The Kurland Kettle was the bloodiest and costliest Battles of Military History. The Russians lost more men there then at any other front line in history.
All because they wanted to invade the Baltic States and came up against Baltic divisions.
As I said we Balts want Peace! If Russians want that its up to THEM to make it happen.
Nightshade 09
It was 32 German divisions and 1 Latvian division. How many German divisions do you have now?
Quoting: Anonymous Coward 232336
They were liberated, obviously. That;s gratitude for you.
It amazes me that you keep on coming back to Stalin this,Lenin that,Iron curtain,bla bla bla.
2008 - New Russia,new leaders but still old customs it seems,it saddens me to see that most people still see the great country through the eyes of the 1950's...
In the end, resistance will be crushed.
We are not to be thrifled with.
"With the fall of the Russian empire in 1991, the last Russian troops withdrew from Latvia at the end of August 1994. In October of 1994 the Friedrich Ebert Foundation of Germany commissioned a poll of Russian military officers. Among the questions was one that asked the respondents to rank foreign states according to the threat they posed to Russia . That a German foundation should put this question to Russian soldiers a half century after the horrendously brutal war between Germany and Russia was understandable.
5. United States of America.
4. Estonia
3. Lithuania
2. Afghanistan
1. Latvia
The grand prize - went to Latvia . Forty nine percent of the officers polled considered Latvia to be their chief enemy. A country with a population of fewer than 3 million was deemed the principal foe of a state with some 150 million people. Another Poll taken in 2005, the Russians still put Latvia and the Baltics as Russia's number one enemy . This comes from a nation known to have murderd over 50 million people since 1919 (with no one being prosecuted) and terrorized many more."
In the very last days of World War II. As both the Russians and Americans encircled Berlin. Hitler called for the BEST of the German Divisions to defend the city, He didn't call upon German one (most of them were destroyed anyway by then) He re-called the 15th Division of the Latvian Legion from the Eastern Front.
On In May of 1945 their numbers were down to 88 men. None the less. The 15th Division HELD OFF both the American ARMY and Red ARMY for TWO WEEKS with just 88 men. Were talking about 100,s of thousands of men being held off for two weeks by Eighty Eight men! It was the Commander of the 15th Division that former ally surrendered to the Americans on behalf of a defeated Germany. He's in the history books and he was Latvian 15th Divison Commander.
The remains of 19th Division of Latvian Legion when on to fight the Soviets as Partisans in Latvia up to 1956. My Father was apart of the 19th Division that in the last days of World War II was sent back in hospital to Germany. Its how he survived the War.
In August 1945 He (as were 100s of Latvian Legion) were approached by the OSI (Later C.I.A) literally in the Displaced Persons Refugee Camps. He was offered at time a six figure salery and a life in America if he became a Intelligence Operative for Americans against the Soviets.
My Father refused (be bacame a Pacifist After the War remained so his last days) but others did not. An Thats How The C.I.A was born under Operation Paper Clip.
An how my family ended up in America and not Germany.
Today out of the TOP 15 commanders and general for N.A.T.O in The Baltic Sea Area. 8 are Latvian or Latvian American. It will be they leading the assult against The Russian Federation troops if it comes to fighting.
The Russians know this and they know their history of what happened to them at Kurzeme Kettle when they went up against Latvian 19th Division. They lost 320,000 men 2200 plus tanks in a matter of weeks.
The Russian Generals even though they have some gall and balls to boost loudly. KNOW if tehy attempt to go into Poland or the Baltic States. They will be walking into a sucide mission. They won't come out of alive. ;) Beyond the Saber Rattling they are not Stupid and won't go into Poland if they can help it.
But if Putin thinks he's demi-God and wants to try.. Be my guest come! :)
Until then We Latvians Will go back to doing what we love to be doing instead of War.. Singing! :)
Auli, Latvian Pagan Bagpipe Band Enjoy! ;)
Nightshade 09
It amazes me that you keep on coming back to Stalin this,Lenin that,Iron curtain,bla bla bla.
2008 - New Russia,new leaders but still old customs it seems,it saddens me to see that most people still see the great country through the eyes of the 1950's...
In the end, resistance will be crushed.
We are not to be thrifled with.
Quoting: Red Star 487904
"In a time of deceit telling the truth is revolutionary act." - George Orwell
Come Red Star.. Come to Riga We'll give you a Warm Welcome One you'll soon not forget or future Russian history ;) "In a time of deceit telling the truth is revolutionary act." - George Orwell
Anonymous Coward User ID: 266209 8/19/2008 11:42 PM
Russia says troops to leave Georgia by Friday
20 Aug 2008 01:14:03 GMT
Source: Reuters
The Kremlin quoted Medvedev as telling French President Nicolas Sarkozy by telephone that most Russian forces would withdraw to Russia or to South Ossetia by Aug. 22, leaving some troops in a buffer zone around the breakaway region.
Medvedev also told Sarkozy he agreed to the presence of observers from the Organisation for Security and Cooperation in Europe in the buffer zone, a separate French statement said.
NATO ministers, meeting in emergency session in Brussels on Tuesday, agreed to suspend regular contacts with Russia. But they did not announce moves to speed up Georgian accession to the Western military alliance, as Tbilisi had hoped.
Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said NATO's response to the conflict was biased and accused the Atlantic alliance of siding with a "criminal regime" in Tbilisi.
You know that is what Russia wants. Russia uses what old military apparatus, tanks and old shit like that, that they have to bomb the shit out of a poor country like Georgia simply because the Georgia leader is out of touch with reality and made a mistake, and so Russia hopes by destroying a country like Georgia that other countries will say to themselves, "Gee, I better not piss of that country from Hell Russia or I may get attacked and destroyed like Georgia".
Well I think that Russia is clinging to the classical hope of bullies everywhere. BUT, when people and nations work together they are stronger than any BULLY and can defeat the bully. So Poland, Ukraine, Moldova and the Czech Republic need to work together to defeat the bully bear Russia. And it can be done. There is strength in numbers. Maybe Russia with their shitty army can crush one country or maybe two but the third and fourth and fifth country will be able to rise up and cram the Russian tanks down the attacking Russian throats and win freedom for posterity.
:flagwaver:
Anonymous Coward User ID: 364572 8/20/2008 12:26 AM
The underlying problem with the Russians is a very old old one.
Simply put Russians have always felt as if they are not respected by Europe and in part the rest of the world. it’s a part of feeling ‘inadequate’ They feel as if the rest of world looks down upon them. Harkens back to Tsarist court of Peter the Great and Catharine the Great and later Tsars. They attempted desperately to “fit in” with the rest of Europe to the point that the Tsars copied their Palaces from those such as the German and English monarchs even Western Dress.
Meanwhile as the Tsars literally sucked the weath out of Russia with a vacum cleaner. The poor Russian people were left in such poverty and neglect as un imaginable to Westerners.
By the time of the Russian Revolution in 1918. 80% of the Russian people were living below the poverty line and up 70% illiteracy rate. Meanwhile Tsarist children where literally sledding down the Grand staircases of St.Petersburg (Winter Palace) sitting on GOLD serving platters from the dinning halls. Outside the gates the rest of Russia was living in middle ages serfdom. You can’t really blame the Russians for “offing” the Tsar or Monarchist Russia after having to endure such a life (btw the leading of the Russian Monarchist Families and ‘Noble’ Families were the Rothschild’s.”) They put their Hopes and Dreams naively and mistakenly into Marxist Communism which promised Utopia Equality and Justice for everyone. But first a bloody Revolution and redistribution of well. On paper it would have been a “Workers Paradise” but in a matter of years under Lenin they realized that they had just replaced one Tsar with another and went back to collective farms as peasants.
(If people want to know what the N.W.O will do to the United States how America will look in the future just study Tsarist Russian History)
They came out of the First Revolution realizing that thanks to Tsars and their exploitation of the Russian People. That Russia was at least 200-300 years behind their European Counter Parts. An its been “catch up” ever since.
Their own internal feelings of feeling inadequate with the rest of Europe have boiled and simmered for some 400 years now. They are like little kids.. In a lot of ways. They feel if they Bully West that they’ll be “Respected” … Being the Bullies gives them pride back home. Being the Bully the top boy in the school yard sand box.. They feel it gives them Respect in the West.. When the actual case is very much opposite they are laughed at by the average man and women on the Street in Western World. Their own Bullying is seen for what it is? A hurt child lashing out.
The sad part is that it doesn’t have to be this way.
Culturally and as People. The Russians are one of the most Richest Culture and People out there. From the beauty of St Petersburg down to those rural Russian country folk singing their cultural folk songs and storytelling around the communal campfire. They are rich and beautiful people too always have been!
But their Governments of Oligarchs of Tsars and wanna be Tsars like Putin make them the enemy of the world and worse laughing stocks of the world as they goose step the troops down Red Square..
Nightshade 09 "In a time of deceit telling the truth is revolutionary act." - George Orwell
Rice to sign missile defense deal with Poland
VANESSA GERA ASSOCIATED PRESS
Originally published 12:14 a.m., August 20, 2008, updated 12:13 a.m., August 20, 2008
WARSAW, POLAND (AP) - Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice plans Wednesday to sign a deal to build a U.S. missile defense base on Polish soil, an agreement that has already prompted an infuriated Russia to threaten its former Soviet satellite.
The deal to install 10 U.S. interceptor missiles just 115 miles from Russia's westernmost frontier also has strained relations between Moscow and the West, ties that already troubled by Russia's invasion of its former Soviet neighbor, U.S. ally Georgia, earlier this month.
Rice flew to Poland Tuesday after meeting with NATO foreign ministers in Brussels, Belgium, where the military allies agreed to suspend formal contacts with Russia as punishment for the Georgia conflict, but resisted U.S. pressure for more severe penalties.
The U.S. says the missile defense system is aimed at protecting the U.S. and Europe from future attacks from states like Iran. Moscow insists that it is a threat to Russia.
After Warsaw and Washington announced the agreement on the deal last week, top Russian Gen. Anatoly Nogovitsyn warned that Poland is risking attack, and possibly a nuclear one, by deploying the American missile defense system, Russia's Interfax news agency reported.
Poles have been shaken by the threats, but NATO Secretary General Jaap de Hoop dismissed them Tuesday as "pathetic rhetoric."
"It is unhelpful and it leads nowhere," he told reporters at the NATO meeting.
Many Poles consider the agreement a form of protection at a time when Russia's actions in Georgia have generated alarm throughout Eastern Europe. Poland is a member of the European Union and NATO, and the deal is expected to deepen its military partnership with Washington.
Polish President Lech Kaczynski said Wednesday will be "an important day in our history."
He stressed that the missile defense shield was purely a defensive system and not a threat.
"For that reason, no one who has good intentions toward us and toward the Western world should be afraid of it," he said.
Poland and the United States spent a year and a half negotiating, and talks recently had snagged on Poland's demands that the U.S. bolster Polish security with Patriot missiles in exchange for hosting the missile defense base.
Washington agreed to do so last week, as Poland invoked the Georgia conflict to strengthen its case.
The Patriots are meant to protect Poland from short-range missiles from neighbors _ such as Russia.
The U.S. already has reached an agreement with the government in Prague to place the second component of the missile defense shield _ a radar tracking system _ in the Czech Republic, Poland's southwestern neighbor and another formerly communist country.
Approval is still needed the Czech and Polish parliaments.
No date has been set for the Polish parliament to consider the agreement, but it should face no difficulties in Warsaw, where it enjoys the support of the largest opposition party as well as the government. "In a time of deceit telling the truth is revolutionary act." - George Orwell
Thursday, Aug. 14, 2008
Staring Down the Russians
By Zbigniew Brzezinski
The end of the Cold War was supposed to usher in a new age in which the major powers would no longer dictate to their neighbors how to run their affairs. That is why Russia's invasion of Georgia is so tragic and so potentially ominous. Russia is now on watch: Will it continue to rely on coercion to achieve its imperial aims or is it willing to work within the emerging international system that values cooperation and consensus?
Moscow's ruthless attempt to suborn, subdue and subordinate this tiny, independent democracy is reminiscent of Stalin's times. The assault on Georgia is similar to what Stalin's Soviet Union did to Finland in 1939: in both cases, Moscow engaged in an arbitrary, brutal and irresponsible use of force to impose domination over a weaker, democratic neighbor. The question now is whether the global community can demonstrate to the Kremlin that there are costs for the blatant use of force on behalf of anachronistic imperialist goals.
This conflict has been brewing for years. Russia has deliberately instigated the breakup of Georgian territory. Moscow has promoted secessionist activities in several Georgian provinces: Abkhazia, Ajaria and, of course, South Ossetia. It has sponsored rebellious governments in these territories, armed their forces and even bestowed Russian citizenship on the secessionists. These efforts have intensified since the emergence in Georgia of a democratic, pro-Western government. Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin's resentment toward Georgia and its President, the U.S.-educated Mikheil Saakashvili, has seemingly become a personal obsession.
The international community has not done enough to push back. In recent weeks, a series of incidents along the fragile cease-fire lines that cut across Georgian territory helped prompt the escalation of violence, including Georgia's abortive effort to remove the "government" of South Ossetia, a small region with a population of about 70,000 people. That rash action was perhaps unwise, but it is evident from Russia's military response that Moscow was waiting for such an act to provide a pretext for the use of force. Large Russian contingents quickly swept into South Ossetia and then into Georgia, sending tanks to Gori and bombing Gori and the capital, Tbilisi.
Russia's aggression toward Georgia should not be viewed as an isolated incident. The fact is, Putin and his associates in the Kremlin don't accept the post-Soviet realities. Putin was sincere when he declared some time ago that in his view, the dissolution of the Soviet Union was "the greatest geopolitical disaster of the [20th] century." Independent democracies like Georgia and Ukraine, for the Putin regime, are not only historical anomalies, but also represent a direct political threat.
Ukraine could well be the next flash point. The Russian leadership has already openly questioned whether it needs to respect Ukraine's territorial integrity. Russian leaders have also remarked that Crimea, a part of Ukraine, should once again be joined to Russia. Similarly, Russian pressure on Moldova led to the effective partition of that small former Soviet republic. Moscow is also continuing to try to economically isolate central Asian neighbors like Kazakhstan and Uzbekistan. And the Baltic nations of Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia have been the object of various threats from Russia, including economic sanctions and disruptive cyberwarfare.
The stakes are high. Ultimately, the independence of the post-Soviet states is at risk. Russia seems committed to the notion that there should be some sort of supranational entity, governed from the Kremlin, that would oversee much of the former Soviet territories. This attitude reflects in part the intense nationalistic mood that now permeates Russia's political élite. Vladimir Putin, former President and now Prime Minister, is riding this nationalist wave, exploiting it politically and propagating it with the Russian public. Some now even talk of a renewed Russian military presence in Cuba as a form of retaliation against the U.S. for its support of the independence of the post-Soviet states.
For the West, especially the U.S., the conflict between Russia and Georgia poses both moral and geostrategic challenges. The moral dimension is self-evident: a small country that gained its independence only recently, after almost two centuries of Russian domination, deserves international support that goes beyond simple declarations of sympathy. Then there are questions of geostrategy. An independent Georgia is critical to the international flow of oil. A pipeline for crude oil now runs from Baku in Azerbaijan, on the Caspian Sea, through Georgia to the Turkish Mediterranean coast. The link provides the West access to the energy resources of central Asia. If that access is cut, the Western world will lose an important opportunity to diversify its sources of energy.
The West needs to respond to Russia's aggression in a clear and determined manner. That doesn't mean with force. Nor should it fall into a new cold war with Russia. But the West, particularly the U.S., should continue to mobilize the international community to condemn Russia's behavior. Presidential candidates Barack Obama (whom I support) and John McCain should endorse President George W. Bush's efforts to oppose Russia's actions and form a bipartisan stand on this issue. It is unfortunate that some of the candidates' supporters are engaging in pointless criticism of each other's public statements on the Georgia crisis. This is too important for that.
It is premature to specify what precise measures the West should adopt. But Russia must be made to understand that it is in danger of becoming ostracized internationally. This should be a matter of considerable concern to Russia's new business élite, who are increasingly vulnerable to global financial pressure. Russia's powerful oligarchs have hundreds of billions of dollars in Western bank accounts. They would stand to lose a great deal in the event of a Cold War–style standoff that could conceivably result, at some stage, in the West's freezing of such holdings.
At some point, the West should consider the Olympic option. If the issue of Georgia's territorial integrity is not adequately resolved (by, for example, the deployment in South Ossetia and Abkhazia of a truly independent international security force replacing Russian troops), the U.S. should contemplate withdrawing from the 2014 Winter Games, to be held in the Russian city of Sochi, next to the violated Georgia's frontier. There is a precedent for this. I was part of the Carter Administration when we brandished the Olympic torch as a symbolic weapon in 1980, pulling out of the Summer Games in Moscow after the Russian invasion of Afghanistan. The Soviet Union had planned a propaganda show reminiscent of Hitler's 1936 Olympics in Berlin. America's boycott delivered a body blow to President Leonid Brezhnev and his communist system and prevented Moscow from enjoying a world-class triumph.
The Georgian crisis is a critical test for Russia. If Putin sticks to his guns and subordinates Georgia and removes its freely elected President — something Putin's Foreign Minister has explicitly called for — it is only a question of time before Moscow turns up the heat on Ukraine and the other independent but vulnerable post-Soviet states. The West has to respond carefully but with a moral and strategic focus. Its objective has to be a democratic Russia that is a constructive participant in a global system based on respect for sovereignty, law and democracy. But that objective can be achieved only if the world makes clear to Moscow that a stridently nationalistic Russia will not succeed in any effort to create a new empire in our postimperial age.
Brzezinski, who was National Security Adviser to President Carter, is co-author, with Brent Scowcroft, of America and the World, to be published in September
Copyright � 2008 Time Inc. All rights reserved. Reproduction in whole or in part without permission is prohibited.
Privacy Policy|Add TIME Headlines to your Site|Contact Us|Customer Service "In a time of deceit telling the truth is revolutionary act." - George Orwell
Anonymous Coward User ID: 462242 8/20/2008 3:26 AM
Its their choose of governments that really really stink to high heaven. If they only stopped this "I want to Rule the World Mental Illness Complex" and stopped enslaving Nations.
Quoting: Nightshade 09
LOL
Anonymous Coward User ID: 459297 8/20/2008 4:30 AM
I really love some of Tsar wanna be Putin’s public statements.
That the Russian people can’t handle the freedom and democracy found in the West. That is why Russian history has a long history of Tsar’s and “strong men.” to guide them and lead them in Russian identity.
In short, he’s insulting the Russians he leads basically saying the Russians are too stupid for full Democracy and Freedom and there fore need ‘strong man’ (dictators like him) to take care of them and show them what is Russian identity
Meanwhile Putin has a reported 40 Billion, Billion dollar Swiss Bank Account of all the money he and his cabal has ripped off from the Russian people.
1) Many of the Slavs are hearing all kinds of things from the US. The US is promising them the world. They should look to Saddam Hussein as to what happens to them when the US's use for them is over.
2) Russia should tell the world they are not occupying Georgia, but helping in reconstruction, and Georgia still has its government in place (following the lead of the US in Iraq)
3)While Russia is not without fault in the current situation, it is the kind of fault you find when a bear is being caged in. The bear fights back.
Anonymous Coward User ID: 486272 8/20/2008 6:03 AM
The story is about how Tsar Putin has brought back "Political Youth Indoctrination" Camps where all they do at Camp is Praise Putin as some demi-God and train Russian Youth to become Putin's little storm troopers in the streets!
World
Russian Youth Flock to Pro-Kremlin Summer Camp
by Gregory Feifer
Morning Edition, July 27, 2007 · Thousands of young Russians are spending part of the summer at a camp run by a pro-Kremlin youth group northwest of Moscow.
The group offers standard summer camp fare like singing and swimming, but participants are also required to attend lectures about the greatness of President Vladimir Putin, which some observers say is reminiscent of the Young Pioneer camps of the Soviet Union.
Messages of Greatness
A five-hour drive from Moscow, beautiful Lake Seliger sits amid typical Russian pine and birch forests.
The youth group called Nashi, or "Ours" — best known for staging loud demonstrations in front of foreign embassies — has brought 10,000 campers to the site.
On the surface, Nashi's summer camp looks like any other – campers kayak on the lake or enjoy a game of volleyball. But in the backdrop are large posters lambasting opposition figures, including one comparing U.S. President George Bush to Saddam Hussein.
Some of the claims are clearly false, like one that says German police killed 80 anti-globalization protesters this summer and condemns European democracy. Elsewhere, messages proclaim Russia's greatness, some also picturing intercontinental missiles.
In another part of the camp, the faces of Russian opposition leaders have been superimposed over lingerie-clad female bodies and dubbed "political prostitutes."
Nineteen-year-old camper Kostya Kudinov says the government's critics are "fascists."
"These people are against our motherland. They're ready to do anything to cheat our country. We're against that. We're here to show our concern for Russia and discuss what we can do to improve its future," Kudinov says.
A Cult of Personality
As Nashi members drink tea around their campfires under pro-Putin posters that evoke Communist-era slogan, many campers appear to care little for ideology — another similarity to their Soviet predecessors.
Irina Chechikova, 23, falls into that category. She says she joined Nashi two weeks earlier only to have a chance to attend the camp.
"You can have a really good time here. We go kayaking, rafting, ride bicycles," Chechikova says. "Plus, it's a great atmosphere. Everyone's young. It's a wonderful place!"
But Chechikova admits that it's impossible to ignore what she calls a cult of personality being built around Putin in the political lectures campers must attend. They're also required to make career plans, and state-controlled companies have set up tents where recruiters offer internships to the ostensibly politically loyal teenagers there.
Maintaining Independence
The camp organizers are also pushing a social message. Alcohol has been banned, and some displays exhort campers to propagate and counteract Russia's alarming population decline.
Every morning, after mass calisthenics, loudspeakers announce the day's schedule.
Although it's clear that lavish amounts of money have been spent on tents, posters and the Nashi T-shirts that all campers are required to wear, Nashi's leader Vassilii Yakemenko says the group doesn't get a penny from the Kremlin.
"Our message would be compromised if we weren't completely independent. We want to make sure Russians make their own choices, free of meddling by countries, like the United States, that want to get their hands on our natural resources," Yakemenko says. "But Nashi isn't about scaring anyone. It's about showing Russia to be a great country and getting others to like us."
Independent or not, the Nashi camp has been visited by a stream of top officials, including the two widely believed to be the main contenders to succeed Putin next year. A group of Nashi members recently met the president himself. "In a time of deceit telling the truth is revolutionary act." - George Orwell
Anonymous Coward User ID: 486272 8/20/2008 6:23 AM
Any politician who argues for their own ability to make things better can be said to have a "messianic complex."
All politics employs soteriology, and therefore, all politics is messianic. Indeed, democracy has become the messianic idol for many, with the belief that if you spread democracy, the world will be safe.
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