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| | Page 1, 2 | What will happen to the people who die between now and 2012?
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 258359
7/17/2008 3:37 PM | | Re: What will happen to the people who die between now and 2012? | Quote |
All of the above is true...Just depends on your perception in the moment. I love these..."whats it all about" threads on glp. |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 272521 (OP)
7/17/2008 3:56 PM | | Re: What will happen to the people who die between now and 2012? | Quote |
This is the OP.
WOW.... thanks so much for all the incredible and thoughtful responses.
Some great info and opinions about reincarnation. I agree with most of what has been expressed.... this is always a dicey subject, because everyone has a "personal" (in one way of looking at it) investment in what the "outcome" may be.
In my original question though, I was intending to focus more specifically on 2012.
Let's say that there IS going to be some kind of "global change in consciousness" around that time (just for the sake of argument).
How do you think that will effect people on the planet versus those who have passed? And again, I'm sure it will be different for everyone.... but there must be certain "scenarios" that are more likely than others.
That's why I picked someone like Ian Lungold. (fill in the name of whoever you think of as a "spiritually-minded/aware/kind" person) It just seems (and again, I could be way wrong), that HIS experience of 2012 (even though he's NOT incarnate.... that I know of anyway) would be far different than someone who passed last year for example and never gave a thought to anything spiritual, was completely selfish, and was basically a jerky type of person.
Will all of these people in various states of being (on the other side), have the same "opportunities" to change and move on with everyone else? Do they have an advantage being discarnate? Do they have a DISadvantage being discarnate?
This is all hypothetical.... I'm just trying to get my point/question across.
Thanks so much for all the input folks. It is much appreciated. |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 272521 (OP)
7/17/2008 4:17 PM | | Re: What will happen to the people who die between now and 2012? | Quote |
I am going to post and hopefully i will not sound bitter,angry or just assholish.
I take data points from multiple areas when I think about stuff like this,so bear with me.
When YOU die. Game over. You are just worm food.By YOU I mean all of us and our definition of ourselves. What we call ourselves is just the ego and meat. The meat is a vessel to experience life. The ego is the product of the environment that the meat deals with. driven by biology, survival, sex etc. that is what most everyone defines ME as.
That part of us dies because it must.But a part does survive to the "other side".That is our true self. One that is a tad indifferent to everything in the world,knowing that it is all an illusion and an act. It knows the role we play today is just the result of circumstances that it itself help arrainged.
That is the true you. Reincarnation per say may not exist..in that Dervish won't ever come back to earth. The oversoul may one day choose to animate another vessel and that may or may not have my wit and charm :), but the actual YOu and ME as we define it is just an actor.
Enlightenment ,again IMHO, must be when you get that. This physical is just a stage set. The real you is who you must find.
When you get to it, you then realize that you are a part of it like cells. The it is also attached to the ultimate IT.
The physical is maya, illusion. Atman is Brahman.
At death the illusion dies.And you are face to face with the real you. Thats why god knows everything. You are a part of it.It is a part of you.
Anyhow, I could be completely wrong. Quoting: Dervish
Sorry I can't reply to everyones posts because there have been so many good ones.... but I wanted to reply to this one because it is very very close to how I feel about things.
So.... in your opinion, the whole "2012 factor" isn't going to make any difference to what we THINK of as "individuals" because it is all part of the illusory "stage set"? Like 2012 would be no different than any other "time" or "event" because one "unreal" thing can't be more "important" than another "unreal" thing?
Hope that makes sense! :-) |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 467252
7/17/2008 5:12 PM | | Re: What will happen to the people who die between now and 2012? | Quote |
This is the OP.
Will all of these people in various states of being (on the other side), have the same "opportunities" to change and move on with everyone else? Do they have an advantage being discarnate? Do they have a DISadvantage being discarnate?
This is all hypothetical.... I'm just trying to get my point/question across.
Thanks so much for all the input folks. It is much appreciated. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 272521
In the material and physical world the perception is that 2012 is linear. A time spot that is in future that will become a present time and then becomes past never to be seen again. However away from the physicality time becomes non-existent. 2012 is a permanent spot that has always been there. Never moving, never beginning and never ending. As I mentioned in my earlier post before, it may serve you well to think of time units as individual moments stacked on top of each other vertically like sheets of paper. With that assumption in mind 2012 becomes a permanent spot in universe that was created with the big bang at once along with everything else in a blink of an eye so to speak.
Therefore although 2012 might have a significant effect on those energy unit who have decided to experience this event, it will not be missed by other energy units. The souls will have an opportunity to experience that moment in time as and when they wish. Those who have gone before 2012 may well have already experienced this moment before or will experience it at another life time. Point is that this time line is not linear in the spiritual world and hence can be reached once again or over and over again by an energy units according to the experience that energy unit wishes to have.
It is also not feasible to think that one may be more deserving than another to witness this event for each soul will have a choice regarding their experiences in the material world. |
| Jomama
User ID: 446229
7/17/2008 5:24 PM | | Anonymous Coward
User ID: 272521 (OP)
7/17/2008 10:19 PM | | Re: What will happen to the people who die between now and 2012? | Quote |
This is the OP.
Will all of these people in various states of being (on the other side), have the same "opportunities" to change and move on with everyone else? Do they have an advantage being discarnate? Do they have a DISadvantage being discarnate?
This is all hypothetical.... I'm just trying to get my point/question across.
Thanks so much for all the input folks. It is much appreciated.
In the material and physical world the perception is that 2012 is linear. A time spot that is in future that will become a present time and then becomes past never to be seen again. However away from the physicality time becomes non-existent. 2012 is a permanent spot that has always been there. Never moving, never beginning and never ending. As I mentioned in my earlier post before, it may serve you well to think of time units as individual moments stacked on top of each other vertically like sheets of paper. With that assumption in mind 2012 becomes a permanent spot in universe that was created with the big bang at once along with everything else in a blink of an eye so to speak.
Therefore although 2012 might have a significant effect on those energy unit who have decided to experience this event, it will not be missed by other energy units. The souls will have an opportunity to experience that moment in time as and when they wish. Those who have gone before 2012 may well have already experienced this moment before or will experience it at another life time. Point is that this time line is not linear in the spiritual world and hence can be reached once again or over and over again by an energy units according to the experience that energy unit wishes to have.
It is also not feasible to think that one may be more deserving than another to witness this event for each soul will have a choice regarding their experiences in the material world. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 467252
That is one of the most interesting, thought-provoking and helpful posts I've ever read. Thank you very much for that.
OP |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 179704
7/18/2008 6:51 AM | | Re: What will happen to the people who die between now and 2012? | Quote |
Thanks everyone for your answers. I must re-read them many times to be sure to understand the concepts but your answers are very good and make sense. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 50431
I've read and liked them too but I have some disagreements that I'll post later. I think that it was the honesty of your questions that brought about so many interesting answer.
1) Because the positive energy is splitted in a number of finite numbers, could we say that increase of individualisms and self-to-self in the last century can be linked with the increase of humans on Earth? Meaning, that because we (as humans) being billions share less units of energy, thus creating the individualism that do not stop to growth over the years. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 50431
I believe selfishness is a choice as it is to be generous and STO (Service-to-Others=good-hearted) but the selfishness of others may *induce* a person to be selfish too. IF the person has not yet become "deeply" STO this may affect his/her decision of how to react to the violence/selfishness of others. I believe that this is cause of the large problems that we (humans) have created and have had to solve in the last century, but I also believe that we're living in "special times", critical times, because we're facing problems that could lead to our extinction as species and this never happened before.
2) There is a big thing that I do not like about the reincarnation theory: the reincarnation concept. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 50431
hehe!
I know it is the fundation of it but it sound to easy for me. Reading things like this:
"Also, souls from elsewhere can choose to reincarnate on Earth. Your soul can choose to reincarnate elsewhere in the universe as well if it would be for your greatest good." Quoting: Anonymous Coward 50431
I believe these phrases are generally correct but the *detail* may be not totally clear. I mean, the souls cannot choose to go to another planet (reincarnate there) only for the fun of it. As she said, it could happen if would be for his/her "greatest good" but the decision and power to do that almost always is *not* in the hands of the reincarnating soul. There are "superior beings" (which are the evolved souls of those who don't have to reincarnate anymore/closer to God) that have the power to decide this type of things.
"Evolution of body will go hand in hand with the step by step experience of the energy that surrounds it. Important to know that evolution always moves forward, hence reincarnation will also move forward." Quoting: Anonymous Coward 50431
I think that this is a totally correct statement. The spirit evolves and so does the environment where she/he lives and we don't evolve "backwards" because of our memory of the past lives (conscious/sub-conscious), like adding bricks to build a house: if a wall has been done wrongly we have to rebuild it but don't need to throw the bricks away.
For me, it sounds like life is just too easy. If my present life is boring, why just not kill myself and I'll evolve in my next life and it will be better? Even better, I will be able to choose when and where in the universe I want to be!
This is very important for me. Reincarnation is an interesting concept. But you need also to focus on the present life. If you believe in reincarnation but the concept is that when you die, no problem, life restart, you choose what you want and you evolve... hmm... sorry, but it's just too easy. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 50431
Yes, I don't believe it's true either. I mean, you really go a come back but it's not easy at all. It's not like, if I don't like my life I'll kill myself and start again. It is *very difficult* to start again and there are many good sources that say that if a person kills itself this act is going to cause so much disturbance for him/her-self in the spiritual world. Some say that the years that you cut short here you have to live there in non-pleasant places where disturbed minded people go. This is not intended as spreading fear about the "after-life" but to indicate that there is a responsibility of ourselves with our bodies and our present reincarnation. And, surely, to reincarnate in another planet probably *way beyond* the capabilities of 99.99% of humans presently, probably a soul like Gandhi can do that, but how many Gandhi's do you know of? I mean, only a highly STO person probably can do that. But those who have sensibility about the spiritual world say also that the highly STO's usually don't want to go to distant paradises because they prefer to stay and help others.
Believing that reincarnation do not exist and that there is no after-life is boring and sad. But THE GOOD thing about it, is that you try to give your 100% and enjoy it at the maximum of it because there is nothing after it!
You understand my point? Maybe I did not understand all but if reincarnation exist and it's that easy, well I know many peoples that will kill themselves today to begin another life tomorrow!
Thanks again. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 50431
I believe that the great challenge of life is not its extension in number of years (you and me, and everyone else on GLP, could be thousands of years old) but who we *are* and how close we are of realizing *all* of our potentials.
If we think that we have so many things that we could do and many more that we could learn and realize it becomes clear that 80-90 years of incarnation is a far too short life-spam for anyone.
If we think that we're getting closer to God as the result of our evolution, then only infinite time seems a reasonable answer having in sight the amount of things that we'd have to learn and do in our lives. Then, reincarnation follows naturally.
Thank you for your questions, they're bringing many good ideas in this thread!:-) |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 179704
7/18/2008 7:53 AM | | Re: What will happen to the people who die between now and 2012? | Quote |
..........
In my original question though, I was intending to focus more specifically on 2012.
Let's say that there IS going to be some kind of "global change in consciousness" around that time (just for the sake of argument).
How do you think that will effect people on the planet versus those who have passed? And again, I'm sure it will be different for everyone.... but there must be certain "scenarios" that are more likely than others. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 272521
Hi OP! I believe that the whole point about life, here on Earth or elsewhere, is it's *evolution*. The problem that we (humans) are facing now as a species is that we're reaching a "critical point" regarding many aspects of our lives because our powers are increasing, regarding energy control, space exploration, control of our own bodies and minds, environment, etc. This is where the 2012 scenario enters, as a division between "past" and "future".
*Then*, the whole point of "2012" ideas is human evolution as species and who is prepared to live in higher levels of life with higher power over ourselves and the Universe around us and what is *the meaning* of that power after all.
These are matters that are defined in our minds and the way we live life, in the great split between selfishness(STS) and good-hearted-ness(STO) that is the obvious division among people. As I understand it, the changes (IF they happen) are essentially about the separation between these two opposites and it can only happen at the level of a person's counciousness/mind/soul.
Therefore, "2012" will happen both here and the spiritual world in a similar way and I believe that, at first, it will mean a more clear unimpeded connection between the material and spiritual worlds, because the STS spirits will be taken away to... someplace (another planet?) and we'll also be able to have more direct access to more spiritualized beings from other planets that will help us to increase our powers over ourselves and Nature.
As I understand it, the essence of the "2012" ideas is that the "bad guys" will be taken away from Earth and the STO's will remain to start a new cycle of (human) life without violence, cruelty, exploration, etc. In fact, there is more than that because the majority of "2012" ideas also talk about a "dimensional shift" of all life and the planet itself, but this I have no condition to judge as I myself have no special feelings about this. I can envision it as a possibility but not as clearly as the split between STO and STS.
Will all of these people in various states of being (on the other side), have the same "opportunities" to change and move on with everyone else? Do they have an advantage being discarnate? Do they have a DISadvantage being discarnate?
Thanks so much for all the input folks. It is much appreciated. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 272521
I believe the opportunities will be *very different* as the STS's will be taken away and the STO's will remain in the new (improved!) Earth. I don't think there is too much difference between incarnate or dis-incarnate life in this regard as the essence of the whole process is in the mind of people, which I believe does *not* change too much when the person goes to the spiritual world.
Thank you OP for this nice thread! |
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