| | | Page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19 | Survival Guns discussed
| ZOSIME
User ID: 384163
7/28/2008 1:32 AM
 | | Re: Survival Guns discussed | Quote |
Thank"s I'll check them out.
Last time my x hubby reloaded some 45 shells they were a little hot. When we went out to shoot I fired and I recieved powder burns on my arms and hands. It made me a little gun shy for awhile. He laughed and thought it was funny. I love Rifles but still a lirrle nervous around hand guns |
| Evil Twin  
Senior Forum Moderator
User ID: 474610
7/28/2008 1:40 AM
 | | Re: Survival Guns discussed | Quote |
Thank"s I'll check them out.
Last time my x hubby reloaded some 45 shells they were a little hot. When we went out to shoot I fired and I recieved powder burns on my arms and hands. It made me a little gun shy for awhile. He laughed and thought it was funny. I love Rifles but still a lirrle nervous around hand guns Quoting: ZOSIME
Powder burns on your hands and arms almost sounds like the gun was firing out of battery! By that I mean, the round was firing before it was fully seated in the chamber and the slide was locked. Or, possibly a weak recoil spring, which would allow the slide to start opening before the powder was burnt. I load lots of hot .45's, and they never burn my hands and arms. Something is not right with the gun if you are getting burned! Recoil springs are typically under $15, and can be found at probably any of the sites malu and I listed, you should order a couple! |
| Enigma
User ID: 468191
7/28/2008 1:47 AM
 | | Re: Survival Guns discussed | Quote |
hmm...
what kind of survival?
wilderness?
urban?
foreign lands?
hard to say as there is a gun for every situation...
my hands down favorite and one I have made more meat with consistently is a Sako M995 bolt action in .300 win mag, with a 4x12 excellent scope.
in close quarter combat, i would say 1911 with a mossberg 590
if it was small game hunting, .22
if it was urban warfare, sniping and long range vehicular disablement, HK91 with long range scope and AP boolits
if it was...
you get the picture...
I also own 6 different types of shovels, 3 different types of rakes, 4 hoes and a partridge in a pear tree...
for the job the is a tool...
"knowing and not DOING, is like NOT KNOWING at all" |
| ZOSIME
User ID: 384163
7/28/2008 1:51 AM
| | Re: Survival Guns discussed | Quote |
Thank"s I'll check them out.
Last time my x hubby reloaded some 45 shells they were a little hot. When we went out to shoot I fired and I recieved powder burns on my arms and hands. It made me a little gun shy for awhile. He laughed and thought it was funny. I love Rifles but still a lirrle nervous around hand guns
Powder burns on your hands and arms almost sounds like the gun was firing out of battery! By that I mean, the round was firing before it was fully seated in the chamber and the slide was locked. Or, possibly a weak recoil spring, which would allow the slide to start opening before the powder was burnt. I load lots of hot .45's, and they never burn my hands and arms. Something is not right with the gun if you are getting burned! Recoil springs are typically under $15, and can be found at probably any of the sites malu and I listed, you should order a couple! Quoting: Evil Twin
He told me that he reloaded the shells to hot. What a Dumass. He passed away so RIP I guess my son has that gun so I will make sure and tell him to check it out. |
| Prof_Rabbit
User ID: 148352
7/28/2008 2:18 AM | | Re: Survival Guns discussed | Quote |
I am an American that lives in a very rural community. I am also a terrible pack-rat. I can't throw away anything that might be useful later as repair parts. I save brass for cartridges that I don't have a gun chambered for, lol. Quoting: Evil Twin
Et Tu Brutus (or something like it) hell I have rounds with nothing to chamber them in.
that being said those who are brought up rural know that a bit of left over fencing wire becomes a snare, that a broken hacksaw blade can make a small knife and so on.
Everything can be used more than once and for a different purpose.
"Anger is a wind that blows out the lamp of your mind" |
| Prof_Rabbit
User ID: 148352
7/28/2008 2:28 AM | | Re: Survival Guns discussed | Quote |
Good .22
Ruger 10/22, Browing T-bolt, -
Shotgun Win. 1300 or Remington 870 or perhaps the Mossberg
CF. I like FN's good all purpose.
Handgun HK P7 M13, I don't like too much plastic.
.22 Ruger or Browning.
"Anger is a wind that blows out the lamp of your mind" |
| himself
User ID: 474591
7/28/2008 2:30 AM | | Re: Survival Guns discussed | Quote |
The best survival gun is the one you have on hand, not the dozen in the gun rack, the hideout or the cache. Quoting: Prof-Rabbit (nli) 148352
That's why I carry the .22lr derringers 24/7
(even in swim trunks)
1970 Nam/Cambodia
When I have had to jump face down in the muck,
my rifle went with me.
That it was an M-16 was my cross to bear.
Clean the damn thing before it will work again. No matter that those AK's are firing out of the same mud as us.
I now use what works best IMHO
The lightweight .380 readily at hand beats the hand cannon others carry.
I gave up my AMT .380 backups for my KelTec PC-ATs
Reason?
Lighter, smaller, capable of firing the same ammo.
Got handguns all the way up to .45 long colt and .44 auto mag and prefer the PC-AT for everyday carry.
Caliber?
Armed robber with .357
(me cashier at self-serve gas station/ many yrs ago)
He thumbed the hammer back on his .357 Colt Trooper
{kill the witness! I thought and went on auto-pilot as military taught me}
I pulled my .22lr S&W mouse gun and fired point blank.
I am still here posting.
He is just a name on a police report and and headstone.
Point made?
The gun you have at hand beats any hand cannon anywhere.
Carry legally/
get a Concealed Carry Permit
learn when NOT to use the gun.
Obey the law
Survive
Learn to sleep after you kill you assailant?
Let me know how you do it.
I need the sleep. |
| Evil Twin
Senior Forum Moderator
User ID: 474610
7/28/2008 2:33 AM
| | Re: Survival Guns discussed | Quote |
Thank"s I'll check them out.
Last time my x hubby reloaded some 45 shells they were a little hot. When we went out to shoot I fired and I recieved powder burns on my arms and hands. It made me a little gun shy for awhile. He laughed and thought it was funny. I love Rifles but still a lirrle nervous around hand guns
Powder burns on your hands and arms almost sounds like the gun was firing out of battery! By that I mean, the round was firing before it was fully seated in the chamber and the slide was locked. Or, possibly a weak recoil spring, which would allow the slide to start opening before the powder was burnt. I load lots of hot .45's, and they never burn my hands and arms. Something is not right with the gun if you are getting burned! Recoil springs are typically under $15, and can be found at probably any of the sites malu and I listed, you should order a couple!
He told me that he reloaded the shells to hot. What a Dumass. He passed away so RIP I guess my son has that gun so I will make sure and tell him to check it out. Quoting: ZOSIME
Without seeing it fire, I can't be sure, but that really sounds like a gun issue. Recoil springs need to be replaced every few thousand rounds, especially if you are firing 'hot' rounds. The springs are so cheap, I wouldn't fire it again without replacing it first. Then, I would start with mild factory (or equivalent) cartridges.
Honestly, I used to be big into loading hot .45's, but now, I have realized that the gun was only designed to withstand so much pressure. I will just grab a .44 mag or .454 Casull, or 10 MM, if I want more power. No sense in beating up my .45's lol. |
| himself
User ID: 474591
7/28/2008 2:48 AM | | Re: Survival Guns discussed | Quote |
My generation one .44 AutoMag
South Mountain by the PHX Police Academy...
A guy who'd fired a .44 Ruger SA revolver often
wanted to fire a few rounds.
I let him shoot my AutoMag
He took a one hand stance and fired a round...
Recoil slammed the hammer into his forehead...
...bleeding as we got him up
...bleeding as we took the gun...
Bleeding from the head wound from the hammer recoil impact.
He never wanted to fire my AutoMag again. |
| Lester
User ID: 474299
7/28/2008 3:19 AM | | Re: Survival Guns discussed | Quote |
Automag was quite a weapon in its day. Still is, I'm sure but probably too collectible to shoot or carry. The Wildey is another Big semi-auto. But the Desert Eagle is one that has filled a niche.
The DE is very manageable as to recoil. If you have Big Hands and don't mind the weight it could be all you'll ever need in the outback. A scoped Ruger Super Redhawk is also a good choice, but the .44mag DE is more manageable, holds more rounds, and faster to reload. The .44mag is a decent 100yd weapon. With a scoped .22lr target pistol in your backpack and a .44mag DE in a chest scabbard you would have some interesting options. Couple spare mags in your pockets or a pouch. Concealable under a windbreaker or waistband if you're big enough.
Of course, you could always tuck an M4 configured AR-15 into your backpack as well; just separate the lower from the upper With a collapsible stock you're looking at about 22" oal for the upper and 15" for the lower. A 16" AR-10 is only a few inches longer.
Having both hands free but being able to take big game or fast defense with 8rds of 270gr flat point or heavier max-loaded .44mags makes for decent options. |
| Evil Twin
Senior Forum Moderator
User ID: 474610
7/28/2008 3:27 AM
| | Re: Survival Guns discussed | Quote |
I had a .50 AE Desert Eagle for awhile.
It was fun, but the gas system was finicky with the weather.
It did not like to cycle in sub-zero weather. Might have been only mine, I don't know, but I got rid of it because it was unreliable for me.
Personally, I would lean towards a 10 mm over a .44 mag pistol. |
| Prof-Rabbit (nli)
User ID: 148352
7/28/2008 3:31 AM | | Re: Survival Guns discussed | Quote |
Learn to sleep after you kill you assailant?
Let me know how you do it.
I need the sleep. Quoting: himself
If you ever find out there are a good many people who would buy the book. |
| Lester
User ID: 474299
7/28/2008 3:47 AM | | Re: Survival Guns discussed | Quote |
I have played around a bit with the .45 Super. A bit hotter than a +P .45acp. Read about it in the aricles section on realguns.com. Data there too. Basically takes a 28lb recoil spring and heavier firing pin spring, plus special heavier case head brass made by Starline and stamped .45 Super.
Will have to keep alert to the temp problems. A lot of powder is temp sensitive, some are not. I use WW296 and magnum primers. Pistol kept under a parka is likely not as sensitive in the short run. Will have to see if Varget is a potential powder or if H110 is better at low temps than 296
Looked into the 45 Rowland a bit. Just couldn't see any advantage over the Super.
Thanks for sharing, ET! |
| Evil Twin
Senior Forum Moderator
User ID: 474610
7/28/2008 4:03 AM
| | Re: Survival Guns discussed | Quote |
Lester, I had the .50 AE before I started reloading.
I wish I could offer advice on powders for it, but I only fired commercial ammunition through it. I suspect something like Hodgdon's L'il Gun powder would be ideal. Heck, Unique would probably work for lighter loads with a hot primer. |
| Prof-Rabbit (nli)
User ID: 148352
7/28/2008 4:38 AM | | Re: Survival Guns discussed | Quote |
Will have to keep alert to the temp problems. A lot of powder is temp sensitive, some are not. I use WW296 and magnum primers. Pistol kept under a parka is likely not as sensitive in the short run. Will have to see if Varget is a potential powder or if H110 is better at low temps than 296 Quoting: Lester
Always liked WW296, versatile in small rifle cases too. |
| Lester
User ID: 474912
7/28/2008 6:45 PM | | Re: Survival Guns discussed | Quote |
AMMUNITION FOR THE SURVIVALIST...
Working Guns are those which benefit most from ammunition choices and variety. Defensive weapons should typically be sighted in for one bullet weight and for the .223/5.56mm this will mean the 55gr fmj NATO round, unless you opt to purchase Winchester 62gr or other match ammo. Same with .308 Win or .30-06; most fmj mil-spec or surplus will be 147/150gr although you might buy match ammo loaded from 168, 173 (06), or 175gr.
Match ammunition will benefit a rifle setup for accuracy. 1:11 or 1:10 twist barrel for the .30cals. A 1:7 or 1:8 for the .223. Match ammo from Black Hills, Federal, Lake City will cost a premium beginning at $25 per 20rds. Better to handload it yourself. But, if you don't have the time, have bouceaux bux, and want to buy quality, just find some in stock and ante up.
The Defensive rifle used for Working applications can certainly benefit from handloaded or premium ammunition. Probably safest to handload with premium bullets rather than purchase Premium Ammo because the Premium stuff usually is Max-Loaded; NOT SOMETHING YOU WANT IN A SEMI-AUTO DESIGNED FOR MILITARY SPEC AMMO. Certain powders are very preferable for the semi-auto, mostly fast to medium burning rate powders. The slow powders build too much pressure and are still building pressure as the bullet passes the gas hole; not a good thing. But your .308 if twist rate is sufficient, can handle anything from a 100 gr plinking bullet to a 200gr, maybe heavier, premium bullet. With bullets heavier than 180gr or with Long A-Max design of even moderate weights, you will have to load singly rather than depend on your magazine.
Still on match ammo for Battle Rifles, I will say that the 168 Sierra, Nosler, or Hornady in .30cal is about the best choice for M1a or AR-10 etc. Some prefer the Sierra 175 Matchking for its better ballistic design. Whatever works for you. The Hornady 175 A-Max will NOT function from your magazine. With .223 Rem the best match ammo will use 68/69 grain boattail or 75/77 gr BT hollowpoint bullets. The 75gr A-Max by Hornady and Sierra 80gr Matchking are too long to seat to magazine oal OverAllLength, so they are single loading propositions, but for longrange accuracy with a 1:7 twist barrel, the 80 Sierra especially is the Real Thing. |
| Lester
User ID: 474912
7/28/2008 7:02 PM | | Re: Survival Guns discussed | Quote |
Pretty easy to load match ammunition. Use new or once-fired cases. If military, you have to remove the crimp around the primer. Dillon makes a fine tool for this, or try the RCBS tool. Best primer for the semi-auto will be one which is fairly hard, so primer indent doesn't result in a slam-fire. Slam-fire could disable or kill you and likely will ruin your piece, so you want HARD Primers! Winchester Lg Rifle or maybe CCI for your .308, Remington #7-1/2 for your .223.
I typically run every case new or once-fired through a Small Base sizing die and then a Redding FL neck sizing die. I want my cases about .005 under the -0- reference on the RCBS Precision Mic gauge I use to track headspace. Some want minimal resizing. I learned not to trust factory new cases and once-fired could have been fired in a full-auto weapon which always has an oversize chamber; so be safe until you know your chamber dimensions. Being undersize also assures easy chambering, not a bad thing.
Varget, & Reloader 15 are two very excellent powders for .308 and .223. There are others, IMR 4064 and IMR 4895 among them. Varget is one that will work fine for both. The .223 likes somewhere between 23 and 25gr of powder depending on bullet weight and powder. The .308 from 40 to 44gr depending on powder. There are 7000 grains in a pound. You can get about 300 loads per pound for the .223 and about 180 for the .308. Cheapest way to buy bullets is in bulk. Shop around. I like the Hornady 75 and 168s and pay about $80/600 & $55/250 respectively. Once fired brass is pretty cheap. About $70 per thousand for .223. About $150 per thousand for .308. Sometimes you can get new Winchester or Remington pretty cheap, but not too likely. Still, shop and see. Wideners.com and grafs.com sell once-fired brass when they can get it.
One good tip, if you are buying surplus, buy Boxer primed rather than Berdan, you can't reload boxer primed cases without great effort and expense. Additionally, Federal brass has a reputation for being overly-soft. This means you might get 3-4 reloads before it won't hold a primer with sufficient tightness.
More soon about making your own ammunition for Working Guns.... |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 464984
7/28/2008 8:58 PM | | Re: Survival Guns discussed | Quote |
On another thread we started talking about magnum air rifles. These could certainly qualify as supplemental survival guns, taking small game (squirrels, raccoons and such) very quietly and cheaply.
My own RWS model 48 in .22 caliber has dispatched woodchuck very effectively. |
| Evil Twin
Senior Forum Moderator
User ID: 474893
7/28/2008 9:03 PM
| | Re: Survival Guns discussed | Quote |
I can confirm Federal brass being overly soft. I have a huge batch of Federal .45 acp brass, and even with that low pressure round, the primer pockets are stretched out too much to safely hold the primer after only 4-5 reloads.
Worst lot of brass I've ever bought. |
| Lester
User ID: 474912
7/29/2008 2:11 AM | | Re: Survival Guns discussed | Quote |
Working gun handloads:
.45acp
Great to handload for, 5-7gr powder, so 1000+ loads per lb of powder. Unique is a good one. 185, 200, 230gr bullets. Hornady 230gr Flat Point metal jacketed is superb for accuracy and self-defense. You want hollowpoints? Go ahead, but the FP fmj is excellent. Cast bullets in 200gr are a great value. Try 185 and 200 fmj or hp if you want high velocity. Cast bullets with light loads make a decent hunting round. Big bullet kills well, and does not destroy meat. Good on rabbits or for slaughter animals. Good for practice and target shooting too. Cheap!
.38sp/.357
110gr up to 170gr bullets, Unique, 2400, 296 and others even red dot in .38sp make this a very versatile round. 125jhp for defense, or use 140, 158 or other Keith type bullets for defense/hunting. The 170gr softpoint and silhouette bullets, maybe ever 180gr most effective in long barrel. Wadcutters are good for small game and practice, cheap too. The hollowbase wc when reversed is very effective for defense when loaded strongly. Not on par with .44mag for versatility, but a great ctg to have, esp if you have the J frame S&W for hideout guns.
.44sp/.44magnum
Best all around revolver ctgs. 180gr to 270/300gr. Lots of flexibility. Load a .44cal round ball over a tiny load of unique for gallery shooting. 180gr solid fmj for max velocity. Great in the marlin 94 rifles. 240gr lead bullet for light loads, even lighter in .44sp cases. I like the flat point rather than hollowpoint bullets. Heavier bullets for hunting. Light to medium loads are effective for self-defense, easier to handle due to light recoil. Anyone hit with a 240gr bullet at 900+fps is going down. Easy to shoot double action and get fine accuracy. Not so with full-power loads unless you are Very Experienced.
.45Colt/454Casull/460S&W
Only loaded for the Casull. If you own the .44mag also, this is your best option for a hunting handgun. Buy a 4" S&W for easy carry, use your larger gun for hunting. Lots of power. Great Accuracy and usable to 200yds w/scope. Lots of power!!! A rifle on your hip. Both hands free, take very large game handily with the Casull or .460 S&W. There are bigger rounds, but why???
Light loads, medium loads and custom bullets w/manageable power for hunting/defense are the reasons to handload.
Handloading is inexpensive once you own the gear. Components are fairly cheap. You can assemble better ammo than you can buy. If you learn to cast handgun bullets, you can make bullets tougher than fmj from wheelweight alloy. Mold costs $20 incl handles for a Lee alum mold. RCBS and Lyman are about $50 w/o handles. Very easy to cast bullets. Read up on how and give it a try. |
| Lester
User ID: 474912
7/29/2008 2:34 AM | | Re: Survival Guns discussed | Quote |
Working Rifle loads:
Unless you own a rifle chambered for one of a few common ctgs. handloading is your most reliable avenue for having a good supply of ammunition and obtaining it affordably.
At one time, many people owned one hunting rifle and by handloading, used that rifle, .270Win/.30-06 for everything from plinking to big game hunting. With cast bullets you can load very mild but accurate ammunition which is good for small game and target shooting. There are lead bullet benchrest afficionados who still paperpatch and shoot phenomenal groups at 100/200 yds. Yet, nothing wrong with having a variety of rifles....
The .223Rem is very versatile. Nosler makes its partition bullet in .224 diameter, so you can get a very tough 60gr bullet for hunting. FMJ bullets are good for pelt preservation for the trapper. There are a variety of highly frangible bullets made for varminters. Varmint Grenade bullets just about blow up when they hit a twig, so you can safely use them in semi-populated areas for varminting. About all you will find at the retailers are FMJ rounds for the AR-15. If you want specialty loads you about have to make them yourself. Lots of bullet designs to choose from, 35gr up to 90gr for longrange target work. Light bullets need the 1:14 twist. Heavy need fast twist. To shoot 90gr bullets, you need a 6.5 twist.
.222Rem and .22-250 are longtime super accuracy and super velocity ctgs for benchresters and varmint hunters. Much of what is said above applies to these ctgs. The .22-250 like the .225Win and .220 Swift is a barrel-burner when loaded to max velocities consistently. Very flexible rounds, the .222 is reknowned for being the first production benchrest champion round. The .22PPC has that title now, but the .222 is still a great shooting ctg.
.243 and other 6mms are versatile and burn barrels. High velocity will do that, especially w/an overbore ctg. 60gr to 117gr bullets are available. The 100+ gr bullets need a 1:8.5 twist. Lots of premium bullets and casting molds available.
The .257Roberts is the 6mmLee necked up. It is a Premier open country whitetail ctg and antelope ctg. Lots of fine bullets in .25cal. The 250-3000 is the parent case for the .220-250; many fine wildcats on this one. .257Weatherby is a great plains animal big game ctg. The .25-06 is also a super performer, but burns barrels.
6.5mm is begining big game caliber. 260Reminton, 6.5Grendel, .6.5-06, 6.5Rem mag, and the .260Winchester Mag. are all .264 diameter bullets. These are great for longrange shooting and lighter big game, though some are elk suitable. All are barrel burners except the Grendel and the military 6.5Swiss which is a Superb Longrange ctg and all-around performer. Finding ammo and brass is the only problem. Reload for it. Bullet weights of 130-170gr are available in 6.5mm. The 143gr Sierra matchking and also the Lapua Scenar are superb longrange performers. |
| Evil Twin
Senior Forum Moderator
User ID: 475169
7/29/2008 2:46 AM
| | Re: Survival Guns discussed | Quote |
An addendum on the 6.5 swiss brass. I am fairly certain it is the same parent case as the 7.5x55mm Swiss cartridge, which I reload. 7.5x55 brass is expensive, BUT, you can resize .284 Winchester brass in a standard 7.5x55 sizing die, and .284 Win brass is much cheaper. I think it would work for 6.5 also.
If I'm wrong, let me know and I'll delete my bad info. |
| Lester
User ID: 474912
7/29/2008 2:48 AM | | Re: Survival Guns discussed | Quote |
.270Win/6.8Rem SPC
The .270 was popularized by Jack O'Connor for Western all-around hunting and it is a SUPERB choice. I got my first .270 in 9th grade and loaded 90gr Sierra hollowpoints and 130gr boattails and wow, would that rifle shoot! Mild recoil and bullets up to 150gr or maybe 180gr if you use a Barnes Solid. Light loads, medium velocity and wide bullet choice make it a great ctg for any occasion. A bit light for brown bear, and the bullets will fragment on twigs and crap due to weight & velocity; but a great ctg for the reloader who won't be going after Brown Bear or Moose.
The 6.8REM SPC is the newly adapted military ctg for designated squad marksman. It is adapted to the AR-15 platform, has many similar features and case capacity but fires a 127gr bullet. Not many match bullets for the .270, but this is expected to change. If you want to use your AR-15 to hunt, and want heavier bullets, the SPC or the 6.5 Grendel are good choices. The .270Wby magnum is another plains elk ctg that produces mega velocity and will make an antelope flip. A real barrel burner like all big magnums.
7mm/08, 7mm Mauser, .280Rem, 7mmREM Mag etc
The 7mm/08 is about perfect, like the .280Rem. Great selection of bullets from 130-180gr, Barnes solids are heavier. Lots of casting mold designs, great velocity and doesn't burn barrels. 7mm Mauser is superb all-around rifle as is the .280Rem. Sheep hunters love the .280 as it does it all. The 7mm mag and variants short and super are all high velocity bombs. Great for hunting and the 7mmRem is a super accuracy round. Magnums burn barrels.
30s tomorrow.... |
| Lester
User ID: 474912
7/29/2008 3:01 AM | | Re: Survival Guns discussed | Quote |
How you doing E.Twin?
Isn't the 7.5 the Scmidt & Rubin?
maybe the 6.5 is a mannlicher ctg?
I've never seen or shot one.
Sierra manual shows the 6.5x55mm Swedish. Then there is the 6.5 mannlicher which is 54mm. Then there is the infamous carcano which has a 52mm case length.
There are so many good ctgs out there.
I don't have any experience with the short magnums. I have 7mm and 30, and .338 mags, what more could you want? I am not much on short action receivers as I like to seat bullets out there if I can. Had 2 Rem 700 short actions and sold them. Kept the .308 barrel from one, and now have it on a long action. Can load heavy bullets in the .308 if you use a long action receiver.
Kinda got sidetracked on the Ctg issue here.
A .223 and .308 is about all anyone would ever "need". Nice to have a .300Win Mag or bigger if you need it. Pretty comforting to have a 200gr or 250gr bullet at your disposal out in the backwoods. |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 332646
7/29/2008 3:03 AM | | Re: Survival Guns discussed | Quote |
The ammunition may be a most important factor, think about caliber availability and the opponent your going up against. |
| Evil Twin
Senior Forum Moderator
User ID: 475169
7/29/2008 3:16 AM
| | Re: Survival Guns discussed | Quote |
How you doing E.Twin?
Isn't the 7.5 the Scmidt & Rubin?
maybe the 6.5 is a mannlicher ctg?
I've never seen or shot one.
Sierra manual shows the 6.5x55mm Swedish. Then there is the 6.5 mannlicher which is 54mm. Then there is the infamous carcano which has a 52mm case length.
There are so many good ctgs out there.
I don't have any experience with the short magnums. I have 7mm and 30, and .338 mags, what more could you want? I am not much on short action receivers as I like to seat bullets out there if I can. Had 2 Rem 700 short actions and sold them. Kept the .308 barrel from one, and now have it on a long action. Can load heavy bullets in the .308 if you use a long action receiver.
Kinda got sidetracked on the Ctg issue here.
A .223 and .308 is about all anyone would ever "need". Nice to have a .300Win Mag or bigger if you need it. Pretty comforting to have a 200gr or 250gr bullet at your disposal out in the backwoods. Quoting: Lester
Hey Lester, yes, the 7.5x55 is the Schmidt Rubin. I am fairly certain there is a 6.5x55 based on the same case.
There is also the 6.5 Swedish which you referenced. I'm not entirely sure if they are the same cartridge or not. You've given me something to research. :)
I have to run out to my shop to dig out my manuals.
The 7.5 uses .308 bullets just like all the .30 cal NATO cartridges, which is why I like it. It is right in the middle between .308 and .30-06 case-wise. It's a very versatile round once the brass issue is overcome. My favorite heavy load is a 180 gr bullet at 2800 fps. Pretty much identical to a 30-06 in a slightly shorter case. |
| Evil Twin
Senior Forum Moderator
User ID: 475169
7/29/2008 3:32 AM
| | Re: Survival Guns discussed | Quote |
Well, it looks like the 6.5x55 Swiss is a wildcat developed from the 7.5, but the 6.5 Swedish was a production cartridge based on an entirely different case. That will teach me to run my mouth! ;) |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 148352
7/29/2008 10:04 AM | | Re: Survival Guns discussed | Quote |
Working Rifle loads:
The .257Roberts is the 6mmLee necked up. It is a Premier open country whitetail ctg and antelope ctg. Lots of fine bullets in .25cal. The 250-3000 is the parent case for the .220-250; many fine wildcats on this one. .257Weatherby is a great plains animal big game ctg. The .25-06 is also a super performer, but burns barrels.
6.5mm is begining big game caliber. 260Reminton, 6.5Grendel, .6.5-06, 6.5Rem mag, and the .260Winchester Mag. are all .264 diameter bullets. These are great for longrange shooting and lighter big game, though some are elk suitable. All are barrel burners except the Grendel and the military 6.5Swiss which is a Superb Longrange ctg and all-around performer. Quoting: Lester
The .257 Roberts is a tack driver in the right rifle, however even the +P commercial loadings are "light" due to the lever rifles this was chambered in, the parent case was the 7 X 57 Mauser although the final Remington round in 1934 differed in some respects.
One varmint rifle I had years ago would make 5 shot ragged holes at 200 yards with 87 grain Sierra's at 3450 fps over the chronograph, my best night shot was taken with this combination on a fox at 480 yards measured.
Note that the 6mm Remington is the .257 Roberts necked down to .244 and while a better handloaders cartridge it does not have the popularity of the .243 Win.
One cartridge missing from the 6.5mm roundup is the 6.5 X 55 Swedish Mauser, versatile and popular in Europe it has a following in America also. |
| Prof_Rabbit
User ID: 148352
7/29/2008 10:16 AM | | Re: Survival Guns discussed | Quote |
That's me above, seem to have timed out.
Yes the 6.5x55mm Krag, 6.5x55mm Swedish Mauser, 6,5x55mm Mauser are all the same round, developed by Norway and Sweden as a joint venture in the 1890's. Surplus Mauser 96 rifles can be found cheaply, while not as famous as the 98 these rifles are beautifully made.
"Anger is a wind that blows out the lamp of your mind" |
| Prof_Rabbit
User ID: 148352
7/29/2008 10:26 AM | | Re: Survival Guns discussed | Quote |
Not wanting to enter the 30 cal debate I will however say that the 30-06 is one of the most proven hunting and sniper rounds to date and is the parent of both the .270 and the 25-06.
"Anger is a wind that blows out the lamp of your mind" |
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