Survival Guns discussed

All I have to do is grab my vest and bandoliers out of the closet, fill my camelbak, put on my boots and RUN!! lmao

Just when I had run out of commentary....

First, bullets are the projectiles which are propelled down the barrel and into flight once the firing pin strikes the primer and the propellant is ignited. The entire round is a cartridge, not a bullet. The cartridge case is what might be salvaged for reloading.

The machine is what makes the "difference". A precision instrument can be very tough and capable. Norm Chandler, of Iron Brigade Armory, stated that their precision military sniper rifles have to be tough enough to hold accuracy and also take knocks in the field even if the rifle has to serve as a tent pole.

There are superb precision semi-auto rifles in production these days. Primarily on the Armalite Platform. Knights SR25, GA Precision, Armalite AR-10(T), JP Enterprises, Noveske, and many superb smaller operation gunsmiths as well. NRA F class and HighPower competitions are places these rifles are shot competitively at 600 & 1000yds. David Tubb won Camp Perry in the late 90s with a Knights SR25 rifle.

Reliability? Well sure, the troops would like to have a 500yd capable rifle, those who know how to shoot. The M4 carbine is a compromise, and neither the USMC nor the Army issue match ammunition to regular line troops. So, the M4 is a compromise, but damn accurate to 300-350yds with short barrel.

Nobody has really argued here that a shotgun is more effective or versatile than a rifle.

Certainly no one can prove the AK47 to be comparably accurate to the M4 or AR-15. SKS? Own one or two; it is your planning and implimentation that will determine your likelihood of thriving or suffering when the baloon goes up.

I find most AK/SKS guys embrace the russian technology because of the affordability of the weapons and ammunition, plus they buy into the legend that the AR is not "reliable". AK/SKS guys are willing to compromise big time in the accuracy dept to have that "come out of the mud firing" fantasy adding to their mojo. Maybe if you live in a swamp and will be snorkeling around playing SEAL, the AK/SKS is for you?

The ammunition is limited. Sure, the Khmer Rouge had no problems killing 2 million Cambodians, but how often will your adversary oblige by kneeling at your feet and closing their eyes as you press the trigger? How is that trigger pull anyway??? Can you keep 10rds inside a 3" circle at 200 or 300yds firing in 1 minute, 10 seconds? AKs are pretty notorious for poor accuracy. Of course they aren't meant to be precision instruments.

Yet, it all depends on what you envision in your mode of survivalism. The bullet diameter of the AK and SKS is .310. USA and NATO 7.62 diameter is .308. You could reload any Boxer primed cases with .308 bullets but they would not hold the rifling so they would be terribly inaccurate.

The ammunition is limited. While the case is the basis for several superb Benchrest Cartridges, the power and bullet weight is much below the basic .30-30Win which is about the mildest .30cal ctg in common use in America.

Steel cased cartridge cases cannot be reloaded.
Berdan primed cases are not practical to reload, but can be; IF you have the special depriming tool and find a source for Berdan primers. Years ago I found some Berdan primers at The Old Western Scrounger. RWS, great product. PITA to deprime.

The survivalist is different from a combatant.
The survivalist is not looking to get into the fray. Rather fighting is something to be avoided if possible. Best way to avoid the turmoil after the collapse might be to have relocated to a somewhat remote location and be at good distance from cities and suburbs.

I have no use for any weapon that is not up to my standards of accuracy, power, and versatility. There are a number of these about, fortunately. I have discussed the basic ones in this thread.

Just when I had run out of commentary....

First, bullets are the projectiles which are propelled down the barrel and into flight once the firing pin strikes the primer and the propellant is ignited. The entire round is a cartridge, not a bullet. The cartridge case is what might be salvaged for reloading.

The machine is what makes the "difference". A precision instrument can be very tough and capable. Norm Chandler, of Iron Brigade Armory, stated that their precision military sniper rifles have to be tough enough to hold accuracy and also take knocks in the field even if the rifle has to serve as a tent pole.

There are superb precision semi-auto rifles in production these days. Primarily on the Armalite Platform. Knights SR25, GA Precision, Armalite AR-10(T), JP Enterprises, Noveske, and many superb smaller operation gunsmiths as well. NRA F class and HighPower competitions are places these rifles are shot competitively at 600 & 1000yds. David Tubb won Camp Perry in the late 90s with a Knights SR25 rifle.

Reliability? Well sure, the troops would like to have a 500yd capable rifle, those who know how to shoot. The M4 carbine is a compromise, and neither the USMC nor the Army issue match ammunition to regular line troops. So, the M4 is a compromise, but damn accurate to 300-350yds with short barrel.

mostly bullshit. go back to school, or the range.

Nobody has really argued here that a shotgun is more effective or versatile than a rifle.

Certainly no one can prove the AK47 to be comparably accurate to the M4 or AR-15. SKS? Own one or two; it is your planning and implimentation that will determine your likelihood of thriving or suffering when the baloon goes up.

I find most AK/SKS guys embrace the russian technology because of the affordability of the weapons and ammunition, plus they buy into the legend that the AR is not "reliable". AK/SKS guys are willing to compromise big time in the accuracy dept to have that "come out of the mud firing" fantasy adding to their mojo. Maybe if you live in a swamp and will be snorkeling around playing SEAL, the AK/SKS is for you?

The ammunition is limited. Sure, the Khmer Rouge had no problems killing 2 million Cambodians, but how often will your adversary oblige by kneeling at your feet and closing their eyes as you press the trigger? How is that trigger pull anyway??? Can you keep 10rds inside a 3" circle at 200 or 300yds firing in 1 minute, 10 seconds? AKs are pretty notorious for poor accuracy. Of course they aren't meant to be precision instruments.

Yet, it all depends on what you envision in your mode of survivalism. The bullet diameter of the AK and SKS is .310. USA and NATO 7.62 diameter is .308. You could reload any Boxer primed cases with .308 bullets but they would not hold the rifling so they would be terribly inaccurate.

The ammunition is limited. While the case is the basis for several superb Benchrest Cartridges, the power and bullet weight is much below the basic .30-30Win which is about the mildest .30cal ctg in common use in America.

Steel cased cartridge cases cannot be reloaded.
Berdan primed cases are not practical to reload, but can be; IF you have the special depriming tool and find a source for Berdan primers. Years ago I found some Berdan primers at The Old Western Scrounger. RWS, great product. PITA to deprime.

The survivalist is different from a combatant.
The survivalist is not looking to get into the fray. Rather fighting is something to be avoided if possible. Best way to avoid the turmoil after the collapse might be to have relocated to a somewhat remote location and be at good distance from cities and suburbs.

I have no use for any weapon that is not up to my standards of accuracy, power, and versatility. There are a number of these about, fortunately. I have discussed the basic ones in this thread.

Just when I had run out of commentary....

First, bullets are the projectiles which are propelled down the barrel and into flight once the firing pin strikes the primer and the propellant is ignited. The entire round is a cartridge, not a bullet. The cartridge case is what might be salvaged for reloading.



yes


The machine is what makes the "difference". A precision instrument can be very tough and capable. Norm Chandler, of Iron Brigade Armory, stated that their precision military sniper rifles have to be tough enough to hold accuracy and also take knocks in the field even if the rifle has to serve as a tent pole.



yes


There are superb precision semi-auto rifles in production these days. Primarily on the Armalite Platform. Knights SR25, GA Precision, Armalite AR-10(T), JP Enterprises, Noveske, and many superb smaller operation gunsmiths as well. NRA F class and HighPower competitions are places
these rifles are shot competitively at 600 & 1000yds. David Tubb won Camp Perry in the late 90s with a Knights SR25 rifle.

no



Reliability? Well sure, the troops would like to have a 500yd capable rifle, those who know how to shoot. The M4 carbine is a compromise, and neither the USMC nor the Army issue match ammunition to regular line troops. So, the M4 is a compromise, but damn accurate to 300-350yds with short barrel.

m's suck


Nobody has really argued here that a shotgun is more effective or versatile than a rifle.

true. i can get into the pros and cons later.


no one can prove the AK47 to be comparably accurate to the M4 or AR-15. SKS? Own one or two; it is your planning and implimentation that will determine your likelihood of thriving or suffering when the baloon goes up.

no. it has been proven on the battle field, and in private use, time and time agian. google.


I find most AK/SKS guys embrace the russian technology because of the affordability of the weapons and ammunition, plus they buy into the legend that the AR is not "reliable". AK/SKS guys are willing to compromise big time in the accuracy dept to have that "come out of the mud firing" fantasy adding to their mojo. Maybe if you live in a swamp and will be snorkeling around playing SEAL, the AK/SKS is for you?

yes, most "reliable" that is the word. "survival"


The ammunition is limited. Sure, the Khmer Rouge had no problems killing 2 million Cambodians, but how often will your adversary oblige by kneeling at your feet and closing their eyes as you press the trigger? How is that trigger pull anyway??? Can you keep 10rds inside a 3" circle at 200 or 300yds firing in 1 minute, 10 seconds? AKs are pretty notorious for poor accuracy.


not true. google, agian.

Of course they aren't meant to be precision instruments.

Yet, it all depends on what you envision in your mode of survivalism. The bullet diameter of the AK and SKS is .310./

no 7.62



USA and NATO 7.62 diameter is .308. You could reload any Boxer primed cases with .308 bullets but they would not hold the rifling so they would be terribly inaccurate.

The ammunition is limited. While the case is the basis for several superb Benchrest Cartridges, the power and bullet weight is much below the basic .30-30Win which is about the mildest .30cal ctg in common use in America.


Steel cased cartridge cases cannot be reloaded.
Berdan primed cases are not practical to reload, but can be; IF you have the special depriming tool and find a source for Berdan primers. Years ago I found some Berdan primers at The Old Western Scrounger. RWS, great product. PITA to deprime.

not the same ........check nato specs

The survivalist is different from a combatant.
The survivalist is not looking to get into the fray. Rather fighting is something to be avoided if possible. Best way to avoid the turmoil after the collapse might be to have relocated to a somewhat remote location and be at good distance from cities and suburbs.

I have no use for any weapon that is not up to my standards of accuracy, power, and versatility. There are a number of these about, fortunately. I have discussed the basic ones in this thread.


Precisely the reason why I went with a few Lee Enfield MK4 .303 bolt guns to pass around Lester.

this will work too, can't disagree.

I have never been a AK or SKS guy, IMHO if you are going to go through the trouble to possibly shoot someone, might as well do it from afar as possible so facilitate your escape. I like these weapons, cheap, reliable, indestructible and reasonably accurate, even though the rear sight is a little funky. FWIW, YMMV....

here is my setup. tell my if you have any diagreements, or suggestions:

(from the ground up)


s&w 44 right ankle

gerber dagger left ankle


ruger super rehawk .454 casull left thigh

cold steel trail master bowie right thigh

two walther p99 s&w under shoulders

cold steel tanto over shoulder

hk ump .40 s&w back

saiga 12 over back.

i'm still thinking of consolidating the right ankle gun to .40 to match the ump and the p99's, i mean, i can't carry around but so many bullet's........ if i didn't clarify that before, the ump and the p99's are .40 s&w ammo, hj rounds

i'm still thinking of consolidating the right ankle gun to .40 to match the ump and the p99's, i mean, i can't carry around but so many bullet's........ if i didn't clarify that before, the ump and the p99's are .40 s&w ammo, hj rounds



i would

although there is an argument for having several calibers

My AC friend, and we are all friends here...

Check a loading manual. The 7.62x39 cartridge takes a .310 diameter bullet. About the heaviest bullet for handloading, aside from some premium hunting rounds, is 124gr and this has a muzzle velocity of about 2250fps; maybe 2300?

Choose whatever you will for your defense and working guns. Ballister Molina? I recall those being sold in the early 60s and they are not a true 1911 clone. There were some Argentinian 1911s for $25/45 per; before the GCA68 went into effect. As a kid, I loved to look at the adds in the American Rifleman. I think the Springfield WWII pistol is a great entry level 1911. Lots of deals at pawnshops these days I am sure.

I think the M4 is a very valid all-around weapon whose short barrel limits distance engagements. If you had only one weapon, it would be a good choice becuase it is easy to handle and is short enough to use inside a house and accurate enough to dispatch enemy out to 350yds, maybe more with 75gr match ammunition. A 14.5" Noveske barrel in BATF legal configuration, with a Leupold SPR scope is very versatile. Stainless, match quality heavy contour barrel with 1:7 twist can do the job. The gas system is carbine length, not M4 length so there is some enhanced operation there. The Wylde chamber is a match quality compromise between 5.56 and .223Rem dimensions. Stainless is more conducive to accuracy than chrome-lined barrel stock; generally.

Probably the short Noveske barreled upper is about the most flexible upper design going. With the Leupold MK4 SPR scope you have great fast deployment optics.

There is no decent scope mount solution for any AK/SKS that I know of.

My needs are not for anything like a battlefield. If my area turns into a battlefield I am just screwed. Probably not going to happen. We all pay our money and take our chances... Good luck!

here is my setup. tell my if you have any diagreements, or suggestions:

(from the ground up)


s&w 44 right ankle

gerber dagger left ankle


ruger super rehawk .454 casull left thigh

cold steel trail master bowie right thigh

two walther p99 s&w under shoulders

cold steel tanto over shoulder

hk ump .40 s&w back

saiga 12 over back.

oops, sorry on the .308 vs 7.62 i know better. it is the same

Precisely the reason why I went with a few Lee Enfield MK4 .303 bolt guns to pass around Lester. I have never been a AK or SKS guy, IMHO if you are going to go through the trouble to possibly shoot someone, might as well do it from afar as possible so facilitate your escape. I like these weapons, cheap, reliable, indestructible and reasonably accurate, even though the rear sight is a little funky. FWIW, YMMV....

but the premise is the same.....in a "tshtf" situation, nato rounds are going to be way more available than other stuff, say, .454 Casull. so i am sticking with machines that can cycle it.