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| | Page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 | Opinions on teaching "killer doggies" how to behave?
| AC
User ID: 320717
7/23/2008 11:15 AM | | Re: Opinions on teaching "killer doggies" how to behave? | Quote |
Animals are not nearly as "stupid" or oblivious as it seems many people assume. If you raise your baby with love, while nurturing and teaching it with love, what is good or what is bad, there is a very good chance that you will have a co-operative loving companion in your life. All dogs are different, maybe it is wise to meet a dog well before deciding to live with it, or adopt a mature one who needs a home (of which there are many).
Many things like body language and vocal inflections, as well as more abstract things such as "energy," dogs are very sensitive to. Most dogs can easily tell whether you are pleased with it or not and many can clearly sense your feelings. Animals have emotions, as well as humans, though they lack the ability to speak human languages. Though i don't doubt there may be some fantastically genius dogs who have learned a human language well, most cannot. Thus, it is very important to remember that.
Good luck with your doggie. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 472191
Absolutely agree. That's why I like Jan Fennell's positive method. [link to www.janfennellthedoglistener.com]
The dvd and book are great.
There are four circumstances you need to be aware of:
feeding
returning after an absence no matter how long
going for a walk
the last one escapes me at the moment
She teaches you to show leadership in these critical events so the dog relaxes and happily looks to you as the pack leader, relieving it of responsibilty. |
| czygyny
User ID: 418932
7/23/2008 11:25 AM | | Re: Opinions on teaching "killer doggies" how to behave? | Quote |
…When your pup gets too wild or unruly, grab it and flip it over and grab its chest and tell it NOOOOO in a deep and firm growling voice.
Trust me, it works.. you will ALWAYS be the alpha dog. Quoting: Sinanju 466508
Yikes! This is known here as an alpha roll, and it is a good way to get your face bitten. Glad it's worked for you, but its not something I would do with any breed of dog, nevertheless with a powerful one. |
| czygyny
User ID: 418932
7/23/2008 11:28 AM | | Re: Opinions on teaching "killer doggies" how to behave? | Quote |
I forgot something...
go check out www.workingdogforum.com
www.rottweiler.net is ok but they are a bunch of dog show knuckleheads and aren't going to be able to tell you much about training. The serious training people on that board are on workingdogforum so just go there for the absolute best info. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 472258
I had to smile when I saw your reference to the 'knuckleheads', because I have seen these people just shred folks trying to learn how to raise their Rotts. That is why I advised to read and not post. I found what information I needed from them and searched no further. I will bookmark the Working Dog Forum for future reference. Thanks! |
| Sinanju
User ID: 466508
7/23/2008 11:33 AM | | Re: Opinions on teaching "killer doggies" how to behave? | Quote |
"Yikes! This is known here as an alpha roll, and it is a good way to get your face bitten. Glad it's worked for you, but its not something I would do with any breed of dog, nevertheless with a powerful one."
>>If you do it at a young age.. by the time they reach 'dangerous' size.. you can give the impression with just your voice..
of course, it helps I am a large individual with a deep voice and over 17 years of experience with martial arts..
Wrist locks work on doggies too *wink* |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 432406
7/23/2008 11:44 AM | | Re: Opinions on teaching "killer doggies" how to behave? | Quote |
…When your pup gets too wild or unruly, grab it and flip it over and grab its chest and tell it NOOOOO in a deep and firm growling voice.
Trust me, it works.. you will ALWAYS be the alpha dog.
Yikes! This is known here as an alpha roll, and it is a good way to get your face bitten. Glad it's worked for you, but its not something I would do with any breed of dog, nevertheless with a powerful one. Quoting: czygyny 418932
the "alpha roll" would only be dangerous if the dog were in a fighting or attack mode, sure you dont want to bearhug a dog that is going for your throat... youl get your face bit off if you arent skilled at handling dogs like say caesar,
this is a teaching tool, and a very good one, it is a conditioning tool to instill your dominance daily or whenever they START to get out of control.it makes them submissive.
like sinjau said,"When your pup gets too wild or unruly",
start from a puppy and do this to condition the dog to understand you are alpha.
if your dog really understands you are the master and he knows what you want then he wont act out in the first place
this does work and is very valuable |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 472381
7/23/2008 2:57 PM | | Re: Opinions on teaching "killer doggies" how to behave? | Quote |
you can be dominate with just a look. No rolling necessary |
| Leo****
User ID: 89830
7/23/2008 7:25 PM
 | | Re: Opinions on teaching "killer doggies" how to behave? | Quote |
Thanks all for the great response, the diversity helps! I'm reading a lot at the moment, trying to get a grasp of all the different ideas, from the "hardliner" Leerburg.com (Ed Frawley) to the softer approaches as represented by Jan Fennell and the Amichien bonding ideas. Also great tips about forums which I read with great interest.
It is strange but I think they are all right in some aspects, and wrong in some, in relation to this particular dog of mine at this time. I'm slowly getting a picture of what works and why, and get a preparedness of what probably will be necessary later on.
One thing I learned from Ed Frawley is the importance of getting our little dog used to a crate. She only has a soft crate at the moment and she will eat herself through it in five minutes if she decides to, besides she doesn't like to even sleep there at the moment. We are on vacation for a few weeks more but soon our dog will have to spend a few hours alone, we must find ways to make her comfortable with that and a crate seems almost mandatory here. Maybe I'm wrong.
Our little doggie is absolutely fabulous at learning stuff! She is curious and very playful, when she really likes to play she goes belly up and wants to play the nipping game. This is also bite training as we "whine" loudly if she bites even mid-hard with her sharp teeth. She already learned to bite only very soft and that we generally don't like to be bitten at all. Simultaneously we have a feeling that this behavior is part of what she needs so we don't think it is a good idea to take the playful biting away completely, it doesn't feel right at this time. Maybe we're wrong about that.
Another thing is her relationship with other dogs. Here we feel it wouldn't be right at this time to follow Ed Frawley completely, we think it is important for her to learn how to interact also with other dogs. The dogs we meet that behave calm, I can allow them to greet my puppie if I take the first contact and I can be in complete control of the encounter. Not otherwise of course. Maybe that's wrong as well, our little one seems to very insecure at first with her tail between her legs but seems happy overall to get a chance to meet other dogs with a much, much higher rank than she has. I think she learns important things from these encounters.
Easy things that can be practiced already works like a charm. She already learned that she must wait for us to pass the door first, wait for us before climbing or going down stairs. She is almost housebroken already from positive reinforcement only, and she learned to give us signals when it is time. She misses some times of course but no problem at all. She learned to sit on command, waiting patiently to put on the leash or take it off. Extraordinary I must say.
Considering corrections, we found it natural to administer them in certain situations like when she starts to growl or bark at other dogs or strangers. The corrections are extremely mild of course and she is getting boatloads of love when the situation is over. She shouldn't need to feel threatened, no need to warn us about such everyday situations. Maybe we are wrong about that too but since she is such a fast learner why not use the opportunities to make her behave "exactly right" from the very beginning.
She even has learned to walk calmly at our side, not dragging us along... after two days. Of course it is much more play and sniffing around overall but we feel she is getting a hang of things already which is great! |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 472502
7/23/2008 7:40 PM | | Re: Opinions on teaching "killer doggies" how to behave? | Quote |
how are you correcting your puppy? the period between 8-12 is the most critical and you can screw up a dog for life by doing one thing wrong during this window. ie: negative experience with nail cutting. (don't cut nails during this period otherwise your dog may have issues with having it's feet touched forever)
Two book you need to read
Culture Clash by Jean Donaldson
Don't Shoot the Dog - Karen Pryor
As far as crates go, if they are not with me they are in crates until they are at least two years old.
Develope a communication system. Have the command, a positive bridge and negative bridge and then a release command (OK/YES).
ie: Sitz if the dog sitz then I wait a second and then say YES and treat. If the dog doesn't follow the command then I say uh uh if the dog sitz then I say YES as soon as the butt hits the floor and treat. If the dog doesn't sitz after the uh uh then I say NOPE and walk away to change positions. The dog will almost always follow. If you have a treat in your hand then move it slowly above the dog's head and it will sit naturally. YES and treat.
Always end the session on a positive note. Don't over train. I train for maybe 30 seconds at a time when they are pups but I do it 8-12 times per day.
Sit and Down mean the same thing, they are just different positions... they mean, don't move until I release you.
I have proofed my dogs to an hour of laying in one spot. I would never expect my dog to sit for an hour but I've proofed them to 5+minutes. They understand the concept and that's what's important.
Stay away from Ed Frawley... the real working dog guys have lots to tell you about him and her personal dogs. Behind the scenes, he's a yank and crank guy. |
| Leo****
User ID: 89830
7/23/2008 8:09 PM
| | Re: Opinions on teaching "killer doggies" how to behave? | Quote |
Ac 472502, thanks for your response! My wife is doing her dog training research in parallel and she was much less positive to Ed Fawley's methods than I am right now. She dismissed pretty much all of the corrective instruments (the prong and choke collars in particular) while I'm more open to the possibility that they may sometimes be needed. Not now of course but maybe later on if the positive and mild methods we intend to use fail to produce results.
When I talk about "correcting" this little adorable puppy, I'm just saying "shhhh" to her assertively and giving an *extremely* mild drag in her leash as a signal. It is my way of communicating to her that I'm aware of what she is perceiving and that it is ok, no danger. Maybe that doesn't even qualify as a "correction" but she responds immediately to it by quitting growling or barking.
I would be the first to admit that I'm brand spanking new at dog training but it "feels right" to not allow her to bark or growl for no reason even now as just a small puppy. I could be wrong, maybe I'm robbing her of a natural instinct and should deal with it differently?
Thanks for your input, many great ideas that I'm considering! I think there is a consensus over the need for a dog crate, I never though very much of that before but I think I'm convinced it is necessary. Always trying to learn and appreciates your experience! |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 472502
7/23/2008 8:24 PM | | Re: Opinions on teaching "killer doggies" how to behave? | Quote |
thanks. The best thing to do with a puppy is redirect. All that puppy biting and chewing.... it sucks but I always used to keep a chamois or a rag in my pocket, when the pup would start biting, I would pull it out and tease with it.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with a game of tug.
Seriously though, check out some schutzhund clubs, you'll get addicted and in 7mo everyone will be asking you how you got your pup to do "that" |
| Leo****
User ID: 89830
7/23/2008 8:53 PM
| | Re: Opinions on teaching "killer doggies" how to behave? | Quote |
thanks. The best thing to do with a puppy is redirect. All that puppy biting and chewing.... it sucks but I always used to keep a chamois or a rag in my pocket, when the pup would start biting, I would pull it out and tease with it.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with a game of tug.
Seriously though, check out some schutzhund clubs, you'll get addicted and in 7mo everyone will be asking you how you got your pup to do "that" Quoting: Anonymous Coward 472502
Good advice I believe, about redirecting. To be honest I actually like to have her biting my hand a little until I say it is enough... maybe I'm just stupid. I realize the gentle biting she does now will probably not be appreciated by anyone in a few months though. And to be honest I'm the only one in the family that actually enjoys these little nipping games so maybe it is time to quit encouraging her...
I hope I'll find a schutzhund club around where I live, sounds really interesting. I understand it is extremely important for these dogs to learn working with challenging tasks, not just basic obedience (which is also necessary of course). If not shutzhund training there may be other suitable working dog skills she can learn.
What a wonderful dog we got and I can't wait to begin working with her as soon as she is ready! Damned this is fun! |
| IFINDUOFENSIVE
User ID: 435957
7/23/2008 9:07 PM | | Re: Opinions on teaching "killer doggies" how to behave? | Quote |
Prong collars are "power steering" for doggies. Use them if you have a powerhouse breed of dog. I have a 100 lbs. solid muscle male dobe. Yeah, I could get by with a harness. But, my kids and wife might get into trouble. The prong collar is a great invention.
Sure thing... love your doggie. Just understand that the dog is just that... a dog. She wants to know her place in the pack. Love your dog by showing the wolf who is ALPHA. That will make your dog happy and will keep the peace in your house/den.
You definitely need to show a Rot that you are bigger and badder than the beast. Matter-of-fact you need to show your beast that you are the meanest baddest dog on the block.
I love my Dobe. Great friend with the best disposition of any dog that I have ever owned. But, if he steps out of line... all I have to do is give him "the look" and he backs down. Your Rot must respect you the same way... it is for both yours and her good.
Don't let your Rot get away with even a hint of aggression that you don't want her to show. 100% get in her face. Show no fear or you are doomed to failure. They will always test their place in the pack. You must always win... until the day you part ways with her.
Having said the above... I have found that large tough breeds are often the least likely to bite. Mainly because the owners know the importance of training an "aggressive" breed. Law suits are sure to follow with a Rot. The worst bite I have had from a dog was from a nasty little poodle. Owners of small breeds seem to care less about having those nasty pip squeak wolves under control.
Good luck. |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 471957
7/23/2008 9:11 PM | | Re: Opinions on teaching "killer doggies" how to behave? | Quote |
Pavlov, read some basic psychology literature. Animals are not that far off from humans in how we are trained. Ahem, conditioned.
Reinforce good behavior by modeling and reward. Use your "good dog" and "bad dog" voice judiciously. Use food, longer walks, fetch, etc. as rewards.
I have cats, had, down to one 19 YO with bad kidneys. They scratched the furniture a couple times, and only once peed on my laundry. He's on 3 meds daily, and I do a treat-med-treat-med-treat routine and he now assumes the position every morning to get his "treats". Fluids are another story.
Catch them in the act but do not immediately use to bad dog voice. Get them under control then use the bad dog voice. Show them the alternative, put on the good dog voice, and reinforce with treats, affection, etc.
Example:
Scratching. Caught in the act, do not yell, grasp paws in each hand with thumb handy because you'll need this to push out their claws later. Sandwich cat between elbows and then put on bad cat voice. Take cat to scratching post, push out those claws and mimic the scratching action on the post, put on the good cat voice and reinforce via catnip, treats and social attention at the post. This one took two or three times and it worked.
The pee thing was slightly more brutal and involved more bad cat voice and witholding of affection, but absolutely no violence. ever. That is dangerous. Dogs will accept it, cats will retaliate. Either way, it's wrong. Last comment not aimed at the OP.
NEVER UNDERESTIMATE THE POWER OF WITHOLDING AFFECTION (for short periods, 1/2 to a full day).
And good luck... |
| Leo****
User ID: 89830
7/23/2008 9:30 PM
| | Re: Opinions on teaching "killer doggies" how to behave? | Quote |
...
You definitely need to show a Rot that you are bigger and badder than the beast. Matter-of-fact you need to show your beast that you are the meanest baddest dog on the block.
... Quoting: IFINDUOFENSIVE 435957
Many interesting points.
This is perhaps the most controversial aspect and I find it on Ed Fawley's place as well. It means I must be prepared to do some serious dogfighting from time to time, to continue earning the status as "alpha dog". If my dog has to do it for me, she will become the new alpha per definition.
So whenever my dog becomes challenged by another dog, a stray dog perhaps, I must be prepared to take the fight for her... intriguing situation indeed.
I wonder how Jan Fennell thinks about that, how to deal with the situation if it cannot be avoided. |
| Leo****
User ID: 89830
7/23/2008 9:43 PM
| | Re: Opinions on teaching "killer doggies" how to behave? | Quote |
...
Example:
Scratching. Caught in the act, do not yell, grasp paws in each hand with thumb handy because you'll need this to push out their claws later. Sandwich cat between elbows and then put on bad cat voice. Take cat to scratching post, push out those claws and mimic the scratching action on the post, put on the good cat voice and reinforce via catnip, treats and social attention at the post. This one took two or three times and it worked.
The pee thing was slightly more brutal and involved more bad cat voice and witholding of affection, but absolutely no violence. ever. That is dangerous. Dogs will accept it, cats will retaliate. Either way, it's wrong. Last comment not aimed at the OP.
NEVER UNDERESTIMATE THE POWER OF WITHOLDING AFFECTION (for short periods, 1/2 to a full day).
And good luck... Quoting: Anonymous Coward 471957
Good example also with dogs, key words "caught in the act". The pee thing though, the problem is that you almost always is too late. With puppies these are accidents, and the accident already happened. With a dog at least there is no use whatsoever to try to correct things that happened more than a few seconds ago, don't know about cats but I guess it is quite similar.
So the strategy of withholding affection seems difficult to apply because the dog would have no idea what it is all about. All you are likely to produce is a sense of insecurity in the dog, that you for some reason has started to behave strangely and erratic and is not to be trusted anymore.
Maybe cats are different here? |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 471957
7/23/2008 10:05 PM | | Re: Opinions on teaching "killer doggies" how to behave? | Quote |
...
Example:
Scratching. Caught in the act, do not yell, grasp paws in each hand with thumb handy because you'll need this to push out their claws later. Sandwich cat between elbows and then put on bad cat voice. Take cat to scratching post, push out those claws and mimic the scratching action on the post, put on the good cat voice and reinforce via catnip, treats and social attention at the post. This one took two or three times and it worked.
The pee thing was slightly more brutal and involved more bad cat voice and witholding of affection, but absolutely no violence. ever. That is dangerous. Dogs will accept it, cats will retaliate. Either way, it's wrong. Last comment not aimed at the OP.
NEVER UNDERESTIMATE THE POWER OF WITHOLDING AFFECTION (for short periods, 1/2 to a full day).
And good luck...
Good example also with dogs, key words "caught in the act". The pee thing though, the problem is that you almost always is too late. With puppies these are accidents, and the accident already happened. With a dog at least there is no use whatsoever to try to correct things that happened more than a few seconds ago, don't know about cats but I guess it is quite similar.
So the strategy of withholding affection seems difficult to apply because the dog would have no idea what it is all about. All you are likely to produce is a sense of insecurity in the dog, that you for some reason has started to behave strangely and erratic and is not to be trusted anymore.
Maybe cats are different here? Quoting: Leo****
Interesting. Do not know. My cat's affection is based on raising him from kittenhood. There is a trust that needs to be cultivated with any animal. Maybe that is the approach? I used to put his butt on my knee and his paws in my left hand, and play his belly like a guitar.
Neal was aggressive when I first got him, at 3 months old. Between the bites on the back of my thighs, when I turned my back I did not know what to do. Muzzle? too cruel. One night I let him just bite me at will. Not a good thing to do. I made a commitment and would not back down. He's still my baby.
Part of that aggression was based on the fact that I was a full-time student and full-time employee. Might be separation issues. They did manifest again later when I had to to extensive travel for work.
The solution was another cat. I had no idea that it would change his behavior and was just drunk enough to take another kitty. Rory died two years ago 10/06. She totally mellowed him out, but I had to take both to the vet from their "double reverse poink".
They'd grab each other yin/yang style and grab heads with front paws and the bang eachother in the head with their hind paws. I wish I had a pic, it was the funniest thing I've seen ever. |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 204551
7/23/2008 10:17 PM | | Re: Opinions on teaching "killer doggies" how to behave? | Quote |
I have had a several dogs
and each one is better than the last.
Rotties are great dogs,
but quite protective.
They are a strong dog,
but they don't necessarily know it.
I have a "Killer Dog"
A pitbull, mastiff mix, two years old.
He's the most gentle dog I have ever had.
He is about 130 pounds, and has a gigantic bark.
I also have a ten pound poodle I rescued six years ago.
She dominates the big dork.
He also lives with four cats,
from a year old to twelve years old.
The youngest one is often soaking wet from playing with the big dog.
Of course the poodle is way too good to play with that big thing.
And she would never be caught playing with a cat.
The big dork has been trained not to snap at anything.
A jaw that big can do some damage.
I don't know if it is just this dog,
but he is completely loyal to me,
When I call, he comes right away, running.
When I tell him to sit, he sits.
I found it amazing how easy he was to train,
and how he obeys immediately.
If he thinks I am mad him, he trembles like a chihuahua
and wants to get in my lap.
This is my killer dog.
He is kind of nervous when people come to the house.
That's what worries me.
If I take him somewhere, he is great, polite,
friendly, with no nervousness, nor any sign of aggression.
If someone comes to the house, he will stand behind the poodle, and let her bark, but he is nervous, and though he is not threatening, I believe if someone appeared to
threatening to his family, he could do some damage.
Other than that, he is silly, and awesome.
He is a house dog, but I live in the boonies, and he
can run. He has picked up the little poodle's
behaviors, and it is hilarious to see him sitting on his haunches, begging like the poodle.
Your little girl will be fine, as long as you dominate her
while she is small, like picking her up until you can't
pick her up anymore. That gives her the physical contact she wants. Give her a lot of hugs, and I mean tight ones.
She'll be fine.
Oh, and if she chews shoes,
hang one around her neck for a couple of days.
She'll never touch another one. |
| Leo****
User ID: 89830
7/24/2008 12:35 PM
| | Re: Opinions on teaching "killer doggies" how to behave? | Quote |
...
They'd grab each other yin/yang style and grab heads with front paws and the bang eachother in the head with their hind paws. I wish I had a pic, it was the funniest thing I've seen ever. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 471957
All those pictures we never took... damned! Would be fun to see indeed!
You hit the nail I believe with you diagnosis of the initial behavior problems, these are similar as when dogs are under-stimulated. No animals (except from goldfish etc...) like to be left alone for long periods.
Rotties expect a lot of work to feel happy and this is part of why we wanted a dog of this type - let's say it wouldn't hurt with some more activity for us all and now we got the perfect reason to change our habits dramatically!
It is almost like we ar prepared to take our punishment in the "or else" situation... we know very well what will be the likely consequences: a chewed up living room, etc. |
| Leo****
User ID: 89830
7/24/2008 2:22 PM
| | Re: Opinions on teaching "killer doggies" how to behave? | Quote |
I have had a several dogs
and each one is better than the last. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 204551
I can imagine how your dog training skills evolve over time, also the understanding of how they think and feel in different situations. Although there are great differences in different dogs breeds and individuals there are probably much more differences in the skills we are able to show.
All I bring to the table here, as this is my first dog, is a great will to learn extremely fast... hope it will be sufficient.
...
I have a "Killer Dog"
A pitbull, mastiff mix, two years old.
He's the most gentle dog I have ever had.
He is about 130 pounds, and has a gigantic bark.
... Quoting: Anonymous Coward 204551
What a "monster"!! Congratulations! I love those dogs as well but was advised not to get one of these breeds or mixes *because too many people are afraid of them*. I guess you have had your share of prejudice, always having to prove how nice your dog really is. In the long run i guess that must be tedious but then again, think of yourself as a great ambassador for this type of dog and that it counts in the long run what you are doing.
He also lives with four cats,
from a year old to twelve years old.
The youngest one is often soaking wet from playing with the big dog.
Of course the poodle is way too good to play with that big thing.
And she would never be caught playing with a cat. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 204551
Haha, I can imagine. Poodles are one of the most intelligent breeds they say, now I begin to doubt it. Who can resist playing with cats?
Seriously though, I'd like to have my dog not only accepting but actually loving cats as well, without me having to get a cat of our own. There are no good cat mentors around at the moment, now that they are needed the most.. typical.
The big dork has been trained not to snap at anything.
A jaw that big can do some damage.
I don't know if it is just this dog,
but he is completely loyal to me,
When I call, he comes right away, running.
When I tell him to sit, he sits.
I found it amazing how easy he was to train,
and how he obeys immediately.
If he thinks I am mad him, he trembles like a chihuahua
and wants to get in my lap.
This is my killer dog.
He is kind of nervous when people come to the house.
That's what worries me.
If I take him somewhere, he is great, polite,
friendly, with no nervousness, nor any sign of aggression.
If someone comes to the house, he will stand behind the poodle, and let her bark, but he is nervous, and though he is not threatening, I believe if someone appeared to
threatening to his family, he could do some damage.
Other than that, he is silly, and awesome.
He is a house dog, but I live in the boonies, and he
can run. He has picked up the little poodle's
behaviors, and it is hilarious to see him sitting on his haunches, begging like the poodle. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 204551
Fantastic story, I know how proud you must feel for your great animals and all the fun you have with them! How does your big boy react to strangers when the Poodle is not around?
Your little girl will be fine, as long as you dominate her
while she is small, like picking her up until you can't
pick her up anymore. That gives her the physical contact she wants. Give her a lot of hugs, and I mean tight ones.
She'll be fine.
Oh, and if she chews shoes,
hang one around her neck for a couple of days.
She'll never touch another one. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 204551
Interesting about the shoes... yes she loves shoes, spreads them all over the house. Our solution is simply to take possession of our shoes and locking them in. She is never allowed to play with any of our shoes, yet she takes every opportunity... too cute now but later... your trick may be a great idea worth trying!
She gets lots of hugs and love, and if something feels threatening for her we take her up before introducing whatever it is to her; other dogs and people. She is not afraid of people although a little suspicious at times, other dogs can be a bit scary at first but after a gentle introduction by us she can play happily with them. Small adult dogs, other big puppies and youngsters, no problems.
Sometimes the play seems rather rough to us but we are always there if she feels she needs protection. She even attempts to dominate some smaller timid adult dogs... without success of course. Important lessons for her I believe but we have to keep an eye on that later on.
She is very courageous for such a little puppie, also very gentle in her play unless things are getting too rough. Either she gives and whines or shows that enough is enough by growling, snapping her jaws and showing teeth. Ten seconds later she wants a new round with her tail wagging...
A good thing is that she trusts not only her "pack" (us) to give her protection if needed, she trusts also people she knows we trust, like friends and relatives. I should say that *I think* it is a good thing but this is definitely not something that Ed Frawley would approve of... not even to play with other dogs as I understand it. But if our dog is happy, we are happy. |
| Leo****
User ID: 89830
7/24/2008 4:13 PM
| | Re: Opinions on teaching "killer doggies" how to behave? | Quote |
There have been some great input on the "alpha roll". I'm not sure about that one, never used it to discipline her.
However, I have observed my puppy goes belly up when she wants to "play rough" with me. I definitely interpret it as an invitation to play, no question about it. I observed she "alpha rolls" herself also to invite other dogs to play with her if they are reluctant or slow.
Maybe it just means she shows trust and/or is confident that she will have a great time baiting like this. She really enjoys playing I should add, and she has no problems "losing" the "fights". All she wants is for the plays to start, then continue until she becomes tired of it (which takes quite a while...)
----
Edit: this evening we discussed the biting and nipping issues. While I think it is fun and think it is good for her to learn exactly how hard she can bite before it hurts, it turned out that my own treshold is not acceptable for anyone else in the family, they think it is a nuisance.
It is too much to ask of a Rottweiler pup that it is ok to bite me but no others in the family. So we decided the nipping behavior against the family members had to go.
Believe it or not but this wonderful doggie got the message almost instantly. We decided that my wife, not I, should teach her that by just leaving her after she nipped her the next time during play, no matter how softly.
The dog came after her, following her steps for like ten minutes without getting any attention at all after the "bite", she was totally treated like air. Damned hard I must say but it is doable...
Then the puppie literally went belly up, inviting her to play like before. Wifey played with her again - *no* nipping at all this time! What can you say folks... Now I just have to reinforce this also when she plays with me... it is hard but I'm sure I can do it.
I should add that no animals were harmed during the exercise, afterwards the little doggie had a good nap at our feet feeling extremely loved and satisfied. A very vivid REM sleep resulted from this day, meeting all those dogs and relatives and learning not to bite the hand that feeds her... :) |
| Leo****
User ID: 89830
7/24/2008 8:35 PM
| | Re: Opinions on teaching "killer doggies" how to behave? | Quote |
...
NEVER UNDERESTIMATE THE POWER OF WITHOLDING AFFECTION (for short periods, 1/2 to a full day).
... Quoting: Anonymous Coward 471957
This suddenly makes great sense to us! But 1/2 to full day... this was not necessary in our case. More like 10 - 15 minutes of ignorance for a little pup is enough to modify behavior.
/L |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 432406
7/24/2008 8:55 PM | | Re: Opinions on teaching "killer doggies" how to behave? | Quote |
you shouldnt really ever let her think its ok to bite anyone(even you), when she is older shell have someone walking on stumps...
puppy time is learning time, teach her its not ok to bite,
thats why most young males get dogs and they get viscous, because its all fun and cute to play nippy bitey as puppies then all the sudden you have a 100 lb year old "puppy" who still thinks its a game to bite humans... not good at all
playing tug and stuff is fine but really you want to win in the end so you remain dominant,
also when the pup plays and rolls to give its belly, that is good, it is showing itself to be submissive/comfortable, this is the right state of mind for your dog, |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 432406
7/24/2008 8:58 PM | | Re: Opinions on teaching "killer doggies" how to behave? | Quote |
...
NEVER UNDERESTIMATE THE POWER OF WITHOLDING AFFECTION (for short periods, 1/2 to a full day).
...
This suddenly makes great sense to us! But 1/2 to full day... this was not necessary in our case. More like 10 - 15 minutes of ignorance for a little pup is enough to modify behavior.
/L Quoting: Leo****
absolutely, a pups attention span is very limited, after a little bit it would forget why you dont like it anymore. as an adult you may wnt to cage/ignore/scold for an afternoon for a bad deed |
| Omega 
Total Unequivocal Bad Fuckin' News
User ID: 376763
7/24/2008 9:01 PM
 | | Re: Opinions on teaching "killer doggies" how to behave? | Quote |
Be the absolute Alpha, and socialize the hell outta them, and you will have a happy dog that can take care of business if needed....
Yahoo IM omega375hh |
| Leo****
User ID: 89830
7/24/2008 9:07 PM
| | Re: Opinions on teaching "killer doggies" how to behave? | Quote |
you shouldnt really ever let her think its ok to bite anyone(even you), when she is older shell have someone walking on stumps...
puppy time is learning time, teach her its not ok to bite,
thats why most young males get dogs and they get viscous, because its all fun and cute to play nippy bitey as puppies then all the sudden you have a 100 lb year old "puppy" who still thinks its a game to bite humans... not good at all
playing tug and stuff is fine but really you want to win in the end so you remain dominant,
also when the pup plays and rolls to give its belly, that is good, it is showing itself to be submissive/comfortable, this is the right state of mind for your dog, Quoting: Anonymous Coward 432406
Yes, I'm totally with you now with the biting stuff. I thought it was cute and maybe also good for her to use me as a "biting measuring scale" but I now believe I was wrong.
We were able to correct my mistake very quickly, luckily. We brought her home this Sunday and try to learn as fast as possible.
She seems to be very comfortable with her new pack and we show lots of love to her! Her "belly up" invitations to play and cuddling cannot be mistaken, she feels like a queen I'm sure!
/L |
| Omega
Total Unequivocal Bad Fuckin' News
User ID: 376763
7/24/2008 9:12 PM
| | Re: Opinions on teaching "killer doggies" how to behave? | Quote |
you shouldnt really ever let her think its ok to bite anyone(even you), when she is older shell have someone walking on stumps...
puppy time is learning time, teach her its not ok to bite,
thats why most young males get dogs and they get viscous, because its all fun and cute to play nippy bitey as puppies then all the sudden you have a 100 lb year old "puppy" who still thinks its a game to bite humans... not good at all
playing tug and stuff is fine but really you want to win in the end so you remain dominant,
also when the pup plays and rolls to give its belly, that is good, it is showing itself to be submissive/comfortable, this is the right state of mind for your dog,
Yes, I'm totally with you now with the biting stuff. I thought it was cute and maybe also good for her to use me as a "biting measuring scale" but I now believe I was wrong.
We were able to correct my mistake very quickly, luckily. We brought her home this Sunday and try to learn as fast as possible.
She seems to be very comfortable with her new pack and we show lots of love to her! Her "belly up" invitations to play and cuddling cannot be mistaken, she feels like a queen I'm sure!
/L Quoting: Leo****
Never let your dog put it's teeth on ya-at all....
Usually aggressive dogs will try you when they are young. Wait for the opportunity, when they go for it flip them on their back and choke them till you see the whites of their eyes and they go limp.
That'll learn em'. Guaranteed...
Sounds cruel, but it's not, and my experience is you wont have that problem again....
Yahoo IM omega375hh |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 432406
7/24/2008 9:22 PM | | Re: Opinions on teaching "killer doggies" how to behave? | Quote |
Be the absolute Alpha, and socialize the hell outta them, and you will have a happy dog that can take care of business if needed....
:prncfila: Quoting: Omega
hate to say it omega but that is the cutest freakin picture... |
| Omega
Total Unequivocal Bad Fuckin' News
User ID: 376763
7/24/2008 9:26 PM
| | Re: Opinions on teaching "killer doggies" how to behave? | Quote |
Be the absolute Alpha, and socialize the hell outta them, and you will have a happy dog that can take care of business if needed....
hate to say it omega but that is the cutest freakin picture...
Thank you. But like my ex's she can go zero to bitch in .1 of a second. :>)
Yahoo IM omega375hh |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 432406
7/24/2008 9:26 PM | | Re: Opinions on teaching "killer doggies" how to behave? | Quote |
A good thing is that she trusts not only her "pack" (us) to give her protection if needed, she trusts also people she knows we trust, like friends and relatives. I should say that *I think* it is a good thing but this is definitely not something that Ed Frawley would approve of... not even to play with other dogs as I understand it. But if our dog is happy, we are happy. Quoting: Leo****
another thing you might wanna try to let her meet all your friends if you can, at about 2 yrs she may start to become more protective and start to be leery of new people. |
| Leo****
User ID: 89830
7/24/2008 9:28 PM
| | Re: Opinions on teaching "killer doggies" how to behave? | Quote |
Be the absolute Alpha, and socialize the hell outta them, and you will have a happy dog that can take care of business if needed....
Most definitely. I'll protect her from anything and she is getting loads of social input that she handles admirably I must say. After what I saw today when she socialized and played with dogs of our relatives, and the actual relatives themselves, I'm convinced that it is a very, very good thing if not vital to a healthy dog.
My fears that it could be a traumatic experience for her turned out to be totally unfounded, she totally loved it.
Great pic of your dog BTW! Looks extremely powerful and happy!
I'm a slow learner but I'm trying...
The "alpha roll"... controversial but quite natural after all. Without thinking about it I used it today to teach a big female youngster that this is my pup and I decide if she could play with her or not. Too bad it was necessary but it was. I did not choke her though, not necessary at all.
She behaved fine after our little chit chat and the owner didn't mind (why should she). I'm a stand-in for my pup's mother right now, simple as that.
In general though, I hope noone has to teach my dog lessons like that later on.
/L |
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