but they are using the forces of capitalism and communism to forge their end goal aims of forming mega monopoly mergers and cornering the commodities markets, and so are working together to weaken our way of life so that 1 world government can come(order out of chaos). The enemy is within the gates and sheople keep looking for the barbarians at the door, its time to see who the real enemy is and band together to make a stand, you are either with us or against us in this global war on poverty.
 Quoting: Matrix 457229


Good points.
Is45

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06/30/2008 12:44 PM
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Re: L.A. Times: Envisioning a world of $200-a-barrel oil
Space solar hf
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Beyond, There Be Dragons
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Anonymous Coward
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06/30/2008 01:24 PM
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Re: L.A. Times: Envisioning a world of $200-a-barrel oil
but where's DOOOOM in all this...........


President Dickweed the Texas Turd is getting ready to bomb Iran.

So not only will gas immediatly go to $10.00 a gallon, it will be when you can get it.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20293

5aWe are ruled by thieves of such magnatude that the average person can't wrap their minds around it....They think that these people won't do that to them ,,,,but they will and do..........
Anonymous Coward
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06/30/2008 01:31 PM
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Re: L.A. Times: Envisioning a world of $200-a-barrel oil
SILVER LINING:

Ordinary Americans are becoming inventors! Again! It's about time we woke up! They are inventing new ways to get energy AND they are sharing their knowledge with their neighbors. The quiet revolution going on now in backyard America is incredible.

One day, the oil prices will come down and nobody will care because their energy will be free and from their own two hands.
Anonymous Coward
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06/30/2008 01:32 PM
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Re: L.A. Times: Envisioning a world of $200-a-barrel oil
LA Times is trying to sell a story. It's complete made up BS designed to do nothing but get people to read it. Are you people this blind?
Anonymous Coward
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06/30/2008 02:13 PM
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Re: L.A. Times: Envisioning a world of $200-a-barrel oil
I think its very possible. less than 6 mo. ago we were at 80-90 $/bbl. 50-60 bucks later were at 140. now add that to 140 & were at 200 in 6 mo. (jan. - 2009).
Anonymous Coward
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Re: L.A. Times: Envisioning a world of $200-a-barrel oil
thought are things , keep envisioning!
Anonymous Coward
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Re: L.A. Times: Envisioning a world of $200-a-barrel oil
One thing not mentioned in the story because its California centric is the mass migration of people who live in the northern tier that will migrate south due to the inability to heat their homes in winter.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 295112



You're right. Check this out:


June 25, 2008

Interesting Letters from two correspondents:

1. Beware the Electric Grid this Winter

I just did the math. The Northeast Electric grid is going to collapse next winter.

A gallon of home heating oil is 130,500 btu's and oil burners are 80% efficient. At $4.50 a gallon 1000 btu's of oil heat costs $0.043.

A kilowatt hour of electricity is 3413 btu's and electric heaters are almost 100% efficient. At $0.15 per kilowatt hour (what we pay in NH) 1000 btu's of electric heat costs $0.044.

The public will soon figure out that plugging in electric space heaters and leaving the electric stove on 24/7 will be a cheaper way to heat the house next winter than to run the oil burner. Besides the electric utility companies are prohibited from shutting off your electricity during winter.
Sixty percent of the homes in New England heat with oil. There is no way the electric grid can handle the increased demand.
-- Correspondent in New Hampshire.
Too old, too long
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Re: L.A. Times: Envisioning a world of $200-a-barrel oil
It's so strange - and so perfect. Call me a conspiracy nut, I don't care. I've looked at the UN biodiversity map for the US; you know, it shows all the off-limit zones and people crowded into high-density urban areas. What's funny is that my mother showed me almost the same map back in the 1960's from some, no doubt, "conspiracy" organization: The two maps are nearly the same. So this has been coming on for a long time.

I always wondered how "they" could get United States folks to make or allow such a thing to happen. It's easy - they will do it themselves, already are. Reading the OP's article makes it clear how easy it is to move populations around, if you control the distribution and cost of basic resources.

Have to have a job, even if it doesn't allow for more than scraping by. Anything beats a cardboard box in some alley. Can't afford or get gas? You have to move close to keep that job. Away from pretty suburbs or rural areas to the noisy, crowded city. You've heard a certain city has plenty of affordable food? Oh yeah, you'll move, eventually. Got an epidemic in your town; that, too, will get you on the move, willingly or otherwise. The NAFTA superhighways will control and determine distribution points. If "they" want a portion of the population to migrate to another location, well, life will be made so hard that moving will be necessary just to keep going. Really, and so sad to say, it is no different than moving a herd of cattle. The Constitution and basic human rights? You're kidding, right?

And -- for any of you yokels outside the US are who getting off on what is happening in the US, most likely you will not be laughing for long. This madness is coming your way, too. The PTB don't think you are any more human than they think we are.

In the meantime, we are all waiting for the Fall season of "Survivor" on TV. Guess it beats trying to survive, youself, for real.
Anonymous Coward
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06/30/2008 03:29 PM
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Re: L.A. Times: Envisioning a world of $200-a-barrel oil
In 2007 Bilderberg groups calls for $200 oil. In 2008 LA Times predicts $200 oil.

[link to prisonplanet.com]

[link to www.latimes.com]
Anonymous Coward
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06/30/2008 05:33 PM
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Re: L.A. Times: Envisioning a world of $200-a-barrel oil
In 2007 Bilderberg groups calls for $200 oil. In 2008 LA Times predicts $200 oil.

[link to prisonplanet.com]

[link to www.latimes.com]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 201921



Very good links. The one question I have is: Why would the Elite destroy the middle class? Aren't they making a killing right now and it's much easier to keep people complacent when they think they have control over their lives and are living high in style?

If everything goes to hell in a hand basket they would make record profits for while, but a country in chaos is harder to control. Unless they are planning the political coup. Or plan to swap power bases to either Europe or more likely China.

Thoughts?
Anonymous Coward
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06/30/2008 06:04 PM
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Re: L.A. Times: Envisioning a world of $200-a-barrel oil
Many people think it's the "greedy oil companies" conspiring to wring every last penny out of our pockets.

The fact is that we are really beginning to run out of enough oil to keep up with growth. A geologist back in the 1950s (Hubbel) predicted that the US (lower 48) would peak in oil production in 1970. He missed it by 1 year (1971). He predicted global oil production would peak around the year 2000 and slope downward from there... oil production has plateaued since about 2005 in spite of the huge incentive of much higher prices to produce all out.

We need to look toward alternatives, because it's going to be a massive task to switch from the trillions of dollars in infrastrucure invested in the oil economy.
Anonymous Coward
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Re: L.A. Times: Envisioning a world of $200-a-barrel oil
Many people think it's the "greedy oil companies" conspiring to wring every last penny out of our pockets.

The fact is that we are really beginning to run out of enough oil to keep up with growth. A geologist back in the 1950s (Hubbel) predicted that the US (lower 48) would peak in oil production in 1970. He missed it by 1 year (1971). He predicted global oil production would peak around the year 2000 and slope downward from there... oil production has plateaued since about 2005 in spite of the huge incentive of much higher prices to produce all out.

We need to look toward alternatives, because it's going to be a massive task to switch from the trillions of dollars in infrastrucure invested in the oil economy.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 255704


The geologist's name is Hubbert (not Hubbel).
Anonymous Coward
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06/30/2008 06:11 PM
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Re: L.A. Times: Envisioning a world of $200-a-barrel oil
Very good links. The one question I have is: Why would the Elite destroy the middle class?
Thoughts?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 434204



Assume the "elites" aren't all evil James Bond villains. Some actually have a brain.

The fact is unchecked consumerism spells doom for Earth. No question about it. There are too many people and they can't all have cars, microwaves, and dishwashers. Something has to keep the "cancer" from destroying what's left of our resources, so I can see a scenario where the elites -- who fully understand the predicament we face -- make a concerted effort to raise oil prices to force people to change their lifestyle.

Unlike 99% of the people here on GLP, I don't think elites are all bad and I don't think they're all out to get us. Some of them probably are scum, but some of them (I think) are trying to change things for the better, even if it is seems painful and unfair. I'm not excusing their behavior, but they're doing what they think is right. (And can anyone really argue that we Americans are entitled to Hummers and SUVs when most of the Third World is starving?)

Oil is the great equalizer of nations and it seems clear to me that some uber-group is using it as a tool to manipulate the future direction of civilization.
Anonymous Coward
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Ireland
06/30/2008 08:44 PM
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Re: L.A. Times: Envisioning a world of $200-a-barrel oil
In 2007 Bilderberg groups calls for $200 oil. In 2008 LA Times predicts $200 oil.

[link to prisonplanet.com]

[link to www.latimes.com]



Very good links. The one question I have is: Why would the Elite destroy the middle class? Aren't they making a killing right now and it's much easier to keep people complacent when they think they have control over their lives and are living high in style?

If everything goes to hell in a hand basket they would make record profits for while, but a country in chaos is harder to control. Unless they are planning the political coup. Or plan to swap power bases to either Europe or more likely China.

Thoughts?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 434204


Hungry people will do/give-up almost anything in exchange for food. The elites will be sitting in their "castles" while the underclass continues to get poorer and less educated. It's what governments have striven to regain all throughout history. Look at history. If they wanted it back then, why not now?
Anonymous Coward
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06/30/2008 09:04 PM
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Re: L.A. Times: Envisioning a world of $200-a-barrel oil
Already, the 170-mile round-trip commute to her job with Los Angeles County Child Support Services in Commerce is costing her close to $1,000 a month -- a fifth of her salary. It's got the 55-year-old thinking about retirement.

"It's definitely pushing me to that point," Carver said.

*dum bich shud move closer to work!





GLP