You will note something very chilling about the Pravda message Forum.
What's missing???? Any one???
ANY discussion about Russian politics. Note Western Forums like GLP or go to British or European. Everyone in West has an opinion on how their governments run their country. Loud sometimes slanderous remarks about Bush or their leader..
At Pravad. Net! Nothing absolutely positively NO discussions going on between average Russians about their leaders. Or critiquing their own government.
In fact ALL of the Pravda forum threads all have a Anti-Amerian, Anti-West theme. An chances are controlled by the State or censored.
One needs to ask why are Russians SILENT about their own government. They most assuredly should have someone that disgruntled about their own government. Why don't they speak up?
Why because they KNOW for a fact Their Government will us it against them and it will be recorded.
The mood has darkened across the whole of Europe Print E-mail
August 20, 2008
THE INDEPENDENT
Wednesday, August 20, 2008
Denis MacShane
After eight years of division within Europe on geo-political strategy, is the Russian Prime Minister, Vladimir Putin, building a new sense of purpose in Europe and between the EU and the US?
Yesterday's Nato meeting saw the hitherto pro-Russian German foreign minister agreeing with the firm line taken by Britain's David Miliband about Russian behaviour both in launching the land, sea and air assault of Georgia and the cynicism with which the Kremlin has ignored its pledges to pull out its tanks and troops.
Far from being a chess match in which the Russian grandmaster knocks a pawn off the board, all of Europe is looking hard at what the Putin doctrine means and it does not like what it sees. Last week, President Sarkozy was patting himself on the back after his high-speed shuttle between Moscow and Tbilisi, while Berlin believed its decision to block Georgia's access to Nato was the correct policy.
Today the mood has darkened. Mr Sarkozy now says Russia must withdraw completely from all of Georgia. Mrs Merkel says Georgia can join Nato. Poland rushes to sign a deal with America on missile defence. Ukraine now moves to the frontline as Kiev looks west to Nato and the EU in Brussels for support, rather than north to Moscow for orders.
The Putin doctrine was summed up avant la lettre by America's post-war expert on Russia, George Kennan. He noted that Russia sees its neighbours as vassals or enemies. Neither Ukraine nor Georgia will accept vassal status. When Poland and the Baltic states sought to join Nato, they were told it might make life awkward for relations with Russia. They joined Nato, then the EU, and have never looked back.
Putin apologists in the West like to blame America and the Bush-Cheney years for worsening relations with Russia. Yet Senator Obama will not allow himself to be outflanked with accusations of being soft on the Kremlin. Putin has given the American arms industry and Democratic as well as Republican neo-cons a perfect opening to launch a new Cold War.
The Kremlin wants to drive a wedge between its neighbours and other European states, and between America and Europe. And in its version of Euroscepticism, Moscow wants to disaggregate EU member states into competing nations that reject EU unity.
How should Europe and Britain respond? David Miliband is seen on the Continent as leader of the EU nations that want firm language. He should now take a lead in forging EU unity on the basis of a policy that could be called Kennan-plus. George Kennan developed the concept of containment in place of the confrontation and "roll-back" advocated by hardliners after the Soviet occupation of half of Europe.
Today we need a containment and co-operation policy with Russia. As Charles Grant of the Centre for European Reform points out, Russia is weaker than Putin's rhetoric implies. It has an unhealthy shrinking population the size of Bangladesh and a GDP per capita lower than Equatorial Guinea.
To be sure, Europe needs Russian oil and gas and Russia needs European investment under FDI. So co-operation aimed at drawing Russia closer to European norms of an open market economy should remain policy. David Cameron is wrong to say visa restrictions should be enforced against Russian businessmen.
But on the political front, it is time to admit that efforts since the early 1990s to be friendly to Russia have failed. Far from the West seeking to humiliate Russia, the doors of every western institution have been opened to Moscow. Her generals sit as observers at Nato meetings. Russians have been made welcome at the Council of Europe.
Russia is European by culture and it is in Europe that the bulk of Russians live. It took many patient years of containment before Sovietism expired. Sadly, Russia has refused the chance to become a full, open, partner of Europe on the basis of democracy, rule of law and respect for European norms and values. A new policy based on as much containment as necessary and as much co-operation as possible is needed.
Conservative neo-con language is as useless as those who find excuses for Putin's doctrine of anti-West aggression. Russia has insisted on asserting national interests and defied international institutions and rules. Britain should fashion a containment-cooperation policy but do so as part of Europe. If not, the sabre-rattlers in both Moscow and Washington will resume their old game.
The writer is a Labour MP and Europe minister, 2002-05 "In a time of deceit telling the truth is revolutionary act." - George Orwell
Anonymous Coward User ID: 459297 8/20/2008 7:30 AM
I went to have a look yesterday and looked in a thread about the Olympics. It was a list of medal winners. It was a non-Russian poster. It had a list of medal winners. The top one was the USA with 79 medals I think. It went down to Russia with 42 medals and the big laughing face was there.
I went back a few minutes later and Russia was changed to USSR with more medals and a bunch of flowers saying congratulations. It may have been a joke but the moderator had hacked into that person's account to do that and it also shows the mentality. That's the Pravda way of doing things.
I know that poster wouldn't have changed it himself.
Anonymous Coward User ID: 459297 8/20/2008 7:36 AM
I can't say for definite that they changed it and he didn't do it himself but they do hack into people's accounts. I know because they hacked into mine.
I was banned for dissing Putin.
Anonymous Coward User ID: 459297 8/20/2008 7:38 AM
Re: Poland signs missile shield deal with U.S. Quote
War is a quick way to reduce the population and that is stated to come about with Agenda 21. The Elite will hide in their underground vaults by the way there is a seed storage one off the coast of Norway, now why do you think they went to all that expense to build it and store all the seeds of the world? To plant again after the nuke attacks happen. These Insiders indeed want WWIII to decrease the population.
Quoting: Anonymous Coward 479939
I think that norwegian politician was telling the truth about 2012 or he said that many things will start to happen in 2008 and 2009 ....
The Planned World War 3 - A Play in Numerous Acts
World War Three in Brief
A Three World War scenario was developed several decades ago Two World Wars have already been achieved, and the Third and final World War envisions an attack on Iraq, Iran and/or Syria as being the trigger to set the entire Middle East into fiery conflagration. Once America is firmly entrenched into the Middle East with the majority of her first-line units and This will usher in the start of World War Three.
we are already on the brink of it
World War 3 Timeline all happening right now
Act 3 - west and East -- "Hair-raising nuclear confrontation that threatens mankind's existence" -
Act 4 - Erosion of Confidence in 'The System' so severe citizens will be panicked into giving up liberties and Constitutional form of government. The plan calls for the dissolution of the US Constitution, triggered by a significant enough 'terrorist' attack. The ultimate intent is to introduce a global government and one-world religion.
Act 5 - The collapse of the US, and other Western economies and morals.
Act 6 - Significant population reduction using natural and man-made disasters.
Curtain. Who can tell how this war will end?
keep the population bz in sports ( China OL 2008 ) then in september KABOOOOM !!!
Anonymous Coward User ID: 486272 8/20/2008 10:50 AM
Utopian visions of democracy only leads to dictatorships in the end...
Quoting: Anonymous Coward 486272
YOU HAVE IT WRONG! LET ME FIX IT.
"Utopian visions of communism only leads to dictatorships in the end..."
WE ALL KNOW WHAT IS RUSSIAN COMMUNISM, DON'T WE?
From his Audacity of Hope; "Hi, I'm Barack Hussein Obama" "I will stand with the Muslims should the political winds shift in an ugly direction."
~ BARACK HUSSEIN OBAMA, FROM DREAMS OF MY FATHER: STORY OF RACE & INHERITANCE “OUR RAGE AT WHITE WORLD NEEDED NO OBJECT,
... IT COULD BE SWITCHED ON AND OFF AT OUR PLEASURE.”
___________________________
There is no thing endowed with life - from man, who is enslaving the elements, to the nimblest creature - in all this world that does not sway in its turn. Whenever action is born from force, though it be infinitesimal, the cosmic balance is upset and the universal motion results.
Anonymous Coward User ID: 486272 8/20/2008 11:07 AM
Democracies can be communists. They are not contradictory positions. But democracies follow the will of the people, which, when manipulated, is whatever the dictator makes out of it.
Democracies can be communists. They are not contradictory positions. But democracies follow the will of the people, which, when manipulated, is whatever the dictator makes out of it.
Quoting: Anonymous Coward 486272
LIKE THOSE TWO?
From his Audacity of Hope; "Hi, I'm Barack Hussein Obama" "I will stand with the Muslims should the political winds shift in an ugly direction."
~ BARACK HUSSEIN OBAMA, FROM DREAMS OF MY FATHER: STORY OF RACE & INHERITANCE “OUR RAGE AT WHITE WORLD NEEDED NO OBJECT,
... IT COULD BE SWITCHED ON AND OFF AT OUR PLEASURE.”
___________________________
There is no thing endowed with life - from man, who is enslaving the elements, to the nimblest creature - in all this world that does not sway in its turn. Whenever action is born from force, though it be infinitesimal, the cosmic balance is upset and the universal motion results.
Anonymous Coward User ID: 459297 8/20/2008 11:11 AM
Putin's role in the blatantly misleading information issued by the government about the Chechnya offensive also has been criticized. His talent for creating legends has been evident in his explanations about the war. For example, Putin told the writers group that the military had been open with the news media, when the military has in fact hidden information about casualties, combat events, attacks on civilians and its goals and methods.
Felix Svetov, a writer who spent time in Stalin's prison camps as a child and who lost his father in the purges, was present at the writers meeting. He said Putin's comment "does not correspond with reality." Putin is a typical KGB type, he added. "If the snow is falling, they will calmly tell you, the sun is shining."
Do you know what the Chechen's based their push on for a Democratic Chechena? Do you know what movie inspired them to demand that their country be Free from Russia and Russian control?
Do you know what Western Movie All Chechen's carried with them in their back packs when they fought the Russians in Chechen War?
An what movie is BANNED in Russia because of its effect on the Chechens?????? What film they call subversive and Anti-Russian according to Tsar Putin??
This is the movie that Inspired Chechens to fight for their Freedom against overwhelming odds.. This is the real life man that inspired them..
Scottish
English
American
Georgian
Poland
The Baltic States..
and countless countless countries we all have our Historical Patriots. Patriots that had ONE word on their mind..
One word that TERRORFIES Russia
FREEDOM!!! "In a time of deceit telling the truth is revolutionary act." - George Orwell
Anonymous Coward User ID: 459297 8/20/2008 3:33 PM
Russian general: 'We are not pulling out' of Georgia
Russia plans to establish checkpoints inside Georgia. Establishing the positions seemingly would violate the terms of the cease-fire deal both countries signed.
By Sergei Loiko and Borzou Daragahi
Los Angeles Times Staff Writers
11:43 AM PDT, August 20, 2008
MOSCOW -- A ranking Russian military official today said Moscow plans to establish 18 long-term checkpoints inside Georgian territory, including at least eight within undisputed Georgian territory outside the pro-Russian enclave of South Ossetia.
The checkpoints will be staffed by hundreds of Russian troops, with those in Georgia proper needing supplies that would be ferried to them from South Ossetia.
If implemented, the plan would effectively put under Russian control the border between Georgia and its South Ossetia region, which is seeking independence with Moscow's backing, as well as a small chunk of Georgia proper.
"This is the essence of it," Col. Gen. Anatoly Nogovitsyn, deputy chief of the army general staff, told reporters at a briefing. He showed maps detailing the proposed Russian positions, one just outside the key city of Gori.
"The president ordered us to stop where we were," he said. "We are not pulling out and pulling back troops behind this administrative border into the territory of South Ossetia."
The plans appear to violate the terms of a French-endorsed cease-fire deal signed late last week by the presidents of Georgia and Russia. It called for both countries' troops and allied armed groups to move back to their positions before hostilities between the two countries' troops led to a Russian military incursion early this month into the staunchly pro-U.S. Caucasus Mountain nation.
Russian officials insist they may keep troops along the South Ossetian-Georgian border as well as within Georgia proper as part of a peacekeeping mission begun in the 1990s. Russians say their peacekeeping mandate gives them access to a "security zone" along the border.
Nogovitsyn also said at least 64 Russian soldiers were killed and 323 injured in the fighting. Russians were outraged by what they called an unprovoked surprise attack by Georgians on Russian peacekeepers based in the breakaway region and on South Ossetia civilians. Georgians have accused Moscow of provoking the fight as a pretext for sending troops into Georgian territory.
Officials in Georgia, the U.S. and Europe have demanded Russia pull its troops back to positions held before the current fighting broke out Aug. 7.
President Bush reiterated that message today during a speech before the Veterans of Foreign Wars national convention in Orlando, Fla., calling for Russian troops to pull back and defending Georgia's claim to South Ossetia and another breakaway region.
Rice and other officials from NATO nations who met Tuesday in Brussels "agreed that Russia must honor its commitment to withdraw its troops from Georgia and to return to the status quo before the hostilities began on August the 6th," he said, adding: "South Ossetia and Abkhazia are part of Georgia, and the United States will work with our allies to ensure Georgia's independence and territorial integrity."
In Moscow, Nogovitsyn said "time will tell" when Russians would pull troops out of areas they control in Georgia proper, including the key city of Gori, which lies along a crucial juncture of the country's main east-west highway. He called the proposed new checkpoints "observation posts."
Georgian officials voiced outrage over the continued Russian presence.
"Over the last seven days they've promised three times to leave, but they've yet to fulfill their promises," said Alexander Lomaie, Georgia's national security advisor, during an interview in downtown Gori.
"We're here and we haven't seen any sign of them pulling out," he said. "There is the same number of checkpoints and the same severe rules for entering and exiting."
The U.S. military officials today flew in five planes loaded with relief supplies, news agencies reported. They are also attempting to dispatch several military vessels from the Mediterranean to Georgia's Black Sea coast with additional aid.
daragahi@latimes.com
Loiko reported from Moscow and Daragahi from Gori. "In a time of deceit telling the truth is revolutionary act." - George Orwell
The Mongols was just another name of ancient Russian army: Historical Documents and Evidence Supports This.
The Mongols was just another name of ancient Russian army
According to the official version of history, Russia remained under the political and military yoke of the Mongols for many centuries on end.
CLICK ON AMAZON LINK!
The term "Mongol" is usually assumed to have always meant the same thing - however, this turns out to be incorrect; the modern interpretation is of a relatively recent origin. Bear in mind that Mongolia didn't exist as an independent state until the early 20th century! The word "Mongol" simply meant "Great One" - its association with the nomadic tribes hailing from the steppes north of China is a later invention. But why did it have to be invented?
The reason is simple - the actual "Mongol conquerors of Russia" never existed. The yoke theory was created by the court historians of the new Russian dynasty - the Romanovs. It has served the end of justifying the Romanovs' claims for the throne and demonising their longtime adversaries - the Horde, or the professional Russian army, which remained fiercely loyal to the old Russian dynasty, deposed and finally destroyed by the Romanovs as a result of a conspiracy. The savage invaders and torturers of the Russian land that we read about in history textbooks were the protectors of the state in reality - and ethnic Slavs for the most part. Small wonder historians still cannot find a single trace of the mythical Mongol capital - no such capital ever existed anywhere near the Gobi Desert.
The Mongol Horde identified as the Russian army are extremely hard to swallow for any Russian - yet they are just the tip of the iceberg called New Chronology, which is a radical reconstruction of world history in general and a brainchild of Anatoly Fomenko, one of today's leading mathematicians and by all means a scientist to be taken seriously. His sensational fundamental work entitled: "History: Fiction or Science?" is finally available in English - the ice cold facts and the rock hard scientific evidence concealed underneath that glossy cover portraying Jesus pinioned to the Big Ben can, and eventually will, sink the entire paper fleet of consensual history.
How many historical documents are counterfeit?
We shall never know just how many historical documents are in fact counterfeit. History in general goes hand in hand with the history of forgeries; countless chronicles as well as works of art and literature have been considered authentic for centuries before becoming denounced as counterfeit. A presumed fragment of Cicero's "De Consolatione" discovered by the famous humanist scholar Sigonius only became identified as a work of the latter two centuries after the death of the author -- we would probably still believe in Cicero's authorship of said fragment if it hadn't been for the discovery of Sigonius' written confession.
Similar examples are rather abundant -- the "Thespian poet Lucius Varus" who turned out to be a 18th century Dutch scientist by the name of Heerkens plagiarizing from the 16th century Venetian author Corrario, the German "translation" of a Phoenician history tractate by a student named Wagenfeld in the 19th century, "classical" texts sold to the Leipzig library by a certain Schennis in the 1920's and so forth. Think of just how many remain undiscovered -- after all, the larger part of the iceberg always remains underwater.
However, there may be an equal amount of valid historical documents in existence that were declared forgeries due to their being at odds with the official history. Anatoly Fomenko, the prominent mathematician, was the first to apply natural scientific methods to historical data, coming up with a revolutionary theory which implies a radical revision of history as we know it. This theory finally explains such historical oddities as the existence of Christian tabernacles in the pagan town of Pompeii and the Ottoman Turks referred to as "Persians" in mediaeval documents. It is rendered in Fomenko's fundamental work entitled: "History: Fiction or Science" which is finally out in English. "Sensational" is a very mild term -- this book is heretical, controversial and clearly subversive -- but even the most uncanny ideas it contains are all backed up by statistics, astronomy, and brilliant logic. Fomenko's book may infuriate you since it contradicts everything you were taught in school, but once you're through with it, your view of history shall never be the same again! "In a time of deceit telling the truth is revolutionary act." - George Orwell
Anonymous Coward User ID: 486826 8/20/2008 5:15 PM
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