| | | Page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19 | Survival Guns discussed
| UD
User ID: 473832
7/26/2008 2:28 PM | | Re: Survival Guns discussed | Quote |
How many here close one eye while shooting?
Precision shooting long range rifle iron sights or scope one eye.
Compat/Pistol shooting both eyes. Quoting: Omega
I could have two Youtube classics!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
| Omega
User ID: 340280
7/26/2008 2:36 PM | | Re: Survival Guns discussed | Quote |
How many here close one eye while shooting?
Precision shooting long range rifle iron sights or scope one eye.
Compat/Pistol shooting both eyes.
I could have two Youtube classics!!!!!!!!!!!!! Quoting: UD 473832
LOL. Perhaps. I'd be careful at extreme long ranges though bro-I still have the chops....
Handguns are a skill; shotguns an art; rifles a science.
_____________________________________
Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on whats for dinner.
Disarmament is the precursor to Genocide.
Better to take action now rather than chances later. Your choice. |
| UD
User ID: 471893
7/26/2008 2:40 PM | | Re: Survival Guns discussed | Quote |
How many here close one eye while shooting?
Precision shooting long range rifle iron sights or scope one eye.
Compat/Pistol shooting both eyes.
I could have two Youtube classics!!!!!!!!!!!!!
LOL. Perhaps. I'd be careful at extreme long ranges though bro-I still have the chops.... Quoting: Omega
Both eyes open whether it's iron or scoped at any range!
I can still feel the instructor smacking the back of my head! |
| Evil Twin  
Senior Forum Moderator
User ID: 473771
7/26/2008 2:42 PM
 | | Re: Survival Guns discussed | Quote |
I don't think I've told you guys...I jut registered for a two day Appleseed shoot. I think it's time for a refresher course, and these guy are getting a lot of praise lately, plus, it's damn cheap for a 2 day intensive training course.
[link to www.appleseedinfo.org]
To visualize the coming apocalypse, imagine, if you will, Oprah & Rosie O'Donnell wrestling for the last rib at an all-you can-eat Bar-B-Q... |
| UD
User ID: 471893
7/26/2008 2:46 PM | | Re: Survival Guns discussed | Quote |
HHHHMMMMM the cops just showed up guess what they all have shiny new full auto M4s!
I asked where they got them THE FEDS! WTF!!!!!!!!!!
In the last 48 hrs they've spent about 20 on the range!
B.O.B. said we should put a big iron gate at the mouth of the canyon. We all laughed now I'm wondering if he's right. |
| ZOSIME
User ID: 384163
7/26/2008 2:47 PM
 | | Re: Survival Guns discussed | Quote |
I would also include Archery weapons. silent but deadly |
| ZOSIME
User ID: 384163
7/26/2008 2:49 PM
| | Re: Survival Guns discussed | Quote |
How many here close one eye while shooting?
Precision shooting long range rifle iron sights or scope one eye.
Compat/Pistol shooting both eyes.
I could have two Youtube classics!!!!!!!!!!!!!
LOL. Perhaps. I'd be careful at extreme long ranges though bro-I still have the chops.... Quoting: Omega
myself I still prefer open sights I still have a accurate shot |
| Beingsouthern
Forum Moderator
User ID: 113248
7/26/2008 2:49 PM
 | | Re: Survival Guns discussed | Quote |
How many here close one eye while shooting? Quoting: UD 473832
Looks like a guy thread, but find all of this interesting.
We had a skeet machine/skeet thrower and used it often when practicing.
Also did a lot of plain ol target shootin.
I shoot with one closed...and I'm told it's the wrong eye.
Am right handed, and close the right eye.
I shouldn't be able to hit anything doing that...
But when I aim, I hit....almost always.
Not sure why that is... |
| Evil Twin
Senior Forum Moderator
User ID: 473771
7/26/2008 2:49 PM
| | Re: Survival Guns discussed | Quote |
HHHHMMMMM the cops just showed up guess what they all have shiny new full auto M4s!
I asked where they got them THE FEDS! WTF!!!!!!!!!!
In the last 48 hrs they've spent about 20 on the range!
B.O.B. said we should put a big iron gate at the mouth of the canyon. We all laughed now I'm wondering if he's right. Quoting: UD 471893
To visualize the coming apocalypse, imagine, if you will, Oprah & Rosie O'Donnell wrestling for the last rib at an all-you can-eat Bar-B-Q... |
| UD
User ID: 473846
7/26/2008 2:50 PM | | Re: Survival Guns discussed | Quote |
I don't think I've told you guys...I jut registered for a two day Appleseed shoot. I think it's time for a refresher course, and these guy are getting a lot of praise lately, plus, it's damn cheap for a 2 day intensive training course.
[ link to www.appleseedinfo.org]
I'd rather see Lady Marine have at you!
I can see it now you show up and she's throwing hay bales to the second story loft GEEE where did ET go! HAHAHAHA |
| Evil Twin
Senior Forum Moderator
User ID: 473771
7/26/2008 2:51 PM
| | Re: Survival Guns discussed | Quote |
How many here close one eye while shooting?
Looks like a guy thread, but find all of this interesting.
We had a skeet machine/skeet thrower and used it often when practicing.
Also did a lot of plain ol target shootin.
I shoot with one closed...and I'm told it's the wrong eye.
Am right handed, and close the right eye.
I shouldn't be able to hit anything doing that...
But when I aim, I hit....almost always.
Not sure why that is... Quoting: Beingsouthern
Sounds like you are 'cross-eye dominant'.
Right hand, left eye
Most have to shoot both eyes open to overcome that
To visualize the coming apocalypse, imagine, if you will, Oprah & Rosie O'Donnell wrestling for the last rib at an all-you can-eat Bar-B-Q... |
| Doc
User ID: 473847
7/26/2008 2:52 PM | | Re: Survival Guns discussed | Quote |
My sermon today is taken from the Gospel of John Moses, Chapter 1, verses 45 thru 1911....
In the beginning was the 1911
In the beginning was the 1911, and the 1911 was the pistol, and it was good. And behold the Lord said, thou shalt not muck with my disciple John's design for it is good and it worketh. For John made the 1911, and lo all of his weapons, from the designs which I, the Lord, gave him upon the mountain.
And shouldst thou muck with it and hang all manner of foul implements upon it, and profane its internal parts, thou shalt surely fail and have malfunctions, and in the midst of battle thou shalt surely come to harm.
And as the ages passed, men in their ignorance and arrogance didst forget the word of the Lord and began to profane the 1911. The tribe of the gamesman did place recoil spring guides and extended slide releases upon the 1911, and their metalsmiths didst tighten the tolerances and alter parts to their liking, their clarity of mind being clouded by lust.
The artisans did hang all manner of foul implements upon the 1911 and did so alter it that it became impractical to purchase. For lo, the artisans did charge a great tax upon the purchasers of the 1911 so that the lowly field worker could not afford one. And the profaning of the internal parts didst render it unworkable when the dust of the land fell upon it. And lo, they did install adjustable sights, which are an abomination unto the Lord, for they doth break and lose their zero when thou dost need true aim. And those who have done so will be slain in great numbers by their enemies in the great battle.
And it came to pass that the Lord didst see the abomination wrought by man and didst cause, as He had warned, fearful malfunction to come upon the abominations and upon the artisans who thought they could do no wrong.
Seeing the malfunctions and the confusion of men the Lord of the underworld did see an opportunity to further ensnare man and didst bring forth pistols made of plastic, whose form was such that they looked and felt like a brick, yet the eyes of man being clouded, they were consumed by the plastic pistol and did buy vast quantities of them.
And being a deceitful spirit the Devil did make these plastic pistols unamenable to the artisans of earth and they were unable to muck much with the design, and lo these pistols did function.
And the evil one also brought forth pistols in which the trigger didst both cock and fire them, and which require a 'Dingus' to make them appear safe.
But man being stupid did not understand these new pistols and did proceed to shoot themselves with the plastic pistol, and with the trigger cocking pistols, for lo, their manual of arms required great intelligence which man had long since forsaken.
Yet man did not repent of his evil ways, but continued to gloat over these new pistols blaming Satan for the negligent discharges which they themselves had committed.
And when man had been totally ensnared with the plastic pistol the Devil didst cause a plague of the terrible Ka-BOOM to descend upon man and the plastic pistols delivered their retribution upon men. And there was great wailing and gnashing of teeth in the land.
Then seeing that the eyes of man were slowly being opened and that man was truly sorrowful for his sinful misdeeds, the Lord did send his messengers in the form of artisans who did hear and obey the teachings of the Prophet and who didst restore the profaned 1911's to their proper configuration, and lo, to the amazement of men they didst begin to work as the Prophet intended. |
| Omega
User ID: 340280
7/26/2008 2:52 PM | | Re: Survival Guns discussed | Quote |
I'll guess the location-Sierra Nevada Mountains near the Kings River?
Handguns are a skill; shotguns an art; rifles a science.
_____________________________________
Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on whats for dinner.
Disarmament is the precursor to Genocide.
Better to take action now rather than chances later. Your choice. |
| Evil Twin
Senior Forum Moderator
User ID: 473771
7/26/2008 2:53 PM
| | Re: Survival Guns discussed | Quote |
I'd rather see Lady Marine have at you!
I can see it now you show up and she's throwing hay bales to the second story loft GEEE where did ET go! HAHAHAHA Quoting: UD 473846
LOL, not sure I'd survive a 'boot-camp' with you guys!
Talk to you guys later, my truck is sitting on jack stands in the garage, dammit!
To visualize the coming apocalypse, imagine, if you will, Oprah & Rosie O'Donnell wrestling for the last rib at an all-you can-eat Bar-B-Q... |
| Omega
User ID: 340280
7/26/2008 2:54 PM | | Re: Survival Guns discussed | Quote |
HHHHMMMMM the cops just showed up guess what they all have shiny new full auto M4s!
I asked where they got them THE FEDS! WTF!!!!!!!!!!
In the last 48 hrs they've spent about 20 on the range!
B.O.B. said we should put a big iron gate at the mouth of the canyon. We all laughed now I'm wondering if he's right. Quoting: UD 471893
Ut oh. Ask them what the catch is. There always is a catch with them Fed boys...
Handguns are a skill; shotguns an art; rifles a science.
_____________________________________
Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on whats for dinner.
Disarmament is the precursor to Genocide.
Better to take action now rather than chances later. Your choice. |
| Lester
User ID: 473805
7/26/2008 2:54 PM | | Re: Survival Guns discussed | Quote |
Recommendations for .22LR
Semi-Auto pistols:
Ruger Mk I, II, III, 22/45
Colt Ace, Huntsman, Woodsman, Woodsman Target
S&W Mod 41 and the less expensive field pistols
High Standard any (discontinued but superb esp target models)
Walther PP, PPK, PPK/S TPH
(Lots more, Ivor Johnson imported a Woodsman clone years ago)
Revolvers:
Ruger Single Six, Super Single Six,
Colt Diamondback double-action, Colt single action & buntline sp.
Smith & Wesson Model 17 K-22 target double-action, also in J-frame w/1-7/8" and 3" barrel, and Combat Masterpiece models. There were a few stainless models made.
Lots of other cheap .22 revolvers, many not very durable, stay away from imports or sat night special junkers.
Rifles:
Most .22lr rifles are pretty decent. Check out Brownells.com and see if you can get parts. Good to have a spare firing pin and a few various replacement springs and magazines.
The Browning .22auto is a superb weapon
Ruger 10/22 is most accurized .22rifle ever made
Any Winchester or Remington pump/auto or bolt rifle is good.
Browning T bolt is excellent, Remington 513T is Superb
Anshutz or Savage Anschutz Superb
Marlin 39 variants about the best survival rifle going; buy the takedown version. Winchester 9422 and Browning .22 lever also superb.
Gotta mention the Armalite AR-7 takedown rifle w/floating nylon stock.
Savage also sold the .410 and 20ga Over/Under combo rifles for a longtime, very nice some had .22, others .30-30
Will discuss spare parts later. Being able to find accessories, scope mounts and aperture sights is a consideration. Longer barreled rifles are very quiet with mild ammo. |
| UD
User ID: 473846
7/26/2008 2:55 PM | | Re: Survival Guns discussed | Quote |
How many here close one eye while shooting?
Looks like a guy thread, but find all of this interesting.
We had a skeet machine/skeet thrower and used it often when practicing.
Also did a lot of plain ol target shootin.
I shoot with one closed...and I'm told it's the wrong eye.
Am right handed, and close the right eye.
I shouldn't be able to hit anything doing that...
But when I aim, I hit....almost always.
Not sure why that is... Quoting: Beingsouthern
Every body is welcome in gun threads especially females!!!!
Right handed left eyed is not that uncommon. Lady Marine just trained one of the cops that didn't realize that was his problem. He shoots better now but still not as well as the little girls of the house. |
| Omega
User ID: 340280
7/26/2008 2:55 PM | | Re: Survival Guns discussed | Quote |
I don't think I've told you guys...I jut registered for a two day Appleseed shoot. I think it's time for a refresher course, and these guy are getting a lot of praise lately, plus, it's damn cheap for a 2 day intensive training course.
[ link to www.appleseedinfo.org]
Very nice, I bookmarked it, Let us know how it works out bro...
Handguns are a skill; shotguns an art; rifles a science.
_____________________________________
Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on whats for dinner.
Disarmament is the precursor to Genocide.
Better to take action now rather than chances later. Your choice. |
| Omega
User ID: 340280
7/26/2008 2:58 PM | | Re: Survival Guns discussed | Quote |
My sermon today is taken from the Gospel of John Moses, Chapter 1, verses 45 thru 1911....
In the beginning was the 1911
In the beginning was the 1911, and the 1911 was the pistol, and it was good. And behold the Lord said, thou shalt not muck with my disciple John's design for it is good and it worketh. For John made the 1911, and lo all of his weapons, from the designs which I, the Lord, gave him upon the mountain.
And shouldst thou muck with it and hang all manner of foul implements upon it, and profane its internal parts, thou shalt surely fail and have malfunctions, and in the midst of battle thou shalt surely come to harm.
And as the ages passed, men in their ignorance and arrogance didst forget the word of the Lord and began to profane the 1911. The tribe of the gamesman did place recoil spring guides and extended slide releases upon the 1911, and their metalsmiths didst tighten the tolerances and alter parts to their liking, their clarity of mind being clouded by lust.
The artisans did hang all manner of foul implements upon the 1911 and did so alter it that it became impractical to purchase. For lo, the artisans did charge a great tax upon the purchasers of the 1911 so that the lowly field worker could not afford one. And the profaning of the internal parts didst render it unworkable when the dust of the land fell upon it. And lo, they did install adjustable sights, which are an abomination unto the Lord, for they doth break and lose their zero when thou dost need true aim. And those who have done so will be slain in great numbers by their enemies in the great battle.
And it came to pass that the Lord didst see the abomination wrought by man and didst cause, as He had warned, fearful malfunction to come upon the abominations and upon the artisans who thought they could do no wrong.
Seeing the malfunctions and the confusion of men the Lord of the underworld did see an opportunity to further ensnare man and didst bring forth pistols made of plastic, whose form was such that they looked and felt like a brick, yet the eyes of man being clouded, they were consumed by the plastic pistol and did buy vast quantities of them.
And being a deceitful spirit the Devil did make these plastic pistols unamenable to the artisans of earth and they were unable to muck much with the design, and lo these pistols did function.
And the evil one also brought forth pistols in which the trigger didst both cock and fire them, and which require a 'Dingus' to make them appear safe.
But man being stupid did not understand these new pistols and did proceed to shoot themselves with the plastic pistol, and with the trigger cocking pistols, for lo, their manual of arms required great intelligence which man had long since forsaken.
Yet man did not repent of his evil ways, but continued to gloat over these new pistols blaming Satan for the negligent discharges which they themselves had committed.
And when man had been totally ensnared with the plastic pistol the Devil didst cause a plague of the terrible Ka-BOOM to descend upon man and the plastic pistols delivered their retribution upon men. And there was great wailing and gnashing of teeth in the land.
Then seeing that the eyes of man were slowly being opened and that man was truly sorrowful for his sinful misdeeds, the Lord did send his messengers in the form of artisans who did hear and obey the teachings of the Prophet and who didst restore the profaned 1911's to their proper configuration, and lo, to the amazement of men they didst begin to work as the Prophet intended. Quoting: Doc 473847
You sir, are a true American.
Handguns are a skill; shotguns an art; rifles a science.
_____________________________________
Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on whats for dinner.
Disarmament is the precursor to Genocide.
Better to take action now rather than chances later. Your choice. |
| Beingsouthern
Forum Moderator
User ID: 113248
7/26/2008 3:00 PM
| | Re: Survival Guns discussed | Quote |
Sounds like you are 'cross-eye dominant'.
Right hand, left eye
Have never heard of that ET, but thanks.
And thank you for the response, UD.
Now I'll feel better about telling the guys to let me do what works for me, when they scream at me to close my left eye. ;)
Thanks again, guys. |
| UD
User ID: 303516
7/26/2008 3:02 PM | | Re: Survival Guns discussed | Quote |
I'll guess the location-Sierra Nevada Mountains near the Kings River? Quoting: Omega
You talking my location?
Do you know the gig? If you can guess our location within 5 miles you win a free trip to the house and the shooting is on me.
I'd say you're about 1500 miles off. A hint we are in the shadow of a fourteener. |
| Omega
User ID: 340280
7/26/2008 3:04 PM | | Re: Survival Guns discussed | Quote |
I'll guess the location-Sierra Nevada Mountains near the Kings River?
You talking my location?
Do you know the gig? If you can guess our location within 5 miles you win a free trip to the house and the shooting is on me.
I'd say you're about 1500 miles off. A hint we are in the shadow of a fourteener. Quoting: UD 303516
Okay very cool and you are ON!!!!Thanks!
Handguns are a skill; shotguns an art; rifles a science.
_____________________________________
Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on whats for dinner.
Disarmament is the precursor to Genocide.
Better to take action now rather than chances later. Your choice. |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 458358
7/26/2008 3:08 PM | | Anonymous Coward
User ID: 458358
7/26/2008 3:11 PM | | Re: Survival Guns discussed | Quote |
Quoting: Anonymous Coward 458358
A breath of fresh air enters this all too often stale
and barren place. Maybe you can put aside your thoughts banana clips and bashing teeth with hatchets.
---------------------------------------------------------- ----
[link to www.oftwominds.com]
Charles Hugh Smith
The Art of Survival, Taoism and the Warring States
This week's theme: Survival + (June 27, 2008)
I'm not trying to be difficult, but I can't help cutting against the grain on topics like surviving the coming bad times when my experience runs counter to the standard received wisdom.
A common thread within most discussions of surviving bad times--especially really bad times--runs more or less like this: stockpile a bunch of canned/dried food and other valuable accoutrements of civilized life (generators, tools, canned goods, firearms, etc.) in a remote area far from urban centers, and then wait out the bad times, all the while protecting your stash with an array of weaponry and technology (night vision binocs, etc.)
Now while I respect and admire the goal, I must respectfully disagree with just about every assumption behind this strategy. Once again, this isn't because I enjoy being ornery (please don't check on that with my wife) but because everything in this strategy runs counter to my own experience in rural, remote settings.
You see, when I was a young teen my family lived in the mountains. To the urban sophisticates who came up as tourists, we were "hicks" (or worse), and to us they were "flatlanders" (derisive snort).
Now the first thing you have to realize is that we know the flatlanders, but they don't know us. They come up to their cabin, and since we live here year round, we soon recognize their vehicles and know about how often they come up, what they look like, if they own a boat, how many in their family, and just about everything else which can be learned by simple observation.
The second thing you have to consider is that after school and chores (remember there are lots of kids who are too young to have a legal job, and many older teens with no jobs, which are scarce), boys and girls have a lot of time on their hands. We're not taking piano lessons and all that urban busywork. And while there are plenty of pudgy kids spending all afternoon or summer in front of the TV or videogame console, not every kid is like that.
So we're out riding around. On a scooter or motorcycle if we have one, (and if there's gasoline, of course), but if not then on bicycles, or we're hoofing it. Since we have time, and we're wandering all over this valley or mountain or plain, one way or another, then somebody will spot that trail of dust rising behind your pickup when you go to your remote hideaway. Or we'll run across the new road or driveway you cut, and wander up to see what's going on. Not when you're around, of course, but after you've gone back down to wherever you live. There's plenty of time; since you picked a remote spot, nobody's around.
Your hideaway isn't remote to us; this is our valley, mountain, desert, etc., all 20 miles of it, or what have you. We've hiked around all the peaks, because there's no reason not to and we have a lot of energy. Fences and gates are no big deal, (if you triple-padlock your gate, then we'll just climb over it) and any dirt road, no matter how rough, is just an open invitation to see what's up there. Remember, if you can drive to your hideaway, so can we. Even a small pickup truck can easily drive right through most gates (don't ask how, but I can assure you this is true). If nobody's around, we have all the time in the world to lift up or snip your barbed wire and sneak into your haven. Its remoteness makes it easy for us to poke around and explore without fear of being seen.
What flatlanders think of as remote, we think of as home. If you packed in everything on your back, and there was no road, then you'd have a very small hideaway--more a tent than a cabin. You'd think it was safely hidden, but we'd eventually find it anyway, because we wander all over this area, maybe hunting rabbits, or climbing rocks, or doing a little fishing if there are any creeks or lakes in the area. Or we'd spot the wisp of smoke rising from your fire one crisp morning, or hear your generator, and wonder who's up there. We don't need much of a reason to walk miles over rough country, or ride miles on our bikes.
When we were 13, my buddy J.E. and I tied sleeping bags and a few provisions on our bikes--mine was a crappy old 3-speed, his a Schwinn 10-speed--and rode off into the next valley over bone-jarring dirt roads. We didn't have fancy bikes with shocks, and we certainly didn't have camp chairs, radios, big ice chests and all the other stuff people think is necessary to go camping; we had some matches, cans of beans and apple sauce and some smashed bread. (It didn't start out smashed, but the roads were rough. Note: if you ever suffer from constipation, I recommend beans and apple sauce.)
We camped where others had camped before us, not in a campground but just off the road in a pretty little meadow with a ring of fire-blackened rocks and a flat spot among the pine needles. We didn't have a tent, or air mattress, or any of those luxuries; but we had the smashed bread and the beans, and we made a little fire and ate and then went to sleep under the stars glittering in the dark sky.
There were a few bears in the area, but we weren't afraid; we didn't need a gun to feel safe. We weren't dumb enough to sleep with our food; if some bear wandered by and wanted the smashed bread, he could take it without bothering us. The only animal which could bother us was the human kind, and since few people walk 10 or more miles over rough ground in the heat and dust, then we'd hear their truck or motorbike approaching long before they ever spotted us.
We explored old mines and anything else we spotted, and then we rode home, a long loop over rutted, dusty roads. In summer, we took countless hikes over the mountainous wilderness behind his family cabin.
All of which is to say that the locals will know where your hideaway is because they have lots of time to poke around. Any road, no matter how rough, might as well be lit with neon lights which read, "Come on up and check this out!" If a teen doesn't spot your road, then somebody will: a county or utility employee out doing his/her job, a hunter, somebody. As I said, the only slim chance you have of being undetected is if you hump every item in your stash on your pack through trailess, roadless wilderness. But if you ever start a fire, or make much noise, then you're sending a beacon somebody will eventually notice.
The Taoists developed their philosophy during an extended era of turmoil known as the Warring States period of Chinese history. One of their main principles runs something like this: if you're tall and stout and strong, then you'll call attention to yourself. And because you're rigid--that is, what looks like strength at first glance--then when the wind rises, it snaps you right in half.
If you're thin and ordinary and flexible, like a willow reed, then you'll bend in the wind, and nobody will notice you. You'll survive while the "strong" will be broken, either by unwanted attention or by being brittle.
Another thing to ponder is that the human animal is a much better predator than it is an elusive prey. Goats and wild turkeys and other animals have very keen senses of smell and hearing, and it's tough to get close without them smelling you or hearing you. They're well camoulflaged, and since human sight is selected to detect movement and color, if they stay quite still we have a hard time spotting them.
In comparison, the human is a clumsy prey. It can't smell or hear very well, and it's large and not well camouflaged. Plus it's usually distracted and unaware of its surroundings. It doesn't take much to kill a human, either; a single-shot rifle and a single round of .22-long is plenty enough.
If the chips are down, and push comes to shove, then what we're discussing is a sort of war, isn't it? And if we're talking about war, then we should think about the principles laid down in The Art Of War by Sun Tzu quite some time ago.
The flatlander protecting his valuable depot is on the defensive, and anyone seeking to take it away (by negotiation, threat or force) is on the offensive. The defense can select the site for proximity to water, clear fields of fire, or what have you, but one or two defenders have numerous disadvantages. Perhaps most importantly, they need to sleep. Secondly, just about anyone who's plinked cans with a rifle and who's done a little hunting can sneak up and put away an unwary human. Unless you remain in an underground bunker 24/7, at some point you'll be vulnerable. And that's really not much of a life--especially when your food supplies finally run out, which they eventually will. Or you run out of water, or your sewage system overflows, or some other situation requires you to emerge.
So let's line it all up. Isn't a flatlander who piles up a high-value stash in a remote area with no neighbors within earshort or line of sight kind of like a big, tall brittle tree? All those chains and locks and barbed-wire fencing and bolted doors just shout out that the flatlander has something valuable inside that cabin/bunker/RV etc.
Now if he doesn't know any better, then the flatlander reckons his stash is safe. But what he's not realizing if that we know about his stash and his vehicle and whatever else can be observed. If some locals want that stash, then they'll wait for the flatlander to leave and then they'll tow the RV off or break into the cabin, or if it's small enough, disassemble it and haul it clean off. There's plenty of time, and nobody's around. That's pretty much the ideal setting for leisurely thieving: a high-value stash of goodies in a remote area accessible by road is just about perfect.
Let's say things have gotten bad, and the flatlander is burrowed into his cabin. Eventually some locals will come up to visit; in a truck if there's gas, on foot if there isn't. We won't be armed; we're not interested in taking the flatlander's life or goodies. We just want to know what kind of person he is. So maybe we'll ask to borrow his generator for a town dance, or tell him about the church food drive, or maybe ask if he's seen so-and-so around.
Now what's the flatlander going to do when several unarmed men approach? Gun them down? Once he's faced with regular unarmed guys, he can't very well conclude they're a threat and warn them off. But if he does, then we'll know he's just another selfish flatlander. He won't get any help later when he needs it; or it will be minimal and grudging. He just counted himself out.
Suppose some bad guys hear about the flatlander's hideway and stash. All it takes to stalk any prey is patience and observation; and no matter how heavily armed the flatlander is, he'll become vulnerable at some point to a long-range shot. (Even body armor can't stop a headshot or a hit to the femoral artery in the thigh.) Maybe he stays indoors for 6 days, or even 60. But at some point the windmill breaks or the dog needs walking or what have you, and he emerges--and then he's vulnerable. The more visible and stringent the security, the more he's advertising the high value of his depot.
And of course guarding a high-value stash alone is problematic for the simple reason that humans need to sleep.
So creating a high-value horde in a remote setting is looking like just about the worst possible strategy in the sense that the flatlander has provided a huge incentive to theft/robbery and also provided a setting advantageous to the thief or hunter.
If someone were to ask this "hick" for a less risky survival strategy, I would suggest moving into town and start showing a little generosity rather than a lot of hoarding. If not in town, then on the edge of town, where you can be seen and heard.
I'd suggest attending church, if you've a mind to, even if your faith isn't as strong as others. Or join the Lions Club, Kiwanis or Rotary International, if you can get an invitation. I'd volunteer to help with the pancake breakfast fundraiser, and buy a couple tickets to other fundraisers in town. I'd mow the old lady's lawn next door for free, and pony up a dollar if the elderly gentleman in line ahead of me at the grocery store finds himself a dollar light on his purchase.
If I had a parcel outside town that was suitable for an orchard or other crop, I'd plant it, and spend plenty of time in the local hardware store and farm supply, asking questions and spreading a little money around the local merchants. I'd invite my neighbors into my little plain house so they could see I don't own diddly-squat except some second-hand furniture and a crappy old TV. And I'd leave my door open so anyone could see for themselves I've got very little worth taking.
I'd have my tools, of course; but they're scattered around and old and battered by use; they're not shiny and new and expensive-looking, and they're not stored all nice and clean in a box some thief could lift. They're hung on old nails, or in the closet, and in the shed; a thief would have to spend a lot of time searching the entire place, and with my neighbors looking out for me, the thief is short of the most important advantage he has, which is time.
If somebody's desperate enough or dumb enough to steal my old handsaw, I'll buy another old one at a local swap meet. (Since I own three anyway, it's unlikely anyone would steal all three because they're not kept together.)
My valuable things, like the water filter, are kept hidden amidst all the low-value junk I keep around to send the message there's nothing worth looking at. The safest things to own are those which are visibly low-value, surrounded by lots of other mostly worthless stuff.
I'd claim a spot in the community garden, or hire a neighbor to till up my back yard, and I'd plant chard and beans and whatever else my neighbors suggested grew well locally. I'd give away most of what I grew, or barter it, or maybe sell some at the farmer's market. It wouldn't matter how little I had to sell, or how much I sold; what mattered was meeting other like-minded souls and swapping tips and edibles.
If I didn't have a practical skill, I'd devote myself to learning one. If anyone asked me, I'd suggest saw sharpening and beer-making. You're legally entitled to make quite a bit of beer for yourself, and a decent homebrew is always welcome by those who drink beer. It's tricky, and your first batches may blow up or go flat, but when you finally get a good batch you'll be very popular and well-appreciated if you're of the mind to share.
Saw-sharpening just takes patience and a simple jig; you don't need to learn a lot, like a craftsman, but you'll have a skill you can swap with craftsmen/women. As a carpenter, I need sharp saws, and while I can do it myself, I find it tedious and would rather rebuild your front porch handrail or a chicken coop in exchange for the saw-sharpening.
Pickles are always welcome in winter, or when rations get boring; the Germans and Japanese of old lived on black bread or brown rice and pickled vegetables, with an occasional piece of dried meat or fish. Learning how to pickle is a useful and easy-to-learn craft. There are many others. If you're a techie, then volunteer to keep the network up at the local school; do it for free, and do a good job. Show you care.
Because the best protection isn't owning 30 guns; it's having 30 people who care about you. Since those 30 have other people who care about them, you actually have 300 people who are looking out for each other, including you. The second best protection isn't a big stash of stuff others want to steal; it's sharing what you have and owning little of value. That's being flexible, and common, the very opposite of creating a big fat highly visible, high-value target and trying to defend it yourself in a remote setting.
I know this runs counter to just about everything that's being recommended by others, but if you're a "hick" like me, then you know it rings true. The flatlanders are scared because they're alone and isolated; we're not scared. We've endured bad times before, and we don't need much to get by. We're not saints, but we will reciprocate to those who extend their good spirit and generosity to the community in which they live and in which they produce something of value. |
| UD
User ID: 303516
7/26/2008 3:11 PM | | Re: Survival Guns discussed | Quote |
Sounds like you are 'cross-eye dominant'.
Right hand, left eye
Have never heard of that ET, but thanks.
And thank you for the response, UD.
Now I'll feel better about telling the guys to let me do what works for me, when they scream at me to close my left eye. ;)
Thanks again, guys. Quoting: Beingsouthern
At least you keep one eye open!
The newest additions to the house hold are a doctor couple she's a dentist he an intern.
Everyone around here needs to know how to shoot because we have some nasty animals around. The first time I went to the range and watched the lady doc shoot she had both eyes closed!
But hey she had never been around a gun, it still scared the crap out of me! |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 413355
7/26/2008 3:12 PM | | Re: Survival Guns discussed | Quote |
Ruger 10/22
Ruger Mini 14 223
Bushmaster M4 patrolman 223
Mossberg 12Ga pistol grip
Sig 220
Springfield xd45
S&W air weight 38
Remington 700 300 ultra mag
assorted other shotguns,longuns & pistols |
| Lester
User ID: 473805
7/26/2008 3:18 PM | | Re: Survival Guns discussed | Quote |
Centerfire Working Rifles:
Your Defensive weapon can also be your working rifle.
A .308Win can fulfill lots of roles, IF you handload for it. The .223 Remington is more versatile IF you don't need to harvest animals larger than Black Bear or Mule Deer. More on this in the Defensive Rifle discussion.
Basically, here we are talking about deer and varmint rifles. Mostly bolt actions and scoped. Although you have to love the lever action carbines and maybe the Scout Rifle concept guns. A .30-30 Winchester in Marlin 336 with a scope is a Very Flexible Rifle. .30-30 is even more flexible in a bolt action because you can load pointed nose bullets instead of flat or round-nosed, but the fast reaction qualities of the lever put it almost on par with an assault/defensive rifle. Not going to discuss the Winchester lever varmint rifles, although Marlin in the 197s brought back the .45-70 from extinction with their 1895 models and pioneered the .444 Marlin which is a great weapon for anyone already casting bullets for the .44magnum.
Killing deer or big game is not magic. Just takes good bullet placement and skill. Might also take some great tracking skills to recover your meat! So you must consider caliber and bullet weight in your decisionmaking.
About the best all-around ctg for N. America is the .30-06 Springfield. Still can get cheap surplus ammo for it. Great Variety of bullet weights available. Handloading really makes it versatile. The Ackley Improved version is almost on-par with the short mags and .300 Win Mag. Yet you get long barel life unlike the magnums. Almost any bolt rifle made comes in .30-06, except the short and shorty action models.
The .30-06 has been eclipsed, if you can consider the whys, by the .308Winchester. The M14/M1a is a better fighting and target rifle than the M1 Garand. The .308 is a short-action capable round, almost as much power, better accuracy at the target range. Not better in a bolt rifle, unless you are military sniper, but aside from a few Remington 700 Senderos made in .30-06 and .270Winchester, the .308, .243Win, .260Rem, and 7mm/08 are the longrange accuracy ctgs of choice. All are based on the .308Win/7.62Nato.
Gonna use more than a 180gr bullet? Maybe you need a .30-06 or .300Win Mag? Want blazing fast velocity for varmints? Maybe you need a .243 or .260rem? Yet, if you handload, you can likely do it all with the .308. 125gr to 200gr.
more... |
| UD
User ID: 299856
7/26/2008 3:19 PM | | Re: Survival Guns discussed | Quote |
Later bros and lady I need to go see what the cops are up to and see if I can't get more info out of them.
The way they're act is getting kind of squirrelly.
Then it's off to training the mules |
| Omega
User ID: 340280
7/26/2008 3:21 PM | | Re: Survival Guns discussed | Quote |
Later bros and lady I need to go see what the cops are up to and see if I can't get more info out of them.
The way they're act is getting kind of squirrelly.
Then it's off to training the mules Quoting: UD 299856
Later man, please let us know what you find out, could be...useful...
Handguns are a skill; shotguns an art; rifles a science.
_____________________________________
Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on whats for dinner.
Disarmament is the precursor to Genocide.
Better to take action now rather than chances later. Your choice. |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 413355
7/26/2008 3:22 PM | | Re: Survival Guns discussed | Quote |
HHHHMMMMM the cops just showed up guess what they all have shiny new full auto M4s!
I asked where they got them THE FEDS! WTF!!!!!!!!!!
In the last 48 hrs they've spent about 20 on the range!
B.O.B. said we should put a big iron gate at the mouth of the canyon. We all laughed now I'm wondering if he's right. Quoting: UD 471893
I heard the same comment on another forum. All the cops got M4's.
Poster was police and said it was in response to Cal. bank shootout years ago. RIGHT |
| | Page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19 | |
|
