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Eastern Europe gets jittery over Russia
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Ivan
User ID: 487582
8/19/2008 2:01 PM | | Re: Eastern Europe gets jittery over Russia | Quote |
as one of my american friend said about all that tiny eastern european freaks
that's it Quoting: Ivan 487582
add-on: tiny nazi freaks |
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Nightshade 09
User ID: 487584
8/19/2008 2:14 PM
 | | Re: Eastern Europe gets jittery over Russia | Quote |
You just don't get it.
We want to be left alone by your nation! We don't want to be apart of your empire! We have been screaming that at you for over 100 years!
This time Ivan it won't be that easy crossing our borders. Do it an NATO with Nukes if need be. Will behind us.
The fate of your people lay in your hands, Ivan if you care about your people your family your country.
You will work with your people to remove this INSANE Putin from office. Because if you don't and he gets any ideas of touching Poland, the Baltics or Ukraine for that matter.
Your people will be GONE! In matter of Nuclear flash.
This isn't Tsarist Russian Empire, Ivan
This isn't 20th Century and the Soviet Union Days.
If Putin and those Oligarchs in Moscow think otherwise.
Your people will be suffering radiation burns.
The choice is yours Ivan. Choose wisely for a change.
We're not the ones marching over your borders are we? Russia has past and is doing it again!
You always look at the past instead of looking to the future. That's stupid
Russia would invite you only if it needed for our safety not because of your democracy or whatever americans used to justify their military actions
Your people problem is that you want to be a player in the fight for global domination but you only a fucking nobody in the middle of fucking nowhere as one of my american friend said about all that tiny eastern european freaks
that's it Quoting: Ivan 487582
"In a time of deceit telling the truth is revolutionary act." - George Orwell |
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Nightshade 09
User ID: 487584
8/19/2008 2:25 PM
| | Re: Eastern Europe gets jittery over Russia | Quote |
[link to georgiandaily.com]
What Is Russia Afraid Of?
SLATE
August 18, 2008
The spread of freedom and the West standing up to it
By Anne Applebaum
Forty years ago this week, on the night of Aug. 20 and early morning of Aug. 21, 1968, thousands of tanks and hundreds of thousands of soldiers rolled into Czechoslovakia. The goal of the invasion was straightforward: to prevent a Soviet satellite from carrying out democratic reforms, which, if they had been allowed to succeed, could have threatened the legitimacy of the governments of the other Soviet satellites and, indeed, of the Soviet Union itself.
Superficially, it has to be said that the events of August 1968 do bear some resemblance to the events of August 2008, as the American secretary of state has already observed. For yes, not only are there again tanks with Russian commanders rolling over the territory of another sovereign country, some of the invaders' intentions are similar. Once again, Russia is punishing a former satellite whose reforms, if successful, could challenge its own political system.
True, Russia is no longer Soviet. But its ruling clique, led by former President and current Prime Minister Vladimir Putin, remains steeped in the paranoid, highly controlled, conspiracy-obsessed culture of the old KGB. He and his entourage are not Communists, but neither do they believe in free markets or free societies. Instead, all important decisions must be made in Moscow by a small, unelected group of people who know how to resist sabotage organized from abroad. Events cannot be allowed to just happen; they must be controlled and manipulated. Elections cannot just take place; they must be determined in advance.
The Russian state's open hostility, not only toward Georgia but also toward Ukraine and the Baltic states, is, in this sense, partly ideological. Genuine elections have taken place in all these countries; people who have not been preselected by the ruling oligarchy sometimes gain wealth or power. Georgia's Rose Revolution and Ukraine's Orange Revolution even involved street demonstrations that helped unseat more-oligarchic regimes. Thus it is not pure nationalism, nor mere traditional great-power arrogance, that makes the Russian leadership disdainful of Georgia and Ukraine: It is also, at some level, fear that similar voter revolutions could someday challenge Russia, too.
Nevertheless, the word superficial is worth repeating here: As I've written before, I don't really like historical analogies, which can conceal as much as they reveal. For one thing, the ethnic conflict that sparked the Georgian president's foolhardy response and the Russian invasion two weeks ago has been twisted and manipulated, but it nevertheless involves real people. Any long-term solution to the current crisis has to find some accommodation for the South Ossetians whose homes and livelihoods have been destroyed in the exchange of fire.
More important, though, the international situation is utterly different. Despite some misty-eyed memories of alleged Cold War decisiveness, we had, back in 1968, neither the will nor the ability to help its victims. Our only real response to the Soviet invasion was a bit of public spluttering. Most of Europe was still recovering from the "events of 1968," the student uprisings celebrated across the Continent earlier this year in a haze of post-radical nostalgia.
Today's Russian leaders, despite the paranoia they learned in KGB training, have far more profound relationships with Western institutions, not only the G-8 and the Council of Europe but the Western banks and companies that invest their money and manage their property. Today's Europe is theoretically better prepared to engage Russia, though it has not done so until now. On Aug. 8, I wrote that the West, which failed for many years to address the security vacuum in the Caucasus, would have no influence over Russia, and in the short term this has proved true. Despite a cease-fire brokered by France, Russian troops are withdrawing very slowly, if at all. We have no military means to force them out and should not pretend otherwise.
But if this turns into a long-term conflict, if the Russian military remains in Georgia proper, if this proves to be only the first of more incursions into other neighboring states, there are relationships we have and meaningful levers we can use, whether over Russian membership in international institutions or Russian leaders' luxury apartments in Paris—if, of course, we are willing to use them. The critical question now is whether the West is prepared to behave like the West, to speak with one voice and create a common trans-Atlantic policy. In recent years, Russia has preferred to deal with Western countries and their leaders one by one. Just last week, an affiliate of Gazprom, the Russian state-dominated gas company, added a former Finnish prime minister to its payroll—which already includes former German Chancellor Gerhard Schröder. If we hang together instead of allowing Gazprom to pick us all off separately, there is at least a chance that this minichill won't last another 40 years.
Anne Applebaum is a Washington Post and Slate columnist. Her most recent book is Gulag: A History.
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"In a time of deceit telling the truth is revolutionary act." - George Orwell |
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Estland
User ID: 487341
8/19/2008 2:25 PM | | Re: Eastern Europe gets jittery over Russia | Quote |
Estlander, its gone beyond the Georgia Ossetia thing don't you think? Its gone beyond the NWO chess board. Quoting: Nightshade 09
I agree!
It is no longer about the "oh-so-holy, innocent and freedom-loving" RuSSia just trying to survive and oppose the evil Western takeover of it's surrounding countries.
It is now about RuSSia coming out with her own agendas.
And one of them being is to restore RuSSia's influence in areas where it once had it. And the Russian minority in those countries serves as one of their means to get it.
Believe it or not, but a lot of Russians in Estonia know it full well that RuSSia doesn't really care about them. For Moscow, the Russian minority in it's former occupied countries is nothing else but a political tool.
It is time for the blu-eyed West to open it's eyes and see RuSSia for what it really is.
I doubt that RuSSia would really like to test NATO's slogan, so to speak - "one for all, all for one" by attacking the Baltics. But should they do it, i am not totally convinced they(NATO) would risk an all out war for us.
Of course, should that scenario happen, NATO would cease to exist, as no one would see a point in being in that organization anymore.
So, when it comes to the security of Eastern Europe and the Baltics, then we only have ourselves to truly rely on, as America is too stretched out right now, and the rest of Europe is nothing but a bunch of cowards.
When we joined our forces in the event of a Russian attack, we'd be a force to reckon with (Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Ukraine, Romania, Bulgaria, Hungary, Slovakia, Zcech Republic) |
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Ivan
User ID: 487582
8/19/2008 2:30 PM | | Re: Eastern Europe gets jittery over Russia | Quote |
When we joined our forces in the event of a Russian attack, we'd be a force to reckon with (Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Ukraine, Romania, Bulgaria, Hungary, Slovakia, Zcech Republic) Quoting: Estland 487341
The bunch of patent losers |
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Anonymous Coward
User ID: 444738
8/19/2008 2:37 PM | | Re: Eastern Europe gets jittery over Russia | Quote |
Another paranoid thread by Nightshade. |
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ESTLAND
User ID: 487341
8/19/2008 2:40 PM | | Re: Eastern Europe gets jittery over Russia | Quote |
as one of my american friend said about all that tiny eastern european freaks
that's it
add-on: tiny nazi freaks Quoting: Ivan 487582
Oh my, so it's the Eastern Europeans that are Nazis eh?
Why is internet FILLED with articles about RuSSian Nazis, and youtube FILLED with videos about RuSSian Nazis and their "heroic" actions of beating up non-Russians"
You idiots actually FILM yourselves, post it for the whole world to see, and then an idiot like you comes out and actually accuses Eastern Europeans as being Nazis.
Enjoy:
[link to www.youtube.com] |
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ESTLAND
User ID: 487341
8/19/2008 2:42 PM | | Re: Eastern Europe gets jittery over Russia | Quote |
When we joined our forces in the event of a Russian attack, we'd be a force to reckon with (Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Ukraine, Romania, Bulgaria, Hungary, Slovakia, Zcech Republic)
The bunch of patent losers Quoting: Ivan 487582
Yeah, losers with living standards WAY higher than yours.
Tell me, why is it that a nation with most recourses in the world is one of the poorest? |
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ESTLAND
User ID: 487341
8/19/2008 2:46 PM | | Re: Eastern Europe gets jittery over Russia | Quote |
Another paranoid thread by Nightshade. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 444738
I bet you wouldn't be saying that if you had been born and lived in Latvia, or any other former Soviet slave state, your whole life.
It's real easy to spout nonsense like that when comfortably and safely living thousands of miles away from Russia's borders, isn't it? |
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Ivan
User ID: 487582
8/19/2008 2:47 PM | | Re: Eastern Europe gets jittery over Russia | Quote |
tiny nazy freaks losers
Old Europe is not cowards, they are just not stupid and look to the future
Nobody needs troubles there for nothing |
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Ivan
User ID: 487582
8/19/2008 2:53 PM | | Re: Eastern Europe gets jittery over Russia | Quote |
Tell me, why is it that a nation with most recourses in the world is one of the poorest? Quoting: ESTLAND 487341
It's to be fixed in nearest future
BTW not sure your live standards are much higher. Anyway it's easier to achieve higher standards in small state with 2.5 mln population. |
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89446
User ID: 464964
8/19/2008 2:55 PM
 | | Re: Eastern Europe gets jittery over Russia | Quote |
When we joined our forces in the event of a Russian attack, we'd be a force to reckon with (Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Ukraine, Romania, Bulgaria, Hungary, Slovakia, Zcech Republic)
The bunch of patent losers Quoting: Ivan 487582
Hey Ivan, are you for real or what?
The user you quoted said IN THE EVENT OF A RUSSIAN ATTACK. Not "to attack Russia". To resist IN THE EVENT OF A RUSSIAN ATTACK.
And you reply "bunch of patent losers".
That speaks volumes about the Russian attitude. |
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Anonymous Coward
User ID: 461373
8/19/2008 2:56 PM | | Re: Eastern Europe gets jittery over Russia | Quote |
How many of this assholes spam threads are you clowns going to pin??????? |
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ESTLAND
User ID: 487341
8/19/2008 2:57 PM | | Re: Eastern Europe gets jittery over Russia | Quote |
tiny nazy freaks losers Quoting: Ivan 487582
Oh, i think it's you Russkis that are the losers as you eventually ALWAYS lose. A regime set out to occupy and destroy can't and will not last for long.
Old Europe is not cowards, they are just not stupid and look to the future
Nobody needs troubles there for nothing Quoting: Ivan 487582
And what future can there be with an evil power like Russia at your door step? |
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Nightshade 09
User ID: 487584
8/19/2008 2:59 PM
| | Re: Eastern Europe gets jittery over Russia | Quote |
My Dad used to tell me stories about the battle in Novigrad..
How the Russian Commanders would would send three lines deep of infantry at them. Of course the Russians would give guns to the last row only and use the first to as cannon flooder if not the Soviet Political Officer would blow of their heads.
None the less the Legion had to fire at them. Often the machine gun barrels would get so hot the bullets would melt as they came out, they had to pop them out and replace them five or six times. Until all the Russians were dead.
Being the middle of Russian winter, they froze rock soild where they fell.. (Soviets didn't even bother picking their men off the fields just left them to rot) Those that had not died but were wounded in the mounds of bodies. Would be picked off by wild wolves feasting upon them at night.
Dad told me Novgorod was HELL ON EARTH. There were Russian dead piled up in some places 10 feet deep. They had to use bulldozers to clear a path threw the body mounds. Because the tank threads would slip and side off the bodies tearing them to pieces..
Careful Ivan you don't want to end up in one of those future mounds.
"In a time of deceit telling the truth is revolutionary act." - George Orwell |
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Ivan
User ID: 487582
8/19/2008 3:00 PM | | Re: Eastern Europe gets jittery over Russia | Quote |
And what future can there be with an evil power like Russia at your door step? Quoting: ESTLAND 487341
It's evil only in your stupid mind loser |
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89446
User ID: 464964
8/19/2008 3:00 PM
| | Re: Eastern Europe gets jittery over Russia | Quote |
The problem is no shy
It needless.
ONCE THEY POOR SMALL BASTARDS FOUND OUT THERE IS NO A BIG BOY BEHIND THEY BECAME PUSSIES AS THEY WERE IN 1940 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 487582
Well if you want to use this big boy vs. small boy logic, the South Ossetians are way pussier than the Georgians. If it weren't for big boy Putin to save their sorry little arses the Georgians would have restored law and order in that separatist region. |
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ESTLAND
User ID: 487341
8/19/2008 3:04 PM | | Re: Eastern Europe gets jittery over Russia | Quote |
BTW not sure your live standards are much higher. Anyway it's easier to achieve higher standards in small state with 2.5 mln population. Quoting: Ivan 487582
Oh, believe me. Estonia's living standards are WAY WAY higher. In fact, they are as different as day and night. Come to Estonia and be prepared to be blown away, my Russki friend.
True, smaller countries are easier to build up, but it's also about mentality of the nation and it's priorities.
Russia's top priorities, unfortunately, are very different.
It's the military aspect that has the top priority in your neck of the woods. Making things better for the people is way secondary. |
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Anonymous Coward
User ID: 459297
8/19/2008 3:04 PM | | Re: Eastern Europe gets jittery over Russia | Quote |
Russians are just an emotionally immature group of namecallers.
It must be all those years without proper debate. |
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Ivan
User ID: 487582
8/19/2008 3:05 PM | | Re: Eastern Europe gets jittery over Russia | Quote |
Well if you want to use this big boy vs. small boy logic, the South Ossetians are way pussier than the Georgians. If it weren't for big boy Putin to save their sorry little arses the Georgians would have restored law and order in that separatist region. Quoting: 89446
Ossetians are heroes. They stood 24 hours against the whole overhelming georgian military. And they were not sure that Russia comes to help them. |
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Ivan
User ID: 487582
8/19/2008 3:07 PM | | Re: Eastern Europe gets jittery over Russia | Quote |
Тупор&am p;#1099;лый чухон& #1077;ц, ты все равно отсос& #1077;шь, повер& #1100; мне |
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ESTLAND
User ID: 487341
8/19/2008 3:08 PM | | Re: Eastern Europe gets jittery over Russia | Quote |
And what future can there be with an evil power like Russia at your door step?
It's evil only in your stupid mind loser Quoting: Ivan 487582
It's quite the opposite, actually. It is good in YOUR stupid mind, loser. |
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Anonymous Coward
User ID: 487032
8/19/2008 3:09 PM | | Re: Eastern Europe gets jittery over Russia | Quote |
Dad told me Novgorod was HELL ON EARTH. There were Russian dead piled up in some places 10 feet deep. They had to use bulldozers to clear a path threw the body mounds. Because the tank threads would slip and side off the bodies tearing them to pieces..
Careful Ivan you don't want to end up in one of those future mounds. Quoting: Nightshade 09
Your mind is truly sick. Ivan or John, Olga or Helga, for God's sake, stop this. |
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Nightshade 09
User ID: 487584
8/19/2008 3:15 PM
| | Re: Eastern Europe gets jittery over Russia | Quote |
No just stating Military History Fact:
The Kurland Kettle was the bloodiest and costliest Battles of Military History. The Russians lost more men there then at any other front line in history.
All because they wanted to invade the Baltic States and came up against Baltic divisions.
As I said we Balts want Peace! If Russians want that its up to THEM to make it happen.
Nightshade 09
Its what the Russians will face again if they provoke WWIII.
Dad told me Novgorod was HELL ON EARTH. There were Russian dead piled up in some places 10 feet deep. They had to use bulldozers to clear a path threw the body mounds. Because the tank threads would slip and side off the bodies tearing them to pieces..
Careful Ivan you don't want to end up in one of those future mounds.
Your mind is truly sick. Ivan or John, Olga or Helga, for God's sake, stop this. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 487032
"In a time of deceit telling the truth is revolutionary act." - George Orwell |
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Anonymous Coward
User ID: 487582
8/19/2008 3:18 PM | | Re: Eastern Europe gets jittery over Russia | Quote |
No just stating Military History Fact:
The Kurland Kettle was the bloodiest and costliest Battles of Military History. The Russians lost more men there then at any other front line in history.
All because they wanted to invade the Baltic States and came up against Baltic divisions. Quoting: Nightshade 09
 |
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ESTLAND
User ID: 487341
8/19/2008 3:19 PM | | Re: Eastern Europe gets jittery over Russia | Quote |
Ossetians are heroes. They stood 24 hours against the whole overhelming georgian military. And they were not sure that Russia comes to help them. Quoting: Ivan 487582
I am really having hard time believing that all of a sudden, in the middle of the night, Georgian troops just started bombing the whole city and not caring one bit who they killed.
I mean, why would they do that? They would know full well that all international support on their cause would be lost if they were found to be so ruthlessly killing civilians.
Their aim, most definitely, was to crush the Ossetian militia.
Unfortunately a lot of civilians also died in the process, but not 2000 as claims the Russian propaganda machine, as Human Rights Organizations have determined that Russian figures are way exaggerated.
And if RuSSia wanted to intervene, then why not just kick the Georgians out of the disputed territories? Why act like an aggressor, walk into a sovereign state, and start destroying their infrastructure?
Shame on you, Russkis, Shame! |
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Anonymous Coward
User ID: 459297
8/19/2008 3:20 PM | | Re: Eastern Europe gets jittery over Russia | Quote |
Russians lost 18 million people in WWII. And that was victory. |
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Anonymous Coward
User ID: 487032
8/19/2008 3:28 PM | | Re: Eastern Europe gets jittery over Russia | Quote |
Russians lost 18 million people in WWII. And that was victory. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 459297
the death toll will be billions if we do not stop accusing each other. tensions rise high, I understand, but have we all completely lost our mind? |
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Ivan
User ID: 487582
8/19/2008 3:33 PM | | Re: Eastern Europe gets jittery over Russia | Quote |
OK
let's calm down
The problem is that the picture of the conflict and Russia reasons are far more comlex than my eastern european friends could even imagine
You guys are paranoid in some ways, sorry |
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Anonymous Coward
User ID: 487032
8/19/2008 3:37 PM | | Re: Eastern Europe gets jittery over Russia | Quote |
OK
let's calm down
The problem is that the picture of the conflict and Russia reasons are far more comlex than my eastern european friends could even imagine
You guys are paranoid in some ways, sorry Quoting: Ivan 487582
ok, in other words, Ivan offers truce and negotiation. Shady and others, your step? |
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