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| | Page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 | IRAN: A signal the mullah regime may be ready to fold on the nuke issue
| Pondlady02
User ID: 355072
7/24/2008 12:51 AM | | Re: IRAN: A signal the mullah regime may be ready to fold on the nuke issue | Quote |
There is no just reason under the current scenario to start another WW. Full stop.
.
That is of course why various nations would like to see Iran's nuclear facilities bombed - to stop WWIII
Iran is run by the Mullahs - whose proclaimed sacred 'mission' is to pave the way for the return of the 12th Immam, in order that Islam can conquer the world.
Khomeini clearly stated his willingness to sacrifice Iran in order to achieve this goal!
It is no use pretending that this is a private Iranian issue. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 472598
You are repeating what ickymenajab has said on many occassions. Guess some folks just won't listen. |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 472598
7/24/2008 1:15 AM | | Re: IRAN: A signal the mullah regime may be ready to fold on the nuke issue | Quote |
He always wants to morph the discussions of truth and fact into hatred and racism, when, in fact, that very repeated behavior indicates the position from which he most likely seems to be operating.
Sort-of sad really until you consider he is doing this to drum up global support of WWIII using false info, half truths and manipulations...and that is where I draw the line.
. Quoting: TX PATRIOT
Interesting ...... a spectacularly shameless and cynical inversion of the truth!
I guess you have just outed yourself as a professional Iranian shill! |
| TX PATRIOT
User ID: 440969
7/24/2008 1:20 AM | | Re: IRAN: A signal the mullah regime may be ready to fold on the nuke issue | Quote |
There is no just reason under the current scenario to start another WW. Full stop.
.
That is of course why various nations would like to see Iran's nuclear facilities bombed - to stop WWIII Quoting: Anonymous Coward 472598
That logic is completely faulty:
Engaging in behavior that we know - without a doubt - will incite WWIII to prevent the possibility of WWIII.
Or stated another way:
Engaging in behaviors that we know – without a doubt – will incite WWIII to prevent the behavior that might lead to WWIII.
It seems that the argument boils down to who will start WWIII first as if it’s a harmless, everyday game of cards.
. |
| TX PATRIOT
User ID: 440969
7/24/2008 1:22 AM | | Re: IRAN: A signal the mullah regime may be ready to fold on the nuke issue | Quote |
He always wants to morph the discussions of truth and fact into hatred and racism, when, in fact, that very repeated behavior indicates the position from which he most likely seems to be operating.
Sort-of sad really until you consider he is doing this to drum up global support of WWIII using false info, half truths and manipulations...and that is where I draw the line.
.
Interesting ...... a spectacularly shameless and cynical inversion of the truth!
I guess you have just outed yourself as a professional Iranian shill! Quoting: Anonymous Coward 472598
LMAO....nope, just looking at the facts.
. |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 472598
7/24/2008 5:31 AM | | Re: IRAN: A signal the mullah regime may be ready to fold on the nuke issue | Quote |
That is of course why various nations would like to see Iran's nuclear facilities bombed - to stop WWIII
That logic is completely faulty:
Engaging in behavior that we know - without a doubt - will incite WWIII to prevent the possibility of WWIII.
It seems that the argument boils down to who will start WWIII first as if it’s a harmless, everyday game of cards.
. Quoting: TX PATRIOT
Interesting you should say that you 'know without a doubt' that bombing Irans nuclear facilities will start WWIII - how do you know that? - without a doubt? - someone tell you did they?
Perhaps you know full well (being an Iranian shill) that it is the Mullahs intention to start WWIII |
| TX PATRIOT
User ID: 440969
7/24/2008 5:58 AM | | Re: IRAN: A signal the mullah regime may be ready to fold on the nuke issue | Quote |
That is of course why various nations would like to see Iran's nuclear facilities bombed - to stop WWIII
That logic is completely faulty:
Engaging in behavior that we know - without a doubt - will incite WWIII to prevent the possibility of WWIII.
It seems that the argument boils down to who will start WWIII first as if it’s a harmless, everyday game of cards.
.
Interesting you should say that you 'know without a doubt' that bombing Irans nuclear facilities will start WWIII - how do you know that? - without a doubt? - someone tell you did they?
Perhaps you know full well (being an Iranian shill) that it is the Mullahs intention to start WWIII Quoting: Anonymous Coward 472598
You can't really be that stupid, can you?
. |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 472598
7/24/2008 6:10 AM | | Re: IRAN: A signal the mullah regime may be ready to fold on the nuke issue | Quote |
'You can't really be that stupid, can you?'
Um.... I guess you are going to have to spell it out - why you 'know without doubt' that bombing Irans nuclear facilities is going to inevitably lead to WWIII. |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 465868
7/24/2008 6:35 AM | | Re: IRAN: A signal the mullah regime may be ready to fold on the nuke issue | Quote |
'You can't really be that stupid, can you?'
Um.... I guess you are going to have to spell it out - why you 'know without doubt' that bombing Irans nuclear facilities is going to inevitably lead to WWIII. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 472598
When the behemoth known as China that needs vast amounts of oil and gas from Iran no longer can?
They could of course unload American debt completely, that would be really funny! |
| TX PATRIOT
User ID: 440969
7/24/2008 6:53 AM | | Re: IRAN: A signal the mullah regime may be ready to fold on the nuke issue | Quote |
'You can't really be that stupid, can you?'
Um.... I guess you are going to have to spell it out - why you 'know without doubt' that bombing Irans nuclear facilities is going to inevitably lead to WWIII. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 472598
If you were well read and informed on current and historical events and could connect the dots, then you wouldn't need hand holding. But I will help you along...
First, Iran will strike back with a vengeance. One only needs study Iran's history to understand that they fight back hard when they are attacked...as one would expect any country to do...and they have a significant amount of experience in this area.
Then add Russia and China who both have massive energy stakes in Iran. Russia has already positioned herself in this backing. Additionally, Russia has been offered the opportunity to place military bases in Venezuela putting them strategically close to the US.
Add in the EU to back the US.
Then throw in Afganistan and nuclear Paki, both countries who are in great unrest right now and not pleased with US interference in their governance.
It doesn't take a Mensa member to speculate that Syria and Turkey will just sit idly by and watch the show.
India and Paki - a powder keg just waiting to explode - both nuclear countries are at open odds again.
All the above alliances aside, what in the hell do you think is going to happen when the US flies into the ME with bombs unjustly attacking a sovereign country YET AGAIN?
At what point do you think the tipping point of these countries will be reached? At what point will they forget the differences between them and band together under the banner of religious Islam in defense of one another, their citizens, their land and their sovereignty against an attacking and invading US?
As you can clearly see, if there are two neurons to rub together in your brain, these arguments to attack Iran will lead not only to WWIII but to a self-fulfilling prophecy that Islam wants to take out the world. What better way to push 2 billion geographically diverse (generally speaking) people together under a religious defense than to attack Iran under the banner of "they can't have nukes because their religion is evil" and they might come after us (but it's OK for us to have nukes)?
Self-fulling prophecy, indeed. WWIII, most certainly.
It certainly doesn't take a "shill" to understand these dynamics. It's right in front of everyone's face.
. |
| TX PATRIOT
User ID: 440969
7/24/2008 7:03 AM | | Re: IRAN: A signal the mullah regime may be ready to fold on the nuke issue | Quote |
If you were well read and informed on current and historical events and could connect the dots, then you wouldn't need hand holding. But I will help you along...
First, Iran will strike back with a vengeance. One only needs study Iran's history to understand that they fight back hard when they are attacked...as one would expect any country to do...and they have a significant amount of experience in this area.
Then add Russia and China who both have massive energy stakes in Iran. Russia has already positioned herself in this backing. Additionally, Russia has been offered the opportunity to place military bases in Venezuela putting them strategically close to the US.
Add in the EU to back the US.
Then throw in Afganistan and nuclear Paki, both countries who are in great unrest right now and not pleased with US interference in their governance.
It doesn't take a Mensa member to speculate that Syria and Turkey will just sit idly by and watch the show.
India and Paki - a powder keg just waiting to explode - both nuclear countries are at open odds again.
All the above alliances aside, what in the hell do you think is going to happen when the US flies into the ME with bombs unjustly attacking a sovereign country YET AGAIN?
At what point do you think the tipping point of these countries will be reached? At what point will they forget the differences between them and band together under the banner of religious Islam in defense of one another, their citizens, their land and their sovereignty against an attacking and invading US?
As you can clearly see, if there are two neurons to rub together in your brain, these arguments to attack Iran will lead not only to WWIII but to a self-fulfilling prophecy that Islam wants to take out the world. What better way to push 2 billion geographically diverse (generally speaking) people together under a religious defense than to attack Iran under the banner of "they can't have nukes because their religion is evil" and they might come after us (but it's OK for us to have nukes)?
Self-fulling prophecy, indeed. WWIII, most certainly.
It certainly doesn't take a "shill" to understand these dynamics. It's right in front of everyone's face.
. Quoting: TX PATRIOT 440969
Typos and grammatical errors throughout; however, two important statements should read:
"It doesn't take a Mensa member to speculate that Syria and Turkey will NOT just sit idly by and watch the show."
and
"What better way to push 2 billion geographically diverse (generally speaking) people together under a religious defense than to attack Iran under the banner of "Iran can't have nukes because their religion is evil" and Iran might come after us (but it's OK for US, Israel, EU, etc [the attackers] to have nukes)?
. |
| TX PATRIOT
User ID: 440969
7/24/2008 7:15 AM | | Re: IRAN: A signal the mullah regime may be ready to fold on the nuke issue | Quote |
Not to mention the reactions when a good chunk of the world's oil supply is cut off due to a free-for-all war in the the ME...shutting down economies, food supplies, etc.
Maybe this scenario is exactly what TPTB want to occur.....reset what's left to One World Order.
. |
| TX PATRIOT
User ID: 440969
7/24/2008 8:07 AM | | Re: IRAN: A signal the mullah regime may be ready to fold on the nuke issue | Quote |
Um.... I guess you are going to have to spell it out - why you 'know without doubt' that bombing Irans nuclear facilities is going to inevitably lead to WWIII. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 472598
Did my little antagonistic, yet off base, critic take off for Starbucks?
. |
| Grizzled Old Goat 
Get off my land..
User ID: 472730
7/24/2008 8:49 AM
 | | Re: IRAN: A signal the mullah regime may be ready to fold on the nuke issue | Quote |
Anyone that doesn't trust the mullahs with the bomb just has to be jewish.
Anyone who spends as much time promoting the hive as GOG does is either a member, or a paid stooge for them.
He always wants to morph the discussions of truth and fact into hatred and racism, when, in fact, that very repeated behavior indicates the position from which he most likely seems to be operating.
Sort-of sad really until you consider he is doing this to drum up global support of WWIII using false info, half truths and manipulations...
. Quoting: TX PATRIOT 440969
Yeah - that's what I'm doing. I cant WAIT for world war 3!!!
Puhleeze!
I've noticed that everyone who is for abortion has already been born.
Ronald Reagan |
| kits
User ID: 357079
7/24/2008 8:58 AM | | Re: IRAN: A signal the mullah regime may be ready to fold on the nuke issue | Quote |
If you were well read and informed on current and historical events and could connect the dots, then you wouldn't need hand holding. But I will help you along...
First, Iran will strike back with a vengeance. One only needs study Iran's history to understand that they fight back hard when they are attacked...as one would expect any country to do...and they have a significant amount of experience in this area.
Then add Russia and China who both have massive energy stakes in Iran. Russia has already positioned herself in this backing. Additionally, Russia has been offered the opportunity to place military bases in Venezuela putting them strategically close to the US.
Add in the EU to back the US.
Then throw in Afganistan and nuclear Paki, both countries who are in great unrest right now and not pleased with US interference in their governance.
It doesn't take a Mensa member to speculate that Syria and Turkey will just sit idly by and watch the show.
India and Paki - a powder keg just waiting to explode - both nuclear countries are at open odds again.
All the above alliances aside, what in the hell do you think is going to happen when the US flies into the ME with bombs unjustly attacking a sovereign country YET AGAIN?
At what point do you think the tipping point of these countries will be reached? At what point will they forget the differences between them and band together under the banner of religious Islam in defense of one another, their citizens, their land and their sovereignty against an attacking and invading US?
As you can clearly see, if there are two neurons to rub together in your brain, these arguments to attack Iran will lead not only to WWIII but to a self-fulfilling prophecy that Islam wants to take out the world. What better way to push 2 billion geographically diverse (generally speaking) people together under a religious defense than to attack Iran under the banner of "they can't have nukes because their religion is evil" and they might come after us (but it's OK for us to have nukes)?
Self-fulling prophecy, indeed. WWIII, most certainly.
It certainly doesn't take a "shill" to understand these dynamics. It's right in front of everyone's face.
. Quoting: TX PATRIOT 440969
Don't forget asymmetric warfare, Patriot. If America directly engages Iran, the US have better jam all radio frequencies, media and communications globally, including its own, but especially those originating from Iran and Russia, and generally cover all bases everywhere, because if not you might have snipers and roadside bombs throughout American cities, chemicals and germs being dispersed into the atmosphere, sabotage and explosions against both military and civilian structures, personnel and hardware, assassinations of government and other elitist figures, a poisoned water supply, a disabled electric supply, a disrupted food supply, a nearly halted oil supply, dissidents rising up to defend themselves from and to attack both sides, electromagnetic attacks, scalar attacks, nuclear attacks, a disrupted and revolting chain of command, bad intelligence everywhere and false or jammed orders going out to America's forces, chaos and destruction everywhere, and just generally Americans won't be having a good time. And I'm just talking about some of the basics, just the ones that would directly involve you, on the homeland, and assuming no country launches direct strikes.
Those who think the countries and private individuals which are angry with America wouldn't be willing to at very least involve themselves indirectly through proxy, there's very good chances you'll have a very rude awakening. You do realize that the whole world isn't going to just sit idly by while US/ISR/TPTB trots the globe committing these atrocities, picking off one nation at a time and screwing them all together collectively, right?
AIM:kits56fa2 |
| Grizzled Old Goat
Get off my land..
User ID: 472730
7/24/2008 9:05 AM
| | Re: IRAN: A signal the mullah regime may be ready to fold on the nuke issue | Quote |
If you were well read and informed on current and historical events and could connect the dots, then you wouldn't need hand holding. But I will help you along...
First, Iran will strike back with a vengeance. One only needs study Iran's history to understand that they fight back hard when they are attacked...as one would expect any country to do...and they have a significant amount of experience in this area.
Then add Russia and China who both have massive energy stakes in Iran. Russia has already positioned herself in this backing. Additionally, Russia has been offered the opportunity to place military bases in Venezuela putting them strategically close to the US.
Add in the EU to back the US.
Then throw in Afganistan and nuclear Paki, both countries who are in great unrest right now and not pleased with US interference in their governance.
It doesn't take a Mensa member to speculate that Syria and Turkey will just sit idly by and watch the show.
India and Paki - a powder keg just waiting to explode - both nuclear countries are at open odds again.
All the above alliances aside, what in the hell do you think is going to happen when the US flies into the ME with bombs unjustly attacking a sovereign country YET AGAIN?
At what point do you think the tipping point of these countries will be reached? At what point will they forget the differences between them and band together under the banner of religious Islam in defense of one another, their citizens, their land and their sovereignty against an attacking and invading US?
As you can clearly see, if there are two neurons to rub together in your brain, these arguments to attack Iran will lead not only to WWIII but to a self-fulfilling prophecy that Islam wants to take out the world. What better way to push 2 billion geographically diverse (generally speaking) people together under a religious defense than to attack Iran under the banner of "they can't have nukes because their religion is evil" and they might come after us (but it's OK for us to have nukes)?
Self-fulling prophecy, indeed. WWIII, most certainly.
It certainly doesn't take a "shill" to understand these dynamics. It's right in front of everyone's face.
.
Don't forget asymmetric warfare, Patriot. If America directly engages Iran, the US have better jam all radio frequencies, media and communications globally, including its own, but especially those originating from Iran and Russia, and generally cover all bases everywhere, because if not you might have snipers and roadside bombs throughout American cities, chemicals and germs being dispersed into the atmosphere, sabotage and explosions against both military and civilian structures, personnel and hardware, assassinations of government and other elitist figures, a poisoned water supply, a disabled electric supply, a disrupted food supply, a nearly halted oil supply, dissidents rising up to defend themselves from and to attack both sides, electromagnetic attacks, scalar attacks, nuclear attacks, a disrupted and revolting chain of command, bad intelligence everywhere and false or jammed orders going out to America's forces, chaos and destruction everywhere, and just generally Americans won't be having a good time. And I'm just talking about some of the basics, just the ones that would directly involve you, on the homeland, and assuming no country launches direct strikes. Quoting: kits
And this is all to happen if America engages Iran? I think you've forgotten that the US has an unrivalled capacity to strike it's enemies, or respond to attacks. Also, Russia and China - who I presume will do the attacking and sabotage in your scenario - are no more interested in a nuclear Iran than we are - not to break up your rather vivid fantasies of the destruction of America.,
Sorry Dude, your theory is colorful, but completely absurd..
I've noticed that everyone who is for abortion has already been born.
Ronald Reagan |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 465868
7/24/2008 9:17 AM | | Re: IRAN: A signal the mullah regime may be ready to fold on the nuke issue | Quote |
And this is all to happen if America engages Iran? I think you've forgotten that the US has an unrivalled capacity to strike it's enemies, or respond to attacks - not to break up your rather vivid fantasies of the destruction of America.,
Sorry Dude, your theory is colorful, but completely absurd.. Quoting: Grizzled Old Goat
Tell that to the 4000+ dead yanks from Iraq! |
| Grizzled Old Goat
Get off my land..
User ID: 472730
7/24/2008 9:34 AM
| | Re: IRAN: A signal the mullah regime may be ready to fold on the nuke issue | Quote |
And this is all to happen if America engages Iran? I think you've forgotten that the US has an unrivalled capacity to strike it's enemies, or respond to attacks - not to break up your rather vivid fantasies of the destruction of America.,
Sorry Dude, your theory is colorful, but completely absurd..
Tell that to the 4000+ dead yanks from Iraq! Quoting: Anonymous Coward 465868
4000 soldiers killed in a war is one thing - the destruction of America is quite another..
Silliness..
I've noticed that everyone who is for abortion has already been born.
Ronald Reagan |
| kits
User ID: 357079
7/24/2008 9:48 AM | | Re: IRAN: A signal the mullah regime may be ready to fold on the nuke issue | Quote |
And this is all to happen if America engages Iran? I think you've forgotten that the US has an unrivalled capacity to strike it's enemies, or respond to attacks. Also, Russia and China - who I presume will do the attacking and sabotage in your scenario - are no more interested in a nuclear Iran than we are - not to break up your rather vivid fantasies of the destruction of America.,
Sorry Dude, your theory is colorful, but completely absurd.. Quoting: Grizzled Old Goat
Those are each a distinct possibility. You're acting as though conventional superiority has anything to do with clandestine efforts. F-22 Raptors have nothing to do with the guy who lives in Seattle with a sniper rifle, explosive ordinance, and who has created a lethal chemical agent for which to release from his window, and blow away whoever he can. 10,000 Abrams tanks has nothing to do with the guy living outside of DC who has a black-market nuke buried in his backyard. The United States Marine Core is in no way involved with the guy who works for the water department who decides to dump something into the water reserves. That USAF Airmen who intends to sabotage those B-1 Lancers isn't being constantly watched, and they have no idea of what his intentions are. You think the US government is prepared to defeat every hostile intention of all 300+ million potential agents, terrorists and angry dissidents?
Because spies, special ops, and so forth - they have a purpose you know, and they can fulfill them. Certainly they wouldn't all successfully complete their missions - but many would, simply because you can't monitor and control everyone and everything in such a large area, with so many loose ends. You can call it absurd if you want, but the fact is that it's realistic, because these things have already been done before, this rounds covert enemies are already posted here, and it's not even remotely possible to fully protect the US against that sort of activity. And as far as Russia and China and everyone except Iran loving America and not having any reason to engage in such activities - that is what's absurd and what's more - all you need is Iran. You don't even need other nations to assist them in this, so long as they understand how to set it up and that they decide to do it.
You must be the most unrealistic person on this board.
AIM:kits56fa2 |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 472598
7/24/2008 9:49 AM | | Re: IRAN: A signal the mullah regime may be ready to fold on the nuke issue | Quote |
Perhaps you know full well (being an Iranian shill) that it is the Mullahs intention to start WWIII Quoting: Anonymous Coward
Ah! - I see that you do comprehend That it is the Iranian response that will (they think) ensure WWIII A response that they have carefully prepared over many years.
Knowing full well that the Israelis or the US will not tolerate the Mullahs to have nuclear weapons, and will be forced to attack them.
Actually the Russians (and Chinese)have been leading the Islamic wackos around for decades like dogs on a leash and have no intention of getting dragged into a nuclear confrontation with the US. They have though enabled the Iranians to strike a crippling blow to the US, Israel and maybe Europe and plan to wait for chaos that follows to render the West incapable of resistance, and can then carve up the world any way they please.
The Mullahs think they have a foolproof plan to get the infidel powers to eliminate each other.
The Russians and Chinese have a foolproof plan to get the Iranians to cripple the West.
There is only one slim chance the US can avoid this, that I can think of - and that is to let the Russians and Chinese know that if nukes start going off in US cities it will launch missiles at their cities.
Of course that would only work if the nuke triggers have been kept under the Russians control and that Iran has not played a double game and sourced nukes from N Korea as well. |
| kits
User ID: 357079
7/24/2008 9:52 AM | | Re: IRAN: A signal the mullah regime may be ready to fold on the nuke issue | Quote |
4000 soldiers killed in a war is one thing - the destruction of America is quite another..
Silliness.. Quoting: Grizzled Old Goat
Ho ho. We're not talking about America being completely obliterated nor are we talking about America falling necessarily. We're talking about a clear, obvious potential for the United Stated to be retaliated against in a clandestine manner, and on a large scale. Which is completely possible, regardless of what you wish to pretend. The US isn't invulnerable to clandestine attacks. Refer to my above reply to you.
AIM:kits56fa2 |
| kits
User ID: 357079
7/24/2008 10:01 AM | | Re: IRAN: A signal the mullah regime may be ready to fold on the nuke issue | Quote |
Ah! - I see that you do comprehend That it is the Iranian response that will (they think) ensure WWIII A response that they have carefully prepared over many years.
Knowing full well that the Israelis or the US will not tolerate the Mullahs to have nuclear weapons, and will be forced to attack them.
Actually the Russians (and Chinese)have been leading the Islamic wackos around for decades like dogs on a leash and have no intention of getting dragged into a nuclear confrontation with the US. They have though enabled the Iranians to strike a crippling blow to the US, Israel and maybe Europe and plan to wait for chaos that follows to render the West incapable of resistance, and can then carve up the world any way they please.
The Mullahs think they have a foolproof plan to get the infidel powers to eliminate each other.
The Russians and Chinese have a foolproof plan to get the Iranians to cripple the West.
There is only one slim chance the US can avoid this, that I can think of - and that is to let the Russians and Chinese know that if nukes start going off in US cities it will launch missiles at their cities.
Of course that would only work if the nuke triggers have been kept under the Russians control and that Iran has not played a double game and sourced nukes from N Korea as well. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 472598
Iran and its allies have been planning and preparing for a retaliatory strike for decades now, not years. And if done properly, it can't be fully protected from. Probability is that if Iran and/or its allies really tried, they could cause a great deal of chaos, death, destruction and destabilization. But you're definitely right in your suggestion that the US has a great deal to fear from the enemies it's creating.
Letting Russians and Chinese know that if a nuke goes off in American cities, the US will launch a strike against them, though? That's an extremely bad idea. That means they could be attacked and obliterated out of the blue for something neither of them even did. They would have to attack and destroy the US as soon as they could, lest the US launch on them without warning, and without real cause. If the US said that, it would be absolutely impossible to avoid a full-fledged total war scenario which includes a nuclear exchange. The probability of an immensely devastating WW3 would be 100%
AIM:kits56fa2 |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 472598
7/24/2008 10:08 AM | | Re: IRAN: A signal the mullah regime may be ready to fold on the nuke issue | Quote |
They would have to attack and destroy the US as soon as they could, lest the US launch on them without warning, and without real cause. If the US said that, it would be absolutely impossible to avoid a full-fledged total war scenario which includes a nuclear exchange. Quoting: kits
Well I said it was a slim chance! - and in that case, it is the Mullahs that have the fool proof plan!
However my guess is that none of it goes according to plan - and hence the vast amount of prophecy about these events will come to pass - inevitably! |
| kits
User ID: 357079
7/24/2008 10:45 AM | | Re: IRAN: A signal the mullah regime may be ready to fold on the nuke issue | Quote |
Well I said it was a slim chance! - and in that case, it is the Mullahs that have the fool proof plan!
However my guess is that none of it goes according to plan - and hence the vast amount of prophecy about these events will come to pass - inevitably! Quoting: Anonymous Coward 472598
Don't get me wrong, I wasn't attacking you or anything. I'm just saying that Russia and China can't just sit there idly while the US is saying "anything happens to us, we're gonna nuke you." That's way, way, way too much risk. They'd have to neutralize the threat or face a strong probability of being obliterated abruptly.
A minor correction: I think you're giving too much credit to the Mullahs. They're not micromanaging the countries affairs. SAVAK is in charge of coming up with and handling clandestine intelligence and security measures, for instance. Just as Bush wasn't on the battlefield directly commanding the tanks as they began their invasion of Iraq, or standing on a carrier deck barking out instructions to the pilots as they lined up for the catapult - the Mullahs don't directly control the military or related services.
If you recall, about a year ago the Bush and Cheney went to the DoD and told them to prepare to attack Iran and to do so on their order. The DoD outright rejected that instruction, due to it being ill thought and the threat that carrying out that order would impose. Or during Vietnam, it's said that Nixon ordered the US military to load strategic nuclear missiles onto its aircraft and deploy them against the NVA. Kissinger refused to give consent and gathered support for which to intervene. I'm unsure if the second example is fact, but co-leaders and military commanders disobey the chain of command frequently, and it's not a new phenomenon. There's always been mutiny, rogues, refusal to obey orders, and so forth.
But I digress. My point was that the Mullahs don't have absolute control, and that these plans and initiatives aren't all a result of their self-perceived collective genius. The Mullahs didn't create a "fool proof plan," the Mullahs are religious experts. It was the chiefs and experts of the military and related services who devised the plans, who have been orchestrating the preparedness.
AIM:kits56fa2 |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 437732
7/24/2008 10:57 AM | | Re: IRAN: A signal the mullah regime may be ready to fold on the nuke issue | Quote |
And this is all to happen if America engages Iran? I think you've forgotten that the US has an unrivalled capacity to strike it's enemies, or respond to attacks - not to break up your rather vivid fantasies of the destruction of America.,
Sorry Dude, your theory is colorful, but completely absurd..
Tell that to the 4000+ dead yanks from Iraq!
4000 soldiers killed in a war is one thing - the destruction of America is quite another..
Silliness.. Quoting: Grizzled Old Goat
Has the warmongering GOG ever even CONSIDERED joining the Army?
4,000 (4,100+, actually) have died in Bushwar. Died to make GOG happy.
Has GOG ever pondered the thought of signing up to take one of those dead Americans places on the battle line?
Or would he rather just fight to the last drop of somebody else's blood.
The answer, friends, is obvious.
Posting silly cartoons on the interent all day is a lot safer, I suppose.
GOG is just another yellow bellied scumbag, like Bush and Cheney, who get off on making other people die. |
| Grizzled Old Goat
Get off my land..
User ID: 472730
7/24/2008 11:18 AM
| | Re: IRAN: A signal the mullah regime may be ready to fold on the nuke issue | Quote |
And this is all to happen if America engages Iran? I think you've forgotten that the US has an unrivalled capacity to strike it's enemies, or respond to attacks - not to break up your rather vivid fantasies of the destruction of America.,
Sorry Dude, your theory is colorful, but completely absurd..
Tell that to the 4000+ dead yanks from Iraq!
4000 soldiers killed in a war is one thing - the destruction of America is quite another..
Silliness..
Has the warmongering GOG ever even CONSIDERED joining the Army?
4,000 (4,100+, actually) have died in Bushwar. Died to make GOG happy. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 437732
Don't you ever get tired of being such a drooling retard? Are you a yellow-bellied warmonger because you support the mullahs - who send innocent, brainwashed dupes to blow themselves up to satisfy the mullah's lust for jewish blood? Maybe you support them because YOU love to see jewish blood spilled too?
IMBECILE
I've noticed that everyone who is for abortion has already been born.
Ronald Reagan |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 376260
7/24/2008 11:22 AM | | Re: IRAN: A signal the mullah regime may be ready to fold on the nuke issue | Quote |
Fuck you grizzeled old cunt..
You Satan worshiping tal MUD munching turd from the sinagog of Satan. |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 472598
7/24/2008 12:10 PM | | Re: IRAN: A signal the mullah regime may be ready to fold on the nuke issue | Quote |
But I digress. My point was that the Mullahs don't have absolute control, and that these plans and initiatives aren't all a result of their self-perceived collective genius. The Mullahs didn't create a "fool proof plan," the Mullahs are religious experts. It was the chiefs and experts of the military and related services who devised the plans, who have been orchestrating the preparedness. Quoting: kits
I think the Mullahs have been very carefull to establish a core of troops who can be utterly relied on:
From the Desert to the Laboratory: Ahmadinejad’s “Second Revolution”
Today, the Basiji are present in Iran in every town, every neighborhood and every mosque. Basiji groups are divided into paramilitary units and “special” units. They fall under the direction of the Supreme Leader Ali Khamenei and are sworn to absolute loyalty toward him. The million strong army of the Basiji is recruited from the more conservative and impoverished parts of the population, which profit from the Basiji social programs. Since 1998, the Basiji have been deployed, above all, as a “vice squad” and their special units have been used as shock troops against opposition forces – as in both 1999 and 2003, for instance, during the suppression of the student movement.
In the summer 2005 Presidential elections, the urban middle classes voted for Rafsanjani. Ahmadinejad came to power as the candidate of the Basiji. His “second revolution”[28] aims to eradicate corruption and eliminate western influences from Iranian society. It is directed, in particular, against those sections of Iranian youth who during the Presidency of Khatami enjoyed a taste of individual freedoms. In this revolution, the Basiji are expected to play the role of a sort of Iranian SA.
Since the Presidential elections, the influence of the Basiji has continuously grown. At the end of July 2005, the movement announced plans to increase its membership from 10 million to 15 million by 2010. The “special units” are supposed to comprise some 150,000 persons by then. Accordingly, the budget for the Basiji movement has been considerably augmented.[29] Furthermore, the Basiji have received new powers in their function as an unofficial division of the police. What this unofficial function means in practice was made clear in February 2006 when the Basiji attacked the leader of the striking bus drivers union, Massoud Osanlou. They held Osanlou prisoner in his apartment and they cut off the tip of his tongue, in order to convince him to keep quiet.[30] No member of the Basij need fear being held responsible for such acts of terror before a court of law.
The highpoint of this new offensive was reached with the “Basiji Week” in November 2005. Some nine million people, 12% of Iran’s population of 70 million, came out to demonstrate. Barely noticed by the western media, this mobilization attests to Ahmadinejad’s determination to impose his “second revolution” at all costs against the internal opposition. This “revolution” shows clearly fascistic traits and is meant to extinguish the first sparks of freedom in Iran. And what has the West done to support the forces of freedom in Iran? Up until now, very little. The Europeans in particular have given priority to their commercial interests over the defense of human rights.
The second function of the Basiji is to provide mass publicity for martyrdom. There is no “truth commission” in Iran to investigate the state-planned collective suicide that took place from 1980 to 1988. Instead, every Iranian is taught from childhood the virtues of martyrdom. Everyone knows the name of Hossein Fahmideh, who in 1982, as a 13-year-old boy, blew himself up in front of an Iraqi tank. His image accompanies Iranians throughout their day: whether on postage stamps or the currency. If you hold up a 500 Rial bill to the light, it is his face that you will see in the watermark. The self-destruction of Hossein Fahmideh is depicted as a model of profound faith by the Iranian media. It has been the subject, for instance, of both an animated film and an episode of the TV series “Children of Paradise”.[31] As a symbol of their readiness to die for the Revolution, Basiji groups wear white funeral shrouds over their uniforms during public appearances.
During this year’s Ashura Festival, school classes were again taken on excursions to a “Martyrs Cemetery”. “They wear headbands painted with the name Hussein,” The New York Times reported, “and march beneath banners that read: ‘Remembering the Martyrs today is as important as becoming a Martyr’ and ‘The Nation for whom Martyrdom means happiness, will always be Victorious.’”[32] Since 2004, the mobilization of Iranians for suicide brigades has intensified, with recruits being trained for foreign missions. Thus, a special military unit has been created bearing the name the “Commando of Voluntary Martyrs”. According to its own statistics, this commando has so far recruited some 52,000 Iranians to the suicidal cause. It aims to form a “Martyrdom Unit” in every Iranian province. “The enemy is afraid that this culture will develop into a global culture,” boasts the leader of the commando, Mohammadresa Jafari.[33] The fervor for death as “global culture”? Pure delirium as the paradigm of Islam?
Of course, the numerous Iranians who admire Western lifestyles would reject such an imputation, as would the majority of Muslims throughout the world. But here too, the West has failed. Instead of condemning suicide bombing without exception as a crime against humanity and pushing for a United Nations resolution to this effect, western reactions have in this connection as well been marked by opportunism. The international condemnation of suicide terror is, however, an essential condition for the isolation of Iran.
In the context of the Iranian nuclear program, the Basiji cult of self-destruction amounts to a lit fuse. Even just a brief look at the Iranian Constitution makes clear that there can be no question of Iran limiting its program to peaceful ends. Article 151 lays down on the authority of the Quran: “Prepare against them whatever force you are able to muster, and horses ready for battle, striking fear into God’s enemy and your enemy.”
Nowadays, Basiji are sent not into the desert, but rather into the laboratory. Basiji students are encouraged to enroll in technical-scientific disciplines. According to a spokesperson for the Revolutionary Guard, the aim is to use the “technical factor” in order to augment “national security”.[34] But what is the implication of atomic weapons in the hands of those who interpret death in the battle field as a spiritual triumph?
In December 2001, then Iranian President Hashemi Rafsanjani broached this question. He explained that “the use of even one nuclear bomb inside Israel will destroy everything”. On the other hand, even in the case of a nuclear response on the part of Israel, it “will only harm the Islamic world. It is not irrational to contemplate such an eventuality.”[35] Rafsanjani thus spelled out the terms of a macabre cost-benefit analysis. It will not be possible to destroy Israel without suffering damage in turn. But for Islam the level of damage that Israel’s nuclear response could inflict is, nonetheless, bearable. Some hundred thousand or so additional martyrs for Islam – the price is not to high to pay.
Rafsanjani’s counting on a hundred thousand deaths might seem on first glance like a worst-case scenario. But it is not. For Rafsanjani is a representative of the “pragmatic” wing of the Iranian Revolution. In contrast to the apocalyptic wing of the Revolutionary Guard, who in 1988 wanted to pursue the war against Iraq no matter the costs, the “pragmatists” are concerned that any war should have a “worthwhile” outcome. What atomic weapons could mean in the hands of the “apocalyptic” faction is virtually unimaginable.
Ahmadinejad, however, is clearly predisposed toward apocalyptic thinking. The linchpin of his politics is the myth of the Hidden Imam. In September 2005, he concluded his first speech before the United Nations by imploring God to bring about the return of the Twelfth Imam. He finances a research institute in Tehran whose sole purpose is to study and, if possible, accelerate the coming of the Imam. “The most important task of our Revolution is to prepare the way for the return of the Twelfth Imam,” he stressed at a theology conference in November 2005.[36]
A politics pursued in alliance with a supernatural force necessarily becomes unpredictable. Why should an Iranian President take into account the reality principle when his assumption is that in three or four years the Savior will be taking over the controls in any case? In expecting the advent of the Messiah, who would be prepared for compromise? In any case, up to now Ahmadinejad has kept on his course toward confrontation with evident pleasure.
The West has been declared the enemy and Western music – from Mozart to Madonna – banned from the airwaves. With his threats against Israel’s existence, the option of a new epochal crime against Jews has been elevated to government policy. Inasmuch as Ahmadinejad declares the Twelfth Imam a reality, but the Holocaust a myth, he takes his leave from the international community known as the “United Nations.” Whoever ridicules Auschwitz as a myth, must thereby transform Jews into the universal enemy, who for filthy Mammon has deceived humanity for 60 years and who controls the world’s media and universities.
Ahmadinejad’s anti-Semitism bears resemblance to that of the Nazis, even if he replaces the term “Jew” by “Zionist”: the Zionists fabricated the Danish Muhammad cartoons; the Zionists brought about the attacks on Shia holy places in Iraq; the Zionists have for sixty years now blackmailed “all western governments”; the Zionists have enslaved the German government.[37]
It would be an error to dismiss Ahmadinejad as a crank. Though his goals may be demented, he pursues them with obvious intelligence. He casts himself in the role of the global populist. His speeches address the “oppressed” throughout the world. He cultivates good relations with Fidel Castro and Venezuela’s President Hugo Chávez, and he has announced his intention to participate in the summit of non-aligned states in September 2006 in Havana.[38]
Iran’s conduct of its war with Iraq between 1980 and 1988 provided a glimpse of things to come. What began with the clearing of mine fields by human detonators has become in the form of suicide bombing the most powerful weapon of the Islamist movement worldwide. The kitschy shows in the desert, with hired actors in the role of the Hidden Imam, have evolved into a showdown between a zealous Iranian President and the western world. The Basij who once upon a time wandered the desert armed only with a walking stick is today working as a chemist in a uranium enrichment facility.
Our look back at the history of the Basiji shows us that the greatest monstrosities have to be expected as a matter of course from the current Iranian regime. Today, the political isolation of Iran is a necessity. So long as the Iranian leadership refuses to recognize the reality and tragedy of the Holocaust, Iran’s membership in the UN should be suspended.
(taken from a much longer article about the Basiji)
[link to www.matthiaskuentzel.de] |
| JimmyK
User ID: 361847
7/24/2008 12:54 PM | | Re: IRAN: A signal the mullah regime may be ready to fold on the nuke issue | Quote |
I couldn't disagree more. Jews being money obsessed is one of the key group of stereotypes that have contributed to systematic, savage racism (for lack of a better word - snork) and genocide throughout history. Quoting: Grizzled Old Goat
Greetings Gog,
I really don't want to get in the middle of this discussion, but I have always held that the "obsession" as you call it stems more from teaching and belifes.
We know for instance the Saducees rejected the thought of an afterlife. Having done so, they felt their approval of God could be seen in the earthly blessings bestowed on them.
It is a facinating study and worth a look.
Regards
JimmyK |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 465868
7/24/2008 1:02 PM | | Re: IRAN: A signal the mullah regime may be ready to fold on the nuke issue | Quote |
And this is all to happen if America engages Iran? I think you've forgotten that the US has an unrivalled capacity to strike it's enemies, or respond to attacks - not to break up your rather vivid fantasies of the destruction of America.,
Sorry Dude, your theory is colorful, but completely absurd..
Tell that to the 4000+ dead yanks from Iraq!
4000 soldiers killed in a war is one thing - the destruction of America is quite another..
Silliness.. Quoting: Grizzled Old Goat
In a war?
Bush declares "End of major combat operations" (May 2003)
On 1 May 2003, Bush landed on the aircraft carrier USS Abraham Lincoln, in a Lockheed S-3 Viking, where he gave a speech announcing the end of major combat operations in the Iraq war. Bush's landing was criticized by opponents as an overly theatrical and expensive stunt. Clearly visible in the background was a banner stating "Mission Accomplished." The banner, made by White House staff and supplied by request of the U.S. Navy,[88] was criticized as premature - especially as sectarian violence and American casualties have continued to increase since the official end of hostilities. The White House subsequently released a statement that the sign and Bush's visit referred to the initial invasion of Iraq and disputing the claim of theatrics. The speech itself noted: "We have difficult work to do in Iraq. We are bringing order to parts of that country that remain dangerous."
You truly are a waste of skin goat shagger... |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 424156
7/24/2008 3:53 PM | | Re: IRAN: A signal the mullah regime may be ready to fold on the nuke issue | Quote |
 PERHAPS IT MEANS: A MAN WITH NO HISTORY OF STARTING WARS!! WISHED NOT TO ASSOCIATE WITH THOSE WHO BELEIVE THAT MASS MURDER IS ACCEPTABLE!! |
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