Opinions on teaching "killer doggies" how to behave?

don't feed pedigree, it's crap... anything you get at petsmart etc is garbage.

get a good food like canidae or better yet evo red

feed 3x/day one cup per feeding. do not feed more than that

don't feed pedigree, it's crap... anything you get at petsmart etc is garbage.

get a good food like canidae or better yet evo red

feed 3x/day one cup per feeding. do not feed more than that


Why is pedigree crap? It would be valuable to know the reason. Intuitively though, we feel that we have to check up on this. It doesn't "feel right" somehow. For one thing, she doesn't seem to be too fond of eating it. Almost anything else, no problems, just not this main food we serve. Even broccoli, yummi... what gives?

AC 473365, you really got me thinking here. As human, I can't help observing that this food smells like shit. You immediately know when someone left the dog food bag open.

Whatever it means. Maybe it doesn't mean a thing considering what she digs up and hauls out of the bushes when left unattended for a minute in the garden. The most disgusting so far was a half-rotten rabbit corpse that she refused to let go of...

I will definitely look into this. Giving her a varied diet based on what we eat ourselves is perhaps not a bad idea at all, checking that she get what she needs of course.

Thanks again for your valuable input!

.. always always make the dog wait till you are done eating before giving scraps.
begging = no scraps for puppy tonight

mine generally get scraps most nights and they do not beg at all

I like wolves. Which animals kill by their nature.

Are dogs true to their nature, or is this a question of nurture and, perhaps, abuse? Or maybe puppy dog thinks he's a big, bad wulf... or wants to become one?

At any rate, could this be achieved by such animals through training or are they forever denied the Domain of The Wolf, no matter how much they aspire?

Etc.

SHh!

ps: be careful. maybe that's not really a dog, but a demonic hellhound in disguise as a minor entity that can fit into a dog.

Rate Your Dog Food

How to grade your dog's food: Start with a grade of 100:

1) For every listing of "by-product", subtract 10 points

2) For every non-specific animal source ("meat" or "poultry", meat, meal Or fat) reference, subtract 10 points

3) If the food contains BHA, BHT, or ethoxyquin, subtract 10 points

4) For every grain "mill run" or non-specific grain source,subtract 5 points

5) If the same grain ingredient is used 2 or more times in the first Five ingredients (I.e. "ground brown rice", "brewer's rice", "rice Flour" are all the same grain), subtract 5 points

6) If the protein sources are not meat meal and there are less than 2 Meats in the top 3 ingredients, subtract 3 points

7) If it contains any artificial colorants, subtract 3 points

8 ) If it contains ground corn or whole grain corn, subtract 3 points

9) If corn is listed in the top 5 ingredients, subtract 2 more points

10) If the food contains any animal fat other than fish oil,subtract 2 Points

11) If lamb is the only animal protein source (unless your dog is Allergic to other protein sources), subtract 2 points

12) If it contains soy or soybeans, subtract 2 points

13) If it contains wheat (unless you know that your dog isn't allergic to wheat), subtract 2 points

14) If it contains beef (unless you know that your dog isn't allergic to beef), subtract 1 point

15) If it contains salt, subtract 1 point

Extra Credit:

1) If any of the meat sources are organic, add 5 points

2) If the food is endorsed by any major breed group or nutritionist, add 5 points

3) If the food is baked not extruded, add 5 points

4) If the food contains probiotics, add 3 points

5) If the food contains fruit, add 3 points

6) If the food contains vegetables (NOT corn or other grains), add 3 points

7) If the animal sources are hormone-free and antibiotic-free, add 2 points

8 ) If the food contains barley, add 2 points

9) If the food contains flax seed oil (not just the seeds), add 2 points

10) If the food contains oats or oatmeal, add 1 point

11) If the food contains sunflower oil, add 1 point

12) For every different specific animal protein source (other than the First one; count "chicken" and "chicken meal" as only one protein source, but "chicken" and "" as 2 different sources), add 1 point

13) If it contains glucosamine and chondroitin, add 1 point

14) If the vegetables have been tested for pesticides and are Pesticide-free, add 1 point

94-100+ = A 86-93 = B 78-85 = C 70-77 = D 69 = F

Here are some foods that have already been scored. Dog Food scores:

> Authority Harvest Baked / Score 116 A+

> Bil-Jac Select / Score 68 F

> Canidae / Score 112 A+

> Chicken Soup Senior / Score 115 A+

> Diamond Maintenance / Score 64 F

> Diamond Lamb Meal & Rice / Score 92 B

> Diamond Large Breed 60+ Formula / Score 99 A

> Dick Van Patten's Natural Balance Ultra Premium / Score 122 A+

> Dick Van Patten's Duck and Potato / Score 106 A+

> Foundations / Score 106 A+

> Hund-n-Flocken Adult Dog (lamb) by Solid Gold / Score 93 B

> Iams Lamb Meal & Rice Formula Premium / Score 73 D

> Innova Dog / Score 114 A+

> Innova Evo / Score 114 A+

> Kirkland Signature Chicken, Rice, and Vegetables / Score 110 A+

> Nutrisource Lamb and Rice / Score 87 B

> Nutro Natural Choice Large Breed Puppy / Score 87 B

> Pet Gold Adult with Lamb & Rice / Score 23 F

> ProPlan Natural Turkey & Barley / Score 103 A+

> Purina Benful / Score 17 F

> Purina Dog / Score 62 F

> Purina Come-n-Get It / Score 16 F

> Royal Canin Bulldog / Score 100 A+

> Royal Canin Natural Blend Adult / Score 106 A+

> Sensible Choice Chicken and Rice / Score 97 A

> Science Diet Advanced Protein Senior 7+ / Score 63 F

> Science Diet for Large Breed Puppies / Score 69 F

> Wellness Super5 Mix Chicken / Score 110 A+

> Wolfking Adult Dog (bison) by Solid Gold / Score 97 A

I actually had that saved on my HD but a search on "rate your dog food" brings it up on many sites.

[link to www.rotts-n-notts.com]

I feed Canidae, it is pricey for feeding three dogs, but I have always seen an improvement with both dogs and cats when fed the most premium foods.

Rotts have the tendency for having bad gas. Be prepared! I guage the quality of Jewel's foods by the lack of room-clearing flatulence.

Your dog's coat will look much better. Rotts get dandruff if they are fed poor quality food. There is nothing quite as beautiful as a glossy black coat on a healthy dog.

The best you can afford is the best insurance you can get for their health. Pay it in food or pay it in vet bills, I think.

I feed Canidae, it is pricey for feeding three dogs, but I have always seen an improvement with both dogs and cats when fed the most premium foods.

Rotts have the tendency for having bad gas. Be prepared! I guage the quality of Jewel's foods by the lack of room-clearing flatulence.

Your dog's coat will look much better. Rotts get dandruff if they are fed poor quality food. There is nothing quite as beautiful as a glossy black coat on a healthy dog.

The best you can afford is the best insurance you can get for their health. Pay it in food or pay it in vet bills, I think.


That's a very good attitude and I agree totally! I just was not aware of the quality differences in dog food yet, there are so many other things that occupy my mind as I'm trying to learn to become a really good keeper of my dog as quickly as possible. I trusted the breeder on what food the puppy should have and maybe that's a good strategy in the beginning, feeding the same that the dog was used to.

For what it's worth, my pup has an extraordinary fine fur, glossy and beautiful! Maybe we are not that far off the mark after all but as always, eager to learn all there is!

Again...DON'T Feed the pedigree. It's not good food. Just because your breeder fed it, doesn't mean you should.

Is the Puppy papered? What lines is the dog from?

My dog is from Schwaiger Wappen google them...

...

Just one more thing for today as it is approaching bedtime in Sweden:

My -God- how wonderful it is to give the little pup yet another great bear hug before bed time! She receives it with such pleasure that my heart melts, showing her little belly and just wants more and more cuddling! Damned... I had no idea how much I could love a little doggie!

I will hate the time when she is too big for this. Hopefully she never gets too big!

/L

My dog came to me at the age of three, most definitely from a 'back-yard-breeder', with fly-away ears and wavy coat (both faults) but she is a great 'lump', a big goofy, happy, healthy pooch who will hide in the other room and talk to me when it is time for dinner, (she is doing this right now!) do rodeo spins one way and then spin the other way to un-dizzy herself, much to our delight. No papers, no pedigree, no breeding--just a loving pet.

...

In Europe they do not allow docking of tails, am I correct?

I rather prefer the look of docked tails on some breeds. I would imagine the tail on a Rott is quite a table-sweeper!

...

The alpha roll was repopularized in the book 'How to Be Your Dog's Best Friend' by the Monks of New Skete which came out in the late 70's or early 80's. Before that it faded in and out of popularity and use.

I'm told that in the latest edition of this book the alpha roll is no longer included as a training tool.

To perform the roll you're supposed to grab the dog by the excess skin around his neck, force him backwards into a sit and then roll him to one side. Some trainers advocate rolling him all the way onto his back. The idea is that you're simulating something that dogs do to one another when the dominant dog is displaying his dominance to the submissive dog.

But it's just not so. If you watch some dogs at play, for example at a dog park or the zoo, or watch the Discovery Channel. Use a Video Camera (or record the TV) so you can play it back several times. You'll see what at first looks like an alpha roll but when you examine if carefully it's not even close. When dogs do this, the dominant dog doesn't force the submissive dog to do anything. It's the submissive dog who's doing all the work. The dominant dog puts his foot up on the submissive dog's shoulder or back and the submissive dog rolls himself under the dominant dog.

And so when you do the alpha roll thing you're doing something that's completely foreign to the dog, rather than something he's familiar with. You're showing him that you're bigger and stronger than him, but he already knows that. It's the action of a bully, not a fair and just leader.

Real dogs in the real world don't do anything like this. When a submissive dog rolls himself under the dominant dog it's because he's showing submission. This isn't a case of the dominant dog showing dominance. He's already done that merely by placing his foot on the other dog's shoulder or back and that's the reason that the submissive dog has gone down.

And so the alpha roll as dogs do it, isn't a display of dominance; it's one of submission, where the submissive dog is doing the work. It starts with the dominant dog putting a foot up but the rolling portion, the part that the alpha roll is simulating is done by the submissive dog. The alpha dog is only present by virtue of his personality, he's not rolling the other dog at all.

If you do this to the right dog (wrong dog) he'll eat you for your trouble. And since the closest thing to bite is your face, that's where you'll get it. It's hard to give an out command when the dog is holding you by the face!

For over 20 years I've been training some of the most dominant, most aggressive, most fearless dogs on the planet. I've never found the alpha roll necessary. I've done it once or twice when I was new and someone told me that I should. It didn't have the desired effect and after thinking about it and talking about it to the right folks, I discarded it.

Dogs almost NEVER submissively pee to other dogs, especially members of their own pack. That's reserved almost exclusively for their humans who, without realizing it put the dog into an overly submissive position and the dog has no choice. Some dogs extremely low in the pack pecking order, the omega dog may show submissive urination every time that a dominant dog (that's every other dog in the pack) approaches, but that's still a very rare display.

Your height already provides a cue to the dog that you're dominant. There are some trainers who will tell you to never let your dog stand over you but I think that you need to permit this once in a while. Some trainers tell you to NEVER allow it. But if you think about what I do and how it gets done, training and working police service dogs, you'll realize that it's good to, once in a while get on the ground with your dog and play with him as dogs play together.

Let me paint a picture for you. Imagine the type of handler who's been trained that he has to alpha roll his dog once a week to remain the alpha. Also imagine that he's been trained never to let his dog be on top of him. The handler gets into a fight, and like most fights it winds up on the ground. He calls his dog for assistance and as the dog runs to the scene he sees the 'alpha dog' on the ground, someplace he's never seen him. He remembers that this 'alpha dog' has been rolling him every week since they've been together and maintaining his alpha position with brute force. He sees this alpha dog fighting with a complete stranger, someone who's never hurt him or done anything to him before. Do you think it's possible that he'll think that NOW is a good time to rise to the top of the pack? Could be!

Wouldn't it be better if that dog had been lead by a fair and just pack leader who didn't use physical force to maintain his position? Since the #2 dog has rights that the #3 or #4 doesn't, wouldn't it be better if the dog thought of himself as the #2 dog in the pack not just as any subordinate animal.

If you alpha roll your dog consistently he'll become afraid of you. That's not a good relationship, particularly if you want the dog to work protection for you. He'll do it but you might find him "attached" to you occasionally. I think that the best relationship between the handler and the dog is one of mutual trust and respect. A dog that's rolled won't trust the handler, he'll fear him. This may not show up in the form of the dog cowering from the handler, except in extreme circumstances. But there other, much more subtle ways it shows up.

Want to be an Alpha? Begin by acting like one. Stand up tall and act like a leader. Notice that most dogs are submissive to a good trainer just by him walking onto the field. That's because he knows how to stand, carry himself and talk as a leader. He hasn't alpha rolled your dog. He hasn't kicked your dog's butt, but your dog knows, at a glance, who the alpha is. Use a normal voice. When adult dogs play with other adult dogs they use a certain tone of voice (bark). When puppies play with adults or other puppies pitched they use a high pitched yip. If you use a high pitched voice when playing with or praising your adult dog how do you think he thinks of you? As a mature adult capable of leading him? Or as an immature pack member? Now I'm not saying that he'll immediately become alpha if you praise or talk to him in a high pitched voice but I am saying that you're sending a mixed message to him. One that can put some doubts in his mind as to your exact position in the pack.

Being accepted as the alpha doesn't mean that you're the biggest, baddest one in the pack. Anyone who teaches that really doesn't understand what it means to be alpha. In human packs, without the politics, often it's NOT the biggest or strongest one who leads. It's the one who exhibits "leadership qualities." In dog packs it's the same way.

Another part of being alpha has to do with food. In the wild the alpha leads the hunt. He decides which animal the pack will kill and when the eating will begin. Generally you provide the food for your dog so that helps him think of you as the alpha. I suggest that when you get a new dog you spend a couple of weeks hand feeding him. That establishes, even more than just putting down a food bowl, that you're providing his food. Don't let him crowd in and 'demand' the food. Make him stay at a respectful distance and wait for you to give it to him, one handful at a time.

Another way to be fair and just is to be fair with your correction level. The Ecollar is perfect for this because it allows you to dial in exactly the level of correction that your dog needs. Not too high and not too low. It's difficult for the average handler to consistently give the exact level of correction that a dog needs with a leash and conventional training collar.

Play is another way to get this but not the form of play that has the handler throwing a ball for his dog. Watch the Discovery Channel or spend a few hours at the zoo watching wild dogs play. They run, they bump shoulders, they throw hips into one another. Their interaction is quite physical.

Another way to establish dominance and one of my favorites is through yielding. I stole the concept from someone who stole it from horse trainers. Yielding is based on the idea that a submissive animal will move out of the way of a dominant animal. Almost ritualistically the dominant animal will force the submissive animal to give way, even if he doesn't need to. It's just a reminder.

To do this have the dog on leash and start walking into him. Going head to head is probably best, at first. Don't give any commands, just head towards him. When you get real close start quietly saying "move, move, move," Don't kick him and don't bump into him unless it's absolutely necessary. What you are trying to do is to force him to move by the power of your personality.

As soon as he does move, step back and praise him lightly. Not enough to break his concentration, but enough so that he knows he got something right. You should see a relaxation of tension in the dog's body. Think of your forward motion as applying pressure. Pressure that the dog can relieve by moving away. At first just one or two steps will relieve the pressure, but as you progress he has to move more to gain relief.

As the training progresses you can approach from off to one side, then directly to one side, then from the rear quarter and finally from the rear. When you start this have him move several times in a row. Once he's caught on you can go to about ten times a day.

This is so subtle that many people believe that it won't have any affect on the dog, particularly one who's very dominant. But it will have more and better effect than a dozen alpha rolls. And it will establish your position with VERY little chance of a handler challenge or an attack on the handler.

If you're going to do an alpha roll you'd better pick the dog you do this on carefully and you'd better make sure that you can kick his ass. You'd also better be ready for a trip to the ER, because sooner or later you're going to miss.

It's really too bad that some people are still caught up in using force all the time for all of their training. It's not necessary. It's hard on the dogs, and it's hard on the handler. AND most importantly it doesn't give a good a working relationship with the dog as more subtle, but still effective methods.