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| | Page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 | IS 'JESUS CHRIST' COMING BACK AS A MAN OR A CHILD?
| GDW
User ID: 472154
7/23/2008 3:46 AM
Report abusive post | IS 'JESUS CHRIST' COMING BACK AS A MAN OR A CHILD?
| Quote |
Either Revelation 12 is 'retrospective prophecy' or the Second coming of Christ is a sham.
Revelation 12 clearly states that a child will be born...yet Christians expect a 'second coming' of 'Jesus Christ' the man?!?!?
Which is it? |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 458269
7/23/2008 4:11 AM | | Re: IS 'JESUS CHRIST' COMING BACK AS A MAN OR A CHILD? | Quote |
Hey GDW, sorry off topic. Did you see the painting unveiled on the front page of the SMH Sat before last? It depicted Mary and child as being little Aussies. I think it was called Mary of the Southern Cross - or something similar. I just thought you might be interested. |
| mbeccu
User ID: 472174
7/23/2008 4:21 AM | | Re: IS 'JESUS CHRIST' COMING BACK AS A MAN OR A CHILD? | Quote |
he is returning once again as a child
he was born in India in 1970 and now lives in London
among the pakistany community here.
Benjamin Creme is his emissary and you may want to find out by googling "maitreya" the christ. also google benjamin creme , interesting story if you don't know already.
i remember years ago they published newspaper ads in all the newspapers in the major cities in the world advising of an imminent manifestation of christ contacting all mankind telepathically, but it never happened.
in any case, jesus will have to return as a child.
this method is the only foolproof way
i mean, like the last time, 2000 years ago, we were told that the spirit impregnated a virgin ( no, it wasn't joseph's baby of course) and baby jesus was born.
this is a very convenient way of coming into the world because nobody can prove or disprove it.
nobody saw god having sex with mary and baby jesus was conveniently kept out of sight until he was 30 years old.
if, on the other hand, jesus would have come into the world as a fully grown 30yo man, descending from the heavens, then everyone would have seen him coming down and would have believed.
butobviously god's intention was not to reveal himself to the world for all to see, no, he had to create a most confusing and unbelievable story so that only the meek and the poor in spirit could believe and so that the wise be confounded.
brilliant!
amen? amen! |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 472181
7/23/2008 4:32 AM | | Re: IS 'JESUS CHRIST' COMING BACK AS A MAN OR A CHILD? | Quote |
I was born an infant, but now I'm 30 odd. Of course I had to be reborn in human form. I have to experience life as an ordinary person before deciding who lives and who meets their fate.
 |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 454457
7/23/2008 5:02 AM | | Re: IS 'JESUS CHRIST' COMING BACK AS A MAN OR A CHILD? | Quote |
a child will be born into sin yet destined for christ. They will suffer the sins of the father and be the son of man. That person will carry the burden of the fallen through to maturity and surrender on the cross of light for the salvation of humanity. |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 247705
7/23/2008 5:08 AM | | Re: IS 'JESUS CHRIST' COMING BACK AS A MAN OR A CHILD? | Quote |
Please do not confuse Imam Mahdi with Hadhrat Isa (Jesus) Alayhis Salaam. They are two different persons, and both will come during the last days. According to Hadeeth, Imam Mahdi will appear first, and Hadhrat Isa (A.S.) will appear during Imam Mahdi's lifetime. Furthermore, only Hadhrat Isa (A.S.) will be able to kill Dajjal (the "anti-Christ").
The term "MAHDI" is a title meaning "The Guided one".
Hadhrat Abdullah bin Mas'ood (R.A.) says that Rasulullah (Sallallahu Alayhi Wasallam) said, "This world will not come to an end until one person from my progeny does not rule over the Arabs, and his name will be the same as my name." (Tirmidhi)
Hadhrat Ali (R.A.) narrates that Rasulullah (Sallallahu Alayhi Wasallam) said, "Even if only a day remains for Qiyamah to come, yet Allah will surely send a man from my family who will fill this world with such justice and fairness, just as it initally was filled with oppression." (Abu Dawood)
His Features
Hadhrat Abu Saeed Khudri (R.A.) relates that Rasulullah (Sallallahu Alayhi Wasallam) said, "Al Mahdi will be from my progeny. His forehead will be broad and his nose will be high. He will fill the world with justice and fairness at a time when the world will be filled with oppression. He will rule for seven years."
Other ahadeeth inform us that:
* He will be tall
* He will be fair complexioned
* His facial features will be similar to those of Rasulullah (Sallallahu Alayhi Wasallam)
* His character will be exactly like that of Rasulullah (Sallallahu Alayhi Wasallam)
* His father's name will be Abdullah
* His mother's name will be Aamina
* He will speak with a slight stutter and occasionally this stutter will frustrate him causing him to hit his hand upon his thigh.
* His age at the time of his emergence will be forty years
* He will receive Knowledge from Allah.
His Emergence and Rule
Hadhrat Umme Salmah (R.A.) narrates that Rasulullah (Sallallahu Alayhi Wasallam) said, " After the death of a Ruler there will be some dispute between the people. At that time a citizen of Madina will flee (from Madinah) and go to Makkah. While in Makkah, certain people will approach him between Hajrul Aswad and Maqaame Ibraheem, and forcefully pledge their allegiance to him.
Thereafter a huge army will proceed from Syria to attack him but when they will be at Baida, which is between Makkah and Madina, they will be swallowed into the ground.
On seeing this, the Abdaals of Shaam as well as large numbers of people from Iraq will come to him and pledge their allegiance to him. Then a person from the Quraish, whose uncle will be from the Bani Kalb tribe will send an army to attack him, only to be overpowered, by the will of Allah. This (defeated) army will be that of the Bani Kalb. Unfortunate indeed is he who does not receive a share from the booty of the Kalb. This person (Imam Mahdi) will distribute the spoils of war after the battle. He will lead the people according to the Sunnat and during his reign Islam will spread throughout the world. He will remain till seven years (since his emergence). He will pass away and the Muslims will perform his Janazah salaat." (Abu Dawood)
According to a Hadeeth, Sayyidena Eesa (A.S.) will lead the Janaazah of Imam Mahdi (A.S.).
While the people will be pledging their allegiance to Imaam Mahdi, a voice from the unseen will call out:
"This is the representative of Allah,
The Mahdi, listen to him and obey him"
This announcement which will be heard by all those present will establish his authenticity. Another sign which will indicate the authenticity of Imaam Mahdi wil be that in the Ramadhaan prior to his emergence an eclipse of the sun and moon will occur.
Hadhrat Abu Umamah (R.A.) says that Rasulullah (Sallallahu Alayhi Wasallam) said: "There will be four peace agreements between you and the Romans. The fourth agreement will be mediated through a person who will be from the progeny of Hadhrat Haroon (A.S.) and will be upheld for seven years."
The people asked: "O Rasulullah (Sallallahu Alayhi Wasallam), who will be the Imaam of the people at the time?"
Rasulullah (Sallallahu Alayhi Wasallam) said: "He will be from my progeny and will be forty years of age. His face will shine like a star and he will have a black spot on his left cheek. He will don two "Qutwaani" cloaks and will appear exactly as a person from the Bani Israeel..." (Tabrani)
According to hadith narrated by Abu Saeed Khudri (R.A.) Rasulullah (Sallallahu Alayhi Wasallam) said: "...(regarding the rule of Imaam Mahdi) the skies will rain down in abundance and the earth will yield forth its crop in abundance, and those alive will desire that those who have already passed away should have been alive to enjoy this prosperity..."
Hadhrat Buraidah (R.A.) says that Rasulullah (Sallallahu Alayhi Wasallam) said: "There will be many armies after me. You must join that army which will come from Khurasaan." (Ibn Adi)
Abu Hurairah (R.A.) says that Rasulullah (Sallallahu Alayhi Wasallam) said: "(Armies carrying) black flags will come from Khurasaan. No power will be able to stop them and they will finally reach Eela (Baitul Maqdas) where they will erect their flags."
from: "Signs of Qiyamah"
by Mohammed Ali Ibn Zubair Ali
More Hadeeth (with references) (contributed by Bradley Bilal).
1) The Prophet (PBUH and HF) said: "Even if the entire duration of the world's existence has already been exhausted and only one day is left (before the day of judgment), Allah will expand that day to such a length of time, as to accommodate the kingdom of a person from my Ahlul-Bayt who will be called by my name. He will fill out the earth with peace and justice as it will have been full of injustice and tyranny (by then)."
References:
Sahih al-Tirmidhi, v2, p86, v9, pp 74-75
Sunan Abu Dawud, v2, p7
Musnad Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, v1, pp 84,376; V3, p63
2) The Prophet (PBUH and HF) said: "al-Mahdi is one of us, the members of the household (Ahlul-Bayt)."
Reference: Sunan Ibn Majah, v2, Tradition #4085
3) The Prophet (PBUH and HF) said: The Mahdi will be of my family, of the descendants of Fatimah (the daughter of the Prophet (PBUH)).
References:
Sunan Abu Dawud, English version, Ch. 36, Tradition #4271 (narrated by Umm Salama, the wife of the Prophet)
Sunan Ibn Majah, v2, Tradition #4086
4) The Prophet (PBUH and HF) said: "We (I and my family) are members of a household that Allah (SWT) has chosen for them the life of the Hereafter over the life of this world; and the members of my household (Ahlul-Bayt) shall suffer a great affliction and they shall be forcefully expelled from their homes after my death; then there will come people from the East carrying black flags, and they will ask for some good to be given to them, but they shall be refused service; as such, they will wage war and emerge victorious, and will be offered that which they desired in the first place, but they will refuse to accept it till they pass it to a man from my family (Ahlul-Bayt) appears to fill the Earth with justice as it has been filled with corruption. So whoever reaches that (time) ought to come to them even if crawling on the ice/snow since among them is the Vice-regent of Allah (Khalifatullah) al-Mahdi."
References:
Sunan Ibn Majah, v2, Tradition #4082,
The History Tabari
al-Sawa'iq al-Muhriqah, by Ibn Hajar, Ch. 11, section 1, pp 250-251
5) Abu Nadra reported: We were with the company of Jabir Ibn Abdillah... Jabir Ibn Abdillah kept quite for a while and then reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) having said: "There would be a Caliph in the last (period) of my Ummah who would freely give handfuls of wealth to the people without counting it." I said to Abu Nadra and Abu al-Ala: Do you mean Umar Ibn Abd al-Aziz? They said: NO, (he would be Imam Mahdi).
References:
Sahih Muslim, English version, v4, chapter MCCV, p1508, Tradition #6961
Sahih Muslim, Arabic version, Kitab al-Fitan, v4, p2234, Tradition #67
6) "al-Mahdi is from our Ahlul-Bayt, no doubt Allah will enforce his appearance within a night (i.e., his coming is very unpredictable and is very sudden)."
References: Sunan Ibn Majah, v2, p269 |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 247705
7/23/2008 5:12 AM | | Re: IS 'JESUS CHRIST' COMING BACK AS A MAN OR A CHILD? | Quote |
The advent of the promised Mahdi
and
the lunar and solar eclipses
culled from the essay written by
Saleh Muhammad Alladin
(Professor of Astronomy, Osmania University, Hyderabad, India)
The coming of a great Divine Reformer in the Latter Days has been predicted in the holy scriptures of various religions. I propose to discuss a very remarkable prophecy made by our lord and master, the Holy Prophet Muhammad, peace and blessings of Allah be upon him, which helps a seeker after truth in recognizing him. According to this prophecy:
lunar and solar eclipses on the specified dates of the month of Ramazan would serve as Signs of his advent.
Hazrat Ali bin Umar Albaghdadi Ad-Darqutni, an eminent authority on Hadees, who lived from 918 to 995 of Christian Era (306 to 385 Hijri), had recorded of the following Hadees narrated by Hazrat Imam Baqar Muhammad bin Ali, son of Hazrat Imam Zainul Abedeen (may Allah have mercy on them):
"For Our Mahdi there are two Signs which have never appeared before since the creation of the heavens and the earth, namely, the moon will be eclipsed on the first night in Ramazan (i.e. on the first of the nights on which a lunar eclipse can occur) and the sun will be eclipsed on the middle day (i.e.; on the middle one of the days on which a solar eclipse can occur), and these Signs have not appeared since God created the heavens and the earth."
( Sunan Darqutni, kitabul eidain, chapter: salat-ul-kasoof-ul khasoof wa haitahuma)
These Signs are mentioned in the collections of Hadees of both Sunni and Shia sects. Eminent Muslim scholars have been quoting these Signs in their books. This prophecy is recorded in several sacred books, some of them are mentioned below.
1. Fatawa Hadisiya by Allama Sheikh Ahmad Shahabuddin Ibn Hijrul Haismi.
2. Ikmal-ud-din
3. Beharul Anwar
4. Hejajul Kirama by Nawab Siddeeq Hassan Khan
5. Maktoobaat-e-Imam Rabbani Mujaddid Alf-e-Sani
6. Qiyamat Nama Farsi by Hazrat Shah Rafeeuddin Muhaddis of Delhi
7. Aqaedul Islam by Maulana Abdul Haq Muhaddis of Delhi
8. Iqtirabus Saa’t by Nawab Sideeq Hassan Khan
9. Ahwalul Akhirat by Hafiz Muhammad of Lakhoke. etc.
The Hadees is strengthened by the fact that the Holy Quran mentions eclipses as important Signs of the approach of Resurrection. The Holy Quran says:
"And the moon is eclipsed. And the sun and the moon are brought together." (Al-Qiyamah 75:9-10)
The root of the prophecy thus lies in the Holy Quran and the Hadees elucidates the verses of the Holy Quran and gives valuable details.
In the New Testament, Jesus, peace be on him, narrating the Signs of his second coming said:
"Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light." (Matthew 24:29)
Mahatma Surdasji has mentioned the prophecy that when Kalki Autar would appear, the moon and the sun would be eclipsed. He wrote:
"Both the moon and the sun will be eclipsed and there will be much violence and death."
In the holy book of the Sikhs,Sri Guru Garanth Sahib, it is written:
"When Maharaj will come as Nahkalank, the sun and the moon will be his helpers."
In short, books of other religions also mention of the Signs of the sun and the moon. In the Hadees of Darqutni, quoted earlier, much detail is given, which we shall discuss subsequently.
Lunar and Solar eclipses in the light of the laws of nature
Lunar and solar eclipses are phenomena which occur according to the laws of nature. The Holy Quran has repeatedly drawn our attention to natural phenomena. A discussion of the astronomical background is therefore appropriate and relevant. It helps in understanding the Hadees. The earth, the sun and the moon form a system of three bodies. The Holy Quran has referred to this system in a very beautiful way as follows:
"Holy is HE Who created all things in pairs, of what the earth grows and of themselves, and of what they know not. And a Sign for them is the night from which WE strip off the day, and lo ! they are left in darkness. And the sun is moving on to its determined goal. That is the decree of the Almighty, the All-Knowing God. And for the moon WE have appointed stages, till it becomes again like an old dry twig of a palm-tree. It is not for the sun to overtake the moon, nor can the night outstrip the day. All of them float smoothly in an orbit" (Ya Sin 36: 37-41)
Five verses of the Holy Quran have been quoted here. In the first verse a fundamental fact has been mentioned that Almighty God has created all things in pairs. The second verse refers to the night and the day, which arise from the motion of the earth. The third verse refers to the motion of the sun and the fourth refers to the motion of the moon. In the fifth verse, the sun, the moon, the night and the day, are all mentioned together, and attention is drawn to the fact that the movements of the sun and the moon have their limits.
We learn from science that the earth and the moon move around each other and complete a revolution in one month, they form a pair. The earth and the moon jointly move around the sun and complete a revolution in one year. Thus the sun and earth-moon system form another pair. In the solar system there are numerous pairs within pairs. The sun with all its planets and their satellites moves around the center of the Galaxy completing a revolution in about two hundred million years. Like our sun, there are billions of stars in our Galaxy which move around the centerof the Galaxy with different periods. Holy is He Who created all things in pairs.
When the moon in the course of its motion around the earth, comes between the sun and earth in such a way that it prevents the light of the sun from reaching the earth, we have a solar eclipse; and when the earth comes between the sun and the moon in such a way that its shadow falls on the moon, we have a lunar eclipse. In astronomical terminology, we say that a solar eclipse occurs at new moon and a lunar eclipse occurs at full moon. At the time of the new moon, the longitudes of the sun and the moon are the same and the moon is said to be in conjunction. An eclipse does not occur at every new moon and full moon because for the occurrence of an eclipse it is necessary that the sun, the earth and the moon should be aligned. If the earth’s orbit around the sun and the moon’s orbit around the earth, were in the same plane, there would have been alignment twice every month, and hence there would have been one lunar eclipse and one solar eclipse every month. Actually the two orbital planes are inclined to each other by an angle of about five degrees, on account of which the maximum number of eclipses in a solar year does not exceed seven (four or five being solar and three or two being lunar). The minimum number of eclipses which can occur in a year is two, both being solar. For further details, see books on Spherical Astronomy.
The motion of the moon is quite complicated. To a first approximation, the moon moves around the earth in an elliptic orbit, on account of which its distance from the earth and its speed vary within certain limits. When the moon is closest to the earth it is said to be at perigee. The speed of the moon with respect to the earth is greatest when it is at perigee. On account of the gravitational attraction of the sun, the position of the perigee changes in space. Thus sometimes the moon moves faster in the early part of the month and sometimes it moves faster in latter part. Likewise the distance and velocity of the earth-moon pair with respect to the sun also changes within certain limits in accordance with the law of gravitation. As the Holy Quran says:
"The sun and the moon run their courses according to a fixed reckoning" (Al-Rahman 55:6)
The changes in the distances and velocities of the bodies have their effects on the dates on which the eclipses can occur.
Astronomers take the time of conjunction as the beginning of the lunar month. At that time the moon cannot be seen at all. The month of the Islamic Calendar (Hijri) begins with the first sighting of the lunar crescent, i.e.: when the phase of the moon becomes big enough to be visible. An excellent book dealing with the problem of the first visibility of the lunar crescent, has been written by Dr. Muhammad Ilyas. ( A modern Guide to astronomical Calculations of Islamic Calendar, Times & Qibla. Published by Berita Publishing Kuala Lumpur 1984)
If the Hijri Calendar is used, the dates on which a lunar eclipse can occur are 13, 14 and 15; and the dates on which a solar eclipse can occur are 27, 28 and 29. According to the prophecy, the lunar eclipse would occur on the first night and the solar eclipse would occur on the middle day in the month of Ramazan. This fixes the 13th of Ramazan for the lunar eclipse and the 28th of Ramazan for the solar eclipse.
In the Hadees, the word Qamar is used for the moon and not Hilal. The crescent of the first, second and third nights, is called Hilal while Qamar denotes the moon from the fourth night onward. (Aqrabul Mawarid vol. 2) Hence the interpretation that the first night Ramazan implies the 13th of Ramazan and not the first of Ramazan, is also supported by the word Qamar used in the Hadees, thus leaving no ambiguity.
The advent of the Promised Mahdi, peace be on him, and fulfillment of the prophecy
I shall now discuss how the prophecy of the Hadees was fulfilled.
Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad of Qadian, India, peace be on him, was born in the year 1835 of the Christian Era. He was a model of extraordinary righteousness. Profound love for the Holy Prophet, peace and blessings of Allah be upon him, was the salient feature of his personality. He was grieved to see the onslaughts against Islam by its critics and the poor spiritual condition of the Muslims. He dedicated himself to the service of Islam and prayed fervently for the spiritual regeneration of the world. His epoch-making work Braheen-e- Ahmadiyya published in four volumes from 1880 to 1884 is a masterpiece in which are discussed the truth of Islam and the excellence of the Holy Quran and the Holy Prophet, peace and blessings of Allah be upon him.
Hazrat Ahmad, peace be on him, had the privilege of being recipient of Divine revelation from 1876 until 1908 when he passed away. In 1882 he received his first revelation regarding his appointment as Divine Reformer through the following words:
"Allah bless thee O Ahmad. It was not thou who didst throw but it was Allah Who did throw. The Most Gracious One has taught thee the Quran so that thou shouldst warn the people whose ancestors have not been warned and that the way of the guilty ones might become manifest. Proclaim; I have been commissioned and I am the first of the believers." (Braheen-e-Ahmadiyya, vol. 3)
He also received the following revelation:
"Tell them I have with me testimony from Allah, then will you believe? Tell them I have with me testimony from Allah, then will you submit?" (Braheen-e-Ahmadiyya, vol. 3)
In obedience to Divine command he declared that he is the Mujaddid (Reformer) of the 14th century of the Islamic era. Later on the 23rd of March 1889, under Divine command, he took the first oath of allegiance at Ludhiana and thus formed the Ahmadiyya Community. Hazrat Al-Haj Hafiz Maulvi Hakim Nooruddin, .... who later became his First Successor, had the honour to be the first person to take the oath of allegiance. On the same day, forty persons swore allegiance to the Promised Messiah and Mahdi, peace be on him, and solemnly promised that they would give priority to religion over worldly affairs.
Towards the end of 1890 C.E Almighty Allah revealed to him that Prophet Jesus, peace be on him, had died and the prophecy of his second advent was to be fulfilled by a person like Jesus, and that he was the Promised Messiah. Among the revelations, which he received to this effect, was the following:
"The Messiah, son of Mary, prophet of Allah, had died and in his attribute thou hast come in accordance with the promise. And the promise of Allah was bound to be fulfilled." [Tazkirah, revelations of the Promised Messiah, peace be on him]
After receiving this explanation from Almighty God, Hazrat Ahmad, peace be on him, claimed in 1891 to be the promised Messiah and Mahdi whose advent as prophesied by the Holy Prophet, peace and blessings of Allah be upon him. Hazrat Ahmad, peace be on him, also gave arguments in support of his claim and wrote books, Fatah-Islam (Victory of Islam), Tauzih-Maram (Explanation of Objectives) and Izalai-Auham (Removal of Suspicions). He asserted that Almighty God had sent him to give spiritual life to the people. The contemporary theologians rejected his claims and he met a storm of very violent opposition.
In his book Noorul Haq (Light of Truth) Part I, written in Arabic and published in early 1894, Hazrat Ahmad, the Promised Mahdi, peace be on him, made the following humble supplications:
Translation:
"Judge between us and our people with justice for Thou are the Best of those who judge. O God! Please send thy succour for me from the heaven and help Thy servant in the time of adversity" [Roohani Khazain vol. 8, p. 6]
Among the objection raised against him was also the one that the prophecy pertaining to the eclipses of the sun and moon has not been fulfilled. Then Almighty God manifested this heavenly Sign in the year 1311 Hijri (1894 C.E) when the lunar and solar eclipses occurred over Qadian on the specified dates of Ramazan in fulfillment of the grand prophecy of the Holy Prophet, peace and blessings of Allah be upon him. The lunar eclipse occurred after sunset on the 13th of Ramazan (March 21, 1894) and the solar eclipse occurred on Friday, the 28th of Ramazan (April 6, 1894). Apart from the almanacs, there was mention of the eclipses in the Indian newspapers of the time Azad and Civil and Military Gazette. Even now, the dates (of the Christian era) for these eclipses can be confirmed from Oppolzer’s Canon of Eclipses by Prof. T. R Von Oppolzer, Dover Publications New York, 1962. And Nautical Almanac, London of 1894. The calculations based on the position of the moon show that the lunar dates of the eclipses correspond to the 13th and the 28th of Ramazan.
Characteristics of the eclipses of Ramazan 1311 Hijri (March - April 1894)
Soon after the celestial Signs were witnessed, the Promised Messiah and Mahdi, peace be on him, wrote the book Noorul Haq (Light of Truth) Part II, which is devoted to an extremely enlightening discussion of the accurate fulfillment of the splendid prophecy of the Holy Prophet, peace and blessings of Allah be upon him. In this book, he explained in the light of Divine revelation that the true interpretation of the Hadees is that in the time of the Mahdi, the Moon will be eclipsed in the first of the three nights on which a lunar eclipse can occur i.e.; on the 13th of Ramazan, and the sun will be eclipsed on the middle day out of the days on which a solar eclipse can occur, i.e. on the 28th of Ramazan.
The Promised Messiah and Mahdi, peace be on him, drew attention to several properties of the eclipses which make the Signs very impressive. He pointed out that the word first and middle used in the Hadees were fulfilled in two ways, with regard to date as well as with regard to time. Not only did the lunar eclipse occur on the first of the three nights but also it occurred in the beginning of the night in Qadian. The solar eclipse not only occurred on the middle day but also occurred in the forenoon in Qadian. It did not occur early in the morning and it was over before noon. The word ‘nisf’ used in the Hadees also means half. According to Calcutta Standard Time, the lunar eclipse was visible in India in the evening between 7 p.m. and 9:30 p.m. and solar eclipse was visible in India in the forenoon between 9 a.m. and 11 a.m.
Aided by divine revelation, the Promised Messiah and Mahdi, peace be on him elucidated the deeper meaning of the Hadees as follows:
"So the right interpretation and the true meaning of the expression ‘lunar eclipse will occur in the first night of Ramazan’ are that it will occur in the first of the three full-moon nights and you know the expression white nights. In addition to this there is also a hint that when the lunar eclipse occurs in the first full-moon night, it will occur in the beginning of the night and not after a lapse of time as will be clear to an enlightened person. And the lunar eclipse did occur accordingly and many had seen it in this country" [Noorul Haq, Part II]
With regard to the solar eclipse, he stated:
"The saying that the sun will be eclipsed in the middle, implies that the solar eclipse will manifest itself in such a way that it will divide the days of the eclipse into two halves. It will occur in the second day of the eclipse and its time will not exceed the first half of the day because that is the limit of the half. So just as Almighty God ordained that the lunar eclipse should occur in the first night, so also He ordained that the solar eclipse should occur in the eclipse days in the time specified by half. So it happened as predicted. And Almighty God does not reveal His secrets to anyone except to those whom He chooses for the reformation of the world. Hence there is no doubt that this Hadees is from the Messenger of God, peace and blessings of Allah be upon him, who is the best of all messengers." [Nooral Haq Part II]
It may also be noted that both the lunar and solar eclipses were visible from India. A lunar eclipse can be seen from more than half the earth'’s sphere but a solar eclipse is visible from a much smaller area. It often happens that a solar eclipse is only seen from a sparsely populated area or over an ocean. The solar eclipse of April 6, 1894, was visible form a vast area of Asia including India. Professor T. R. Von Oppolzer has given details of the present and future lunar and solar eclipses from 1208 B.C to 2161 C.E in his book Canon of Eclipses. He has shown by means of maps the paths of only the prominent solar eclipses; i.e.; those of annular, annular-total and total categories. The path of the solar eclipse of 6th April 1894 is included in Oppolzer’s map (Chart 148). The Nautical Almanac of 1894 has also shown the path of this eclipse by a map. It can be seen from both these sources that the path of this eclipses passes through India.
The Promised Messiah, peace be on him, and his companions, saw this eclipse form Qadian. The Promised Messiah, peace be on him, stated that people should ponder over this fact that the sign was manifested in his country. He thus wrote as follow: "O servants of God, ponder and think. Do you consider it permissible that the Mahdi should be born in the countries of Arabia and Syria and his Sign should be manifested in our country; and you know that the wisdom of God does not separate the Sign from the person for whom the Sign is meant. Then how could it be possible that the Mahdi should be in the East but his sign should be in the West. And this should be sufficient for you if you are really seekers after truth." [Noorul Haq Part II]
In short the prophecy of our beloved master, the Holy Prophet, peace and blessings of Allah be upon him, was fulfilled with great accuracy in a most elegant manner.
"...So blessed is Allah, the Best of creators." [Al-Mu'minun 23:15]
Sir Isaac Newton had discovered the law of gravitation in the 17th century of the Christian era. Detailed astronomical calculations of the eclipses were not possible before this discovery. But our lord and master, the Holy Prophet, peace and blessings of Allah be upon him, made such an amazing prophecy on the basis of the knowledge he acquired directly from the omniscient God. I cannot conceive a better heavenly sign than this for indicating the advent of the Promised Messiah, peace be on him.
Congratulations from the Promised Messiah and Mahdi on the fulfillment of the prophecy
The Promised Messiah, peace be on him, was thrilled by the fulfillment of the grand prophecy of the Holy Prophet, peace and blessings of Allah be upon him. Replete with gratitude to Almighty God for His magnificent favour, he wrote a poem in Arabic.
The meaning in English of some of the verses are as follows:
Glad tidings to you O community brothers.
Congratulations to you O community friends.
The brilliance of God’s bounty has become manifest.
And the way is opened for the person who can see.
And a prophecy of glad tidings of the Chief Prophet of Allah.
Have been fulfilled in such a pure way that there is no blemish in it.
Today every enlightened person is weeping.
In remembrance of the bounties of Almighty Allah.
And in acknowledgment of the fulfillment of the prophecy of our prophet.
And are reflecting upon the Greatness of Allah, the real Benefactor.
Today every person who has pledged allegiance
Has increased so much in faith as though he has acquired a new faith.
This is a long poem which ends with the verse;
O my Lord, bless this for the sake of the countenance of Muhammad.
Who is the best of all the noble and purest of all the pure.
The second pair of eclipses of Ramazan 1312 Hijri (March 1895)
According to another Hadees:
"The sun will be eclipsed twice in Ramazan before the advent of Mahdi." [Mukhtasir Tazkira Al-Qurtabi p.148 by Alqutbur Rabbani Skeikh Abdul Wahab Sherani]
In the following year 1895 C.E lunar and solar eclipses again occurred in the month of Ramazan on the 11th of March and the 26th of March respectively. These eclipses occurred in the West. They were not visible from Qadian, but when the eclipses occurred, the dates in Qadian were the 13th and the 28th of Ramazan respectively. The date of an eclipse can differ with the place.
The Promised Messiah, peace be on him, made mention of these eclipses also in his book Haqiqatul Wahi. He wrote as follows:
"As stated in another Hadees, this eclipse occurred twice in Ramazan first in this country and then in America, and on both occasion it occurred on the same date. Since at the time of the eclipse there was no claimant on earth of Mahdi Ma’hood (Reformer of the Time) and since nobody else declared this eclipse as his sign and published hundreds of pamphlets and books in Urdu, Persian and Arabic, this heavenly sign is for me. Another proof of this is the fact twelve years before this sign occurred, Almighty God had informed me that such a sign would occur and this news which is stated in Braheen-e-Ahmadiyya was announced to hundreds of thousands of people before the sign was manifested." [Haqiqatul Wahi p. 195]
Answer to the objection that lunar and solar eclipses have occurred many times in Ramazan
Objections have been raised that lunar and solar eclipses have occurred in the month of Ramazan several times and hence these could not be a reasonable criterion for the recognition of a Divine Messenger. It is true that, both eclipses have occurred in the same month of Ramazan many times but it is important to note that the Hadees makes mention of specific dates and the presence of the claimant is a vital part of the prophecy. The words ‘----Arabic----’ [which has never appeared before since the creation of the heavens and the earth] used in the Hadees clearly show that the prophecy is highly significant.
Furthermore, the presence of the claimant is a necessary condition for the fulfillment of the prophecy. The words of the Hadees ‘our Mahdi’ make it clear that this Sign is for the benefit of the Mahdi. Mere occurrence of the eclipses without the claimant are of no significance.
The words ‘----Arabic----’ [which has never appeared before since the creation of the heavens and the earth] in the Hadees, imply that such a sign never occurred before. They do not imply that such eclipses never occurred before. The Promised Messiah, said:
"We are not concerned with how often solar and lunar eclipses have occurred in the month of Ramazan from the beginning of the world till today. Our aim is only to mention that from the time man has appeared in this world, solar and lunar eclipses have occurred as Signs only in my age for me. Prior to me, no one had this circumstances that on one hand he claimed to be Mahdi Mauood (Promised Reformer) and on the other, in the month of Ramazan, on the appointed dates, lunar and solar eclipses occurred and he declared the eclipses as signs in his favour. The Hadees of Darqutni does not say at all that solar and lunar eclipses did not occur ever before, but it does clearly say that such eclipses never occurred earlier as Signs, because the word ‘lum takuna’ is used which denotes feminine gender; this implies that such a Sign was never manifested before. If it was meant that such eclipses never occurred before ‘lum yakuna’ which denotes masculine gender was needed and not ‘lum takuna’ which denoted feminine gender. It is clear from this that the reference is to the two signs because signs are of feminine gender. Hence if anybody thinks that many times lunar and solar eclipse have occurred, it is his responsibility to show the claimant to Mahdi who declared the solar and lunar eclipses as his sign and this proof should be certain and conclusive and this can only happen if a book of the claimant is produced who claimed to be Mahdi Ma’hood and had written that the lunar and solar eclipses which occurred in Ramazan on the dates specified in Darqutni are the Signs of my truth. In short we are not concerned with the mere occurrence of solar and lunar eclipses even if they had been thousands of times. As a Sign this has happened at the time of a claimant only once and the Hadees has proved its authenticity and truth through its fulfillment at the time of the claimant to Mahdi." [Chashma-e-Marifat, p. 315]
The Promised Messiah, peace be on him, further said:
"As a matter of fact, since Adam to the present time, nobody ever made a prophecy like this. The prophecy has four aspects: (1) the occurrence of the lunar eclipse on the first of the eclipse nights. (2) the occurrence of the solar eclipse on the middle of the eclipse days, (3) the occurrence in the month of Ramazan and (4) the presence of the claimant who has been rejected. Hence if the greatness of this prophecy is denied, then show a parallel to it in the world, and until a parallel cannot be found, this prophecy ranks foremost among all those prophecies to which the verse ‘fla yuzhar ala ghaibehi ahada’ can be applied, because it is stated here that from the time of Adam to the end, it has no parallel." [Tohfa-e-Golarviya, p. 29]
The challenge of the Promised Messiah and Mahdi (peace be upon him)
The Promised Messiah, peace be upon him, also gave a challenge with a reward of one thousand rupees to any one who could show that such a Sign had occurred earlier. He stated as follows:
"Are you not afraid to deny the Hadees of the Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings of Allah be upon him, even though its truth has become as manifest as the bright sun? Can you present a Sign like this in any age in the past. Do you read in any book that some person claimed to be from Almighty God and then in his time in Ramazan, the lunar and solar eclipses occurred as you have now seen? If you are aware then relate it and you will get one thousand rupees as a reward if you can show. So prove it and take this reward and I make Almighty God a witness. And if you cannot prove, and you will never be able to prove, then guard against the Fire which is prepared for those who create disorder." [Nooral Haq Part II]
Declaration on oath by the Promised Messiah and Mahdi
The Promised Messiah and Mahdi, peace be on him, also declared on oath that he is the Promised Divine Messenger and that the lunar and solar eclipses are Divine Signs for him. He stated as follows:
"In my age only in the month of Ramazan, eclipses of the sun and the moon occurred; in my age in accordance with the authentic sayings of the Holy Prophet and the Holy Quran and earlier Books, there was plague all over the country, and in my age only new mode of transport, namely railways came into existence and in my age only, as per my prophecies, terrible earthquakes came. Does not then righteousness demand that one should not be bold in denying my. Look! I swear by Almighty God and say that thousands of signs for establishing my truth have been manifested, are being manifested and will be manifested. If this were a man’s plan, never he would have enjoyed such a support and help." [Haqiqatul Wahi p. 45]
He further said:
"And I also swear by Almighty God that I am the Promised Messiah and I am the same person who was promised by the prophets. There is news about me and my age in the Torah and the Gospel and the Holy Quran, it is stated that there will be eclipses in the sky and severe plague on the earth." [Dafiul Balaa p. 18]
He also said:
"I swear by God in Whose Hand is my life that He has manifested this Sign in the sky to testify my truthfulness, and He manifested it at a time when the Maulvis (theologians) named me Dajjal (Anti-Christ), biggest liar, infidel and even biggest infidel. This is the same Sign regarding which twenty years ago I was promised in 'Braheen- e-Ahmadiyya', namely. 'Tell them I have with me testimony from Allah, will you believe it or not? Tell them I have with me testimony from Allah, will you accept it or not?' It should be remembered that although there are many proofs from Almighty God for vindicating my truthfulness and more than a hundred prophecies that have been fulfilled to which hundreds of thousands of people are witnesses, but in this revelation, this prophecy has been mentioned specifically. I have been given such a sign which was not given to anybody else from the time of Adam to the present time. In short I can stand in the sacred precincts of the Ka’aba and swear that this sign is for testifying my truth." [Tohfa-e-Golarbiyya p. 53]
In his verses, the Promised Mahdi, peace be on him, appealed as follow:
To imagine that a Mahdi will come who will cause bloodshed
And make religion prosper by killing the disbelievers.
O ignorant people, these ideas are completely wrong.
They are calumnious and baseless, and they will not flourish,
O my dears, the man who was to come, has already come.
Even the sun the moon have disclosed this secret to you.
|
| Theteck
User ID: 472192
7/23/2008 5:14 AM | | Re: IS 'JESUS CHRIST' COMING BACK AS A MAN OR A CHILD? | Quote |
like a alien its a possibility |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 462135
7/23/2008 5:15 AM | | Re: IS 'JESUS CHRIST' COMING BACK AS A MAN OR A CHILD? | Quote |
That long winded mofo made me nauseas...
In like manner... |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 247705
7/23/2008 5:34 AM | | Re: IS 'JESUS CHRIST' COMING BACK AS A MAN OR A CHILD? | Quote |
* He will be tall
* He will be fair complexioned
* His facial features will be similar to those of Rasulullah (Sallallahu Alayhi Wasallam)
* His character will be exactly like that of Rasulullah (Sallallahu Alayhi Wasallam)
* His father's name will be Abdullah
* His mother's name will be Aamina
* He will speak with a slight stutter and occasionally this stutter will frustrate him causing him to hit his hand upon his thigh.
* His age at the time of his emergence will be forty years
* He will receive Knowledge from Allah.
how if mahdi / jesus comis as premature baby without a face
lmao |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 247705
7/23/2008 5:35 AM | | Re: IS 'JESUS CHRIST' COMING BACK AS A MAN OR A CHILD? | Quote |
* He will be tall
* He will be fair complexioned
* His facial features will be similar to those of Rasulullah (Sallallahu Alayhi Wasallam)
* His character will be exactly like that of Rasulullah (Sallallahu Alayhi Wasallam)
* His father's name will be Abdullah
* His mother's name will be Aamina
* He will speak with a slight stutter and occasionally this stutter will frustrate him causing him to hit his hand upon his thigh.
* His age at the time of his emergence will be forty years
* He will receive Knowledge from Allah.
how if mahdi / jesus coming as premature baby without a face
lmao |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 471407
7/23/2008 5:47 AM | | Re: IS 'JESUS CHRIST' COMING BACK AS A MAN OR A CHILD? | Quote |
I AM THE MAN CHILD
But no one will believe me so i will just let my spirit do the work from now on
[link to www.crystalinks.com] |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 247705
7/23/2008 5:55 AM | | Re: IS 'JESUS CHRIST' COMING BACK AS A MAN OR A CHILD? | Quote |
* He will be tall
* He will be fair complexioned
* His facial features will be similar to those of Rasulullah (Sallallahu Alayhi Wasallam)
* His character will be exactly like that of Rasulullah (Sallallahu Alayhi Wasallam)
* His father's name will be Abdullah
* His mother's name will be Aamina
* He will speak with a slight stutter and occasionally this stutter will frustrate him causing him to hit his hand upon his thigh.
* His age at the time of his emergence will be forty years
* He will receive Knowledge from Allah.
how if mahdi / jesus coming as premature baby without a face
lmao Quoting: Anonymous Coward 247705
* His mother's name will be Madonna
wow jesus you have hot mommie |
| Lostprobe
User ID: 472205
7/23/2008 6:08 AM | | Re: IS 'JESUS CHRIST' COMING BACK AS A MAN OR A CHILD? | Quote |
Neither... the return of christ is a shift in consciouness, not a person. We had a person once and look what we did to him. Stop taking that stupid book so literally! It was written by a person. |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 455142
7/23/2008 6:29 AM | | Re: IS 'JESUS CHRIST' COMING BACK AS A MAN OR A CHILD? | Quote |
Either Revelation 12 is 'retrospective prophecy' or the Second coming of Christ is a sham. Quoting: GDW 472154
Those are the only two possibilities huh?
Maybe the third is that you are an ignorant idiot.
Revelation 12 clearly states that a child will be born...yet Christians expect a 'second coming' of 'Jesus Christ' the man?!?!?
Which is it? Quoting: GDW 472154
No. It does not clearly say that!
It is amazing (and sad) how you Bible skeptics nitpick sections of the scripture and criticize, yet you are completely ignorant to the whole.
If you would actually read the Bible the answer to Revelation 12 would be clear to you. However, since you have never actually read the Book, only the bits and pieces you want to slander, you are now and will remain ignorant.
Keep in mind... ALL of the questions within the Book of Revelation (allusions, parables, etc) are fully and clearly answered elsewhere in the scriptures.
The Bible defines itself, all you have to do is read.
You can not!
I repeat...
You can not read and fully understand the Book of Revelation without extensive knowledge of the scriptures which define it; they are found throughout the Old and New Testaments. |
| rlc3764
User ID: 336907
7/23/2008 6:43 AM | | Re: IS 'JESUS CHRIST' COMING BACK AS A MAN OR A CHILD? | Quote |
A CHILD GROOMED TO BE THE MAN OF WISDOM...
THE SON OF MAN WITH A HEART AND MIND OF GOD....
CHRIST means Center Heavenly Research/Restoration In Scientific/Spiritual Truth.
Let the Truth come out, for the Truth shall set us free. |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 435200
7/23/2008 7:07 AM | | Re: IS 'JESUS CHRIST' COMING BACK AS A MAN OR A CHILD? | Quote |
Ahh ... nothing like waiting for something that will never happen  |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 336907
7/23/2008 7:12 AM | | Re: IS 'JESUS CHRIST' COMING BACK AS A MAN OR A CHILD? | Quote |
Ahh ... nothing like waiting for something that will never happen
NOTHING REALLY HAPPENS TO THE PEOPLE WITHOUT LEAP OF FAITH ... LOL |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 435200
7/23/2008 7:27 AM | | Re: IS 'JESUS CHRIST' COMING BACK AS A MAN OR A CHILD? | Quote |
Ahh ... nothing like waiting for something that will never happen
NOTHING REALLY HAPPENS TO THE PEOPLE WITHOUT LEAP OF FAITH ... LOL
Yeah, but if you notice, said leap is always off a cliff |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 433953
7/23/2008 7:34 AM | | Re: IS 'JESUS CHRIST' COMING BACK AS A MAN OR A CHILD? | Quote |
Chapter 12 is not about Jesus Christ. If you read the whole book you will discover that Jesus has a new name. The child that the woman gives birth to in chapter 12 is born of the Spirit and not of the flesh. The body of a woman and the Spirit of a man. |
| Lotus Feet
User ID: 433953
7/23/2008 7:58 AM | | Re: IS 'JESUS CHRIST' COMING BACK AS A MAN OR A CHILD? | Quote |
"she shall crush thy head of the serpent".
"the seed of the woman is the serpent-crusher"
What is the seed? The WORD
[link to www.catholic.com]
What does the serpent represent ? Desire, temptation and the accuser otherwise known as satan.
Now look at passages to do with the flying scroll.
Zechariah 5
The Flying Scroll
1 Then I turned and raised my eyes, and saw there a flying scroll. 2 And he said to me, "What do you see?" So I answered, "I see a flying scroll. Its length is twenty cubits and its width ten cubits." 3 Then he said to me, "This is the curse that goes out over the face of the whole earth: 'Every thief shall be expelled,' according to this side of the scroll; and, 'Every perjurer shall be expelled,' according to that side of it." 4 "I will send out the curse," says the Lord of hosts; "It shall enter the house of the thief And the house of the one who swears falsely by My name. It shall remain in the midst of his house And consume it, with its timber and stones."
Zechariah 5:1-4
(1) Then.. a flying scroll: This is the 6th vision of Zechariah. The scroll was the equivalent of a book. Since there were no books in Zechariah’s day, but scrolls. The outstanding features being, the size of the scroll and that it flies.
(3) Length…twenty...width.., ten cubits: One of the most peculiar aspects of the scroll is its size, Twenty cubits (30 feet) by Ten Cubits (15 feet). This is the identical size of the Holy Place, the room before the Holy of Holies in the Temple and Tabernacle (Exodus 26:33). In the Holy Place stood the Lampstand, the Bread of presence and the altar of incense.
This is…curse.. The contents of the scroll was the curse, which goes over the earth. God’s word is, sweet and bitter, sweet to those who benefit, but bitter to those who resist it. Both John and Ezekiel were told to eat a scroll, in their mouth, it was sweet but in the stomachs it became bitter. (Ezekiel 3:1-3)
[link to www.truthnet.org]
Who is worthy to open this scroll?
Then he came and took the scroll of the right hand of him who sat on the throne. Rev: 5.1
Worthy is the one that takes this scroll into their heart.
The one that sits on his throne at the right hand of God is the prophet that Jesus promised to send in the end times of the end of the age.
The Paraclete
Lotus |
| Lotus Feet
User ID: 433953
7/23/2008 8:23 AM | | Re: IS 'JESUS CHRIST' COMING BACK AS A MAN OR A CHILD? | Quote |
In gematria no 15 = sprout, ear (of grain e.g. the seed..that sprouts.....
no 30 = Father is goodness and Lamed. The hebrew letter for Lamed comes from the root lamad and it means to teach.
A heart that understands knowledge through the evidence of their experience.
[link to www.hebrew4christians.com]
The palm, the power to actualize potential, becomes manifest - at the inner spiritual level - in the "will [crown, keter] of the heart" to conceive and unite with God's Will.
The lamed, the heart, aspires upwardly and connects to the yud of Divine insight. This is reflected in the form of the letter lamed, a kaf reaching upward to a yud. This is also the secret of the spiritual sequence hinted at in the letters of the word keli, "vessel" (kaf-lamed-yud): the power to actualize potential (the palm [kaf] of the Ba'al Shem Tov), manifest in the aspiration of the heart [lamed] reaching upward to conceive the secret of Divine wisdom [yud].
[link to www.inner.org]
So the numbers reflect the nature of the work that is to fly across the world.
Lotus |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 459297
7/23/2008 8:35 AM | | Re: IS 'JESUS CHRIST' COMING BACK AS A MAN OR A CHILD? | Quote |
All spamming makes me nauseous. Dead words. |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 433953
7/23/2008 8:37 AM | | Re: IS 'JESUS CHRIST' COMING BACK AS A MAN OR A CHILD? | Quote |
The heart links to the palm of the hand they both have heart chakras. The scroll will be written from the heart by the hand that is guided by God and his son. |
| Lotus Feet
User ID: 433953
7/23/2008 8:50 AM | | Re: IS 'JESUS CHRIST' COMING BACK AS A MAN OR A CHILD? | Quote |
The feet represent the steps that were taken in depth and breadth to acquire the gnosis. Many gateways were entered to get to the holy of holies. There are many heavens and spheres of consciousness. She followed the Lord and walked in the footsteps of the Master and in so doing she became a Master herself. |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 419373
7/23/2008 9:00 AM | | Re: IS 'JESUS CHRIST' COMING BACK AS A MAN OR A CHILD? | Quote |
The Bible itself tells us how Jesus will come back. It will be as the King of Kings and Lord of Lords. He is NOT coming back as a baby! If you know this, you will not fall for the false Christ who is to come before the true One.
"And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as He went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen Him go into heaven" (Acts 1:10-11)
"At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory." {Matt 24:30}
Behold, he is coming with the clouds,
and every eye will see him. {Rev 1:7}
I saw heaven standing open and there before me was a white horse, whose rider is called Faithful and True. With justice he judges and makes war. His eyes are like blazing fire, and on his head are many crowns [diadems]. He has a name written on him that no one but he himself knows. He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God. The armies of heaven were following him, riding on white horses and dressed in fine linen, white and clean. Out of his mouth comes a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations. "He will rule them with an iron scepter." He treads the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God Almighty. On his robe and on his thigh he has this name written:
KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS. {Rev 19:11-16} |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 471878
7/23/2008 9:07 AM | | Re: IS 'JESUS CHRIST' COMING BACK AS A MAN OR A CHILD? | Quote |
As an ENERGY |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 462545
7/23/2008 9:13 AM | | Re: IS 'JESUS CHRIST' COMING BACK AS A MAN OR A CHILD? | Quote |
IS 'JESUS CHRIST' COMING BACK AS A MAN OR A CHILD? Quoting: GDW 472154
I'm sorry, but if you haven't realised by now that the CHRIST is the SUN, then nobody can help you once we head into the photon belt come 2012.
We are about to evolve. It's your destiny. |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 464268
7/23/2008 9:14 AM | | Re: IS 'JESUS CHRIST' COMING BACK AS A MAN OR A CHILD? | Quote |
no his back with ufo
did you ever watching about ancient astronout ? |
| Dread Pirate Roberts
User ID: 469981
7/23/2008 9:30 AM | | Re: IS 'JESUS CHRIST' COMING BACK AS A MAN OR A CHILD? | Quote |
Either Revelation 12 is 'retrospective prophecy' or the Second coming of Christ is a sham.
Revelation 12 clearly states that a child will be born...yet Christians expect a 'second coming' of 'Jesus Christ' the man?!?!?
Which is it? Quoting: GDW 472154
Neither.
"12:1 A great and wondrous sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head. 2 She was pregnant and cried out in pain as she was about to give birth."
"12:3 Then another sign appeared in heaven: an enormous red dragon with seven heads and ten horns and seven crowns on his heads. 4 His tail swept a third of the stars out of the sky and flung them to the earth. The dragon stood in front of the woman who was about to give birth, so that he might devour her child the moment it was born. 5 She gave birth to a son, a male child, who will rule all the nations with an iron sceptre. And her child was snatched up to God and to his throne. 6 The woman fled into the desert to a place prepared for her by God, where she might be taken care of for 1,260 days."
The devil is here revealed as the ancient enemy of God's people followed by his two henchmen who do his bidding on earth, the beast out of the sea and the beast out of the earth. John sees a number of signs in heaven; the first sign is a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head, she represents the old testament church. She was about to give birth to a male child, the Christ. Then another sign appeared in heaven, an enormous red dragon who is the devil. He tried to kill Christ as he was born, but Jesus ascended to heaven and to God and his throne. The church was then taken care of by God during the gospel age.
v2 - She was pregnant and cried out as she was about to give birth - She cried out with her birth pangs, (cf. Isa 26:17, 66:7-8, Micah 4:10) these probably represent the various attempts to kill the child, who is Christ, before she gave birth. See Gen 3:15 for description of enmity between them.
v4 - The dragon stood in front of the woman who was about to give birth, so that he might devour her child the moment it was born - This refers to king Herod who tried to kill Jesus when he was born, Mat 2:16
v5 - She gave birth to a son, a male child, who will rule all the nations with an iron sceptre. - However the Dragon did not succeed in destroying the male child. In case we have any doubt who the child is, he is a male child, 'who will rule all the nations with an iron sceptre', which is a reference from the messianic psalm 2:9, the male child is Jesus.
v5 - And her child was snatched up to God and to his throne. - This indicates the ascension of our Lord, Mark 16:19.
v6 - The woman fled into the desert to a place prepared for her by God, where she might be taken care of for 1,260 days. The woman, as Israel, flees to Petra, is the commonly accepted interpretation
v11 - They overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony; they did not love their lives so much as to shrink from death." Jesus was a man who shed His blood, not a baby.
v13 - When the dragon saw that he had been hurled to the earth, he pursued the woman who had given birth to the male child. - He pursued the woman who had given birth to the male child, that is the people of God, in order to persecute it, once more there is a reference to the exodus with Pharaoh in pursuit (Ex 14:8). Having failed to kill the Son, he tries to hurt the Son through his people. The grown Son. |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 472264
7/23/2008 9:48 AM | | Re: IS 'JESUS CHRIST' COMING BACK AS A MAN OR A CHILD? | Quote |
Neither... the return of christ is a shift in consciouness, not a person. We had a person once and look what we did to him. Stop taking that stupid book so literally! It was written by a person. Quoting: Lostprobe 472205
Revelation 1:7
7 Look, he is coming with the clouds,
and every eye will see him,
even those who pierced him;
and all the peoples of the Earth will mourn because of him. So shall it be! Amen.
Whilst i dealt with Jesus for 5 and 1/2 years from mid November 1999, Jesus was in Spirit form only. At no time did i see him.
i did not ask Jesus his age, but in my opinion Jesus could still 33. |
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