Mel Tappan wrote the definitive work. Many people think "things have changed and weapons evolved". Not so much, but let us discuss Tappan's premises, or read hear/here and hopefully gain some perspective.
Basic premise of Tappan's work was Guns are Essential Tools for comfortable living in uncertain times. He saw Two Categories; Working and Defensive weaponry. Working guns are those for hunting, precision shooting, pest control, and flexible response to non-critical situations. Defensive weapons are those which were designed and made for modern fighting conditions, when you may have to fire several hundred rounds in a hurry. Only military-type weapons stand up to the requirements of Defensive fighting use. Precision and other sporting arms are not capable of fast reload for sustained rates of fire and their barrels are not constructed to tolerate the heat generated and remain accurate.
I first read Tappan's book in 1983. It is a great read for all the discussion of every allied topic imagineable. He even talks of improvised weapons like the Bolo, Atlatl, slingshots, and Archery gear.
Having weapons of any sort is certainly a plus these days. Having ammunition for them in sufficient quantity is also a huge factor in your peace of mind equation. Costs and availabiity are issues which are making this more IFFY for lots of folk.
I will discuss what I know and have worked with. A person with only a few basic weapons can be as well-prepared as the ones who choose to have a Mel Tappan Dream Setup. The Dream Setup was the right tool in every category for almost every possibility. Great if you live in the remote Rockies but a bit much to lug around if you're bugging out from Grosse Pointe to the Upper Peninsula.
Share your thoughts as we go along. Hopefully, we don't have to convince others of why they must adopt our views and tools.
The ideal semi-auto pistol will be open to much contention as will hideout/defensive weapons. Having one you know how to use, hit with, and have spare parts for will outweigh other considertions. Having good quality, durable, and accurate weapons with versatile sighting systems and flexible ammunition will enable good results. Such will by my goal in this discussion to impart information you can rely on with good results...
Semi Auto:Kimber .45acp
Pump Riot Shotgun: Winchester 1300 Defender
Semi Auto rifle:AR15sp1- although I am not happy with it.
Bolt Poor Mans Sniper Rifle: Browning Medallion .375H&H, Leopold 4.5x14 40mm
Snake Gun: Stevens 12 Gauge SxS couch gun
.22 plinking/varmit: Browning Target .22 pistol, Ruger 10/22 rifle
Other various tools to get the job done and have fun.
YMMV. FWIW. Handguns are a skill; shotguns an art; rifles a science.
_____________________________________
Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on whats for dinner.
Disarmament is the precursor to Genocide.
Better to take action now rather than chances later. Your choice.
oh sure, start a f*cking gun thread as i have to leave for work
damnit
i will be bumping this at midnight so there better be lots of good stuff to read When peaceful revolution becomes impossible, violent revolution becomes inevitable.
"Hard pressed on my right. My center is yielding. Impossible to maneuver. Situation excellent. I am attacking."
oh sure, start a f*cking gun thread as i have to leave for work
damnit
i will be bumping this at midnight so there better be lots of good stuff to read
Quoting: malu
LOL, Have fun at work Malu. I am at work too, drats.... Handguns are a skill; shotguns an art; rifles a science.
_____________________________________
Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on whats for dinner.
Disarmament is the precursor to Genocide.
Better to take action now rather than chances later. Your choice.
Evil Twin Senior Forum Moderator User ID: 473771 7/26/2008 1:42 PM
Everyone should have a .22 rifle, a shotgun, and a (preferably military caliber) rifle.
Quoting: Evil Twin
Amen to that. Let us pray brethren. Handguns are a skill; shotguns an art; rifles a science.
_____________________________________
Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on whats for dinner.
Disarmament is the precursor to Genocide.
Better to take action now rather than chances later. Your choice.
The most basic working gun is chambered for the .22 Long Rifle cartridge. Pistols are handy, rifles are easier to shoot with precision, develop greater velocity, and are less expensive (usually). The .22LR is your basic chore gun, shooting at pests, stray dogs, feral cats, racoons and possums, and will take a duck or goose if you find one out on your pond or stock tank.
.22Long Rifle ammunition comes in cheap 550rd boxes for commodity quality ammo at WallyWorld, or in $10/50 boxes for Ely Match ammo. In between there is much to be considered. A semi-auto weapon will not handle/function reliably with other ammunition, but a revolver, lever action, or tube fed bolt action will. Being able to use .22 Short, Long, CB & BB caps, ratshot, and the Aguilla specialty rounds as well as CCI Stingers and other "hyper velocity" rounds gives you a lot of versatility. The semi-auto will only feed .22LR in self-loading mode, but you can fire other .22 rds (except the .22 Winchester Magnum or older obsolete magnums, which CANNOT be fired), other than singly. Might be all you need, single loading; but it is pretty hard to do with a scoped rifle, like the Ruger 10/22.
Fun to have a good variety of weapons. A Marlin 39 lever rifle loaded with .22 Shorts will hold about 30rds. Great for shooting starlings or small rats, or gallery shooting in your basement. A revolver will handle anything you can seat in its chamber. A chamber full of rat shot will kill small snakes, and other pests with fast repeat shots. A .22 pistol (the proper name for a semi-auto) could be loaded with one shot ctg in the chamber and a mag of Long Rifle as backup. CCI shot ctgs might feed well from your pistol's magazine, they just won't actuate the slide which means no semi from your semi-auto; but pulling back the slide and manually loading might not be a real hardship.
When using various ammunition types, you should always test your sight settings to know that a .22short will be, for example, 6 inches low at 20ft. Some bullets from various types of ammunition will shoot to the same point of aim, but it is rare. So you test your weapon with the various ammo you intend to use.
BTW I am shopping for a .177 cal pellet gun under 300 bucks so I can practice daily in my backyard. It's gotta be very accurate. I am looking at some Gamo's and Beeman's. Anyone got a specific model in mind? Handguns are a skill; shotguns an art; rifles a science.
_____________________________________
Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on whats for dinner.
Disarmament is the precursor to Genocide.
Better to take action now rather than chances later. Your choice.
Evil Twin Senior Forum Moderator User ID: 473771 7/26/2008 1:49 PM
BTW I am shopping for a .177 cal pellet gun under 300 bucks so I can practice daily in my backyard. It's gotta be very accurate. I am looking at some Gamo's and Beeman's. Anyone got a specific model in mind?
Quoting: Omega
we picked up some from a tool sale, where the bring a semi into town and sell cheap, chinese made pellet rifles for $20, perfect for beer cans
i would get a gamo or benjiman sheridan pump When peaceful revolution becomes impossible, violent revolution becomes inevitable.
"Hard pressed on my right. My center is yielding. Impossible to maneuver. Situation excellent. I am attacking."
Underground_Dude User ID: 436349 7/26/2008 1:53 PM
Thanks for starting gun threads when I come in for lunch!
Survival guns? What is a survival gun?
Is that you can have only one what do you want?
If that's the case I want my Drilling two 12 gauge shotgun barrels with a 30-06 on top.
OR
The Savage camper special 20gauge with 22 long rifle on top.
But why limit myself in reality it's which ever one I pick from the gun room to do the job.
Evil Twin Senior Forum Moderator User ID: 473771 7/26/2008 1:55 PM
Everyone should have a .22 rifle, a shotgun, and a (preferably military caliber) rifle.
and a healthy dose of attitude :)
good lord, you didn't mention a handgun
blasphemy!
Quoting: malu
Hehe, well, that goes without saying. I'm like Omega, Lester, and you, I prefer a .45 acp 1911 for a fighting gun.
I do have a soft spot for .357 mag revolvers for 'woods gun' too.
LMAO....In my earlier days I would preach from the pulpit in camo's and a .45 strapped to my hip and yell at the top of my lungs. Thats living, lemme tell ya....
KIDDING.....
But there is....The Reverend 12 Gauge,lol.... Handguns are a skill; shotguns an art; rifles a science.
_____________________________________
Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on whats for dinner.
Disarmament is the precursor to Genocide.
Better to take action now rather than chances later. Your choice.
Never heard of the guys, lemme check it out, and thanks Malu!! Handguns are a skill; shotguns an art; rifles a science.
_____________________________________
Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on whats for dinner.
Disarmament is the precursor to Genocide.
Better to take action now rather than chances later. Your choice.
If that's the case I want my Drilling two 12 gauge shotgun barrels with a 30-06 on top.
Quoting: Underground_Dude 436349
That sounds interesting. Can you light off all three barrels at once?
I double dawg dare ya,lol.... Handguns are a skill; shotguns an art; rifles a science.
_____________________________________
Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on whats for dinner.
Disarmament is the precursor to Genocide.
Better to take action now rather than chances later. Your choice.
Thanks for starting gun threads when I come in for lunch!
Survival guns? What is a survival gun?
Is that you can have only one what do you want?
If that's the case I want my Drilling two 12 gauge shotgun barrels with a 30-06 on top.
OR
The Savage camper special 20gauge with 22 long rifle on top.
But why limit myself in reality it's which ever one I pick from the gun room to do the job.
Quoting: Underground_Dude 436349
damn you
two days in a row!
lmao
have fun guys! i ho , i ho When peaceful revolution becomes impossible, violent revolution becomes inevitable.
"Hard pressed on my right. My center is yielding. Impossible to maneuver. Situation excellent. I am attacking."
Sights, along with good trigger pull, are the most critical aspect of any firearm. A .22 rifle will definitely benefit from addition of a scopesight. The scope allows many benefits that basic iron sights do not, can be rugged and depended upon.
A quality .22LR rifle can benefit from a quality riflescope like Leupold, Weaver, Redfield, Nikon, Burris, Bushnell etc. Mount and scope rings are very important. With a lightweight scope on .22 tip off type rail, the Weaver rings are very capable. Of course, if you setup your Ruger 10/22 with full custom barrel, stock and trigger; a Picatinny type rail and best tactical quality rings might not be too much for you to opt for. The Leupold parallax adjustable scopes with Extended Focus work great with precision .22LR rifles, but you're talking $350+ for the scope alone and $200 plus for mounts. Not like you need to spend that for a gun which will mainly keep gophers and birds from robbing your garden; but we still have choices...
The cheapy scopes are just that; not terribly reliable, but they do work. Just avoid the dinky 3/4" old Weaver and Tasco .22 scopes. A 1" scope or even 30mm tubed scope will serve on your .22 or maybe on another rifle later.
Should always have decent iron sights. Few rifles come with them. Williams, Redfield, and others have produced quality Aperture sight units. Your rifle might be drilled and tapped to accept one of these units. They are very strong and precise mechanisms, and give you better eye relief for more accuate sight alingnment and with varied apertures enable your eye to focus more clearly on your front sight, always a Good Thing.
With handguns, unless you will only use one brand of ammunition, you want a rear sight that is adjustable. No two brands of ammo shoot to the same point of aim. With adj sights, this is not an issue. With a fixed sight weapon, you may have to compensate or move your rear sight with a drift/punch and still your point of aim may need to be raised or lowered on your target. The best pistol sight is a U notch with a flat bottom, !_! and a tapered post front sight that fits the rear notch with a bit of light showing on either side when centered. These are called Patridge sights, not partridge, Pat-Ridge. Pretty hard to do much accurate shooting with short stubby sights that are rounded or otherwise imprecise.
Great tools and my RWS/Diana #34 is about equal to a .22rifle, very accurate, shoots 1000fps. A model 36 with upgrade stock and maybe it has aperture sight(?) is a fine weapon. 500 RWS pellets cost about $5. I got mine in the mail for about $130. Check the internet wholesalers. Natchez, MidSouth etc. I keep intending to put a scope on mine but haven't. RWS has a lifetime warranty.
Evil Twin Senior Forum Moderator User ID: 473771 7/26/2008 2:11 PM
Evil, those tech sights are very nice. I tossed them on my SKS and while I have other guns that are way more accurate or more "tactical" these sights make the SKS a pretty darn accurate rifle.
Great tools and my RWS/Diana #34 is about equal to a .22rifle, very accurate, shoots 1000fps. A model 36 with upgrade stock and maybe it has aperture sight(?) is a fine weapon. 500 RWS pellets cost about $5. I got mine in the mail for about $130. Check the internet wholesalers. Natchez, MidSouth etc. I keep intending to put a scope on mine but haven't. RWS has a lifetime warranty.
Quoting: Lester
Thanks Lester, I am going to check that out now..... Handguns are a skill; shotguns an art; rifles a science.
_____________________________________
Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on whats for dinner.
Disarmament is the precursor to Genocide.
Better to take action now rather than chances later. Your choice.
Precision shooting long range rifle iron sights or scope one eye.
Compat/Pistol shooting both eyes. Handguns are a skill; shotguns an art; rifles a science.
_____________________________________
Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on whats for dinner.
Disarmament is the precursor to Genocide.
Better to take action now rather than chances later. Your choice.
Anonymous Coward User ID: 473832 7/26/2008 2:25 PM
I guess I need to bring you to the compound and let Lady Marine teach that out of you! HAHAHAHA I think that would be so fun to watch!!! A Youtube classic for sure!!!!!!!!
Oh wait you haven't guessed the location yet have you?
Evil Twin Senior Forum Moderator User ID: 473771 7/26/2008 2:28 PM
I guess I need to bring you to the compound and let Lady Marine teach that out of you! HAHAHAHA I think that would be so fun to watch!!! A Youtube classic for sure!!!!!!!!
Oh wait you haven't guessed the location yet have you?
Quoting: Anonymous Coward 473832
LOL, nope, haven't guessed your location yet.
I have tried keeping both eyes open with a scope, but it always gives me a huge headache, like wearing glasses made for somebody with major astigmatism.
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