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| | Page 1, 2 | What will happen to the people who die between now and 2012?
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 272521 7/17/2008 5:02 AM Report abusive post | What will happen to the people who die between now and 2012?
| Quote |
Maybe you don't believe that there is any significance to 2012, and I don't want to get that whole debate going again!
But supposing you do, I was just thinking about what might happen to people who pass between now and then. I'm assuming that there are going to, unfortunately, be deaths in huge numbers. But even if that weren't the case, and it was just "business as usual", what do you think the differences may be in experiencing 2012 "on earth" versus "from the other side"?
In particular, there are people who have passed who really seemed to "know" what was going on and seemed to be really good people.
The only two I could think of (isn't that sad?) were.....
Bill Hicks (comedian)
and
Ian Lungold (Mayan Calendric researcher)
(feel free to add to the list of people that seem to fit into that "category")
I would think people like that may have a different "experience" of 2012 than say, my mean-spirited Aunt who passed. I would also think it would be an individual thing. Not like everyone will experience the same thing. But I could be totally wrong too.
Any opinions anyone? |
| Funney User ID: 78211 7/17/2008 6:08 AM
 | | Re: What will happen to the people who die between now and 2012? | Quote | All over + learned added :)
Reincarnation studies are taking place over 60 years now
Stevenson had hundreds of documented cases with testimony from families of "again living characters with different bodies".
check it, you will like it. smile please, tell you later why |
| maya12-21-2012 User ID: 407782 7/17/2008 6:46 AM | | Re: What will happen to the people who die between now and 2012? | Quote | It's a win-win situation! It's like having a choice between prime rib or lobster. :) Once you've eliminated fear and darkness, there's only love and light!
maya 12-21-2012 Are You Prepared?
[link to www.maya12-21-2012.com]
The most informative 2012 site on the net!
MySpace Page: [link to www.myspace.com] |
| canislatrans  Coyo User ID: 429722 7/17/2008 6:53 AM
 | | Re: What will happen to the people who die between now and 2012? | Quote | Terrence McKenna talked a lot about 2012 as well, in my opinion he had a lot of interesting things to talk about. |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 467252 7/17/2008 7:05 AM | | Re: What will happen to the people who die between now and 2012? | Quote | Everything that has ever happened and will happen is happening right now. in the moment of now. Time is only an illusion for the purpose of understanding and distiguishing the events. Time is for experiencing events one at a time.
When you die, time will become non-existant. At that moment you may wish to experience this world once again. SDince time does not exist then you may choose to come once again and start at a point where you left off, or be born during the 1700s and experience that moment or be born in 2212 and experience then. Time is not linear. you can be born any time anywhere and experience that moment since the events do not exist in past or future. the whole universe is happening in the moment of now. We are all living in the moment when the stars where scattered into space. |
| Funney User ID: 78211 7/17/2008 7:27 AM
 | | Re: What will happen to the people who die between now and 2012? | Quote |
Everything that has ever happened and will happen is happening right now. in the moment of now. Time is only an illusion for the purpose of understanding and distiguishing the events. Time is for experiencing events one at a time.
When you die, time will become non-existant. At that moment you may wish to experience this world once again. SDince time does not exist then you may choose to come once again and start at a point where you left off, or be born during the 1700s and experience that moment or be born in 2212 and experience then. Time is not linear. you can be born any time anywhere and experience that moment since the events do not exist in past or future. the whole universe is happening in the moment of now. We are all living in the moment when the stars where scattered into space. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 467252
exactly my mind
adding only this: action makes a reaction, with linear time or without it (cause action/reaction formula should be avaliable even in larger realities where there is no emotional attachment of the observer.. smile please, tell you later why |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 467252 7/17/2008 7:32 AM | | Re: What will happen to the people who die between now and 2012? | Quote |
exactly my mind
adding only this: action makes a reaction, with linear time or without it (cause action/reaction formula should be avaliable even in larger realities where there is no emotional attachment of the observer.. Quoting: Funney
Thank you for adding that part. I totally agree with that too.
Our actions does play a part in choosing what to experience next. Notice here that there are no right and wrongs. Just as you say actions and reactions without emotional attachments. It all for the good of the soul to speak. for its development in to remembering who it is. A never ending game that once reaching the never ending end will start at the begining that never existed.peace |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 435200 7/17/2008 7:42 AM | | Re: What will happen to the people who die between now and 2012? | Quote | When you die - you're dead. People have been trying to get around that for thousands of years. Sorry, truth is, it's over. |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 467252 7/17/2008 7:50 AM | | Re: What will happen to the people who die between now and 2012? | Quote |
When you die - you're dead. People have been trying to get around that for thousands of years. Sorry, truth is, it's over. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 435200
You can argue that no one has ever come back from the other side and hence there is no evidence. You will be correct on that point. However, looking at how the universe works and the movement of everything. Circles within circles. Orbits and spheres all point to a begining and an end that has no begining and end. Look at a circle and chose a point on the circle, then notice that this point can go round and round in that circle and have no begining or end. Then look at the universe and see how everything moves in a circle of some type and how everything is round in never ending circles. Everything is renewed over and over again.
Look at an electron in an Atom. it goes round and round and round in the same path until it gathers enough energy and suddenly jumps to a higher orbit.
Won't go too much in to detail but by looking at nature one can deduce what might happen after one is dead. |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 405334 7/17/2008 7:58 AM | | Re: What will happen to the people who die between now and 2012? | Quote | The exact same that that happened to those who died 2000 years ago.
Ecc 9:3 This [is] an evil among all [things] that are done under the sun, that [there is] one event unto all: yea, also the heart of the sons of men is full of evil, and madness [is] in their heart while they live, and after that [they go] to the dead.
Ecc 9:4 For to him that is joined to all the living there is hope: for a living dog is better than a dead lion.
Ecc 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
Ecc 9:6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any [thing] that is done under the sun.
Ecc 9:7 Go thy way, eat thy bread with joy, and drink thy wine with a merry heart; for God now accepteth thy works.
Notice: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward;(so much for the Christian/Egyptian concept of hell) for the memory of them is forgotten.(and they don't even know they are dead or not They have no memory of any type)
Ecc 9:6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any [thing] that is done under the sun. (so much for sticking around and haunting others).
So in short they will sleep awaiting the resurrection for the white thrown judgment. Those few scriptures should be enough to make any rational minded person RUN from their deceitful churches.
I used the scripture but understand I am not preaching anything to you. Only answering your question with the only real answer there is. Now it's up to you to accept what you're told or reject it. |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 452321 7/17/2008 8:21 AM | | Re: What will happen to the people who die between now and 2012? | Quote |
Notice: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward;(so much for the Christian/Egyptian concept of hell) for the memory of them is forgotten.(and they don't even know they are dead or not They have no memory of any type)
Ecc 9:6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any [thing] that is done under the sun. (so much for sticking around and haunting others).
So in short they will sleep awaiting the resurrection for the white thrown judgment. Those few scriptures should be enough to make any rational minded person RUN from their deceitful churches.
I used the scripture but understand I am not preaching anything to you. Only answering your question with the only real answer there is. Now it's up to you to accept what you're told or reject it. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 405334
I think we tend to believe what we want to believe. It certainly makes as much sense as believing something just because it's written in one place and contradicted in another place in the Bible. |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 110292 7/17/2008 8:28 AM | | Re: What will happen to the people who die between now and 2012? | Quote | short answer - worm food |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 468222 7/17/2008 8:29 AM | | Re: What will happen to the people who die between now and 2012? | Quote |
When you die - you're dead. People have been trying to get around that for thousands of years. Sorry, truth is, it's over. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 435200
Let's look at this from a physical (non-religious) point of view: Where does the energy previously "residing" in the body go then?
As you know, energy can't be destroyed, so it has to go somewhere.
You can't deny that fact. It never ends, I dunno what exactly happens, but it never ends. And that is just what physical laws tell you.
Anyway, I want to add another great mind to the list:
George Carlin (died 22/06/08) |
| Funney User ID: 379793 7/17/2008 8:46 AM | | Re: What will happen to the people who die between now and 2012? | Quote |
When you die - you're dead. People have been trying to get around that for thousands of years. Sorry, truth is, it's over. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 435200
here is you homework:
Cases Documented by Dr. Ian Stevenson
* In one fascinating case, an Indian boy claimed to remember the life of a man named Maha Ram, who was killed with a shotgun fired at close range. This boy had an array of birthmarks in the center of his chest that looked like they could possibly correspond to a shotgun blast. So the story was checked out. Indeed, there was a man named Maha Ram who was killed by a shotgun blast to the chest. An autopsy report recorded the man's chest wounds - which corresponded directly with the boy's birthmarks.
* A man from Thailand claimed that when he was a child he had distinct memories of a past life - as his own paternal uncle. This man had a large scar-like birthmark on the back of his head. His uncle, it turns out, died from a severe knife wound to that very part of his head.
[link to reluctant-messenger.com]
enjoy your transformation
i call it 'balance of the spheres' :) |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 458910 7/17/2008 8:49 AM | | Re: What will happen to the people who die between now and 2012? | Quote |
Everything that has ever happened and will happen is happening right now. in the moment of now. Time is only an illusion for the purpose of understanding and distiguishing the events. Time is for experiencing events one at a time.
When you die, time will become non-existant. At that moment you may wish to experience this world once again. SDince time does not exist then you may choose to come once again and start at a point where you left off, or be born during the 1700s and experience that moment or be born in 2212 and experience then. Time is not linear. you can be born any time anywhere and experience that moment since the events do not exist in past or future. the whole universe is happening in the moment of now. We are all living in the moment when the stars where scattered into space. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 467252
finally someone gets it |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 179704 7/17/2008 9:22 AM | | Re: What will happen to the people who die between now and 2012? | Quote | If none of the great (new-age) changes expected for the next (3-4) years happen I think very little will change in the political/economic scenario until then, because no great political/intellectual movement exists now that could bring important changes in this period. In this case, of course, it makes no essential difference to experience 2012 "here" or "there", i.e., in comparison with what it is already today... individual karmic laws governing each ones lives, etc.
If the changes happen, it depends on the changes!:-)
Good part of the new-age "predictions" talk about great cataclysms that will bring many deaths as you say in your post. In this case it's better to be on the "other side", because "here" will be hell...
Others say that people will only change "densities" but not dye and the transition will not be cataclysmic.
I tend to believe that either nothing will happen or there will be great cataclysms... I'm pretty sure that no blissful transition to "higher densities" will happen in the next 4 years, there are no indication of that IMO.
I also think of the great cataclysms as a way of performing a radical change in the world, to make it more spiritualized, I mean to accelerate the process of its spiritualization (hundreds of years evolution "condensed" into a few). If this really happens, the Earth of a few decades from now will be a "heavenly place" in comparison with what it's now... this is what I wish will happen! |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 39520 7/17/2008 10:26 AM | | Re: What will happen to the people who die between now and 2012? | Quote |
Everything that has ever happened and will happen is happening right now. in the moment of now. Time is only an illusion for the purpose of understanding and distiguishing the events. Time is for experiencing events one at a time.
When you die, time will become non-existant. At that moment you may wish to experience this world once again. SDince time does not exist then you may choose to come once again and start at a point where you left off, or be born during the 1700s and experience that moment or be born in 2212 and experience then. Time is not linear. you can be born any time anywhere and experience that moment since the events do not exist in past or future. the whole universe is happening in the moment of now. We are all living in the moment when the stars where scattered into space.
finally someone gets it Quoting: Anonymous Coward 458910
Sorry I am a newbie in all this reincarnation stuff, I want to try to understand the concept and rules. I am not sure of believing it too, to tell the truth I always thought that after death is was "game over". For me it always made sense, I am believing that all living species have a body and a brain (electric activities, that make all your body work, create imagination, love, thinking, dreaming, telling you when you are hungry, create sadness or depressiveness in response to incoming input, etc). When the brain die, the body automatically die. Then it's over because there is no more electrical activities to run the "machine". The brain (electric) is very powerful and recent studies show that people seeing ghost or having OBE is in fact created by the brain (I do not want however to enter in this discussion).
Anyway, here are somes questions that I have to try to understand your believing:
1) Does this reincarnation thing is only valid for humans or the bug that I killed yesterday by stepping on it can reincarnate too? If so, it can reincarnate in another bug or anything that is possible (pig, fish, ...) ? Who choose? The living entity or another entity?
2) If reincarnation exist, how do you explain that humans populations increase over years and that we have never been so much. It should be something like a 1 for 1 no? I.e. 1 die, 1 is born. If it does not apply, how do you explain the increase of humans with reincarnation?
3) You say: "At that moment you may wish to experience this world once again.". What happen if you do not wish to experience the world again? Where do you go? Where is that place that you can make your decision? Is there a counselor or someone (you do not want to enter in religion, neither do I, but I guess it may be what some people call god? )
4) I have problem believing that time is not linear: I have problem understanding that the year 1700 for example as we know it, may be different tomorrow if someone chose to reincarnate in that time and modify the history of this time with his actions.
That is for now, I will come back later , thank you, trying to understand. I am open-minded. |
| Earth Daughter User ID: 467927 7/17/2008 10:49 AM | | Re: What will happen to the people who die between now and 2012? | Quote |
1) Does this reincarnation thing is only valid for humans or the bug that I killed yesterday by stepping on it can reincarnate too? If so, it can reincarnate in another bug or anything that is possible (pig, fish, ...) ? Who choose? The living entity or another entity?
2) If reincarnation exist, how do you explain that humans populations increase over years and that we have never been so much. It should be something like a 1 for 1 no? I.e. 1 die, 1 is born. If it does not apply, how do you explain the increase of humans with reincarnation?
3) You say: "At that moment you may wish to experience this world once again.". What happen if you do not wish to experience the world again? Where do you go? Where is that place that you can make your decision? Is there a counselor or someone (you do not want to enter in religion, neither do I, but I guess it may be what some people call god? )
4) I have problem believing that time is not linear: I have problem understanding that the year 1700 for example as we know it, may be different tomorrow if someone chose to reincarnate in that time and modify the history of this time with his actions. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 39520
1) No, not only humans, energy is energy. All energy has consciousness and as that consciousness evolves, it chooses more and more complex life forms to enter.
A bug can reincarnate into, let's say, an iguana, if it serves the purpose of its soul to evolve in this way.
Your soul may have started as a bug or a tree and move up to more and more complex life forms.
You choose to reincarnate in a physical body that would be most beneficial to your development. After all the lifetimes you have lived, it would not benefit you, or your developing consciousness to return to being a bug. You have learned that lesson already. It would be like returning to preschool to learn your colors and numbers again.
** Sorry I'll answer the rest later. I need to go for a bit. |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 179704 7/17/2008 11:26 AM | | Re: What will happen to the people who die between now and 2012? | Quote | Here are my points of view but I'm sure others have more deep thoughts about this,
1) Does this reincarnation thing is only valid for humans or the bug that I killed yesterday by stepping on it can reincarnate too? If so, it can reincarnate in another bug or anything that is possible (pig, fish, ...) ? Who choose? The living entity or another entity? Quoting: Anonymous Coward 39520
I think life is a kind of "property" of the Universe that is governed by specific laws among them, reincarnation and evolution (towards God). "Then", all living beings do reincarnate and evolve but I'd not be able to tell the details of how this is different for the "bug", for humans, or for "ET"s, etc. Probably the process becomes more complicated for more "sophisticated" beings because they "reflect" God more perfectly and the reincarnation and "karma" involves the lives of others too!... (lots quoted words eh?)
2) If reincarnation exist, how do you explain that humans populations increase over years and that we have never been so much. It should be something like a 1 for 1 no? I.e. 1 die, 1 is born. If it does not apply, how do you explain the increase of humans with reincarnation? Quoting: Anonymous Coward 39520
With regard to human reincarnation, I think that the increasing population correspond to the reincarnation of more spirits, which are already living in the "spiritual world" before that, and, in this case, there would be a limit beyond which there would be an approximately 1 to 1 proportion of births and deaths...
But there are others who say differently, that some humans (the majority of the population indeed) are here (as "humans") for the first time and that they have just come from lower levels of life (a kind of upgrading from the animal kingdom) and are living their first human experiences... I tend to believe that this could be true in the distant past of humanity but not now...
3) You say: "At that moment you may wish to experience this world once again.". What happen if you do not wish to experience the world again? Where do you go? Where is that place that you can make your decision? Is there a counselor or someone (you do not want to enter in religion, neither do I, but I guess it may be what some people call god? ) Quoting: Anonymous Coward 39520
From what I can understand of the concepts I've read, a person may not wish to reincarnate and try to force to stay in the spiritual world for a long time, but there are some factors, like "getting bored", seeing others evolve while he/she stays at same place, being "forced" by "superior beings" in some circumstances, etc. that would change this status.
When the decision/wish to reincarnate is taken/manifest, the "superior beings" (above human level or very spiritualized humans) will take the person to his/her next incarnation.
4) I have problem believing that time is not linear: I have problem understanding that the year 1700 for example as we know it, may be different tomorrow if someone chose to reincarnate in that time and modify the history of this time with his actions. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 39520
Me too!:-)
I believe that the linearity of time is *necessary* at our level of existence, but maybe not for the "superior beings" that I talked about before... that including, of course, the "supreme being", God...
Some say that God *is* the Universe, for example in the following thread (about the middle of the page)
[link to www.godlikeproductions.com]
we find,
"God is the universe and you communian with God is communian with your higherself, worship isnt necessary only understanding what the messages were are..."
(at the end of that page I re-posted *your questions* (if you don't mind!:-) just to see which the answers of the OP of that thread will be)
That is for now, I will come back later , thank you, trying to understand. I am open-minded. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 39520
Thanks for your questions, it was interesting to check my own knowledge on these things!:-) |
| Earth Daughter User ID: 467927 7/17/2008 11:54 AM | | Re: What will happen to the people who die between now and 2012? | Quote |
1) Does this reincarnation thing is only valid for humans or the bug that I killed yesterday by stepping on it can reincarnate too? If so, it can reincarnate in another bug or anything that is possible (pig, fish, ...) ? Who choose? The living entity or another entity?
2) If reincarnation exist, how do you explain that humans populations increase over years and that we have never been so much. It should be something like a 1 for 1 no? I.e. 1 die, 1 is born. If it does not apply, how do you explain the increase of humans with reincarnation?
3) You say: "At that moment you may wish to experience this world once again.". What happen if you do not wish to experience the world again? Where do you go? Where is that place that you can make your decision? Is there a counselor or someone (you do not want to enter in religion, neither do I, but I guess it may be what some people call god? )
4) I have problem believing that time is not linear: I have problem understanding that the year 1700 for example as we know it, may be different tomorrow if someone chose to reincarnate in that time and modify the history of this time with his actions.
1) No, not only humans, energy is energy. All energy has consciousness and as that consciousness evolves, it chooses more and more complex life forms to enter.
A bug can reincarnate into, let's say, an iguana, if it serves the purpose of its soul to evolve in this way.
Your soul may have started as a bug or a tree and move up to more and more complex life forms.
You choose to reincarnate in a physical body that would be most beneficial to your development. After all the lifetimes you have lived, it would not benefit you, or your developing consciousness to return to being a bug. You have learned that lesson already. It would be like returning to preschool to learn your colors and numbers again.
** Sorry I'll answer the rest later. I need to go for a bit. Quoting: Earth Daughter 467927
OK I'm back
2)New souls are created continuously. Also, souls from elsewhere can choose to reincarnate on Earth. Your soul can choose to reincarnate elsewhere in the universe as well if it would be for your greatest good.
3)Everyone belongs to a 'soul group'. This group of souls aid each other in deciding what kind of experience would help you develop the most. A plan is made, a blueprint. Some of your group reincarnates with you as people in your family or as people you will eventually meet. You decide ahead of time how you can best help each other during this incarnation whether it be a friend or and adversary role. Others in your group do not take bodily form during your reincarnation and serve as your spirit guides during your life times. You do the same for them when it is their turn.
4)I'm unclear on this, but my intuition says that the possibility for different timelines existing simultaneously can be one explaination. There are streams of consciousness that exist and highways of light dimensionality. I believe E.T.'s travel these light corridors when shifting dimensionally.
I suppose if you wanted to travel a time corridor and go to the 1700's , you can. People do this in OBE's. But would it be in your best interest to reincarnate in a time that you most likely have already lived through? If each experience you have builds on the previous one, then, again, this seems like going back to Kindergarten. Remember, consciousness is not just individual, it is planetary as well. The consciousness of the 1700's would not have been as evolved as it is today. I don't this it would appeal to a soul who has already lived in that time. But for the new souls on that time line, it would be ideal. |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 467252 7/17/2008 11:56 AM | | Re: What will happen to the people who die between now and 2012? | Quote |
1) Does this reincarnation thing is only valid for humans or the bug that I killed yesterday by stepping on it can reincarnate too? If so, it can reincarnate in another bug or anything that is possible (pig, fish, ...) ? Who choose? The living entity or another entity?
2) If reincarnation exist, how do you explain that humans populations increase over years and that we have never been so much. It should be something like a 1 for 1 no? I.e. 1 die, 1 is born. If it does not apply, how do you explain the increase of humans with reincarnation?
3) You say: "At that moment you may wish to experience this world once again.". What happen if you do not wish to experience the world again? Where do you go? Where is that place that you can make your decision? Is there a counselor or someone (you do not want to enter in religion, neither do I, but I guess it may be what some people call god? )
4) I have problem believing that time is not linear: I have problem understanding that the year 1700 for example as we know it, may be different tomorrow if someone chose to reincarnate in that time and modify the history of this time with his actions.
That is for now, I will come back later , thank you, trying to understand. I am open-minded. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 39520
1/ It is valid for all living beings. What we see is flesh and a brain, but that is not all of us. We have a mind but our mind is not in our brain (brain is simply a hard disk). Our mind is all over us, within and without. We are all an energy entity with a very high vibration. This energy is not part of the physical body but the body is part of this energy. When this energy reduces part of its vibration, it leads to manifestation of physical. (energy turning in to matter). This energy is called the spirit in conventional terms. The spirit is not in the physical body but the body is at the centre of this energy.
All living beings consist of this raw energy (hence the saying: We are all one). All are part of the same energy of the universe but each has its own vibrational speed. Hence giving it its own unique individuality even though it is part of the same supreme energy. At the moment of death, this energy drops its material body and releases itself from the illusion of time and space thus ending the experience of physicality.
Each energy unit wishes to know itself as being part of the larger picture through experience and thus must evolve as the universe does step by step.
Just as the material universe has evolved step by step, so must the spiritual universe do the same since they are both part of each other. A bug will be a bug in body and thus the energy within will experience the joys of being a bug until the next evolution according to its own choosing without interference from another source since there exists no other source but itself. Evolution of body will go hand in hand with the step by step experience of the energy that surrounds it. Important to know that evolution always moves forward, hence reincarnation will also move forward.
2/ From the beginning of the universe or what we call the big bang there was a finite number of energy units. Infact the supreme energy unit that existed wanted to experience itself as who it was and since there was nothing outside of itself (it was all there was-“I am that I am”) split itself to a finite number of units. Each unit is infact a tentacle, a ray of the supreme energy. The supreme energy experiences itself through the experiences of its own individual units. The collection of all these units in the universe is a sum total in which conventionally is called God.
Since the universe is much bigger than you and I can comprehend, one can not limit the number of individual units to this planet only. One death will not necessarily show a result in one birth. We do not have the capability to comprehend all of universe at once. The calculations can not be limited to this material world only.
3/ As explained above each energy unit is part of the bigger picture. Not wishing to be reborn again is only a part of an individuality. At any one time you exist in infinite possible time and space. In fact you exist everywhere all at the same time, but you chose to experience certain events by entering that time and space era. The physical world as far as we are concerned is the only possible way at the moment for each energy unit to experience part of itself (notice that I said part of itself). You can exist and you do indeed exist in more than one place at the same time. You exist everywhere at all times in all places. Be it past , present or future. Perhaps the meaning of “we are all one” becomes a bit clearer.
There is nowhere for an energy unit to go since there is no time and space except in imagination of the mind. The universe is a creation of the supreme energy unit that is the sum total of the finite smaller units. You as an individual unit have always been where you wanted to be except you do not remember it. That is how this fantastic game works. There is nowhere to go. You are here in this world so through your experiences you realise where you are and have always been.
You can not DO, but you can BE.
“To BE or not to BE, that is the question”
Can you now see what he was trying to say.
There exist no such a thing as a councillor so to speak. You make your own decisions through your own experiences, judgments and the cause and effect laws that you have set up for yourself if this game is to continue. Although you can effectively open yourself in to ether to allow other energy units (which are part of your other selves) to merge somewhat and offer positive energy. To explain this further would require much more writing than this…… and I will leave it at that.
4/ Think of time this way…. Instead of looking at it as past, present and future from say left to right , think of it as stacked on top of each other in a moment of now. Past , present and future all stacked up on top of each other vertically like pages of a book. All of it is happening now all at the same time. For an energy unit to be able to comprehend and experience certain events then an illusion of time must be created. Infact time is like a magnifying glass that allows an energy unit to take a more detailed look and thus experience certain events for the purpose of knowing itself.
To know yourself is not enough. Knowledge without experience and works has no bearing. You can know yourself to be kind but unless you do an act of kindness you will not be able to experience that attribute within yourself. Ofcourse you do not need to experience every single knowledge by yourself in order to become aware of yourself. For example you do not need to commit a murder before you realise that killing does not serve your purpose to elevate yourself.
Finally , know that you are all knowing, there is nothing that you do not know. A part of you (only a part of you) is here in this material world to experience a part of yourself by putting in to action what you already know within.
I realise that perhaps I have raised more questions now that you asked for in your posts. But I hope that I have somewhat explained myself. Hope that this is sufficient for now. peace |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 465397 7/17/2008 12:24 PM | | Re: What will happen to the people who die between now and 2012? | Quote | I'm just going to throw this into the discussion:
People generally have this assumption that there is some sort of "progression" of the soul....from rock to tree to bug to animal to human.
Why does that have to be so? It seems to me that the lesser (in our mind) creatures are much more in tune with nature and the universe than humans are!
When I watch a flock of birds, they swoop, dive or turn in unison as if there is an unspoken telepathy running through them.
When I watched an anthill as a child I saw community at work. There was no "That's not my job" or "This is mine...go get your own." type of mentality. (Or so it appeared in my mind)
Watch a tree when a storm is approaching. Many times, they will turn their leaves over.
What about the animal's instincts in the 2004 tsunami?
IMO, all experiences are valid and valuable. I don't see a progression. It's quite possible that some of us SHOULD become an ant for a day to learn community. Or become a bird or a tree. And in thinking about it....why wouldn't we WANT to?
It appears to me that the human kind is actually the LEAST in tune with nature and the universe. |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 466010 7/17/2008 12:26 PM | | Re: What will happen to the people who die between now and 2012? | Quote |
1) Does this reincarnation thing is only valid for humans or the bug that I killed yesterday by stepping on it can reincarnate too? If so, it can reincarnate in another bug or anything that is possible (pig, fish, ...) ? Who choose? The living entity or another entity?
2) If reincarnation exist, how do you explain that humans populations increase over years and that we have never been so much. It should be something like a 1 for 1 no? I.e. 1 die, 1 is born. If it does not apply, how do you explain the increase of humans with reincarnation?
3) You say: "At that moment you may wish to experience this world once again.". What happen if you do not wish to experience the world again? Where do you go? Where is that place that you can make your decision? Is there a counselor or someone (you do not want to enter in religion, neither do I, but I guess it may be what some people call god? )
4) I have problem believing that time is not linear: I have problem understanding that the year 1700 for example as we know it, may be different tomorrow if someone chose to reincarnate in that time and modify the history of this time with his actions.
That is for now, I will come back later , thank you, trying to understand. I am open-minded.
1/ It is valid for all living beings. What we see is flesh and a brain, but that is not all of us. We have a mind but our mind is not in our brain (brain is simply a hard disk). Our mind is all over us, within and without. We are all an energy entity with a very high vibration. This energy is not part of the physical body but the body is part of this energy. When this energy reduces part of its vibration, it leads to manifestation of physical. (energy turning in to matter). This energy is called the spirit in conventional terms. The spirit is not in the physical body but the body is at the centre of this energy.
All living beings consist of this raw energy (hence the saying: We are all one). All are part of the same energy of the universe but each has its own vibrational speed. Hence giving it its own unique individuality even though it is part of the same supreme energy. At the moment of death, this energy drops its material body and releases itself from the illusion of time and space thus ending the experience of physicality.
Each energy unit wishes to know itself as being part of the larger picture through experience and thus must evolve as the universe does step by step.
Just as the material universe has evolved step by step, so must the spiritual universe do the same since they are both part of each other. A bug will be a bug in body and thus the energy within will experience the joys of being a bug until the next evolution according to its own choosing without interference from another source since there exists no other source but itself. Evolution of body will go hand in hand with the step by step experience of the energy that surrounds it. Important to know that evolution always moves forward, hence reincarnation will also move forward.
2/ From the beginning of the universe or what we call the big bang there was a finite number of energy units. Infact the supreme energy unit that existed wanted to experience itself as who it was and since there was nothing outside of itself (it was all there was-“I am that I am”) split itself to a finite number of units. Each unit is infact a tentacle, a ray of the supreme energy. The supreme energy experiences itself through the experiences of its own individual units. The collection of all these units in the universe is a sum total in which conventionally is called God.
Since the universe is much bigger than you and I can comprehend, one can not limit the number of individual units to this planet only. One death will not necessarily show a result in one birth. We do not have the capability to comprehend all of universe at once. The calculations can not be limited to this material world only.
3/ As explained above each energy unit is part of the bigger picture. Not wishing to be reborn again is only a part of an individuality. At any one time you exist in infinite possible time and space. In fact you exist everywhere all at the same time, but you chose to experience certain events by entering that time and space era. The physical world as far as we are concerned is the only possible way at the moment for each energy unit to experience part of itself (notice that I said part of itself). You can exist and you do indeed exist in more than one place at the same time. You exist everywhere at all times in all places. Be it past , present or future. Perhaps the meaning of “we are all one” becomes a bit clearer.
There is nowhere for an energy unit to go since there is no time and space except in imagination of the mind. The universe is a creation of the supreme energy unit that is the sum total of the finite smaller units. You as an individual unit have always been where you wanted to be except you do not remember it. That is how this fantastic game works. There is nowhere to go. You are here in this world so through your experiences you realise where you are and have always been.
You can not DO, but you can BE.
“To BE or not to BE, that is the question”
Can you now see what he was trying to say.
There exist no such a thing as a councillor so to speak. You make your own decisions through your own experiences, judgments and the cause and effect laws that you have set up for yourself if this game is to continue. Although you can effectively open yourself in to ether to allow other energy units (which are part of your other selves) to merge somewhat and offer positive energy. To explain this further would require much more writing than this…… and I will leave it at that.
4/ Think of time this way…. Instead of looking at it as past, present and future from say left to right , think of it as stacked on top of each other in a moment of now. Past , present and future all stacked up on top of each other vertically like pages of a book. All of it is happening now all at the same time. For an energy unit to be able to comprehend and experience certain events then an illusion of time must be created. Infact time is like a magnifying glass that allows an energy unit to take a more detailed look and thus experience certain events for the purpose of knowing itself.
To know yourself is not enough. Knowledge without experience and works has no bearing. You can know yourself to be kind but unless you do an act of kindness you will not be able to experience that attribute within yourself. Ofcourse you do not need to experience every single knowledge by yourself in order to become aware of yourself. For example you do not need to commit a murder before you realise that killing does not serve your purpose to elevate yourself.
Finally , know that you are all knowing, there is nothing that you do not know. A part of you (only a part of you) is here in this material world to experience a part of yourself by putting in to action what you already know within.
I realise that perhaps I have raised more questions now that you asked for in your posts. But I hope that I have somewhat explained myself. Hope that this is sufficient for now. peace Quoting: Anonymous Coward 467252
wow!!!!!!!! finally!! thats kind of what i have always kind of thought, but the way you put it makes absolute perfect sense! |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 459189 7/17/2008 12:27 PM | | Re: What will happen to the people who die between now and 2012? | Quote |
short answer - worm food Quoting: Anonymous Coward 110292
Yep!  |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 469219 7/17/2008 12:35 PM | | Re: What will happen to the people who die between now and 2012? | Quote | They will be concerned too, because at the end of the times you'll met with ALL PEOPLE you ever met (and loved)
even those who are on the other side.
You'll be aware of ALL THE LIFES YOU LIVED !!
A big shock for all. |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 50431 7/17/2008 1:40 PM | | Re: What will happen to the people who die between now and 2012? | Quote | Thanks everyone for your answers. I must re-read them many times to be sure to understand the concepts but your answers are very good and make sense.
After my first reading, I have 2 general questions:
1) Because the positive energy is splitted in a number of finite numbers, could we say that increase of individualisms and self-to-self in the last century can be linked with the increase of humans on Earth? Meaning, that because we (as humans) being billions share less units of energy, thus creating the individualism that do not stop to growth over the years.
2) There is a big thing that I do not like about the reincarnation theory: the reincarnation concept.
I know it is the fundation of it but it sound to easy for me. Reading things like this:
"Also, souls from elsewhere can choose to reincarnate on Earth. Your soul can choose to reincarnate elsewhere in the universe as well if it would be for your greatest good."
"Evolution of body will go hand in hand with the step by step experience of the energy that surrounds it. Important to know that evolution always moves forward, hence reincarnation will also move forward."
For me, it sounds like life is just too easy. If my present life is boring, why just not kill myself and I'll evolve in my next life and it will be better? Even better, I will be able to choose when and where in the universe I want to be!
This is very important for me. Reincarnation is an interesting concept. But you need also to focus on the present life. If you believe in reincarnation but the concept is that when you die, no problem, life restart, you choose what you want and you evolve... hmm... sorry, but it's just too easy.
Believing that reincarnation do not exist and that there is no after-life is boring and sad. But THE GOOD thing about it, is that you try to give your 100% and enjoy it at the maximum of it because there is nothing after it!
You understand my point? Maybe I did not understand all but if reincarnation exist and it's that easy, well I know many peoples that will kill themselves today to begin another life tomorrow!
Thanks again. |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 465397 7/17/2008 1:52 PM | | Re: What will happen to the people who die between now and 2012? | Quote |
For me, it sounds like life is just too easy. If my present life is boring, why just not kill myself and I'll evolve in my next life and it will be better? Even better, I will be able to choose when and where in the universe I want to be!
This is very important for me. Reincarnation is an interesting concept. But you need also to focus on the present life. If you believe in reincarnation but the concept is that when you die, no problem, life restart, you choose what you want and you evolve... hmm... sorry, but it's just too easy.
Believing that reincarnation do not exist and that there is no after-life is boring and sad. But THE GOOD thing about it, is that you try to give your 100% and enjoy it at the maximum of it because there is nothing after it!
You understand my point? Maybe I did not understand all but if reincarnation exist and it's that easy, well I know many peoples that will kill themselves today to begin another life tomorrow!
Thanks again. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 50431
Look at it this way:
There is FAR too much to learn and experience in one "lifespan" of approx. 70-80 physical years. If you kill yourself because you don't like the current hand that life dealt you, what have you learned or experienced from it? You would basically have quit rather than try to understand it. So maybe down the road you are given the opportunity to re-experience the conditions of the life you gave up....but now you are better prepared spiritually (hopefully) to figure out how to deal with it and gain the insight into it's lesson.
You are right though. It's important to try to give 100% in any lifetime. To be open to the experience of it, rather than run from it. |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 4776 7/17/2008 1:57 PM | | Re: What will happen to the people who die between now and 2012? | Quote | "The only two I could think of (isn't that sad?) were.....
Bill Hicks (comedian)
and
Ian Lungold (Mayan Calendric researcher)
(feel free to add to the list of people that seem to fit into that "category")"
Kent Steadman |
| Dervish User ID: 416254 7/17/2008 2:06 PM
 | | Re: What will happen to the people who die between now and 2012? | Quote | I am going to post and hopefully i will not sound bitter,angry or just assholish.
I take data points from multiple areas when I think about stuff like this,so bear with me.
When YOU die. Game over. You are just worm food.By YOU I mean all of us and our definition of ourselves. What we call ourselves is just the ego and meat. The meat is a vessel to experience life. The ego is the product of the environment that the meat deals with. driven by biology, survival, sex etc. that is what most everyone defines ME as.
That part of us dies because it must.But a part does survive to the "other side".That is our true self. One that is a tad indifferent to everything in the world,knowing that it is all an illusion and an act. It knows the role we play today is just the result of circumstances that it itself help arrainged.
That is the true you. Reincarnation per say may not exist..in that Dervish won't ever come back to earth. The oversoul may one day choose to animate another vessel and that may or may not have my wit and charm :), but the actual YOu and ME as we define it is just an actor.
Enlightenment ,again IMHO, must be when you get that. This physical is just a stage set. The real you is who you must find.
When you get to it, you then realize that you are a part of it like cells. The it is also attached to the ultimate IT.
The physical is maya, illusion. Atman is Brahman.
At death the illusion dies.And you are face to face with the real you. Thats why god knows everything. You are a part of it.It is a part of you.
Anyhow, I could be completely wrong. the Christian riles and the Aryan smiles
and it weareth the Christian down
And the end of the fight
is a tombstone white
with the name of the late deceased --
and the epitaph drear:
"A fool lies here
who tried to hustle the East!"
-Rudyard Kipling |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 467252 7/17/2008 2:44 PM | | Re: What will happen to the people who die between now and 2012? | Quote |
You understand my point? Maybe I did not understand all but if reincarnation exist and it's that easy, well I know many peoples that will kill themselves today to begin another life tomorrow!
Thanks again. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 50431
Are you the same person who asked me the original 4 questions? Not that it matters but your ID number is different than the one with 4 questions.
In any case I will try to answer.
While we are with the body we entertain such attributes that are only associated with material world. Attributes such as Anger, Greed, Ego, Hate etc etc. Away from the material world these attributes do not exist. Only truth remains. The spirit is working for the good of self and nothing else. It is all knowing, all wise and all compassionate as it should be since the spirit (energy unit) is part of the sum total. The energy unit can not, will not fool itself. It does not lie to itself for if it did it would self defeat itself. The energy unit knows that it is part of the grander picture and thus knows that hurting another is hurting the self since itself is part of the rest.
This is where the saying “Do on to others as you would have done on to yourself” comes from
There is no one else to judge but itself. In fact even self judgment does not exist. Only understanding of what serves itself. What serves itself is not getting out of the deep-end hoping to be better off next time. The energy unit is much wiser than that. It understands the reasoning behind everything that exists and that is why it is there to begin with.
Now the very act of killing oneself is evidence of evolvement which becomes self defeating and the spirit knows this. After such death, the veil of obscurity is lifted and the grand picture of things becomes clear. The spirit will then reflects back on that experience and will make decision based on its some total feelings for the good of all.
There exists no such a thing as Karma but there is a natural law that applies to all without judgment and that is called the law of cause and effect. It can not be broken or diverted. It is simply a natural universal law that is in fact self created as it goes along.
If you cause a ball to be hit a certain direction then that ball will move according to how you hit it. Put the ball back exactly as it was and try hitting it differently. The law of cause and effect dictates that the ball should be moved in a different direction too.
Now if you cause certain events to happen in material world then the sum total of all your causes will naturally dictate the actions that follow. Be it while in this life or another.
Causing oneself to be killed because of wanting a better life (better is a matter of prospective in material world and does not necessarily mean better for the spirit) will have a different affect than causing oneself to be killed in order to save a 100 lives. Notice that both are the same actions and yet the underlying reason behind one is selfishness and the other is selflessness.
The reasoning behind every cause and the feeling it generates will determine the effects it will have.
Yes life indeed is very easy if one tries to keep up with what is truly best for the self without greed and ego etc. In fact life is much easier than that and it was always meant to be a bundle of joy so to speak. What complicates life is not life itself but the way we allow our ego and greed to dictate that life.
It is possible to go a lot more in to details with this to clarify more but perhaps this is sufficient enough.
Hope it has answered your question |
| King Neptune  Desired Constellation User ID: 304696 7/17/2008 2:47 PM
 | | Re: What will happen to the people who die between now and 2012? | Quote | They go home to meet GSUS and Trinity the black leather clad dominatrix. [link to www.near-death.com]
While drifting through ORION, I noticed two Blazing Celestial Bodies racing parallel to it`s center, looking as Twin Arrows exiting from an Archers Bow and headed straight for the "Blue Marble" of home. Immediately a vision of Millions of people crying because of the devastation of portions of New York City came to me.
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